well, shit.
best dad ever
but why sanji wasn't really killed then? why bother even making fake funeral for him
Chapter 840: "Iron Mask"
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Sanji only recognizes the ladies. :wub:
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Vergo was an elite Marine soldier. Former commander of G-5.
he has ascended the ranks only fairly recently…back in law's flashback,which is after sanji's flashback, he was still a simple marine soldier..whoever dna's has beet taken from it's from someone who was an elite when the whole germa army creation started,way before sanji's flashback (since they need 5 years to make at least one batch)
also the affiliation between the WG and germa might as well happened after the creation of the army itself,since before that judge was a scientist actually trying to escape the WG
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a good chapter.we learn a lot of stuff.judge and vegapunk worked together.clones are made in a short amount of time.reiju is actually good.and also kid sanji is very cute.
i think we can assume that ichiji is sort of the leader of the bunch.he is definitely the alpha.
and based on their running and swimming scene,the power ranking of the siblings is Ichiji>reiju>niji>yonji
also,if reiju was the strongest,she wouldn't be that afraid of being bullied.of course this is just based on activities like running and swimming,and may not reflect their fighting strentgh,and their strength could have changed over the years.
And perhaps most importantly,we learn that they indeed had a mother.they would most probably have been born by IVF,or any such method.
and i think it's pretty likely that judge will turn out to be a case of "wife's loss made him evil",at least to some extent because when talking about his wife he seemed pretty angryDid I miss something or Sanji is free from his exploding bracelet ? XD
holy shit,completely missed that!:blink:
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Mentioned in the spoiler thread but the Vegapunk connection is probably why Sanji had access to Devil Fruit Encyclopedia as a kid. Judge and Vegapunk were probably some DNA related research together. Plus Vegapunk is studying how devil fruits interact with human DNA.
Successful negro doesn't need a signature.
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Is it just me or is Sanji missing his explosive cuffs the entire time?
The eyebrows are curled like the Patterns on the DFs and the double-Helix of the DNA is curled as well. Well connected, Oda!
On no. Oh no no no no…
I do not like where this is going. Please Oda, do NOT turn this series into bioshock, please do not let the DFs be plasmids.
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@Dr.:
Actually in this chapter it was clear he was about to destroy Niji, who didn't even see the kick, and was forced to blackmail Sanji to hit him.
Did you completely miss Niji doing the same thing to Sanji like three panels later or what the hell. The black mail comment wasn't made in duress at all, he had already ambushed Sanji himself without Sanji noticing, and without any visible damage taken from Sanji's kick.
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Did I miss something or Sanji is free from his exploding bracelet ? XD
It's probably just a mistake by Oda.
I'm fully expecting Sanji to beat the shit out of all of his family (maybe aside Reiju who may have saved him as a kid) at the end of this arc. I honestly think he's stronger than all of them, except maybe Judge, but even then he only lost cos he didn't want to hit the "wall"
And when my boy Sanji does beat them all up, it gonna be soooo satisfying
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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would it be too clichèè for sanji to somehow "unlock" the gene modifications that have been latent for so long and get a power up? :P
It would shit all over the far more awesome "I'm a normal human who worked my way up to beat the crap out of you superhumans" theme.
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Mentioned in the spoiler thread but the Vegapunk connection is probably why Sanji had access to Devil Fruit Encyclopedia as a kid. Judge and Vegapunk were probably some DNA related research together. Plus Vegapunk is studying how devil fruits interact with human DNA.
well counting that blackbeard,a low level member of the whitebeard pirate had access to the devil fruit encyclopedia..that book must not be that rare in the end@Monkey:
It would shit all over the far more awesome "I'm a normal human who worked my way up to beat the crap out of you superhumans" theme.
true enough
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She may even be the one who told Sanji about All Blue.
We saw the exact moment Sanji learned about All Blue five billion chapters ago. It was the chefs he was was working with on the vacation ship that Zeff attacked.
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That right now. 13-10 years ago he was just a simple soldier in the Marines. And at that time Germa 66 already had those vergo similar kind of soldiers(that honestly I don't see them that similar, and they had already appeared before the last chapter where everybody started calling it Vergo).
True the Vergo hype is from last chapter. And they could have got THIS batch of "Vergo" clones 5 years ago where Vergo WASN'T a simple soldier like 10-13 years ago. The other Germa soldiers in the past don't have to be Vergo clones….just the ones CURRENTLY in the tubes.
But Vergo has been an ELITE OFFICER under Doflamingo for decades.
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Do you think Judge enhanced himself as well with some of this science? What do you think?
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@Monkey:
We saw the exact moment Sanji learned about All Blue five billion chapters ago. It was the chefs he was was working with on the vacation ship that Zeff attacked.
actually,no.it was sanji who mentioned All Blue to the chefs and they responded back that it was a fantasy
edit:and while i don't think we have proof that vergo ist he source of the clones,but ranking in marines doesn't necessarily depend on strength.he had just joined the nave,they aren't gonna know the extent of his strength and even if they did know,he wasn't gonna get insta-promoted to Vice-Admiral.especially when that would draw attention to him
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Yonji is the biggest asshole… he kicked a damn turtle
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@Monkey:
It would shit all over the far more awesome "I'm a normal human who worked my way up to beat the crap out of you superhumans" theme.
Damn you MK don't you realize a good portion of the fanbase just wants to see fights and power ups and don't care about themes?
well counting that blackbeard,a low level member of the whitebeard pirate had access to the devil fruit encyclopedia..that book must not be that rare in the endtrue enough
Probably but would explain why Sanji as kid could have access to such of thing. Plus hobbies include researching history :ninja:
Successful negro doesn't need a signature.
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And what about Reiju… Why wasn't she mentioned on being "on track"
Or is it because she is older and already has more experience?
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Another good chapter, but in some ways it feels the exposition is getting a bit too heavy in some respects. It's not terrible levels yet, and being the beginning of an arc it's fine, but it just feels a bit too much. That or because of too much exposition from one series I'm starting to get a bit weary of exposition in everything.
As for the actual content, we get another Vegapunk reference and some background on him. Between that and recently the kids being taken to him, we might be getting some stuff on him soon, or at least a reveal of him. Though correct me if I am wrong, wasn't it implied that Vegapunk had some morals compared to Caesar Clown? Seems like becoming God and making life could break that. Then again, there's a chance that learning that was his one discovery he wish he didn't make, and seeing the weapons that came from it is something he loathes but is forced to do. Also with Judge having been a big scientist at one point and relying mostly on technology and his soldiers, I can see more credence to the theory that the sons will backstab him in some way. Perhaps the deal with Big Mom goes south in some way, and knowing about Judge he is forced to work along side Caesar to make Big Mom's dream a reality. Probably a stretch but could be possible.
Flashback was a sad and disturbing one. I liked the visuals to show how the others were far more superior compared to Sanji, and personality wise. Made for a nice contrast and to do so in a limited time was pretty good. As some were predicting Reiju is in fact not a terrible person, or at least what we are being lead to believe. If she had just said to Sanji she had to take part of the bullying I would say that means nothing, but her reaction to the death of Sanji says otherwise and was genuine in that regard. We also have mention of the mother and her ideals, so that most likely means that the mother instilled all of Sanji's beliefs into him.
Last was the little skirmish with Sanji and Niji. Sanji got a nice hit on him and gave a nice show of how far he has come. Unfortunately, Sanji has some Achilles heels here and was forced to stop after a hit so nothing bad would happen to him or Zeff. So I guess next chapter we will see how Sanji escaped from his prison and eventually joined the ship he was on that Zeff attacked. There are two possibilities in my mind on how this happens. Judge figures that Sanji dies by going into the wild or being thrown into the sea, expecting him to die just being a regular human, but he survives and finds shelter. The other guess it Reiju finds out what's going on and helps him escape.
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So, "Poison Pink" can eat poison, and "Electric Blue" has electric powers. I wonder what Ichiji's and Yonji's powers are.
So many people in the world. And so many bullets. Lots and lots of bullets.
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On no. Oh no no no no…
I do not like where this is going. Please Oda, do NOT turn this series into bioshock, please do not let the DFs be plasmids.
Those soldiers are already doing the "Would you kindly…" thing.
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And why Judge hasn't simply killed Sanji off?
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gattaca vibes
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@Monkey:
Did you completely miss Niji doing the same thing to Sanji like three panels later or what the hell. The black mail comment wasn't made in duress at all, he had already ambushed Sanji himself without Sanji noticing, and without any visible damage taken from Sanji's kick.
If you notice in the top panel Sanji put his hand on Niji's arm, and then he tell him to not fight back. It's clear Oda wants to show he could have fought back and freed himself from Niji's grasp.
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@Monkey:
We saw the exact moment Sanji learned about All Blue five billion chapters ago. It was the chefs he was was working with on the vacation ship that Zeff attacked.
I'm sorry to say this, but if my memory serves me right, this was actually just a scene added on episode 51 which is filler.
The information about who told Sanji about All Blue is not expanded upon in the manga thus far, anyone is free to correct me.https://twitter.com/brain_yz 
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Yonji is the biggest asshole… he kicked a damn turtle
#Justice for the turtle. But seriously kinda adorable to Sanji care about a rat and turtle.
Also where does Sanji rank in sad One Piece childhood tier list? -
@Monkey:
Did you completely miss Niji doing the same thing to Sanji like three panels later or what the hell. The black mail comment wasn't made in duress at all, he had already ambushed Sanji himself without Sanji noticing, and without any visible damage taken from Sanji's kick.
Niji ambushing Sanji occurs pretty much simultaneously with Ichiji distracting Sanji with a mention of Zeff; Sanji looks away, and its as he looks back to Niji that he's vanishing. Then Niji holds Zeff hostage again before actually damaging him. As for the damage, though he obviously recovered quickly, it also obviously affected Niji, going by his beads of sweat, his non-passive expression, and having to reset his jaw while sweating. Its a far cry from the complete impassiveness of Sanjis attack on him as a kid.
Combined with Judges attacks never seeming to cause actual damage or discomfort to Sanji, and the last hit getting in as Sanji is distracted by the cowardly "Wall" technique, I'd say Oda is being careful in setting up Sanji to unleash righteous fury upon his family as soon as Zeff is out of the equation. Though if we're arguing semantics, no Sanji probably won't "instantly destroy" them; Well, not all of them at least.
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@Dr.:
It's clear Oda wants to show he could have fought back
Sure.
and freed himself from Niji's grasp.
No.
If you notice in the top panel Sanji put his hand on Niji's arm, and then he tell him to not fight back.
And of course you're completely ignoring the stuff that refutes entirely what you originally said.
-Niji took no noticeable damage.
-Niji ambushed Sanji right back.Oda hasn't shown at all that Sanji secretly outclasses his brothers, and the blackmail element has nothing at all to do with combat. Its to keep Sanji cooperative with the wedding ceremony and subsequent alliance marriage.
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@The:
Though correct me if I am wrong, wasn't it implied that Vegapunk had some morals compared to Caesar Clown? Seems like becoming God and making life could break that.
i think that's a huge stretch.Just curious,do you think that all the scientists researching GENES and Genetic Modification and cloning want to be God or are evil?it could just be due to his curiosity as a scientist to unravel everything about the world.
and as you said he could also regret his decision.though even if he doesn not,it does not necessarily mean he wanted to use his discoveries for evilAnd why Judge hasn't simply killed Sanji off?
he wants to kill him off,but i don't think he actually could.in the end,he is still his son and also maybe reminds him of his mother.(?)
sorta like tyrion and tywin -
I'm sorry to say this, but if my memory serves me right, this was actually just a scene added on episode 51 which is filler.
The information about who told Sanji about All Blue is not expanded upon in the manga thus far, anyone is free to correct me.I was wrong in that the conversation that started (before the panels) does show Sanji introducing the All Blue into the conversation.
But that scene isn't filler lol, its directly in the manga.Things that will never happened: Me accidentally confusing filler for the manga.
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Yeah Mangastream is always funny like that. I'm not sure why Niji used the term "swing that way" when the context is only used for somebody being gay. I thought Niji was mocking Sanji's love Zeff but apparently not?
And if Cosette is really crippled than what the fuck?Pretty sure mocking Sanji's love for Zeff was exactly what he was doing, only by saying it like they were romantically involved. Ugh, just think about the age gap there. We know that neither Oda as a person or Niiji as a character are socially conscious enough to be above calling someone gay as an insult, even if I don't quite think it's Oda's style. But implying pedophilia, especially considering the target audience in Japan seems way over the line. It simply reeks of Mangastream.
I will be looking forward to Viz's release.
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Although I feel it would be a cliché, it wouldn't surprise me if Judge turned into captain Jerkass from his wife's death. I feel like he will have a character arc at some point on Wholecake.
I'm not quite sure if I'd be on board with this or not. Guess it'd be up to the execution.
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@Monkey:
Niji took no noticeable damage.
Actually he did. He had to refix his face.
Niji ambushed Sanji right back
So what? He could have freed himself, even though you don't agree. Sanji showed to be faster by kicking him in the face suddenly.
Oda hasn't shown at all that Sanji secretly outclasses his brothers, and the blackmail element has nothing at all to do with combat. Its to keep Sanji cooperative with the wedding ceremony and subsequent alliance marriage.
Why not? It happens all the time in manga, films, fiction in general.
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~~@Daz:
Niji ambushing Sanji occurs pretty much simultaneously with Ichiji distracting Sanji with a mention of Zeff; Sanji looks away, and its as he looks back to Niji that he's vanishing.
Niji literally announces he's about to sneak attack ("STEALTH") and we have a whole panel of Sanji reacting to this that comes after the Ichiji comment about Zeff.
Niji successfully grapples Sanji from behind, and Sanji starts (as Dr. Faust inadvertently pointed out) preparing to fight back. And only THEN stops further action because of Niji making further remarks on Zeff (well that and the electric knee to the back).As for the damage, though he obviously recovered quickly, it also obviously affected Niji, going by his beads of sweat,
Seriously? Beads of sweat?
his non-passive expression, and having to reset his jaw while sweating.
Again with the sweat lol.
The jaw implies minor damage at best, but he's not remotely bruised or bloody (hallmarks of One Piece damage), and not even sweating in the subsequent panels.Its a far cry from the complete impassiveness of Sanjis attack on him as a kid.
Yes. Know what else its a far cry from? Sanji clearly having the upper-hand on his brothers and only being held back by blackmail.
A reading which requires severe illiteracy to the scene. Any moment where Sanji clearly demonstrates some level of superiority to either Ichiji or Niji is going to be some major level of mental crash for either of them. Its going to be a very dramatic moment. That did not occur in this chapter lol.
Further to the point, Faust and you are making the obviously false assumption that the Zeff threat is being used to pacify the dangerous Sanji who they're afraid of.
They are not afraid of him.
The threat is about control over Sanji's behavior and rebellious instincts.
It will in some chapter sooner or later become more about that quite possibly. Not right now though.~~Combined with Judges attacks never seeming to cause actual damage or discomfort to Sanji, and the last hit getting in as Sanji is distracted by the cowardly "Wall" technique, I'd say Oda is being careful in setting up Sanji to unleash righteous fury upon his family as soon as Zeff is out of the equation. Though if we're arguing semantics, no Sanji probably won't "instantly destroy" them; Well, not all of them at least.
If you believe this then you should be agreeing with me. Dr. Faust's reading of the scene is implying the family is barely holding Sanji back and using Zeff to avoid having their asses kicked.
I agree that the exact level of competition is being kept extremely vague on purpose, both for the readers and for the Vinsmokes. And that the key drama element in this is the latter, they will have to be shocked and surprised and satisfyingly taken down a peg or ten by the revelation that being a "dud" didn't stop Sanji from surpassing them (or beating them in combat).
And that requires them to retain their sense of smug absolute superiority until that time comes. -
@Monkey:
I was wrong in that the conversation that started (before the panels) does show Sanji introducing the All Blue into the conversation.
But that scene isn't filler lol, its directly in the manga.Things that will never happened: Me accidentally confusing filler for the manga.
Well, I've just double checked and there is a filler scene in episode 51 were some random cooks introduce the legend of All-Blue to Sanji. That made me think you might have mixed the two scenes or something, but you are free to claim whether or not you mixed the two scenes.
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So the Bros are like Vergo… But Sanji this time won't fail against iron hard material LOL
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Apparently some people noticed the books Sanji was reading about was related was Devil Fruit book and the Noland Liar book (don't remember the name) Any translators can confirm that?
@Captain:Pretty sure mocking Sanji's love for Zeff was exactly what he was doing, only by saying it like they were romantically involved. Ugh, just think about the age gap there. We know that neither Oda as a person or Niiji as a character are socially conscious enough to be above calling someone gay as an insult, even if I don't quite think it's Oda's style. But implying pedophilia, especially considering the target audience in Japan seems way over the line. It simply reeks of Mangastream.
I will be looking forward to Viz's release.
I was more puzzled with the mention of Cosette afterwards. I thought hey maybe he's talking about Cosette instead now I'm not sure. >. >
Successful negro doesn't need a signature.
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Damn… just how much bigger of an asshole can Sanji's dad become?
Find out next week on One Piece! ~
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@Dr.:
Actually he did. He had to refix his face.
He cracked his jaw a bit. Lacking any bruising or blood.
lol at "refix".So what?
Then "so what" to Sanji ambushing Niji in the first place is so what lol.
You based half your post on Sanji being able to move so fast that Niji couldn't react in time. But now that I point out that Niji did the same thing to Sanji in response you don't seem to think its a big deal all of a sudden?He could have freed himself,
You don't know that for certain and have no reason to suppose you do.
Sanji showed to be faster by kicking him in the face suddenly.
So not only did you stop caring about moving faster then another guy can react in this post when it was convenient for your argument, you then RE-CARED about it again when it was convenient two sentences later.
Why not? It happens all the time in manga, films, fiction in general.
Because his brothers aren't fucking afraid of him. And them being afraid of him by this point would be extremely dumb, and running entirely counter to everything going on in the story between Sanji and his family. Including the entire emphasis of this chapter, of Sanji being a weakling dud who could "never" keep up with his brothers. Its as if you read just the pages of Sanji kicking stuff and ignored anything else (including people kicking Sanji).
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Well, I've just double checked and there is a filler scene in episode 51 were some random cooks introduce the legend of All-Blue to Sanji. That made me think you might have mixed the two scenes or something, but you are free to claim whether or not you mixed the two scenes.
Its ok July 2016, you don't know better than to think I'm remotely familiar with what the hell the anime does.
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I'm not quite sure if I'd be on board with this or not. Guess it'd be up to the execution.
Yeah, it feels kinda overdone. I hope Oda refrains from using that, but I feel as if the set up is already there.
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No, not the poor tortoise. Why Yonji why? :sad:
↑Biological Weaopn of Doom and Destruction
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@Monkey:
Its ok July 2016, you don't know better than to think I'm remotely familiar with what the hell the anime does.
I don't care if you're familiar with the anime or not, I was just stating the reasoning behind my previous reply. I also made sure to mention that you're free to claim whatever you want, nobody knows about you more than yourself.
And I find it surprising that you're using my registering date as an insult, why insult at all, and you keep replying in that discussion that will bear no fruit.
There's a possibility that someone else remembers this filler scene and my comment made him realize it was from episode 51, but your replies are useless, and I'm pretty sure very few people care about you watching the anime or not.https://twitter.com/brain_yz 
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@Dr.:
And about Reiju, contrarily to what i thought, it turned out she's not completely heartless. Interesting, but now after all this years i wonder what are her thoughts on the matter, she was afraid to go against her family wishes as a kid, but now she might even have remorse for what she did to Sanji. Maybe she has a plan of her own to help him.
inb4 we're going to learn later in the flashback that she was the one who released him from his prison and the iron mask, unbeknown to the rest of the family (and possibly Sanji himself). His chilvary towards women may or may not have stemmed from this.
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@le:
No, not the poor tortoise. Why Yonji why? :sad:
Sort of related but tortoises also have exoskeletons. Yonji is showing his dominance :p
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would it be too clichèè for sanji to somehow "unlock" the gene modifications that have been latent for so long and get a power up? :P
Sanji already mentioned the value of Food (nutrients and stuff) the last chapter, whereas Niji just ate mouth-watering chocolate.
Would be funny if Sanji outmatch his superhuman Brothers just by eating the right Food. The whole TimeSkip of Sanji was themed around tose 99 vital recipes. They may come in Handy on this archipelago of Sweets. -
It was mentioned by Law in chapter 698
Credit : http://apforums.net/showthread.php?t=44502&page=3&p=3698881&viewfull=1#post3698881
Thx :)
So lineage factors are pretty much confirmed to be DNA and also has something to do with creating DFs, interesting :)
Anyone got some good theories about that? -
Actually, in this chapter Sanji didn't saw that stealth attack, but in the last chapter Sanji was ready to take Niji's kick. He had no defensive stance or sth. Luckily Judge stopped Niji's attack.
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inb4 we're going to learn later in the flashback that she was the one who released him from his prison and the iron mask, unbeknown to the rest of the family (and possibly Sanji himself). His chilvary towards women may or may not have stemmed from this.
I view this as pretty likely, but part of me wants Reiju to not be above it all. I see the hints in the chapter, that she's just playing along with her more malicious brothers and father (and even in the present day, we can see that they're more harsh), and I'm down with that, but….
I dunno, is it a copout or what have you to have the sole female member of the organization not be so evil after all? No matter which way you slice it, it's Sanji who is getting the worst abuse, mainly because he and he alone was viewed as a genetic failure. Would she get the same treatment if she defended Sanji, despite being like her brothers and "successful"?
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Pretty sure mocking Sanji's love for Zeff was exactly what he was doing, only by saying it like they were romantically involved. Ugh, just think about the age gap there. We know that neither Oda as a person or Niiji as a character are socially conscious enough to be above calling someone gay as an insult, even if I don't quite think it's Oda's style. But implying pedophilia, especially considering the target audience in Japan seems way over the line. It simply reeks of Mangastream.
I'm not sure the intention goes that far. Considering what happened just before and the rest of the dialog, Niji would rather be taunting Sanji in the sense "I didn't know you (a royal) could fall for someone as low as our chef Cosette". In his eyes, that would be insulting and against what he considers normality, which is maybe why MS chose that specific wording. In their defense, I think they did mention at one point that insults in japanese aren't easy to translate straight into english.
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inb4 we're going to learn later in the flashback that she was the one who released him from his prison and the iron mask, unbeknown to the rest of the family (and possibly Sanji himself). His chilvary towards women may or may not have stemmed from this.
Would explain why Sanji doesn't like any men except the likes of Zeff and Luffy and why he is the way he is with the ladies. I also think that Reiju freed him from that mask.
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@Monkey:
You don't know that for certain and have no reason to suppose you do.
That's true. But usually in manga when blackmail stuff get mixed in a fight you can bet it actually affect the outcome, and as Daz said Ichiji warned Sanji before Niji could grasp him. So, i have a very strong feeling he could have freed himself, that's all. It's not like i have actual proof, but i'm pretty certain that's how things actually are.
@Monkey:
Because his brothers aren't fucking afraid of him. And them being afraid of him by this point would be extremely dumb, and running entirely counter to everything going on in the story between Sanji and his family.Including the entire emphasis of this chapter, of Sanji being a weakling dud who could "never" keep up with his brothers.
I never said that Niji used the Zeff blackmail because he's scared of Sanji, though they probably aknowledge the fact that, having a 177 mil bounty he's bound to be pretty strong, they're probably underestimating him. Niji just wanted to hit Sanji without putting too much effort.
But that does not mean that Sanji now, after all this years of trainings, battles to death and adventures, can't still even defend himself from them.
It just would not make sense storywise. -
I'm glad to see that Sanji got his kindness from his mother and Reiju isn't as far gone as her brothers. Can't wait to see Sanji fight back in full force.
