So I have only recently take a look at Orojackson due to how often they are mention. Where do they post their randoms factoids like panel times? Is there a special section or do you have to actually search for it?
I don't know exactly, I just googled it. Here's the link: https://orojackson.com/threads/character-panel-time.32475/
Plausible: Shanks is actually two lesbian space rocks fused together into a single person.
Oda's unpredictable man, anything could happen. He's been inspired by Game of Thrones, he could totally be inspired by Steven Universe.
Also, he ripped off the entire plot of the series from Mysterious Cities of Gold, a french cartoon that aired in Japan once for three months when Oda was seven. Oda has said he was inspired by Vicky the Viking, and never once mentioned the other show, so it's totally possible he's not ever mentioned it because he has to keep that secret close to the vest so people don't learn his grand master plan of ripping it off.
Calm your horses. You completely misunderstood (deliberately?) what I was saying. Obviously Luffy was the most pissed off in the map room of AP, but I'm saying that Usopp getting beat up by the Franky family might be the second angriest Luffy's ever been (at that point in the series anyways).
I'm fairly sure he was pissed with Croc when the country was about to die in top of castle. And also when he met with Enel and told him that he had no right to kill all those people. I also think he was extremely mad for Chouchou's store.
Carue was 19th in terms of panel time in Alabasta, that's not high at all.
Think of Marguerite from Amazon Lilly instead.
Ignore the panels then, we'll count highlighted moments. Lets compare Carrot (supposedly just an exposition tool for sulong) to Chopper (an actual member of the strawhats).
She was highlighted more than an actual crewmember without yet having a clear plot-related reason for being on WCI. That's not irrelevant.
An actual crewmember doesn't have to prove his importance anymore. They have already made the cut and can let other that needs to make their proof take center stage. I mean Pedro blew up and fought the chicken, Pound saved his daughter. There's plenty that have done more Chopper in terms of impact.
That Shanks - Imu theory had to be after 907. Because linking shanks to Imu after 906 is super random. It still fails after 907 because Imu has 2 hands something the guy making the theory actually forgot.
Not to mention how there'd have to be clark kent level logic and many phone boothes in mariejois to trick the gorosei so they wouldnt know. If they did know the would have been more friendlier to shanks. The theory doesn't deserve to be defended.
@Cyan:
Franky's design was so obviously made for the crew that it almost seems like Oda was parodying himself.
yeah like France was obviously world champion 20 years after 1998
sorry i'm a bit drunk…
Used to be a women, likely had to turn into a man to get stronger. If only Kuina met with Ivankov when the revolutionaries were staying nearby. Would have been the best instead of Zoro.
Seriously though, how many "zany" theories have actually come true throughout this 900+ chapter series? Only one I can think of is Sanji being a prince.
Originally Posted by MrBits
Place your bets. Is [AlphaMale/AlphaBro, an obvious ban evader] going to get banned again today, tomorrow, or in a week?
Originally Posted by AlphaBro
okay let's bet . Would love to see your losing face next week !
An actual bet and conversation on the Chapter 905 thread, literally an hour before he got banned again.
I don't know exactly, I just googled it. Here's the link: https://orojackson.com/threads/character-panel-time.32475/
Interesting. Usopp has more panel time than Zoro. Vivi is right after the crew. And Law is crazily high
Anyway. Tashigi had more panel time than Robin or Brook in Punk Hazard. It didn't mean she was as improtant as a crew member bbut rather that to feature a character Oda had to take away some from others.
In a similar fashion you can see that Rebecca comes before the whole crew in Dressrosa. It doesn't mean she was more important than Usopp. It means that she was featured a lot and got time to interact. Carrot is similar. You will notice that Kyros and Rebecca were close due to interecting a lot and being lump together. A similar thing happen with Carrot and Chopper. During this arc they are a pair and it's no surpise they share a similar amount of exposure because they are mostly together.a
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Well, Crocodile used to be a woman so I don't see why Shanks being two separate characters is so unlikely.
See even Croc understood he had to become a man to be successful in this world. At best Shanks is the son of those rocks.
Seriously though, how many "zany" theories have actually come true throughout this 900+ chapter series? Only one I can think of is Sanji being a prince.
Depends on what you mean by "zany" and how far you stretch it. Tons of predicted stuff has been fully acurate in terms of the overall story or steps of an arc. Things like Buggy becoming a warlord, Lola being Big Mom's daughter, or the masked guy Duval being Sanji's bad wanted poster were all spot on. I think someone actually called Brook being part of the Rumba pirates before we got to the flashback. A lot of us assumed Sabo might get Ace's fruit even before he actually reappeared in Dresserossa.
As a whole we can't really predict Oda when it comes to brand new characters or action/powers, because that's the truly random stuff where even he can change his mind from week to week and the "anything can happen" mantra comes into play. (Even Oda himself apparently hadn't decided which specific Galley La members would be CP9 yet when he introduced the lot of them.) I don't think it would be possible for anyone to have guessed that Kaku would have a giraffe fruit for instance. Also, stuff that Oda intentionally hides like Garp's face (and thus his being Luffy's grandfather) is something we can't guess without baseless random guessing, because he specifically withheld information there. Or when he intentionally breaks pattern like Luffy's latest bounty. We mostly assumed Luffy would reach that level after Kaidou, not before… and I don't think anyone considered him becoming a fifth emporer at this point in the story because that's a big crazy thing.
But the bigger long term stuff Oda plays fair with his setups and we're usually pretty good about getting.
Anyway. Tashigi had more panel time than Robin or Brook in Punk Hazard. It didn't mean she was as improtant as a crew member bbut rather that to feature a character Oda had to take away some from others.
Tashigi was arguably more important than Robin and Brook in Punk Hazard, though.
In a similar fashion you can see that Rebecca comes before the whole crew in Dressrosa. It doesn't mean she was more important than Usopp. It means that she was featured a lot and got time to interact. Carrot is similar. You will notice that Kyros and Rebecca were close due to interecting a lot and being lump together. A similar thing happen with Carrot and Chopper. During this arc they are a pair and it's no surpise they share a similar amount of exposure because they are mostly together.
Rebecca got a lot more emotional and narrative focus than Usopp in the arc. Take all these flashbacks and the fact we spent so much time in her backstory with the soldier. Usopp was very important to the arc due to what he did, but he didn't get half the focus Rebecca had.
I mean, if a character has panel time it's because it gets focus. This focus is not correlated to relevance, but it is pretty terrible judgement to take a prominently featured character (which is what panel time measures) and say that such character is completely irrelevant. That's just saying that Oda draws characters because he feels like. Hey, Carrot has the 6th panel time in WC, Oda probably just likes drawing bunnies. No, it doesn't work like that.
We can of course debate if the panel time of Carrot amounts to or accurately represents her actual relevance on the arc. We would probably not disagree that much. But since people in this thread like to pick extremes, they are calling her irrelevant. A character Oda cared to draw and insert in the action so much she got 6th in panel time.
It's kind of the same as this new mention on Im and Shanks. Im and Shanks being the same was implausible after chapter 907, and impossible after chapter 908. Neither of them convinced me one bit, but they did not hold the exact same chance. Degrees exist. Things are not black or white.
That, aside from this random rant on OroJackson and their theorists when all the stuff that was brought from there was factual information. Panel time. You can count that yourself and reach the same conclusions. The interpretation of this set of data is being elaborated here.
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or the masked guy Duval being Sanji's bad wanted poster were all spot on.
This one is actually amazing. Props to whoever predicted that.
Imagine, we could be living in a timeline where a fredy mercury lookalike fought Luffy to a standstill.
Tashigi was arguably more important than Robin and Brook in Punk Hazard, though.
I guess. But it didn't mean in terms of crewmenship. She didn't become as important as a strawhat but rather strawhats became existent to make some place for her.
Rebecca got a lot more emotional and narrative focus than Usopp in the arc. Take all these flashbacks and the fact we spent so much time in her backstory with the soldier. Usopp was very important to the arc due to what he did, but he didn't get half the focus Rebecca had.
Usopp was more involved into the plot between his meeting the dwarves, taking care of Sugar, motivating troops and discovering haki. HE was in pretty much everything and proeminent in a lot. Rebecca was the support to Kyros quest. YEt their different level of importance was not reflect in their panel time. You have to have at least see why this panel time exist and what it was dedicated to.
I mean, if a character has panel time it's because it gets focus. This focus is not correlated to relevance, but it is pretty terrible judgement to take a prominently featured character (which is what panel time measures) and say that such character is completely irrelevant. That's just saying that Oda draws characters because he feels like. Hey, Carrot has the 6th panel time in WC, Oda probably just likes drawing bunnies. No, it doesn't work like that.
Which is why I mentioned that Chopper has about the same which is no surprise since they were foiled to each other and constantly paired. My point isn't Oda like drawing Buny girl but Oda had Carrot as Chopper's companion/foil and got featured as such.
We can of course debate if the panel time of Carrot amounts to or accurately represents her actual relevance on the arc. We would probably not disagree that much. But since people in this thread like to pick extremes, they are calling her irrelevant. A character Oda cared to draw and insert in the action so much she got 6th in panel time.
I am doing so and pointing out that her role as Chopper's companion is why they have similar amount of appearance. And it's not a new argument since most people against Carrot mentioned how her intereacting with the crew and paired with Chopper as a little sister was her thing.
I'm fairly sure he was pissed with Croc when the country was about to die in top of castle. And also when he met with Enel and told him that he had no right to kill all those people. I also think he was extremely mad for Chouchou's store.
I don't know, I see Luffy's cold anger as him being more pissed off than his screaming anger. His screaming anger is generally more due to being pumped up and being super determined to win a fight. When he's just frowning with shaded eyes he seems angrier to me.
Think of Marguerite from Amazon Lilly instead.
Its not hard to have a relatively high amount of panel time in an arc with few characters and only a single main character present. The only character of any note that she had more panels then was Grandma Nyon. Every other character in that arc was little more than a background character.
An actual crewmember doesn't have to prove his importance anymore. They have already made the cut and can let other that needs to make their proof take center stage. I mean Pedro blew up and fought the chicken, Pound saved his daughter. There's plenty that have done more Chopper in terms of impact.
I'm looking through the lists of panel times for every arc, and I'm seeing a very consistent pattern emerge: The only characters who have more panel time than strawhats in any given arcs are one of three things. 1) Villains. 2) Plot relevant characters. 3) New crewmates.
Since Carrot isn't one of the first two, I'm left with only one conclusion…
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@Long:
It still fails after 907 because Imu has 2 hands something the guy making the theory actually forgot.
FUCK
I am legitimately retarded. Forget what I said, that theory never made any sense.
Purely coincidence
Usopp was more involved into the plot between his meeting the dwarves, taking care of Sugar, motivating troops and discovering haki. HE was in pretty much everything and proeminent in a lot. Rebecca was the support to Kyros quest. YEt their different level of importance was not reflect in their panel time. You have to have at least see why this panel time exist and what it was dedicated to.
Not the same as being relevant in the narrative. I don't think it's about feats and specific actions, but rather about the focus Oda puts on the character. Rebecca had an elaborate backstory that Oda turned into one of the main narrative points through the arc of Dressrosa. That's why she got her focus and consequently her panel time.
Which is why I mentioned that Chopper has about the same which is no surprise since they were foiled to each other and constantly paired. My point isn't Oda like drawing Buny girl but Oda had Carrot as Chopper's companion/foil and got featured as such.
Well, I didn't say that Chopper was irrelevant.
On the other hand, calling Carrot "Chopper's companion/foil" is kind of tricky wording. These two characters had similar presence and relevance in the action because they teamed up and had adventures together. Forming a tag team doesn't in any way diminish the relevance of either in the arc. If anything, it brings it to a similar level. Relevance does not need to be individualized, much less by deciding randomly who is the main and who is the sidekick in a tag team.
I love Carrot, and I hope her journey will lead to something awesome, but FIFY
@AvocadoInTheRain:
- Villains. 2) Plot relevant characters. 3) New crewmates.
Since Carrot isn't one of the first and the third, I'm left with only one conclusion…
I don't think it would be possible for anyone to have guessed that […] Or when he intentionally breaks pattern like Luffy's latest bounty. We mostly assumed Luffy would reach that level after Kaidou, not before… and I don't think anyone considered him becoming a fifth emporer at this point in the story because that's a big crazy thing.
ahem…
You may bow before my magnificent foresight, for I, NOSTRADAMUS, know all!!!!
Purely coincidence
I'm looking through the lists of panel times for every arc, and I'm seeing a very consistent pattern emerge: The only characters who have more panel time than strawhats in any given arcs are one of three things. 1) Villains. 2) Plot relevant characters. 3) New crewmates.
Since Carrot isn't one of the first two, I'm left with only one conclusion…
Does villain mean the main villain?
And what does plot relevant mean? It seems extremely vague.
ahah, this is indeed funny
ahem…
You may bow before my magnificent foresight, for I, NOSTRADAMUS, know all!!!!
Wow you manage to predict something as arbitrary as the bounty.
Now have you manage to predict anything that actually matters, or are we supposed to bow down because of this? Like I don't see the point of posting this here.
ahem…
You may bow before my magnificent foresight, for I, NOSTRADAMUS, know all!!!!
I mean, you predicted just after Luffy defeated Katakuri and Robby pretty much meant about times when we didn't knew Katakuri Vs Luffy would be a thing.
Because after that it was pretty obvious.
Wow you manage to predict something as arbitrary as the bounty.
Now have you manage to predict anything that actually matters, or are we supposed to bow down because of this? Like I don't see the point of posting this here.
Jeez… Lighten up would you? it was a joke. I wasn't seriously asking for people to bow to me. Robby was the one saying that it was impossible to predict, and I managed to do it. Not just by guessing wildly, but by using what was shown in the manga. I also said that Luffy was in the running for being an emperor, and I was right about that too. That seems like something that actually matters in the story.
I mean, you predicted just after Luffy defeated Katakuri and Robby pretty much meant about times when we didn't knew Katakuri Vs Luffy would be a thing.
Because after that it was pretty obvious.
Nothing in Robby's comment indicates that he was specifically talking about before Luffy defeated Katakuri. Even after Luffy beat Katakuri, most people were still saying Luffy would get a bounty under a billion, or no bounty increase. Look at the discussion that was going on before the reveal. My comment (3rd post from the bottom) is the first comment after the chapter came out. Scroll backwards and see for yourself.
Purely coincidence
I should create a thread on OroJackson, linking to this thread here. Eventually starting a meme war. How irresponsable that'd be, right?
But, like, bunny girls are cool or something.
This is the only thread I live for.
Depends on what you mean by "zany" and how far you stretch it. Tons of predicted stuff has been fully acurate in terms of the overall story or steps of an arc. Things like Buggy becoming a warlord, Lola being Big Mom's daughter, or the masked guy Duval being Sanji's bad wanted poster were all spot on. I think someone actually called Brook being part of the Rumba pirates before we got to the flashback. A lot of us assumed Sabo might get Ace's fruit even before he actually reappeared in Dresserossa.
As a whole we can't really predict Oda when it comes to brand new characters or action/powers, because that's the truly random stuff where even he can change his mind from week to week and the "anything can happen" mantra comes into play. (Even Oda himself apparently hadn't decided which specific Galley La members would be CP9 yet when he introduced the lot of them.) I don't think it would be possible for anyone to have guessed that Kaku would have a giraffe fruit for instance. Also, stuff that Oda intentionally hides like Garp's face (and thus his being Luffy's grandfather) is something we can't guess without baseless random guessing, because he specifically withheld information there. Or when he intentionally breaks pattern like Luffy's latest bounty. We mostly assumed Luffy would reach that level after Kaidou, not before… and I don't think anyone considered him becoming a fifth emporer at this point in the story because that's a big crazy thing.
But the bigger long term stuff Oda plays fair with his setups and we're usually pretty good about getting.
Do you have a source because that's really interesting info Ive never heard
Huh Imagine if world where Paulie and Kaku switched places.
Giraffe Paulie and Good guy Kaku. Lucci swapped with Lulu.
Freddie Mercury as a Villain that could turn into a leopard would have been awesome.
Chapter 437 Discussion after franky decides to join the Strawhats:
So who think Usopp is inside that duffelbag?
H x H Chimera Ant Arc / OP Manga Spoiler
Spoiler:
@Long:
Do you have a source because that's really interesting info Ive never heard
Huh Imagine if world where Paulie and Kaku switched places.
Giraffe Paulie and Good guy Kaku. Lucci swapped with Lulu.
Freddie Mercury as a Villain that could turn into a leopard would have been awesome.
Oda does major stuff at the last minute a lot. The end of Drum island was imagined quite far into the arc, after Oda noticed that Hiriluk's pink stuff placed on top of the drum mountains would look like a cherry blossom tree. I'm also pretty sure that Vivi was just a random BW officer when Oda first introduced her and that he decided on the whole princess plot halfway between reverse mountain and Whiskey Peak. That's why her design changes so much at that point, it was to make her look less evil.
Plausible: Shanks is actually two lesbian space rocks fused together into a single person.
Nah thats Nami .
Nami has shown no attraction towards men in the series so I headcanon her as lesbian though if she doesn't end up with luffy she'll probably not be paired with a man. I guess she could be ace though. At least Robin Called Jinbe Handsome once.
Kind of expected but odd that we dont get any badass lesbians despite guys like Ivankov/Bon Clay/Inazuma and now Morley. Only way Id be fine with another pervert is if it was a chick. Say she had a 1930's film noire kind classy style of flirting.
Chapter 437 Discussion after franky decides to join the Strawhats:
So who think Usopp is inside that duffelbag?
H x H Chimera Ant Arc / OP Manga Spoiler
Spoiler:
I'm looking through the lists of panel times for every arc, and I'm seeing a very consistent pattern emerge: The only characters who have more panel time than strawhats in any given arcs are one of three things. 1) Villains. 2) Plot relevant characters. 3) New crewmates.
Since Carrot isn't one of the first two, I'm left with only one conclusion…
She is a plot relevant character in WCI? I don't know how you defined plot relevant but she does fit the bill.
Just like Bege, Pudding in WCI arc.
Just like Law, Kinemon , Momonosuke in Punk Hazard arc, Dressrosa arc & so on.
Just like Smoker & Tashigi in Punk Hazard arc
Just like Mr.2, Mr.3, Buggy, Crocodile, Daz Bones in Impel Down arc.
Just like Camie, Papugg & Hachi in Shanbody arc.
Just like Shirahoshi in Fishman Island arc.
No offence but using panel time to justify that a character joining the crew is just plain dumb. This is even worse than the lookout argument. Some of the other users have pointed out the huge flaw in this argument.
Law should have joined the crew based on the amount of panel time he have gotten. But the story clearly indicate he is an ally.
Sure, having more panel time might mean the character is more important if you ignore everything else in context.
Shank is super important character but he has relatively low panel time. When he does show up, he get double spread panel.
Carrot does have a lot of panel time but most of her panels are in group shot consist of dozen of people. I think Oda managed to cram like over 50 characters in one of the double spread for WCI?
She is just a scribble dot in some of the panels. She is essentially a background character in some of the panels.
IF I want to support Carrot as next nakama, I will argue based on her personality. She is indeed very refreshing for a female character.
Not this nonsensical 'panel time' argument.
@Long:
Nami has shown no attraction towards men in the series so I headcanon her as lesbian though if she doesn't end up with luffy she'll probably not be paired with a man. I guess she could be ace though. At least Robin Called Jinbe Handsome once.
Kind of expected but odd that we dont get any badass lesbians despite guys like Ivankov/Bon Clay/Inazuma and now Morley. Only way Id be fine with another pervert is if it was a chick. Say she had a 1930's film noire kind classy style of flirting.
Nami is a lesbian until further notice.
No offence but using panel time to justify that a character joining the crew is just plain dumb.
I don't think anybody has done that. It's getting a little tiring to discuss over assumptions and overreaching conclusions. What Avocado said is that the panel time was big enough for Carrot to not be labelled a "mere hype tool for the Mink tribe".
Carrot does have a lot of panel time but most of her panels are in group shot consist of dozen of people.
Do you have evidence? Because based on the facts:
1. She was just with Chopper for a long time.
2. She was portrayed at the crow's nest many times.
I don't think you have a point here. Heck, based on point 2, we may have had more panels of her alone than the rest of the Sunny crew xD
I think Oda managed to cram like over 50 characters in one of the double spread for WCI?
She is just a scribble dot in some of the panels. She is essentially a background character in some of the panels.
Not that it matters, because the source Avocado cites counts as well the panel time of the other characters under similar circumstances.
IF I want to support Carrot as next nakama, I will argue based on her personality. She is indeed very refreshing for a female character.
Not this nonsensical 'panel time' argument.
Agreed with this! Which is what I find weird because come on, the discussion hasn't developed in that direction. This is more of a discussion on her presence and/or relevance in the arc.
@Long:
Do you have a source because that's really interesting info Ive never heard
That can't be correct, the CP9 concept show Lucci, Kaku, Kalifa and Blueno already with their names and that was even before their final design was decided, so clearly before they/the Galley-La were introduced in the manga.
I don't think anybody has done that. It's getting a little tiring to discuss over assumptions and overreaching conclusions. What Avocado said is that the panel time was big enough for Carrot to not be labelled a "mere hype tool for the Mink tribe".
Avocadointherain is. In that post, he is saying that Carrot is the next nakama because she is not a villain or a plot relevant character based on her panel time.
Mentioning panel time in a next nakama thread to prove that Carrot is not a merely a supporting character is an ARGUMENT to support her as NN.
Supporting characters can get a lot of panel time. It's not strange. Carrot is a supporting character who is also a hype tool for the mink tribe. Her big sulong moment was a feat for the mink tribe. The mink tribe got mentioned a lot when she was in her sulong form.
Do you have evidence? Because based on the facts:
1. She was just with Chopper for a long time.
2. She was portrayed at the crow's nest many times.I don't think you have a point here. Heck, based on point 2, we may have had more panels of her alone than the rest of the Sunny crew xD
I'm not going to check every single one of Carrot's panel time to see whether she is at the front or the background. Seriously.
I also don't understand what are you getting at??
Oda treat her like Chopper's little sister so he put them in a team.
I'm pretty sure Pedro & Chopper was also on the crow nest at some point. Nami & Brook also act as a lookout at some point.
I have seen the "Carrot lookout collage" so many times that I definitely know she has been on the crow nest many times.
Not that it matters, because the source Avocado cites counts as well the panel time of the other characters under similar circumstances.
Which goes to show panel time statistic cannot be taken at face value and need to consider the story…
Agreed with this! Which is what I find weird because come on, the discussion hasn't developed in that direction. This is more of a discussion on her presence and/or relevance in the arc.
To be honest, it is also not a strong argument as it is based on personal wish for a female character that is part of the boys. Most of the anti-carrot for NN acknowledge she is a refreshing female character & is a likeable character. But it's not enough to push her as the next main character.
@Long:
Do you have a source because that's really interesting info Ive never heard
http://www.apforums.net/showthread.php?t=43241&page=179&p=3908094&viewfull=1#post3908094
You'd have to ask Greg where Oda specifically revealed that though. An recent interview somewhere I assume.
@.access:
That can't be correct, the CP9 concept show Lucci, Kaku, Kalifa and Blueno already with their names and that was even before their final design was decided, so clearly before they/the Galley-La were introduced in the manga.
Like most things in the databooks, that set of sketches were pretty clearly compiled together after the fact,(and cleaned up) not initially all drawn at once on the same page. So that the best, most interesting. most pertinent, pictures can be used and so they can be laid out around text. Like the height comparison especially has two different floor lines. They picked the early sketches of the characters that finally made it rather than say, wing tattoo guy who was prominent in the anime opening because the staff had no idea who was going to be important at the time.
Similarly, they've showcased the early strawhat images, and there is SUPER CLEARLY a spot in the drawing where a character has been erased, presumably Jinbe.
Robby was the one saying that it was impossible to predict, and I managed to do it.
Random guessing doesn't mean you managed to predict it lol.
Not just by guessing wildly, but by using what was shown in the manga.
Strange how any real reasoning is missing from your post.
But sure, please do post the logic behind it.
I also said that Luffy was in the running for being an emperor, and I was right about that too. That seems like something that actually matters in the story.
Luffy, one of the most infamous pirate in the series, invaded and managed to get away from one of the four yonkous after declaring war against her after the Dressrosa incident …......
That must have taken some serious analytical skills. You just cracked the latest Stanley Kubrian puzzle with this theory. And it came true! Guys, this dude must be working with Oda, or is in fact Oda because nobody could have possibly predicted that Luffy would have to reach some sort of a status after Big Mom and before Kaidou.
Next thing this dude will be claiming is that One Piece is not actually a treasure but something that will reveal the true history.
And this, right here, is exactly why you should stay away from OroJackson. Because random guess that literally spells out the obvious surface level stuff is somehow considered successfully "predicting" the story. I guess these people haven't heard of the saying, "when you throw bunch of random shit at the wall, something is bound to stick. Doesn't mean you actually predicted stuff".
@Long:
Nami has shown no attraction towards men in the series so I headcanon her as lesbian though if she doesn't end up with luffy she'll probably not be paired with a man. I guess she could be ace though. At least Robin Called Jinbe Handsome once.
Nami is a lesbian until further notice.
Nami is money-sexual before anything else.
Does villain mean the main villain?
And what does plot relevant mean? It seems extremely vague.
She is a plot relevant character in WCI? I don't know how you defined plot relevant but she does fit the bill.
Just like Bege, Pudding in WCI arc.
Just like Law, Kinemon , Momonosuke in Punk Hazard arc, Dressrosa arc & so on.
Just like Smoker & Tashigi in Punk Hazard arc
Just like Mr.2, Mr.3, Buggy, Crocodile, Daz Bones in Impel Down arc.
Just like Camie, Papugg & Hachi in Shanbody arc.
Just like Shirahoshi in Fishman Island arc.
By "plot relevant" I mean that they are vessels used to move the story foreward and if they were removed, the story would be much different. Lets take Sabaody for example. Camie gets kidnapped and the strawhats have to go rescue her. Plot relevant. If she wasn't there Luffy wouldn't have been in place to punch a tenryubito and everything after that wouldn't have happened. Hachi was there to give the reader backstory and context for the island they were on, and him getting shot was the actual trigger for Luffy punching the tenryubito. Without him, we don't understand a lot of what is going on in the arc. Papugg is not a plot relevant character. All he does is tell jokes, and say a little exposition that Camie or Hachi could have easily told instead. If an editor cut him, the story would have remained pretty much identical.
If an editor had said "don't bring the bunny with Luffy to WCI", there's not too much that would have changed from how it turned out with Carrot joining them. Chocolat town -> seducing woods -> Enraged army -> Meeting -> wedding -> Escape. A few details would change, and some characters would have had a bit more trouble at times, but the plot of WCI would remain unaffected. This is why we bring up panel time, because its unusual for Oda to draw characters that don't shape the plot as much as he has for Carrot. That he's putting this much effort into Carrot shows that he has plans for her in the future.
Also, "panel time" here is just used as a quantitative way to show her involvement in the story instead of having to list everything she's done in the arc.
Purely coincidence
Effort? Does that apply to her personality and design? Or are we back to ignoring the most obvious part that will show Odas effort?
Random guessing doesn't mean you managed to predict it lol.
Strange how any real reasoning is missing from your post.
But sure, please do post the logic behind it.
Luffy, one of the most infamous pirate in the series, invaded and managed to get away from one of the four yonkous after declaring war against her after the Dressrosa incident …......
That must have taken some serious analytical skills. You just cracked the latest Stanley Kubrian puzzle with this theory. And it came true! Guys, this dude must be working with Oda, or is in fact Oda because nobody could have possibly predicted that Luffy would have to reach some sort of a status after Big Mom and before Kaidou.
Next thing this dude will be claiming is that One Piece is not actually a treasure but something that will reveal the true history.
And this, right here, is exactly why you should stay away from OroJackson. Because random guess that literally spells out the obvious surface level stuff is somehow considered successfully "predicting" the story. I guess these people haven't heard of the saying, "when you throw bunch of random shit at the wall, something is bound to stick. Doesn't mean you actually predicted stuff".
Man your such an unfunny guy.
People like you shouldn’t be in forum, the planet would be more peaceful
Nami is money-sexual before anything else.
By "plot relevant" I mean that they are vessels used to move the story foreward and if they were removed, the story would be much different. Lets take Sabaody for example. Camie gets kidnapped and the strawhats have to go rescue her. Plot relevant. If she wasn't there Luffy wouldn't have been in place to punch a tenryubito and everything after that wouldn't have happened. Hachi was there to give the reader backstory and context for the island they were on, and him getting shot was the actual trigger for Luffy punching the tenryubito. Without him, we don't understand a lot of what is going on in the arc. Papugg is not a plot relevant character. All he does is tell jokes, and say a little exposition that Camie or Hachi could have easily told instead. If an editor cut him, the story would have remained pretty much identical.
If an editor had said "don't bring the bunny with Luffy to WCI", there's not too much that would have changed from how it turned out with Carrot joining them. Chocolat town -> seducing woods -> Enraged army -> Meeting -> wedding -> Escape. A few details would change, and some characters would have had a bit more trouble at times, but the plot of WCI would remain unaffected. This is why we bring up panel time, because its unusual for Oda to draw characters that don't shape the plot as much as he has for Carrot. That he's putting this much effort into Carrot shows that he has plans for her in the future.
Also, "panel time" here is just used as a quantitative way to show her involvement in the story instead of having to list everything she's done in the arc.
Couldn't Caimie do everything Hachi did? Luffy coud punch a Celestial for treating her like trash and she is from fishman island and aware of the discrimination.
And does Bentham count in your plot or villain thing because he does outpace Robin in Alabasta?
Lesbian Nami is… awesome. I am adopting that view. Could she have been a little infatuated by Tashigi at the end of Punk Hazard?
Also, the first few chapter that the Toy Soldier/Kyros appears he is totally unrecognizable as his later character. I guess that there is a lot of planning but also a lot of experimenting with a manga series with weekly chapters.
And yet I still think he had a woman planned who just couldn't be passed off as Robin, hence why there was seemingly only Nami in the original crew sketch.
Like the Avatar? / Like the Miis?
Dragalia Lost ID: 97617932505
Couldn't Caimie do everything Hachi did? Luffy coud punch a Celestial for treating her like trash and she is from fishman island and aware of the discrimination.
Not really. You would have to do some major rewriting to remove either character and keep the plot generally the same. Caimie's whole thing is that she wants to go to the amusement park because she was never able to go on land before. If you make her worldly enough to be able to drop exposition and worldbuilding like Hachi does, then you lose her whole reason for wanting to go to Sabaody in the first place. Also, the tenryubitto punch would make less sense and be less impactful if it was just because he wanted to buy her. Everyone in that crowd wanted to buy Caimie. Luffy wouldn't have singled out Charlos amongst the whole crowd. As I said, major rewrites would be necessary if you removed one of them.
And does Bentham count in your plot or villain thing because he does outpace Robin in Alabasta?
Well, I put villains in a separate category from "plot relevant characters" because they take part in fights, and those really rack up the panel time. Since mr 2 fought Sanji, I would definitely put him in that category. He only spends 46 panels (I went and counted) as a non-plot relevant character. That's both counting his transponder snail, and accepting that the whole escape from Alabasta was not plot-relevant, which I'm not sure I do.
Keep in mind, these are just broad categories I chose in order to explain why I feel that Carrot's place in the story is an anomaly. Oda isn't writing with this in mind.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Lesbian Nami is… awesome. I am adopting that view. Could she have been a little infatuated by Tashigi at the end of Punk Hazard?
I think that was more Nami being reminded of her mother. Now THIS on the other hand…
Also, the first few chapter that the Toy Soldier/Kyros appears he is totally unrecognizable as his later character. I guess that there is a lot of planning but also a lot of experimenting with a manga series with weekly chapters.
It was revealed at some point that toys acted differently in order to keep up the facade. They had to act like, well, toys.
Purely coincidence
Not really. You would have to do some major rewriting to remove either character and keep the plot generally the same. Caimie's whole thing is that she wants to go to the amusement park because she was never able to go on land before. If you make her worldly enough to be able to drop exposition and worldbuilding like Hachi does, then you lose her whole reason for wanting to go to Sabaody in the first place.
They are common knowledge thing and she lives right below and among suffering from those Celestials. Her being knowledgeable about them wouldn't be weird.
The reason she doesn't go is because she would be kidnap not because she's an idiot.
Also, the tenryubitto punch would make less sense and be less impactful if it was just because he wanted to buy her. Everyone in that crowd wanted to buy Caimie. Luffy wouldn't have singled out Charlos amongst the whole crowd. As I said, major rewrites would be necessary if you removed one of them.
All you need is have Charloss buy her and possibly shoot her for resisting to much.
If that's a major rewrite Carrot not being there to give more drama to Pedro's death or not shwing the power of the wereminks against a whole fleet should also be considered major rewrites.
Can you modify one or two minks story to fill plot Carrot served? Yes. But you can also modify Caimie to fill the plot Hachi served.
By "plot relevant" I mean that they are vessels used to move the story foreward and if they were removed, the story would be much different. Lets take Sabaody for example. Camie gets kidnapped and the strawhats have to go rescue her. Plot relevant. If she wasn't there Luffy wouldn't have been in place to punch a tenryubito and everything after that wouldn't have happened. Hachi was there to give the reader backstory and context for the island they were on, and him getting shot was the actual trigger for Luffy punching the tenryubito. Without him, we don't understand a lot of what is going on in the arc. Papugg is not a plot relevant character. All he does is tell jokes, and say a little exposition that Camie or Hachi could have easily told instead. If an editor cut him, the story would have remained pretty much identical.
If an editor had said "don't bring the bunny with Luffy to WCI", there's not too much that would have changed from how it turned out with Carrot joining them. Chocolat town -> seducing woods -> Enraged army -> Meeting -> wedding -> Escape. A few details would change, and some characters would have had a bit more trouble at times, but the plot of WCI would remain unaffected.
I thought about it…
Being 'plot relevant" and 'next nakama' actually does have a connection.
All of the strawhat were highly 'plot relevant' in their intro arc. Their plot thread is highly intertwined with the arc. (Robin, Nami & Sanji also got their own backstory arc)
By saying that Carrot is not 'plot relevant', I feel like you are arguing she is not that important overall because she doesn't affect the plot of WCI. (I do agree on that regard)
You can easily replace her with Pekom. Pekom could have been the one witnessing Pedro's death & hear about the 'dawn of the world'. He could have been the one to transform into his sulong form. etc
So, Carrot isn't a necessary character at all which doesn't help her case for next nakama.
This is why we bring up panel time, because its unusual for Oda to draw characters that don't shape the plot as much as he has for Carrot. That he's putting this much effort into Carrot shows that he has plans for her in the future.
Also, "panel time" here is just used as a quantitative way to show her involvement in the story instead of having to list everything she's done in the arc.
This is Oda we are talking about. He draws dozen of characters every arc. In the previous arc, Big mom had 85 childrens & he showed all of them!
He even writes cover story for so many tertiary characters.
We needed to know Gedatsu found & own an hotspring.
We needed to know Ace helped a milk girl in reuniting with her parents.
We needed to know the Southbird from Jaya arc has a family.
We needed to know Mr. 9 & Miss Monday have a child together.
etc
Oda is treating Carrot like a supporting character. There is no hidden meaning to it. Maybe he just wanted another mink aside from Pekom & Pedro to come along to WCI. And he decided it would be Carrot.
Oda can & does develop his supporting characters all the time. He will give some closure to Carrot's dream of seeing the world no doubt.
You can almost always fuse "plot-relevant characters" into one, like alternatively fusing Camie and Hacchi back in Sabaody, but that doesn't mean that those two characters didn't enter the story to play those roles in the way they were written.
I'm not one to post, but I was so taken aback by what I just read I needed to clarify. Did avocado just say Carrot will join do to how irrelevant she is?
Nami has only been shown attracted to Califfa after all..
