Chapter 610: "The Fortune Teller Madame Shirley" Discussion

asm00200

@THE:

I don't think Big Mam is Lola's mom.
If she were, Lola would be more likely to say something along of those lines: My mom is a Yonkou, or My mom is one of the four strongest pirates

Yeah, but we don't know how long Lola's been in thriller bark. It could've been before Big Mam became a yonkou.
It could be also similar to luffy not knowing Shanks position as one of the yonkou.

Plus I'd rather not believe Moria had kept a Yonkou's daughter for decades and everything's fine for him.

Simple. MoriaH doesn't Know Lola's connection (if any) with Big Mam, and Big Mam doesn't know where Lola is or what is she doing.

NANLIT

@asm00200:

Yeah, but we don't know how long Lola's been in thriller bark. It could've been before Big Mam became a yonkou.
It could be also similar to luffy not knowing Shanks position as one of the yonkou.

Simple. MoriaH doesn't Know Lola's connection (if any) with Big Mam, and Big Mam doesn't know where Lola is or what is she doing.

Lola and her crew lost their shadows 3 years before Moriah's defeat.
http://ani-haven.net/hr-alpha/One_Piece/482/14

asm00200

@NANLIT:

Lola and her crew lost their shadows 3 years before Moriah's defeat.
http://ani-haven.net/hr-alpha/One_Piece/482/14

I see, thanks. Well she still could be unaware of Big Mam's position, but yeah.. I hope it is someone else, someone new to the story.

Robby

@S.C.:

See, the thing is with Lola, if her mom is one of the four strongest pirates in the world, why is she so weak? Plus, once again, look at the old allied Captain of Whitebeard when they show up. Same hair shape, missing teeth, bowler hats, swords & general ugliness.

You referring to this character? Or someone else?

Yeah, there's some resemblance, but not so much I'd call it a sure thing. Oda's stacked similar designs before. Even as crazy as he goes, he can only expend so much variety on background fodder.

@kenjai7373:

i mean oda made us think gold roger was luffy's grandfather

No he didn't. This was never hinted or implied.

Cobalt Water

Thanks for the nightmares.
Oh yeah… Lola's mother is not Big Mam.
/end of discussion.

asm00200

Unfortunately, The lips on the flag of Big Mam is a BIGGER resemblance.
[hide][/hide]

Johnny B. Decent

@RobbyBevard:

You referring to this character?

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100414201847/onepiece/images/thumb/b/b0/Lola_human.PNG/195px-Lola_human.PNG http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20101024180113/onepiece/images/thumb/c/ce/Elmy.png/300px-Elmy.png

Yeah, there's some resemblance. But Oda's stacked similar designs before. Even as crazy as he goes, he can only expend so much variety on background fodder.

Yeah, I meant her. Elmy is her name, I think. But, she's a more viable candidate for Lola's mother then Linlin, to me.

And she did say a mighty captain. Allied with Whitebeard isn't too bad at all.

LuffyLuffyNoMi

Elmy is Lola's mother? Hm… Aohige may get mad at me, but I always thought of "her" name to be "Hermie" (spoken as French name "Ermi") coming from the word "_herm_aphrodite"… while "she" is an okama... ;)

ponx

Big Mam is NOT Lola's mom!!! And I have evidence!!!

Lola's proposal keeps getting rejected!. I mean, if she were the daughter of a yonkou, she'll definitely get her proposal (even at the count of 100-ish). Who wouldn't want to be the son-in-law of a Yonkou?? [/sarcasm]

But seriously, I doubt she's actually Lola's mom.

… just for the record, I wouldn't want to be a Yonkou's son-in-law if it meant marrying Lola.....U know.. just saying

Calchexas

I really hope that Whitebeard's shadow hovers over the entire second half of OP. If the era's name is Whitebeard, then it sure as heck better show (assuming Ace meant the new era when he said that).

This chapter was a good start to that hope being realized.

Aohige_AP

@LuffyLuffyNoMi:

Hm, I'm interpreting that part "Chûjô class no Kaihei-tachi" a bit different since the doctor doesn't speak of "rank" but of "class", nor does he say "Chûjô-tachi" what I would have expected… So it's much more open to me since Garp was the only Vice Admiral that showed Haki punches while others had either Rokushiki skills or DF abilities.

What in the world are you talking about?
ALL soldiers at or above Vice Admiral class of strength (or rank) can use haki.
That obviously includes the VAs.

Are you telling me, you rather go with mangastream's interpretation rather than what's ACTUALLY SAID IN THE MANGA?
Why are you focusing on parts that's totally and utterly unimportant, and completely overlooking the "みんな", you know "ALL" part?
In fact, the doctor's line doesn't even say the VA level guys CAN use them. He says they all DO.

Reyairia

@ponx:

Who wouldn't want to be the son-in-law of a Yonkou?? [/sarcasm]

Who would??

Besides, family resemblance is a moot point since Luffy doesn't look anything like his dad.

chaosceptor

@ponx:

Big Mam is NOT Lola's mom!!! And I have evidence!!!

Lola's proposal keeps getting rejected!. I mean, if she were the daughter of a yonkou, she'll definitely get her proposal (even at the count of 100-ish). Who wouldn't want to be the son-in-law of a Yonkou?? [/sarcasm]

But seriously, I doubt she's actually Lola's mom.

… just for the record, I wouldn't want to be a Yonkou's son-in-law if it meant marrying Lola.....U know.. just saying

…Please just ignore my post...
BM could=Female WB in terms of allies and such...
In any case the theory continues to pop cuz it justs sounds so prevalent to the story and would make wonderful sense

LuffyLuffyNoMi

@Aohige_AP:

What in the world are you talking about?
ALL soldiers at or above Vice Admiral class of strength (or rank) can use haki.
That obviously includes the VAs.

Are you telling me, you rather go with mangastream's interpretation rather than what's ACTUALLY SAID IN THE MANGA?

No. I interpreted judging from what I saw in the chapters and the mangastream translation fit to my interpretation, and as it seemed, I simply failed to interpret it the right way…

@Aohige_AP:

Why are you focusing on parts that's totally and utterly unimportant, and completely overlooking the "みんな", you know "ALL" part?
In fact, the doctor's line doesn't even say the VA level guys CAN use them. He says they all DO.

Well, I guess I simply just did find this some odd way of saying something easy in a pretty complicated way and got hooked up on the usage of "class" instead of "rank" and …. well, nevermind...

THE SEA

@asm00200:

Yeah, but we don't know how long Lola's been in thriller bark. It could've been before Big Mam became a yonkou.

The shichibukai was established to balance with Yonkou and Hancock was invited to be a Shichibukai 11 years ago (13 years after Timeskip) so the Yonkou must have existed before that.
Luffy is a clueless idiot while Lola's crew seemed informed. They knew "the mermaid princess surpass even Pirate Empress Hancock in beauty", no way they wouldn't know their captain's mom is a Yonkou if she were.

Simple. MoriaH doesn't Know Lola's connection (if any) with Big Mam, and Big Mam doesn't know where Lola is or what is she doing.

If Big Mam suddenly lost contact with her daughter she would likely to investigate. The daughter of a Yonkou suddenly disappeared and nobody did anything?@chaosceptor:

…Please just ignore my post...
BM could=Female WB in terms of allies and such...
In any case the theory continues to pop cuz it justs sounds so prevalent to the story and would make wonderful sense

Usually witnessing the strength of Yonkou's level mean you shouldn't be amazed/shocked by the strength of someone at Luffy's level even if you are a weakling. Except for when he shows COC.

I doubt Lola's mother would be stronger than current Luffy.

bigboibryan

what if…. big mam.. was actually luffy's mom. > < going too far??!?

Refii

All of Whitebeard's crew called him pops.
Pops = dad, none of them (to our knowledge) were of actual blood relation to him.

Big Mom, being Lola's "mom" does not establish her as her daughter, but rather as one of her crew as far as I'm concerned.

A yonkou would not be named Big Mom because she is the famous mother of Lola, but rather because she, like Whitebeard, has a motherly relationship with her crew.
Lola is a Squadro/Ace/Jozu on Big Mom's crew, that is all.

As for her being weak, remember even Roger had a Buggy, and Shanks has Rockstar (who compared to Luffy bounty wise would be fodder).

kouch_lee

Sorry, but doesn't Lola have her mother's Vivre card? Doesn't that kinda eliminate the possibility of her mother not knowing where Lola is?

I think it's more of a "I don't care what my daughter is doing right now, she is a pirate and must take care of herself". But not knowing her location is not a possibility. Regardless of who her mother might be. I'm not against the possibility of Big Mam being her mother. As I said, her mother may be totally against saving her daughter's ass, since that would be a disgrace to their family honor, or something along these lines.

HikaruYami

@kouch_lee:

Sorry, but doesn't Lola have her mother's Vivre card? Doesn't that kinda eliminate the possibility of her mother not knowing where Lola is?

I think it's more of a "I don't care what my daughter is doing right now, she is a pirate and must take care of herself". But not knowing her location is not a possibility. Regardless of who her mother might be. I'm not against the possibility of Big Mam being her mother. As I said, her mother may be totally against saving her daughter's ass, since that would be a disgrace to their family honor, or something along these lines.

Lola having her mother's card doesn't mean her mother has her card. If she genuinely has the "I won't save my daughter" mindset, then there's no reason for her to have had a card made for her daughter.

After all, just because Luffy had Ace's card doesn't mean Ace had any reason to know where Luffy was (besides all the newspapers he makes it into =.=")

THE SEA

@kouch_lee:

Sorry, but doesn't Lola have her mother's Vivre card? Doesn't that kinda eliminate the possibility of her mother not knowing where Lola is?

I think it's more of a "I don't care what my daughter is doing right now, she is a pirate and must take care of herself". But not knowing her location is not a possibility. Regardless of who her mother might be. I'm not against the possibility of Big Mam being her mother. As I said, her mother may be totally against saving her daughter's ass, since that would be a disgrace to their family honor, or something along these lines.

"Tell her that I'm doing fine if you could".
Lola perhaps thought her mama might be worried or unaware of her status. At least it should indicate her mama would care for her well-being. In any case she should just say her mama is Big Mam for convenient if her mama is that infamous.
After all Lola ended up begging the help of a stranger instead of her Mama. What honor.

asm00200

@THE:

The shichibukai was established to balance with Yonkou and Hancock was invited to be a Shichibukai 11 years ago (13 years after Timeskip) so the Yonkou must have existed before that.
Luffy is a clueless idiot while Lola's crew seemed informed. They knew "the mermaid princess surpass even Pirate Empress Hancock in beauty", no way they wouldn't know their captain's mom is a Yonkou if she were.

I guess I could agree with this. I could assume that Big Mam isn't from the original Yonkou whom the Shichibukai were created for (so the time Lola spent looking for her shadow was the time she became a yonkou), but that would be going too far in speculation.

If Big Mam suddenly lost contact with her daughter she would likely to investigate. The daughter of a Yonkou suddenly disappeared and nobody did anything?

assuming she is the caring type, and if she knows her daughter is a pirate then she won't try to interfere much with her journey. and 3 years in the pirate life isn't a long time.

op.d.fan

@Refii:

All of Whitebeard's crew called him pops.
Pops = dad, none of them (to our knowledge) were of actual blood relation to him.

Big Mom, being Lola's "mom" does not establish her as her daughter, but rather as one of her crew as far as I'm concerned.

A yonkou would not be named Big Mom because she is the famous mother of Lola, but rather because she, like Whitebeard, has a motherly relationship with her crew.
Lola is a Squadro/Ace/Jozu on Big Mom's crew, that is all.

As for her being weak, remember even Roger had a Buggy, and Shanks has Rockstar (who compared to Luffy bounty wise would be fodder).

squardo, ace, jozu,shanks are not on same level as lola and buggy

lola's underlings say captain lola's mama is a great pirate ..if she is mama to every one they would have said our mama

Kudo29

This is what is going to happen:

Big Mum is actually a bad character forcing Van der Decken (=Strawhat) to destroy FI!

Lekkere Mokken!

MrXYZ

Mangastream new tweet:

"Errors in this weeks OP chapter have all been updated and fixed. Please reread for you enjoyment pleasure. :)"

asm00200

@op.d.fan:

lola's underlings say captain lola's mama is a great pirate ..if she is mama to every one they would have said our mama

Not really. Lola could've been part of Big Mam's crew and then she started her own crew, so they can't call her their Mama but their captain's Mama.

THE SEA

@asm00200:

Not really. Lola could've been part of Big Mam's crew and then she started her own crew, so they can't call her their Mama but their captain's Mama.

Squardo's crew would call WB pop. Even though Squardo wasn't an official member of the WB pirates.
All his allies called him pop.

asm00200

But the whole crew were an official allies, where on the other hand Lola's crew isn't.

Refii

All the instances of Father/son Mother/daughter relationships have shown that "strength" does carry on in the bloodline, so either Big Mom is the weakest Yonkou (well Shonen and females) or Lola just got really bad genes.

THE SEA

@asm00200:

But the whole crew were an official allies, where on the other hand Lola's crew isn't.

If Lola's just like Squardo then the big lip symbol meant nothing.

enther

Big Mom may refer to Mother Nature. If she has a devil fruit that has something to do with plants. In this case Lola will be her blood daughter and judging for her appearance it's really possible.

Lutzu

i hope we wiil see a pirate crew from NW send by Big Mum to collect the share of candy's because i don't think she comes personally in FI.

THE SEA

Might as well repost this:
@THE:

The shichibukai was established to balance with Yonkou and Hancock was invited to be a Shichibukai 11 years ago (13 years after Timeskip) so the Yonkou must have existed before that.
Luffy is a clueless idiot while Lola's crew seemed informed. They knew "the mermaid princess surpass even Pirate Empress Hancock in beauty", no way they wouldn't know their captain's mom is a Yonkou if she were.

@THE:

If she were, Lola would be more likely to say something along of those lines: My mom is a Yonkou, or My mom is one of the four strongest pirates, rather than "My mom is a strong pirate." Big Mam is massively famous, universally known; and if Lola had intention to help the SH she would just say her name, for convenient future reference, and there's no reason for her to be ambiguous about it. (and if I remember correctly, it's the two brothers who mentioned it, and they're rather talkative, somewhat boastful, so it's even more unlikely that they would hide such a fact.)

asm00200

@THE:

If Lola's just like Squardo then the big lip symbol meant nothing.

Why? She's like Squardo in being a part of the crew, Squardo was still being called a division commander. That doesn't mean she can't be part of Big Mam's crew and also a real daughter. (Hence the big lips)
@Refii:

All the instances of Father/son Mother/daughter relationships have shown that "strength" does carry on in the bloodline.

What about Usopp, his father is a member of Shanks crew yet his son is the weakest of the SH.

FireFistAce 0

I find it interesting that Oda romanized it as Mam and not Mom or Mum. Even though Mam can be slang for Mother, there's also a historic "Isle of Mam" off the coast of Ireland. Mam is supposedly a "phantom island", or underwater, which would fit in with Fishman Island.

And though I doubt this one is related, Monoacetylmorphine, also called Mam, is a metabolite of Heroin, which may refer to Big Mam's "Candy Making" (cmon, now) activities.

kouch_lee

Oh, shit. I forgot the Vivre card only works in "one direction".

That's what happens when you don't re-read something before posting.

And Lola's comment about her mother. . .

I couldn't fail any harder had I tried.

Knuckle

@MrXYZ:

Mangastream new tweet:

"Errors in this weeks OP chapter have all been updated and fixed. Please reread for you enjoyment pleasure. :)"

But it seems the mistake en page 07 remains (when Shirley talks about human customers).
Anyway, thanks for the update

THE SEA

@asm00200:

What about Usopp, his father is a member of Shanks crew yet his son is the weakest of the SH.

Usopp has incredible sniping talent and so far unrivaled among the crew as well as the opponents he has faced. This especially shined in Enies Lobby where his extraordinary skill amazed the Marines. He also defeated Daddy Masterson (this one's Oda's intention, he just cut it off for the 100th chapter thing.)
[hide]Due to Yasopp sparing his life, Daddy's pride had been tarnished hence he resigned as a marine officer. Years later, he meets Usopp in Loguetown and challenges him to a duel. Usopp tried to run away at first, but eventually came to his senses and requested a real duel with Daddy. Daddy instead issued a challenge where Usopp had to hit a far off weather-vane with his slingshot on the first try. Usopp not only passed the challenge but hits the impossible-to-see gem on the weather vane. Daddy congratulated him, convincing him not to lose courage and that he'll find his father in the Grand Line, and Carol, his daughter, gave Usopp the goggles he had tried to buy earlier.[/hide]
There's no indication that Yasopp is one of the top among Redhair crew in term of physical strength.

Refii

What The Sea said, now unless Big Mom has some broken devil fruit, I don't really see how Lola ended up weak and enslaved on an island.

Oksa

@Fire Fist:

I find it interesting that Oda romanized it as Mam and not Mom or Mum. Even though Mam can be slang for Mother, there's also a historic "Isle of Mam" off the coast of Ireland. Mam is supposedly a "phantom island", or underwater, which would fit in with Fishman Island.

It's funny that her name in Green was Big Mom. I take this as a proof that the romanizations in that book aren't necessarily the right ones, so I can happily keep calling Jinbei and Moria like that.

LuffyLuffyNoMi

@asm00200:

What about Usopp, his father is a member of Shanks crew yet his son is the weakest of the SH.

I guess he meant skill instead of strength, didn't he?

Luffy remembered that Yasopp was a great sniper when meeting his son, and so Usopp turned out to be[come] a great sniper…

FireFistAce 0

@Oksa:

It's funny that her name in Green was Big Mom. I take this as a proof that the romanizations in that book aren't necessarily the right ones, so I can happily keep calling Jinbei and Moria like that.

I would think that the author's own romanization in an actual canon chapter would hold more weight than the data book, which is not entirely Oda, but also contribution by Editors and Assistants, but take it as you will.

Oksa

@Fire Fist:

I would think that the author's own romanization in an actual canon chapter would hold more weight than the data book, which is not entirely Oda, but also contribution by Editors and Assistants, but take it as you will.

That's what I meant. In the data book Jinbei and Moria were written as Jinbe and Moriah, and people are now using those versions. But with this Big Mom/Big Mam romanization, it's pretty clear that they may be romanized wrong in Green and we should wait for Oda's confirmation.

asm00200

@SEA and Refii:

I guess we'll have to wait on this, I would relate Usopp's abilities to his training, but it's true that it's unique from anybody else.

Anyway, I don't have anything to add on Big Mam's relation with Lola.

Refii

!

RPG KING

Ussop is strong in sniping but acual strength is kinda ify. less since the time skip .He will always be a little afraid. he's the only normal one in the crew.nami's boobs make her anything but normal

joekido the Second

@ProtectYaNeck:

I'm guessing that Luffy destroys the island to encourage the fish/mermen to live in harmony with the humans on the surface or something. It reminds me of that Futurama episode where they arrived on a planet inhabited by robots that are afraid of fire-breathing humans.

That will not make any sense. That is like America is fighting the Middle East, Europe decided to destory everything in America to force us to live the Middle East in harmony. It just sounded too forceful and Luffy destorying Fishman Island to make Fish/Mermen to live in harmony with humans is evil and it's like your taking something from them. Luffy would've do something like that

Refii

@RPG:

Ussop is strong in sniping but acual strength is kinda ify. less since the time skip .He will always be a little afraid. he's the only normal one in the crew.nami's boobs make her anything but normal

This is a 6 year old argument on these forums, but yes Ussop has always been extraordinary, both for his sniping and for his durability, think back to Alabasta and his team-up with Chopper, any normal human would have died.

I did misuse strength, I should have used the word potential or ability, because in all instances of parent-child we have seen in One Piece, part of the potential/ability is passed on to the offspring.

Bentham

I don't really think anyone will be able to acurately predict under what circumstanses luffy will destroy fishman island, but boy it'll be fun to find out

blendingur69

This post is deleted!

blendingur69

Why? She's like Squardo in being a part of the crew, Squardo was still being called a division commander. That doesn't mean she can't be part of Big Mam's crew and also a real daughter. (Hence the big lips)

Was Squardo ever called a division commander? I thought he and his crew were just a sidebranch. Correct me if I'm wrong.