godly post
@Count:
Another godly post
You both bring up great points. Although I never payed attention to the fact BM's children dispose the bodies of the people she kills during her death cravings until Count Mario pointed it out. Do they hide the victims so she doesn't remember who got iced by her? How would BM react if she found out?
Now there´s not much else that humans value more than their lives, life-spans, time. Having to give that away to such a psycho just to live there is unimaginable. Initially, I thought we could get away with some sort of treaty with Big Mom. But all things considered, she needs to go down if there´s no cure to her madness.
The population seems to willingly and happily give up their lives. They do have a choice in the mater and in return they are offered protection within the new world and allowed to live in a wonderland with a lot of racial harmony. Big Mom collects 1 month of lifespan from the population every 6 months. For the average lifespan of 100 years for humans, 150 for dwarves that is doable. If you lived there for 50 years you'd lose about 8 years of your life which I think most everyone there thinks is pretty fare.
Anyway, I think Luffy and Nami will not go down against this Enraged Army. Big Mom has severely underestimated the Strawhats just like the males in the past. I am a bit disappointed. I thought she was also cunning and tactical with all the blackmailing and stuff. For all the neat "intel" she is able to gather beforehand, not knowing what was going on for the whole night in the forest with Cracker was super negligent from them. It seems like they don´t even know that Nami has her vivre card.
Big Mom sent an entire army after the Straw Hats as well as two Homies that can manipulate the whether. How is that underestimating them? How is Big Mom supposed to account for a single Vivre card that was given to Nami way over in Paradise from a daughter who by all accounts of King Baum shouldn't have had one in the first place? Nami had complete control over the leader of the Homies, so of course no intel got out once the battle with Cracker began.
And yeah sure Nami uses the weather as well but I doubt anyone knows the extent of her abilities, especially not now that Usopp had only just finished her new weapon. Nami can literally guide lightning and make it change directions if it misses its target. I very much doubt Zeus and Prometheus can do that but you can't hold that against Big Mom, who could account for that? Linlin probably knows Nami manipulates the weather as a weapon but I'm pretty sure 9 out of 10 people would put their money on the actual pieces of nature to win that fight.
Raleigh was able to get that band off Camie's neck, shouldn't Luffy have learnt how to do that now? Sanji is plain pathetic, his plan was to leave home was to abandon the dream that had made him who he is. The way these strawhats give up their ambition so easy makes me wonder if they are worthy of being among the King's of the sea. I wonder who might be taking us on another of this tired played out journeys? Surely not Zoro. This new world has seriously been demeaning for the Sanji character. It's a pity. We're now set up for another deux X machina device in this one piece plot. I imagine it will come from Pudding. That's the only way out of the present situation. The thing is, this literary device has been used several times in this Manga and it surely does get tiring. Luffy's impetuous nature might be to blame but it's time these egg heads began to think and plan properly when there is so much to lose. Luffy should be able to think more about the impact of his actions on his crew members and others. Whereas this should be nail biting cliff hanger, it has created room for some head scratching.
Raleigh was able to get that band off Camie's neck, shouldn't Luffy have learnt how to do that now? Sanji is plain pathetic, his plan was to leave home was to abandon the dream that had made him who he is. The way these strawhats give up their ambition so easy makes me wonder if they are worthy of being among the King's of the sea. I wonder who might be taking us on another of this tired played out journeys? Surely not Zoro. This new world has seriously been demeaning for the Sanji character. It's a pity. We're now set up for another deux X machina device in this one piece plot. I imagine it will come from Pudding. That's the only way out of the present situation. The thing is, this literary device has been used several times in this Manga and it surely does get tiring. Luffy's impetuous nature might be to blame but it's time these egg heads began to think and plan properly when there is so much to lose. Luffy should be able to think more about the impact of his actions on his crew members and others. Whereas this should be nail biting cliff hanger, it has created room for some head scratching.
You don't know what you are talking about it.XD
Luffy : No Sanji no crew!
And yes Luffy can do the same thing as Religh because why?
This totland arc made me think again about vivre card. It's still unknown how they can be done and to me it still seems a little messy.
Earlier in the story we knew that in some island somebody was able to do them (ace said that if I recall correctly), still Sabo came up at the end of Dressrosa and did one for Luffy offpaneled in a whim.
Now we have BM vivre card from Lola (honestly handled a lil bit OP in my opinion) but we don't know anything else.
Beside that there's still BB ability to steal DF to people (well .. or weapon - since the knife used by burgess and BB it's always present when somebody's fruit is stolen on panel). I put that here cause it's somehow similar in a certain way.
while BB's ability is probably unrelated to BM, in my opinion, I believe making vivre card have to do something with BM ability and fruit, even if Sabo made it in Dressrosa.
What's your opinion?
He knew that's why he left with them. Remember when Vito whispered in his ear?
You assumed what was said in a whisper? Now that's new.
His surprised look when Judge showed him the picture of Zeff during the dinner showed that was the first time he was aware of the situation.
IF YOU DIE, I'LL KILL YOU….
@Count:
But I'm enjoying this ride too. It seems like this will definitely become one of my favorite arcs out of the whole series if Oda keeps playing his cards right with this suspense. I love how we're not completely sure of how this arc will transpire.
Agreed! I like this arc way more than Dressrosa which got completely ruined through the Sugar+Birdcage subplot for me.
However, one thing about the citizens' choice: It's not as much a voluntary choice as it may seem. It's not really a choice between live or leave, in fact it's a choice between
They may be able to leave theoretically, but how are they supposed to pull it off? So let's say they decide to try going to Shanks' territory or to settle in paradise/blues. We've already seen how dangerous the sea can be even in East Blue. Very few might make it, though, but for the most the alternative just would be certain death.
Why do people think so low of sanji? It's obvious he can get out of those shackles, he's just playing along because it's part of his plan. He'll free himself when he can make sure the cook master and others are doing ok which he should've already done something with and just waiting for a message tellin him they're clear. Then he's gonna beat the shit out of jugde while shit goes crazy, big mom losing power, betrayed from all sides, etc
You assumed what was said in a whisper? Now that's new.
His surprised look when Judge showed him the picture of Zeff during the dinner showed that was the first time he was aware of the situation.
But who could that be that vito talked about ivankov ?
Raleigh was able to get that band off Camie's neck, shouldn't Luffy have learnt how to do that now?
Because Rayleigh obviously took Luffy aside when training him on Haki to say "Hey, if you ever just so happen to be in a situation where a bomb collar is put on someone, here is how you remove it quick enough.
It's not a matter of "how to" do it, Rayleigh ripped the thing off and threw it fast enough so that the explosion wouldn't hurt Camie.
Also you're acting like Luffy knows that Sanji has these things on.
Sanji is plain pathetic, his plan was to leave home was to abandon the dream that had made him who he is. The way these strawhats give up their ambition so easy makes me wonder if they are worthy of being among the King's of the sea. I wonder who might be taking us on another of this tired played out journeys? Surely not Zoro.
Yeah surely not Zoro, the man who blatantly said he'd give up his life(and his dream) to protect his captain on Thriller Bark, and when he begged Mihawk to train him and he stated that getting stronger for Luffy's sake was worth begging to the man he wants to beat to train him.
Also what the fuck are you talking about saying his "plan to leave home was to abandon the dream that he had made him who he is". He left his home to leave his nazi family, then left Baratie to go fulfill his dream of finding the All Blue.
This new world has seriously been demeaning for the Sanji character. It's a pity. We're now set up for another deux X machina device in this one piece plot. I imagine it will come from Pudding. That's the only way out of the present situation. The thing is, this literary device has been used several times in this Manga and it surely does get tiring. Luffy's impetuous nature might be to blame but it's time these egg heads began to think and plan properly when there is so much to lose. Luffy should be able to think more about the impact of his actions on his crew members and others. Whereas this should be nail biting cliff hanger, it has created room for some head scratching.
I think you're confusing a deus ex machina for…well plot. I honestly don't know if you're trolling or trying to make some point but a deus ex machina would be like if Kuma showed up out of nowhere and blew the cuffs off.
Please, what other "deus ex machina" have you found in the manga since you've said it's used so much. Only one I can possibly think of right now is the Merry showing up on Enies Lobby.
The fact of the matter is right now Sanji has handcuffs on that will explode if he leaves the island, the key is with one of the 4 Emperors, his father figure is in a hostage situation across the world, and Luffy doesn't know any of this.
Why do people think so low of sanji? It's obvious he can get out of those shackles, he's just playing along because it's part of his plan. He'll free himself when he can make sure the cook master and others are doing ok which he should've already done something with and just waiting for a message tellin him they're clear. Then he's gonna beat the shit out of jugde while shit goes crazy, big mom losing power, betrayed from all sides, etc
While I disagree with all the people making Sanji out to be this low, pathetic character, it's not "obvious" he can get out of those shackles. He wouldn't have panels of him looking at them in anger otherwise. It's not a part of his plan, we saw in THIS chapter that that is very much not the case. Do I think it's possible he can get out of them? Yes. However at the moment we have no reason to believe that Sanji is confident he can and we've only been shown the opposite. He's stuck between a rock and a hard place right now, the man who usually has a plan is legitimately in a situation right now where he does not currently have a plan.
People seem to forget about Sanji on Dressrosa on Zou, I guess cuz he wasn't there much, which is a shame because he was phenomenal. Yes, he ran into Viola entirely through accident, but his mannerisms toward her pretty much saved her and the entire crew. And right after he learned the truth, he pretty much went right to work getting the Straw Hats out of the hole Doffy was putting them in, even taking on Doffy himself and not being afraid despite being completely overpowered. Then after the Sunny crew escapes he leads them through a battle with Big Mom's ship, onto Zou, and into a salvation mission. And when stuff started getting bad for him when Bege arrived, he still managed to surprise by getting his crewmates out of Bege's captivity.
And moving on to this arc, it's really important for people to know that this is supposed to be Sanji's darkest hour. His entire livelihood and everyone he cares about is in jeopardy and he can pretty much do nothing to stop all of it. And yet people expect him to be an emotionally impervious Superman, correlating him with his Punk Hazard self which is the most recent part of him they can remember.
Now, I could understand it if Sanji was in this situation because he was a total dumbass and completely ignored any obvious ways to get out of the situation, which can be a common trope in media, but as far as I see this wasn't the case at all. And honestly, would you really have as much/any investment in this arc if it was always apparent that Sanji was confident and had a plan? No, because that would basically render any threat from the opposition useless and there would be nothing to keep interest piqued. Instead, this arc focuses on how Sanji is confronted by aspects of his past that he has no control over, joined in by a Yonko, and basically his natural reaction to all of this as well as the reactions of his friends. Not a Sanji fight showcase.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
You assumed what was said in a whisper? Now that's new.
His surprised look when Judge showed him the picture of Zeff during the dinner showed that was the first time he was aware of the situation.
I know what Vito whispered to Sanji.
Deus ex machine: an unexpected power or event saving a seemingly hopeless situation, especially as a contrived plot device in a play or novel.
It hasappened plenty times especially for Luffy, not to talk of other smaller characters. In Logue town with Dragon; in Saboady archipelago with Kuma; in Fishmongers island with the sea monsters; at the Battle of the white beard vs world government with the the arrival of Shanks. It will happen here again no doubt because Luffy won't budge.
I meant to say Sanji left his crew for a pathetic reason and he even thought never to return. That is not the way of a true Mugiwara. Not so late in the manga. These characters have developed to such a level that nothing should shake them easily. Especially a clear headed third most powerful character like Sanji. And yes, on a lighter note, Raleigh said he left Luffy after teaching him all he knew. Without Raleigh's intervention for Camie (another deus ex machina), she might have died. Luffy might have reckoned that was a neat trick to learn seeing that it saved her life with a flip of the wrist.
I meant to say Sanji left his crew for a pathetic reason and he even thought never to return. That is not the way of a true Mugiwara. Not so late in the manga. These characters have developed to such a level that nothing should shake them easily. Especially a clear headed third most powerful character like Sanji. And yes, on a lighter note, Raleigh said he left Luffy after teaching him all he knew. Without Raleigh's intervention for Camie (another deus ex machina), she might have died. Luffy might have reckoned that was a neat trick to learn seeing that it saved her life with a flip of the wrist.
You can't call Sanji's reason pathetic until we actually learn the reason. Aka find out what Vito said to him.
And, again, Luffy doesn't even know about Sanji's cuffs so the whole Rayleigh argument is meaningless. Plus Sanji's not going to think, "oh, remember that one time Rayleigh pulled off an exploding collar? Maybe there's an off chance he taught it to Luffy and that gives me enough reason to risk blowing off my hands and probably injuring Luffy as well! And I have absolutely no loved ones that would die if Luffy did that because I'm a pathetic loser!"
Deus ex machine: an unexpected power or event saving a seemingly hopeless situation, especially as a contrived plot device in a play or novel.
It hasappened plenty times especially for Luffy, not to talk of other smaller characters. In Logue town with Dragon
No one knew who the person was at the time. But considering the fact that he is from East blue.. not an asspull.
in Saboady archipelago with Kuma;
Kuma already "saved" the strawhats before on Thriller bark. Also the one that saved the strawhats from the hopeless situation was Rayleigh.
in Fishmongers island with the sea monsters;
my memory is not good on this one.
at the Battle of the white beard vs world government with the the arrival of Shanks. It will happen here again no doubt because Luffy won't budge.
What did Shanks do? Whitebeard and Ace were already dead and Luffy was already in the submarine. It was already mentioned Kaido went to kill whitebeard but Shanks had a battle with him, him coming in to stop Akainu wasn't as random.
But who could that be that vito talked about ivankov ?
I don't know, but his reaction was surprise and disgust. Whatever Vito told him, Sanji still want to resolve the issue and return back to the SHs. Sanji gave up completely after he was shown the picture of Zeff.
IF YOU DIE, I'LL KILL YOU….
I think explosives handling is a Rayleigh exclusive skill. Plus Sanji has given no indication he's not concerned about the bracelets. I can't imagine Luffy having such a skill either. He's not a finesse sort of character. Or a magician.
I think explosives handling is a Rayleigh exclusive skill. Plus Sanji has given no indication he's not concerned about the bracelets. I can't imagine Luffy having such a skill either. He's not a finesse sort of character. Or a magician.
I think it just has to do with speed and strength really. He just rips it off fast enough to make it explode in the air instead of on the person. If that is what he does than it wouldn't be just him that could do it it would just be a select few who are able to do so. Luffy may be on that level but I for some reason doubt that
I think it just has to do with speed and strength really. He just rips it off fast enough to make it explode in the air instead of on the person. If that is what he does than it wouldn't be just him that could do it it would just be a select few who are able to do so. Luffy may be on that level but I for some reason doubt that
Rip it off without taking off Kamie's head?
But I dunno. I couldn't picture Luffy being able to do it. He's physically fast but also a brute force type of guy. And he's not very good at being that delicate with people. He throws and crashes into his crew all time.
Removing bracelets doesn't require special powers or such an amazing skills that only a few can have, it requires speed and observation Haki to know the right moment the bracelet is gonna explode.
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@The:
You both bring up great points. Although I never payed attention to the fact BM's children dispose the bodies of the people she kills during her death cravings until Count Mario pointed it out. Do they hide the victims so she doesn't remember who got iced by her? How would BM react if she found out?
I have no idea. What's interesting is how Mont D'or demands that they scavenge every single "second", which is presumably the bits and pieces left of Moscato's lifespan. They might keep that stuff around in hope that they could revive him or at least for another beneficial purpose. But everybody playing coy is definitely strange. Even wise and honorable Jimbei went along with it.
So that begs the question, as silly as this may sound. Does Big Mom even KNOW she has an illness in the first place? She could still know about it while not being informed of when they happen, but it's still a possibility. Especially when she seems to care about her children by telling them not to fight or kill each other, which would make for a rather morbidly awkward revelation about Moscato from her own children.
@Bartholemew:
Agreed! I like this arc way more than Dressrosa which got completely ruined through the Sugar+Birdcage subplot for me.
However, one thing about the citizens' choice: It's not as much a voluntary choice as it may seem. It's not really a choice between live or leave, in fact it's a choice between
- give up some of your lifespan but gain protection and a okay/good life
- get no protection and die by the other dangers of the New World
They may be able to leave theoretically, but how are they supposed to pull it off? So let's say they decide to try going to Shanks' territory or to settle in paradise/blues. We've already seen how dangerous the sea can be even in East Blue. Very few might make it, though, but for the most the alternative just would be certain death.
That's certainly a valid point. But the souls are still utilized for the benefit of the kingdom in the Homies' usefulness. So I would still argue that it's fair. It's the New World, there's bound to be risks involved when you decide to live in a pirate-protected territory rather than being protected by the Marines/World Government. Even though Shanks and Whitebeard probably don't ask for anything in return, I wouldn't say this is enough to make a case for Big Mom being unjustifiably corrupt in and of itself.
And this is definitely MUCH better than Dressrosa.
My focus was on Luffy and Sanji, I haven´t really put much thought into dealing with BM.
I understand.
I respect the points that have been made against BM "going down" and I agree with most of them. As I said, I absolutely did not expect BM being defeated by force, if at all. I jokingly predicted something ridiculous like an eating contest. My train of thought was along the lines of Lola & Nami friendship -> vivre card -> some sort of peaceful resolution.
So, I still think the likelihood of a BM beating is very slim, especially considering the author has build the future Kaidou encounter as an all-out conflict requiring weeks of planning and ally gathering. I am glad I mentioned the portion regarding curing "her madness", which for me encompasses all the evil things she is doing.
I've been predicting a Davy Back Fight myself lol. I would love that to be relevant in an arc with this many stakes and quirkiness. But the chances for that or some sort of eating contest (not that an eating contest can't be the final round of a Davy Back Fight…) have obviously decreased. I never expected Big Mom to change her mind with just the Vivre Card though. It will definitely be a factor in her getting more cool with the Straw Hats, but after waging war and invading Totland, that can't be enough lol. But I trust that you acknowledge this as well now.
But, the story has come to a point where bad stuff is slowly piling up for both (all) sides and I am wondering how all these situations can be dealt with in a somewhat peaceful way:
Some type of negotiation or game. Like the one Big Mom offered to Jimbei when he tried to leave Big Mom. I doubt Oda introduced that without making her love for games come back in some way. Also, a lot of things can happen during the wedding chaos to destabilize Big Mom's power structure to rectify her corruption.
1. Taking the life force from Totlanders, only to put it into inanimate objects to create her "slave toys".
Her dream may seem admirable (if we´re talking racial equality, everyone seen as a family member), but the means are not. If she´s so strong and capable, she should be able to fulfill her fantasy without killing people, among other stuff. She is an ego-maniac with enough to force her will onto others, if they don´t play along, and she has been doing exactly that. As far as caring rulers go, she doesn´t reach the heels of King Riku in my book (who had his own flaws, but his love for the country and its citizens was pure).
Totland is far from ideal, in my opinion it´s just an absolute monarchy where the crazy ruler taxes life spans to build pretty stuff for herself. Again, she should give parts of her own soul away. But why would she? Power abuse.
You might argue that Germa´s way of disrespecting human lives by simply creating "new disposable pawns" is more evil and that´s true, but that´s not an excuse for what BM is doing. Even if the citizens didn´t make the pact, who´s to say she wouldn´t take it by force (threat of force) like she does with pretty much everything?
Anyway, if nothing else, the BM-Germa evil alliance should be prevented.
It's because she's so strong and capable that she shouldn't be using her own lifespan to preserve her kingdom. It's her tactical mind, power, and sheer presence that preserves Totland and her territories as one of the greatest pirate figures in the world. And with her personifications of her soul scattered around Totland collecting other people's souls, they may very well be pieces of Big Mom's own lifespan for all we know. That's not power abuse, it's not needlessly putting yourself at risk when you are the cornerstone of preserving your kingdom. She's not just building pretty stuff for herself, the Homies actually protect and enrich that society as a whole. AND it's still the citizens choice to give away bits of their life. Bits of their life that are only a sixth of the time they spend living there with all of its benefits. Life does not find value solely in how much time is available, but what you specifically do with the time for you have for earnest satisfaction regardless of how long or short it may be. If the citizens are cool with that and have their lose lifespan portions dedicated towards a society that helps them prosper, then it's a decent tradeoff.
The alliance should be prevented though. And regardless of viewing Big Mom's soul taxes and Homie as justifiable or morbid, I'm sure that the citizens will get back their lifespan pieces at the end of the arc. Just like how when Moria was defeated, everybody across the world got their stolen shadows back. Or when the toys got transformed back into normal on Dressrosa. I think that Brook will use his ambiguous soul powers and music to manipulate the soul incarnations. As seen in how he describes how his music entrances the souls of those who listen to the point of causing hallucinations and hypnosis, and how his sword is powered by his soul's freezing underworld energy.
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Nami takes on Prometheus and Zeus with her weather powers and Brook takes care of the soul incarnations with his soul powers. Pretty cool. That just leaves Chopper to deal with Big Mom's illness and maybe Sanji can do something cooking related for her (such as cooking the food that Big Mom craves during her delirious rampages sparked by her illness). And Jimbei can… place wet pieces of cloth on her forehead during the treatment, I guess. XD
2. Destroying countries because they do not deliver insane amounts of food on time. Pacta sunt servanda, but not like this. Power abuse again with innocent casualties.
I mentioned this as a vice. I agree that this should not continue. Same with forcing the Charlotte children into marriages and excommunicating husbands from the family once their "role" of bringing children is served (not to mention killing them if they talk about Big Mom). And at least Fishman Island has to leave Big Mom's protection to go under Luffy's like Jimbei desires.
3. The shame of having her super tightly controlled and guarded territory breached by some "rookie" with just a few of his friends, which she was aware of for quite some time now.
Which is why she sent Cracker and Brûlée after Luffy's gang in the Seducing Woods. And why she sent most of her army and started a storm after Luffy propelled Cracker's unconscious body into Sweet City. Just because you get off the wrong foot with somebody does not mean that circumstances can happen that force them work together, understand each other better, and grow to tolerate one another. This wedding's going to be one big disaster, not just from the Straw Hats showing up, but also from Capone's coup, potential antics by Caesar, and Germa 66 likely causing havoc either due to relations souring up (I wouldn't be surprised to see them open the Fishman Island bomb as a wedding gift) or by staging this wedding in the first place in order to take down Big Mom (I've recently been posting in the theories thread about how they could actually be working with Capone and even the Marines/World Government. By taking Big Mom down, the Marines/World Government let them control North Blue again without starting a war, and they still get to go to the Reverie).
Additionally, there are significant hints of Big Mom actually respecting and even liking Luffy to a degree. She still obvious considers him a threat that needs to be dealt with, hence why she sent a whole army after him just recently. But she was actually swayed by Luffy to switch her rage towards destroying Fishman Island to focusing only on the Straw Hat crew's destruction. And this wasn't just a random whim, but consistent with her character of advocating selfishness as the definition of how one should live their lives. The definition of being a pirate. Which is VERY similar to Luffy's definition of being a pirate. Such as when he said (I think it was in Alabasta) during the celebration feast about how he doesn't want to be a hero because heroes have to share their food with everybody, while pirates can eat it all for themselves. Or when he told the Grand Fleet to go screw themselves when they offered to be allies that would constantly back up Luffy because he thinks that their huge presence would be a huge burden. He explicitly says that he wants to become Pirate King, not become some power mogul like most other villains like Shiki in Strong World, but to become "the freest man across the seas". Luffy's dream is basically to not be inhibited by societal rules or needless obligations. He wants to live life selfishly. Big Mom respects that a lot, as seen with how Jimbei offered to leave and didn't question why (explicitly mentioning that everybody should live life the way they want and not be tied down). She just wants an "equal exchange" from Jimbei to make things "fair", whatever that's supposed to mean.
It's because she sees that conviction in Luffy that she let Fishman Island be spared. And why she seemed disappointed when she thought that Luffy didn't beat Cracker the next morning after the fight started.
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You're putting too much thought into Big Mom being a prideful person. She actually seems to highly respect when people have "the nerve" to talk to her on an equal level to get what they want than submit out of fear (which is probably symbolically connected to how she sucks lifespans out of people who exhibit fear and probably can't do that if they aren't scared). It's just that she also doesn't put their desires above her equally valid ones as well, which is why she negotiates in these "equal exchanges" that we've seen with Luffy and Jimbei. Which is why she destroys island territories that don't live up to their agreement of offering sweets each month in "equal exchange" for protection. Hence why she hated how how Pekoms and Tamago offered the Fishman Island treasure as compensation for the loss of the monthly candy tribute, because Big Mom wanted candy and/or vengeance. Luffy just convinced her to get the latter out of destroying him than Fishman Island, and respected his conviction. She was not offended by him being a rookie. If anything, the Yonko that gets offended by rookies messing with their plans is Kaido.
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This is why some sort of "treaty" or game between Luffy and Big Mom is possible after the wedding. Because of their similar beliefs that they can respect in one another, while disagreeing with the methods and wanting to keep those that are valuable to them. Luffy and Jimbei have negotiated before, and they can do it again when Big Mom is knocked down a peg in power and the Straw Hats gain leverage from their forces. Not enough to make Big Mom surrender or get beaten of course, you acknowledge that in all of the allies being built up to take down another Yonko, Kaido. But enough to make Big Mom not want to suffer any more losses after the wedding causes Whole Cake Island to go to hell. Even if Big Mom won, it would be a Pyrrhic victory. She respects Luffy enough to want to negotiate.
4. One of her 4 top most valued personell in her line of command and her son, being trashed (if you look at it from their position and how they found him, he came flying from the forest).
This is why the army was sent after Luffy. The same happened to Urouge when he defeated Sweet General Snack, except that another Sweet General (Cracker) came and warded him off (Brûlée, and probably everybody else too, believes Urouge's dead though). Still doesn't mean that relations can't improve after the chaos of the wedding. Just look at the initial tension between the Straw Hats and the Franky Family in Water 7. What with Usopp getting mugged for cash and beaten to a pulp twice, and the Straw Hats assaulting their base and blowing it up. And then Luffy and Franky's fight in Galley-La. CP9's actions that pulled both parties into the mix by abducting their loved ones got them to make up and see the bigger picture. The same will probably happen in the wedding when Germa 66 and the Firetank Pirates start up a gang war to usurp power. Whenever there's a political marriage in gangster media, that type of event ALWAYS happens. And its the Vinsmokes and Capone who are being built-up to be irredeemable monsters, while Big Mom is certainly a messed up ruler, but at least has some arguable merits and respectable conviction similar to Luffy's.
5. The provocative act of a "rookie" standing in the middle of her headquarters (island) and her inability to get rid of him. Assuming/rooting Luffy and friend(s) pull this off.
Which, again, is why she sent her army after him. And will probably think he's dead until the next day. She's also busy with setting up the wedding, so she's not going to have the proper insight to know about Luffy still being around until the wedding inevitably turns to hell from the Fishman Island explosives wedding gift and a coup. I also explained earlier why Luffy being a rookie and these early tensions between both parties will most likely boil down, and how she likes to negotiate with deals and games.
As a Yonko, Kaido is not the biggest fan of playing "Little Pirate Games". Big Mom seems to disagree. XD
6. Her own powers being used against her is quite shameful. Devil fruits have weaks, in this case her vivre card (physical manifestation of BM´s own soul/life force) seems to be hers.
Except that Big Mom and Lola seem to have a healthy relationship. And Nami has Lola's Vivre Card. AND Lola claimed that the Straw Hats can rely on calling her mother for help if they get into a bind in the New World. Big Mom's Devil Fruit weaknesses will certain
7. Her precious road glyph being "stolen" from under her nose.
Brook and Pedro can get away with it without Big Mom knowing. Although I DEFINITELY think they'll be caught. However, that still doesn't mean Big Mom has to learn that they were successful if they can hide the copied script or somehow steal the whole freaking Road Poneglyph off the island last minute (Luffy mentioned wanting to do that on Zou before getting criticized by Usopp. So there's a legit possibility Luffy will try this, which would be hilarious). I can imagine a situation where she lets the Straw Hats leave Whole Cake Island only to find out at the last minute that they stole the Road Poneglyph, causing her to rampage and compelling the Straw Hats to retreat as fast as possible like they did when Garp assaulted them when they left Water 7 lol.
Speaking of the Road Poneglyph though, another big reason why Big Mom is likely to let the Straw Hats go is to let Luffy take down Kaido. Big Mom has been making these political marriages to form allies. Which gets her territories. Which gives her more power. She has a Road Poneglyph in the first place because she most likely wants to become Pirate Kin-I mean, Queen. Hence why Jimbei gave her the Poneglyph he found in a cover story as a gift right before asking to leave her crew. She just can't read them without having someone like Robin on her crew (which is why I backed a Davy Back Fight being possible earlier in the arc. If Big Mom wins, she can get the whole Straw Hat crew to be minions, including Robin. But I digress…). So it stands to good reason that if the enemy of her enemy is Kaido, which is also another enemy she has due to the Yonko's having stalemated in for years, then she would happily entertain his potential defeat. She has everything to gain from Kaido falling. More territories and an opportunity to get another Road Poneglyph. And most importantly, Caesar. Because she views Caesar Clown's scientific prowess is the key to gigantifying her family, which is her dream. But he has also been invaluable for producing the SAD for the SMILEs that make artificial Zoan soldiers, which is Kaido's dream for having enough forces to initiate his world war. I EXCEPTIONALLY doubt that Oda making Caesar so valuable to two of the Yonko's individual aspirations is a mere coincidence. And the Straw Hats juggling between Big Mom and Kaido's forces so constantly and their reputation being established all the way in Thriller Bark from Lola and Moria makes it that much more likely for these two groups to acknowledge and interact with each other in some way. She could even give Luffy some help to take down Kaido at Wano, although I would prefer not as I want Luffy's own power exclusively to take down a Yonko without help from another one. Just letting him go makes complete sense.
And after they leave, I can definitely see someone like Akainu or Blackbeard taking advantage of Big Mom's weakened kingdom to take her out. I'm betting more on the former for obvious reasons I hinted at before, and because Blackbeard already took down Whitebeard and will definitely slaughter the Red Hair Pirates. Spread the Yonko conquering love around to other factions lol.
8. No power boost from Germa´s technology if the forced marriage plans fail.
While it would be a big loss for her, this isn't going to really matter when relations between the Charlottes and the Vinsmokes probably turns sour from the exchange of wedding gifts having the Fishman Island bomb exploding. Although it's likely for Reiju to take over Germa 66 after the other Vinsmokes are defeated. So she can lend Big Mom assistance without having to force Sanji into a marriage or something. I don't know, that's all unclear. All I'm certain of is that I can see her attending the Reverie in Judge's place after the Totland arc is done.
Basically, if you imagine you are a bigshot who can do everything you like and have been doing that for many years, these actions disrupting your plans or outright beating up your family members, would surely make you furious.
So, it´s not just her selfish acts and and her tantrums which directly or indirectly hurt others, or take away something that a person in a well-functioning society should not be required to give away. It´s also the fact that she has a big ego, who I think is currently being humiliated by a super small group of pirates, which she may have underestimated. Let´s turn this around. Imagine some pirate takes out a SH and then comes to the Sunny, cements his feet in the middle of it, proclaiming he won´t leave until he gets his own way, which goes against Luffy´s plans (err…I mean his dream, as he does not make plans), would Luffy just let him be?
It would actually surprise me if she didn´t hold a grudge against them. So for me the question is if such a big ego can settle for much less than what they are used to get (their own way or bust). She kind of did that with the trasure and Fishman Island, but the current situation is far more serious.
So yeah, I won´t be angry or anything if this ends in a truce (by that I mean anything but a KOed BM) because SHs help her with a Bege betrayal and/or her killing tantrums or something else. But for that to happen, she needs to respect the Strawhats first. So far, they are only making her angrier and I wonder how she will feel if that alliance with Germa 66 does not happen.
I've answered all of this by responding to the earlier parts of your message. But just to reiterate, we've already seen the Straw Hats settle tension with other factions in the past. The Franky Family, the Flying Fish Pirates (Duval's crew), the Shandians, G-5 (Smoker's Marine group), and make unlikely allies in the form of Robin, Brownbeard, and inevitably Reiju. Big Mom's just the next form of that with the Vinsmokes and Bege in line to take over as the main arc antagonists. And regardless of if my theory on the Germa throwing a coup is false, they can still sour their relationship with Big Mom on their own from the Fishman Island explosives being handed to them as a wedding gift. So Big Mom does not have to blame Luffy for that. Big Mom does not have as much of an ego issue as you claim, her psychology is way more complex than that. Down to possibly having a mental illness lol.
There´s a lot at stake for everyone involved with many situations to resolve. I love it.
Same. I love organized crime stories like this lol.
Spoiler:
"Life's not about finding out which card is yours, but finding out which cards you're not."
I don't know, but his reaction was surprise and disgust. Whatever Vito told him, Sanji still want to resolve the issue and return back to the SHs. Sanji gave up completely after he was shown the picture of Zeff.
Second thought ivankovs head is too big for small present box:ninja:
Deus ex machine: an unexpected power or event saving a seemingly hopeless situation, especially as a contrived plot device in a play or novel.
It hasappened plenty times especially for Luffy, not to talk of other smaller characters. In Logue town with Dragon; in Saboady archipelago with Kuma; in Fishmongers island with the sea monsters; at the Battle of the white beard vs world government with the the arrival of Shanks. It will happen here again no doubt because Luffy won't budge.I meant to say Sanji left his crew for a pathetic reason and he even thought never to return. That is not the way of a true Mugiwara. Not so late in the manga. These characters have developed to such a level that nothing should shake them easily. Especially a clear headed third most powerful character like Sanji. And yes, on a lighter note, Raleigh said he left Luffy after teaching him all he knew. Without Raleigh's intervention for Camie (another deus ex machina), she might have died. Luffy might have reckoned that was a neat trick to learn seeing that it saved her life with a flip of the wrist.
So I'm really just going to address the deus ex machina stuff. To me, there are different levels of Deus Ex Machina. The only type that is "bad" to me is when a character that had no reason to be there stops the opposition. The example I always think of is in Bleach when Kenpachi stops Nnoitra from taking out Ichigo from literally nowhere. There was no indication that he or the captains were even IN Hueco Mundo. That will always mark the downhill part of Hueco Mundo to me; Ichigo could have conceivably beat Nnoitra (with the help of Nel if she was more powerful) and the suspense and drama was all very tangible at that moment. Then bam, Kenpachi. And a lot of captains. Hueco Mundo was so appealing before that.
So that's the worst level, characters with no reason to be there save the day.
The one I will slightly concede to you being at that level is Shanks. Slightly. Not fully because Shanks DID have a vested interest in Blackbeard, and likely had a stake in Ace's life (due to Ace being Luffy's brother). Did he arrive there very quickly, yes. But he had every reason to be at that war, especially since it was well known that Luffy was there. It was a graceful end to the war after 2 of the main objectives (Marine-wise) were resolved, Ace dying and Whitebeard dying. Beyond that the war would have been a waste of time for the reader. Had to come to a stop somehow.
Loguetown with Dragon is deus ex machina. Still well-written. Deus ex machina =/= bad.
Kuma you don't have a case with. That was traumatic and horrible for the crew at the time. We already knew Kuma was capable of sending people places. He was close-by in location. He had every reason to be there and to want to help Luffy out of that exceedingly overwhelming series of high threats. Same reasoning with Rayleigh.
? I'd have to re-read that part of FI. Don't recall that being D.E.M.
All of this said. I am curious what could happen here with Luffy that you would NOT consider deus ex machina.
Croc or Enel would never.
Wanna see the "ancient civilization destroyed" thing done really well? FFXIV did a great take on it. The bar's high for One Piece to beat.
@Count:
That's certainly a valid point. But the souls are still utilized for the benefit of the kingdom in the Homies' usefulness. So I would still argue that it's fair. It's the New World, there's bound to be risks involved when you decide to live in a pirate-protected territory rather than being protected by the Marines/World Government. Even though Shanks and Whitebeard probably don't ask for anything in return, I wouldn't say this is enough to make a case for Big Mom being unjustifiably corrupt in and of itself.
And this is definitely MUCH better than Dressrosa.
I agree with it not being enough to call her unjustifiably corrupt and I especially agree with her being morally grey. However I disagree about that really everyone can decide on the own.
http://www.mangareader.net/one-piece/835/5
As we can see there are also children in the row. Whereas it's not absolutely completely sure, it's heavily implied nevertheless that also these children have to give up lifetime. So what happens if the parents are fine, but the children are totally against it? Do they really have a choice? And do the children even grasp well enough what they are doing there?
I'd say it has the potential to be fair - if some requirements are fulfilled such as not taking lifetime until a certain age as well as ensuring that whoever wants to leave is safely brought to another territory. However, I sincerely doubt it.
But yes, I absolutely don't know what to think of Big Mom - which, of course, is a good thing! 
Forum user Bartholemew Bear passed away in a very moving and touching way. I, ARTEMlS, therefore carry on the Will of DArth for good unto its final fulfilment.
@Bartholemew:
I agree with it not being enough to call her unjustifiably corrupt and I especially agree with her being morally grey. However I disagree about that really everyone can decide on the own.
http://www.mangareader.net/one-piece/835/5
As we can see there are also children in the row. Whereas it's not absolutely completely sure, it's heavily implied nevertheless that also these children have to give up lifetime. So what happens if the parents are fine, but the children are totally against it? Do they really have a choice? And do the children even grasp well enough what they are doing there?
I'd say it has the potential to be fair - if some requirements are fulfilled such as not taking lifetime until a certain age as well as ensuring that whoever wants to leave is safely brought to another territory. However, I sincerely doubt it.
But yes, I absolutely don't know what to think of Big Mom - which, of course, is a good thing!
Another certainly valid point. I could argue that the children wouldn't think it's a big deal at their age, but that still doesn't make it right for them to unknowingly consent. I could also point out how they have much more lifespan space compared to adults (unless they have cancer or a high early heart failure rate…), but that still doesn't exactly justify it either lol. I agree that exceptions should be made for children. Safe transportation out of Totland is another shaky area though, a bit of a whole other can of beans. And it's not like going to other territories spares them from Big Mom destroying those area if they fail to pay their monthly candy quotas. But it's still not okay to just throw them out into the wild of the sea or other Yonko territories with different rules if they value the length of their lives that much. It's not fair to judge people for that at all, to force to give up their lives even if it's just a tiny bit at a time. Every second can have relative value for an individual.
At the end of the day, having soul donation being an option is the best ethical decision (I'm talking about not being forced to leave if you don't want to comply, to be specific). I just don't think it's fair to compare this to how bad Sugar's freaking toy amnesia antics were lol, that was straight up enslaving political prisoners and erasing their existence at the same time. Big Mom's got a whole other mess of wrongful deeds that are much more immoral than the soul tributes alone, which should be the primary focus of why she should reform or get taken down (not that the soul tributes still can't be a factor).
Big Mom could easily shoot straight up to becoming one of my favorite One Piece antagonists at this rate. 
Spoiler:
"Life's not about finding out which card is yours, but finding out which cards you're not."
@Count:
At the end of the day, having soul donation being an option is the best ethical decision. I just don't think it's fair to compare this to how bad Sugar's freaking toy amnesia antics were lol, that was straight up enslaving political prisoners and erasing their existence at the same time
Is it, though ? Using Jinbei's case as reference, it would seem that if you held any semblance of importance in Big Mom's crew, the choice becomes "give away your life expectancy or leave_-and-lose-a-limb-your-head-or-god-knows-what._" That's not exactly my definition for freedom of choice, the worst part being that for all we know a similar sort of blackmail could also apply to ordinary citizens of Totland.
Despite a very well argumented case, I still think you're being too forgiving with Big Mom : granted she is neither an advocate of chaos like Doflamingo, nor a straightforward bloodthirster à la Kaido, but at the end of the day Totland isn't unlike Doflamingo's Dressrosa. At first it looks like a dreamland, and those who abide by the rule certainly live their lives to the fullest. But their happiness comes at a very personal cost (memories / life expectancy), is built on the blood of other countries (weapons smuggling / pillaging for ingredients) and however you may describe it, leaving isn't something you are truly free to do (toyification / the dread roulette).
I think explosives handling is a Rayleigh exclusive skill. Plus Sanji has given no indication he's not concerned about the bracelets. I can't imagine Luffy having such a skill either. He's not a finesse sort of character. Or a magician.
LOL, Rayleigh is not a magician either. Whatever he did that day has something to do with Haki. The Wristlets will come off either by them stealing keys from Big Mom or Luffy performing same skill.
IF YOU DIE, I'LL KILL YOU….
I didn't say Luffy should have used it. I only mentioned that as a possible sweet power for Luffy to have that could be used to help Sanji out his predicament.
Yes, deus ex machina is not always bad and varies from situation to situation but it can tiring. It's subtle use is Oda's specialty. I really don't know how he's going to pull it off here because I doubt very much that Luffy and Nami can beat up the whole army and still wait for Sanji. It's the last pages has fully set Pudding up to confront Bigmom with a forced deal to let them off or she might use a yet to be determined power to change the course of events. Those three eyes must mean something otherworldly in my opinion.
After Luffy had managed to beat cracker and reach Sanji, I had imagined they'd play fight so that Sanji could apprise Luffy of the situation and plot a stratagem of escape. In one scenario, I imagined Luffy will peel off the damned bracelet and they will cut and run leaving everyone chasing them into that annoying garden, there they might delay and wreak pandemonium while Brook and Petrol find space and the Bropper crew find Intel and an escape route from Brulee's nightmarish powers. They all then manage somehow to meet on a thousand sunny where Pekoms and their new Nakama await them. Then they fly away from Totland. While they escape Luffy gets in touch with his Bro and Zeff becomes the cook for the revolutionary army. But I guess this is too convenient and simplistic.
Oda is a magician and a true master of the tale. I can't wait to see what he has in store for us.
Is it, though ? Using Jinbei's case as reference, it would seem that if you held any semblance of importance in Big Mom's crew, the choice becomes "give away your life expectancy or leave_-and-lose-a-limb-your-head-or-god-knows-what._" That's not exactly my definition for freedom of choice, the worst part being that for all we know a similar sort of blackmail could also apply to ordinary citizens of Totland.
Despite a very well argumented case, I still think you're being too forgiving with Big Mom : granted she is neither an advocate of chaos like Doflamingo, nor a straightforward bloodthirster à la Kaido, but at the end of the day Totland isn't unlike Doflamingo's Dressrosa.
Jimbei's case is different in the first place though because of being in Big Mom's crew, like you said. I'm only talking about being a Totland citizen. Big Mom's still a pretty messed up person. Just arguably one of the most "lenient" antagonists we've seen. Jimbei's situation is most likely inspired by gangster conventions (mainly the Yakuza, although I have seen it for the Italian-American Mafia a couple of times in other fictional media) of losing body parts (mainly fingers) as a punishment or form of apology, or at least ambushing them into submission if you're a street gang (but that kind of goes the same for initiation too lol). It's not the most accommodating freedom of choice, obviously. But it's still at least a CHOICE. Past antagonist groups treat leaving as insubordination that always MUST be punished.
But that's still just about being a crew member the discussion I was having with Bartholomew was solely about the soul donation trade on its own. I'm not trying to say that "Big Mom is the coolest gal!" or anything that asinine. Just that she's different from the type of antagonists we're used to in certain respects that aren't as straight-up immoral and irredeemable. Still arguably corrupt in most cases, but not AS corrupt.
Also, you're equating similar plot elements to mean that they are similar in severity. And the connection between some of those comparisons don't work that well regardless.
At first it looks like a dreamland, and those who abide by the rule certainly live their lives to the fullest. But their happiness comes at a very personal cost (memories / life expectancy),
A cost that is a choice, and is dedicated to benefitting the overall life of Totland than some selfish reason like immortality. Also, no, giving up a month of your lifespan every six months is not equivalent to becoming a slave made to constantly work without being able to talk for dissenting with the ruler, and having your entire existence forgotten by anybody who has ever met you.
is built on the blood of other countries (weapons smuggling / pillaging for ingredients)
Which I do not justify in the slightest in my past posts. I'm talking solely about the soul donation tax as a vice in and of itself. Not how Big Mom rules overall, but just lifespan tributes.
leaving isn't something you are truly free to do (toyification / the dread roulette).
Being toy-ified was never a choice to begin with lol. Nobody even knew how the toys on Dressrosa were made outside of the Donquixote Pirates, Kyros, and the Dwarves. Meanwhile, we still don't know how that roulette operates and exactly what stakes are involved. And again, the roulette relates to being a Big Mom crew member. Not the soul tax. And at least she is open to potentially letting crewmates leave. That still doesn't justify going all Yakuza, but at least it's not mandatory die-hard loyalty.
Big Mom should not be allowed to continue ruling her territories, family, and crew the way she does. I don't disagree with that one bit. She goes way too far in how she destroys islands that fail to pay monthly candy tributes, forces her own children into political marriages, and treats ex-husbands as expendable stepping stones that aren't true family and can't see their own kids. Those acts are unforgivable. The soul tax and how crewmates are "allowed" to leave are much more arguable. They are nowhere as forceful and mortifying as Sugar's antics.
But I respect your own case though. I just hope you don't think that I am advocating Big Mom as a great queen/captain/mother in general. I'm only focusing on specific acts and stipulations relatively. I support that ALL OF THESE THINGS, even the "lesser" misdeeds like forced soul tax and supposedly demanding limbs in exchange for leaving her crew need to STOP. The soul donation shtick should at least not be a mandatory tax but an option (sort of like blood drives akin to the healthy Dressrosa citizens and Marines offering Mansherry their blood at the end of Dressrosa to empower her healing abilities in the wake of Dressrosa's destruction and Doflamingo's downfall), which I conceited conceded (lol) earlier to Bartholomew. I hope we've come to a mutual understanding now.
The blackmail possibility is still just a possibility we have no confirmation on. And to be honest, I'm really hoping she doesn't pull a Doflamingo with that. I'm really liking how Big Mom's character is all about making these Mafia-esque offers that you cannot refuse. She's a huge stickler for the other party sticking to their word and wanting "equal exchange". To pull some twist where it's all like "Oh, you want to leave my kingdom because you don't like my soul tax? Don't worry, I'll just take the burden your ENTIRE souls off of your hands" where she defies her honest convictional standards would be disappointingly cheap. But that's just my opinion and not a fact, of course lol. I find much more appeal in how Big Mom is dangerous mainly due to the high risks and stakes for getting involved with her than being as deceitful and cunning as Blackbeard in comparison.
Spoiler:
"Life's not about finding out which card is yours, but finding out which cards you're not."
LOL, Rayleigh is not a magician either. Whatever he did that day has something to do with Haki. The Wristlets will come off either by them stealing keys from Big Mom or Luffy performing same skill.
Slight of Hand haki? :ninja:. I just don't feel everything should cool should be explained with haki either.
Removing bracelets doesn't require special powers or such an amazing skills that only a few can have, it requires speed and observation Haki to know the right moment the bracelet is gonna explode.
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Or you just use a key :p
Rayleigh fought a guy that can move at the speed of light so he def has the speed to do it and the only thing you could say haki wise is that he used observation. He has the strength to do it so is it really that out there that he can do something like rip an exploding collar off before it explodes?
I like that Luffy will stand its ground, if Sanji has a plan or not shrug. Sanji is always the type to get heavily wounded in his fights before the time skip. So it came to no surprise that he got a fractured bone, or was going to get killed by Mingo. I think Doffy was an exception though. He had a vicious fighting style which I don't think many could survive, regardless if you were strong or not. Vergo's fight was going to be typical Sanji, get messed up, but overcome. We also cannot forget that his body had been blasted while Nami was using it and Ceasar attacked. Although, I don't think many consider stamina a thing to consider.
Maybe Luffy gets help, regardless, this would be one of the best scoops for Absalom to be there. All the juicy info. Jimbe is the best option to help Luffy out. A good fight to cement Jimbe joining the crew, with Nami supporting. Glorious. Given that the roulette of Big Mom was (Lifespan, Face, Arms, Legs), what would happend if you hit the bullseye, you don't lose anything? And because Jimbe is my boy, he hit that, and then Big Mom was pissed, Jimbe escaped.
Also wonder what is the sacrifice Big Mom was talking about when prepping for the wedding.
I hope Nami's new clima-tact is able to absorb Zeus and Prometheus with some dial technology. Do Big Mom's objects remain even if she loses consciousness/dies?
Time for chapter comparisons! Despite a lot of dialogue this week, there weren't as many significant differences as there often are, for whatever that's worth.
Linlin: Welcome, Germa 66! So sorry about the wait! We had a little problem! But it's all sorted now. Oh, but I've heard all the rumors! Your son is a cook–the perfect match for my Pudding! Of course, he could be anything, for all I care. It's a political marriage! As long as my interests and yours align, all is well, Judge! Haaa ha ha ha!
Judge: Indeed…but there is nothing better than our children being happy! To a fine wedding tomorrow!
Linlin: Of course! I'll drink to that!
Hidden:
I'm not sure why some people are still doubting that Vito was whispering about Zeff to convince him to come to the Tea Party.
The reason Sanji was surprised when Judge made the threat is obviously because he expected that the threat was only coming from Big Mom.
If the threat was only coming from her, he could still have hope to cancel the wedding. Maybe he planned to convince her that the Vinsmoke are not worth it or that the "deal" isn't fair since Judge isn't actually giving anything since he don't consider Sanji as one of his sons.
T
- The nicknames/descriptions of Bobbin and the others are a bit different: "I don't believe this! There's Bobbin the Disposer, Amande the Mad Moiselle and Montd'or the Secretary! Can you imagine the total bounty of that crowd?!"
Mad(a) Moiselle
That's a great one,up there with isntannoite.
just googled Amande and it seems it's a fruit of some sort.Googled bobbin and it seems it's this ,not seemingly related to any sort of food.what' the deal with that?seems suspicious,given how almost every BM member has been food themed.well,there's lola and bege and others,but they are not really a part of BM's crew.and he was introduced at the same time as Tamago and pekoms,so it's not like Oda didn't thought on the food-themed names that before.it's possible there could be another title for Bobbin,given that he also hasn't got a intro-box
also Montd'or doesn't seem that strong,but being mentioned by name means he must be
also,i think there was one other person in that chapter where all the people preparing stuff for the wedding cake were shown,wit the big hat.do we know who he really is?
Time for chapter comparisons! Despite a lot of dialogue this week, there weren't as many significant differences as there often are, for whatever that's worth.
VIZ name of the chapter: "Forces of Rage".
When Nami is talking to Luffy about him waiting there, MS has a pair of bubbles that say, "If you stay out in the open like, the enemies might…But Sanji..." making it unclear whether it's Nami talking still in both of them, or Luffy in the second one. VIZ makes it clearer that it's still Nami: "So if you wait, enemies will come…but I don't think Sanji..."
Both versions do have a chapter title drop on the page that shows the Germa carriage from behind. In MS, it's "Clear the way! The enraged army is coming through!" VIZ: "Make way, make way! The forces of rage are passing through!"
The nicknames/descriptions of Bobbin and the others are a bit different: "I don't believe this! There's Bobbin the Disposer, Amande the Mad Moiselle and Montd'or the Secretary! Can you imagine the total bounty of that crowd?!"
VIZ handles the mizuame pun thusly: "It's raining. No, wait…it's syrup! So it's…'drizzling'?"
After Dolce and Dragée refuse to get a knife for Anana, the third child says something completely different in the two versions. In MS, it sounds like he agrees with his siblings: "Yeah, Mama, don't encourage such psychotic behavior like that!" But in VIZ, he's questioning their words: "They shouldn't use those wicked words, should they Mama?"
The dialogue between Big Mom and Judge is a bit different, too:
Pudding is still talking about Sanji potentially escaping in the present tense, so she's still willing to help him with that: "If it's about the invitation, I can take the blame! I'm her daughter–I'll be fine! Just don't appear at the ceremony, or it's all over!" (Also, once again mentions that she'll be fine because she's Big Mom's daughter in this version. Foreshadowing?)
Sanji also mentions wanting Big Mom to let his friends go in the present tense: "And in return, I want Big Mom to let my people go. They're going after our crew at this very moment!"
The last two bubbles of Pudding's speech clarifies, "You've never actually once said that you were even going to marry me!" (The "but here I am just assuming" part isn't there at all.)
Otherwise, though, Sanji's and Pudding's dialogue to each other is pretty similar between the two versions.
the way mangastream phrased it led a lot of people to believe pudding was lying bu pudding saying sanji never agreed to get married doesnt coflict with anything
Chapter 437 Discussion after franky decides to join the Strawhats:
So who think Usopp is inside that duffelbag?
H x H Chimera Ant Arc / OP Manga Spoiler
Spoiler:
@Count:
I hope we've come to a mutual understanding now.
The blackmail possibility is still just a possibility we have no confirmation on. And to be honest, I'm really hoping she doesn't pull a Doflamingo with that. I'm really liking how Big Mom's character is all about making these Mafia-esque offers that you cannot refuse.
We have, and I do concede that the mafia boss trait makes her a very compelling antagonist. Regardless, she has certainly inspired a LOT of writing which if anything is a testament to her quality as a character.
@Long:
the way mangastream phrased it led a lot of people to believe pudding was lying bu pudding saying sanji never agreed to get married doesnt coflict with anything
tbh it was pretty clear what pudding said,but yeah now no one can make claims on shaky semantics
We have, and I do concede that the mafia boss trait makes her a very compelling antagonist. Regardless, she has certainly inspired a LOT of writing which if anything is a testament to her quality as a character.
Good. At the end of the day, everything Big Mom's doing from top to bottom needs a total rehaul.
And the topic doesn't have to be about a character as epically multi-dimensional as Big Mom to get me to endlessly rant lol. Blame that on my pretentious writing style… And my love for organized crime-themed stories lol. Yeah, I'm loving both her and this arc in general. But all of this talk about how Big Mom rules her territories make me wonder how Kaido and Blackbeard rule theirs. Especially with how obviously corrupt and destructive they are. But with Shanks and also Whitebeard's reign, I doubt that ask for anything.
- The nicknames/descriptions of Bobbin and the others are a bit different: "I don't believe this! There's Bobbin the Disposer, Amande the Mad Moiselle and Montd'or the Secretary! Can you imagine the total bounty of that crowd?!"
Bobbin "the Disposer" is a bit cool, I guess… I will always think of him as "Thrifty" Bobbin though.
Amande the "Mad Moiselle" is PERFECT though. I'm always in the mood for delicious puns, and this is easily one of the cleverest/best epithets I've seen in the series. Also, her previous epithet of "Demon Lady" bothered me because of how much Oda/ViZ likes to repetitively incorporate "Demon" into epithets. "Demon Bamboo" Vergo. "Heavenly Demon" Doflamingo. "Demon Sheriff" Lafitte. Not to mention the epithets with "Devil". Of course, there are bound to be reused terms, of course.
Montd'or "the Secretary" is... Hilarious. Almost as good as "Thrifty" Bobbin. Montd'or "the Scribe" sounded a bit badass, but I'm even more curious now to see where his epithet comes from.
If the thing between Bigmom's devil fruit(devil fruit's essence as Black beard called it) and her vivre cards is the same for other similar DF types, then someone with Sugar's vivre card can control/order the toys as well as someone with Moria's vivre card can order the zombie around..etc
Unless it's only Soul soul fruit specific it should be possible for the others.
If I'd been made to guess, I would have predicted the rain just being sugar water, since that's an actual thing. But syrup? Ugh, just imagine how sticky everything's going to be…
If I'd been made to guess, I would have predicted the rain just being sugar water, since that's an actual thing. But syrup? Ugh, just imagine how sticky everything's going to be…
I guess you could call Luffy and Nami's predicament a… sticky situation.
!
! No regrets.
! drops the mic
Spoiler:
"Life's not about finding out which card is yours, but finding out which cards you're not."
spoiler alert+
Sanji ends up losing his hands but can still cook with his feet just fine.
@Count:
I guess you could call Luffy and Nami's predicament a… sticky situation.
! https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/96/96/21/969621468807bf28c436eec847765251.jpg
! No regrets.
! drops the mic
I can't decide if I love this or if it makes me want to punch you. A little of both, really.
spoiler alert+
Sanji ends up losing his hands but can still cook with his feet just fine.
Sanji doesn't use his hands for fighting for a reason.
spoiler alert+
Sanji ends up losing his hands but can still cook with his feet just fine.
If you're from the future, then I have a question. Can Jinbei fit through Sunny's doors?
The face of a Straw Hat.
I can't decide if I love this or if it makes me want to punch you. A little of both, really.
Love taps are always one of the most sincere signs of mutual affection.
@The:
If you're from the future, then I have a question. Can Jinbei fit through Sunny's doors?
Now that his head is chopped off, abso-lutely.
