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And I'm not ridiculing people for being upset over Ace or the psychological pain inflicted on Luffy but I find it ludicrous to get so hung up over it as to call Akainu the worst villain there is when there are really a lot more assholeish creatures dwelling in the GL.
Quoted for truth, especially since people seem to have forgoten that ship load of civilians that the Akainu shot down in Ohara. That is a solid act of pure evil right there.
Well for instance about 20.000ish british soldiers commited offenses that were punishable by death. And only about 300 were actualy executed. So not that many considering how many fought in the war.
But yeah looking back at it with our current view of our own militaries and how every soldier counts those diehard wars of attriation seem so foreign and strange. I mean the US army got some second thoughts after 3000 dead in Iraq, While to someone like Haig those casualties were made in a day or two of active combat and were hardly worth noting.
Justified moraly or by the law
Either way how Coby was rallying troops for a mutinty in the middle of a descisive battle was pretty much him asking for a death sentance.
While that one soldier deserting his post, should have been a jail term or expulsion from the marines or something like that. Felt Akainu went way overboard there.
Morally is what were talking here since the laws in one piece haven't always shown the best judgment, and just by seeing the top part of your argument I can tell we'll never see eye to eye on this
I don't just look at the numbers your presenting as just numbers, each ones a living person, with a family tied to them, the fact that people think killing people because they disagree with what the top brass tells them is justified completely blows my mind, the only time I would feel justified in killing a person is if there a murder, rapist or in some cases an accomplice to the other
Akainu shouldn't have killed the guy, locked him up, imprisoned him, stripped him of his glory and then publicly announce him a criminal for not doing the job he signed up for, yes
but to go kill him shows he's one bad ass mofo
and coby was trying to show a different point of view on the war, I mean they were leaving there men to die who could survive, it's not like the WG isn't corrupt, even smoker and tashigi commented then how fucked up the marines were acting, what he did was voice his opinion about killing people who had no will to fight and therefore causing deaths of your own teammates
and if you believe he should be killed for that then I guess I just don't understand you, I can understand playing devils advocate and finding some way to make it sound like it's justified but actually believing it in your heart… that's fucked up
of course I'm looking at it in a real world view, since this thread is a lot about what's moral, I don't really look at it like this when I'm reading
@Havoc, just because somethings your job doesn't make it right
after world war 2 they investigated many of the people who were involved in the holocaust, they asked them how they could do such horrid things, and most of them replied i was ordered to or it was my job, now obviously this is completely different subject but I just wanted to point out, it's my job isn't a reason to go do what ever you want too
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Isn't this the million-dollar question…
Most of the villains in the poll qualify, but all for different reasons. But, I think Charlos and his family are the crowning example of every disreputable quality that makes up a good villain. Rich, spoiled villains aren't anything we haven't seen before, especially in One Piece, with Helmeppo and Wapol. But, they were mostly comical. I was pretty shocked at how far they took their greed from the moment they appeared.
Spandam is my runner-up. For someone as weak and incompetent as him, he's still pretty damn intimidating. I thought he'd be just another goofy villain when he first appeared. After finding out what he did to get Tom arrested, I knew I'd change my mind.
Nazi soldiers were just doing their job.
Justifying Akainu's actions by saying "it's his job" is a gross over simplification. At best Akainu is horrifyingly overzealous in his dishing out of absolute justice. That being said, the incident where he killed Ace in probably the only notable action that Akainu has done that was completely justified. Ace's death is the most horrible event that has happened to Luffy in the manga so far but all it tells us about Akainu is that he is willing to kill public wanted criminals who pose a danger to society. It mystifies me that "Akainu killed Ace" can be used as the central point in an argument against Akainu character. Akainu may be OP's most despicable villain but it has nothing to do with the fact he killed Ace.
The World Nobles and Spandam are truly despicable creatures. Their entire existence in life revolves around the suffering of others. And unlike Eneru who at least had a reason to believe he was a god (go ask someone what is invincible, omniscient, and can smite his enemies with lightning? and see what kind of answers you get) while the World Nobles and Spandam pathetically useless and have no reason to hold their respective senses of entitlement. Still it's one thing to be a spoiled delusional child burning ants for fun and another to choose to inflict suffering upon other sentient being knowing full well how horrible that suffering is. And that is just what Arlong did. The extent to which he experienced the consequences of slavery and racial subjugation is unclear, but as a fishman living on fishman island and as a follower if not a member of the sunny pirates he was well acquainted with the pain caused by those things. Knowing this he preceded to impose a similar situation upon innocent villagers half a world away from where fishmen were oppressed and he did it with a laugh and a smile. That's why I think Arlong is the most despicable.
^You wouldn't say that Crocodile is worse, given that he did something similarly horrifying in driving Alabasta (containing MILLIONS of people - not to say that the amount of casualties decides how bad something is, but consider the scope compared to Arlong's actions) into civil war, making them fight each other in the false belief that they were saving the country - and was actually enjoying it - despite not even having a real reason for it? Arlong is similar, but I kind of take the opposing viewpoint of yours; the fact that he had (maybe, but I'll go with that assumption for the sake of this discussion) been subjected to slavery rather makes his actions more understandable. I can see where you're coming from, but honestly I think it still seemed like more of a justification in that his mind had basically become twisted from what he had seen and/or experienced. With Crocodile, or at least what we know of him so far, there was no such element present, no event in the past that caused him to 'snap' and make him believe that what he was doing was actually right or justified (Arlong did genuinely believe Fishmen superior to human and deserving of ruling them). He essentially did it for world domination, with the ultimate goal being to uncover the ancient weapon, but just how he essentially enjoyed seeing people being driven into the terror that he had meticulously set up for them, for no real reason at all, makes me honestly find him even more despicable than Arlong. He even took the time to personally and repeatedly taunt Vivi about her helpnessness, finding it utterly amusing how she was forced to watch her beloved country and its people destroy each other over a fictional threat.
It really puzzles me that Crocodile has so few votes considering this. He literally had NO redeemable factors to him, the way he was as a villain (which is what this is about, right?). While yes, it is oversimplifying things to "justify" Akainu's actions with them being his job, there's definitely something to that still – he is overzealous, extreme, but he is not in any way malicious. To say that he is the most despicable when he was never once seen taking pleasure in killing people or carrying out his duties, but simply doing these things because he honestly believes in a larger, righteous cause… it baffles me. He has even been seen directly putting himself in harm's way to protect his fellow Marines during the war; compare that to many of OP's villains who couldn't give less of a damn whether their subordinates die or not, typically considering them not much more than tools to be used and discarded, and in some cases even go out of their way to kill them when they've fulfilled their purposes.
Why would that change anything? They're pirates as well and it's his job to get rid of them. There really isn't more to look at.
Of course people get angry if their favorite character gets killed and it's touching because Luffy got hurt in the process yet that doesn't make Akainu the most despicable villain to me as he had an actual reason why he killed Ace. Piracy in their world is a crime, we see it differently because we know there are nicer pirates out there as well but for those people knowing that the Roger lineage was eradicated was probably a great relief. In their eyes justice has prevailed.
And I'm not ridiculing people for being upset over Ace or the psychological pain inflicted on Luffy but I find it ludicrous to get so hung up over it as to call Akainu the worst villain there is when there are really a lot more assholeish creatures dwelling in the GL.
It's weird though. I definately wouldn't call Akainu the "worst villian" or "the most despicable" out of the list but I would say he's the most assholeish. I guess I see these terms differently.
However, I'm guess it depends on your perception of things. A villian tends to qualify as someone who opposes the main protagonist. It's possible to see Akainu's stance as more of a despicable thing then the other villians. I don't agree with it but I can understand it a tiny bit. He's a marine, and a high ranking one at that. Therefore, being an extremist who blows apart rookies with loving families for the sake of what HE believes is justice can be seen as more despicable than the actions of someone who doesn't abuse the power of the "good side" to justify what they're doing.
But like I said, my side of the view stays mostly where you are. It's all just opinion anyway so there's no reason to get hung up over it.
Quoted for truth, especially since people seem to have forgoten that ship load of civilians that the Akainu shot down in Ohara. That is a solid act of pure evil right there.
No it isn't, there was a chance that there was a researcher in that ship. The knowledge of the void century could potentially put the whole world into chaos and war. It was justified.
Heh, just wait until Oda gives Akainu a backstory involving the mother of all Freudian excuses that makes us see him in a whole different light.
…Nah, Oda's not that big on giving his villains sympathetic backstories, though it would be nice if he came off as a bit less strawman-ish.
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No it isn't, there was a chance that there was a researcher in that ship. The knowledge of the void century could potentially put the whole world into chaos and war. It was justified.
The government obviously doesn't give a crap about that. They went to that extreme because they were worried about their own asses and no one elses.
The government, yes. Akainu though?
"If even one of those scholars made it onto that ship,
All of the sacrifices we've made would be for nothing…!!"
I am not defending this action, but don't be so quick to conflate his motivation for doing it with the government's. And this is kind of interesting, because in a way Akainu is more extreme, the most extreme – the Gorousei never announced any such order, and they presumably ordered the escape ship in the first place -- but on the flip side he is doing it for a better cause, his justification is a more morally good one. They want to keep covering up their skeletons so that they can personally remain in power; he is doing it for the sake of the world, in his mind.
Makes for a pretty cool contrast. Which is worse?
Heh, just wait until Oda gives Akainu a backstory involving the mother of all Freudian excuses that makes us see him in a whole different light.
His dog Tiny was killed by pirates.
Didn't really respond to his opinion on Akainu, rather his notion that the action is justified because it was for the "good of the world".
However, I have to agree with you, Coru. To me, though, that just paints Akainu as more insane then anything.
The government, yes. Akainu though?
"If even one of those scholars made it onto that ship,
All of the sacrifices we've made would be for nothing…!!"I am not defending this action, but don't be so quick to conflate his motivation for doing it with the government's. And this is kind of interesting, because in a way Akainu is more extreme, the most extreme – the Gorousei never announced any such order, and they presumably ordered the escape ship in the first place -- but on the flip side he is doing it for a better cause, his justification is a more morally good one. They want to keep covering up their skeletons so that they can personally remain in power; he is doing it for the sake of the world, in his mind.
Makes for a pretty cool contrast. Which is worse?
This brings up a good point. People like to look at the Ohara incident as kind of an isolated thing where the WG went to the extreme to keep the void century a secret. While trying to keep that history hidden is wrong people don't realize that the WG may have done things like this before in the name of their justice. Allowing even a single scholar to escape could've ruined centuries worth of work and making the lives of soldiers and civilians who were sacrificed worthless depending on your perspective.
^That's true, if you interpret it like that. I view it as Akainu referring to the sacrifices they made that day - i.e. killing the scholars, burning a treasure of knowledge and a whole island - rather than the sacrifices they've made throughout history, but that is a good point.
Didn't really respond to his opinion on Akainu, rather his notion that the action is justified because it was for the "good of the world".
I see. I just followed the conversation a while back and apparently the guy you quoted disputed that it was "an act of pure evil" – which I would have to agree with, at least if we're defining evil as malicious. It's a good example of Akainu's mentality in any case, though.
Talking about all this REALLY makes me want to see Dragon put these guys in their places. Whether or not they considered it justified or not, the majority of the people on here, in the long run, wouldn't consider our own government taking such actions the same way. Is there any loophole around taking innocent people's lives?
A simple mind like Luffy wouldn't give a crap why they thought it was justified. He'd beat the crap out of anyone who killed someone he liked for the sake of keeping some secret.
I dunno. Am I wrong?
Well, in the it does come back to the question of "Would you kill a hundred people to save one million?" as far as it being "justified" goes when we're talking about the Marines' actions. Because truly, if the Ancient Weapons are as fearful as they have been implied to be - which I would argue is likely, given that Tom said that the world would be destroyed if they were to be unearthed - that may very well be a pertinent question. In that case, I could see someone arguing that it's justified, even should it be a real life scenario, though whether I'm prepared to do so myself… I'll not get into it any deeper, since I tend to lose these types of moral debates quite badly.
But anyway, that's just for the Marines. As far as the Gorousei goes… I think that they may be beyond redemption. While I am hesitant in saying that, given that they seemed to actually be genuinely sorry over having to do what they did to Ohara, their motivation seems to be solely to remain in power. This was made clear when Clover talked to them and they all but admitted that the Weapons are not actually the reason that they want to keep the Void Century hidden. It's apparently the existence and very ideals of that kingdom that they fear the most, that is the greatest threat to their hegemony (going to hazard a guess that they're the same ideals as Luffy/Roger/Dragon holds). So essentially, for them the question was not what I posed above, but "Would you kill thousands upon thousands to remain in unchallenged world dominance?"… and their answer was yes. So as far as those guys go, I suspect that no one will argue that their actions are justified.
As far as Luffy goes though… he is really not 'dumb' per se, he just doesn't think things through much. On the one hand you could see it as when he tried to kill Zoro at Whiskey Peak for cutting down the bounty hunters, not willing to listen to any explanations, but to be honest I rather see him, if someone that he trusts (like Robin) explains it to him and she advices him not to unravel the secrets for fear of the Weapons... I think he would not only listen, but understand and probably agree. If that is what the Strawhats decide to do, of course. However, I think - and you touched on this as well - that if they did it to a friend, or someone that he has affection for otherwise, he would very likely be unstoppable. For that reason, I suspect that Luffy's decision to participate in the final war, if it does happen as most people believe at the moment, will really not be instigated by his learning of the history and ideals and existence of that kingdom - what the government so desperately wants to keep hidden - but by their actions in keeping it hidden causes harm or danger to his friends. That, I think, would be his reason for doing it.
tl;dr, I know. I got a bit carried away.
Well, in the it does come back to the question of "Would you kill a hundred people to save one million?" as far as it being "justified" goes when we're talking about the Marines' actions. Because truly, if the Ancient Weapons are as fearful as they have been implied to be - which I would argue is likely, given that Tom said that the world would be destroyed if they were to be unearthed - that may very well be a pertinent question. In that case, I could see someone arguing that it's justified, even should it be a real life scenario, though whether I'm prepared to do so myself… I'll not get into it any deeper, since I tend to lose these types of moral debates quite badly.
But anyway, that's just for the Marines. As far as the Gorousei goes… I think that they may be beyond redemption. While I am hesitant in saying that, given that they seemed to actually be genuinely sorry over having to do what they did to Ohara, their motivation seems to be solely to remain in power. This was made clear when Clover talked to them and they all but admitted that the Weapons are not actually the reason that they want to keep the Void Century hidden. It's apparently the existence and very ideals of that kingdom that they fear the most, that is the greatest threat to their hegemony (going to hazard a guess that they're the same ideals as Luffy/Roger/Dragon holds). So essentially, for them the question was not what I posed above, but "Would you kill thousands upon thousands to remain in unchallenged world dominance?"… and their answer was yes. So as far as those guys go, I suspect that no one will argue that their actions are justified.
As far as Luffy goes though… he is really not 'dumb' per se, he just doesn't think things through much. On the one hand you could see it as when he tried to kill Zoro at Whiskey Peak for cutting down the bounty hunters, not willing to listen to any explanations, but to be honest I rather see him, if someone that he trusts (like Robin) explains it to him and she advices him not to unravel the secrets for fear of the Weapons... I think he would not only listen, but understand and probably agree. If that is what the Strawhats decide to do, of course. However, I think - and you touched on this as well - that if they did it to a friend, or someone that he has affection for otherwise, he would very likely be unstoppable. For that reason, I suspect that Luffy's decision to participate in the final war, if it does happen as most people believe at the moment, will really not be instigated by his learning of the history and ideals and existence of that kingdom - what the government so desperately wants to keep hidden - but by their actions in keeping it hidden causes harm or danger to his friends. That, I think, would be his reason for doing it.
tl;dr, I know. I got a bit carried away.
Yes, just a tinsy bit carried away. 
Can't disagree with anything you've said too. Though, Luffy seems like the one to react to such situations in certain ways simply because of the caution the people he likes puts upon him. For example, Hatchan told Luffy not to cross the Celestial Dragons and he had to do everything he could to restrain himself when he watched them shoot a heavily wounded man. And this person was someone he didn't even know. Hatchan explaining it to him (if he did fully, I can't recall) probably wouldn't have curved his mind to agreeing with it at all. Like you've stated though, the gloves come off either way when his friends get hurt, which led to the whole punching Charlos/auction house brawl/kizaru, sentomaru, and pacifista destruction.
Well, in the situation with the Tenryuubito their actions didn't have any sort of justification behind them at all. Hatchan basically told him the truth, from what I recall – they consider themselves above other people, and thus treat them like trash -- and of course Luffy was appalled by that, even more so at seeing it. But I think the WG/history situation would be a bit different. Luffy wouldn't be incapable of understanding the concept of keeping it hidden for the sake of the world, even making certain sacrifices, if he was willing to listen - like if, say, Robin wanted him to hear and understand it. And I can possibly see him agreeing, because in this scenario it isn't merely because they consider other people to be worthless, but the opposite; because they want to maintain stability and save the lives that would be lost if one of the weapons should ever be found and activated. I do feel as if this is a possibility, given Rayleigh's "you may find a different answer than we did" line, although with Dragon almost certainly feeling the opposite way I wouldn't bet on it. People do ponder the possibility of Dragon actually being an antagonist due to conflicting beliefs in this way… but I dunno. It just doesn't feel very... One Piece for that to happen, IMO.
...but in any case, as you said, if a friend gets hurt then the gloves come right off. And the other SHs naturally feel the same way, which was shown in how Sanji/Franky/Usopp reacted to Lucci explaining why Robin "had" to die on the train to Enies Lobby.
Well, in the situation with the Tenryuubito their actions didn't have any sort of justification behind them at all. Hatchan basically told him the truth, from what I recall – they consider themselves above other people, and thus treat them like trash -- and of course Luffy was appalled by that, even more so at seeing it. But I think the WG/history situation would be a bit different. Luffy wouldn't be incapable of understanding the concept of keeping it hidden for the sake of the world, even making certain sacrifices, if he was willing to listen - like if, say, Robin wanted him to hear and understand it. And I can possibly see him agreeing, because in this scenario it isn't merely because they consider other people to be worthless, but the opposite; because they want to maintain stability and save the lives that would be lost if one of the weapons should ever be found and activated. I do feel as if this is a possibility, given Rayleigh's "you may find a different answer than we did" line, although with Dragon almost certainly feeling the opposite way I wouldn't bet on it. People do ponder the possibility of Dragon actually being an antagonist due to conflicting beliefs in this way… but I dunno. It just doesn't feel very... One Piece for that to happen, IMO.
...but in any case, as you said, if a friend gets hurt then the gloves come right off. And the other SHs naturally feel the same way, which was shown in how Sanji/Franky/Usopp reacted to Lucci explaining why Robin "had" to die on the train to Enies Lobby.
I'd be upset if Dragon turned out to be an antagonist in anyway. Considering what we've seen of the government so far, he's a person of extremely high regard in my eyes. Besides which, it wouldn't make sense considering Kuma and Ivankov's actions. Ivankov throwing his original plan out the window just to make sure Dragon's son was safe. Kuma putting his Shichibukai status at risk so that Luffy's crew could escape. Seems more like something Kishimoto would pull if he had One Piece. "What a twist!" and all that…
Anyway, on the subject at hand, the Celestial Dragons are pretty much being allowed to do what they do because of the government right? Was it stated or hinted at that the government didn't know about their actions? I seem to recall a seen where some clown looking person outside the auction house said that the words "human trafficing" never reached the ears of the higher ups... or something like that. Memory is a bit fuzzy. Either way, if it's true that they are aware of it, I'd like to hear their excuse for allowing such a thing.
Yeah, I'm in agreement with you there. Dragon seems to me as if he's firmly etched into the story as a good person. His dramatic-as-hell introduction with that awesome Roger quote makes me feel that he's going to be insaaaanely important later on, when he enters the story for real.
That is indeed true, and a point against the government that I honestly kind of forgot. They are allowing them to do all that stuff, merely because of their ancestry, and as for the human trafficking I'm certain that at least Sengoku knows of it, because one of his subordinates said "We've also lost contact with the guards at the human shop… er, "employment stability office" which ties into Doflamingo's "business at the island" from so many chapters back. I'm guessing that they allow the slave shop because of the Tenryuubito, as well, since they like shopping there. So yeah. Dragon's most likely going to tear these aspects, at least, of the government to shreds before this series is done; anything else would honestly feel unsatisfactory.
Oh yes. I forgot about that soldier's slip up when he spoke with Sengoku. So I'm convinced now. I'm smiling now too. The thought of Dragon ripping this government a new one is making me shiver with excitement. I do so hope to see it happen.
Heh, nice talk. I like you.
The only real antagonists I've ever seemed to detest during an elongated period of time were Bellamy and the Tenryuubito. Spandam was somewhat 'sickening' as well, although as the arc passed by I quickly forgot about him.
So in that case, my vote goes for the Tenryuubito. In all honesty, I believe the rest of the antagonists are actually quite likable, especially the likes of Enel or Crocodile.
That is, unless we're talking about the quality of their character in general…
"Most despicable" is a subjective view, so I'm going to assume the poll and discussion is strictly subjective opinion on how sickening a villain is, and not a futile pointless argument on who is "more evil".
That being said, my candidate would be Spandam and Tenruubito.
Individually, Spandam had much more panel time than say, Charlos, and thus had much more opportunity to disgust us with his presence.
However, as a group? Hands-down Tenryuubito.
I mean, no contest here. They're literally the cause of more grief, misery, and injustice in the OP world than every single other villains and antagonists we've been introduced to so far combined.
Itt: We justify war crimes, fascism, and police state mentality all in the name of animez characterz we like.
Meanwhile: Other members of this forum are living through actual revolutions against this exact shit in the real world.
Hey man, human rights are like dangerous and ..like soldiers lives man…and like chaos....you need guys like Mubarak I mean Akainu around to like...keep the peace.
(is a fat spoiled anime bitch in a first world democracy that would be pissing their pants if they were patriated to a real world police state)
Tenryuubito are the most despicable by far. The only, and I mean the only excuse I can think of to try and justify individuals from the Tenryuubito at this point is by saying they're a product of their environment, and with all of the crap they've done, that excuse wouldn't work with me. Especially the older generation who at some point in their lives I figured would've at least once go "Hm? I wonder if what I'm doing is wrong…..Oh well." Goes off to murder bystanders for looking at them weird
the fact that people think killing people because they disagree with what the top brass tells them is justified completely blows my mind
I'd imagine that if they disagreed back at the base outside of combat they wouldn't face anything harder than the brig or expulsion.
But when it comes to disruptive and insubordinate behaivour in active combat it gets alot stricter because the stakes are higher. Especialy considering that Coby is essential fighting in an elite unit
the only time I would feel justified in killing a person is if there a murder, rapist or in some cases an accomplice to the other
I'd imagine that is how Akainu sees things. Except turned up to eleven. Wouldn't suprise me if he from his point of view feels that he has never commited a non-justified killing.
and coby was trying to show a different point of view on the war, I mean they were leaving there men to die who could survive, it's not like the WG isn't corrupt, even smoker and tashigi commented then how fucked up the marines were acting, what he did was voice his opinion about killing people who had no will to fight and therefore causing deaths of your own teammates
Coby did have good intentions, but in a bloody war where thousands of career soldiers who came willingly and knowingly to do battle have already died, and thousands more are willingly battling to death for their goal he was willing to give up a complete victory against their biggest threat just like that. A victory which we can assume would save plenty of marine lives down the line. (I mean for instance Whitebeard did kill what 20 ships of marines on his way down to Marineford) just to save a few lives for the moment. Seems a little idealistic, and i just feel that Coby as the green horn he was, was not at all prepared for the realities of war.
and if you believe he should be killed for that then I guess I just don't understand you, I can understand playing devils advocate and finding some way to make it sound like it's justified but actually believing it in your heart… that's fucked up
In some part it's taking on and trying to understand the opposite side out of pure fascination. But i can see validity to both sides and generaly fall somewhere in betwenn.
Wolfwood has got the right idea on the possible fatalities. It would be much better for the Marines in the long run to eliminate all the pirates now than to wait for them to attack more Marines later when those Marines won't have such an advantage.
However, you'd never see a real world military act like the Marines did at Marineford. Their main base was destroyed and they had taken massive casualties, both in dead and injured. With the enemy in retreat and your main mission objective (kill Ace and Whitebeard) completed, a real world military force would fortify their position and tend to their wounded.
And take care of the guy who is actively trying to sink the entire island.
No it isn't, there was a chance that there was a researcher in that ship. The knowledge of the void century could potentially put the whole world into chaos and war. It was justified.
This is how I feel - whatever happened in the blank century has to paint the world government in a bad light. I don't know what it is. But what could possibly have happened that actually makes them think it's justifiable to murder people to cover it up? And if it was really something terrible, where they "did what had to be done" to unite the world, why do they deserve to get away with it and paint themselves as a paragon of morality while arbitrarily killing people who get in their way just because they have to "protect the stability of the world"?
I just want to hear this - what could actually have happened 800 years ago that is worth sacrificing innocent lives for and that doesn't make the World Government look evil?
This brings up a good point. People like to look at the Ohara incident as kind of an isolated thing where the WG went to the extreme to keep the void century a secret. While trying to keep that history hidden is wrong people don't realize that the WG may have done things like this before in the name of their justice. Allowing even a single scholar to escape could've ruined centuries worth of work and making the lives of soldiers and civilians who were sacrificed worthless depending on your perspective.
That kind of makes things worse, because then you have to wonder if the damage done by the government covering up the history is worse than whatever will happen when it's revealed.
@Sir:
I just want to hear this - what could actually have happened 800 years ago that is worth sacrificing innocent lives for and that doesn't make the World Government look evil?
That kind of makes things worse, because then you have to wonder if the damage done by the government covering up the history is worse than whatever will happen when it's revealed.
http://apforums.net/showthread.php?t=9604
**World Government Corruption? topic
All your Questions will be answered… i hope.
its a really interesting topic btw. take a peak
Edit: my mistake i see that you are well aware of this thread... (i saw some of your posts).**
@Sir:
This is how I feel - whatever happened in the blank century has to paint the world government in a bad light. I don't know what it is. But what could possibly have happened that actually makes them think it's justifiable to murder people to cover it up? And if it was really something terrible, where they "did what had to be done" to unite the world, why do they deserve to get away with it and paint themselves as a paragon of morality while arbitrarily killing people who get in their way just because they have to "protect the stability of the world"?
I just want to hear this - what could actually have happened 800 years ago that is worth sacrificing innocent lives for and that doesn't make the World Government look evil?
That kind of makes things worse, because then you have to wonder if the damage done by the government covering up the history is worse than whatever will happen when it's revealed.
Why are people even remotely entertaining the idea that Oda doesn't intend to make the government look bad with the Blank History?
Oh right because some of them are moronic fanboys.
Heh, just to clarify I never said Akainu was in any sort of way a good guy. He's executing his ''absolute justice'' yes, however, this is in no way what anyone here understands as real justice. If you think of him as most despicable because of the Ohara incident that's perfectly acceptable. What I was trying to say is you should try to see the difference between Ohara and Ace's death. The first one was cleary overstepping boundaries and shitting on morals, the second one is debatable, as we've seen much worse actions from others without any justification whatsoever (like Tenryuubito killing people just because).
Yeah, it always seemed rather obvious after that last bit of Clover's conversation with the Gorousei.
_Clover: The Ancient Weapons are truly a threat to the world!!! BUT!!
More importantly, the existence and ideals of this country,
that threaten to be brought to light again are the GREATEST threat to your World Government!!!
I will not know what threat this is until it is revealed,
but the name of this once-mighty kingdom,
which holds all the keys, was–
Phone: Kill him."_
It's not even the Weapons that the government really fears, as some people seem to think. Ohara was not actually not scorched to protect the world from those weapons, but rather to keep the government's really big skeletons in the closet. It's honestly hard to understand how people can attempt to justify the event when Oda portrayed it like this and made clear that the weapons weren't actually the reason for it. We even saw that the Gorousei were themselves willing to revive one of these weapons in Spandam's little flashback, if I'm not misremembering.
Heh, just to clarify I never said Akainu was in any sort of way a good guy. He's executing his ''absolute justice'' yes, however, this is in no way what anyone here understands as real justice. If you think of him as most despicable because of the Ohara incident that's perfectly acceptable. What I was trying to say is you should try to see the difference between Ohara and Ace's death. The first one was cleary overstepping boundaries and shitting on morals, the second one is debatable, as we've seen much worse actions from others without any justification whatsoever (like Tenryuubito killing people just because).
Akainu is all about Ohara, and if anyone here is so clueless to not pick up on Oda's obvious characterization of him by having a civilian massacre be his introduction (or enough of a worthless piece of shit to make apologetics for a civilian massacre) than they're completely hopeless.
The people mentioning Enel seem to be forgetting that he destroyed his entire homeland of Bilka. That means he killed an entire island but not only did this kill thousands of people, he was born and raised on this island too.
So he killed people he knew all his life and then went to another sky island and took control over the island. He used his power to make the people of Skypeia live in fear for years only to attempt to destroy it and thousands of more people.
He showed no remorse all throughout any of this and would have undoubtedly tried it again if Luffy had not have been there. Seems pretty despicable to me
Am I the only one who approves of Akainu destroying that ship? They were all dicks after all…
@Mr.:
Am I the only one who approves of Akainu destroying that ship? They were all dicks after all…
So much is morally wrong with this statement that it's not even worth arguing with since I can't even think of any reason for this other than it being trolling.
Okay. Two things.
1. Saying everyone were dicks is a massive generalization(and there were babies and kids).
2. Being dicks isn't a justification to be brutally murdered despite what horror movies try to make people believe.
@HiroVoid:
So much is morally wrong with this statement that it's not even worth arguing with since I can't even think of any reason for this other than it being trolling.
Okay. Two things.
1. Saying everyone were dicks is a massive generalization(and there were babies and kids).
2. Being dicks isn't a justification to be brutally murdered despite what horror movies try to make people believe.
That's a matter of moral objectivity. Akainu was being thorough. You can't fault him for that.
@Mr.:
Am I the only one who approves of Akainu destroying that ship? They were all dicks after all…
They're just ignorant, prejudiced, and brainwashed, much like the rest of the world.
@Mr.:
That's a matter of moral objectivity. Akainu was being thorough. You can't fault him for that.
And they couldn't have just questioned everyone on board to see what everyone's association with the poneglyphs were? There's usually more than one way to solve a problem. Akainu's way was just much more direct and uncalled for.
@HiroVoid:
And they couldn't have just questioned everyone on board to see what everyone's association with the poneglyphs were? There's usually more than one way to solve a problem. Akainu's way was just much more direct and uncalled for.
You know that's not going to 100% prevent a scholar from slipping through their fingers. A person would have just played dumb, avoided questioning, or hid.
Frankly, Baroque Works earns points for raw stupidity.
It's an overly complicated system; it doesn't achieve its goals in an efficient manner, and it doesn't run on trust
I'd say say arlong. he enslaved a town. controlled nami for years and shot her mother in front of her.
Sakazuki is a close second with his crazy justice tyraids and killing ace in front of luffy
Akainu by far… Followed by Arlong an Croc
@JERK:
Akainu is all about Ohara, and if anyone here is so clueless to not pick up on Oda's obvious characterization of him by having a civilian massacre be his introduction (or enough of a worthless piece of shit to make apologetics for a civilian massacre) than they're completely hopeless.
That's what I'd like to think too. However I've seen enough people calling him the worst because he killed Ace without taking anything about Ohara into consideration. He is the worst yes, but not for that sole reason that he killed Luffy's brother.
Perhaps I've been to too many bullshit forums. Especially those who are not OP-oriented have hopeless fanboys and fangirls who started some sort of personal crusade against Akainu and certainly not because he was so cruel to Ohara's citizens.
Think of how many people Croc caused to die and what he almost did to Alabasta then think about the one boat Akainu destroyed.
There is a big difference.
Atrocities done by those in power against their own people and atrocities done by known criminals are not measured with the same stick, bud.
That's why Akainu, Tenryuubito, and Spandem are especially notable.
Croc has always been, despite being a warlord, a pirate. And boss of a criminal organization. It's to be expected.
Think of how many people Croc caused to die and what he almost did to Alabasta then think about the one boat Akainu destroyed.
There is a big difference.
Well Akainu is directly responsible for killing those people because he gave the order. Crocodile was able to manipulate the rebels and royal guards into killing each other and it's their fault for not seeing through it because of their frustration.
