Going back to Whiskey Peak, Zoro took out Miss Monday, hell he even attacked a child and his mother when they had guns drawn on him
Oh wait, he's evil…wait...
Going back to Whiskey Peak, Zoro took out Miss Monday, hell he even attacked a child and his mother when they had guns drawn on him
Oh wait, he's evil…wait...
Zoro not knowing CoA at this point of the story would be retarded, especially when you consider that he was able to use it once all the way back during the Alabasta Arc when he fought Mr. 1.
It's already retarded.
Law: We need only people who can hurt Logia users to face Ceaser. Luffy: That me, Zoro and Sanji. Zoro: Leave her to me, she's a logia user. APforums: Zoro's not fighting back, he doesn't know CoA.
Me: Facepalm
Seems the folks of AP have many different thoughts as to why Zoro was "holding back".
Zoro held back cus he knew something was "off" about Monet's DF, that it was a synthetic logia. Hence curiosity held him back.
could it be, Zoro has Conquerors Haki. . . and he doesn't want anyone to find out?.
From what I can tell, Zoro was on the defensive because the others where still there and wanted to make sure they got out safely. It's not a case of sexism at all, he's making sure that they are gone so he can go as wild as he wants to without causing problems. The way he is, he feels obligated to protect the others, therefore being distracted from fighting full force, so he goes on the defensive. Once this fight gets back on, he'll attack more.
@Nex:
Zoro wasn't just biding time, or refusing to hit a woman, he was preparing to attempt to replicate Kinemon's technique.
Perhaps Zoro's Haki slashes will seriously mess shit up, like cut the building in half and allow Shinokuni to pour in, hence why he wouldn't want to use them.
All of which are more feasible (at least, to me) than "he's hesistant to hit a woman".
Wonder which one it will be…...?
Zoro not knowing CoA at this point of the story would be retarded, especially when you consider that he was able to use it once all the way back during the Alabasta Arc when he fought Mr. 1.
Pretty sure that was just his ability to "cut" through steel.
Similar to Kinemon cutting fire ,just different element.
It's already retarded.
Law: We need only people who can hurt Logia users to face Ceaser. Luffy: That me, Zoro and Sanji. Zoro: Leave her to me, she's a logia user. APforums: Zoro's not fighting back, he doesn't know CoA.
Me: Facepalm
Lol My thoughts exactly.
Considering how you were excited that Zoro was gonna get a fight, you're just mad Zoro was a floormat in this chapter for the girls to shine.
oh so true
but still he's yet to show what he's really learnt
and now we had this chapter where he's not really doing anything bar defense with the enemy thinking its because he can't… seriously i just want to see a full fight with the guy as much as i like 1 hit ko's
You know guys, all this mess over monet and robin in the past 2 chapters had just made me want to sketch something. I'll post it later in the art subforum when I'm done. :)
Putting aside the COA for just one second
I just realized Zoro only used 2 swords for the fight, is there a big difference of power with 2 versus all 3?
In my opinion (and again my thoughts please don't take this personal)
I think this is his way of toying with Monet.
I mean Mihawk only used a small sword to defeat Zoro at the beginning of One Piece.
He only used the big sword to slash him out of respect.
Could this be Zoro's way of not going all out?
Anyway just my thoughts, overall great chapter.
@The:
Edit: the only way out I can see for her is if she somehow changed the formula of he candy to make its effects benign…but that would go against Choppers findings and the kids behavior.
You read my mind here. The way Monet acts makes her utterly evil, unless she somehow managed to neutralize the formula leaving two kinds of candies in PH the ones which will kill the kids eventually and those that neutralize the first ones. Nonetheless as you said before so far monet is pretty evil. And until this chapter I`ll leave her as that. A playful, smart and sarcastic villain
Putting aside the COA for just one second
I just realized Zoro only used 2 swords for the fight, is there a big difference of power with 2 versus all 3?
In my opinion (and again my thoughts please don't take this personal)
I think this is his way of toying with Monet.
I mean Mihawk only used a small sword to defeat Zoro at the beginning of One Piece.
He only used the big sword to slash him out of respect.
Could this be Zoro's way of not going all out?Anyway just my thoughts, overall great chapter.
As far as I can remember, Zoro has fought using 1, 2, and 3 swords; but I don't think it can be used to measure how "serious" he is.
I'd pay more attention to his headband, everytime he's going all out, he wears it
Putting aside the COA for just one second
I just realized Zoro only used 2 swords for the fight, is there a big difference of power with 2 versus all 3?
In my opinion (and again my thoughts please don't take this personal)
I think this is his way of toying with Monet.
I mean Mihawk only used a small sword to defeat Zoro at the beginning of One Piece.
He only used the big sword to slash him out of respect.
Could this be Zoro's way of not going all out?Anyway just my thoughts, overall great chapter.
I'll Post my old comment on this matter.
This is my opinion on Zoro's fighting with limited amount of swords.
We have seen zoro finish off his opponents with 1 sword.. it would not decrease his Power… in some cases it makes him stronger.
But having less swords would decrease his techniques and Battle Choices, moves etc..
So he will have less options when fighting. he will not be able to do moves which require 3 swords.
zoro is overall weaker and less of a fighter without all of his swords, what am trying to say is that zoro can launch attacks with 1 sword or 2 as long as his using a technique which requires the use of that many amount of swords.
Example Zoro's lion song is done with 1 sword, i wouldn't call it weaker than his other 2 or 3 sword techniques.... Unless its a Special attack like Asura.
Some techniques require 1 sword and they are just as powerful as his other 3 swords techniques.
Yes zoro's is overall weaker with less swords due to less options while in combat, but it does not decrease his damage out put with a single sword technique, Just his options are limited.
Ever heard this before.
"do not fear the man who knows 1000 kicks but fear the man who knows one kick and has done it 1000 times"
Thought by Martial Artists.
I'm pretty sure Zoro can 1-hit KO Monet. She lacks the speed and defense to do anything against Zoro's slashes. C'mon she's fighting him with ICE PICKS, it would be an insult against Mihawk if Zoro couldn't make deep-fry harpy out of Monet.
I'm just as eager as the next guy to see Zoro go all out using everything he learned over the timeskip but the opponent has to be worthy. This is Tashigi's fight, not Zoro's
You are a lost cause.
Says the person who made horrendous and pointless arguments NOT to mention ignored anything about the chapter. Speaking of which this chapter seemed like it couldn't decide if it wanted more dialogue or action. Still annoying seeing people pissing and moaning over Zoro not beheading Monet immediately when it's obvious we'll get a good answer. Monet is obviously not a caring mother figure she's an evil bitch and people need to realize there is a better chance of Blackbeard joining the crew than her (ok not really but you get my point).
The number of swords Zoro is using doesn't change his strength. He defeated Dahz Boness and Ryuma both with one sword, and he defeated Big Pan by creating a Tatsumaki with just his arms. Having 3 swords just means the range of techniques he has at his disposal is numerous.
It didn't go like that. Tashigi KNOWS Haki, but her level of mastery of it was not enough to protect herself from Law's powers.
Haki doesnt negate powers, it negates effects and solidifies logias. Smoker damn well knows haki, yet got his heart removed. He can't just negate laws powers. But i agree with you about Tashigi.
so she is a logia but can transform into a harpy. souds like a zoan logia hybrid too me. but love this chapter and the girls showed they not no push overs. And I think zoro doesn't want to hurt monet while chopper and the girls were still there. And we get a team up batttle with tashigi and zoro nice.
Monet should really consider changing her shirt.
She's no longer the "Happy Harpy".
Oda doesn't portray anyone as stupid in this manga.
What about Luffy, Zoro, Buggy, Usopp and Sanji? Granted it's gag type of stuff but they are portrayed as stupid and/or irresponsible. But I see what you were saying. As for Tashigi passing Zoro I think she will maybe not w/i the series (maybe if the series were to be extended 5-10yrs after Luffy finds OP) but I think she is in a reversal role Zoro was in with Kuina. Zoro trained continuously and failed to beat Kuina, but he promised to keep trying (and probably would have EVENTUALLY caught up to her or beat her). Tashigi seems like she will do the same, as she is no match for Zoro but in the end will be able to confront him similar to Coby and Luffy. I could be wrong but that's how I see Oda setting up Tashigi's place.
I don't understand why people think if Zoro gets serious he going to take care of Monet easy .
Monet is one of the smarter fighters we have seen , instead of fighting Zoro she goes after the weaker characters .
Some might say if Zoro goes all out he can stop her from attacking them but that is not for certain.
She also know what Haki but more important she did not underestimated Luffy and Zoro which was the down fall of others .
@RPG:
so she is a logia but can transform into a harpy. souds like a zoan logia hybrid too me. but love this chapter and the girls showed they not no push overs. And I think zoro doesn't want to hurt monet while chopper and the girls were still there. And we get a team up batttle with tashigi and zoro nice.
Her wings are made of snow. Its part of her ability. The bird feet however, we've yet to get an explanation for that. Everyone thinks it was Law's doing but I highly doubt it. If im not mistaken, Brownbeard and his comrade's were made into centaurs by Cesar, not Law.
My theory is Monet got her legs chopped off by a swordsman and Cesar fixed her. The "harpy" mystery is no longer a mystery.
I think she's underestimating Zoro right now because she is getting pretty comfy enough to taunt him. He hasn't even begun to fight yet.
@Rotten:
Her wings are made of snow. Its part of her ability. The bird feet however, we've yet to get an explanation for that. Everyone thinks it was Law's doing but I highly doubt it. If im not mistaken, Brownbeard and his comrade's were made into centaurs by Cesar, not Law.
Law is responsible for the centaurs, Caesar's original solution was to give them balloons to ride on.
Loved this chapter. The details and bit of backstory with the children were great, as were all of the intricacies of the fight with Monet. Some good team work with Nami, Robin, and Zoro helping each other out.
Some real effective comedy too. Nami using Chopper as a shield, Sanji leading the Marines to safety, mocking Zoro, and immediately taken aback by Monet (including all of the Marines) and causing Monet to blush in embarrassment. That whole last bit was classic.
Very interesting change for Zoro here. His talking about attacking unarmed targets and also not using any offensive attacks on her seems to indicate some of Sanji's chivalrous code has rubbed off on him somewhat, even though he'd never admit it. Also, working alongside Tashigi–a semi-rival and a Marine?? Outside of helping the crew, he's always been a 1-on-1 sort of guy to boot. Their interaction will likely be a high-point in the next chapter.
@Rotten:
Her wings are made of snow. Its part of her ability.
Do we really know this? It can be assumed, but she can turn her entire body into snow, including the new bird feet appendages, so the wings could still be a Law enhancement.
Law obviously made her an harpy. He made the rest of the centaur group, didn't he? It was explained earlier in the arc.
hahahaha zoro can't use haki ohh the irony
Law is responsible for the centaurs, Caesar's original solution was to give them balloons to ride on.
I'm too lazy to go find the chapter to check. But if you're right, I stand corrected.
Seems the folks of AP have many different thoughts as to why Zoro was "holding back".
All of which are more feasible (at least, to me) than "he's hesistant to hit a woman".
Wonder which one it will be…...?
Oh, thx for putting these all in one place! I was getting bummed out that "Zoro can't use CoA," or "Zoro wont hit a woman cause I can't tell him apart from Sanji" would be the rest of the thread. I like Nex's quote the best.
Okay, let's all think back to the Kuro Arc everyone…When Zoro was fighting the MeowBan Bros, Usopp was trying to help and shoot Buchie. However, Zoro jumped in the way of the shot.
Think a little bit. Why did he do that? Because he was protecting the weaker one's that stood no chance against the foe ahead. He has a code where if you are fighting, only the fighters are the targets, no one else. He makes sure everyone else is safely out of the way so that he and his opponent focus on each other. Monet in this sense has been targeting everyone but Zoro, who has been defending them this whole time. There is no sexism and Zoro's character hasn't changed.
Why is this Zoro topic even being discussed?
It was made perfectly clear when Sanji arrived.
^ THANK YOU!!!
God, this convo has been annoying…
hahahaha zoro can't use haki ohh the irony
Incorrect.
Think a little bit. Why did he do that? Because he was protecting the weaker one's that stood no chance against the foe ahead. He has a code where if you are fighting, only the fighters are the targets, no one else. He makes sure everyone else is safely out of the way so that he and his opponent focus on each other. Monet in this sense has been targeting everyone but Zoro, who has been defending them this whole time. There is no sexism and Zoro's character hasn't changed.
Bingo, Shuhan. I stand by the fact that Zoro was merely going easy to let Nami, Robin, and Chopper escape from Monet's attacks….had he went all-out from the start, he could've hurt one of them by accident. Chopper can't even move, so the urgency to move his allies is clear.
However, that doesn't mean there wasn't another agenda on Zoro's mind too…..ex. figuring on how to use Kinemon's technique.
EDIT: That panel pretty much confirms it.
I thought Zoro can use CoA, as everyone else should do. I mean, there is an "easy" way to harm logias, why not?
But then I thought: there are techniques that let you cut fire, and those stuff doesn't seem to be haki-related (or, if it does, let's just suppose it's not haki related). Now, Mihawk is "the best swordsman in the world", this means he can cut almost everything. What if Mihawk taught Zoro "the hard way", I mean how to slice through every element instead of using the haki armor?
This would explain why Zoro is taking time, he's trying to understand Monet's nature so he will be able to cut through her.
In my opinion that would be really cool, and it would also lead to a Zoro character improvement instead of "Lol I have CoA I can cut everything". What do you think about it?
^ THANK YOU!!!
God, this convo has been annoying…
Well it's Zoro, it's not going to be something too complex!
It's exactly as you and several others said.
Bingo, Shuhan. I stand by the fact that Zoro was merely going easy to let Nami, Robin, and Chopper escape from Monet's attacks….had he went all-out from the start, he could've hurt one of them by accident. Chopper can't even move, so the urgency to move his allies is clear.
However, that doesn't mean there wasn't another agenda on Zoro's mind too…..ex. figuring on how to use Kinemon's technique.
EDIT: That panel pretty much confirms it.
very true Meta, very true. He's been fangasming about Kinnemon and his ability to cut fire, obviously he wants to try something to mimic that.
I thought Zoro can use CoA, as everyone else should do. I mean, there is an "easy" way to harm logias, why not?
But then I thought: there are techniques that let you cut fire, and those stuff doesn't seem to be haki-related (or, if it does, let's just suppose it's not haki related). Now, Mihawk is "the best swordsman in the world", this means he can cut almost everything. What if Mihawk taught Zoro "the hard way", I mean how to slice through every element instead of using the haki armor?
This would explain why Zoro is taking time, he's trying to understand Monet's nature so he will be able to cut through her.
In my opinion that would be really cool, and it would also lead to a Zoro character improvement instead of "Lol I have CoA I can cut everything". What do you think about it?
Of course Zoro can cut snow without CoA. That doesn't mean Monet can't just reform her body like all logias. Same with Kinemon. He could cut Ace but Ace would just reform. CoA allows you to touch (and harm) logia users' "substansial bodies".
very true Meta, very true. He's been fangasming about Kinnemon and his ability to cut fire, obviously he wants to try something to mimic that.
Right. Come to think of it, using a fire technique would be the logical way to combat a snow-based fighter.
Hell, I even see Zoro using it, which would inspire Tashigi to train harder to keep up to him.
I wouldn't get my hopes up concerning Kinemons technique. Everything is possible, but I really doubt that he managed to mimic element cutting because he saw it 2 times. Kinemon got a moniker due to that skill, means it must be special (if not exclusive to him).
I think Zoro's interest is simply part of the buildup for Wano, as in Zoro being the one who pushes the crew to travel there. It would be the first time that he speaks up concerning the route they take, but it would make sense considering that becoming the strongest swordsman means everything to him. Even more than being a part of the Straw Hats (and that says something).
I think Zoro's interest is simply part of the buildup for Wano, as in Zoro being the one who pushes the crew to travel there. It would be the first time that he speaks up concerning the route they take, but it would make sense considering that becoming the strongest swordsman means everything to him. Even more than being a part of the Straw Hats (and that says something).
Hm…...good point. I like the idea of Zoro taking initiative and deciding where he wants to go for once.
Zoro already has some type of fire technique like the one he used against ryumma. I can't imagine that he didn't improve on that in the 2 years of training. The only thing Kinemon showed that he shouldn't already have is the ability to cut fire itself. Zoro never would put his dream ahead of Luffy's btw. He's showed that time and time again. He wants to help luffy and to do that he needs to be the strongest swordsman. By accomplishing his dream he'll help Luffy accomplish his but when he kneel'd before Kuma and put his life and his dream on the line so that Luffy and the others could go on i think that proved without a doubt where his mind is at. SH Crew>his swordmanship
also LOL at chopper getting so scared his antlers came off
Hm…...good point. I like the idea of Zoro taking initiative and deciding where he wants to go for once.
Yup. And we can be sure that Zoro won't leave this place empty-handed (be it a new sword or a new technique). At least I would prefer it over him becoming the Kakashi of One Piece.
My guess is Oda was intentionally making us second guess Zoro's proficiency in the Color of Arms. Though we know from Luffy's mouth he can combat Logias, not to mention his want of battling Caribou who he knew was a Logia as well as his immediate jump on Monet when he realized she was a Logia last chapter. So we know he can use it.
Despite Sanji being the one to use CoO about 3 or 4 times now since the time skip, I still have a theory that Zoro will excel in CoO while Sanji will lean towards the CoA side. If only to mirror the 3 Boa Sisters as well as a few other little hints. I mean Zoro didn't even pull out his 3rd sword on her so he probably doesn't see her as a major threat just yet. I'm wondering if like Queen Otohime he can sense something deep inside her and that is holding him back. I mean she already stabbed Robin and left Zoro to go after weaker targets so I can't imagine what Zoro must be thinking holding back.
The other theory and most likely one is that he wanted the children, the girls and Chopper to get out before he goes crazy with his techniques. Him having to dash around different parts of the snow covered room that she disappears into might be risky with meth head kids running around. With that said though we know from Thriller Bark Zoro does not like unnecessary damage being made from his techniques. At this point 2 years later we have to assume he has refined his attacks. So I don't necessarily think he held back because of that.
I also have to wonder if he was trying to bait her into doing something before striking. Oh well we will see soon enough. It's just interesting that Oda would have Monet call out Tashigi as "a swordsman with Haki." Almost implying that Zoro couldn't do it. There has got to be more to it than that and I can't wait to see what.
Oh and about Monet's body, I could see her losing her legs to poison like some of the other men, then given new legs by Law later. But since she is fashionable she fashioned wings and feathers out of snow to give her a more natural appearance. At the same time why wouldn't she just have snow legs then? I love discrediting my own ideas.
I wouldn't get my hopes up concerning Kinemons technique. Everything is possible, but I really doubt that he managed to mimic element cutting because he saw it 2 times. Kinemon got a moniker due to that skill, means it must be special (if not exclusive to him).
I think Zoro's interest is simply part of the buildup for Wano, as in Zoro being the one who pushes the crew to travel there. It would be the first time that he speaks up concerning the route they take, but it would make sense considering that becoming the strongest swordsman means everything to him. Even more than being a part of the Straw Hats (and that says something).
Don't see how you can say that he was willing to give up his life for the SH .
The SH mean everything to him even before his dream or should i say making Luffy dream come true .
Do you see now why I got tired of it back in that thread? I remember you weren't particularly fond of my reaction.
It's not just something that pops up occasionally.It's like someone constantly cutting open old wounds. It's like, yes, we get it, great. There's a smorgasbord of other things to enjoy. There's a thread for sexism. Sometimes I really wish the moderation in this place was more crushing. If you went on a sexism derailment in some other forums, you'd be banned, even if you paid for your account lol.
Yeah, and I do apologize for that.
At least in that thread, the discussion made sense. In this thread it has no place. I don't even know why it got back up. It's just dumb and it needs to go away.
Don't see how you can say that he was willing to give up his life for the SH .
The SH mean everything to him even before his dream or should i say making Luffy dream come true .
He said himself that if Luffy would ever be in the way of him becoming the greatest swordsman, he would leave the crew. That was way back in East Blue, but I could still see it happen. He also threatened to leave if Luffy stops behaving like a captain.
The thing is, it will never ever come to that. Luffy would NEVER say no to Zoro if he wants to go to Wano. He proved a few chapters ago that the crew means everything to him, even their own little agenda's (Nami & Chopper trying to rescue the children for example). So if Zoro should propose to go to Wano we can be sure that this will be the SH's next destination.
That's why I said that Zoro being interested in Kinemons ability doesn't necessarily mean that he will copy it within this arc, but it might be just buildup to the next.
Just… what's so difficult to understand about Monet... She's just saying the kids are Caeser's, and so it is her job to protect them from being stolen.
She's thinking of the kids as objects, just like an awesome evil character should.
Well that was an exciting chapter! Zoro and Tashigi should be fun too. But I thought the forms would be going crazy over that by now, since it's like the ONLY thing we ever talk about, "Zoro and Tashigi!"
That Monet snow woman gave me chills…
He said himself that if Luffy would ever be in the way of him becoming the greatest swordsman, he would leave the crew. That was way back in East Blue, but I could still see it happen. He also threatened to leave if Luffy stops behaving like a captain.
The thing is, it will never ever come to that. Luffy would NEVER say no to Zoro if he wants to go to Wano. He proved a few chapters ago that the crew means everything to him, even their own little agenda's (Nami & Chopper trying to rescue the children for example). So if Zoro should propose to go to Wano we can be sure that this will be the SH's next destination.
That's why I said that Zoro being interested in Kinemons ability doesn't necessarily mean that he will copy it within this arc, but it might be just buildup to the next.
Zoro was willing to die to keep Luffy alive. He constantly talks about how no matter stupid Luffy is he's the leader the crew has to respect that. The reason why it would never come to that is because if Zoro wanted to go to Wano country and Luffy said no, we're going somewhere else, Zoro would just follow luffy. It's just like when Nami, Chopper, and Usopp tried to hide the triple Log-Pose from luffy because they knew that where ever luffy decided to go they would end up going. TBH i don't remember that panel or the context in which Zoro said that way back in the East Blue but since they've entered the Grandline Zoro has done nothing but respect the chain of command, even reminding luffy the weight of his position that he holds over the rest of the crew.
@gotta<3OP:
Just… what's so difficult to understand about Monet... She's just saying the kids are Caeser's, and so it is her job to protect them from being stolen.
She's thinking of the kids as objects, just like an awesome evil character should.
Remember that if something bad happens with Caesar and his plans, Doflamingo "eliminates" her.
It's just like when Nami, Chopper, and Usopp tried to hide the triple Log-Pose from luffy because they knew that where ever luffy decided to go they would end up going.
Do you compare
to
If Luffy would say no and Zoro would deem Wano as a necessary checkpoint in his personal journey, he would leave the crew, simple as that. But this whole discussion is pointless, it will never come to that, as I said.
@nodensuke:
Why is this Zoro topic even being discussed?
It was made perfectly clear when Sanji arrived.
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mces337VME1rtpszvo1_250.png
This is what everyone should really talk about, in this chapter: Zoro can now give directions to someone.
I realize that, and I try not to take the internet all too seriously. But stopping the use of words like gay, retarded, and autistic as stand-ins for stupid or dumb is important to me, and if I can stop just one person from doing it, it's worth taking the time. Anyway, back to the thread.
This makes you a hero to me :wub: