I've missed that gif, and I never realized.
Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !
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Yeah W7/EL are one story.
Call that story what you like but that's what it is.
Re. villain discussion. This is important.
B/C Oda didn't know what his villain looked like yet, doesn't mean he didn't know what his villain's function was. This is very common and an important difference. Oda hasn't said he didn't know the role he wanted the villain(s) to play, simply that he wasn't sure who would fulfill that role.
Good point to bring up for clarification!
There was a moment in history that we could have final W7 duel with Evil Lulu and Mozu.
3DS FC: 0516-7666-3837
SW-4128-8032-0729
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Evil Lulu
Way too overpowered! Just the mere thought of how he could kill me instantly with spawing his hair of doom at the right places gives me totally the chill!
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Also, there's no doubt in my mind that it makes sense from a point of simplicity and sales to break apart certain arcs if, for nothing less, the simplicity referring to very specific parts of the story.
This is why one might see 'arcs' being applied to specific islands.
But please don't think that there is any sort of definitive rule on the official end of what does/doesn't determine an arc.
That is to say:
1 island = 1 arc
Several arcs including a common theme all determine a saga, etc.When we start applying rules to it, it doesn't make any sense because there are always exceptions which make it messy.
I'll admit that sagas are definitely a nice way of encompassing everything. Twin Capes/Whiskey Peak/Little Garden/Drum etc. being part of the overarching BW 'saga' sounds excellent and works quite well for most of those, but Drum (besides Ace) really is its own story that happens to appear in the middle of the saga. I'm not saying that breaks the rules, I'm saying it's messy and why we shouldn't be so stoic with determining what does/doesn't constitute a single goal in the narrative.
Consider that, in Japanese, the same word refers to BW 'arc' Drum 'arc' and even the Paradise 'arc'.
There's nothing sacred when it comes to making a single story within the series easy to reference.
Are W7/Sea Train/EL all part of the same directly continuous strongly cohesive story? Yes.
Tottoland is still a pleasant sojourn compared to that monster or DR.
And not that Kai has suggested this, but including the mention of Greenbit above, if we're really going to say one island = one arc, whew, how many arcs are we on in Tottoland now?
We clearly have Arcs and Sagas. The editors literally said we're in the Yonko Saga. And this is the WCI arc. A saga is not a fanmade term. The editors use it.
!
And to get back to the original point, this is the 2nd longest arc in One Piece. Zou-WCI is no different than Water 7-Ennies Lobby. The story with Big Mom started a long time ago, with the Tamatebako, continued with Caesar stealing funds, and in Zou, Capone shot Pekoms, and "kidnapped" Sanji, which led to SHs retrieving him. That ending was the exact same thing as W7.
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@Kai:
We clearly have Arcs and Sagas. The editors literally said we're in the Yonko Saga. And this is the WCI arc. A saga is not a fanmade term. The editors use it.
And to get back to the original point, this is the 2nd longest arc in One Piece. Zou-WCI is no different than Water 7-Ennies Lobby. The story with Big Mom started a long time ago, with the Tamatebako, continued with Caesar stealing funds, and in Zou, Capone shot Pekoms, and "kidnapped" Sanji, which led to SHs retrieving him. That ending was the exact same thing as W7.
Come on stop being stubborn please. As someone as said, in the interview you quoted, Oda himself says Merry funerals are part of Water 7 arc.
Also didn’t Greg said above that japanese use the same word for all those chapters separations ?As for the arc length, it’s clear that there has been an inflation the more the story progress so the interest in comparing current arc to pre timeskip ones is almost null
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We clearly have Arcs and Sagas. The editors literally said we're in the Yonko Saga. And this is the WCI arc. A saga is not a fanmade term. The editors use it.
Yeah, as Kdom reiterated, they literally use the same exact word 編 when talking about what fans have called arcs/sagas. If we're to follow their nomenclature then we're in the:
新世界編, 四皇編, ホールケーキアイランド編
New World Arc, Yonkou Arc, WCI Arc.
Which in and of itself is still a part of the DR/PH/Wano 'arcs'
I know how badly you want it to fit together under a set of rules but the reality is, they call it whatever makes it easiest to refer to.
I wouldn't argue that they can't be broken into 'arcs/sagas' but it's not as easy as following a set of rules and it would get very messy with sojourns that are only tangentially-related to on-going arcs at times.
tldr: It's a really messy business and the effort comes down to making a part of the story easy to advertise/understand.
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Yeah one thing I've found from my own looking and talking it out is that everyone is gonna have their own interpretation of where the story is broken into digestible chunks and what counts as a storyline being wrapped up, muddled further by official sources saying contradictory things, using the same term for arc and saga and English and Japanese official sources saying different things again. It's one thing to mention the island a thing happened on in discussion so people know what you're talking about, but when it comes to trying actually block the series down into satisfying pieces of story, or recommend the best possible starting and stopping points to a new reader who might need to take breaks but not want to do so in the middle of a story, things get harder and more argumentative. Not to mention any 'best arc' or 'arc ranking' thread, where some people are going to be taking each arc standalone and others are going to give more weight to ones only made great by their context in a larger story, or because of the flow on plot with the arcs on either side of them. And the ongoing debates over Viz's arc banners on the volume covers.
When I break down the series, I tend to be thinking of it like, 'what if I was making this larger story into a series of novels, where would I cut it so each "book" (saga) of the series has a beginning, middle, and satisfying finale.' This can work well for things like Punk Hazard/Dressrosa (the Donquixote Empire Saga?), where we can acknowledge that something worthy of being a storyline's finale has happened, but because we know it's one volume of a larger series, it's fine that that is the end, even with the split up crew and the larger conflict they've started with Kaido going unresolved. (And yeah, the Donquixote Empire volume of One Piece's hypothetical novel series would absolutely be its Feast for Crows or its Crossroads of Twilight but that's neither here nor there.) It works far less well for East Blue and the first half of Baroque Works, where the mass of smaller, less interconnected storylines result in an awkward stop and start kind of pacing when you try to make those sagas into isolated stories. Ultimately it works for me more often than it doesn't though.
Part of this line of thinking comes from my own personal affection for long novel series and goals to write one, and part of it comes it comes from trying to make such an enormous series digestible when talking about it or recommending it to friends. I'm probably alone in thinking this way, but that's fine. One Piece is a sixteen-and-a-half thousand page series that's still going. That's more pages and more content than the mind can even hold, and we're all just trying to break this behemoth down into parts so it can be something we're actually able to interpret, and that's going to be different for every reader.
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Come on stop being stubborn please. As someone as said, in the interview you quoted, Oda himself says Merry funerals are part of Water 7 arc.
Yeah, it's part of the Water 7 Saga.
http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/Water_7_Saga
I don't really know any Japanese so I can't comment on the semantics of what words they use. Wikia lists Saga as "hen". The difference would be implied from the context obviously. The Yonko Saga we're currently in can't apply to a certain island, so editors are obviously referring to a "bundle of islands".
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At least Punk Hazard and Dressrosa always seemed to me like the New World equivalent of the Baroque Works Saga and in my opinion form one complete saga. Doflamingo and his underlings play a similiar role there like Crocodile and his underlings from Whiskey Peak to Alabasta and the story clearly goes into another territory (the Yonko) after Dressrosa is finished.
As for the other arcs, maybe it would be good to categorize Zou and Totland as one saga and Reverie and Wano as another one? Though this may present some difficulties since Totland is more shown as some kind of unexpected (if long) stepover before Wano.
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@Kai:
Yeah, it's part of the Water 7 Saga.
http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/Water_7_Saga
I don't really know any Japanese so I can't comment on the semantics of what words they use. Wikia lists Saga as "hen". The difference would be implied from the context obviously. The Yonko Saga we're currently in can't apply to a certain island, so editors are obviously referring to a "bundle of islands".
And who decided to name it that way ? The wiki is nice to retrieve infos, but in no ways it can be taken as a a definitive answer to such subjective questions.
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@Kai:
Yeah, it's part of the Water 7 Saga.
http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/Water_7_Saga
I don't really know any Japanese so I can't comment on the semantics of what words they use. Wikia lists Saga as "hen". The difference would be implied from the context obviously. The Yonko Saga we're currently in can't apply to a certain island, so editors are obviously referring to a "bundle of islands".
Just like Greg said some posts before, saga, arc and whatever you want to call them are all the same word in japanese: hen. Yonko-hen is a term used for hype. It's supposed to tell readers "Hey, guys, we finally defeated Doflamingo. About damn time, right? Next up, the Straw Hats are going to fight the four emperors!! Get excited!!"
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Greg, these last few days, I've had this idea that I know deep down is pretty ridiculous and that Oda almost certainly won't go there, but I still can't let go of it. And I'm hoping that you (or some other good poster) can logic it out of me. So here it goes. Does Luffy Have to beat Katakuri? For clarification, by "beat" I mean defeat in a standard 1-on-1 format, that ends with Katakuri decisively KO'd and Luffy exhausted at worst (ala vs. Lucci). Katakuri can still "lose" or "fail" in any other way, but not necessarily in such a straightforward manner. Even a double knockout would be okay, just any scenario that doesn't end with Luffy "clearly" beating him.
You and I both agree that one of the most important things to Oda is writing a story that's "interesting." The way I see it, Luffy beating Katakuri tells the audience going into Wano that he is strong enough to fight against more or less all of Kaidou's forces (though he'll still need help with Kaidou himself). And therefore, any encounter between Luffy and the Beast Pirates has us already assuming that he'll probably win.
On the other hand, If Luffy d_oesn't_ beat Katakuri, then we go into any fight between him and the high ranking members with much more uncertainty. And the way I see it a Luffy we're uncertain about, is much more interesting than one that we can immediately put our trust in.
Here are some preemptive counterargements:
"But Oda doesn't write fights like that!:" WCI is already a formula breaking arc, which is set to end with Big Mom undefeated and an agreement between them reached, and a main character besides Luffy (Sanji) being the center of it all. The only bit of "traditional Oda" that I don't think will change is his stance on character death.
"But Luffy is going to learn new technique this fight:" Yes I agree. By the end of this he'll either have learned or started to learn awakening or future haki. So? Learning a new skill doesn't automatically mean victory.
"But Sanji said otherwise in chapter 884:" I'm admittedly not sure what VIZ or the original Japanese said, but in Jaimini's scans at least Sanji said "It would be [Katakuri's] first loss." Not necessarily the same as Luffy beating him.
"But Luffy said that he would beat him in chapter 886:" He constantly said he'd save Ace, and look how that went. He also said that he would fight/take on/beat Big Mom, but that doesn't look like it's happening either. Just because the main character says something, doesn't mean it will come true.
Those are my thoughts. Hoping to hear back from someone.
Originally Posted by MrBits
Place your bets. Is [AlphaMale/AlphaBro, an obvious ban evader] going to get banned again today, tomorrow, or in a week?
Originally Posted by AlphaBro
okay let's bet . Would love to see your losing face next week !
An actual bet and conversation on the Chapter 905 thread, literally an hour before he got banned again.
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He's guaranteed to get him on his back. Anything further than that is up in the air imo.
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What is interesting will be not if Luffy can take on Kaido top brass. Because from what we have seen so far he probably could, but if any of them is tricky to deal with he might lose.
What will be interesting is how many of the people following Luffy can keep up until the final fight with Kaido.
This can go two ways. Or Luffy gets to punch Katakuri really hard to the point he opens his mouth as wide as when he was eating donuts. Katakuri gets up, but its time to escape, so Luffy leaves.
Or mochi boy gets knocked out cold. At the start of the arc you had many confrontations skipped. Like most of Cracker fight or Brooke vs Big Mom. We got to see more of Brooke versus Big Mom in a situation where he didn't have to deal with Mama's multitude of attacks. Luffy is going to overcome, by himself, only one commander. That should suffice in terms of the bigger picture which is escaping an emperor's territory.
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@Sibersk:
He's guaranteed to get him on his back. Anything further than that is up in the air imo.
Agreed. He'll definitely get at least some momentum.
@K.:
This can go two ways. Or Luffy gets to punch Katakuri really hard to the point he opens his mouth as wide as when he was eating donuts. Katakuri gets up, but its time to escape, so Luffy leaves.
I don't see escape as a possibility. Luffy wants to fight to some sort of conclusion, otherwise he would have just left him trapped in the mirror world. That, and the fight has been going on for 10+ chapters and Oda hates anticlimaxes. Somebody is going to get KO'd by the end of this.
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@Kai:
Yes, because there is always a degree of incompleteness in every arc. No arc ever fully resolves all the branches it instigates.
That shouldn't matter at all. The type of incompleteness I am talking about refers to scenarios like going from Jaya to Skypeia. I am not connecting every arc after Baratie together because All Blue hasn't been discovered.
Haven't you heard that a set of arcs is called a Saga.
I have, as others already pointed out, that's merely a classification suited for this language. In Korean stories you will see many smaller arcs that sum up a bigger arc. Considering the quality of the sources we are putting forward.
http://towerofgod.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_Arcs
Part 1 would be, Saga 1 in this case. Part 2 Workshop Battle Arc would be…mmm Saga 2 Workshop Battle Saga?
And in East Blue saga all were standalone arcs without any link between them except for Baratie and Arlong arc.
The relation would be that it was a recruitment arc. The formation of the team before the grand adventure. I am not sure if it matters if we call it the Recruitment Saga.
@Big:
Thematically Long Ring Island definitely belongs to the greater "Water 7"-Saga. The thing with the ship in need of being repaired, a carpenter as an addition to the crew being mentioned, Usopp's group getting defeated in the first round of the Davy back Fight (and Usopp suffering because of that) and of course meeting Aokiji who introduces Nico Robin's past and mentions Luffy's grandfather many important plot points who are going to become important later at Water 7 are introduced there.
I just don't see why is it so important to classify exactly how all these things are grouped together.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
I don't see escape as a possibility. Luffy wants to fight to some sort of conclusion, otherwise he would have just left him trapped in the mirror world. That, and the fight has been going on for 10+ chapters and Oda hates anticlimaxes. Somebody is going to get KO'd by the end of this.
The knockout can last until Luffy finds a mirror to go. It wouldn't be time for Luffy to escape, as he already ~beat~ Katakuri. It is just that the Sunny is still being chased so its time to get on the ship and leave. Anyways, that was just as far as I would compromise for those that don't want to see Katakuri bullied.
I think that at least we are getting another King Kong Gun. Maybe King Kong Organ.
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Greg, these last few days, I've had this idea that I know deep down is pretty ridiculous and that Oda almost certainly won't go there, but I still can't let go of it. And I'm hoping that you (or some other good poster) can logic it out of me. So here it goes. Does Luffy Have to beat Katakuri? For clarification, by "beat" I mean defeat in a standard 1-on-1 format, that ends with Katakuri decisively KO'd and Luffy exhausted at worst (ala vs. Lucci). Katakuri can still "lose" or "fail" in any other way, but not necessarily in such a straightforward manner. Even a double knockout would be okay, just any scenario that doesn't end with Luffy "clearly" beating him.
You and I both agree that one of the most important things to Oda is writing a story that's "interesting." The way I see it, Luffy beating Katakuri tells the audience going into Wano that he is strong enough to fight against more or less all of Kaidou's forces (though he'll still need help with Kaidou himself). And therefore, any encounter between Luffy and the Beast Pirates has us already assuming that he'll probably win.
On the other hand, If Luffy d_oesn't_ beat Katakuri, then we go into any fight between him and the high ranking members with much more uncertainty. And the way I see it a Luffy we're uncertain about, is much more interesting than one that we can immediately put our trust in.
Here are some preemptive counterargements:
"But Oda doesn't write fights like that!:" WCI is already a formula breaking arc, which is set to end with Big Mom undefeated and an agreement between them reached, and a main character besides Luffy (Sanji) being the center of it all. The only bit of "traditional Oda" that I don't think will change is his stance on character death.
"But Luffy is going to learn new technique this fight:" Yes I agree. By the end of this he'll either have learned or started to learn awakening or future haki. So? Learning a new skill doesn't automatically mean victory.
"But Sanji said otherwise in chapter 884:" I'm admittedly not sure what VIZ or the original Japanese said, but in Jaimini's scans at least Sanji said "It would be [Katakuri's] first loss." Not necessarily the same as Luffy beating him.
"But Luffy said that he would beat him in chapter 886:" He constantly said he'd save Ace, and look how that went. He also said that he would fight/take on/beat Big Mom, but that doesn't look like it's happening either. Just because the main character says something, doesn't mean it will come true.
Those are my thoughts. Hoping to hear back from someone.
I really like the point you've raised here. It's an important one.
Whether privately or publicly, Luffy needs to show that he has bested Katakuri. A few weeks back we didn't have a clear picture of Luffy's goal but now we know he wants to basically gain 'mantra' from this fight.
What Luffy MUST do before this fight is resolved:
-Show capability with mantra. (imma call it that for simplicity)
What Luffy could do before this fight is resolved to show superiority as related to mantra:
-Eek out a victory with a similar mantra ability.
-Show an equivalent level of mantra.
-Show a superior level of mantra.The last one there would quite OP so it would need a HEFTY balance, but even as a one-time thing, it would also be incredibly badass to see Luffy predict something that Katakuri will do/say.
So there's one MUST with three potential outcomes.
Besides actually showing that he's better than Katakuri, and the stage he's able to prove that on
(i.e. Will Katakuri lose and submit to Luffy's whim to save face? Will someone witness the loss and hold reign over that information? Or will Katakuri be beaten in a way that reveals his weakness to all of the Big Mom Pirates?) there's not much we can say for certain.Now, for that great point you raised about what this says about Luffy's power going into the next arc. First of all, awesome that you're thinking that far ahead and just like Oda! However, I urge you to go a bit deeper into the rabbit hole.
We only know Jack's bounty.
Of Jack, Queen and King, the lowest of those is, according to cards, Jack. Thus it makes perfect sense if Jack, who has a lower bounty than Katakuri is the lowest of the top three and still rests below Queen and King, meaning they could have crazy unheard of bounties which keep the stakes raised.
(yes we're all in agreement that 'bounties = power' is not true but 'bounties = prowess' usually holds up)
And just like in this arc, when Luffy was ganked by an INSANE mob which he was severely handicapped against b/c of his own declaration of staying in place and not eating, there are plenty of reasons that Luffy could have trouble with Kaidou mooks.
That said, reliance on a scanlation aside (ftr, Sanji could only have been referring to Katakuri losing to Luffy and it being his first loss ever)- I don't think the idea is crazy, it just depends how much of a spectacle it is or isn't. Luffy only need put Katakuri on his back in front of the family to actually win the emotional victory he needs and that doesn't mean pounding him into oblivion.
If things head to a happy end though, I can easily see Luffy felling Katakuri in Mirro World, that loss being witnessed, and Luffy shutting up about it to let the dude save face. That's IF things end nicely.
All of this is of course if Luffy doesn't plant Katakuri's cheekbones into the ground which, he's likely to do. Either way, the emotional victory that he must win over him must be equally crushing.
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Yeah. But even after 6 years I don't think anyone has found the secret part, or at least mentioned it.
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Yeah. But even after 6 years I don't think anyone has found the secret part, or at least mentioned it.
Now you will be getting people looking.
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I've been thinking about Pudding's future role and particularly how her relations with Sanji will be handled by Oda.
I think that we can all agree that Pudding's powers is a Chekhov's gun waiting to go off and that Pudding has yet to reach a personal resolution within her family (being bullied has yet to be fully addressed in my opinion). We can see that Pudding has become 'broken'. She fluctuates between her evil personality and her good one. However, lately we see that she's fully smitten by anything Sanji does or says. On the other hand, Sanji has been completely ignoring her which is a first for Sanji.
(The ignoring can be read in two ways: 1. Sanji is somewhat angry at her for putting his crew in danger and nearly causing the death of his captain and navigator but he can't exactly shout at her or hit her so he chose to not interact with her unless necessary. 2. Sanji had somewhat fallen in love with her and now he's conflicted about his feelings so he's not interacting with her until he sorts his mind out)
There's also the fact that both Sanji and Pudding come from similar backgrounds (bullied royalties) and it got me thinking that Oda might be laying the foundation for an end-game Sanji/Pudding relation. We previously had Viola but Pudding has been given more depth and personal time with Sanji.
I realise that Oda is going for a "Sanji is kinder than anyone" route which means he's more forgiving than most. This can be used as a reason for Sanji to 'forgive' Pudding. If Pudding's transgression was only against Sanji (just like Viola) I can see him forgiving her but I'm not comfortable if he also forgives her when Nami and Luffy were taunted by her too. Point is, I can see Oda setting something up between the two but I wouldn't be happy about that kind of direction (in my mind it that will showcase Sanji in a bad light; just a personal perception)
I wanted to know if others think that this relation is feasable option or if I'm reading too much into it. I'm happy to read previous posts about her future role if there are any.
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Greg is there any specific reason your columns in V Jump are translated/posted anywhere for english speakers?
You got your stuff on OP.com, I'm just wondering.
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Sanji is thinking of Nami right now. That's why he isn't paying attention to Pudding. Will she be the jealous type? Oda keeps focusing on Sanji and Nami and Pudding's reaction.
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Try out my first game! All feedback is welcome, enjoy and thanks. Heroine: Kiku
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Greg is there any specific reason your columns in V Jump are translated/posted anywhere for english speakers?
Can I assume you mean 'aren't translated'?
No reason other than that VJump doesn't have an English equivalent.
The website is free content accessible from anywhere (afaik) but VJump is a Japanese publication.
It's the same reason that…I dunno, there aren't Japanese Goofus and Gallant, Highlights is just an English publication.
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Can I assume you mean 'aren't translated'?
No reason other than that VJump doesn't have an English equivalent.
The website is free content accessible from anywhere (afaik) but VJump is a Japanese publication.
It's the same reason that…I dunno, there aren't Japanese Goofus and Gallant, Highlights is just an English publication.
Yeah thats what I mean, thanks.
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Yeah. But even after 6 years I don't think anyone has found the secret part, or at least mentioned it.
Oh, I didn't know it was a mystery.
The youtube code is "6-HUgzYPm9g"
6-9 is -3. So that's a -3g. Which obviously stands for GreG the Gaijin.
Which leaves us with Hugz. Y? PM Greg.
Ask Greg for hugs in private message.
Clearly.
Though that -3 instead of +3 means I might be entirely wrong and its just the buckaroo banzai thing.
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lol .
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Oh, I didn't know it was a mystery.
The youtube code is "6-HUgzYPm9g"
6-9 is -3. So that's a -3g. Which obviously stands for GreG the Gaijin.
Which leaves us with Hugz. Y? PM Greg.
Ask Greg for hugs in private message.
Clearly.
Though that -3 instead of +3 means I might be entirely wrong and its just the buckaroo banzai thing.
Ohhh… I see where I eF'd up. I went in requesting a kiss.
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Yeah. But even after 6 years I don't think anyone has found the secret part, or at least mentioned it.
I did, some time ago… But obviously I'm oblivious to why you may be attached to that song at all, to begin with...! Because very "op-like"?
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Damn, bringing out the old school avatar, Greg. As iconic as Robby's wolf.
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Defeating Katakuri before Kaido is kinda like defeating Blueno before Lucci, right ?
edit: sorry, it seems I'm replying to something that's been discussed 4days ago without quoting
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Damn, bringing out the old school avatar, Greg. As iconic as Robby's wolf.
I have no idea what you're talking about.
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Damn, bringing out the old school avatar, Greg. As iconic as Robby's wolf.
That's a Husky, uncultured subject .
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back to the roots, i'd say :D
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That's a Husky, uncultured subject .
It's a wolf.
Winning
Opportunity.
Love,
Fuzzydoggo -
Defeating Katakuri before Kaido is kinda like defeating Blueno before Lucci, right ?
edit: sorry, it seems I'm replying to something that's been discussed 4days ago without quoting
Kaidu is more like Oars or a Pacifista, there's a gang conformed specially to kick his ass.
Knowing Oda… Katakuri is more like Aokiji to Luffy. A reason to power-up to shine at hero-time.
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Hi Greg!
In the 27th LOG of One Piece Said something that he never planned that never more than half of the worst generator would survive the New World.
Do you think it is still possible that he will still will kill of some of them? Personally I think it would be easier to kill of many of them since many of them does not seem like traditional allies for the end game.
Though many believe Law will die because of his life surgery ability. -
I'm not sure if it was Greg or Robby, but I think he said that he expects all of the Supernovas to become Luffy's allies by the endgame.
Spoiler:
"Life's not about finding out which card is yours, but finding out which cards you're not."
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@Count:
I'm not sure if it was Greg or Robby, but I think he said that he expects all of the Supernovas to become Luffy's allies by the endgame.
Greg said it, but I agree.
We've already got Law and Capone working for Luffy. Kidd (and his underling Killer) X-Drake, and possibly Hawkins are going to get tangled up against Kaidou. (plus Law, obviously.) Urogue got to be witness to Kaidou jumping off a sky island so who knows with him, he might be there too.
That leaves what, Bonney, and Apoo? None of them seemed particularly antagonistic and Bonney clearly has some big story purpose with attachment to Whitebeard and Aikanu wanted her, alive. so… yeah. No reason for them not to work with Luffy by the end.
The idea of any of them dying to show the new world is dangerous is laughable though. Kidd got crazy scarred up, and everyone joined up under a emperor, and that's the extent of it. No one is dying to show "the stakes are real now", that was Ace's job.
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Apoo is Kaido's whipping boy now as seen by a Den Den Mushi in his likeness talking to "Lord Kaido" at the end of Zou, so he should be at Wano Country too.
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I think Bonney may be mentioned in Wano, due to that connection to Whitebeard, but she'll actually play her part during the Blackbeard arc/saga.
Sure, by that time most of Luffy's allies will show up again but the story still needs a fresher face with new stakes on the table.Urouge may also play his part then, imo. Oda showed him when he presented Kaido but it looked like that relationship ended there, unlike with Kidd, Hawkins and Apoo.
Oda "hypes" a bit of Urouge connecting him with Big Mom and Kaidou but only reveals his trump card, whatever it may be, during the final stretch with Blackbeard.Plus, if he uses all of the supernovas in Wano it kinda feels like putting all his eggs in the same basket, know what I mean?
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I think Bonney may be mentioned in Wano, due to that connection to Whitebeard, but she'll actually play her part during the Blackbeard arc/saga.
Sure, by that time most of Luffy's allies will show up again but the story still needs a fresher face with new stakes on the table.Urouge may also play his part then, imo. Oda showed him when he presented Kaido but it looked like that relationship ended there, unlike with Kidd, Hawkins and Apoo.
Oda "hypes" a bit of Urouge connecting him with Big Mom and Kaidou but only reveals his trump card, whatever it may be, during the final stretch with Blackbeard.Plus, if he uses all of the supernovas in Wano it kinda feels like putting all his eggs in the same basket, know what I mean?
Wait, what if Bonney is the legend Oda mentioned in Jump Festa?
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I don't think we'll have to wait Teach's arc to see Bonney be relevant.
She'll probably somehow join the fuckup in Wano. Because everyone else is pretty much heading there. I don't see her being excluded because:
-Capone will probably just follow Luffy
-Killer will find Luffy and ask him to join the alliance in order to rescue Kidd, and after rescuing him Kidd will join the alliance
-Hawkins (who came to Luffy with Killer) will do his bullshit with his cards and also join the alliance
-Apoo and Drake betray Kaido.
-Urouge is there because he has to say "wtf, ya survived that fall?"
-Bonney is somehow connected to Whitebeard (or Ace?) and she'll join the alliance alongside the Whitebeard pirates somehow.And the last "supernova" shows up at the end and executes Kaido.
But actually I wish Teach won't show up because if he does it means that FOR SOME REASON he won't start a fight against the other supernovas and their allies. And it's just gonna look like the Marineford war if he doesn't.
As for the reason why he won't fight them I wish it won't be Dragon or Shanks showing up. The latter is obvious why "zehahaha, it's too soon for us to fight yet–-- AGAIN lol !" and the other would be because it still looks Marineford's ending, and I don't see why Teach wouldn't dare to fight Dragon. I mean, it couldn't be worst than attacking the Revo base right ??I'd like to hear some opinions on that. How do you think Wano will end if Teach shows up at the end ?
I'd like to believe the final fight against Kaido will be a 1vs1. But after thinking about all the strong characters fighting alongside Luffy. I am doubting that they won't just all gang up against Kaido.
Especially since Nekomamushi and Inuarashi are gonna fight Jack. That the WB pirates will be there too ! And whatabout Luffy's fleet ???? I know some people think there won't be part of this arc--- but it would just be plain stupid if they don't.
Unless Kaido has A TON of strong allies, the team up against Kaido himself sounds unavoidable.There are people who are okay about the team up. It's good. But I'm not. I really don't wanna see all the supernovas (7 out of 11 are confirmed at this point) also including Marco, Jozu and Vista VS Kaido. (you can take two of them to take care of the remaining "calamities" if you want)
I don't want it to happen because
-it's gonna look like nothing at all. A total mess
-if it does happen, it means that Luffy isn't ready to fight a yonkou YET. Which means that he'll spend a few more years training... which is too slow ! I don't think we have time for such a break. And obviously, I don't wanna repeat the Dressrossa pattern in which Oda made people believe Luffy was equal to Law after 2years of Rayleigh (seriously, gear4 is so powerful that even Katakuri can't stop it)Also, yes I realize that all of that is based on other assumptions.
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Why would a teamup fight look like a mess? We've had teamups against Oars and Big Mom and both of those were choreographed well.
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Of course, the Kaido fight will be a huge team up-fight.
! Which will not work and then Luffy is the only fighter who'll fight in the climax aka the part that really matters.
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It's a risk. Maybe it won't look like a mess at all. But for me, it just looks like Law will teleport everyone for hours.
And what was team-up against Bigmom again ?And also I forgot to mention that it looks like something Teach would do. A coward move.
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–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Of course, the Kaido fight will be a huge team up-fight.
! Which will not work and then Luffy is the only fighter who'll fight in the climax aka the part that really matters.
Which makes the allies who have taken part in the teamup as useless in this plot. What would they achieve in the arc ? At least Law defeated Trebol ! And every single SHs had their fight before teaming up against Oz. Kaido still needs very powerful allies !
Also, Kidd who just had his ass handed by Kaido (maybe in a teamup) will not be useless this time somehow.
You know, I don't think he'll get a power-up while being tortured in jail. -
Greg said it, but I agree.
We've already got Law and Capone working for Luffy. Kidd (and his underling Killer) X-Drake, and possibly Hawkins are going to get tangled up against Kaidou. (plus Law, obviously.) Urogue got to be witness to Kaidou jumping off a sky island so who knows with him, he might be there too.
That leaves what, Bonney, and Apoo? None of them seemed particularly antagonistic and Bonney clearly has some big story purpose with attachment to Whitebeard and Aikanu wanted her, alive. so… yeah. No reason for them not to work with Luffy by the end.
The idea of any of them dying to show the new world is dangerous is laughable though. Kidd got crazy scarred up, and everyone joined up under a emperor, and that's the extent of it. No one is dying to show "the stakes are real now", that was Ace's job.
You mean they'll all have allied with him once by then or they'll all be on his side at the final war? Because if they're all there at the end god help the pacing if everyone gets a fight :ninja:
But it would be kind of cool to see kidd serve under luffy at the end after kaido smacked his arrogance out of him
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Here's the thing about using all the supernovas in Kaidouland, then what?
That's alot of pieces moving already. The Minks, Marco and Co., half the supernovas, Weevil, plus the locals from Wano.
Oda likes to keep something in the back burner. He has been using the supernovas little by little on the New World, first Law in PH and Dressrosa, then Bege in Tottoland, then we'll be jumping to 5 (Kidd, Killer, Apoo, Hawkins, Drake) in Wano. If he adds Bonney and Urouge and Bege to that then there's nothing more cooking in the background. And all that for a stepping-stone? Kaidou will be the biggest threat ever until the end of Wano, the end game is Blackbeard and the Marines, you gotta save something for that.I know there are still more pieces that will move for the end game, the Revolutionaries, Green Bull needs to show up, Crocodile, etc etc but it feels like a big shift in pacing if Oda uses all the rookies here. They'd be better put to use closer to the ending of the series.
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But can 3 supernovas really be excluded from an event that involves ALL of their rivals ?
And I don't think there'll be another occasion any time soon (meaning after Wano, until the final war) to feature all of them.
It also means that we won't see Capone, Bonney and Urouge fight before 3 to 4 years (at least until Wano ends).
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