My bad if this isn't the place to ask this.
I'm just wondering. Is there going to be an issue this week? I think I read somewhere there was going to be a D.Grayman special, and all other series would be delayed a week.
My bad if this isn't the place to ask this.
I'm just wondering. Is there going to be an issue this week? I think I read somewhere there was going to be a D.Grayman special, and all other series would be delayed a week.
My bad if this isn't the place to ask this.
I'm just wondering. Is there going to be an issue this week? I think I read somewhere there was going to be a D.Grayman special, and all other series would be delayed a week.
There is no WSJ release this week, D Grayman will be published in Akamaru Jump from now on.
hmm yesterday i noticed this on chapter 501:
garp was saying this: nah i´ll handle this… don´t you go telling anyone else, Sengoku included!
on this page.... http://media.onemanga.com/mangas/00000002/000046401/02.jpg
well you know, after beatin up by Ki Zaru and the others, kumma appeard and rescued the Strawhats.. and he put them on island´s where they can train…
well its just my point, but oda made it clear,that garp, sendet kuma there.. and he was talkin with rayleigh too.
he was probably sayin something like that: Trust me, Garp has send me here, he is Ruffys Grandfather and so on...
what you think about it? :)
That could be possible considering Kuma seem to know Dragon and have spare Luffy quite a few time now.
That's where you and me disagree, I think that generaly speaking they do care about their populace and arent these cold contemptous overlord's who reveal in the suffering of the subjects.. But like all big goverments they work according to the idea that to reach certain goals or safe guard their union there are acceptable losses. I mean you didnt see them cackeling with joy when Ohara burned, it was more like -Allright you leave me no choice, sad it has to come to this.
…
They ordered the obliteration of AN ENTIRE ISLAND for the crimes of a select few people. A whole island full of innocent people died that day, and we know full well it wasn't done because the World Government were worried about the ancient weapons. They were worried about the "Void History". The World Government was actively searching for any reason to destroy Ohara with a Buster Call, because they were afraid of the truth of the "Void History" coming to light. It wasn't about some noble goal of protecting all the innocent people of the world from a dangerous weapon. It was about them keeping their dirty secret in the dark. They were using the guise of keeping people safe to forward their own agenda... Sounds alot like real life government. Don'cha think?
That really doesn't sound like a caring government to me. It sounds like a government that's scared to death of losing it's power of the populace.
Hey, hey, will there be a chapter this week :silly: ?
I want to know what was so important in the lost history that the government covered it up. Stupid Luffy had to stop Reighley from saying it though :getlost: .
@Kairouseki:
Hey, hey, will there be a chapter this week :silly: ?
I want to know what was so important in the lost history that the government covered it up. Stupid Luffy had to stop Reighley from saying it though :getlost: .
I believe that was Robin who stopped him.
hmm yesterday i noticed this on chapter 501:
garp was saying this: nah i´ll handle this… don´t you go telling anyone else, Sengoku included!
on this page.... http://media.onemanga.com/mangas/00000002/000046401/02.jpg
well you know, after beatin up by Ki Zaru and the others, kumma appeard and rescued the Strawhats.. and he put them on island´s where they can train…
well its just my point, but oda made it clear,that garp, sendet kuma there.. and he was talkin with rayleigh too.
he was probably sayin something like that: Trust me, Garp has send me here, he is Ruffys Grandfather and so on...
what you think about it? :)
How does Garp handling Ray by himself = Kuma pawing the SH crew?
Even if Garp sent Kuma how does that have anything to do with Ray? I always felt Kuma begged for mercy and asked Ray to trust him since he isn't going to hurt them.
The whole Ray situation has not been handled…. yet.
@Zik:
How does Garp handling Ray by himself = Kuma pawing the SH crew?
Even if Garp sent Kuma how does that have anything to do with Ray? I always felt Kuma begged for mercy and asked Ray to trust him since he isn't going to hurt them.
The whole Ray situation has not been handled…. yet.
really i thought he was just telling him he looked damn fine in that coat
I believe that was Robin who stopped him.
Wasn't Reiyleig (damn his name) going to spill everything and Luffy got up and screamed at him to stop? Maybe Reighley asked Robin if she still wanted to know but Luffy stopped him originally. Actually now that I think about it Usopp was prodding on Reighley and Luffy yelled at Usopp.
I agree with the assumption that garp sent kuma to save them
You guys have bad memories. Ray said he knew everything. Usopp then said to Robin this is her chance to learn everything. Ray said I could tell you now if you asked but on her own she might come to a different conclusion than what they did. So she decided not to ask.
Then Usopp asked about OP and Luffy cut him off screaming at him claiming not to go on such a boring adventure.
@xLionheartx:
I agree with the assumption that garp sent kuma to save them
Seriously tell me how you came to this conclusion. What does Garp saying he will handle Rayleigh have to do with Kuma saving the SHs.
At that time(Before Luffy does anything) how would Garp even know the SHs needed saving?
Yes, my memory is horrible. Sorry 'bout that. Well, then I blame Robin AND Luffy.
…They ordered the obliteration of AN ENTIRE ISLAND for the crimes of a select few people.
They executed all the criminals and destroyed the forbidden materials yes.
And those who werent guilty were sent of on a ship, mind you Akainu went ape shit and blew em up. But that wasnt something he was ordered to do. Even the actual execution seemed like something that the elder stars considered to be regretful but neccesary.
A whole island full of innocent people died that day.
Twasnt an island of innocent, it was an island mainly inhabited with archelogists who knew exactly what they were doing. Even if you think its a piece of shit law it doesnt mean that the law enforcement isnt going to dole out the punishment that's prescribed for it if you break it.
And like i said before, those who werent in the know werent supposed to be killed.
It wasn't about some noble goal of protecting all the innocent people of the world from a dangerous weapon. It was about them keeping their dirty secret in the dark. They were using the guise of keeping people safe to forward their own agenda… Sounds alot like real life government. Don'cha think?
Never said it was noble in anyway, but self preservation is probably the first thing any group considers. You threathen them they strike back. Its the simplest concept in the world, there is no goverment who would stand idly by as someone amassed enough power enough to crush them.
That really doesn't sound like a caring government to me. It sounds like a government that's scared to death of losing it's power of the populace.
Sometimes going to extreme measures doesnt mean that it generaly cant be working for the good of the general population. That the world is in a somewhat peaceful state should indicate that the world goverment isnt fucking over everyone at each turn.
They executed all the criminals and destroyed the forbidden materials yes.
And those who werent guilty were sent of on a ship, mind you Akainu went ape shit and blew em up. But that wasnt something he was ordered to do. Even the actual execution seemed like something that the elder stars considered to be regretful but neccesary.
Twasnt an island of innocent, it was an island mainly inhabited with archelogists who knew exactly what they were doing. Even if you think its a piece of shit law it doesnt mean that the law enforcement isnt going to dole out the punishment that's prescribed for it if you break it.
And like i said before, those who werent in the know werent supposed to be killed.
Never said it was noble in anyway, but self preservation is probably the first thing any group considers. You threathen them they strike back. Its the simplest concept in the world, there is no goverment who would stand idly by as someone amassed enough power enough to crush them.
Sometimes going to extreme measures doesnt mean that it generaly cant be working for the good of the general population. That the world is in a somewhat peaceful state should indicate that the world goverment isnt fucking over everyone at each turn.
Wolfwood this is very much like your down playing of the WG's search to slaughter baby Ace, you do realize a buster call is an indiscriminate attack, so inherently says fuck all innocents right? Plus I don't see how you can even attempt to legitimately defend the WG especially considering that once the details of the void century comes out they will inevitably be portrayed as even more despicable.
The only "general good" they were aiming for is the general good of saving their own asses.
@Zik:
You guys have bad memories. Ray said he knew everything. Usopp then said to Robin this is her chance to learn everything. Ray said I could tell you now if you asked but on her own she might come to a different conclusion than what they did. So she decided not to ask.
Then Usopp asked about OP and Luffy cut him off screaming at him claiming not to go on such a boring adventure.
Wait, why do I have a bad memory? For the record, the OP thing came up before the history thing. I remember those chapters quite clearly.
Wait, why do I have a bad memory? For the record, the OP thing came up before the history thing. I remember those chapters quite clearly.
Um…Zik is correct. I checked chapter 507 to be sure.
Yeah, ok I made myself out to look like an ass there. At least the first thing I said was accurate, I just had the order mixed up and made myself wrong with that last statement.
Wolfwood this is very much like your down playing of the WG's search to slaughter baby Ace, you do realize a buster call is an indiscriminate attack, so inherently says fuck all innocents right
They went to Ohara first, got the innocent out on an escape ship. Detained the prisoners and interogated them, secured evidence. And after that it became clear they were guilty they bombed them. Doesnt seem that indiscriminate to me.
Its all pretty done by the book, if Akainu hadnt snapped and blown up the innocent i wouldnt have had a single problem with the Ohara bombing.
Plus I don't see how you can even attempt to legitimately defend the WG especially considering that once the details of the void century comes out they will inevitably be portrayed as even more despicable.
Not really on anyside, usualy just end up on this side in argument cause everyone else is determined that the world goverment is the second incarnation of satan. Who only exist to bring people pain, while i belive that theyre more complex than that, especialy the elder star.
The only "general good" they were aiming for is the general good of saving their own asses.
See that's pretty much what i react against, the notion that they can do no good, that theyre the very definition of evil.
I dont think the elder stars will develop into some lame one note "muhahah lets take over the world and dance around in the sweet tears of the innocent" antagonists. Theyre probably going to end up more complex than people give em credit for.
It's simple, he knew the situation at had ie
Luffy punched a tenryuubito
Kizaru was on the way to either annihilate luffy and his crew or capture them
Luffy and his crew wernt strong enough yet to deal with a threat of kizarus level
Luffy being sent to a place were damn near everyone could use haki was no coincidence
Garp knows Shanks is fond of luffy and at some point he talked to reh(reh being shanks mentor obviously he would talk to him at some point)
Garp knowing shanks lost his arm due to protecting his grandson can be garunteed to have spoken to reh about it when he saw him so
Garp thinking this, thinks that reh at least knows of luffy and knowing how reh, is knows that reh would have at least made contact with them and will definatly be in the mix of things
So he sent kuma to get them off the archipalago before his other grandson was either captured or outright killed. By kizaru
Either locate reigleh who most likely will either have spoken to and know where they are at, or is currently in the immediate vicinity of his grandson and crew
he expected luffy to learn about haki there (probably train for a while and bulk up seeing as he has finally attracted too much attention from the wg)
Kuma came in the nic of time by sheer coincidense had reh not been there he woulda been too late and most likely he explained it to reh as garp sent me he's luffies grand pappy trust me
Reh knowing garp like roger dose went along with it and didn't interfere with kuma
So much reaching and speculation in that post it's ridiculous.
How the fuck would Garp assume Rayleigh would meet Luffy? I mean if you're basing that off both being pirates only 5 SNs saw Ray. That's a bunch of malarkey.
It's not simple at all, it's a lot of reaching and guessing is what it is
EDIT
Actually after re-reading your post and catching the Luffy training his haki bullshit I feel sad for being caught in a troll's trap and not realizing it beforehand.
Who the fuck is Reh?
They went to Ohara first, got the innocent out on an escape ship. Detained the prisoners and interogated them, secured evidence. And after that it became clear they were guilty they bombed them. Doesnt seem that indiscriminate to me.
Its all pretty done by the book, if Akainu hadnt snapped and blown up the innocent i wouldnt have had a single problem with the Ohara bombing.
Not really on anyside, usualy just end up on this side in argument cause everyone else is determined that the world goverment is the second incarnation of satan. Who only exist to bring people pain, while i belive that theyre more complex than that, especialy the elder star.
See that's pretty much what i react against, the notion that they can do no good, that theyre the very definition of evil.
I dont think the elder stars will develop into some lame one note "muhahah lets take over the world and dance around in the sweet tears of the innocent" antagonists. Theyre probably going to end up more complex than people give em credit for.
The rounding up of the innocence was nothing but a facade in order to gather up potential escapee scholars and wipe them out, your argument of Akainu going ape shit is based of your belief that the gorousei ever had any intention to let anyone live on that island after the buster call which is contrary to everything we've learned about absolute justice which in and of itself seems to be a concept of nothing more than to tie up every lose end, what Akainu did was an implied order by the gorousei once the buster call was issued, the only ones who would leave that island was Spandine, his men and the buster call fleet. Now of course the WG won't be the muhaha take over the world type however you're forgetting that they basically already have world domination they are the "world govt" after all. The bs facade factor of the gorousei was pretty well pointed out by Clover as well I might add.
You can argue good intentions if you like but in the warped minds of the nazis I'm sure they had good intentions as well, but that doesn't change the fact that they and the WG are a tyrannical govt with dystopian, big brother like tendencies. All the WG wants is to stay in power and safeguard the interests of the Tennryuubito, period.
It's simple, he knew the situation at had ie
Luffy punched a tenryuubito
Kizaru was on the way to either annihilate luffy and his crew or capture them
Luffy and his crew wernt strong enough yet to deal with a threat of kizarus level
Luffy being sent to a place were damn near everyone could use haki was no coincidence
Garp knows Shanks is fond of luffy and at some point he talked to reh(reh being shanks mentor obviously he would talk to him at some point)
Garp knowing shanks lost his arm due to protecting his grandson can be garunteed to have spoken to reh about it when he saw him so
Garp thinking this, thinks that reh at least knows of luffy and knowing how reh, is knows that reh would have at least made contact with them and will definatly be in the mix of thingsSo he sent kuma to get them off the archipalago before his other grandson was either captured or outright killed. By kizaru
Either locate reigleh who most likely will either have spoken to and know where they are at, or is currently in the immediate vicinity of his grandson and crewhe expected luffy to learn about haki there (probably train for a while and bulk up seeing as he has finally attracted too much attention from the wg)
Kuma came in the nic of time by sheer coincidense had reh not been there he woulda been too late and most likely he explained it to reh as garp sent me he's luffies grand pappy trust meReh knowing garp like roger dose went along with it and didn't interfere with kuma
That's not simple.
Like at all.
Not really on anyside, usualy just end up on this side in argument cause everyone else is determined that the world goverment is the second incarnation of satan. Who only exist to bring people pain, while i belive that theyre more complex than that, especialy the elder star.
See that's pretty much what i react against, the notion that they can do no good, that theyre the very definition of evil.
I dont think the elder stars will develop into some lame one note "muhahah lets take over the world and dance around in the sweet tears of the innocent" antagonists. Theyre probably going to end up more complex than people give em credit for.
Troll trap? It's all speculation idiot there are never any direct (I did this because) type facts put into things of this nature
You base your conclusion off of 1+1=2 observations and draw your own conclusions off of the hints and forshadows presented also by knowing how the characters think and understanding and interpreting their body language and actions
You damn child
Troll trap? It's all speculation idiot there arenever any direct (I did this because) type facts put into things of this nature
You base your conclusion off of 1+1=2 observations and draw your own conclusions off of the hints and forshadows presented
You damn child
Getting defensive, your a funny little fool.
Now who the fuck is Reh?
The rounding up of the innocence was nothing but a facade in order to gather up potential escapee scholars and wipe them out, your argument of Akainu going ape shit is based of your belief that the gorousei ever had any intention to let anyone live on that island after the buster call which is contrary to everything we've learned about absolute justice which in and of itself seems to be a concept of nothing more than of tie up every lose end, what Akainu did was an implied order by the gorousei once the buster call was issued, the only ones who would leave that island was Spandine, his men and the buster call fleet.
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/395/09/
Look the the elder star down in the corner, man he really must be going in for the role. He really fooled me into thinking that this wasnt really how they wanted it to go down.
I mean the notion that all they did was some sort of elaborate farce is just strange, for whom would they act that play out if they planned on killing everyone all along?
Now of course the WG won't be the muhaha take over the world type however you're forgetting that they basically already have world domination they are the "world govt" after all.
I think well be seeing people who genuinly belive in what theyre doing, and have had to take some hard decisions in their life. Not all of them were things to be proud of. Would be the best way to show its not all black and white. Its not this guy is a good guy and this is a bad one(note the black top hat and dastardly mustache)
You can argue good intentions if you like but in the warped minds of the nazis I'm sure they had good intentions as well, but that doesn't change the fact that they and the WG are a tyrannical govt with dystopian, big brother like tendencies. All the WG wants is to stay in power and safeguard the interests of the Tennryuubito, period.
Who's arguing good intentions, what im arguing is more like that there is no clear cut good or bad, sometimes a good person will do bad things. Or vice-versa, the world goverment isnt just a group of people sitting in a room talking about what act of unmitigated evil shall be done today.
Oh and is Vanessa mocking me or agreeing, in context of the movie is should be some what insincere but i really cant tell.
I'm agreeing with you. I couldn't find a more positive clapping one i.e. I'm too lazy to look.
Awesome, Well suck it everyone who doesnt have a mod on your side.
Imma of to bed.
@Fiasco.:
Getting defensive, your a funny little fool.
Now who the fuck is Reh?
rehleigh LOL I hate trying to spell his name out
No chapter this week?
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/395/09/
Look the the elder star down in the corner, man he really must be going in for the role. He really fooled me into thinking that this wasnt really how they wanted it to go down.
I mean the notion that all they did was some sort of elaborate farce is just strange, for whom would they act that play out if they planned on killing everyone all along?
I think well be seeing people who genuinly belive in what theyre doing, and have had to take some hard decisions in their life. Not all of them were things to be proud of. Would be the best way to show its not all black and white. Its not this guy is a good guy and this is a bad one(note the black top hat and dastardly mustache)
Who's arguing good intentions, what im arguing is more like that there is no clear cut good or bad, sometimes a good person will do bad things. Or vice-versa, the world goverment isnt just a group of people sitting in a room talking about what act of unmitigated evil shall be done today.
Oh and is Vanessa mocking me or agreeing, in context of the movie is should be some what insincere but i really cant tell.
Think about it, if the WG openly promoted the idea of protecting their own ass even jerks like Spandine may question whether to serve them, the true nature of the WG being exposed to Saul was what made him change allegiance. Plus if Akainu did something like that that wasn't as far as they really wanted it to be taken he'd a been reprimanded, did that happen? No. Hell I wouldn't be surprised if immediately after that he was promoted to admiral Akainu. Also it was made pretty clear that Saul was asking Aokiji (Kuzan) whether the justice that the WG was inacting there was his justice again tying everything to the WG, no one said that Sakazuki is a crazy guy, he was doing was is implicit of a buster call. Furthermore at the EL buster call a marine gave a damage report of the island and a VA said something like "Why? This is an indescriminate attack." So by definition that's what a buster call is.
And if you want to stretch it there's no clear cut good or bad in the real world since all beings operate to serve their self interests, however you're seriously down playing the extent of the atrocities that the WG would do to safeguard their self interests. If you ever seen the show 24, the Gorousei are essentially like the stereotypical villains inside the govt on that show who secretly aid terrorism for whatever outside agenda that they truly believe is for the betterment of the country, however that doesn't change the fact that what they did was wrong and when everything is exposed these guys end up yelling, " I'm a patriot!" as they're carted off to jail.
You seem like a person who'd read deathnote and sympathise with Kira, he too sought the betterment of society but was more of a blight on it than anything else.
Lastly your whole argument to me sounded like you believe that the WG is going to be revealed to have sought some idealized society and that what they do is to reach that goal, thus why there will be people who truly believe in said goal (Akainu) and that this is why they can't be pidgeonholed as just "evil", (and I agree this will happen however this isn't what I was arguing, this seemed like the obvious direction that Oda would take them in) if this is your argument then again I'm saying that there intentions don't wipe clean the blood that they've spilled through their actions which is why they are overall warped, "bad/evil".
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/395/09/
Look the the elder star down in the corner, man he really must be going in for the role. He really fooled me into thinking that this wasnt really how they wanted it to go down.
I mean the notion that all they did was some sort of elaborate farce is just strange, for whom would they act that play out if they planned on killing everyone all along?
I think well be seeing people who genuinly belive in what theyre doing, and have had to take some hard decisions in their life. Not all of them were things to be proud of. Would be the best way to show its not all black and white. Its not this guy is a good guy and this is a bad one(note the black top hat and dastardly mustache)
Who's arguing good intentions, what im arguing is more like that there is no clear cut good or bad, sometimes a good person will do bad things. Or vice-versa, the world goverment isnt just a group of people sitting in a room talking about what act of unmitigated evil shall be done today.
Oh and is Vanessa mocking me or agreeing, in context of the movie is should be some what insincere but i really cant tell.
The WG i don't like them and i think there are scum.But i think the problem is with the people at top and group they come from. I don't it is as simple as they want to take over the world .
The WG has what they believe in and think it's right but at same time dragon has what he believes in so he is fighting .
When it comes to thoses sort of things there no right or wrong just a matter of which one you think is best for you .
In my view i won't want people who can do what ever they want without paying price to rule over me, so i would say there evil. At same time if it don't effect other people why should they not be happy about it .
or garp did it, because the marine couldn´t handle two legends
One Whitebeard One Dragon :D who knows!
but Blackbeast thinks,that Garp has send Kuma there!
you heard it here first!
ahhh how annoying to see over 1500 posts in this thread…bahh and we still have for about a week:blink:
i rly think OP is now at its best but so many comments are just...ehhh toooooo much!
a few weeks ago you could barely go after 500 comments and you had some good points and than okay(ehh not always thought lol)
but now...damn love to see somuch OP-fans but i rly hope after this WARRRR!! we will get to normal chapter-discussion witha solid amount of comments to see over it
or garp did it, because the marine couldn´t handle two legends
One Whitebeard One Dragon :D who knows!
but Blackbeast thinks,that Garp has send Kuma there!
you heard it here first!
I think the other legend was Rayleigh but i'm not sure.
What is with all the "=D"; makes you look like your either 8 years old or 80. Stephen is a long time supporter of One Piece and was providing many of the translation for a long time. (I've personally been following OP since 2003, and he has been there since then or atleast longer.)
Personally, he is one of the few individuals who translates the One Piece manga to an accurate English translation from the original Japanese source.
Many people will refer to his text since early Scanalations were pretty bad.
Knowing is half the battle GO JOE haha
LOL. Well I've been following One Piece since either 03 or 04. And I'd never heard of this Stephen. Where can I find his translations? And I use the "=D" because using the "D." from the will of D. dosen't look nearly as cool.
=D
Uhhh so you're justifying that BB wasn't a bad guy with luffy escaping ID with hundreds of prisoners and therefore being evil?
What does luffys case has to do with BB being an evil guy for murdering a crewmate for a DF?
The point he's making is that every1 has their own opinoin on what evil and bad. As for 2many "the ends justify the means." Like some consider Luffy good even though he constantly opposses the law(WG), he's a criminal, And broke into and out of I.D. with hundreds of other criminals, but he tends 2hav a good heart and good over-all morals. Or how some will consider Itachi(from Naruto) good even though he killed his entire family, simply B-cuz he had what they will describe as good intentions and motives for doing so.
=D
This is his website. He's stopped, though :sad: .
I thought it was clear cut that the Elder Stars and the WG as a whole wasn't some big bad evil that's already dominated the free world and they must be stopped at the end of this story but I dunno maybe everyone isn't thinking or realizing the metaphors and analogies Oda's making.
Stand back away from the SHs for a second. Pirates are the bad guys and the marines are the bad guys. The fact that there are even a few "good" pirates is pretty baseless and for the sake of the manga. On the other hand, the WG parallel just about any gov't or organized power that had rule over the known world in our history. They represent the means justify the ends principle, the whole "leaving well enough alone"/ you're better off not knowing guidelines that most governments rule by in our present.
Coincidentally, I just finished watching the Watchmen movie(graphic novel is still superior but it was a nice visual) but you just have to ask yourself would you condone or condemn sacrificing millions to save billions? How important is peace if you have to build it on a lie?
Yes we know killing ppl for the wrong but I've always seen the WG believing in the whole greater good motto no matter what depraved acts they have to commit.
With all this said power still corrupts. So maybe one of those Elder Stars is a crazy evil mofo(I vote for the bald guy with the Victorian mustache and the scar on his forehead/head) we really just gotta wait and see. Ofcourse we're gonna come across asshole marines or WG agents that just displays the individuality of humans. Aint like all cops are good.
There's no downplaying the acts of the WG, it's called looking at the bigger picture. More than likely any one of us given the power to rule the world would have to make decisions that not every person would agree with, some would even call corrupt or evil.
Garp said that he will deal with Rayleigh, but in fact he sent Kuma to deliver a message to Rayleigh about Ace being Roger's son. As a bonus Kuma saved the Strawhat once again… simple as that.
Chapter: 501 Stephen
Marine: Er, right away.
What shall we do, Vice Admiral? Report to Fleet Admiral Sengoku?
Garp: No, I'll handle this. Don't tell anyone else, even Sengoku!
Make up some explanation for your men.
Garp said that he will deal with Rayleigh, but in fact he sent Kuma to deliver a message to Rayleigh about Ace being Roger's son. As a bonus Kuma saved the Strawhat once again… simple as that.
Chapter: 501 Stephen
Marine: Er, right away.
What shall we do, Vice Admiral? Report to Fleet Admiral Sengoku?Garp: No, I'll handle this. Don't tell anyone else, even Sengoku!
Make up some explanation for your men.
This is an improved speculation compared to that bullshit before.
IMO saying Garp sent Kuma to save the SHs because he guessed they'd run in to Rayleigh and the message given to Ray was what Garp meant by "deal with/handle/take care of it" is stupid.
I still feel that wasn't the case and Kuma was moving on his own or under someone else's orders and what he told Ray was not to worry about what he was about to do.
I'm wondering Zik what your views are on the fact that the WG decide to completely destroy countries that don't want to join them and send the citizen to tequila wolf to work till they die?
How does it fit in the big picture they're having?
@Zik:
I thought it was clear cut that the Elder Stars and the WG as a whole wasn't some big bad evil that's already dominated the free world and they must be stopped at the end of this story but I dunno maybe everyone isn't thinking or realizing the metaphors and analogies Oda's making.
Stand back away from the SHs for a second. Pirates are the bad guys and the marines are the bad guys. The fact that there are even a few "good" pirates is pretty baseless and for the sake of the manga. On the other hand, the WG parallel just about any gov't or organized power that had rule over the known world in our history. They represent the means justify the ends principle, the whole "leaving well enough alone"/ you're better off not knowing guidelines that most governments rule by in our present.
Coincidentally, I just finished watching the Watchmen movie(graphic novel is still superior but it was a nice visual) but you just have to ask yourself would you condone or condemn sacrificing millions to save billions? How important is peace if you have to build it on a lie?
Yes we know killing ppl for the wrong but I've always seen the WG believing in the whole greater good motto no matter what depraved acts they have to commit.
With all this said power still corrupts. So maybe one of those Elder Stars is a crazy evil mofo(I vote for the bald guy with the Victorian mustache and the scar on his forehead/head) we really just gotta wait and see. Ofcourse we're gonna come across asshole marines or WG agents that just displays the individuality of humans. Aint like all cops are good.
There's no downplaying the acts of the WG, it's called looking at the bigger picture. More than likely any one of us given the power to rule the world would have to make decisions that not every person would agree with, some would even call corrupt or evil.
Seeking out a single child to erase from existence due to who fathered him is a move I wouldn't make if I was a govt leader, making an 8 year old a global criminal is another move I wouldn't make if I was in power. Point is that I get the whole idea for the greater good and that you can't label the Gorousei as a bunch of doctor evils, however what the Gorousei are doing isn't the same as sacrificing lives to save more lives, these guys are killing to quell inconvenient truths in order to stay in power which was the whole point Clover was making that they should let the people learn the truth and the true history then move on from there. I mean seriously what they have done isn't considered evil by some people? What kind of justification would even exist for what they've done? No matter how much good you feel that you're doing when you start killing because the people "know too much" then I think it's safe to say you crossed that line between good and evil about ten miles back.
And those who werent guilty were sent of on a ship, mind you Akainu went ape shit and blew em up. But that wasnt something he was ordered to do. Even the actual execution seemed like something that the elder stars considered to be regretful but neccesary.
I do agree that the Gorosei do seem genuinely distraught over it. It doesn't change the fact that I find what they did to be absolutely despicable. It was necessary to cover up their sorted history indeed, but it was never something that they were doing out of genuine concern for their people. It was to eradicate knowledge of what I imagine is a great and shameful thing that the World Government caused.
@wolfwood:
Twasnt an island of innocent, it was an island mainly inhabited with archelogists who knew exactly what they were doing.
There were certainly more people that had nothing to do with the Poneglyph than people actively trying to translate them. Look at the escape ship. It's brimming with people, and many more are trying to get on. It looks like Clover's bunch has maybe 100 people in it tops. From the looks of things Spandine has almost as many people with him. My point being that the scholars were a small fraction of the total island population. The hammer of 'Justice' was brought down on a great number of innocent people.
@wolfwood:
That the world is in a somewhat peaceful state should indicate that the world goverment isnt fucking over everyone at each turn.
The world is in a peaceful state? I don't think that we've seen a single peaceful island yet have we? Unless we're counting the islands after Luffy fixed them…
I will agree that I don't think that the world government is fucking over everyone at each turn, but they certainly are bending over backwards trying to help either.
Seeking out a single child to erase from existence due to who fathered him is a move I wouldn't make if I was a govt leader, making an 8 year old a global criminal is another move I wouldn't make if I was in power. Point is that I get the whole idea for the greater good and that you can't label the Gorousei as a bunch of doctor evils, however what the Gorousei are doing isn't the same as sacrificing lives to save more lives, these guys are killing to quell inconvenient truths in order to stay in power which was the whole point Clover was making that they should let the people learn the truth and the true history then move on from there. I mean seriously what they have done isn't considered evil by some people? What kind of justification would even exist for what they've done? No matter how much good you feel that you're doing when you start killing because the people "know too much" then I think it's safe to say you crossed that line between good and evil about ten miles back.
That's you. You shouldn't assume what you think the truth of the Void century is either. They could be killing and shutting ppl up because they're actually protecting ppl from w/e this truth is. For all we know a couple ppl finding out the truth is exactly what made the void century the VOID CENTURY. We don't know if they're hiding the truth simply just to stay in power.
It's your opinion that they're killing to quell an inconvenient truth just to stay in power. You're talking as if you think at the end of this manga the whole OP world is going to know the truth. Maybe Clover was wrong? Maybe everyone knowing the truth isn't a good thing? You think our world would be better off if we knew the truth about everything? Seems to me Roger's crew didn't go around spreading the truth after they found out.
Making Robin a criminal at that age might not have been necessary but it's the quickest and most efficient way of getting rid of her (despite it failing). The fact remains that what she knows is illegal, a crime punishable by death.
I'm not judging moral compasses here but given what they know, or anyone for that matter in the same situation what is necessary is completely dependent on what the threat is.
As far as good and evil. You're dealing too much as if this is black and white and it is NOT. I don't think any one act can define a person or group as good or evil. It's really based on a life time of actions.
A soldier killing his enemy is a war hero fighting for his country. A man killing his enemy in the name of revenge is a murderer. Who's evil?
hmmmm. all this discussion of the WG being "good" or "bad" kinda reminds me of our former president Soeharto (i'm from indonesia, btw) by the end of his regime everyone condemned him and he is suddenly this great evil dictator. though he has done some really bad things, some would consider it inhuman, but no one can deny that during his regime he has increased the wellfare of this country, we have achieved much under his government. some of his deeds were…."necessary" in his eyes, to maintain order, and indeed during his government nobody dares to raise arm against him, things were very stable. i could go on and on about this, but my point is: once ure at the top of command, there is no such thing as black and white. so concerning hte WG, i just see them as ur standard world leader. though they have done major crimes, but at least the world is in stability, and is relatively safe, again, relatively. in a sense that no major war or stuff (until now, that is)
common guyz, stop dis fighting! nobodiez purrfect!!!!1
da WG iz still major coolzez!!11!!1!!
=D
pirates are bad guy….... politics are corrupted.... so why fight over this matter??? they are almost the same.... only different is pirate, they clearly say that they are bad guy..but politician not... they hiding behind their power, influence, fame and wealth...
marijuana much, hisoga?
pirates are bad guy….... politics are corrupted.... so why fight over this matter??? they are almost the same.... only different is pirate, they clearly say that they are bad guy..but politician not... they hiding behind their power, influence, fame and wealth...
tenryuubito are not politician.looks like they live in a golden world and they dont care of normal humans,and not all the politician are corrupted(cobra bibi..iceburg.)
hmmmm. all this discussion of the WG being "good" or "bad" kinda reminds me of our former president Soeharto (i'm from indonesia, btw) by the end of his regime everyone condemned him and he is suddenly this great evil dictator. though he has done some really bad things, some would consider it inhuman, but no one can deny that during his regime he has increased the wellfare of this country, we have achieved much under his government. some of his deeds were…."necessary" in his eyes, to maintain order, and indeed during his government nobody dares to raise arm against him, things were very stable. i could go on and on about this, but my point is: once ure at the top of command, there is no such thing as black and white. so concerning hte WG, i just see them as ur standard world leader. though they have done major crimes, but at least the world is in stability, and is relatively safe, again, relatively. in a sense that no major war or stuff (until now, that is)
Yes nothing is black and white but the OP world is not stable you have pirates all over the place. You have islands that are safe because of pirates. Then you have 4 of them that rule a part of the world. Mean while you have a group of people that can rape , kill , do what ever they want without worry . Then you have dragon who is at war with them. Now theres WB and another war at hand. Seems very unstable to me .
tenryuubito are not politician.looks like they live in a golden world and they dont care of normal humans,and not all the politician are corrupted(cobra bibi..iceburg.)
hihi…yeah...you are right..... but in my case, as long as there is "ruler and the one being rule" scenario, i just consider it as politic...