Naruto Thread XII: This really has to be the final Naruto thread, right?
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wow that was really boring to read
Yeah. No part of the actual choreography of the fight was interesting. Compare that with Luffy vs. just about anyone and its a snoozefest. Hell, Kaido's page and a half of a fight in 996 was more interesting.
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I’m just excited for Kishimoto to come back. Toriyama’s involvement with Super has really created a compelling work of art — I’d love to understand how Kishimoto thinks of this world he created.
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To be honest I won't put too much expectations on that considering his involvement wasn't minor in the first place
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I’m just excited for Kishimoto to come back. Toriyama’s involvement with Super has really created a compelling work of art — I’d love to understand how Kishimoto thinks of this world he created.
Going to strongly disagree both with Dragon Ball Super that i will not talk more about since this is not the thread for it and Naruto. Kishimoto's track record ever since the first part of Naruto ended has been very poor. It was a complete mess with the final villain being laughable. Samurai 8 was mediocre and rightfully canned.
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Going to strongly disagree both with Dragon Ball Super that i will not talk more about since this is not the thread for it and Naruto. Kishimoto's track record ever since the first part of Naruto ended has been very poor. It was a complete mess with the final villain being laughable. Samurai 8 was mediocre and rightfully canned.
It’s okay to disagree — people have their own opinions and we don’t have to believe in the same things. Our thoughts on both series come down to personal preference and the level of understanding / subjective interpretations :)
I really loved the final battle of Naruto and enjoyed the series. I’m interested in understanding what kind of story Kishimoto intends to tell through Boruto. That part is unclear to me, as it mostly seems like a rehash — but perhaps experience has matured Kishimoto and he’s thought deeply about what should come next.
And who knows. Maybe a monthly release is better for him.
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Nah Naruto was objectively bad. You can like it but the lack of quality is really not a question of "level of understanding" or subjective interpretation.
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Nah Naruto was objectively bad. You can like it but the lack of quality is really not a question of "level of understanding" or subjective interpretation.
Your personal opinion on the quality of another’s work is the definition of subjectivity. Naruto has literally grossed over $10 billion in revenue — $1.6 billion of that is from sales of the manga alone and more than the X-Men as an entire media franchise. This is an objective measurement. Just because you do not personally connect to the story does not mean that others have not.
At some point, individuals have to realize that their opinions are simply developed through their frame of reference and subjective tastes. I include myself in this; my opinions are not “objective truth” and I’ve never thought of them as such. But they do inform my perspective on the nature of reality itself.
There is nothing “good” or “bad” — only thinking makes it so. I think, therefore I am. Misc wisdom, etc.
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There's no shame in liking bad things or corny things. But objective truths are a thing, and Naruto is objective bad, from betraying the central theme of part one, to the endless Uchiha wank, to make an unbeatable villain to be usurped by a bunny goddess that we had no fucking connection, to sideline every single one of the Konoha 11, to make Naruto ninja Jesus and Sasuke too, to the forced pairings at the end, where only NarutoxHinata and ShikamaruxTemari had any kind one small build up, the the mass murder Obito being called the coolest guy. Yeah, the series was bad.
That said there's nothing that stops you from enjoying it. I enjoyed NnT but I'm aware that the quality went to the shitter at some point of the third arc, subjective opinion can't cloud your objective judgement. -
There's no shame in liking bad things or corny things. But objective truths are a thing, and Naruto is objective bad, from betraying the central theme of part one, to the endless Uchiha wank, to make an unbeatable villain to be usurped by a bunny goddess that we had no fucking connection, to sideline every single one of the Konoha 11, to make Naruto ninja Jesus and Sasuke too, to the forced pairings at the end, where only NarutoxHinata and ShikamaruxTemari had any kind one small build up, the the mass murder Obito being called the coolest guy. Yeah, the series was bad.
That said there's nothing that stops you from enjoying it. I enjoyed NnT but I'm aware that the quality went to the shitter at some point of the third arc, subjective opinion can't cloud your objective judgement.So this is an example of where your frame of reference plays a key role, my friend. Happy to explain this by briefly going into detail, but I'll admit that I haven't reread Naruto and have not done much of the intellectual work necessary to fully understand every decision made by Kishimoto (though I'm sure that others have).
Something to recognize is that it's literally harder to be published in a Jump magazine than it is to get into Harvard. You're dealing with some real intellectual creatives here. Naruto, though a shonen series, was crafted by an adult — so you have to think about how his mindset shifted/matured over a decade of publication.
When you speak of "betraying the central theme of part one," do you mean how "hard work triumphs over destiny"? Very true — though one could argue that Kishimoto is intending to say that EVERYONE who has made it this far in life has a special ancestor that allowed them to get there. Ancestry is a big part of Naruto and truthfully, I haven't analyzed it thoroughly — but there's a message here that I'm not sure most fans have picked up on. Yes, this ties directly into the Senju and Uchiha legacy as well.
The Uchiha are exceptionally important to the series and I'd love to understand what you disliked about their relevance to the plot.
Kaguya is something that could have been predicted in the early days of Naruto, if one was wise enough. Indeed, much of Naruto connects to Japanese mythology and legend. Because you were raised with a Western frame of reference, it makes sense that it came out of left-field for you. I would argue that some in Kishimoto's core audience may disagree.
The Konoha 11 were great side characters, but they do not necessarily need all of the spotlight — they were Naruto's classmates. They had their roles to play, but they were not the central characters of the story. The world of Naruto is much bigger than that and it makes sense that Kishimoto would want to focus on the most gifted in each country (Gaara, Killer B) rather than those who didn't carry the same ambitions of Naruto/Sasuke.
If pairings were important to you at all in the series, that's more indicative of your own subjective preferences. Adolescent love was never the point of the series — rather, adolescent opinions coming into clash with adulthood is a central part of the story.
Obito was a tragic character through and through. But he was a cool guy. That moment of redemption was intended to save his soul. Much of Naruto is about forgiveness, mercy, and redemption — as the final clash taught us.
So everything that you consider to be "objectively bad" can be refuted with a different frame of reference. Hence, Naruto is not "objectively bad" but "subjectively bad (in your opinion) because of your preferences and frame of reference" :)
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I could go on a full discussion but i don't think it would be time well wasted. Specially if we delve in the reference bias.
Ancestry became an important part of Naruto in Part II, before that we had Tsunade that was the granddaughter of Harashima and Kakashi that had a famous father, well Gaara too since his father was a Kage, or if you consider the tagedy of Neiji. But outside those examples, none of the important characters have great ancestors. Part I was very much sheer work can catch up and surpass genius.
By beef with the Uchiha is not their importance to the lore, more too how much overpowered and "perfect" their character were. Like Itachi, a child soldier with PTSD couldn't gone rogue, he only did it because Hanzo blackmailed him. Do I need to bring the "Can you beat Uchiha Marada" meme?
Yes, the tale of Princess Kaguya is one of the most famous japonese folklore, nevertheless it doesn't give you a free pass to substitute the villain you have been crafting and growing for 300+ chapters of another, with the excuse that one of the Zetsus's has always been her pawn, when you have ZERO foreshadowing of that.
Konoha 11 didn't need to have too much spotlight, but it didn't need to be turned irrelevant either. We had a Ninja war that covered more than half of the series, plenty of opportunity to show their growth.
The pairings are completely irrelevant, I just found them weird, like Ino and Sai ever interacted? Same with Chouji and his wife.
Obito is a tragic character in the sense he was a manipulated child soldier both by his nation, and by Madara. Everything else is on him. As much as one of the cores of Naruto is to break the circle of hatred, Obito caused the death of Naruto's parents - which latter caused him to ostracized - and the almost destruction of the village, and orchestrated a world war that almost ended with the doomsday scenario. No matter how much attonemet he done is not enough to call him "the coolest."
So I end this, on an agree to disagree.
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Ancestry became an important part of Naruto in Part II, before that we had Tsunade that was the granddaughter of Harashima and Kakashi that had a famous father, well Gaara too since his father was a Kage, or if you consider the tagedy of Neiji. But outside those examples, none of the important characters have great ancestors. Part I was very much sheer work can catch up and surpass genius.
The ancestry part of Naruto ties directly into Buddhism — Indra and Asura lore specifically. Naruto was special and inherited the will of his ancestors, but it seems like nearly any descendant of Indra/Asura could have inherited the same strength. It seems as though there's a combination of history + Buddhist lore at play here and it likely makes the most sense to those raised in it.
By beef with the Uchiha is not their importance to the lore, more too how much overpowered and "perfect" their character were. Like Itachi, a child soldier with PTSD couldn't gone rogue, he only did it because Hanzo blackmailed him. Do I need to bring the "Can you beat Uchiha Marada" meme?
I loved the writing for all of these characters. Even prior to Sasuke and Itachi's clash in part 2, I always knew that there was more to the story — especially during the first fight in the Valley of the End. Madara remains one of my favorite characters in the entire series.
Yes, the tale of Princess Kaguya is one of the most famous japonese folklore, nevertheless it doesn't give you a free pass to substitute the villain you have been crafting and growing for 300+ chapters of another, with the excuse that one of the Zetsus's has always been her pawn, when you have ZERO foreshadowing of that.
It does make sense, if you understand Japanese lore. Princess Kaguya comes from one of the earliest Japanese texts. The God Tree comes from Buddhism. Zetsu, a plant-man, being connected to them isn't too far of a stretch.
Konoha 11 didn't need to have too much spotlight, but it didn't need to be turned irrelevant either. We had a Ninja war that covered more than half of the series, plenty of opportunity to show their growth.
Probably, but I enjoyed seeing other characters fight. Kishimoto expanded their world and the jutsu available. We witnessed all five Kage fight — as well as their right-hands. The Konoha 11 didn't have the same ambition as those people and it makes sense that their focus decreased, though the anime gave them much more spotlight.
The pairings are completely irrelevant, I just found them weird, like Ino and Sai ever interacted? Same with Chouji and his wife.
Wasn't Ino very attracted to Sai during his first appearance? She was certainly into Sasuke originally, but had no real connection with him. Her being attracted to Sai makes sense.
Chouji probably met Karui after the war and they connected. That's how it works in real life — I actually like that.
Regardless, parings aren't the focus of the series. People who play that game can do so — but I never read Naruto to see "who ends up with who."
Obito is a tragic character in the sense he was a manipulated child soldier both by his nation, and by Madara. Everything else is on him. As much as one of the cores of Naruto is to break the circle of hatred, Obito caused the death of Naruto's parents - which latter caused him to ostracized - and the almost destruction of the village, and orchestrated a world war that almost ended with the doomsday scenario. No matter how much attonemet he done is not enough to call him "the coolest.
Naruto also forgave Pain, who brutally murdered his mentor. Obito was an unfortunate casualty manipulated by the forces leading the world down a dark path. Naruto showing that moment of tenderness to Obito was the way to redeem the character. Obito will still go to hell, but the message of Naruto is forgiveness.
Reread part 2 of Naruto: it largely is about forgoing hatred for forgiveness and this is a common theme that exists in most arcs.
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I admit I did a double take when the 9-Tails mentioned nuclear fusions.
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Your personal opinion on the quality of another’s work is the definition of subjectivity. Naruto has literally grossed over $10 billion in revenue — $1.6 billion of that is from sales of the manga alone and more than the X-Men as an entire media franchise. This is an objective measurement. Just because you do not personally connect to the story does not mean that others have not.
At some point, individuals have to realize that their opinions are simply developed through their frame of reference and subjective tastes. I include myself in this; my opinions are not “objective truth” and I’ve never thought of them as such. But they do inform my perspective on the nature of reality itself.
There is nothing “good” or “bad” — only thinking makes it so. I think, therefore I am. Misc wisdom, etc.
The fact that you brought popularity as a reason why something is good pretty much says that there is not even any point trying to argue with you.
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The fact that you brought popularity as a reason why something is good pretty much says that there is not even any point trying to argue with you.
Sales are an objective measurement of how much a property resonates with an audience. Taste / reviews are subjective. Please tell me how I’m wrong?
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Nah, people who have read Naruto and were long term fans had the same problem with the series near its end.
I'm too lazy to go dig up the old jp twitter threads but favorable opinions are mostly towards team 7 where you know, the main cast gets their shine.
Other parts of the war were hated. when the popular characters were out of the series, no one bothers to pay attention.
Basically, Naruto is a series that banks hard on their popular first half characters carrying the show.But I do agree that in his early years, Kishimoto did have a great artstyle that incorporates a bunch of cultural aspects into a semi-realistic setting.
Which was nice but now it's all over the place because he can't stop wanting to draw tech and robots without understanding why great sci-fi is great sci-fi.
Also, he over-relies too much on the mythology aspect or like, he loves stuff like that but he just inserts it so damn much that it gets really annoying.
Mostly because it is executed in an info-dump way, gonna shove this down your throat right now even if you never heard of it before! way.Just look at samurai 8 with all that tangled history/what-you-call-it that has no place being in a sci-fi setting.
Sure he can do what he wants but come on, this is the same thing as walking into an action movie and then the villain suddenly go hey have you ever heard of our lord and saviour.If you want a good mythology/history/references incorporated into world-building that doesn't read like a 15 year old fever dream take a look at how AoT managed it.
Also getting into Jump is not even the same as getting into harvard, there are shitload of terrible series that gets axe.
The entire system banks on instant/weekly gratification instead of letting series have their time to build up into something great. Look at webtoons, self-motivated manga like Radiant, the greatest stories that have a slow start, etc.
Don't ride on Jump's ability too much. They are great at what they do but what they do are becoming less relevant and more obsolete as time passes.
They dropped AoT, let Chainsaw man fly because of audience receptiveness and the changing times which simply means that yeah they fucked up and an "elite company that hires top of the line talents" do actually fuck up.
A lot more than you actually think.Sales are an objective figure to determine popularity, not quality.
Popularity does not translate to quality.
People don't watch or re watch sitcoms like Friends because Shakespeare inspired writers wrote the show but everyone in America knows about it.
People who are fans of Berserk and Vagabond don't give a ratass about Fairy Tail most popular moments but it still sells.
Fast food is popular but nobody is going to pay Michelin chef prices for a Whopper Jr -
More superb writing.
https://mangaplus.shueisha.co.jp/viewer/1008140 -
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I like seeing Sasuke get stabbed in uncomfortable places.
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Shame, liked this Isshiki fellow. Unlike Kaguya, he actually talked. Even had some manners.
Kind of a ham fisted way to take away from Naruto and Sasuke's power, but I'm kinda enjoying all this. Mostly because I'm not really invested.
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Ah how little I missed Kishimoto's masterful writing
https://mangaplus.shueisha.co.jp/viewer/1008329 -
Ch. 54 response
! Hope this isn't another pumpfake. Please kill him off. I've been waiting for this for a long time. If Isshiki really pulled it off and made Naruto kill himself, he might be top 5 all time.
! I like how almost everyone is prepared to die or kill each other. I thought it'd be this long drawn out plan to get Momo to absorb chakra, but Kawaki attempting to kill himself was great.
! I'm still waiting to see what caused the flashforward moment where there's a rift between Kawaki and Boruto. I thought the last 3 chapters would contain a hint towards it. -
I cant believe this thread is buried 4 pages into the forum section.
! The Nine Tailed Fox died. RIP
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So tailed beasts run on nuclear fuel?
https://mangaplus.shueisha.co.jp/viewer/1008529 -
Naruto was more upset when Obito died, the guy who murdered his pal Neji 20 minutes earlier.
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Kurama killed his mother and father so he might still be feeling some type of way.
Jokes aside hasn’t it already been established that tailed beast can’t truly die?
I've often wondered about that myself; seems like being supported by people who only want you there so the world can end in fire (with you going to Hell in the process) would be somewhat off-putting
3DS Friend Code 0044-2806-5284
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Kurama killed his mother and father so he might still be feeling some type of way.
Jokes aside hasn’t it already been established that tailed beast can’t truly die?
They normally just reform after some years if they’re “killed” since they’re made of chakra.
That still might be the case here, but given the mode they just used at Kurama using his Chakra as fuel for a new energy, it seems like it may be a death that sticks.
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Would be bizarre though to have Kurama of all people die after all this time.
But I guess they mean business.
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Would have preferred if Naruto parted with Kurama in peaceful acceptance. This way it feels like it still needs closure. So I wouldn't bet Kurama isn't coming back in some form. This nuclear fusion thing opened a whole can of worms in a way.
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Do we know where the rest of the biju are? I guess the 8tails is palling around with Killer B, but the rest of characterless monsters and shukaku what did they do?
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So, this was mostly about getting rid of the Rinngan and Kurama. Nice. I finally got what I needed as to why Boruto and Kawaki were at odds in the end. Both are willing to do anything to destroy Karma. After putting their lives on the line here, Kawaki would hate if Boruto wavered in his determination. Sasuke peeped it as Kawaki was talking.
I knew it felt weird during the traitor search in the anime. They kept highlighting Code more than usual compared to his smaller amount of dialogue in the earlier chapters. Now this chapter drops with him on the cover and I was fully prepared for him to be part of it. He kept being annoying about loyalty in the anime and now he's obviously an Isshiki fanboy
Mugino and Victor felt so random in the manga and the anime fixed that. Mugino was done better tho. Ties to Hiruzen are just more effective, he's a legend. He's always picking up stragglers with potential. It's definitely why he struggled to kill Orochimaru. It's like WB and his sons.
Delta and Coda will have to start recruiting more. Kishimoto's obsession with science fiction, mecha, space whatever will keep getting weirder.
Hopefully the other teams get to exist since most of this was about getting rid of Naruto and Sasuke's trump cards and Isshiki. Sumire was mindful of Amado. Maybe he becomes some sort of mentor for her. So far, team 10 is the only one that fully exist in the manga. Team 15 partially lives there through Sumire. Teams 5 is represented by Metal who barely exist. Denki and Iwabe will be easy to transition into the manga. Denki is into that tech shit. Him and Sumire should be key to dealing with the new Otsutsuki tech. Mentally preparing myself for team 25 and team 40 to not appear at all. Hinata's only purpose in Narutto was to give birth to the spinoff. Can't put faith in Kishi
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Did you guys see that the guy who did the animation for the Naruto and Sasuke vs Momoshiki fight also did another awesome anime fight recently? I'll post them both here
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The new character reminds me more of a Jojo character than a Naruto/Boruto one. I like her design, but her powers and motivation and Code's interactions with her are…eh.
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I don't think anyone has brushed their teeth on panel before. I'll have to reread Naruto.
Gaara asking all the great questions and Naruto being naive and vague.
Also, the Byakugan drug might be tied to why Boruto's eye is like that in the flash-forward.
He warns that Hinata and Himawari shouldn't take it and that telegraphs that a Hyuga might take it.
All of this comes after he mentions the death of his daughter. Either Jigen or some Hyuga is connected to the death of his daughter.
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Say, Anyone here like early pre-skip Naruto? Wanna see a 1 hour 45 minute emotionally compelling and satisfying movie version of what is essentially Narutos character arc, which cool action, fun comedy, and kickass animation?
Watch Ne Zha on netflix. Its pretty god damn good.
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Damn, it's not on Netflix Spain (or it seems it's not). Started watching New Gods: Ne Zha Reborn with a friend, but while it's ok we kinda abandoned it midway through. Thought it might be a sequel, but nope! They aren't even made by the same company, they are unrelated.
Same thing happened with the two Yin Yang Master movies that were released on Netflix almost back to back, featuring the same characters…while being wildly different.
Anyways, I'll see if I can find it somewhere else - it looks good.
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Not my cup of tea. Looks like Kung Fu Panda animation.
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Damn, it's not on Netflix Spain (or it seems it's not). Started watching New Gods: Ne Zha Reborn with a friend, but while it's ok we kinda abandoned it midway through. Thought it might be a sequel, but nope! They aren't even made by the same company, they are unrelated.
Same thing happened with the two Yin Yang Master movies that were released on Netflix almost back to back, featuring the same characters…while being wildly different.
Anyways, I'll see if I can find it somewhere else - it looks good.
Yeah, its Canadian/US netflix only unfortunately. I watched it using a VPN; if you're willing to go that route, theres 30 day free trials on most of them.
But yeah, I also saw Nezha Reborn; I liked Ne Zha more overall, it felt more cohesive, but I also found Nezha Reborn pretty fun; it feels kinda super-hero-y with a lead with a thinner arc who is nonetheless a rather likeable dude you end up rooting for, theres some decent emotional beats, and the action is top notch and well choreographed. Theres a late film underwater action scene that almost out-Aquamans Aquaman in terms of one going "Whoah haha what? OMG whoah haha"
In general, after a lifetime of Norse, greek and even japanese mythology I found it fascinating to dive into chinese mythology; sometimes it feels like getting thrown into the deep end, in the same way someone non-versed in norse mythology would go "whats the deal with this hammer, are they assuming I know what that is"
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Oh, so the action gets crazier in Reborn? Cool. That's one thing that kind of bothered me, the action being just ok-ish during the first half. The other one (and I might be alone on this) is that the animation, while beautiful, is a bit too hyper-dynamic at times, specially with you-know-who (you know, that guy that inspired Dragon Ball).
Might give it a second chance.
Not a huge fan of VPNs, to be honest, but I realized there's a ton of martial arts classics on Netflix-not-Spain, so I might give it a go sometime in the future.
Which, btw, if you wanna dwelve on chinese folk legends and the like, there's the absolutely bonkers A Chinese Odyssey duology in there (Pandora's Box and Cinderella) featuring Stephen Chow + a whiplash inducing frantic pace, but there are some "famous" faces from journey to the west in there (which is also a great movie directed by Stephen Chow, Journey to the West: Conquering all Demons, but it's not on Netflix anymore). I say go for them if you have the time (though some parts might have aged awkwardly).
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cool trivia: the guy who made Nezha, Yang Yu or better known by Jiaozi spent more than 2 years and even more years living in poverty writing and rewriting the screenplay for Nezha.
I think everything took up to 6 years, all the while the production was on brakes at various financing pitstops or on the risk of collapsing entirely.
He pretty much quit his appealing pharmacy career to become an animator, proceed to starve and work in worse than average working conditions in order to pour his sweat and tears into Nezha and boy was the return worth it.I mean you get this kind of rags to riches and successful stories once in a while so it's not that a big of a deal but Nezha pretty much destroyed China's box office in terms of what was expected from a chinese animation film.
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Not my cup of tea. Looks like Kung Fu Panda animation.
What is wrong with Kung Fu Panda animation?
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Kung Fu Panda has one of the best action sequences ever animated.
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This is the stuff of legends.
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I got way more problems with Kung Fu Panda's story than I do with the animation.
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Theres definetely vibes of Kung Fu Panda in Ne Zha, like theres piss and fart jokes. But two of those actually made me laugh out loud at their ridiculousness, and theres no referential meta-humor in sight.
Ultimately, despite the piss and fart and snot jokes, what I appreciated most of the film was how sincere it was. By the end I was 100% invested in the happiness of Nezha and his family, but then again, maybe I've become more of a sap to anything related with children nowadays. -
Netflix in Brazil is so weird. It has the sequel but not the original movie for some reason.
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Just a nasty ability. I hope there's no more Borgs and the rest of the squad is filled out by shinobi.
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Nerfruto
I actually like Jigen because he fights like a martial arts artist.
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Nice chapter
! 5 Casually talking about Nishi's capabilities being not enough if something did go wrong. Slandering a Jonin is fun.
! 4 Eida being disgusted by Code latching his mouth onto her
! 3 The Jonin with Sasuke having different opinions on Sasuke. 1 says he's just gonna start trouble, but treats him with respect. The other is head over heels for him and is most likely not paying attention to his mission
! 2 Kawaki taking a concept like Chakra nullification in and applying it right away. He did it in the most ninja way possible.
! 1 Amado and Shikamaru's conversation on the roof was perfectly written. He's still trying to treat him like an outsider because Shikamaru is naturally vigilant and doesn't want Amado to get too comfortable. He is justified. Amado is definitely up to something and is more aware than he is letting on. Start off with the "you can't smoke here" as he is currently doing. Sarcasm from Dhikamaru about being incompetent made me proud as a Shikamaru fan. Amado is still taken aback by Kawaki's connection to Naruto and that shows in the chapter because whatever he's up to is to help not be a burden to Naruto. He's just devoted and that is juxtaposed to Code's Otsutsuki clan worship. Relates back to the theme of the chapter of madness which is what human love can be compared to. -
This past week was my first time seeing the volumes 12 - present's covers. Can't believe i've never seen them til now.
I always questioned when things would settle down and Code would assemble some numbers. Well, there it is. Neo Zetsus lol
