@HeartOfDarkness:
Would be the prefect time to show an example of this since the series under discussion is a manga and not fan-fictions.
Chapter 1, pg.13: https://www.viz.com/read/manga/bleach-vol-1/1351
Isshin: "Or maybe you want to rub it in my face that you can see ghosts and I can't?! Why can't I have the gift?! Why?!"
Ichigo: "I didn't ask for it!!"
Chapter 1, pg. 15:
Yuzu: "Ichigo's been under a lot of pressure lately! He told me more ghosts than ever have been haunting him! He's fed up!"
Isshin: "What?! He talks about that kind of stuff with you??"
^ text evidence of Ichigo wanting to live a normal life.
Check out the panel of Ichigo's expression during his first encounter with Rukia. He's scared to death. (pg. 16) Much of Ichigo's first encounter with Rukia is marked with fear…he knows that something bad is gonna happen.
Read the text boxes in black that interrupt the chapter in Ichigo's voice. "It's true. I can see and talk to ghosts. For real... I've been able to see and talk to ghosts for as long as I can remember. I see the dead as well as I see the living. So the existence of reapers had never crossed my mind."
Ichigo hears the Hollow and sees his baby sister bleeding on the floor, mentioning his dad's back had exploded. He wants to protect his family so bad that he breaks out of a spell. The first time Ichigo sees a hollow, he trembles with fear. But he sees that his other baby sister might die if he doesn't do something, so he fights. Rukia protects him. Stop and consider something. What would have happened if Rukia had not been there? Ichigo and his entire family would have died. He even offers himself as a sacrifice against that first hollow so that his family won't die–all of this has been true from the very beginning.
Now consider the fact that Ichigo's goal in every arc has been to protect someone close to him and stop Hollows from killing everyone in his hometown. This is obvious in the first arc. Let's make a list of stakes and goals.
Soul Society arc:
Stakes: Rukia, the one who gave him the means to protect his family from terrifying invisible monsters that have the ability to wipe out everyone he loves just because of his reiatsu, is set to be executed.
Ichigoals: Ichigo goes to save Rukia because without her, his entire family would have died. He cares about her and feels indebted to her.
Hueco Mundo arc:
Stakes: Orihime, Ichigo's childhood friend and love interest, defects to Aizen's team after they threaten to kill all of her friends. Considering that Ichigo keeps taking losses, Orihime thinks that this is the only way she can save anyone. Soul Society refuses to help him save her.
Ichigoals: Ichigo goes to save Orihime. Deep down, he probably loves her but can't articulate it (seeing as how they eventually marry and have a son). From the beginning, it was a "rescue Orihime" mission–not a "defeat Aizen" mission. That was primarily Soul Society's goal. Ichigo doesn't become involved in that fight until he learns of Aizen's goal to destroy his city for nefarious, selfish purposes.
The Fullbringer arc: Stakes: Ichigo wanted the means to protect his family and town from hollows again after becoming powerless. He knows about the dangers that his city potentially faces and feels weak after seeing Chad/Uryu go after hollows with him being unable to do anything. So a man offers him power. Ginjo had the potential to be like Rukia and Zangetsu to Ichigo, but fails because of his selfish goals.
Ichigoals: After getting his Fullbringer abilities, his only goal is to kill Tsukishima and Ginjo–who have fucked with his family's memories. Ichigo kills his first person because Ginjo fucks with his friends and family. You don't do that.
The Quincy arc:
Stakes: The man who gave Ichigo power, Zangetsu (or God), was actually responsible for his mother's death and now wants to destroy everything Ichigo loves.
Ichigoals: To defeat Yhwach and stop him from destroying Ichigo's world.
Is that example enough for you? Honestly, it felt tedious to me. All of this information was obvious from the beginning–you need to do the work yourself. The fact that the last chapter is largely a reunion of friends is no mistake. Same thing with the relationship (and no, I don't mean romantic) motif being touched upon so heavily with Haschwalth and Yhwach.
@HeartOfDarkness:
Kubo is exploring death as in death in the "real" world? My god what a profound piece of artistic expression.
It is a profound piece of artistic expression for the medium. Most manga is worthless drivel that follows archetypes and has them achieve/complete vague goals without anything real at stake. You could go on any manga website and find mostly trash until you come across a diamond.
@HeartOfDarkness:
Nice! Now we have Bleach fanboys acknowledging that Kubo lost his passion for Bleach around Aizen arc but still trying to justify it by claiming that Kubo had a much bigger "message" to convey.
This is a ridiculous quote and I'm going to break it down because of your obvious attempt to disparage my character without actually responding to my viewpoints.
- "Bleach fanboys" is a pejorative term on any website. "Fanboy" especially. Get over yourself. I've been reading this series for more than half of my life, so of course I know quite a bit about it. Get off your high horse because everyone knows you're the exact same way.
- "Kubo lost his passion for Bleach"–Kubo continued writing and drawing the series for fifteen years. Do you really think it's a coincidence that he ended the series on its 15th anniversary? Or that the main character's name can be read as "15"? Or that he was "15" at the start of the series? Kubo did all of this by CHOICE. It would have been easy to show Aizen's bankai at any point in the manga. But Kubo decided not to. The characters' powers were not as important as what they meant to the series. Character abilities often align to character ideology. Take Hisagi, for instance, whose weapon is a deathtrap. One slip with his wrist and he could kill himself. Hisagi talks about how he even fears his weapon and how it's necessary. This goes back to the "Right Arm of the Giant" motif I talk about in that thread link.
- People thinking that the Aizen arc is when Kubo lost his passion are entirely incorrect–I think that's when he probably really started to enjoy what he did.
- Kubo did have a bigger message to convey. You're just choosing not to see it. Your post reminds me of Fox News…you've regurgitated (for lack of a better word) all of these familiar and common talking points reiterated thousands of times by uninspired plebeians on the web. Think for yourself. I don't mean that as an insult. Truly, re-read it and don't let anything you've heard about the series (or prior emotions associated with it) cloud your vision.
- The only reason I'm posting is to give other readers of this website another viewpoint. At the end of the day, I enjoyed my time with Bleach and nothing will change that. I thought it might be interesting to post viewpoints contradictory from the hivemind, but groupthink and conformity seem to be valued more than originality when it comes to this thread.
@HeartOfDarkness:
Umm he hated Soul Reapers and started a pissing contest between Ichigo solely because of Ichigo being a soul reaper. Take that out and Uryu has no reason whatsoever to hate Ichigo.
You're right in saying that the Soul Reaper connection is initially why Uryu hates Ichigo (I think of it as the base). But Uryu has to learn to like him. Uryu hates Ichigo's personality based on the stereotypes he's made about him. Once Uryu sees he's a good dude, the only reason he has to dislike Ichigo is that Orihime chose Strawberry over the rain dragon. But he gets over it.
@HeartOfDarkness:
I was talking more about the actual message and not "KUBO YOU GENIUS" wanking in that link.
Sorry but i don't try to find deeper meaning in a series that clearly doesn't warrant a deeper look. That has to be earned, and Bleach doesn't even earn a deeper look at its portrayal of friendship ( which btw is probably one of the worst i have ever seen).
If you're not going to put in the work, then I have nothing else to say to you. It'll fall on deaf ears regardless because you want everything spelled out for you. I couldn't care less about what you think about Bleach. I'm posting about what I think.
@HeartOfDarkness:
It's fine i don't really expect much argument beyond "DEEP, PHILOSOPICAL, ARTISTIC". I mean you have made what like more than 5 posts on this subject yet still can't properly explain your point and have to rely on "analysis" of stuff to somehow prove your points.
Hint: when you are trying to prove a point, do just that using the actual series instead of " well guys read this analysis which surely proves my point which btw is…... something Kubo deep something".
lol. Want me to break down your point again?
- The "DEEP, PHILOSOPICAL [sic], ARTISTIC" in all caps is meant to disparage my comment without addressing any specific point, just as how my addition of "[sic]" in this sentence is intended to poke fun at your spelling without addressing any point. Childish.
- "still can't properly explain your point and have to rely on "analysis" of stuff to somehow prove your points." Rephrased, you're essentially saying "Well yeah, I know you've written pages of evidence regarding these characters but I'm too lazy to go do the work and actually try to understand them. So I'll just throw shade."
- When people feel as though their intelligence has been insulted or threatened, they attack with sound and fury but signify nothing. You're generalizing my argument without fully reading it. Just accept the loss and move on. You're not going to win this battle.
@HeartOfDarkness:
….......... What's your point?
That's not how people make friends in any sense of the word. Doing things for other people who do nothing for you is slavery. Uryu did things for Orihime because he liked her. He wasn't friends with them necessarily either. It takes more than that. Going through experiences together and bonding through them is what made him friends with his crew.
In short, haters gonna hate.
@Purple:
Yeah sure, quick quips here and there, but def not enough time to go piece by piece into arguments, especially with other stuff in actual life on my plate to deal with. I could keep going with you ad nauseam, and sure, you can call it a cop-out, but frankly I don't give enough of a fuck about this to keep going with this and your adamant desire for Bleach to mean more than it actually does.
I have a busy life too, but I can at the very least respond when I've been addressed. And it's not an "adamant desire for Bleach to mean more than it actually does"–I've just picked up on something you haven't and sharing it with the community.