Also, can anyone tell me how long the current editor has been in charge?
I think he joined in early Jan this year, I'm not sure.
Also, can anyone tell me how long the current editor has been in charge?
I think he joined in early Jan this year, I'm not sure.
Is the timeskip really responsible for a quality drop? Or are people just looking for excuses for not liking the latest stuff that much? Seriously, I've seen people in this thread complain that Oda made Big Mom pirates too strong and thus had to make them incompetent to make it possible for the Straw Hats to survive, and other people complain that Oda made the BMP a joke and that the SHs haven't even been scratched this arc (despite them being captured and nearly killed twice; speaks volumes about the way people have been reading the series). I've seen people complain that arcs have been dragging and others saying that they haven't had enough time to properly develop. I've seen people criticise almost everything and its opposite. In the end, it's a matter of taste. Can you tell me in what regards this arc is worse than Thriller Bark? Because that, to me, was boring as hell. Brook was one of the few things I enjoyed in that arc back then. Meanwhile, Totto Land has given us many breaks from typical OP story conventions, twists every now and then, unpredictability, strong thematics, a great menacing but fun villain in Big Mom, character development for Sanji (whatever one thinks of it), badass Jinbe moments, badass Brook moments… I do think things have become stale since Big Mom's failed assassination, but it's been mostly a transition phase into the cake baking climax. If that is given proper focus and made to look great (and if we get a sea battle between the SHP and BMP, please, Oda!) I'll be very satisfied with this arc. I think the quality has been increasing progressively since the timeskip, and I expect great things from Wano as well. It's going to be the culmination of every development we've had for the past 7 years, a great catharsis against what seems to be the most threatening villain so far. And, after that, we'll probably be in the countdown to Raftel and the final war, with the beginning of the collapse of the status quo and all (Shichibukai disbanded, 1 emperor out, maybe Shanks as well, Mama a bit weakened after this arc). Honestly, the way the story is told and paced has changed greatly since Enies Lobby. But that was a really long time ago.
Also, can anyone tell me how long the current editor has been in charge? Because I feel like he may have something to do with how OP is written nowadays. It seems like he's constantly giving interviews and hyping stuff and maybe he tries to speed things up and stimulates all this corner cutting.
Post-TS arcs have a structural problem, are either too short, too long or suffered from Oda putting everything into one arc instead of taking his time like he did pre-TS. Zou was the first exception form that and was a much needed breather, WCI is pretty much another exception since the pacing, as far as i am concerned, is spot-on. Unfortunately, it has other problems that do not need to be discussed at this point before the arc ends though.
Post-TS arcs have a structural problem, are either too short, too long or suffered from Oda putting everything into one arc instead of taking his time like he did pre-TS. Zou was the first exception form that and was a much needed breather, WCI is pretty much another exception since the pacing, as far as i am concerned, is spot-on. Unfortunately, it has other problems that do not need to be discussed at this point before the arc ends though.
Obviously, he's not going to take his time anymore due to taking breaks every 3 weeks. By the time he finished the manga, it would've outlived half of the readers' lives.
Obviously, he's not going to take his time anymore due to taking breaks every 3 weeks. By the time he finished the manga, it would've outlived half of the readers' lives.
Well there's certainly limits on the lower end, imagine if alabasta was 40 chapters instead of 60, I dont hate WCI because of it but certain things like the mirror world and cracker's fight went by really fast and could have added another chapter or 2 total
I strongly believe that Big Mom's power and the gap between her strength and Luffy's could have been portrayed without having to unleash a direct confrontation. Instead, Big Mom's crew has been forced to look weaker than, perhaps, they should be, as an Emperor's crew, for the sole purpose of having the Straw Hats to survive.
How do you think it could have been done better, while considering Luffy's personality?
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Is the timeskip really responsible for a quality drop? Or are people just looking for excuses for not liking the latest stuff that much?
I think the pacing may be different. I will admit that re-watching everything, I realized the most hyped I have ever been was when Luffy got gear 2 and fought Blueno. That's about it though, but I can understand since the series is going for so long, it may change slightly but I'm fine with it overall. I am focused on the big picture and story.
Isn't Chopper technically bruce leeing it?
*At this point I'd be happy seeing anyone bruce leeing through anything. :happy:
Bm is now going to Sunny ship.
her ships are alive.
???
She will givew life to Sunny. But it won't listen to her and help luffy and co because it's their ship. The last nakama was her all along.
And what's the limit to bm's powers? Could she give life to the sea and control it? At least some of it.
Obviously, he's not going to take his time anymore due to taking breaks every 3 weeks. By the time he finished the manga, it would've outlived half of the readers' lives.
The thing is, it still did not take that much less of a time if he used a different approach. Instead it became a clusterfuck that dragged and dragged on, talking about Dressrosa that easily could have been divided into 3 parts, more or less how we got Whiskey Peak and Little Garden in the Alabasta Saga while Drum served as a breather in-between.
And the Alabasta saga itself was "only" 117 chapters and covered that much while Dressrosa alone was 102 chapters, and if you add Punk Hazard to that, well you get the drift.
Make PH a shorter arc that resolves around finding the allies (Kinemon, Momo and Law) and take Caesar with them, make two short arcs before Dressrosa and make Dressrosa itself a pure climax arc like Alabasta was for the most part.
@Chrior, for me the turnaround is the war rather than the time skip. This is where the overcrowded arc and the induced offpanelening syndrom started.
For the moment it doesn’t bother me in this arc as much as in Dressrosa (mostly because of some very great moments of the crew) but i still believe it was not necessary to introduce so many characters again.
I don’t know if there would be a better way to handle it. I guess it is an unavoidable drawback when the serie has become such a monster in term of plot and cast. But i wish Oda would tone down a little. He won’t be able to create bunches of new characters and make the old ones reappear forever if he does not want to worsen this default
Watching Big Mom eat her way through the ground and thinking, if there is any mercy, then the one object on Whole Cake Island that hasn't become animated is her toilet.
@Daz:
I agree with most of your sentiments vis a vis what works and doesn't in the arc; tighter focus, visual splendor, nice moments for underserved characters and occasional formula subverting are among its strengths.
But I also feel that the bolded part is a crucial point, that doesn't really get brought up here. I've been thinking about it myself for a while, and its hard to put into words, but it kinda feels like the Straw Hats themselves can get kinda lost in the storm of characters. Its no surprise given how big the casts have gotten, and the decreased time for character spotlighting fights. 875+ chapters in I wouldn't be surprised if Oda found it harder/les interesting to write stuff for the same 10 characters; Much easier and more fun to spend time with totally new ones, who can serve whatever function Oda needs- especially when Oda has a preference for character creation over story.
This is further accentuated by the fact that Luffy doesn't suffer the same. The focus on him is constant, resulting in the SH, the charachters we're supposed to care the most for, who among a cast which has always been large and eterogeneous were selected to pursue their dreams alongside the protagonist, being now just some faces that we see from time to time around him, sharing the same limelight time as some other throw-away fan-favourite of the year.
Their personalities and unique quirks and even abiliets have been significantly simplified and "flattened" in the process (just think of pre-ts and post-ts Usopp battles, I think it's the most blatant example,along with chopper's overall butchered charachterization).
Naruto went in the exact same direction in it's second half, and I hope someone remember how it was received around here for that…
Prefering charachter creation over story is something i'm completely fine with. I mean, my favourite series is Jojo's, which is basically JUST THAT. But the foremost priority should be nonetheless putting charachters we know and love in different and increasingly challenging situations over time, and watching them adapt to overcome them (or not) based on their unique skillset and past experience.
Instead we are getting opponents that are just increasingly strong fighters, for reasons that stopped making sense quite a while ago, and that are beaten by just hitting them really hard, and a plethora of temporary sidekicks whose name i struggle to remember (like the bunny-furry i keep seeing around lately).
You know a story is going downhill when its author & editors are hyping every new arcs to keep the attention of the readers: "g-guys the next arc is going to be awesome the story is boring right now but it's going to be crazy soon stay with me!!" "g-guys the arc is reaching its climax it's going to be awesome from here I promise you!!" "g-guys we are entering a new story-arc that will dwarf everything made before!!"
There was a time when one piece wasn't just a cash cow but a well written story with proper characters.
You know a story is going downhill when its author & editors are hyping every new arcs to keep the attention of the readers: "g-guys the next arc is going to be awesome the story is boring right now but it's going to be crazy soon stay with me!!" "g-guys the arc is reaching its climax it's going to be awesome from here I promise you!!" "g-guys we are entering a new story-arc that will dwarf everything made before!!"
There was a time when one piece wasn't just a cash cow but a well written story with proper characters.
That would be the case if it wasn't a manga that sells almost 3 million units per volume.
No need to get desperate for hype when there still a lot of interest.
@Chrior, for me the turnaround is the war rather than the time skip. This is where the overcrowded arc and the induced offpanelening syndrom started.
For the moment it doesn’t bother me in this arc as much as in Dressrosa (mostly because of some very great moments of the crew) but i still believe it was not necessary to introduce so many characters again.
I don’t know if there would be a better way to handle it. I guess it is an unavoidable drawback when the serie has become such a monster in term of plot and cast. But i wish Oda would tone down a little. He won’t be able to create bunches of new characters and make the old ones reappear forever if he does not want to worsen this default
See, I can completely agree with this criticism. It's perfectly reasonable and verifiable by just analysing the way the story has been developing since Marineford, like you said. Hell, I'd say this overcrowding began in Sabaody with the Supernova introduction, although it wasn't as noticeable back then, because that arc was just very well thought out and the 'novas were a last minute side dish added to it. But all those things worked so well back then with the fans (and you could see the tremendous increase in sales and all) that Oda may have felt like he could just keep doing it again and again and people wouldn't be tired. Well, Dressrosa was the result of that. Although when by the end we understand that all those side characters were actually being built up to become the Straw Hat Grand Fleet, it's understandable that they took so much spotlight. Did Usopp or Franky not get great moments in DR? Have Nami or Brook or Jinbe not had great moments in Totto Land? Oda has created a monster huge plot and an even more monstrous cast, and the solution he found to keep giving the Straw Hats nice moments was by separating them, which I think has worked for some of them. Chopper and Robin have gotten the short end of the stick, though. Which is a big shame, because they were favourites of mine before the timeskip. Funny enough, the two fought together in Thriller Bark and it was one of the most underwhelming parts of that story. I think that arc was the turning point in terms of characterization of both, as well as Sanji. Although Oda felt that it was now time to make up to Sanji fans for these years of neglect.
I totally agree though that if Oda had stuck to his original plan of making Green Bit its own arc, with further build up to Dressrosa, increasing the size of the alliance, and then have DR be the climatic arc, like Alabasta after Whiskey Peak and Little Garden, it would have been much less tiring and more effective. And cut some fat from Punk Hazard. The cast was small there, yet it dragged too much as well. It could have been done in 35 chapters instead of the 46 we ended up having. The whole saga could have had the same length, but distributed differently between the arcs and subplots of each arc. Having 2 princesses in the same island didn't help either. Although Viola and Rebecca played very different roles, it ended up becoming too much and cluttered the arc even more (one was the adult who sacrificed her happiness to join the enemy, spy from within and look for a chance to counter, which could have been explored further and made her into a great character; the other was a little girl who was made orphan and then enslaved and forced to defend herself while her father watched over her as toy, also looking for a moment to strike back; could have been great too if Rebecca didn't cry and ask for help half the time she was on panel!) Untimately, I think the biggest problems with fan perception about post-TS stuff have to do with 2 things: Fishman Island being hyped to hell for years and not living up to that; Dressrosa being a bloated looooong mess that tired people out. I do think the fundamentals of good storytelling have definitely been there, though, and the different kind of storytelling of Zou and Totto Land has certainly been a very welcome departure from OP's comfort zone and I've been very satisfied with their performances. As long as the cake baking climax and conclusion to this arc are exciting and well done, it will be one of my top arcs in this series. For very different reasons than usual, since the emotional core of it was nowhere near the typical. But it's been just really fun.
@Neo:
How do you think it could have been done better, while considering Luffy's personality?
There are many ways things could have turned out.* Luffy's personality could have been intelligently canalized by the presence of people such as Nami, Chopper, Pedro, and of course Jinbei who has already managed to put sense into his mind at times where situations were far more critical.
Luffy could even "have a go" with Big Mom once the ceremony turned to chaos, and Oda could have found other ways to make them escape without having the entire enemy crew face them. Maybe it would have implied a smarter plan; maybe the bomb could have been used better as a save-card. With the amount of different actors (CP0, Capone, Sun Pirates, non-obedient Big Mom pirates), I believe all of this could have been avoided if planned more carefully, and probably designed to be a discrete infiltration arc. Contrary to what was announced as being part of the plan on Zou, this was all but a discrete infiltration.
Other than that, Luffy could have had a less important role in the arc. I'm not sure fans would be upset if he wasn't the center of everything every time.
There are many ways things could have turned out.*: For example. Why have Sanji fight Luffy? What was the purpose of the whole thing? For instance, Usopp fighting Luffy on Water Seven was perfectly justified and turned out as a really emotional battle. But that Sanji v. Luffy? Not only Luffy "doesn't wait there" for Sanji to come back; he eventually gets captured, but it just… doesn't seem necessary. Sanji and Luffy have forgotten about it already, which makes sense considering all the things they went through.
Why have Luffy fight Cracker in the way that he did? For hours on end. What if the Straw Hats had combined forces to get rid of him faster and without alerting the entire Island (about that, they should have listened to Pedro and never have met Pudding. The plot twist would have worked just fine even if Sanji was the only one fooled). The whole part in the Seducing Woods could be kept; it was entertaining and original, if only it stayed within the seducing woods. Use Pedro as a way to avoid anyone alerting Big Mom, or use other clever ways to do so so that Luffy bursting out at the ceremony is a surprise.
Or make Capone capture Luffy and fake his death; after all, a recurrent theme of the arc is illusion.
Etc., etc. Not saying that the whole arc was bad (I found Sanji phenomenal, if not for the part where he beats up Luffy -- even though I can kind of get that too), or that I would have done it better, but those are just ideas.
You know a story is going downhill when its author & editors are hyping every new arcs to keep the attention of the readers: "g-guys the next arc is going to be awesome the story is boring right now but it's going to be crazy soon stay with me!!" "g-guys the arc is reaching its climax it's going to be awesome from here I promise you!!" "g-guys we are entering a new story-arc that will dwarf everything made before!!"
There was a time when one piece wasn't just a cash cow but a well written story with proper characters.
The Japanese appear to be liking it just fine. Sales are consistent.
Doubt our opinion matters. Most of us don't even pay for it.
You know a story is going downhill when its author & editors are hyping every new arcs to keep the attention of the readers: "g-guys the next arc is going to be awesome the story is boring right now but it's going to be crazy soon stay with me!!" "g-guys the arc is reaching its climax it's going to be awesome from here I promise you!!" "g-guys we are entering a new story-arc that will dwarf everything made before!!"
There was a time when one piece wasn't just a cash cow but a well written story with proper characters.
They are answering questions in interviews, Oda hyped other arcs, just because you started reading One Piece yesterday it doesn't make your bullshit argument true.
One Piece has been a cash cow for 15 years+ I'm assuming you were also not reading it when it wasn't a cash cow.
Not quite true, since Dressrosa, the sales more or less dropped by 10%.
Not quite true, since Dressrosa, the sales more or less dropped by 10%.
Really? Where did you get that information?
If it's true, Oda might realize that things went wrong. It feels like a paradox, because I'm all for him doing what he wants with the manga. But with arcs like DR and WCI, it seems like he wanted to give the fans what they wanted, but it turned against him.
Sales for the One Piece manga have always fluctuated.
2008: 5,956,540
2009: 14,721,241
2010: 32,343,809
2011: 37,995,373
2012: 23,464,866
2013: 18,151,599
2014: 11,884,947
2015: 14,102,521
2016: 12,314,326
Even after the Marineford boom you have differences between 2013-2014.
If the trend were to actually continue for multiple years, then there would be a case for the story affecting sales. Or it would just be a case of oversaturation.
Really? Where did you get that information?
If it's true, Oda might realize that things went wrong. It feels like a paradox, because I'm all for him doing what he wants with the manga. But with arcs like DR and WCI, it seems like he wanted to give the fans what they wanted, but it turned against him.
Look at the oricon sales each year. You have to disregard the overall sales 2011-2013 since that was the time Marineford happened in the anime and new readers started buying the volumes, but you can look at the sales per volume.
New volumes reached 3,3 million sales per volume in the year it was published, except maybe the latest one, now they have a hard time reaching 3 million which approximately translates to a drop of 10%.
I do not want to therotize why this is happening but well, just wanted to reply to statement that the sales are steady.
My guess is some of the readers that were attracted through Marineford jumped ship again.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
@Galaxy:
Sales for the One Piece manga have always fluctuated.
2008: 5,956,540
2009: 14,721,241
2010: 32,343,809
2011: 37,995,373
2012: 23,464,866
2013: 18,151,599
2014: 11,884,947
2015: 14,102,521
2016: 12,314,326Even after the Marineford boom you have differences between 2013-2014.
If the trend were to actually continue for multiple years, then there would be a case for the story affecting sales. Or it would just be a case of oversaturation.
2013 is still a result of MF boom if you look at the individual volume sales in that year and 2014 only happened because only 3 volumes were published in the span of time that was eligible for the oricon sales for 2014. 2015 and 16 show the trend.
Look at the oricon sales each year. You have to disregard the overall sales 2011-2013 since that was the time Marineford happened in the anime and new readers started buying the volumes, but you can look at the sales per volume.
New volumes reached 3,3 million sales per volume in the year it was published, except maybe the latest one, now they have a hard time reaching 3 million which approximately translates to a drop of 10%.I do not want to therotize why this is happening but well, just wanted to reply to statement that the sales are steady.
My guess is some of the readers that were attracted through Marineford jumped ship again.–- Update From New Post Merge ---
2013 is still a result of MF boom if you look at the individual volume sales in that year and 2014 only happened because only 3 volumes were published in the span of time that was eligible for the oricon sales for 2014. 2015 and 16 show the trend.
A difference in sales between 2 years does not make a trend.
You might have a point if the 2017 sales continue to go lower. That's when it becomes a trend.
@Galaxy:
A difference in sales between 2 years does not make a trend.
You might have a point if the 2017 sales continue to go lower. That's when it becomes a trend.
If you have OP selling easily more than 3 million copies per volume in the publishing year for 6 years or more and it drops by 10% for 3 consecutive years, then you have a trend.
It should also be mentioned that we don't get digital sales numbers, which are significant.
This is further accentuated by the fact that Luffy doesn't suffer the same. The focus on him is constant, resulting in the SH, the charachters we're supposed to care the most for, who among a cast which has always been large and eterogeneous were selected to pursue their dreams alongside the protagonist, being now just some faces that we see from time to time around him, sharing the same limelight time as some other throw-away fan-favourite of the year.
Their personalities and unique quirks and even abiliets have been significantly simplified and "flattened" in the process (just think of pre-ts and post-ts Usopp battles, I think it's the most blatant example,along with chopper's overall butchered charachterization).
Having other characters than the main one who share the focus was indeed a forte of One Piece which in the Neketsu genre is really rare. But yes that part has decreased unfortunately but I would not say Usopp is the one who suffer from it the most. After all I always felt he had Oda’s favor compare to some other crew members. He almost always has an importnat role in the arc. Whereas like Chrior said Robin and Chopper have long been forgotten. Also even if Brook is highlighted this arc, most of them (beside the poneglyph stealing) are just nice quotes. Still it’s better than nothing
For sales numbers, the oricon figure can be found on this site for jump series
I was reading chapters 875 and 876 a second time for several reasons: I wanted to check out the way Brook was fighting and also try to measure the distance between Big Mom and the crew, and the way Chopper and Brook arrived on the ship. I wasn't sure about the timeline either so I had to clear some things up in my mind.
That's when something struck me, regarding Chopper, Brook, Perospero and Katakuri.
!
Perospero and Katakuri are waiting for Big Mom.
!
Perospero proposes to let "just the two of them" go.
However, we all know how well the surrounding seas are guarded. There should be no problem detecting a submarine, and capturing it. Of course, Chopper and Brook have no intention of running away: they engage fight on the boat.
What many have pointed out is that, strangely enough, Katakuri and Perospero do not lay a hand on either Chopper or Brook. But what if their plan is to use these two "weird creatures" (Big Mom loved Brook and would probably love a cute talking reindeer) as a way of calming down their captain?
@Chrior I believe your analysis is spot on. I hope that Oda learned his lesson from Dressrosa and all the various things that went wrong. So far, Zou and WCI have been a breath of fresh air, and Wano's being hyped a whole lot. I suspect that he'll try to take a different approach to Wano, particularly with the possible sea battle that he mentioned in an interview.
The unfortunate reality is that with so many characters having been introduced over the years, it's getting much harder to balance them out, and let certain members of the crew shine like they did pre-TS. That's one of the main problems with the series after the TS - with the influx of more and more side characters, certain members of the cast have been shafted aside. Oda has clearly recognized that problem, with Sanji, Nami, and Brook being thrown into the spotlight this arc, but there's still a ways to go.
Obviously, the TS was still much better done than, say, that of Naruto, since the crew got to show off their growth (more ways than one ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)) in Fishman Island. But particularly as I've mentioned with Wano rapidly approaching, and such a large number of characters that could be involved, I'm careful to make judgments as to whether this will be improved upon, or continue to be a flaw.
I think it was natural for sales to have fallen during Dressrosa. The arc was one of the most torturous to read chapter by chapter. As it came to an end with big reveals and hype on the horizon, along with an excellent mini-arc in Zou, it perked up. And then down again. We'll only be able to notice real patterns in drops/increases in sales once the 2017 figures come out.
It's much better to read One Piece in bulk.
It's much better to read One Piece in bulk.
I seriously have to try to do this someday. But I don't have the guts to just stop reading weekly, it's become such an established habit. Especially now that I'm subscribed to Viz's Weekly Shonen Jump.
See, I can completely agree with this criticism. It's perfectly reasonable and verifiable by just analysing the way the story has been developing since Marineford, like you said. Hell, I'd say this overcrowding began in Sabaody with the Supernova introduction, although it wasn't as noticeable back then, because that arc was just very well thought out and the 'novas were a last minute side dish added to it. But all those things worked so well back then with the fans (and you could see the tremendous increase in sales and all) that Oda may have felt like he could just keep doing it again and again and people wouldn't be tired. Well, Dressrosa was the result of that. Although when by the end we understand that all those side characters were actually being built up to become the Straw Hat Grand Fleet, it's understandable that they took so much spotlight. Did Usopp or Franky not get great moments in DR? Have Nami or Brook or Jinbe not had great moments in Totto Land? Oda has created a monster huge plot and an even more monstrous cast, and the solution he found to keep giving the Straw Hats nice moments was by separating them, which I think has worked for some of them. Chopper and Robin have gotten the short end of the stick, though. Which is a big shame, because they were favourites of mine before the timeskip. Funny enough, the two fought together in Thriller Bark and it was one of the most underwhelming parts of that story. I think that arc was the turning point in terms of characterization of both, as well as Sanji. Although Oda felt that it was now time to make up to Sanji fans for these years of neglect.
I totally agree though that if Oda had stuck to his original plan of making Green Bit its own arc, with further build up to Dressrosa, increasing the size of the alliance, and then have DR be the climatic arc, like Alabasta after Whiskey Peak and Little Garden, it would have been much less tiring and more effective. And cut some fat from Punk Hazard. The cast was small there, yet it dragged too much as well. It could have been done in 35 chapters instead of the 46 we ended up having. The whole saga could have had the same length, but distributed differently between the arcs and subplots of each arc. Having 2 princesses in the same island didn't help either. Although Viola and Rebecca played very different roles, it ended up becoming too much and cluttered the arc even more (one was the adult who sacrificed her happiness to join the enemy, spy from within and look for a chance to counter, which could have been explored further and made her into a great character; the other was a little girl who was made orphan and then enslaved and forced to defend herself while her father watched over her as toy, also looking for a moment to strike back; could have been great too if Rebecca didn't cry and ask for help half the time she was on panel!) Untimately, I think the biggest problems with fan perception about post-TS stuff have to do with 2 things: Fishman Island being hyped to hell for years and not living up to that; Dressrosa being a bloated looooong mess that tired people out. I do think the fundamentals of good storytelling have definitely been there, though, and the different kind of storytelling of Zou and Totto Land has certainly been a very welcome departure from OP's comfort zone and I've been very satisfied with their performances. As long as the cake baking climax and conclusion to this arc are exciting and well done, it will be one of my top arcs in this series. For very different reasons than usual, since the emotional core of it was nowhere near the typical. But it's been just really fun.
Why wouldn´t he think that? The arguably worst arc up to this date, Marineford, which was overcrowded as well (granted, it´s the nature of a battle) really started the era of One Piece´s dominion over other series and was incredibly well received. It´s quite natural for him to think that.
The problem was that while Oda introduced the grand fleet, he let another side character that temporarily functioned as protagonist be already in the midst of things, so that these side characters were overshadowed. Like previously mentioned, if he had separated the colosseum from Dressrosa, basically do a sub island kind of thing that is similar to Jaya, only that it´s a island that serves as focus for gladiators, secretly being controlled by DD to acquire victims for toys, these characters would not have felt that insignificant. While Law was dealing with DD and Fujitora, Luffy was having fun with Ucy, witnessed some guy with a jacket fruit and went through Cavendish shenanigans. Even Sabo´s reintroduction, a really big moment, felt kind of insignificant.
And like you mentioned, Greenbit is just another case. He basically gave up an entire island that looked pretty interesting and would have served as a breather between Punk Hazard and Dressrosa, similarly to Drum, that also could have tied into DD after some fun chapters.
Instead you get 3-4 chapters on that island and it´s not relevant ever again.
For that most part, the problem is not what Oda does (besides a few exceptions like Rebecca, the tontatta being that gullible, the girl with the vacuum cleaner and everything regarding DD´s clone come to mind) but how he constructed the arc.
I do not think Fishman Island is as bad as people make it out to be. Sure, it had the disappointing villains (that rationally still work within the context of the arc) and some other either redundant or ridiculous components but for me at least, it still triggered and emotional response, something i have missed after that, except Law´s flashback with Corazon that was really well done. Even the forced drama with Sanji leaves me cold, simply because we have already seen the same thing much more effectively.
Zou was a really nice surprise and i like the general setup of WCI as well (i dislike some other things), so hopefully Oda sticks to that.
Having other characters than the main one who share the focus was indeed a forte of One Piece which in the Neketsu genre is really rare. But yes that part has decreased unfortunately but I would not say Usopp is the one who suffer from it the most. After all I always felt he had Oda’s favor compare to some other crew members. He almost always has an importnat role in the arc. Whereas like Chrior said Robin and Chopper have long been forgotten. Also even if Brook is highlighted this arc, most of them (beside the poneglyph stealing) are just nice quotes. Still it’s better than nothing
Yes, in fact i was refrring to Usop's battles, not his overall relevance which is still pretty decent.
But i still remember his battles with mr. 4 or Perona (edit: and especially Luffy, can't believe i left the best one out)where he had to overcome his own cowardice and limits first, and only then he could "outsmart" much stronger opponents using different items from his veriegated, semi-serious, ever-growing, prank-based arsenal.
Now? Now all he does is shoot seeds of plants that do just what needs to be done in that circumstance. or a giant leaf-wolf tha realease shockwaves from its nose. i still have to get wtf was that about.
And i think i don't need to mention the whole Sugar situation.
See, that's the kind of lazy writing i find most offensive about modern day one piece. it's infuriating because Oda is still perfectly capable of writing engaging and original battles, and i'm talking about the kind of Law, who while having an almost plot-breaking OP fruit ability is still invvolved in fun and dynamic battles which make clever use of its… basically unlimited power so that doesn't count really much as a benchmark. but still.
But our protagonists?
Zoro slices big stuff.
Sanji sets his feet on fire.
Usopp shoots flowers.
Franky changes hairdos and stalls subplots.
Chopper sells merchandise.
Nami was decent this arc, so maybe we can hope it's going to get better. it's hardly the only criticism i have of modern OP, but it's easily the biggest.
Perospero proposes to let "just the two of them" go.
However, we all know how well the surrounding seas are guarded. There should be no problem detecting a submarine, and capturing it. Of course, Chopper and Brook have no intention of running away: they engage fight on the boat.
What many have pointed out is that, strangely enough, Katakuri and Perospero do not lay a hand on either Chopper or Brook. But what if their plan is to use these two "weird creatures" (Big Mom loved Brook and would probably love a cute talking reindeer) as a way of calming down their captain?
I think Perospero wants to let them escape to tell Big Mom that they left with the cake. If Big Mom arrives and all the strawhats are dead, the next in line will be Perospero.
Yes, in fact i was refrring to Usop's battles, not his overall relevance which is still pretty decent.
But i still remember his battles with mr. 4 or Perona where he had to overcome his own cowardice and limits first, and only then he could "outsmart" much stronger opponents. Now? Now all he does is shoot seeds of plants that do just what needs to be done in that circumstance. or giant leaves-wolf tha realease sjhockwaves from their nose. i still have to get wtf was that about.And i think i don't need to mention the whole Sugar situation.
See, that's the kind of lazy writing i find most offensive about modern day one piece. it's infuriating because Oda is still perfectly capable of writing engaging and original battles, and i'm talking about the kind of Law, who while having an almost plot-breaking OP fruit ability is still invvolved in fun and dynamic battles which make clever use of its… basically unlimited power so that doesn't count really much as a benchmark. but still.
But our protagonists?
Zoro slices big stuff.
Sanji sets his feet on fire.
Usopp shoots flowers.
Franky changes hairdos and stalls subplots.
Chopper sells merchandise.Nami was decent this arc, so maybe we can hope it's going to get better. it's hardly the only criticism i have of modern OP, but it's easily the biggest.
Yeah, I think Usopp has been getting shafted. I've been wondering what the hell he did with his old weapons? No more impact dials? No exploding star? No Shuriken star? Now it's just "Oh this is a difficult situation, let me use this very specific plant in my pocket that can do exactly what I need." I hope Usopp gives him and the rest of the Strawhats actual fights in Wano. Especially Sanji, assuming he doesn't get a good one before this arc ends.
The only thing I dislike about this chapter is that Chiffon says after she eats the cake you will be free to go. Like Big Mom will let them escape out of pure generosity. WTF ?! Mind you that might be a translation mistake or me reading too much into those words.
However Sanji ends the chapter saying that they will have to make her faint with the cake so I guess I don't have to worry.
Since this is brought up a number of times in the thread, my beef with the cake stratagem is that it sounds fruitless to begin with.
Before cake: crazy hungry Big Mom is chasing you to the ends of the earth because food disorder. So does her crew.
After cake: level-headed Big Mom is chasing you to the ends of the earth because you ruined her wedding plans, ate her cake, destroyed her castle, broke her cherished Mother portrait, took part in her attempted murder, … So does her crew.
How does the cake change anything? Of course there is going to be more to it, we readers know to expect that, but the characters don't. From their more limited perspective it sounds ridiculous that the Straw Hats are even willing to try it at all. Or they are desperate and will resort to anything, but in this case the Sabaody arc did a much better job at portraying a desperate crew.
Other than that I still enjoyed the past few chapters. Pacing may be slow, but I like that they gave underused Straw Hats their time to shine. Nami + Zeus is awesome Seeing, Chopper and Brooks' bravery is heartwarming, Pudding foaming in the mouth at Sanji's words did feel like a small but long-overdue victory...ANd Big Mom does feel at last like the unstoppable force we were introduced to. I would just appreciate if we'd been given updates on the Firetank pirates & Vinsmokes instead of dragging on the chase sequence. Eventhough I don't quite buy the reasons for it, seeing Sanji save the day thanks to his cooking skills is still going to be a thrilling and innovative resolution to the arc and we may yet get some eye-candy action from the let's-stall-Mama group. I'm looking forward to what comes next.
If you have OP selling easily more than 3 million copies per volume in the publishing year for 6 years or more and it drops by 10% for 3 consecutive years, then you have a trend.
This is only if you include the Marineford boom years and compare them to the past 3 years. This makes no sense to do because it was a massive anomaly in the statistics for the sales of the manga.
I will include 2013 below, only because it was the tail end of the Marineford boom.
2013:
1. One Piece 69 (3,147,224)
2. One Piece 70 (3,039,487)
3. One Piece 71 (2,890,263)
4. One Piece 72 (2,354,005)
2014: (an obvious drop, but see the bottom for the average)
1. One Piece 73 (3,010,801)
2. One Piece 74 (2,834,558)
3. One Piece 75 (2,698,071)
2015: (individual volume sales rose compared to 2014, and the average increased as a result.)
1. One Piece 76 (3,185,018)
2. One Piece 77 (3,020,137)
3. One Piece 78 (2,977,466)
4. One Piece 79 (2,810,583)
2016: (the first drop in individual sales numbers and the average since the Marineford boom ended)
1. One Piece 80 (2,981,494)
2. One Piece 81 (2,696,528)
3. One Piece 82 (2,532,488)
4. One Piece 83 (2,810,583)
From the podcast's 2016 ranking article:
The top selling One Piece volumes in 2016 was 2,624,507, down from an average of 2,847,810 in 2014 and 2,998,301 in 2015.
From the podcast's 2014 ranking article:
The top selling One Piece volumes sold an average of 3,023,316 copies in 2012, 2,847,745 copies in 2013 and an almost-identical 2,847,810 in 2014
If you're analyzing a trend of those three years, it's an increase from 2014-2015, and then a decrease from 2015-2016.
If 2017 continues what 2015-2016 has shown us, then it may actually be a true downward trend outside of the anomaly of the Marineford boom.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
@Sibersk:
It should also be mentioned that we don't get digital sales numbers, which are significant.
Yes, this could be an explanation for the decrease that 2015-2016 had. Shueisha has been pushing their digital platforms much more heavily in the past few years.
Yes, in fact i was refrring to Usop's battles, not his overall relevance which is still pretty decent.
But i still remember his battles with mr. 4 or Perona (edit: and especially Luffy, can't believe i left the best one out)where he had to overcome his own cowardice and limits first, and only then he could "outsmart" much stronger opponents using different items from his veriegated, semi-serious, ever-growing, prank-based arsenal.
Now? Now all he does is shoot seeds of plants that do just what needs to be done in that circumstance. or a giant leaf-wolf tha realease shockwaves from its nose. i still have to get wtf was that about.And i think i don't need to mention the whole Sugar situation.
See, that's the kind of lazy writing i find most offensive about modern day one piece. it's infuriating because Oda is still perfectly capable of writing engaging and original battles, and i'm talking about the kind of Law, who while having an almost plot-breaking OP fruit ability is still invvolved in fun and dynamic battles which make clever use of its… basically unlimited power so that doesn't count really much as a benchmark. but still.
But our protagonists?
Zoro slices big stuff.
Sanji sets his feet on fire.
Usopp shoots flowers.
Franky changes hairdos and stalls subplots.
Chopper sells merchandise.
.
Yes it’s true that the popgreens have decreased a lot of his creativity. It’s quite a shame we have yet to see his usopp hammer again. But with Oda declaration that fights will hardly spend more than one chapter from now I guss we have to get use to Zoro slicing, usopp seed poping, etc.. Though I wouldn’t mind exchanging such chapters against the running away ones which unfortunatly lasts much longer
I don't know what you guys have been reading about Usopp, because in both Punk Hazard and Dressrosa, he barely used Pop Greens, and when he used them, it wasn't for fighting. In PH, he used his modified slingshot to hurl a load of rocks and other stuff to KO Baby 5 and Buffalo and strategically mixed sea stone chains in there and specifically aimed for Caesar, thus capturing him (ok, you can consider the slingshot to be a pop green in itself but the attack wasn't). Meanwhile, in Dressrosa, he created a multiple explosion shot that travelled across half an island and hit Sugar with such precision as to make her faint. But the shot was just a drawing from Kanjuuro, no pops involved. Of course he was going to show off his new stuff in Fishman Island, that's what the arc was supposed to be. Since then he used the banana boat and paddles in PH and a leaf shuriken in DR. As far as I remember, that's it.
Actually, the Sugar situation should be mentioned - well, the second one that is. Usopp showed immense amounts of technical knowledge and creativity and most certainly his aptitude for pranks when he sniped her from that far.
Of course you're not gonna remember many of his battles post-timeskip…because he hasn't had much. Just the one in Fishman Island, which was more or less just meant to display his new powers, and against Sugar in Dressrosa. Kinda limited, though I will point out that the guy didn't have too many pre-timeskip battles either. In due time...
I would really love if Usopp played a more proactive/aggressive role even as a slingshot sniper. The Strawhats running away would be a great opportunity for him to use his skills while they do so. I don't expect him to be Strong since Oda said he'd be the weakest, but at least have him as a support role.
People have the right to point out what goes wrong.
Whether you realize it or not, you have actually supported my post with this statement.
@Chrior I believe your analysis is spot on. I hope that Oda learned his lesson from Dressrosa and all the various things that went wrong. So far, Zou and WCI have been a breath of fresh air, and Wano's being hyped a whole lot. I suspect that he'll try to take a different approach to Wano, particularly with the possible sea battle that he mentioned in an interview.
I want to repeat that I realized I felt the pacing was off in Dressrosa. I want to see things like when Luffy fought Blueno a long time ago. I was also glad to see Zou come up, it was refreshing. I don't want to see a battle where Luffy has to power up / sleep mid-battle, but I can understand he was tired in Dressrosa. I just want to see an interesting skirmish that doesn't have him as Gear 4. (It's a bit too silly)
Since this is brought up a number of times in the thread, my beef with the cake stratagem is that it sounds fruitless to begin with.
Before cake: crazy hungry Big Mom is chasing you to the ends of the earth because food disorder. So does her crew.
After cake: level-headed Big Mom is chasing you to the ends of the earth because you ruined her wedding plans, ate her cake, destroyed her castle, broke her cherished Mother portrait, took part in her attempted murder, … So does her crew.How does the cake change anything? Of course there is going to be more to it, we readers know to expect that, but the characters don't. From their more limited perspective it sounds ridiculous that the Straw Hats are even willing to try it at all.
Sanji is just trying to score before he leaves. He already left prematurely with Viola and he is determined to not let it happen with Pudding. After 2 years with a bunch of Okama he deserves a reward dammit.
Sanji is just trying to score before he leaves. He already left prematurely with Viola and he is determined to not let it happen with Pudding. After 2 years with a bunch of Okama he deserves a reward dammit.
Interesting angle, I had not considered it. A bit selfish on his part though.
Interesting angle, I had not considered it. A bit selfish on his part though.
Well his friends did say they wanted to help. ANd what better way to help than distracting Big Mom while he's closing the deal. You can't get better friends than that.
This arc has been hella boring lately TBH, we all know that nothing will happen to the SHs and Oda knows it. The only reason drama works in other arcs is cause of side characters that Oda makes us care about, this arc has asshole germa and thats it. I dont care about popooding.
Agreed. I've been bored basically since 2017 began. Mostly boring chapters.
Pudding does bug me, as it's just rather odd but eh, not a deal breaker. It's the slow pace and just…idk I've been bored for what feels like a long time. I'm actually not 100% sure when I began getting bored but I just feel like this arc isn't fun for the most part, and that saddens me.
Sanji is just trying to score before he leaves. He already left prematurely with Viola and he is determined to not let it happen with Pudding. After 2 years with a bunch of Okama he deserves a reward dammit.
Sanji needs a W with a women for once after all.
Yeah, I think Usopp has been getting shafted. I've been wondering what the hell he did with his old weapons? No more impact dials? No exploding star? No Shuriken star? Now it's just "Oh this is a difficult situation, let me use this very specific plant in my pocket that can do exactly what I need." I hope Usopp gives him and the rest of the Strawhats actual fights in Wano. Especially Sanji, assuming he doesn't get a good one before this arc ends.
Usopp just shined in Dressrosa all crazy and used haki. So hes not in this arc, he'll definitely be back!
Edit: I saw someone said he had a poor showing in FI, which maybe true. But during PH he showed up a big handling a buncha mooks, kinda like chopper those guys have been stepping up in that regard.
Sometimes I forget about Usopp. Like what does he do anymore besides gag wins. Elbaf can't come sooner.
Since this is brought up a number of times in the thread, my beef with the cake stratagem is that it sounds fruitless to begin with.
Before cake: crazy hungry Big Mom is chasing you to the ends of the earth because food disorder. So does her crew.
After cake: level-headed Big Mom is chasing you to the ends of the earth because you ruined her wedding plans, ate her cake, destroyed her castle, broke her cherished Mother portrait, took part in her attempted murder, … So does her crew.
This could still make sense, with Mom being in a cake-coma and her crew too tired out from holding her off that they give the Straw Hats a pass until she's back to her senses. The crew may at least feel a sense of gratitude that they're not all Mom-chow. But even though Luffy's group have accomplished their objectives it leaves the story almost the same place it started.
I'm not sure if Oda plans to break the whole concept of the Four Emperors now by having Luffy somehow get a win or if he just wanted to set up getting another piece of the Ponyglyph map and leave things still in balance until later on.
If it's the former my guess is Pudding's memory powers may come into play. Maybe she'll change Mom's view of the Straw Hats to something more benign or even go back and change some details of her origin.
Whichever it is Mom is going to be neutralized for a while as the Straw Hats are almost certainly heading straight into Wano next and could even head straight from there to the Raftel course, neither of which are areas she can move freely around.
This could still make sense, with Mom being in a cake-coma and her crew too tired out from holding her off that they give the Straw Hats a pass until she's back to her senses. The crew may at least feel a sense of gratitude that they're not all Mom-chow. But even though Luffy's group have accomplished their objectives it leaves the story almost the same place it started.
I agree that what you describe is the likeliest outcome. In her current state Big Mom is a threat to her people as much as to the Straw Hats, albeit a slightly less immediate one. The Charlotte siblings may eventually agree that Sanji's cooking saved their sorry asses, but at the moment I feel they're still lacking some heavy collateral damage to drive the point home. One way or the other, Pudding's memory powers will certainly offer a way out of this messy situation and there are several ways this could happen.
Still, Sanji has no way of knowing all of this at the time he agrees to the cake plan, so to him this should really be a desperate measure that offers but a tiny sliver of hope.
Then again, his current attitude is more stylish than if he was walking in the arena all whiny.