Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

[K. Kira XXIII]

I have been wondering how having these type of devil fruits can give us more clues on where/how devil fruits are made. First we have their origin: manufactured or from nature.

I think regarding the second option is where all the confusion start to kick, what is natural? On the other hand, if we consider the type of change the fruit gives you, this could be better accepted. For example:

Imagine we have two lighting fruits. One allows you to produce lighting, the other allows you to become lighting. With this in mind, if we consider that the fruit types dictate what sort of manipulation you achieve, then it's okay~ for Mochi to be a logia because instead of meaning that it occurs in nature, the user becomes of that ~nature~. However this borderlines with the idea of: Is Luffy's fruit a paramecia or logia?

Anyways I was just trying to come up with something.

On the other hand, if the fruits were manufactured, then it sort of clues in that, whomever made them, started to see to what extent their technology(making devil fruits) could work. So they mixed in what they could. This however brings other problems as well like: How do you produce darkness in a way it can be registered for the process. Light, magma, ice, mud, rubber. Most of them work, but I wonder, if this route is taken, how will Oda portray​ the creation of the darkness fruit. It is not entirely out there considering Vegapunk and Ceasar made their own versions and we know Vegapunk has had setbacks regarding the current technology of the world being outdated compared to his visions.

[MasterKingJC]

I guess I should mention that there's a type of plant called a Mochi Tree. It's used to make a sticky material called birdlime.

This is probably most likely what Oda had in mind, while also being able to keep the fruit tied to the food/candy ability theme.

[Monquito]

I personally don't find anything wrong with beating and shooting the daughter of a country-destroyer asshole. the Vinsmokes deserve as much beating as possible.
and I also don't understand why mocking, tricking the SH's is also that bad, most of us thought it was too fishy that Pudding was being too nice, and Pedro pointed this out the entire time. this is really not much different from Baby 5 trying to beat Franky's butt and turned to be just a traumatized girl.

Pudding have really not done(yet) anything too shitty. she's just a bipolar women, and Sanji very likely already defeated her(also same way as to how Sai was shown to have defeated Baby 5). I honestly don't understand the people who want Pudding to get rekt, do they really NOT realize that Pudding is pretty much in the same situation as Sanji???, a family that treated her like shit, a marriage she's being obligated to perform, etc, etc.

Again, the real assholes here, are mostly the Vinsmokes, since to begin with, they put Sanji into this situation. And BM(but she's still likely to not be defeated here), so as long as Judge gets some real good beating, I'll be fine with it.

[Greg]

@MasterKingJC:

I guess I should mention that there's a type of plant called a Mochi Tree. It's used to make a sticky material called birdlime.

This is probably most likely what Oda had in mind, while also being able to keep the fruit tied to the food/candy ability theme.

Easily the best explanation I've read.

Everything fits and it even explains the decidely unnatural shading Oda chose for the ability unless we're supposed to assume it's been filled with haki.

[The Tenth Strawhat]

@MasterKingJC:

I guess I should mention that there's a type of plant called a Mochi Tree. It's used to make a sticky material called birdlime.

This is probably most likely what Oda had in mind, while also being able to keep the fruit tied to the food/candy ability theme.

Ya learn something new everyday. This is a pretty interesting find and it's amazing that Oda was still able to keep it within the limits of the candy wonderland that is Whole Cake Island/Totland.

[FolhaS]

@maxterdexter:

I personally don't have any trouble with logias being not-elemental, as after a comic that used titanium, chloride and magnesium elementals (because those are actual elements) made me kind of bored of the classical elements.

That got me interested. What series?
And how are those substances counted as elements? Elements are a human construct. Water is a susbtance, which takes many forms, fire is a reaction, earth/rock/stone is a basic term meaning "something people stand on" and has very different compositions depending on which part of the world you are.

[Count Mario]

@FolhaS:

That got me interested. What series?
And how are those substances counted as elements? Elements are a human construct. Water is a susbtance, which takes many forms, fire is a reaction, earth/rock/stone is a basic term meaning "something people stand on" and has very different compositions depending on which part of the world you are.

Dex is probably talking about a series that uses elements on the periodic table. So they are elements, just not the classic ancient Greek culture kind.

[Torao]

@andre:

What game was this? I am very interested.

Its from Gothic, to be more precise Gothic 2.

[FolhaS]

@Torao:

i always thought logia was about natural "disasters"
like an errupting volcano (smoke & lava)
wildfire (smoke & fire)
thunder, blizzard etc
so i found swamp always kinda fitting.

but i have to add that, as a teenager there was this fantasy rpg i always played, and there were 4 dragons who were all afilliated with the elements. one of them was the swamp dragon,
so i guess that could also be a reason why i dont see any problem with a swamp logia.:ninja:

anyway i remember when trebol seemed to be logia, and the most fitting explanation would've been, yeah he's a logia because he's like amber/resin. but then he wasnt and i was really glad, but now we have the same thing again, so yeah dont know what to think about a natural mochi disaster

The snapping turtles are also know as mud dragons.
Mud is not exactly swamp but, you know, close enough.

@Count:

Dex is probably talking about a series that uses elements on the periodic table. So they are elements, just not the classic ancient Greek culture kind.

Hence why I asked how the counting was being made.
'Cause a periodic table element and a "classic" element, altough sharing the same base idea for nomenclature, are two very different things in the end.
With the exception of water, I guess.

[Count Mario]

@FolhaS:

The snapping turtles are also know as mud dragons.
Mud is not exactly swamp but, you know, close enough.

Hence why I asked how the counting was being made.
'Cause a periodic table element and a "classic" element, altough sharing the same base idea for nomenclature, are two very different things in the end.
With the exception of water, I guess.

Sorry, it's just that you only called them substances instead of clarifying that you knew they were a different kind of elements. And Dex was saying that he doesn't care for classical elements not being consistently followed, so questioning him about how they could still count seemed redundant when he was already cool with breaking the rules and knowing that.

[Greg]

I would take mud over 'swamp'.

Swamp is so vague. It's a very complex blend of natural elements that encompasses everything from dirt to water to wood and lots and lots of dead material.

Everything else is a pretty straightforward naturally occurring element under specific conditions.

I'd probably have an easier time buying it if he didn't have a decidedly Paramecia-esque ability to go with it.

[Johnny B. Decent]

@Greg:

The Trebol's fruit was terrible. Stickiness was fine but that 'pulled-outta-a-butthole' power of being able to light it on fire??? What????

I think it might have something to do with this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrocellulose

Since it's kinda sticky, and all. And flammable.

[maxterdexter]

Swamp is more of a echo system, so can we expect the tundra logia? The coniferous forest logia? The grey terminal logia? Or it is more of a translation thing?

[Vectorkov]

@S.C.:

I think it might have something to do with this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrocellulose

Since it's kinda sticky, and all. And flammable.

That makes sense.

I had always thought of Trebol as a napalm-like man… sticky and highly flammable.

[Zar]

@Greg:

I would take mud over 'swamp'.

Swamp is so vague. It's a very complex blend of natural elements that encompasses everything from dirt to water to wood and lots and lots of dead material.

Everything else is a pretty straightforward naturally occurring element under specific conditions.

I'd probably have an easier time buying it if he didn't have a decidedly Paramecia-esque ability to go with it.

What about quicksand?

It's not as natural as mud, but it's way better than swamp and would retain the element of sinking and storage.

Not to mention this:

!

looks more like quicksand (or mud, for that matter)

!

than it looks like a swamp/marsh/bog

!

[Jabra]

I always considered logia to be natural hazards, or what average people would call real "forces of nature". Not "elements", because "elements" kind of implies that Oda cares about some sort of chemical element correctness, and I absolutely don't think Oda is the type of guy who does. He's not a science guy, and definitely not a numbers guy.
At least that's my impression based on how he generally handles things in One Piece, not just when it comes to Devil Fruits. But Greg knows him better than us, maybe I'm wrong here.

That said, the comment from Enel about his own powers always made the most sense to me, despite his overblown ego:

@Enel:

You understand now, right? I am "thunder"! No matter how much the "humans" struggle, they will never defeat "thunder". Ever since ancient times, to run from their fear, humans define anything terrible that they can not understand as god. I'm one of the natural disasters that humans gave up on conquering!

The last sentence works great to define the logia class in general. Every Logia power introduced so far can be easily linked to a "natural hazard", something people are commonly afraid of.

Sandstorms & draught, temperatures far below zero, blizzards, wildfires, intense sunlight, volcanic erruptions, gas deathtraps in mines. Even swamp makes perfect sense when we consider how dangerous it can be to traverse bog and moorland. And a cosmologist would probably have no issues calling a "blackhole" a natural hazard.

Considering this, I actually really like Artemis' idea that there could be some sort of Mochi Natural Hazard that only occurs in the New World. Going back to Enel's quote I mentioned above, he starts his conversation with Kamakiri with the following:

@Enel:

Even though you grew up on Sky Island, you have seen thunder at least once?

Implying that the average Sky Island citizen probably never experienced thunder before.

I would buy the Mochi fruit if Oda bothers to let us experience the "Mochi Natural Hazard", maybe even as a parting gift when the crew leaves Totland. So we can all sympathise with backwater Kamakiri being afraid of…. thunder.

---

As for the Paramecia thing, both Pica and Trebol dont bother me. There are quite a few "substances" that could also be labeled a natural Hazard, like the super broad "poison", but they get a pass because Oda always adds another freaky paramecia feature to them:

Magellan's poison isn't just poison, it's a freaky super poison that infects even inorganic matter. Mr. 3's wax isn't just wax, it's wax so hard that even Zoro wasn't able to cut it pre Daz Bones. Pica can "bend" and "stretch" the solid stone he assimilates, and Trebol's sticky substance isn't only flammable, it's highly explosive to the point that even a small amount can nuke entire rooms.

With that in mind, Katakuri's Mochi should be strictly Mochi, no other supernatural feature on top.

As a contrast, Opera's cream fruit burns things with "sweetness". I don't understand what the idea is behind that one... but I don't question it due to eh, anything goes Paramecia. Maybe there is a japanese pun involved or so?

[RomanceDawn]

Jabra I think the cream burning opponents comes from baking sugary substances in general. Certain sugars tend to char and can basically be down right flammable. I've noticed when I bake creamy pies of any type if get the tiniest layer of filling on the outer edge of the crust that portion bakes like it was prepared in hell. Woolfwood might be able to explain better.

[Kaido King of the Beasts]

I would have really liked to see Katakuri's fruit turn him into "Mizuame", since it still has all the sticky properties but has actually appeared as a force of nature more than once in this arc.

[Greg]

What about quicksand?

I probably wouldn't mind that as much. I mean it's a fairly simple combination of elements compared to the broad 'swamp'.

Sadly that's not the case as the word for quicksand is as different from swamp in Japanese as it is in English.

Even if that wasn't, his decidedly Paramecia-like ability of storing stuff still bothers me.

I always considered logia to be natural hazards, or what average people would call real "forces of nature"

Oda never described them as 'elemental' just 'natural' so while nothing is wrong with him using anything from nature and it's not broken according to his rules, we were initially introduced to fairly simple elemental-based varieties of fruits before getting sub categories of biomes which just seem broad and vague. Maxter mentioned it above, how long before we get Coniferous Forest Woman! The combination of vague nature basis and Paramecia-like ability are what make that particular ability particularly unappealing to me.

I wouldn't attach myself too strongly the 'natural hazard' idea. Oda might base some ideas on natural hazards because they're historically terrifying/interesting but don't expect that to be a strict rule. People don't run in fear from sand. It just makes sense that elements occurring in nature may be used in conjunction with 'natural' disasters which make for terrifying experiences that people can relate to. This is why 'the most powerful man' has an ability that was creating the scariest natural disaster of all for the people of Japan, earthquakes. And he was a Paramecia.

Magellan's poison isn't just poison, it's a freaky super poison that infects even inorganic matter.

Now see, this isn't a problem at all or even 'freaky'.

That's because Magellan's Paramecia ability gives him access to all types of poison. There's nothing odd about that. I know you said you don't mind it. My point is, nobody should mind it because it makes sense. As a 'poison person' he has access to many kinds of poisons and that feels natural. As for Mr. 3, Zoro (at that time) shouldn't have been able to cut hardened wax. It's actually really hard to do! Just so long as the wax isn't warm.

As a contrast, Opera's cream fruit burns things with "sweetness".

This made perfect sense to me actually. I just thought it was a case of extreme osmosis. I read it and it clicked immediately. Check this out https://socratic.org/questions/how-does-sugar-affect-osmosis-does-it-force-the-water-particles-out-if-so-why

As for the suggested explanation of Trebol's flammability. That's so obscure and there's no reference made to it whatsoever that I'm really hard-pressed to believe Oda even knows that. If we assume that's he's the same as Magellan, and he probably is, therefore being able to create different sticky materials, that works just fine but he makes no mention of anything to that end. So is it poor writing or a poor ability? Oda cut A LOT of corners in DR, but I'd hope he wouldn't avoid using a single panel to clarify that if he had it in mind. Instead, NOPE! Guess what, my goop is flammable! Hmmm, okay?

tldr: Oda's been using a calculator and not showing his work ever since New World.

He's showing us amazing things but he's not showing us how he got there.

[maxterdexter]

Continuing on "why caribou sucks on so many levels", his secondary power is "to store things in his body". Like Capone and Poket Face from Whitebeard's side of the war (Blamo?) AND Blackbeard. And Franky without devil fruits.

There's also the thing on what actually are devil fruits. Going on from what we know, they do something about "bloodline elements" (that's according to Greg and OPP, Oda's DNA so don't bother me with true genetics clever plan) to grant supernatural abilities. If the process is able to be replicated by science, there is a possibility that the process was manufactured in the first place as well, this is a logic leap as you can recreate many natural things in a lab, but if somehow I've never in my life had seen lighting but I see it first in a lab without context, then I'll asume manufactured until proven otherwise.

So there was this one scientist of the ancient kingdom who never had any space for his stuff, and then he decided to become a pocked, and used the power of science to create an escence that inhabits.. ehm.. Guavas, in order to grant the body of the being who consumes it the ability to produce and control pockets.

I wanna meet Vegapunk.

[Greg]

lol
tldr: I wanna meet Vegapunk.

Yes and no. Once we do, assuming we get answers, the magic/mystery is gone and that's like 70% of the fun.

[maxterdexter]

That would be sad, but we don't need to get the whole truth in one siting.

Just a nibble, and to learn what does the big pants man knows about. Or more interesting, what he doesn't knows.

[SolVanderlyn]

@Greg:

lol
tldr: I wanna meet Vegapunk.

Yes and no. Once we do, assuming we get answers, the magic/mystery is gone and that's like 70% of the fun.

I love the mystery, but the fun has to end sometime. The buildup has been insane, especially recently with Punk Hazard and Caesar, and now the Germa's past. His reveal will basically signal the end stretch of the series and be a HUGE moment because of that.

[ARTEMlS]

I think Vegapunk will tell us a lot, but without the mystery being completely solved. That'll high likely happen at Raftel then.

[uniaka ikuzakas]

I wonder how will oda play the sanji-vegapunk part, like when sanji will steal his ''world's best scientist ''title.

small theory:

! cooking is science, sanji studies science books since small. The most powerfull items out there, DFs are FOOD. Vegapunk and CC made only fail Artificial fruits. Sanji's dream was to have a fruit, but absalom killed it. But Oda introduced another option, so sanji's dream is still alive, he can self make artificial fruit. He will make first good artificial fruit and be called world's best scientist.

[Koliber]

Great theory, it reminds me of Pedro the Ninja one. Fanboys surely are something.

[SolVanderlyn]

It sounds sort of far-fetched, but not impossible. I think it's an interesting theory.

! Speaking of Sanji and his cooking being important, that reminds me how All Blue is going to tie into the series endgame. I'm still subscribing to the theory that All Blue is what is created when the Red Line is destroyed by the three ancient weapons and all four seas flow into each other. Which may very well happen during the course of the story.

[Monquito]

I'm pretty sure Franky is the one more likely to hang out with Vegapunk than anyone else.

[Koliber]

But have you ever seen him cooking? I don't remember anything like this, so I'm pretty sure that our cyborg friend's knowledge of science is way too small to pick anyone's interest, much less Vegapunk's. But worry not, he surely will be remembered as the world's second best cyborg (after Sanji that is, when he modifies himself using Vinesmoke technology in this arc).

[Monquito]

Sanji wouldn't throw away what her mom did for him.

[Count Mario]

@Koliber:

But have you ever seen him cooking? I don't remember anything like this, so I'm pretty sure that our cyborg friend's knowledge of science is way too small to pick anyone's interest, much less Vegapunk's. But worry not, he surely will be remembered as the world's second best cyborg (after Sanji that is, when he modifies himself using Vinesmoke technology in this arc).

I hope you're joking. And if you are, that's a bit funny lol. But if you're being serious, cooking does imply that you have scientific knowledge or pursuits. At most, you'll know basic stuff like water evaporates into steam from heat, and maybe some knowledge about poisons and herbs and the like. You can definitely incorporate knowledge of science into cooking (like using liquid nitrogen to make ice cream), but knowledge of science itself is not a prerequisite for cooking.

He read a book that has the word SCIENCE on it. That only indicates mild interest at a young age. That's it. Cooking on its own is what has solely been emphasized in Sanji's character and specialties.

In short, Gordon Ramsay does not have a PhD in cybernetics or genetics just because he's a chef and maybe read a few Science text books in high school lol.

Franky is still much more suited to talking with Vegapunk due to at least having lots of knowledge about engineering and applying actual blueprints/records Vegapunk had in his home island. That is not short knowledge at all. Franky isn't as smart as Vegapunk overall for sure, but he is still a prodigy in his own right when it comes to engineering. Sanji will probably talk to Vegapunk a bit too. But most likely only to discuss Vegapunk's past relationship with Judge and learn more about Bloodline Elements, which are the key to how his siblings got exoskeletons and is likely linked to the truth about Devil Fruits (which is hinted in how all of the Vinsmoke children have curly eyebrows resembling the curls on Devil Fruit designs). I wouldn't be surprised if Vegapunk knows a thing or two about Pluton as well since it is a mechanically advanced ship that Franky memorized the blueprints of.

[Koliber]

He has already disappointed his dad pretty good. If he was to discard what his mom has done for him, he would definitely become #1 in disappointing parents in OP world, beating even Sabo. Sorry, man, but that's definitely happening. BTW, have I already mentioned my theory of Sanji beating Katakuri using knives (Potato guy fights with food) prompting Morgans to declare him World's Greatest Swrdsman?

[Count Mario]

@Koliber:

He has already disappointed his dad pretty good. If he was to discard what his mom has done for him, he would definitely become #1 in disappointing parents in OP world, beating even Sabo. Sorry, man, but that's definitely happening. BTW, have I already mentioned my theory of Sanji beating Katakuri using knives (Potato guy fights with food) prompting Morgans to declare him World's Greatest Swrdsman?

Sanji can defeat a Yonko Commander with two short blades while Zoro struggled against a Shichibukai minion while wielding three katanas. How embarrassing.

[Monquito]

Zeff is more like a father to Sanji than Judge will ever be, and Sanji wouldn't think it twice if he was in danger. he's not disappointing Zeff, neither will ever disappoint Sora's effort to keep him human, the one parent who ever showed affect to Sanji, he is in fact, never going against her wishes.

[Count Mario]

@Monquito:

Zeff is more like a father to Sanji than Judge will ever be, and Sanji wouldn't think it twice if he was in danger. he's not disappointing Zeff, neither will ever disappoint Sora's effort to keep him human, the one parent who ever showed affect to Sanji, he is in fact, never going against her wishes.

Koliber is clearly joking at this point.

[Koliber]

If the problem is number, than he can use only one knife. After all, if he could lose a hand in this arc, he would get a shot at World Strongest Amputee. I mean Luffy and Sanji are on similar level of power, so if Luffy is gonna surpass Shanks, so should Sanji. The only problem is Buggy who can make himself amputee at will but I believe Sanji will manage to become even better than that.

[Monquito]

@Count:

Koliber is clearly joking at this point.

yeah, I was just thinking if he's been watching too much bs from One Piece-Youtubers, since that's where most shitty non-sense theories come from.

[uniaka ikuzakas]

Sanji won't use knifes post ts. That was a thing before guys that can send air slashes with their legs got introduced.

You guys forgot about rankyaku? If even shts like Nero had it, there is no way sanji will never get it. Even more considering he already got CP9 techniques like geppou.

@Monquito:

yeah, I was just thinking if he's been watching too much bs from One Piece-Youtubers, since that's where most shitty non-sense theories come from.

Just no. I'm sure no youtuber ever mentions anything like this, ever.

[Monquito]

@uniaka:

Just no. I'm sure no youtuber ever mentions anything like this, ever.

Pheww!! thankfully.

However. I'm still more of the idea that Sanji should learn some stuff from Hasshoken, I mean, since Zoro is likely to learn some things from the Samurais of Wano, why not teaching Sanji the damn technique that splits mountains in half with just a kick, I think it would be much more fitting for him.

I don't know how likely is this thing to happen since to begin with, Sai and Sanji don't even know each other, plus each of the 7 captains have very unique fighting styles to each other, and Oda probably wouldn't want anyone else than Sai to be capable of splitting the ice continent.

[Roronoa Zacho]

Vegapunk could finally confirm sth like the Serpent's tree where the DFs originally grew from.

Greg, one of your next columns should be an Anime-Special to how epic BM's intro @ Tottoland was.
It was the first time for quite a Long time where the Anime surpassed my expectations. A must-see for every Alice-in-wonderland-fan and an intro worth for a yonkou like BM. They definetely put a lot of Money into that Scene.
And no matter how much one might hate BM, certain Animators now hate her even more. From the dots and frills on her Dress till her eyelashes.

[Greg]

I wrote a blurb about it.
It was okay.

Key animation was all over the map.

Tune was good but the VAs were really MicroMachining some of those lyrics.

I don't think it deserves praise for something it should be doing every week.

[oikgerd]

Greg's new column is up:

https://one-piece.com/special/greg/20170503_0725?l=en

[Bellamy_]

this one is kinda short… probably Greg had to many right guesses?

[Greg]

It's one chapter less than usual columns because I caught up to chapters in real time.

Chapter 864 was not included because that chapter does not release legally until next Monday.

[Bellamy_]

@Greg:

It's one chapter less than usual columns because I caught up to chapters in real time.

Chapter 864 was not included because that chapter does not release legally until next Monday.

Oh my bad… didnt know about the Chapters you use for the columns... just seemed short... and i once have seen from you in this thread that sometime parts of your column arent accepted...

after your words about the anime filler i watched some of it... and now i know why i dont watch the anime:ninja:

[Roronoa Zacho]

@Greg:

(…)

I don't think it deserves praise for something it should be doing every week.

I had pretty much the same thoughts about this too. Most of the time the Animation is underwhelming, so I was happy BM's song was executed this well. Especially for the end of an Episode. Usually the end of an Episode is drawn/animated the worst, because of time/Deadline or sth. I especially remember when Luffy cried post-war, that he still got his nakama out there (was @ AL). God, his nakama were drawn awfully…!

[oikgerd]

Greg's new column:

https://one-piece.com/special/greg/20170517_0737?l=en

[Md-Martin]

Has it been officially romanized as "Sola" and not "Sora"?

[Greg]

Just a decision to go along with the anime.

Doesn't roll off the tongue but it'd be odd to contradict the spelling in the episode i'm talking about.

#rockmehardplace

[Monquito]

@Md-Martin:

Has it been officially romanized as "Sola" and not "Sora"?

She's a loner:ninja: