Chapter 588 "Sabo's Ocean" Discussion

[Sammsy]

@GaaraofTheDesert:

Maybe he got into a situation like Brook, its possible that he is trapped in the New World. Maybe he is in a prison in Elbaf or something !

@GaaraofTheDesert:

Sabo isnt dead. Igaram died the same way. If he joined Dragon and Dragon told him to shut his mouth up and that they are not going for the war..when he shutted his mouth.

@LightningAce:

Sabo survived…but ended up with amnesia. I said it first.

and you should see the even more plentiful excuses for where Sabo is, why he didin't show, why he never told Luffy/Ace he is alvie and so on in the spoiler section.

some other ones off top head are, he is world noble slave, he is Law, he is a spy so can't blow cover, he turned evil.

hmm what else where there out there to explain Sabo. You guys are really starting to come off as desperate on your attempts to keep this man alive. sure he could be alive, but really are we going to be predicting sabo's return or show up every week like how it is for dragon.

[isrnick]

@I:

You misunderstood me. I meant that we have no definative proof that, if Sabo lived, it was even possible for them to meet (as in something might have prevented them meeting that we do not yet know about). Make sense?

Doesn't matter what are the circumstances, if they were both alive they should have met no matter what so that the promise could be kept, but they didn't, which makes their broken promise even worse (if Sabo had really survived, that is).

[Czechmate]

@Maes:

This just doesn't look like the eye of someone about to die:

[qimg]http://img44.imageshack.us/img44/7717/sabozn.jpg[/qimg]

I can't tell if you're joking or not. .__.

[Robo Gorilla]

It's a bit of a stretch, but I've come up with something in support of Sabo really being alive. On the last page Sabo's letter talks about how it's weird that there are 2 first born sons. As a way of fixing that Sabo seemingly died leaving 1 first born and one younger brother. However, now that ace is dead, maybe Sabo will return to take the role of Luffy's older brother. As I said it's a stretch, but if not for that, why include the part about 2 first borns when birthdays solve the problem?

[Gia Sado]

@Maes:

This just doesn't look like the eye of someone about to die:

[qimg]http://img44.imageshack.us/img44/7717/sabozn.jpg[/qimg]

Actually that looks like the badass mofo is just going to end up ALMOST dead.

[Akumu]

@Ichnob:

No body = no death?

Kuina's off-screen death would like a word with you. Personally, kids don't die onscreen in OP. Put me down in the "Sabo is dead" camp.

We saw Kuina's body
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/5/16/

[superluffy1]

Wasn't the "S" on Ace's tattoo crossed out because the tattooist spelled his name with an "S" instead of a "C" and promptly crossed it out to correct it?

[Robo Gorilla]

That was the theory, but now we know the real reason.

[mickgreen58]

@isrnick:

Doesn't matter what are the circumstances, if they were both alive they should have met no matter what so that the promise could be kept, but they didn't, which makes their broken promise even worse (if Sabo had really survived, that is).

I disagree.

There are other plausible explanations to explain why Sabo never reunited with Ace and Luffy, if Sabo survived.

[Deicide]

So, it happens like I said it would happen. Either Sabo would die, or he would appear to die in a way even we readers couldn't tell for sure.

And those who expect Sabo to appear alive before the flashback ends… forget it. The flashback will end and Sabo will still (appear to) be dead. If he's alive, it will be revealed after the flashback ends, when and if he appears in the present. We won't have a happy flashback ending followed by the story returning to the present and finding Luffy still crying. From the moment it began, the flashback could only end in a situation that added to Luffy's suffering.

@mickgreen58:

I disagree.

There are other plausible explanations to explain why Sabo never reunited with Ace and Luffy, if Sabo survived.

Yes, there are.

For one, Sabo may not know that Luffy and Ace were told his ship was destroyed, so he never felt the need to return and tell them. He sent them a letter, right?

However, that doesn't explain why he never looked for Ace in the three years Ace was in the sea, or why he didn't try to meet Luffy like Ace did in Alabasta.

I, for one, think Sabo is dead. But his death was so ambiguous, there's a chance of he being alive.

[Eneru]

One thing I can say is that when Sabo is writing the letter he looks an awful lot like Merry. o_o

[GetsugaZoro]

Man this chapter was sad :(, really awesome chapter in my opinion in terms of dramatic scenes, poor Sabo but i doubt the kid is dead.

[Zkaiser]

@Robo:

That was the theory, but now we know the real reason.

Yeah… No.

[Ichnob]

@Akumu:

We saw Kuina's body
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/5/16/

Thanks for that. Could it be in the anime then that they didn't really show her body? I might be remembering that instead.

Fact remains that Dogra witnessed the whole thing happen. With binoculars nonetheless. I'm still in the "Sabo is dead" camp.

[Robo Gorilla]

@Zkaiser:

Yeah… No.

So you believe that it was actually a retarded tattoo artist's mistake and not based off the exact same symbol found on Sabo's last words to Ace and Luffy?

[Sammsy]

@Robo:

So you believe that it was actually a retarded tattoo artist's mistake and not based off the exact same symbol found on Sabo's last words to Ace and Luffy?

i don't know if Oda was serious back then about the mistake, but even if he was he obviously changed his mind and it wasn't a mistake but on purpose.

how can anyone believe after seeing this mark that it isn't on purpose. also was a poor excuse on Oda in first place i mean come on, how the hell does a tattoo artist make an S instead of a C and Ace the whole time not noticing.

[superluffy1]

@Robo:

That was the theory, but now we know the real reason.

Oh I see. Thanks for the clarification.

[Ichnob]

@Sammsy:

how can anyone believe after seeing this mark that it isn't on purpose. also was a poor excuse on Oda in first place i mean come on, how the hell does a tattoo artist make an S instead of a C and Ace the whole time not noticing.

Ace is narcoleptic. Also, I've accepted the fact that there are pirates that can't spell.

[isrnick]

@superluffy1:

Wasn't the "S" on Ace's tattoo crossed out because the tattooist spelled his name with an "S" instead of a "C" and promptly crossed it out to correct it?

No, that was some wiki bullshit.

@mickgreen58:

I disagree.

There are other plausible explanations to explain why Sabo never reunited with Ace and Luffy, if Sabo survived.

I have just said it, if Sabo survives, the reason why Sabo never reunited doesn't matter… What matter is that he made a promise to meet them again in the sea, but his brothers believe he died, even thought he actually didn't, so to his brother the promise was broken, but he lived all those years and they have never met and now Ace died, if he comes back now the broken promise will be even more terrible because they lived all those years, which means they could somehow have met, and yet they have never met, and now it isn't possible anymore.

Doesn't matter if Sabo had amnesia, or whatever, in this case if necessary then fate itself (or chance) should have made them meet, because anyway only fate would be a good justification of how and why it was possible that Sabo survived.

[Kishido]

@Deicide:

So, it happens like I said it would happen. Either Sabo would die, or he would appear to die in a way even we readers couldn't tell for sure.

And those who expect Sabo to appear alive before the flashback ends… forget it. The flashback will end and Sabo will still (appear to) be dead. If he's alive, it will be revealed after the flashback ends, when and if he appears in the present. We won't have a happy flashback ending followed by the story returning to the present and finding Luffy still crying. From the moment it began, the flashback could only end in a situation that added to Luffy's suffering.

Yes, there are.

For one, Sabo may not know that Luffy and Ace were told his ship was destroyed, so he never felt the need to return and tell them. He sent them a letter, right?

However, that doesn't explain why he never looked for Ace in the three years Ace was in the sea, or why he didn't try to meet Luffy like Ace did in Alabasta.

I, for one, think Sabo is dead. But his death was so ambiguous, there's a chance of he being alive.

Yeah same too but you forgot the war…

He had plenty of time to head to the war but still nothing

[mickgreen58]

@Deicide:

However, that doesn't explain why he never looked for Ace in the three years Ace was in the sea, or why he didn't try to meet Luffy like Ace did in Alabasta.

I, for one, think Sabo is dead. But his death was so ambiguous, there's a chance of he being alive.

I think the best scenario is that Sabo eventually becomes a revolutionary.

If this is the case, I don't believe his top priority would be to reunite with Ace and Luffy, even at Marineford, where the stakes were very high and ended in tragedy.

I just believe that the meeting between Sabo and Dragon, although very brief, was very symbolic and may have foreshadowed Sabo joining the revolutionaries at some point.

[Hekti]

awesome chapter, thanks.

I think the flashback is almost over, maybe 1 or 2 more chapters.

I can't (don't) believe that Sabo died. I mean that's … cruel xD

Sabo is so of a cool character and I am surprised of myself saying so since we know him for just some chapters.

Oda's just great.

[Maes Hughes]

@KiShiDo:

Yeah same too but you forgot the war…

He had plenty of time to head to the war but still nothing

Maybe he doesn't read the news like Luffy?

@Sammsy:

i don't know if Oda was serious back then about the mistake, but even if he was he obviously changed his mind and it wasn't a mistake but on purpose.

how can anyone believe after seeing this mark that it isn't on purpose. also was a poor excuse on Oda in first place i mean come on, how the hell does a tattoo artist make an S instead of a C and Ace the whole time not noticing.

I'm trying to imagine Ace telling a tattoo artist to put a crossed out S after the A in ACE… doesn't make sense to me. Maybe the tattoo artist really did make a mistake and Ace just beat the crap out of him or just didn't care.

[StrawHat]

Not sure if this was posted before but Kuma(Lower left slide) was there when Sabo ship was on fire.He might have saved Sabo.

http://www.mangastream.com/read/one_piece/73205842/4

[Deicide]

@KiShiDo:

Yeah same too but you forgot the war…

He had plenty of time to head to the war but still nothing

I know. I'm in the same camp as you here. I don't think Sabo survived, and if he survived then we need a good explanation about why he never tried to meet Ace or Luffy before.

@StrawHat:

Not sure if this was posted before but Kuma(Lower left slide) was there when Sabo ship was on fire.He might have saved Sabo.

http://www.mangastream.com/read/one_piece/73205842/4

Where are you seeing Kuma???

[Gizmo]

I wanted to suggest this earlier, but there should've been a poll on this thread as to whether Sabo is dead or alive. I'm just interested in what the majority is thinking right now.

Still think Sabo is dead. Sure there was no body, but I think that Dogura would've stuck around and checked if there was a body.
And it seems that Dogura specially said that Sabo died, so it's most likely that he's dead. If there was no body, then Dogura would've just said Sabo's ship was blown to pieces instead. If the mountain bandits had faith that Ace/Dadan survived, there's no reason to believe that Dogura wouldn't think Sabo is alive unless there was specific evidence to the contrary.

[ElectricField]

What a sad chapter. Now we know why Ace refused to run from his enemies, it was because he was afraid that whomever it was would hurt the ones he loved. ;_;

I want Sabo to have a good reason for not showing up until now. This is because he didn't come to help Luffy rescue Ace, and I'm sure he would've climbed the Red Line if he had to if he was still the kind of person he was here, and the alternative would mean that he face-turned somehow. That would break me up.

[Ichnob]

@StrawHat:

Not sure if this was posted before but Kuma(Lower left slide) was there when Sabo ship was on fire.He might have saved Sabo.

http://www.mangastream.com/read/one_piece/73205842/4

That's not Kuma. Wrong hair, incorrect jawline, and way too small because Dogra is tiny.

[Robo Gorilla]

@StrawHat:

Not sure if this was posted before but Kuma(Lower left slide) was there when Sabo ship was on fire.He might have saved Sabo.

http://www.mangastream.com/read/one_piece/73205842/4

Umm, I see Pandaman but no Kuma.

Pandaman is on this page, right next to the second speech bubble.
http://www.mangastream.com/read/one_piece/73205842/6

[mickgreen58]

@isrnick:

No, that was some wiki bullshit.

I have just said it, if Sabo survives, the reason why Sabo never reunited doesn't matter… What matter is that he made a promise to meet them again in the sea, but his brothers believe he died, even thought he actually didn't, so to his brother the promise was broken, but he lived all those years and they have never met and now Ace died, if he comes back now the broken promise will be even more terrible because they lived all those years, which means they could somehow have met, and yet they have never met, and now it isn't possible anymore.

Doesn't matter if Sabo had amnesia, or whatever, in this case if necessary then fate itself (or chance) should have made them meet, because anyway only fate would be a good justification of how and why it was possible that Sabo survived.

I really have to disagree.

The One Piece landscape is littered with tragedies and this could very well be one of them.

Also, a "good" justification for Sabo surviving would be for "revenge" or more realistically, for him to help Dragon change this world full of human stench. Sabo knows more then most people just how dangerous and fickle Celestial Dragons really are.

Let us not forget what Dadan said to Ace, "This world killed Sabo". So Sabo has many justifications for living, the most paramount being, it's kind of nice to be alive .

For people that claim that the main reason Sabo is most likely dead is because he didn't come to Marinfored. You guys do realize that Dragon didn't even come to Marineford to offer aid to Luffy, his own son?

[Sammsy]

@mickgreen58:

I think the best scenario is that Sabo eventually becomes a revolutionary.

If this is the case, I don't believe his top priority would be to reunite with Ace and Luffy, even at Marineford, where the stakes were very high and ended in tragedy.

I just believe that the meeting between Sabo and Dragon, although very brief, was very symbolic and may have foreshadowed Sabo joining the revolutionaries at some point.

I just can't see him not going to meet him. He seemed very much into the whole brotherhood they had and woudl WANT to see them. hell look at Ace, he went out of his way to just see Shanks, why coudlnt' Sabo do the same to his brothers?

@KiShiDo:

Yeah same too but you forgot the war…

He had plenty of time to head to the war but still nothing

yea i hate the argument of he couldn't get there in time. Look at Whitebeard. Where the hell was he when he got the newspaper, or where was his whoel crew, where were the 47 new world pirate crew ships?

Were they all convientiently having a big family reunion at the time and near red line as well. I mean they had to all get to teh red line, get their ship coated and go through fishman island and then sail to marineford. if all of wb's crew/commanders himself, and these 47 other crews could do it, it seems pretty much anyone coudl have reached in time. And I'm sure WG made it that way. There is no point to their plan if Whitebeard is too far away to reach marineford.
@isrnick:

I have just said it, if Sabo survives, the reason why Sabo never reunited doesn't matter… What matter is that he made a promise to meet them again in the sea, but his brothers believe he died, even thought he actually didn't, so to his brother the promise was broken, but he lived all those years and they have never met and now Ace died, if he comes back now the broken promise will be even more terrible because they lived all those years, which means they could somehow have met, and yet they have never met, and now it isn't possible anymore.

Doesn't matter if Sabo had amnesia, or whatever, in this case if necessary then fate itself (or chance) should have made them meet, because anyway only fate would be a good justification of how and why it was possible that Sabo survived.

just quoting this to say about that promise, unless he has amnesia why did he not fulfill that promise. as i said Ace went out of his way to go and meet with a YONKOU who he has no relation with and anything could have happened all jus tin order to thank him for saving Luffy's life. I think Sabo could have gone a little out of his way to go and meet with Ace and Luffy at some point.

[Deicide]

@mickgreen58:

For people that claim that the main reason Sabo is most likely dead is because he didn't come to Marinfored. You guys do realize that Dragon didn't even come to Marineford to offer aid to Luffy, his own son?

As far as we know, Dragon had no reason to believe Luffy would be there.

[Faye317]

It's not like Oda could say "actually the S refers to Ace's other brother", he just said it was a mistake to lead us on (if he indeed said it)

[StrawHat]

@Deicide:

I know. I'm in the same camp as you here. I don't think Sabo survived, and if he survived then we need a good explanation about why he never tried to meet Ace or Luffy before.

Where are you seeing Kuma???

The guy wears the same clothes as Kuma IMO and that must be how Kuma looked before he turned into a robot.

[Sabo]

I thought Sabo was Ace's brother? So like Luffy wouldin't he try to save him at Impel Down like Luffy did?! Hell, as far as we know he wasin't even at the Ace's execution.

So if Sabo is still alive (which I doubt..) he is probably a changed person (personality wise). Or their is some unknown reason as to why he didn't try to save Ace…

Edit - Glad to see some other people agree with me

[Sammsy]

@mickgreen58:

For people that claim that the main reason Sabo is most likely dead is because he didn't come to Marinfored. You guys do realize that Dragon didn't even come to Marineford to offer aid to Luffy, his own son?

no we are not saying that he didn't come to marineford, we are mostly saying why didnt' he come see luffy or ace before then?

hell its been what 10 years since this event, Ace was out being a pirate going on 4 years, and Luffy nearing 1 year. and the way Ace mentions Sabo in his dying moments doesn't sound like a mentioning fo someone he knows is alive. It still appears he thinks sabo is dead, thus if he is alive, why didn't he ever go see Ace or Luffy?

Ace went out of his way to meet with Shanks

[Zik]

An obsessed dedicated Sabo is alive supporter should reread the war to see if any shady figures were around.

[Gizmo]

Another thing. I'm guessing there was no body because either Oda or the editors would not want to show pictures of a blown up child corpse to readers whose demographic is young boys. Just saying.

[AtARU]

@Maes:

This just doesn't look like the eye of someone about to die:

[qimg]http://img44.imageshack.us/img44/7717/sabozn.jpg[/qimg]

he's clearly using Haki :ninja:

[Deicide]

@AdmiralYonkouMt.Bandit:

An obsessed dedicated Sabo is alive supporter should reread the war to see if any shady figures were around.

I think Sabo's dead, but if there's a small chance of he being alive, I guess those saying he's a revolutionary and maybe even the one in Robin's coverstory (even though that guy's design sucks) are the most probable outcomes.

Doesn't explain why he never tried to meet Ace or Luffy before, though.

@ultimateclima:

Another thing. I'm guessing there was no body because either Oda or the editors would not want to show pictures of a blown up child corpse to readers whose demographic is young boys. Just saying.

Yes. The destroyed ship and floating hat are more than enough to send the message.

[freedom]

@Mr.333:

Is someone else using my Account? I didn't type that :wassat:

It's the spirits, I tell ya! Spirits!
AP is possessed by devils with magical powers. :ninja:

I thoroughly enjoyed this chapter. It hit a lot of important points.
What happened to Sabo. Why Ace & Luffy considered him dead. Now all we need is for Ace and Luffy to make their promise and we're set.

[Kishido]

@mickgreen58:

For people that claim that the main reason Sabo is most likely dead is because he didn't come to Marinfored. You guys do realize that Dragon didn't even come to Marineford to offer aid to Luffy, his own son?

How should Dragon know that Luffy would appear there if a week before his crew was destroyed by Kuma and spread around the world.

How could he know Luffy would make friends with Boa who would take him to ID to free Iva, Jinbei and all the other which would take him to MHQ?
Iva himself stated… If Ace would be really the son of Dragon, he would appear as well. And don't come with he had no time for it or didn't made it in time. QB + NW captains made it in time. Shanks after fighting Kaidou made it in time as well. He also has years of time to show himself. He should know Luffy and Ace would hear the news about him being shot by the World Nobles and they would be afraid that something happened.

[GetsugaZoro]

Sabo lost his memory and is in some random isle and Luffy will find him in the future.

Or Luffy dies in the end of the manga and the 3 meet again after dead.

[Zik]

@Deicide:

I think Sabo's dead, but if there's a small chance of he being alive, I guess those saying he's a revolutionary and maybe even the one in Robin's coverstory (even though that guy's design sucks) are the most probable outcomes.

Doesn't explain why he never tried to meet Ace or Luffy before, though

Not sold on Oda just showing Sabo in plain sight prior to this myself if anything he doesn't show his face.

As far as why he never met them one thing I thought of while reading the chap is that whoever he's with he may have wanted to but couldn't and as time went on he actually did change like he hoped wouldn't here. Not to say he becomes a villain but just not the same child like Sabo. A darker change that possibly made him ignore or throw away is brotherly ties. Nothing new but I'm going off what Sabo has voiced displeasure about and him becoming it in a way would then actually make him an actual tragic hero.

Think how Enzo Matrix(the original) changed in Reboot.

[Robby]

Ace backtracked to basically the start of the grand line to hunt for BB. If Sabo, who left before Ace, kept going, he would have gotten to the new world and had no real need to backtrack. Ace was made an effort to meet up with Luffy, but only because he was in the general vicinity anyway.

Of course, Ace also gained fame on Whitebeard's crew, so Sabo not meeting up with him after that is a little odd, but there's thousands of reasonable and plausible explanations for why he wouldn't, being part of the revolutionaries being an incredibly fitting one.

As for why he didn't attend the execution? May have simply been too far away. Luffy only made it with a day to spare through the love of a shichubukai, access to a special government current, and sheer fluke of timing and access. If Sabo was any further away, (like… the new world) well, making it in time would be, not only incredibly difficult, but possibly... impossible. Even if he was trying his hardest to get there.

Also, I prefer Ace's mispelled tattoo be an artist's mistake, that was far more hilarious and character building and said something about Ace's attitude. A symbolic gesture? Meh. But between the flag and the letter, its definatley being driven home, so thats probably what it is.

Considering Nojiko and Nami already had that sort of sybolism with tattoos, I don't care for it, even if its where it seems to be going.

@Deicide:

Yes. The destroyed ship

Like the one Igaram was in that Robin blew up? Or like Going Merry when it was smashed upon the rocks?

and floating hat are more than enough to send the message.

Like when Luffy fought Crocadile? Or when Ace fought Blackbeard? Or while Jimbei was carrying Luffy away from Akainu?

Its symbolism, sure. And its suggestive of death. But its Oda-cheat style sybolism.

You don't have to show the body to the readers for a character to see it with their own eyes. Also. Silhouettes are useful for that sort of thing.

[Das Feierbiest]

I don't understand why people see Sabo not showing up in the war as proof he's dead. The execution was announced 1 week before it happened (unless I missed something). So maybe Sabo was on the other side of the world fighting his own battle an heared of it to late, maybe there was no ship available (not everyone has Boa and Marineships to tranport), maybe Dragon forbid him to go and therefore locked him up until the execution was over, maybe he had to assign priotities and decided his mission is more important, maybe he's indeed dead. None of us knows it but him not showing up at marineford doesn't proof anything.

Afterall, we all thought laboons friends just have to be dead, too.

[isrnick]

@mickgreen58:

I really have to disagree.

The One Piece landscape is littered with tragedies and this could very well be one of them.

Also, a "good" justification for Sabo surviving would be for "revenge" or more realistically, for him to help Dragon change this world full of human stench. Sabo knows more then most people just how dangerous and fickle Celestial Dragons really are.

Let us not forget what Dadan said to Ace, "This world killed Sabo". So Sabo has many justifications for living, the most paramount being, it's kind of nice to be alive .

I'm not arguing about he being alive or not (even though I don't think he is), I'm just saying one of the reasons why Sabo being alive would make his apparent death during all these years be an even worse thing.

@mickgreen58:

For people that claim that the main reason Sabo is most likely dead is because he didn't come to Marinfored. You guys do realize that Dragon didn't even come to Marineford to offer aid to Luffy, his own son?

And you think he would do what? Teleport himself from somewhere far away right into the middle of the battlefield in the moment he saw on the television that Luffy was there?

He didn't have any idea that Luffy would be there, in fact he probably didn't even know that Luffy considered Ace as his brother, and the war lasted only a few hours, so when he found out, it was already too late, there was nothing he could do to help Luffy.

[Sammsy]

@robbybedfart:

Ace backtracked to basically the start of the grand line to hunt for BB. If Sabo, who left before Ace, kept going, he would have gotten to the new world and had no real need to backtrack. Ace was made an effort to meet up with Luffy, but only because he was in the general vicinity anyway.

Of course, Ace also gained fame on Whitebeard's crew, so Sabo not meeting up with him after that is a little odd, but there's thousands of reasonable and plausible explanations for why he wouldn't, being part of the revolutionaries being an incredibly fitting one.

As for why he didn't attend the execution? May have simply been too far away. Luffy only made it with a day to spare through the love of a shichubukai, access to a special government current, and sheer fluke of timing and access. If Sabo was any further away, (like… the new world) well, making it in time would be, not only incredibly difficult, but possibly... impossible. Even if he was trying his hardest to get there.

Also, I prefer Ace's mispelled tattoo be an artist's mistake, that was far more hilarious and character building and said something about Ace's attitude. A symbolic gesture? Meh. But between the flag and the letter, its definatley being driven home, so thats probably what it is.

Considering Nojiko and Nami already had that sort of sybolism with tattoos, I don't care for it, even if its where it seems to be going.

well like you said Ace is a big name and was with whitebeard for a while so time then for Sabo to meet him. Before he got to whitebeard he was sailing straight on and so forth, adn as you said he traversed all over and back looking for blackbeard. And lets not forget that wherever Shanks is, Ace went and found him out. It just seems hard to imagine in all that tiem and places Ace has been that Sabo has not been near enough or had the chance to pop a head in or at least somehow send a letter or something.

as for the not showing up in war, who knows why he wouldnt' have, but i have hard time excusing the didn' thave time one. Luffy had plenty of time to reach marineford with normal ship, just that going there was more risky than impel down so he went there instead. But anyway besidse Luffy, we have 47 new world ships + those of whitebeard and his crwe that who knows where they were all scattered in the new world. But they ALL managed to get back to the old world to marineford in time, which includes getting all their ships coated. And hmm it takes rayleigh 3 days to coat a ship. not saying you can't do it faster, but its not just so simple as reach red line bow a bubble in seconds and head on through.

[Deicide]

@robbybedfart:

As for why he didn't attend the execution? May have simply been too far away. Luffy only made it with a day to spare through the love of a shichubukai, access to a special government current, and sheer fluke of timing and access. If Sabo was any further away, (like… the new world) well, making it in time would be, not only incredibly difficult, but possibly... impossible. Even if he was trying his hardest to get there.

The news of the execution appeared seven days before the execution itself. Luffy knew it two days after the news. Whitebeard raised a whole armada of 47 New World captains and arrived in time. I find it hard that Sabo wouldn't be able to get there as well.

Like the one carrying Vivi's childhood friend and guardian that Robin blew up? Or like Going Merry when it was smashed upon the rocks?

We never saw Igaram's ship destroyed. If I remember correctly, there was a huge explosion and that's it.

Its symbolism, sure. But its Oda-cheat style sybolism.

I know Sabo may be alive, but the point is that Oda did not need to show Sabo's body in order to tell the message that Sabo died. The details between Sabo's ship and Igaram's ship were different, even if the events were similar.

[Sammsy]

@robbybedfart:

Like the one Igaram was in that Robin blew up? Or like Going Merry when it was smashed upon the rocks?

Like when Luffy fought Crocadile? Or when Ace fought Blackbeard? Or while Jimbei was carrying Luffy away from Akainu?

Its symbolism, sure. And its suggestive of death. But its Oda-cheat style sybolism.

You don't have to show the body to the readers for a character to see it with their own eyes. Also. Silhouettes are useful for that sort of thing.

the only thing different about all those events are they are present tense. We are left with thinking they are dead, yet what happens? They show up again some time later.

Guess who hasnt' shown up yet sometime later?
@Deicide:

The news of the execution appeared seven days before the execution itself. Luffy knew it two days after the news. Whitebeard raised a whole armada of 47 New World captains and arrived in time. I find it hard that Sabo wouldn't be able to get there as well.

exactly, and not ot mention being all NEW WORLD captains they all had to also coat their ships, which takes time.

It just seems impossible time wise, like oda made a plot hole. how did 47 ships plus whitebeard all happen to be within a weeks sailing from marineford when it took almos that long for luffy to get from basically the island next door to marineford?