Non-Disney animation thread

Hiroy

I saw The Secret of Kells on Netflix today. I nearly shed a tear… It wasn't sad, but it was so beautiful. Ashley's song was just something.

dirt monkey AL

oyah

I just saw a hilariously awesome Russian cartoon

Ilya something something something

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It's got subs, but sometimes, they suck, and get cut off on the bottom - it's rare though.

Malintex_Terek

Классный клип, товарищ.

Илья ГАР.

Smudger

I just watched how to train your dragon again and loved it even more. Personally I'd filter out some of the scenes and touch up the goofy secondary characters, (younger group) but apart from that its quite enjoyable to watch. The only thing I'd say to people interested in this is that it takes a while for the story to really reach any kind of decent pace, but once the ball gets rolling it will steal all of your attention.

Side note: Do we have a DreamWorks thread? Can we have one?

Sami-chan

Ahh Dragon movie<3. I only got to see it once it came out on dvd, and kicked myself for not seeing it in the theaters. I liked the fact that it made me forget it was in 3d at all because it didn't feel like it forced it on you like other DW films coughmonstersvsalienscoughmegamindcough. But I think my absolute favorite thing about it was thinking the entire first time I watched it, "wow, Toothless reminds me of Stitch, how great.." Then the credits roll around and the FIRST credit is 'Directed and Co-written By Chris Sanders'. I died, i thought it was so awesome.

Also How To Train Your Dragon is one of the VERY few cg movies I've gotten my father to watch and actually ENJOY. And oddly, the first thing he said when he saw big-eyed Toothless is, "Hey, its Stitch!" And yes, I know this is not the Disney thread, but I think that's one of the reasons I liked this movie, because it didn't feel like many other of the DW movies ('cept maybe KungFu Panda as far as design went), but it wasn't completely gooey, it had a good balance on the humor and violence. I love Dreamworks, and Chris Sanders needs to do more for them, he would do well.

Robby

Sanders is doing something with cavemen next, due in 2012 I think.

Don't know any more than that, don't care, its Chris Sanders, it has my ticket sight unseen.

ChesCa

So, I just finished watching 'The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled.'
Hooooly shiiiiiiiit where do I start?
1. If I've said it once I've said it 1,000 times: I love silent characters.
2. The animation. Just…the animation.
3. Props to Zigzag taking his eventual fall more well than expected.
4. The climax was as awesome as it was odd but who the fuck goes to war with a machine like that? Also, while I hate hearing that the Thief was voiced with thoughts, is it worth hearing? Like, will it be entertaining even though it shouldn't be in the film at all?
That's all.

Baron Makaron

This post is deleted!

taboo

Like, will it be entertaining even though it shouldn't be in the film at all?
That's all.

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8^()

ChesCa

Watches the review done by the Nostalgia Critic AND Taboo's video
Incoming, possibly troll length rant
Inhales
[hide]
Okay, first order of business, that song.
True story: I once accidentaly listened to this for all of 15 minutes because I left my headphones on and got distracted:
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By the end, I was looking like the Clock Tower: A big, rictus grin on my face.
After listening to the song Taboo just posted, I fell apart like I was attacked by Thinner.
I can testify that that song is worse than 'It's a Small World.'
FAIL!
Then comes the next part of my rant, where I realized just how much they wanted Tack and the Thief to talk. I can take some inner monologue, but I learned something when using a disembodied voice to provide dialogue: Doing it too much will turn off and annoy the audience.
The Thief's lines wouldn't have been so bad if they just let his facial expressions do the work for the important parts of the film and maybe just kept his stuff to a minimal, but I guess the producers were afraid that if he was silent people would walk out of the theater.
WHO THE FUCK WALKS OUT OF THE THEATER BECAUSE A CHARACTER IS SILENT?!
Speaking as a guy who also has a silent character who expresses himself without inner monologue as a rule and would hate to have him taken from me and given a voice.
DOUBLE FAIL!
And finally, there's the fact that they changed so much of the movie solely to make it marketable. The Princess wants to escape privileged life and all that jazz, along with the unnecessary songs, which is stupid.
Now, here's my situation: I am currently helping write a couple of games (online games, nothing big like Bioware or anything), and my number one rule is to deliver a story that will sell. So, from my personal experience, making something marketable isn't inherently bad.
It's when you assume the audience's head is going to explode meaty chunks all over the place if something new happens that something can turn into a steaming pile of shit really quick. As guilty as I do feel for putting money making over the scripts I write, even my bosses know that the audience won't be engaged if they feel they're being talked down to.
Who makes these decisions and why do the writers let them into the creative decision making process? Especially since we're already talking about a movie that was alright to begin with.

How the conversation should have gone
Richard Williams: Well, I only worked on this for a couple of decades, so it should be decent and well thought out.
New Guy: Yeah man, I'm really sorry. I'll try not to let you down.
RW: Thanks, but it wasn't your fault.
New Guy: Don't worry; I'll only do minimal changes.

What seems to have happened
Richard Williams: Well, I only worked on this for a couple of decades, so it should be decent and well thought out.
New Guy: No, no. People won't like it. Better make it like Aladdin.
RW: What? Why?
NG: Shut up. You're old news. I know what the people really want.

I'd get fired in a second if I ever had an attitude like that.
COLOSSAL FAIL!!

Who knows how that Recobbled guy got even some pretty significant in status animators to help him but Thank God!
[/hide]
So…yeah. I really liked the movie.

taboo

After listening to the song Taboo just posted, I fell apart like I was attacked by Thinner.

Youre really lucky because that's by far not even the worst song in the movie, just the only song i could find on youtube

Robby

Am I working hard?
Coloring for hours a day?
Trying to earn a dime
Yes I'm working hard.

Am I working hard?
The internet is just play.
I guess I'm just wasting time…
Yes I'm working hard.

Am I working hard?
More than that song I'd say
Don't care about the pace or rhyme
Alan Menken that just aint.

Wow, it IS easy to write songs for that movie!

Insider2000

I just watched a little bit of Recobbled. I was surprised at how much I laughed at the scene with the thief and the old woman (Nanny, I think). Where the crap did that old women get that grip? She beat the crap out of him.

But the animation is amazing. The motion of Zig Zag's creepy ass feet. The fluid motion of different characters. The blinding floor patterns.

The romantic link between the princess and the cobbler (the heart with the shoe and the flowers) was pretty cute. And I love how the thief walks into the princess bathing, but instead of focusing on a naked woman, he focuses on the jewelled back scatcher. That spoke millions for a character who doesn't speak.

ChesCa

If you thinks that's great Insider, you should see how his thievery gets him caught (think 'Where the Red Fern Grows.')
The Thief is especially good because you get the sense he's a klepto rather than greedy.
Also, by the end of the movie you'll find that he has the most godly character shield known to man.
EDIT: In the Miramax version, the Thief thinks 'Ooh. A naked lady.'
FAIL!

Insider2000

Just finished the entire thing.

Wow…that entire scene with the Thief and his attempt to get the gold balls from the One Eye army. The roller coaster bit.

This movie is just....amazing.

I will confess that if this movie were to be released today, very few would truly appreciate it. Animated movies are shunned to only be for the youth and/or college students nowadays. People want goof ball references that isn't raunchy or too innappropriate for children. The only people who would appreciate it are fanatics of animation and the rare person who can appreciate such a simple story/movie. I'm a little bit of both, but if this movie didn't have the amazing animation it had, I think most would completely forget about it.

The animation is what made this movie, and it truly is worth mentioning.

ChesCa

This is going to sound corny, but a part of me was thinking that after the movie, the Thief would have made it into your avatar (between Grounder and the Frog).
And yeah, now that you point it out, I'm not sure how many would like a simple story line like that. Even the NC wanted to know what made the balls so special.
I always just figured they were either a good luck charm or just only given significance by the prophecy (as in 'Yeah, when these balls disappear, prepare for trouble m'kay?)

Insider2000

I'm not in a good place to edit my avatar, but I might consider it.

Tough choice between the Thief and Zig Zag. The Thief would most likely make it on my avatar, though I thought Zig Zag was awesome.

Only issue is that I'm cleaning my avatar up once the new year starts. I may still have Zoicite, and I will have Kururu (the Frog), but I want to add new characters I've never added before for the next year.

All the added characters came from conversations and situations that happened in 2010 on this forum.

And about the balls, I think they actually had no real purpose or use. I like to believe that it was just a coincidence that the thief removed the balls the moment One Eye was going to bring hell down, and the moment the Thief removed the balls from One Eye, One Eye's army fell apart.

If anything, the ball is just a way to signify that if one thing goes wrong, everything goes wrong. Much like Tak. Techinically, that was the entire movie. Everything that happened was at fault of the Thief and the Cobbler.

That's just my interpretation though.

Conekiller

Don' think this has been posted yet, but it's frfom the guy who gave us Triplets of Belleville.

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Mr. Luffy

@Baron:

Is all russian shit overly patriotic and racist like this nowadays? Man the "help me mother earth" and the east asian villain. It's just stupid.

Yeah, it's heavily political now which is why the Russians so rarely outsource them. Soviet animation had much more class and craft than this. The only real interest here is the very vague connection to the Monguls invading Russia.

Smudger

I'm quite shocked that in my time here I've never heard someone bring this old gem up.

! Ohw78b1TTFY

Robby

Well, it didn't have an ending and the live action footage silhouettes was kind of jarring.

It was a decent attempt though, it got a few things right that the live action version didn't. And considering when it was made, pretty impressive.

Even with all the rotoscoping.

Smudger

@RobbyBevard:

Well, it didn't have an ending and the live action footage silhouettes was kind of jarring.

It was a decent attempt though, it got a few things right that the live action version didn't. And considering when it was made, pretty impressive.

Even with all the rotoscoping.

It had faults here and there, but I always felt the dialogue and various characters shone through that.

I guess when you look how long ago it was made you can start to appreciate it a little more. Chances are they were treading on new soil in the animation department, so its not like they could have learnt too much from history to have improved it a fair deal. Or have known how well the various effects they used would have been received by the viewers.

You know oddly enough I find most of the cast more likeable than peter Jacksons remake.

Malintex_Terek

I played Interplay's LOTR game (and still have the original CD) and it featured cutscenes from that movie. But it only picked choice scenes, so when I saw the original film I falsely assumed it was going to be a life-changing experience.

As far as RPGs go, I felt that game was superior to most of the one's I've played since. It narrowly edges out the original Baldur's Gate in pure lore quality, because it didn't do what Star Wars did and make a certain ethnic group the centre of the universe.

Ubiq

Ralph Bakshi's Lord of the Rings featured the most epic "Horse walks forward, horse walks backward" sequence ever committed to film. Apparently once the test footage was filmed, "it was filmed and we're using it, damnit. You want we should tell Saul Zaentz I wasted his money or something?"

I wrote a lengthy review of it for a message board once where I had a lot of fun counting the coloring mistakes (the Moria sequence in particular is a goldmine for this; watch the Hobbits closely) along with other things. Aragorn taking a corner too quickly and almost slipping and falling down is a particularly amusing moment.

It's not a ten millionth as hilarious as Rankin-Bass' Return of the King though as that has one of the most hilarious animation mistakes I've ever seen.

CosmicDebris

I wouldn't call Peter Jackson's movies a "remake", just a much better produced adaption of the book. I think Ralph Bakshi's movie was pretty hilarious, but it was what it was for it's time period, maybe it would have been better if he didn't run out of money half way through.

Robby

@Ubiq:

It's not a ten millionth as hilarious as Rankin-Bass' Return of the King though as that has one of the most hilarious animation mistakes I've ever seen.

Which would be…?

Senshi Mizaka

@RobbyBevard:

Which would be…?

YdXQJS3Yv0Y

I think this song should give you a good idea about it…

Robby

Well yes, I know the whole movie is bad, but Ubiq seemed to have a specific moment in mind.

Frodoooo, of the niiiine fingers….

CosmicDebris

I figured he meant the whole movie, nothing specific. And yes, nothing like watching the R-B RotK with a bunch of nutty Tolkien fans MST3K style.

Cyan D. Funk

@Senshi:

YdXQJS3Yv0Y

I just noticed the disco influence in that song.

Robby

Though the Rankin Bass version of the Hobbit is really pretty good.

Weird how it slid so far.

KamenRiderNeko

You know, I've never actually seen the original LotR cartoon movie. I've seen bits and pieces thanks to the Nostalgia Critic, but that's about it.

I did see the Hobbit though, that was an interesting one, I may need to rewatch it to remember if it was good or not.

Ubiq

@RobbyBevard:

Which would be…?

While they're escaping from Cirith Ungol, the Watchers at the Gate struggle to hold Frodo and Sam inside, but lose to Galadriel's phial. After they give out, the whole building falls in on the Watchers.

Literally seconds later, a Nazgul flies by on their version of a Fell Beast, which then perches on the wall that we just saw collapse. It can't even be a different wall since Sam and Frodo look back to see it.

Satsuki

@KamenRiderNeko:

You know, I've never actually seen the original LotR cartoon movie. I've seen bits and pieces thanks to the Nostalgia Critic, but that's about it.

I did see the Hobbit though, that was an interesting one, I may need to rewatch it to remember if it was good or not.

The Hobbit was good. RotK, not so much.

Malintex_Terek

@Senshi:

YdXQJS3Yv0Y

I think this song should give you a good idea about it…

What the heck am I watching?

ChesCa

So yeah, a few days ago I saw 'Batman: Under the Red Hood' on my friend's Netflix.
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Yes.

Malintex_Terek

Is that Deadpool?

ChesCa

@Malintex_Terek:

Is that Deadpool?

Read the title.
But yes, even I saw the similarities. Especially when he cracked some jokes.

KamenRiderNeko

That movie was good, my friends have it on Blu ray. I also watched those animated shorts where Batman was drawn in different anime styles. It was pretty cool, I recognized one of them as the animators that did the Ghost in the Shell series.

Oh, has anyone brought up any Don Bluth films in here? I love most of them, The Secret of NIMH is my favorite by far.

Cyborg009

@KamenRiderNeko:

Oh, has anyone brought up any Don Bluth films in here? I love most of them, The Secret of NIMH is my favorite by far.

anything done by Don Bluth is good in my books.

like this old classic for example:

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KamenRiderNeko

I have loved them just as much as Disney films, there were a few that I could've done with out, but that's like one or two titles. Well, unless you count the over nine thousand Land Before Time sequels that should've never happened.

Here's a beautiful scene from Thumbelina. Too bad most of the other songs were actually pretty bad, (like that horrid "Thumbelina" theme at the beginning… uugh). There were a couple of good ones. I swear, they spent most of their budget on this scene alone. Plus, that's Ariel's voice actress =3
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Robby

@Cyborg009:

anything done by Don Bluth is good in my books.

Nimh, American Tail, Land Before Time, Anastasia are the good ones.

All Dogs Go to Heaven is all right but really bizarre. Dragon's Lair/Space Ace is pretty cool for a 5 minute game.

Rock-a-Doodle, Thumbelina, A Troll in Central Park, The Pebble and the Penguin, Titan A.E., Bartok … (basically everything since 1990) not so much. This could be in part because in 1990, he downsized his animation staff, cut ties with Spielberg, and as well as a possible case of innovation fatigue.

Tho he was also involved in quite a few Disney flicks between Sleeping Beauty and Fox & the Hound.

CosmicDebris

You didn't like Titan A.E.? I liked that a whole lot better than All Dogs Go to Heaven.

KamenRiderNeko

Same here, I loved Titan A.E. Too bad it did so terrible in the box office. Also, I have to mention, the commentary is unbearable because all they're doing is complaining about the movie. I didn't like listening to that, since I actually adored the movie. They said something about the soundtrack not fitting with some of the scenes which is horseshit.

Robby

Titan A.E. was gorgeous but also infuriating. All these great sequences that added up to a story that fundamentally makes no sense. Scientist builds a ship that can create a new earth. Aliens are so upset they destroy the old earth necessitating the creation of the new earth. We run around for a bit. We put our characters in various "dangerous" situations (all of which are solved in the very next scene) and wind up creating a new earth to replace the old. Of course in the process the Titan ship is destroyed (or utilized, whatever) so now all the aliens have to do is destroy this new Earth and, hey, we're all doomed. Great. Character motivation is awful. But, hey, it looked great, and there were great sequences. Why should I care if there are story holes you can drive a truck through?

It also led to the closure of the Fox animation studio and set a precedent against smarter action animated films, which Atlantis and Treasure Planet flopping then managed to seal the deal on. (And I liked Treasure Planet) Which makes the studios think that animated action movies just don't work. (Like Princess movies don't work after P&tF "only" made more money than Aladdin) They won't want to make any more. They won't say, hey, bad script. A good script will make a good movie. They'll just say bad combo: no one likes action and animation.

There was cool stuff in it, but the movie itself was bad, and the effect it had on the industry was worse.

Ubiq

Titan A.E. comes across as something that would probably have worked better as a television series than as a stand-alone film. The plot is thin, but that has a lot to do with the fact that there are so characters, locations, and plot twists jammed in there that none of them ever really have time to fully develop and a lot of the plot is told to us rather than shown. The Drej particularly suffer from that.

Making it into a series instead would have given the animators entire episodes to explain what in the hell was going on. Say that you could have had an entire episode about the Drej and their discovery that the humans are using energy remarkably similar to their life force in an experiment to create new planets. It's not intentional and it's not exactly the same as the Drej life force, but it's close enough that they view it in the same way that humans would feel about fueling a boiler by using kittens and puppies as fuel.

RuNa

@Senshi:

YdXQJS3Yv0Y

I think this song should give you a good idea about it…

That static image looks a LOT like Gecko Moriah.

Robby

@RuNa:

That static image looks a LOT like Gecko Moriah.

Oh geez. It's like Hades and Ryuk all over again.

Now that you've said it, I can't unsee it.

andre

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I watched this movie years ago with my dad on HBO and remember liking it a lot back in middle school. Anyone seen it before?

Nobodyman

@RobbyBevard:

It also led to the closure of the Fox animation studio and set a precedent against smarter action animated films, which Atlantis and Treasure Planet flopping then managed to seal the deal on. (And I liked Treasure Planet)

Oh dude, c'mon. I can except that you don't like Titan A.E., but that's just…...

Well, Atlantis was awesome at any rate. And yes, I do like Titan A.E., though it's been a while since I've seen it. I like Titan A.E. because it had some great characters and...well, yes, nice shiny animation. The story concept itself was pretty interesting, but yeah, it did need some polishing (maybe even some restructuring). Anyway, I would rank the three movies as follows:

1. Atlantis
2. Titan A.E.
3. Treasure Planet

On the subject of Don Bluth, Land Before Time was my childhood. Unfortunately, so were the sequels.