Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !
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Right now I'm wondering if some of the gents loyal to Kozuki are loosely based on the Shichifukujin. There are sooooooooo many references to movies though.
There's nothing I dislike about the notion aside from that it seems like the easiest answer. I might be slightly more satisfied if Okiku was Hiyori or something but the Otama link makes a good deal of sense albeit the issues raised above.
Doesn't this guy looks like he's based on the fat one of the Shichifukujin?
Also how can Tama be Momo's sister? She was there four years ago. Why would her mother send her to a separate time, all alone? And going by Tenguyama's explanation to Luffy, he said "she could live somewhere else but she's staying here (in that village) because she's waiting for someone". She just happened to stay with Tenguyama, not because they both have history with the Kozuki clan.
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Didn't most think the guy with crocus is scooper gaban since they have similar hair?
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Sorry but only Meadows gets to be everyone, Scopper Gaban lately trying to get that spot from him, not happening.
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I don't know why it would be like that but if the Tama=Hiyori thing was true the way it'd happen imo is that she (and the other retainer who would have to be the Tengu) got sent to a different time for some reason as of yet unexplained and the Tengu is hiding her identity. That would also explain why Kiku doesn't recognize her, since 20 years ago she was a toddler but now she's 8. I dunno what that kind of thing would add to the story though, like why Hiyori and her identity being hidden or not would be important for the plot, or why Toki would send them to that specific place in time.
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Props to you Greg-senpai, you were the first guy I heard/read to say that Kaido will have a dragon DF. And even when people shift to the Oni df after Kaido full body reveal, you stick to your idea.
Respect
To me it seemed extremely obvious that he was going to have a dragon df. Thought the clues were obvious? Although I will say I was actually expecting a western dragon, rather than an eastern.
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To me it seemed extremely obvious that he was going to have a dragon df. Thought the clues were obvious? Although I will say I was actually expecting a western dragon, rather than an eastern.
The only convincing theories I read that said Kaido would be a dragon also said he'd definitely be using clouds in the same way as Momo and would probably be an Eastern Dragon. Plus, we saw a huge Western Dragon in Punk Hazard already. Momo being a miniature version seems to have left more room for Kaido being a giant one.
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The only convincing theories I read that said Kaido would be a dragon also said he'd definitely be using clouds in the same way as Momo and would probably be an Eastern Dragon. Plus, we saw a huge Western Dragon in Punk Hazard already. Momo being a miniature version seems to have left more room for Kaido being a giant one.
Don't know why I thought he'd be a western dragon. Probably no particular reason, other than being massive/bulky. He definitely looks massive the way he is, but not bulky.
I felt that it was sufficiently foreshadowed by Kinemon when he stated that he doesn't like dragons (when he and Brooke had that stupid thing going on about who was going to kill the one on PH). And of course, it just makes sense to have someone like Kaido have a fruit like that.
Can't remember what else foreshadowed it… If I'm not mistaken Momo had something against dragons as well?
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Don't know why I thought he'd be a western dragon. Probably no particular reason, other than being massive/bulky. He definitely looks massive the way he is, but not bulky.
I felt that it was sufficiently foreshadowed by Kinemon when he stated that he doesn't like dragons (when he and Brooke had that stupid thing going on about who was going to kill the one on PH). And of course, it just makes sense to have someone like Kaido have a fruit like that.
Can't remember what else foreshadowed it… If I'm not mistaken Momo had something against dragons as well?
He also didn't like Ryunosuke. Not sure if Momo said anything about dragons but he did say this
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So you don't think its Shiki like many do?
!? Some people think that's Shiki??? :blink:
Doesn't this guy looks like he's based on the fat one of the Shichifukujin?
Yup, that's what got me started thinking down that line.
Why would her mother send her to a separate time, all alone?
What if she wasn't alone?
Didn't most think the guy with crocus is scooper gaban since they have similar hair?
But…you can't see all of the guy's hair with Crocus. He's wearing a kasa.
I'll talk about...other....things when the chapter releases officially.
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!? Some people think that's Shiki??? :blink:
Yes people actually believe that its Shiki that is drinking happily with Crocus.
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Greg, next time you see Oda, can you do me a favor and ask why Jack never uses his hybrid form?
Seeing Ch. 921 is making this start to bother me. -
Don't know why I thought he'd be a western dragon.
Can't remember what else foreshadowed it… If I'm not mistaken Momo had something against dragons as well?He also said to Brook he hated dragon because one killed people he considered as his parents. After we learn Oden was Momo’s father and Kinemon one of his retainer, there was little doubt left
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He also said to Brook he hated dragon because one killed people he considered as his parents. After we learn Oden was Momo’s father and Kinemon one of his retainer, there was little doubt left
Basically, Kaido’s fruit shouldn’t come as a surprise to anyone
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Gotta love the 'this totally isn't a surprise' brigade that weren't vocal when I first started putting my foot in the ground on this waaaaay back in Chap 689.
I think I read somewhere that a dude called it in Portugese back during MF and super props to that! That falls in the category of, "Wouldn't this be cool?" Predictions.
But damn, I am super happy that all those years ago I was able to call this one based on evidence and not simply what I thought would be cool.
689 is truly the first time this deduction is possible based on evidence and anyone saying, "It was easy to predict with evidence earlier," is definitely putting on airs.
The very first key that directly links Momo and Kinnemon to Kaido as we know him now is 689 where both of them react surprised to Kaido's name onboard Sunny. That's not to say there isn't foreshadowing like Momo's description of a pirate, Kinnemon's 'a father's revenge' comment etc. but there's literally no link to that being Kaido or any association with what we knew of him at the time.
Now, 689's anime equivalent was one of the very first pieces I ever wrote for my column on the official OP website and it remains one of the longest I've written. Almost all of it was scrapped.
It included predictions of:
Momotarou theme
Kaido representing oni (though not calling he'd look like one)
Onigashima
Kaido as a dragon
Kaido being what Momo descibed as a dragon
Kinnemon not being Momo's father, Momo's real dad being killed. (At the time, thanks to the chap where they land on DR) I stated he might have been the Shogun's son and that didn't turn out to be true until recently we find out he was the shogun's grandson. Score)
Momo would have to team up with Luffy to defeat Kaido
Momo would indeed become Shogun one day due to a blood claim (which he now has!)
And a partridge in a pear tree.I was informed that the vast majority of my article had to be scrapped.
I was never told what or why exactly I hit on the nose, but turns out it was pretty much everything as I was super happy to find out for the first time I read the chap.
The final form of the article iirc ended up being just about how suspicious it was that the name Kaido surprised Kinnemon and Momo, and that the element of surpise is what causes Momo to change.
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Why would people necessarily be vocal about it if they agreed? People tend to be more vocal if they don’t agree with things. You give off the impression that people who didn’t spoke about it sooner are bullshitting or bandwagoning. Maybe I read into what you said the wrong way, but it is the impression you give off to me.
I dunno. It just made really sense that Kaido would have a really impressive zoan fruit and hints to a dragon were there.
Is there any specific mythology about eastern dragons that may hint to some of his abilities? For a western dragon an obvious ability would be to breathe fire and the ability to fly. So other than flying, is there something else we could expect?
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You give off the impression that people who didn’t spoke about it sooner are bullshitting or bandwagoning.
While those people may indeed exist as well, rather than that, it seems that because some people called it (as far back as MF which is crazy lol) some individuals across the vast internets are sore about it (like the cake) and calling it 'predictable' because they either feel they were spoiled, they like pulling out rugs or they're upset they passionately took a different side. Hey, it happens, it's the internets. Luckily, this is Arlong Park.
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Gotta love the 'this totally isn't a surprise' brigade that weren't vocal when I first started putting my foot in the ground on this waaaaay back in Chap 689.
I think I read somewhere that a dude called it in Portugese back during MF and super props to that! That falls in the category of, "Wouldn't this be cool?" Predictions.
But damn, I am super happy that all those years ago I was able to call this one based on evidence and not simply what I thought would be cool.
689 is truly the first time this deduction is possible based on evidence and anyone saying, "It was easy to predict with evidence earlier," is definitely putting on airs.
The very first key that directly links Momo and Kinnemon to Kaido as we know him now is 689 where both of them react surprised to Kaido's name onboard Sunny. That's not to say there isn't foreshadowing like Momo's description of a pirate, Kinnemon's 'a father's revenge' comment etc. but there's literally no link to that being Kaido or any association with what we knew of him at the time.
Now, 689's anime equivalent was one of the very first pieces I ever wrote for my column on the official OP website and it remains one of the longest I've written. Almost all of it was scrapped.
It included predictions of:
Momotarou theme
Kaido representing oni (though not calling he'd look like one)
Onigashima
Kaido as a dragon
Kaido being what Momo descibed as a dragon
Kinnemon not being Momo's father, Momo's real dad being killed. (At the time, thanks to the chap where they land on DR) I stated he might have been the Shogun's son and that didn't turn out to be true until recently we find out he was the shogun's grandson. Score)
Momo would have to team up with Luffy to defeat Kaido
Momo would indeed become Shogun one day due to a blood claim (which he now has!)
And a partridge in a pear tree.I was informed that the vast majority of my article had to be scrapped.
I was never told what or why exactly I hit on the nose, but turns out it was pretty much everything as I was super happy to find out for the first time I read the chap.
The final form of the article iirc ended up being just about how suspicious it was that the name Kaido surprised Kinnemon and Momo, and that the element of surpise is what causes Momo to change.
So Kaido is being based on both an Oni and a dragon ? What's your take on that ? Why would Oda choose this route ?
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My guess for the oni part is that it just looks cool. Can't really question too much of the stuff in One Piece
although, I definitely do not know anything about those mythological things, so perhaps there could be some reason I am not aware of. -
I just don't like when someone makes a thesis on a theory that has been around for a while and gets to be the one who "called it".
And I am not talking about you Greg, just people that I'll not mention for ethical reasons.
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I wish all "called it"/"first to predict" posts would just be auto-deleted. People need to stop treating it like a competition.
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Greg, do you have any guesses on whether Kaido is a person/giant/oni/whatever with a dragon fruit, or a dragon with an oni/whatever fruit?
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Since the samurai suddenly appeared on a chosen time in the future, wouldn't the mother send the daughter to a safe future? aka the future after the 10 defeats kaido and take back wano? (the chosen date)
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So Kaido is being based on both an Oni and a dragon ? What's your take on that ? Why would Oda choose this route ?
Sure! Fair question! Kaido's design represents an oni. He doesn't actually need to be an oni because it's his entire theme (along with the 'ancient' theme).
Weevil's design represents an elephant, doesn't mean he's going to have an elephant DF.
Enel's design is based on Ganesha. Doesn't mean he's going to have a Ganesha fruit.
(why am I bringing up so many elephant-themes? lol)
Multiple ideas inform many if not most of Oda's creations, Kaido is just another one of them, not to mention his bloodline (the horns etc.) nicely fits into the world's existing mythology of a bloodline of natural or genetically-altered gigantic horned humanoids.
Greg, do you have any guesses on whether Kaido is a person/giant/oni/whatever with a dragon fruit, or a dragon with an oni/whatever fruit?
As we have an established horned giant humanoid species, I don't think the potential for that is strong (i.e. dragon that ate oni fruit). I think some people are just too unwilling to let go of their idea. But hey, anything can happen.
Since the samurai suddenly appeared on a chosen time in the future, wouldn't the mother send the daughter to a safe future?
Great question! Why wouldn't she just do that right?
1. Let's work under the logic leap that she had a purpose with that date in mind for a reason/goal. If we don't then the answer is simply, "Because any time was better than where they currently were."
2. So what was her reason/goal? She knew that Hiyori needed to accomplish something in that time period. Did Toki know that Hiyori needed to meet Ace in order to have guided Luffy in the right direction? If so, that's why she would have picked an earlier date.
aka the future after the 10 defeats kaido and take back wano? (the chosen date)
Not if her daughter needed to play a role in all of it like guiding Luffy, bringing together the team via her dango abilities, or plays a role in the defeat of Kaido herself.
Already we've seen how she's been able to control animals in favor of the alliance so even now her existence has played a role in the ultimate defeat of Kaido.
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Enel's design is based on Ganesha. Doesn't mean he's going to have a Ganesha fruit.
That's the first time I heard this. I thought he was only based on Raijin.
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Actually that perfectly illustrates my point. He's not just Ganesha.
He's an amalgamation of ideas. Just like Weevil isn't just an elephant.
Do a search for 'Ganesha reclining' then check out Enel reclining:
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/onepiece/images/a/ad/Enel_Anime_Infobox.png/revision/latest?cb=20180911193407It's also why Enel has such large earlobes in addition to suggesting wisdom and also part of the influence of the design on his final form.
And probably why he likes fruit (in addition to the 'wisdom theme') including the now infamous 'Banana me'.
This is Oda. Layer upon layer of inspiration in his best creations.
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As we have an established horned giant humanoid species, I don't think the potential for that is strong (i.e. dragon that ate oni fruit). I think some people are just too unwilling to let go of their idea. But hey, anything can happen.
It's just weird to me how several characters were making a big fuss about Kaido not being human. Like if it mattered in a world of Dwarves, Minks, Fishman and other humanoid races to make that distinction.
And I don't remember humanoid Zoan users ever being referred to as "creatures" before, as if Zoan consumption stripped them of their humanness or something. Chopper on the other hand is not considered human, despite his fruit very much turning him into a humanoid being (thus the idea that Kaido is like Chopper, a creature/animal who consumed a mythical hito fruit)Why do you think Oda is treating Kaido like that? Only to hype his strength and myth as an "unkillable" being?
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Good question. It's a careful deliberate choice by Oda to phrase things how he did.
I've been riding this train for a few years now but it comes down to, as a man, WB was the strongest man of his time.
That is to say WB -afawk- as a human, was the strongest human male.
Kaido, as Kaido. As a human. Was not stronger that WB.
That's it.
There wasn't any big meaning behind it besides that WB as WB would probably best Kaido as Kaido in an arm-wrestling competition ^o^
I refuse to enter the realm of strategy or body size, etc. because those are meant for fan debate by design and the conclusion can go any which way.
But what the characters say stand on their own.
As a 'dragon' Kaido could probably overpower WB.That's why he's the 'strongest creature'.
edit:
Also, found that post from the official site where I made all those predictions back in 2014* that was grossly truncated.
It's in Japanese but I'll do a quick translation of my own work:
https://one-piece.com/special/greg/detail/20140122_0127.html
カイドウと侍の関係？
な、なるほど！拙者、遂に分かったかも！あの時の錦えもんの反応！原作の６９８話、船上でローの話を聞いてた錦えもんが突然『んな！！！』とビックリした理由。隣に龍に変化したモモの助にビビったと思ったけど下のコマでモモの助を見てからまたびびった。勝手になんかおかしいと思ってたけどアニメを見てその理由がとても分かりやすかった！『カイドウ』の名前を聞いたから驚いたのね！そして必死にその驚きをごまかそうとしてた錦えもんが怪しい！元々３人の侍とモモの助がゾウを目指してた理由はもしかしてあの最強生物のカイドウと関係があるのかな？！
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A Relationship Between Kaido and the Samurai?
Yes, I believe that one has finally figured it out! Remember Kinnemon's reaction from that time!? I think I know why in Chapter 698 of the comic -while listening to Law- Kinnemon was suddenly shocked. At first I thought that maybe he was shocked at Momonosuke having changed into a dragon but as you read along, you'll notice that he expressed shock at Momonosuke in an entirely different panel. I always felt that this was a bit strange but seeing it in the animation has confirmed my suspicions. They were surprised at the name 'Kaido'! Not only that, they were sweating bullets trying to cover up that surprise which is even more suspicious!Is it possible that the reason the three samurai and Momonosuke were headed for Zou had something to do with the 'strongest creature' Kaido?!
–----------------If I can track down the uncut version I'll post that as well but I wasn't very careful with my early files.
*(technically December 2013 but it was published in Jan. 2014)
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Interesting, I thought that was just Oda's way to chicken out of a "who's more powerful" declaration, because he likes to avoid those with a passion. It's really rare that he declares how someone is clearly weaker or stronger than someone else, especially within a group or "tier". In general it feels like 95% of all clashes either end in a stalemate or because of circumstances deciding the battle.
That said, my take on it was always that
Whitebeard is the strongest man (post-death it's Shanks, soon to be Blackbeard)
Big Mom is the strongest woman
Kaido is the strongest creatureThis way he established all the Emperors as the pinnacle of power through various titles, but without making it clear who would win a fight. At least between the three old-timers WB, Kaido and BM.
But I can imagine your scenario as well. Surely this will be addressed when we get the inevitable Kaido / Shanks flashback.
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The important thing to remember (and what I've deliberately avoided) is that it ignores strategy, position, etc.
You can absolutely have someone be 'stronger' but best another.
Oda's policy has always been 'who yells strongest wins' not 'who yells strongest is the strongest'.
This is why I stay out of 'who would beat who' debates because by design, until the author states otherwise, they can go any way.
At least for OP.
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Also, if Kaido was supposed to be a base dragon instead of a base Oars/Person, then compare his human form to chopper.
Chopper's transformed state, meaning his heavy point/human form looks barelly like that, compare that to Kaku's full giraffe, or Pierre's half horse, who also look bizarre. Zoans leave much to be desired on the full transformed state, and we only trully notice with chopper because he's starkly non humans to humans. No zoan would pass as their fullt ransformation creature, tbh out of:
Chopper, Dalton, Pierre, Ms Christmass, Pell, Chaka, Kaku, Lucci, Jabura, the boa sisters, the mino-guards, all the random zoans on the war, Sengoku, Drake, Smiley, Momo, the tontata bug warriors, Lasso, Kaidoh and Jack, only Funkfreed passed as an animal for any ammount of time.
In fact, chopper has been the only one who even tried to blend in, and failed.
3DS FC: 0516-7666-3837
SW-4128-8032-0729
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I think you're confusing their hybrid mid-transformations for the full transformations. We've seen Dalton go full bison, Lucchi go full jaguar, and Kaku go full giraffe for instance, and X-Drake go full TRex and they look entirely like their animal. If they would actually fool other animals we don't really know, but they look like it completely. They just never keep the forms because there's not much advantage to it, when the hybrid form gets working hands but all the physical bonuses.
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[/hide]Why Chopper doesn't look entirely human may just be because he IS an animal to start with and he hasn't practiced it enough. After Luffy accepted him as part of the family, he embraced that he doesn't have to be a human to fit in and be loved, and actually worked to amplify his "monster" stuff during the timeskip to get stronger. But even still his agile form looks more human than his pre-skip arm or jump forms did. And now that he has Zou residents to call family, even a straight up sister, he really doesn't need to worry about it.
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I mixed up Kaku's square nose form with his full Giraffe form, so that one doesn't stand.
But then going with training, then Kaku looking giraffish enough to fool us, while Chopper might had a trauma preventing him going full human, and latter just unneeded, shouldn't Kaku also look weird?
In the end no Zoan yet has been meant to fool us into "yep, this isn't animal x, no plottwist! this was animal y or person the whole time!" except Funkfreed.
3DS FC: 0516-7666-3837
SW-4128-8032-0729
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I mixed up Kaku's square nose form with his full Giraffe form, so that one doesn't stand.
But then going with training, then Kaku looking giraffish enough to fool us, while Chopper might had a trauma preventing him going full human, and latter just unneeded, shouldn't Kaku also look weird?
In the end no Zoan yet has been meant to fool us into "yep, this isn't animal x, no plottwist! this was animal y or person the whole time!" except Funkfreed.
Probably would be more effective if they weren't wearing clothes in their animal form…
Dalton looks perfectly Ox-like to me, while the only thing standing out for Lucci is the scar on his back.
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Chopper transformng into a real boy feels too different from his fuzzy coughs teddy bear *coughs aestethic so I cant see such a transformation in the future. Alsothe fact that he's 17 but in the post timeskip he just acts like a real smart 6 year old, so him turning into a 17 year old dude would be jarring .
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Yeah, but you aren't a bison or a leopard, I can't recognize different birds of the same species unless I memorize patterns, and as far as I know all golden retrievers look the same.
The point I'm trying to make is that Chopper looks non-human to us because we as humans know that ammount of hair is not a human characteristic. Just like Piere didn't loose his polkadot pattern as a full horse (If we even saw him as a full horse, I think that we only saw hybrid..) or how Smiley was still a giant poisonous blob of poison slime instead of a propper axotol.
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(…)
1. Let's work under the logic leap that she had a purpose with that date in mind for a reason/goal. If we don't then the answer is simply, "Because any time was better than where they currently were."
2. So what was her reason/goal? She knew that Hiyori needed to accomplish something in that time period. Did Toki know that Hiyori needed to meet Ace in order to have guided Luffy in the right direction? If so, that's why she would have picked an earlier date.
Not if her daughter needed to play a role in all of it like guiding Luffy, bringing together the team via her dango abilities, or plays a role in the defeat of Kaido herself.
Already we've seen how she's been able to control animals in favor of the alliance so even now her existence has played a role in the ultimate defeat of Kaido.
Glad you kinda Support the Tama=Hiyori-idea.
Toki basically said:"In 20 yrs, Shogun, you are screw'd!" So in fact, if she dropped Hiyori a few years earlier, she should be safe, cause Orochi just anticipates the certain 20th year.
Another hint is that Tama talks the same stuff as Momo about being fed and how she is too proud to let anyone feed her. Other People in Kuri would give their last Shirt for Food. So that kinda indicates as well that she could be from a different time.
Question for me is: If Toki Chose those timepoints on purpose, she must have better visions about the future than even Katakuri. Or her DF helps her getting clear visions of the future.
Speakin of Enel, he also used his DF-ability to observe all of Skypiea (pardon, he used his ability to enhance his CoO).EDIT: On a sidenote, don't you think that one Silhouette (of Kawamatsu or Denjiro) Looks like the very first Silhouette we got from Kanjuuro?
I guess it was a last-Minute-decision by Oda to give that design to Denjiro or Kawamatsu instead of Kanjuuro. -
Right, we know very little about her power (other than it only goes forward) but similar to Enel's fruit ability boosting his CoO, if Toki was a BADASS CoO-user (like her son Momonosuke who likely inherited such an ability) her fruit ability may have allowed her CoO to transcend time as well, especially if she awakened it (unless her awakening had to do with sending other people through time)
EDIT: On a sidenote, don't you think that one Silhouette (of Kawamatsu or Denjiro) Looks like the very first Silhouette we got from Kanjuuro?
I guess it was a last-Minute-decision by Oda to give that design to Denjiro or Kawamatsu instead of Kanjuuro.Yeah, it sure does. It's not like Oda to make an artistic error that large related to the main story (but it's happened before) so personally I think that within that span of the chap's release and the tank release, he came up with a much better idea of how to use a given character or developed a design he felt fit better and ran with that.
As we know, just because Oda doesn't choose to use a design somewhere, doesn't mean it won't pop up again in another form a la Shiki's ship's wheel which was originally part of Kuma's design.
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(…)
As we know, just because Oda doesn't choose to use a design somewhere, doesn't mean it won't pop up again in another form a la Shiki's ship's wheel which was originally part of Kuma's design.I'm still waiting for the use of that shizo priest-design with the Psycho-look (he was also on the shichi-sketch-page iirc).
About Kaidou I gotta say: I can't imagine this guy Held in chains in ID like Doffy after his defeat, so (if we can take his death-wish seriously) killing him could be fulfilling his dream. On the other Hand I can't imagine Luffy to deliver a killing-blow (power-wise, yeah, but from a Moral note, no). This could be BB's doing without putting the filth of a killing-spree onto Luffy or Momo. Plus I really wanna see now BB with this Dragon Zoan.
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YUP!
From his intro chapter I put my foot in the ground that Oda was setting him up to die.And the cool part is, he's going to have a side of him that we 'understand' so it will kinda suck that he dies.
But yeah, Oda is setting him up to die because if he's killed by BB, BB is largely clear to be the big bad and the strongest man being (creature or otherwise).
HOWEVER* The issue of Rox(Rocks?) throws a bit of a new twist to what I originally envisioned.
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YUP!
From his intro chapter I put my foot in the ground that Oda was setting him up to die.And the cool part is, he's going to have a side of him that we 'understand' so it will kinda suck that he dies.
But yeah, Oda is setting him up to die because if he's killed by BB, BB is largely clear to be the big bad and the strongest man being (creature or otherwise).
HOWEVER* The issue of Rox(Rocks?) throws a bit of a new twist to what I originally envisioned.
Totally! I also have the Feeling that by the Moment he dies, Kaidou will somehow have grown to us (not as much as Sr. Pink, but you know). And with Orochi around, we still have a more "assholic" villain around alá Spandam or the CDs.
With Linlin's flashback we also learnt more about her ambitions and that she wasn't evil in the first place. I could totally see sth similar planned for Kaidou.
He could really be the outcome of an Experiment of crossing the oars-like giants with humans. This would give him some Kind of a "Frankenstein's Monster"-vibe.
There have been really big guys in the fridge of PH. And we saw a giant skull shortly after entering the fire-side. Could be just Details to make PH scarier, or These Details really have a purpose.And it is Kind of an iron rule for the hero not to kill (disney's Little mermaid influenced Oda as well and we know Disney's policy about the deaths of villains: they all die because of their own fault, preferedly falling down). BB will pull a BB again and "pulls the Trigger" on a weakened Kaidou.
On the Rocks-Thing I don't have any clue of what is awaiting us. I can envision Shakky and Miss Bakkin being a part of this Group, that's all.
But the Rocks is movie-content anyway, isn't it? Though I'd love to see a Canon-esque character like Shiki again (with his very own chapter). -
People really think Rox (Rocks?) is purely movie material without being introduced as a movie villain in promotional material first like Shiki was in the trailer after movie 9??
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People really think Rox (Rocks?) is purely movie material without being introduced as a movie villain in promotional material first like Shiki was in the trailer after movie 9??
Garp grinned like "Oh, Rocks is movie-material, just wait, OP-fans…" at the end of that page.
Back-to-serious: There was a talk about a lurking legend. Wonder if there is an old geezer that Held BM and Kaidou together and how he fits into the main Story.
IMO it'd be cool if there were more legendary pirates out there in the NW, not just the Yonkou or former Roger-pirates. -
That would be incongruent with the world.
Anyone without ambition or power was under someone else or didn't get this far.
Anyone who challenged the top and failed is in the goverment's payroll, in impell down or dead. Or in Canon Limbo like Shiki.
Anyone who challenged the top and succeded swaped places with the previous big honcho.
Like let's suppose, the guy who was the 4th emperor before Shanks, asuming that it didn't happen like Luffy and it wasn't "the three emperors" back then, and it's a guy because Oda.
If this person existed, and was ousted by Shanks, him existing would make the world a more lived and interesting place, him having a role beyond a flashback or a cameo? Eh, that was Shanks story, we have the guy that Shanks could not beat ahead, and those who are as strong as him in the pipeline now, do we need his sloppy seconds?
The thing is that going into hidding in this pirate world is not going into stasis, but leaving the boat in a river and wanting to get back to it after a while, it is way downstream already. Look at Moriah who was supposed to be the rival of a giant fucking dragon, if we believe that he was the Mihawk to his Shanks, the Shiki to his Roger, then there had to be a sharp decline of power by not challenging himself.
And then there is the ultimate equalizer, time itself, Whitebeard can sink islands, but I doubt he could have survived a short Jog.
tldr; Beyond the impel down escapees, and another super Raileigh case, don't hold your breath for alive old legends.
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I actually didn't consider Rocxks could be a movie-related thing. I hope not. Something feels a bit off with it though… the way it was introduced, it seems like that it could be a current or former group of powerful people (pirates). Both Kaido and BM were most likely part of that group, as it has been revealed to us that those two are acquinted from the past - that makes sense.
So the thing that feels off about it is, if the leader/captain of the group is still around he should probably be really old, no? Age doesn't necessarily mean all that much in OP, but nevertheless, still an old-timer. Hearing about him and that group of powerful people this late into the story doesn't feel right. If they were that powerful then Oda could have foreshadowed it better (although if this is the case, he probably came up with the idea after the fact that the world's power balance had been established).
But maybe they won't play a part in the story to come; maybe it was only brought up so that we would know that Kaido and BM knew each other. Still... the chekov's gun rule...
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Oda actually has several Rox threads of foreshadowing available.
It's whether he decides to use them or not.
1. Most commonly referenced is Shakky who was supposedly an active pirate around that time.
2. Gloriosa was supposedly in love with someone when she was younger.
3. Recently Bakkin's involvement in piracy was around then.
4. Perhaps most interestingly (and largely undiscussed) is the mysterious destruction of Boodles' original town around the time Rox is believed to have been active.
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And it is Kind of an iron rule for the hero not to kill (disney's Little mermaid influenced Oda as well and we know Disney's policy about the deaths of villains: they all die because of their own fault, preferedly falling down). BB will pull a BB again and "pulls the Trigger" on a weakened Kaidou.
No it's not, especially not in SHonen manga. Oda has a pretty hard no-death stance for his own reasons, but you look at even something like Dragonball and Goku killed tons of guys, and Naruto killed plenty of enemies at the hero's doing. Going a bit further back lots of 80's shonen manga had murdering heroes, though that's definitely pulled back a bit over the decades.
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Naruto himself has never actually killed anybody
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About Rox: If he's retired, then he has to have aged more than Raighleigh now. If he was captured it is his best chance to be relevant with the escapees. Maybe he has a boat or a country, and everyone knows but no one dares, but at that point you took yourself out of the global stage
Thing is, Kuro. Luffy and Oda said, pirates retiring are losers.
Shonen jump protagonists kills:
! The Jojos go from NO KILLING, to I'll rearange your face but you'll live, to Luffy's "I'm just punching you way too much" to DO NOT KILL EVER, to fuck you die garbage, to "well I'm already in jail so…", to "Life is meaningless to me"
! While the saints tore through Hades, Poseidon and their own constelation themed compatriots with their bare hands, Seiya himself probably was 2th lowest in the kill count of the main 5 characters, as he got Blueno style figths, Perona style fights or the final boss who he talked into suicide or made Athena seal them.
! Goku stoped killing, HARD after training with Kamisama, only Killing Yakon (who more suicided against him) and Buu.
! Naruto gave death wounds to Kazuzu, killed the pains, who were ninja zombies, and coherced the final one into suicide, and after that I don't think that he really killed anybody.
! Yusuke didn't dare to kill humans, and killed like less than 10 named demons.
! Gon has a bunch of almost human beings in his ledger, but his is more focused and pronunced than the rest, except Light or Gintoki.
! In all of Hoshin engi, while a bunch of people get "slayed" by the protagonist, no one trully dies, as they ascended or something.
! Shaman King, Yoh only starts killing after like 8 people learn to resurrect people. This one still counts as WSJ series, but the kills knowing that they are going to be revived don't.
! Yami Yugi only mindbreaks, or sets up suicide games before losing himself to duel monsters.
! Light is Light.
! Bakuman kids are only killing themselves.
! Neuro kills one person, maybe a few others in "self" defense.
! Korosensei kills ONE person after becoming a teacher.
! Toriko destroyed ecosystems, but had a human kill count around the number of hands he has had (it is more than two, but less than 10)
! Ichigo was a mess, going from I won't kill anybody, to I'll do anything to save my friends, to "do a killing wound on me to make this a fair fight", to I killed a man and I liked it, to Flabergasted Ichigo face arc.
! Kenshin (obligatory dirty glance at Watsuki) for better or worse keept his policy. Expontaneous combustion doesn't count as a kill.
! Gintoki has a surprisingly large number of mook kills for a comedy manga, some gintama arcs suddenly become a musou game in the middle. Named characters kill is around 10.
! Oga, Medaka, Koga/Osamu, Deku even with their Demon/Meta/AlienKillingWeapons/Superstrength are at 0. School manga tends to keep this set.
! I should really read Fist of the north star to get an 80's perspective.
! In order of Kills it probably is, including before the start of the series:
Light
The ex soldiers: Gintoki, Kenshin
Korosensei
Kenshiro
Seiya, Yami Yugi
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About Rox: If he's retired, then he has to have aged more than Raighleigh now. If he was captured it is his best chance to be relevant with the escapees. Maybe he has a boat or a country, and everyone knows but no one dares, but at that point you took yourself out of the global stage
Thing is, Kuro. Luffy and Oda said, pirates retiring are losers.
I think there is a distinction to be made between someone like Kuro retiring because he can't handle the infamy he's racked up and someone like Zeff or Rayleigh.
Retiring due to age, injury, the loss of a captain/crew, or simple recognition that your time is at an end is vastly different than doing so to run away and hide from your past crimes.
