Is Haki a Technique? Should it be Translated?

brennen.exe

@-wahn-:

I myself happen to be what Demon Rin referred to as a "Japanese fan". As in, I read from the particular source whereas others read from scanlators material. Haki is a common word in Japan. Still, that doesn't mean every Japanese person knows what it means or uses it in regular conversation. It's more like there is nothing unusual about the word, and it is used just like the way an English speaker would read the word "ambition". We look at it as an ordinary word, but somehow we understand the word actually has a deeper meaning to it.

This seems like the most important part. I would love to have this explained a bit more.

-wahn-

I'm not sure what's left to explain because as I said, the word are common. People in Japan know the word, saw the word many times before, but for some reason look passed it because it's their own native language. They know what it meant but they don't know what the word represent in the manga or what the significant meaning behind it. It also depends on the context and / or content of the conversation. It doesn't have one specific meaning where you can or must apply or pinpoint the word to any type of conversation that have the same word on it.

It's kind of like you, a native English speaker, read your own comic, in your own native language. You will read every word as something that are common, already understand it in a first glimpse and subconsciously look passed it. However, you will later realized the word to have a deeper meaning to it once the word are being played and emphasizes more by the author. You will look back to the previous encounters where the word being used and try to apply your own definition to it. Sometimes when you apply it, it will not makes any sense and doesn't seems to have any significant meaning behind it, but sometimes it does makes sense because as I said earlier, it depends on the content.

In One Piece case, the word Haki are never emphasizes by Odachi until he started to elaborate and put the word in play later on as the story progressed. The word that we read as a common word back then, started to have its own significant meaning, not only to ourselves, but also to the storyline.

I'm sorry if this response doesn't answer your question though because English wasn't my first language. ^_^;;

brennen.exe

@-wahn-:

The word is common. People in Japan know the word, saw the word used many times before, but for some reason look passed it because it's their own native language. They know what it meant but they don't know what the word represents in the manga or what the significant meaning behind it is (in the manga). It also depends on the context and / or content of the conversation. […] It's kind of like when you, a native English speaker, read your own comic in your own native language. You will read every word as something that are common, already understand it in a first glimpse and subconsciously look passed it. However, you will later realize the word has a deeper meaning to it once the word is played with and emphasized more by the author.

@-wahn-:

I'm sorry if this response doesn't answer your question though because English wasn't my first language. ^_^;;

No, it's fine. The reason I ask is because people have been claiming that when Japanese people read the word, "haki", they see some spiritual connotation from the kanji 覇 and 気, and therefore believe the word has more intended meaning than simply "ambitions".

Basically, I think Oda intends for the term to be somewhat confusing. Like you said, initially you look past it as a "common term", but later on in the story you learn that the word will play a more significant role. This means that, for the most part, Oda is using the word in two ways: the power/ability, and the common term. While somewhat confusing, the two can fairly easily be identified (so far). I think. I mean, I might be totally wrong, but I think this would make the most sense. Especially given the theme of the story. Anyway, I have said this all before…

HaxeyeMihawk

@-wahn-:

I'm not sure what's left to explain because as I said, the word are common. People in Japan know the word, saw the word many times before, but for some reason look passed it because it's their own native language. They know what it meant but they don't know what the word represent in the manga or what the significant meaning behind it. It also depends on the context and / or content of the conversation. It doesn't have one specific meaning where you can or must apply it to any type of conversation that have the same word on it.

It's kind of like you, a native English speaker, read your own comic, in your own native language. You will read every word as something that are common, already understand it in a first glimpse and subconsciously look passed it. However, you will later realized the word to have a deeper meaning to it once the word are being played and emphasizes more by the author. You will look back to the previous encounters where the word being used and try to apply your own definition to it. Sometimes when you apply it, it will not makes any sense and doesn't have any significant meaning behind it, but sometimes it does because as I said earlier, it depends on the content.

In One Piece case, the word Haki are never emphasizes by Odachi until he started to elaborate and put the word in play later on as the story progressed. The word that we read as a common word back then, started to have its own significant meaning, not only to ourselves, but also to the storyline.

I'm sorry if this response doesn't answer your question though because English wasn't my first language. ^_^;;

What's your opinion on this?:
[hide]@C.A:

Hmmm I don't come over to this subforum much but I'm an up to date follower of One Piece manga. I do have something to say about Haki. To the western world Haki is something that's not properly understood, even in this thread. Simply because there's no single word that describes Haki well enough. But to us East Asians, Japanese and Chinese, the words Haki is an instantly understood term. It is a term that is Asian in origin and loosely phrased and understood in the Western world.What Haki really is and means:The words Ha and Ki, meaning 'dominate' and 'air'. Together you can make out something like 'air of dominance/atmosphere of fear' or better phrased, 'Aura of dominance/supremacy' or 'Aura of fear/terror'.You can't really train yourself to just have Haki, it does not happen by itself or just suddenly.

When you train yourself to become stronger or over time have attained some form of aggression, Haki will come along. It is something that builds up over experience and time and can be activated at will. But it can also be something that happens involutarily, examples of Haki in various forms:A large wrestler say, 'The Rock'. If you, as a normal person stands in the ring and he is about to charge towards you, or just staring hard at you, you will be pretty much in fear. But once he puts on some clothes and goes off stage and becomes friendly, even the kids can approach him easily for an autograph. Your pet dog is a cute and lovable family member, but if anyone trys to snatch its food bowl it will bark ferociously baring its teeth. Even you yourself would be quite fearful.Those are examples of actively expressing Haki physically through appearance and facial expression.Examples of involutary Haki: An infamous gangster that has been jailed for years but still remembered by people for his doings. He was known to have beaten several people to a bloody pulp before getting into jail, but since then he has already turned over a new leaf. He walks on the street trying to be friendly but people just turns silent wherever he goes, simply because they know he was a violent criminal.No matter how tame a lion or a bear is, it is a wild animal and for that we are wary even if they are circus animals dressed in frilly costumes. You would have fear to approach them to take pictures even if they are chained and in cages.

–------------In One Piece Haki is basically much the same, the amplification of fear. Though we've seen its effects with much more extreme results. Like Shanks making people fear him so much that they foam from their own fear. And Rayleigh demonstrating how you can spread fear to others but at the same time not to people who you are not hostile towards.So Haki cutting the sky into two? No, its not their Haki, its just the pure power, the power of them clashing.Haki flinching Logias? Plausible, if someone could perform an action or expression that can instill enough fear, Logias could literally solidfy in their tracks.

---------------About Zoro: I agree on parts where it is a manifestation of his Haki or rather Sakki(killing intent). Sakki is another form of Haki that is also very common in Eastern manga, Akuma and Evil Ryu is famous for their Sakki. Shun Goku Satsu is an attack that uses their Sakki to strike terror into the opponent, render them helpless and allows Akuma to unleash a killing combo. Sakki is a much darker form of Haki, it does not spread just fear of the individual, but fear that they may be killed.Zoro's Asura strikes fear into the opponent messing up their minds and together with his incredibly fast movements, creates an illusion where he suddenly gains extra heads and limbs like the demon Asura himself.

[/hide]

-wahn-

@Brennen.exe:
I can't speak of Odachi but I think this confusion probably happened because of different cultures or East meet West sort of things. While the easterners believed there are spiritual energy that gives people power, the westerners prefer to trust their own eyes as in, looking for something visible, solid or physical. Maybe Odachi doesn't intend the word to be confused by his reader (both in the east and west) but we all know he has a habit on ties in several things in his manga. Most people will prefer to look at it as his foreshadowing method rather than him connecting something has no purpose at first, but develop it later on.

@HaxeyeMihawk:
Hmm.. I'm not sure what I should response to that one. I think it's the same thing I explained on the above statement. I think most of the statements are relevant, or maybe I'm just biased because I understand it from Eastern / Asian point of view. Haki is spiritual presence from Easterners point of view whereas Westerners are probably having a hard time to believe something spiritual unless it has a solid / physical presence. Haki can also be referred as an aura or something. It's not visible, but you know it's there, as you can feel or affected by it.

I guess that's probably explain why some people choose to makes an assumption or a conclusion that Haki is a technique because the way it was present (the action, the attack) are more visible to their eyes. As I said in my first post, Haki originate as something spiritual, but it can be apply onto something that will makes it a technique. I think that's what Oda is trying to do. Combining spiritual aura / presence into a physical based attack that will gives his character more advantage in their fight. This has been shown in Amazon Lily where people can apply their Haki on their attack. This will gives the person that has Haki more advantage in a fight if they can apply his Haki into his move set rather than used it to scare / intimidates others like most people thought what Haki is.

This also explained why it's being noted in the manga that Luffy need to learn on how to control or master his Haki. He needs to know how, when, where, and why he needs to apply Haki. Especially learn how to apply it in his move set if he wants to get stronger. Luffy's Haki are already there all along. What he needs to do now is, knows how and when to apply his Haki depending on the situation he is in. This might also apply to Zoro's ability to cuts steel (or whatever he wants to cut) for some reason. Then again, we never know how far Odachi will take this thing as he might exploit or explore this Haki things even further. He might dropped the actual definition of Haki and present it his own imaginative / original way.

HaxeyeMihawk

What you're saying would make sense and if easterners aren't as confused as westerners due to an understanding of the spiritual meanings of haki, here in the west we don't have as much of a spiritual aspect to the word ambition when using it as a translation for haki thus it lacks the mystical side of things needed to fully understand it in the context of OP. The issue is that when we use ambition as a translation it excludes the spiritual side but if we use air of dominance it excludes the ambition aspect, so in the end we're stuck with ambition as a translation but it just feels like a gimped/lame translation.

SabZ

Wow, people are really getting into this debate. Bores the shit outta me. Don't really care about the specifics of haki.

HaxeyeMihawk

@$abZ:

Wow, people are really getting into this debate. Bores the shit outta me. Don't really care about the specifics of haki.

Lol then why would you bother with this thread?

brennen.exe

@-wahn-:

Maybe Odachi doesn't intend the word to be confused by his reader (both in the east and west) but we all know he has a habit on ties in several things in his manga.

What I am referring to, specifically, is Blackbeard's use of the word. He meets Luffy, and he feels nothing, sees nothing, and says nothing about this "haki". Yet later, when he learns that Luffy's bounty is 100mil, he reflects on Luffy's actions earlier (resisting Bellamy) and comments that he had thought that 30mil was small for someone with "such 覇気" (haki/ambition). Now, he is either referring to Luffy's "drive and willpower to do things; ambitiousness" or Luffy's "spiritual intimidation power" or whatever. Technically, both can make sense, but there are two issues I have with the latter:

So far we have no reason to believe you can "sense" or "see" someone's Haki/Ambition unless they are using it.[[URL="http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/518/15/"]1][[URL="http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/519/18/"]2] How, then, did Blackbeard know Luffy's Haki/Ambition was worth noting, let alone that Luffy had it or could use it at all? Which, at the time, Luffy couldn't. Also, Oda reminds us of things he doesn't expect us to remember. [[URL="http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/531/19/"]3][[URL="http://mangahelpers.com/downloads/read-online/48136/18"]4] Back then the concept/ability hadn't even really been hinted at, so how could we have understood what Blackbeard meant if he was referring to something yet to be hinted at or introduced even?
So far, I think it is safe to assuming you cannot "train" or "increase" your Haki/Ambition, but can only learn how to use it, and then further master that usage. This might not be true in One Piece, but as of now Luffy has the "strongest" despite having no training or whatever, so it would appear his "color" was inborn or, as much as I disagree with the suggestion, acquired. Theoretically, there are other examples of it being "inborn", suggesting it is not acquired. [[URL="http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/265/03/"]5] So going back to Blackbeard (in Impel Down this time), how can Luffy's Haki/Ambition have "grown"? We know Luffy's goals, willpower, and ambitiousness have visibly grown (Enies Lobby, Tenryuubito, Impel Down), but to now suggest that Blackbeard can not only sense, but also measure, seems far fetched to me. Especially when the Amazon's descriptions and comments appear to refute both claims.

@HaxeyeMihawk:

What you're saying would make sense and if easterners aren't as confused as westerners due to an understanding of the spiritual meanings of haki, here in the west we don't have as much of a spiritual aspect to the word ambition when using it as a translation for haki thus it lacks the mystical side of things needed to fully understand it in the context of OP.

Again, that's not necessarily true. Up until recently the "connotations" of the word have played no part in the story, so if "覇気" (haki) is a common word in Japanese, the Japanese readers were reading it as that simple, common word. This would be the same as us English readers with "ambition"; just a common word. It isn't until Oda's fictional ability starts to flesh out that the connotations might apply. Even then, it should be clear to the English readers that "ambition" is being used as the name of some fictional ability. Connotations or not, we can now see that "ambition" is being used in a spiritual or mystical way simply by the things that are being "done" with it. It doesn't need to make sense, because in Japan people don't read attacks, shoot arrows through walls, and light themselves on fire with no problems simply because "they have Haki". Since it is being fictionally exaggerated, connotations don't matter. It is clear no matter what word you use that something mystical or unnatural is occurring.

HaxeyeMihawk

This could imply that BB misjudged Luffy's presence in Jaya because at the time Luffy wasn't in an aggressive state of mind as he would be the 2nd time they'd meet in ID in which Luffy was fighting BB. I'll use a similar animal example as that C.A guy I just quoted: If you were to see a huge dog chained behind a fence you may feel intimidation due to it's presence even if it doesn't take note of you, but if it barks and snarls at you it's intimidating presence will increase right? This is a similar situation, Luffy's weaponised haki wasn't used vs. BB but he exerted more of his presence in front of BB than previously. Remember BB and his crew were pissing Luffy off in the 2nd meeting and basically saying they could've taken his life at anytime, to which Luffy said just try it and essentially increased the presence that BB could feel in Jaya through his aggression. Luffy's ambition has always been to be the PK it has never changed but the english ambition has little to do with the presence that Luffy has.

brennen.exe

@HaxeyeMihawk:

This could imply that BB misjudged Luffy's presence in Jaya because at the time Luffy wasn't in aggressive state of mind as he would be the 2nd time they'd meet in ID in which Luffy was fighting BB. I'll use a similar animal example as that C.A guy I just quoted: If you were to see a huge dog chained behind a fence you may feel intimidation due to it's presence even if it doesn't take note of you, but if it barks and snarls at you it's intimidating presence will increase right?

Every use so far has been clear (from Luffy). Every time something has happened someone made a comment. [[URL="http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/495/17/"]1][[URL="http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/519/18/"]2][[URL="http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/536/18/"]3] At that time, nothing happened and nobody made a comment. Blackbeard's use of the word later was an afterthought BASED ON LUFFY'S BOUNTY. Furthermore, the Amazon's comments suggest the opposite. When he hit Bacura, nothing. NOTHING. Why would there be nothing there, but there was when Luffy was stuffing his face with food or refusing to fight some pirates? Why would there be no comment, or suggestive art? Why would, when Luffy displays his Haki/Ambition for the one and only time in front of the Amazons, they classify it as the strongest?

SabZ

@HaxeyeMihawk:

Lol then why would you bother with this thread?

Because I love it really.

HaxeyeMihawk

@brennen.exe:

Every use so far has been clear (from Luffy). Every time something has happened someone made a comment. [1][2][3] At that time, nothing happened and nobody made a comment. Blackbeard's use of the word later was an afterthought BASED ON LUFFY'S BOUNTY. Furthermore, the Amazon's comments suggest the opposite. When he hut Bacura, nothing. NOTHING. Why would there be nothing there, but there was when Luffy was stuffing his face with food or refusing to fight some pirates? Why would there be no comment, or suggestive art? Why would, when Luffy displays his Haki/Ambition for the one and only time in front of the Amazons, they classify it as the strongest?

And you're confusing it, I would classify haki in two ways; one being weaponised haki used for combat and the instant k.o, second is just the haki one could feel from someone's presence alone. Nowhere am I implying that Luffy used weaponised haki vs BB, what I'm saying based off the impression I'm getting from people explaining the eastern concept is that in Jaya BB could sense greatness within Luffy beyond that of a 30 mil bounty, then in ID Luffy's aggression exerted more of his presence to BB thus BB realised that he underestimated Luffy. The words "Why don't you try it!" were written funky too.

I think if you ever have read/seen Berserk the presence use of haki is similar to Griffith.

brennen.exe

@HaxeyeMihawk:

And you're confusing it, I would classify haki in two ways; one being weaponised haki used for combat and the instant k.o, second is just the haki one could feel from someone's presence alone. Nowhere am I implying that Luffy used weaponised haki vs BB, what I'm saying based off the impression I'm getting from people explaining the eastern concept is that in Jaya BB could sense greatness within Luffy beyond that of a 30 mil bounty, then in ID Luffy's aggression exerted more of his presence to BB thus BB realized that he underestimated Luffy.

Ummm….. and how come the Amazon's, One Piece's "Haki Experts", couldn't "sense greatness within Luffy" until he used it? In fact, the opposite happened, they called him trash up until that point. Oh, and let's not forget Blackbeard spent 20 years looking for a fruit power that allows him to fight overconfident power users when, whoops, he could have just used Haki/Ambition. I mean, if he can sense and measure it, then surely he can use it?

@HaxeyeMihawk:

The words "Why don't you try it!" were written funky too.

@_@

HaxeyeMihawk

@brennen.exe:

Ummm….. and how come the Amazon's, One Piece's "Haki Experts", couldn't "sense greatness within Luffy" until he used it? In fact, the opposite happened, they called him trash up until that point. Oh, and let's not forget Blackbeard spent 20 years looking for a fruit power that allows him to fight overconfident power users when, whoops, he could have just used Haki/Ambition. I mean, if he can sense and measure it, then surely he can use it?

O_O

The amazons assessment of Luffy was obviously biased, it's not a big stretch to say that their general opinion of men would/could affect how they look at their potential, BB just felt Luffy's presence (basically he sensed Luffy's potential) this has nothing to do with BB being able to sense or even be aware of haki being used in weaponised form, that's the confusion you're having.

Bottomline is that the way I see it is that there's a presence that people have in OP like the spiritual connotation of haki then there's the crazy yet unexplained weaponised haki usage, they're separate things. Now I really think plain ambition isn't enough to translate haki.

Darkstorm

I sense a great disturbance in the haki.

V-time

While i think that Brennen has a good point with his example one thing still bothers me is that Oda used different Kanji to describe Hannyabel ambition than he does for the ambition (haki) of Luffy & co. Again if one does translate it then i would be in favor of "presence" since it shows better the possible mythical background behind the word in case that was intended.

Urouge

@brennen.exe:

@_@

The guy who picks the fonts over at Franky House is omnipotent in these matters. Just admit defeat.

brennen.exe

@HaxeyeMihawk:

that's the confusion you're having.

It isn't confusion that I am having. You, and others, are forcing the eastern concept and connotations of haki into whatever Oda is creating here.

Question: Is the "haki" in One Piece the same as the eastern concept?
Answer: No.

Why? Because even if that is where Oda's concept is derived from, which we technically have no proof of right now, the concept is clearly being stretched, exaggerated, and used in MUCH different ways. The only similarity so far is "knocking people out", which is not even confirmed yet as "overwhelming with presence"; that much is just assumed by readers. Therefore, we can, for the same of arguing, split "haki" into three categories, to which I personally think only the first and last exist within One Piece.

Ambition, the desire to get up and do what you have to do; willpower, energy, and drive.
Dominating presence, intimidating aura, etc.
A special ability that allows you to read movement, increase defence, increase power, knock people out, hit things that should be intangible, etc, etc.

@V-time:

While i think that Brennen has a good point with his example one thing still bothers me is that Oda used different Kanji to describe Hannyabel ambition than he does for the ambition (haki) of Luffy & co. Again if one does translate it then i would be in favor of "presence" since it shows better the possible mythical background behind the word in case that was intended.

I guess I am still open to other words, but I cannot shake the thought that Oda intentionally chose this word because of its connection to the theme of the story: dreams, goals, accomplishing those goals, willpower, etc. That, and it isn't uncommon for people to use different words for the same thing. The important part would be to make a note of the word used if it plays significance in the story. Which, personally, I would do…

V-time

The main problem is that the word Haki seems to have this double meaning described earlier where in the english language lacks the "words" that have the same meaning. It´s kinda like the puns earlier in the story which were untranslateable as well. Well in short it would be good to discuss it with other groups to somehow get a unified translation/agreement to leave it untranslated,

HaxeyeMihawk

@brennen.exe:

It isn't confusion that I am having. You, and others, are forcing the eastern concept and connotations of haki into whatever Oda is creating here.

Question: Is the "haki" in One Piece the same as the eastern concept?
Answer: No.

Why? Because even if that is where Oda's concept is derived from, which we technically have no proof of right now, the concept is clearly being stretched, exaggerated, and used in MUCH different ways. The only similarity so far is "knocking people out", which is not even confirmed yet as "overwhelming with presence"; that much is just assumed by readers. Therefore, we can, for the same of arguing, split "haki" into three categories, to which I personally think only the first and last exist within One Piece.

Ambition, the desire to get up and do what you have to do; willpower, energy, and drive.

Dominating presence, intimidating aura, etc.

A special ability that allows you to read movement, increase defence, increase power, knock people out, hit things that should be intangible, etc, etc.

No you're evident confusion is that you can't see that Oda is clearly taking the eastern concept (this is a japanese comic) of people having a presence then he's exaggerating it by showing that some people can make use of this presence as some sort of mystical power for attacks. Seriously have you never seen an anime or manga in which a character didn't have to do anything yet people would note the characters greatness? That's what haki is conceptualizing, then Oda exaggerates it by making this into wacky powers. It's pretty evident that the haki using Kuja have a presence of intimidation just look at the marines comments about them when Hancock was introduced. Difference is that the kuja can used weaponised haki.

In ID and in Jaya BB was estimating Luffy's potential through the presence he felt, not estimating his ambition, that doesn't even make sense.

brennen.exe

Well, again, the "double meaning" appears to only be in connotation, not literal definition. And given that is true, the "connotation" would be clearly applied when "Ambition" is shown as a power or mystical ability in Amazon Lily. So all meanings would come across, including the tie in to the stories theme, whereas leaving the untranslated "haki" would not.

HaxeyeMihawk

@brennen.exe:

Well, again, the "double meaning" appears to only be in connotation, not literal definition. And given that is true, the "connotation" would be clearly applied when "Ambition" is shown as a power or mystical ability in Amazon Lily.

So all meanings would come across, including the tie in to the stories theme, whereas leaving the untranslated "haki" would not.

As I said ambition is the best that can be used as a trans because english just doesn't have a word for the spiritual side of haki, and even though it's just a haki connotation the kanji does say "air" and "dominance" so mentioning a dominant presence in a tn wouldn't kill anyone.

However it just never made sense to me that BB was sensing that Luffy's ambition had grown when in fact Luffy's ambition has been to become PK since age 7. Nor would it make sense that BB was sensing Luffy's weaponised haki since weaponised haki was implied to be unknown/unconceptualised outside of Amazon Lily, so in the end BB was just sensing Luffy's presence (haki) which basically gave the impression to him that his potential is greater than 30 million. And in ID BB basically just said "this kids potential is greater than I thought".

andy

OP is a eastern comic , it going to use concepts from there own culture . The problem is we don't have that . When a Japanese person see the word haki they know the meaning and the concept behind .
In anime and manga we see sakki being used alot when we see a translation we use two words so none of the meaning is lost . When you just use ambition some of the meaning of haki is lost.
We see zoro used sakki in the manga .It's the same for Haki we now see Oda uses the eastern concept of Haki . Haki to make people weapons stronger, to make people feint etc etc . I say we use two words so none of the meaning it lost . Willpower, ambition aura, Ambition spirit etc etc it does not have to be only one word. People translate sakki as many things but most of the time none of the meaning is lost.

Sakonosolo

What is sakki? Is that a typo or something? And about having 2 words: Will Power, there fixed .

HaxeyeMihawk

@Kairouseki:

What is sakki? Is that a typo or something? And about having 2 words: Will Power, there fixed .

sakki is killing intent, another form of presence you see being felt from characters in anime and manga, ex: Kakashi was training Sasuke and knew Gaara was watching them because he could feel his intense killing intent (sakki).

V-time

Sakki is a different Haki (sorry for that) usually translated as Killing Intent as far as i know (and this might not be much). It was also mentioned in the Quote Urouge gave us and then redirected to Zoro and Evil Ryu and Akuma from Street Fighter…

Phoenix Zoan

Uh its neither yes or no. We don't know enough about haki to give a definitie answer. Considering though it is a eastern comic, haki being based on eastern themes makes sense. Zoro making people piss their pants is normally what eastern cultures would refer to as sakki (killing intent).

andy

@Kairouseki:

What is sakki? Is that a typo or something? And about having 2 words: Will Power, there fixed .

Sakki is as translate as death lust, killing aura, Killing intent and few more .
If i remember right zoro uses his sakki to create the illusions you see him do i think that it was in one of the data books i could be wrong thought .

wintergt

@andy:

OP is a eastern comic , it going to use concepts from there own culture . The problem is we don't have that . When a Japanese person see the word haki they know the meaning and the concept behind .
In anime and manga we see sakki being used alot when we see a translation we use two words so none of the meaning is lost . When you just use ambition some of the meaning of haki is lost.
We see zoro used sakki in the manga .It's the same for Haki we now see Oda uses the eastern concept of Haki . Haki to make people weapons stronger, to make people feint etc etc . I say we use two words so none of the meaning it lost . Willpower, ambition aura, Ambition spirit etc etc it does not have to be only one word. People translate sakki as many things but most of the time none of the meaning is lost.

Not a bad idea. Right now if we translate it, the word (ambition/willpower/..) becomes the name for a mental power. You have to say "he is using 'Ambition'." and you can't really say "he is being ambitious" or "he is an ambitiious person". But it also possible to keep the translation purely descriptive. Something like "ambitious mindpower". So it would be "He is using (his) ambitious mindpower". Then it becomes a concept instead of a description for a power. That's how sakki is treated anyway. ("his killing intent..")

Hattori Hanzo

@wintergt:

Not a bad idea. Right now if we translate it, the word (ambition/willpower/..) becomes the name for a mental power. You have to say "he is using 'Ambition'." and you can't really say "he is being ambitious" or "he is an ambitiious person". But it also possible to keep the translation purely descriptive. Something like "ambitious mindpower". So it would be "He is using (his) ambitious mindpower". Then it becomes a concept instead of a description for a power. That's how sakki is treated anyway. ("his killing intent..")

I would like to see more of that in translations. Since english has a finite meaning of Haki, why not just be descriptive of the word instead of trying to find our own word to replace it.

Robby

@Greg:

Question.

Is there a debate over the translation of haki?

Not the translation so much. But the *should it be translated?" part. (Yes, it should be, duh.)

Everyone knows it translates as ambition, but then you intertwine it with that it might be a Named Attack thing, Blackbeard uses the word but maybe doesn't mean Named Attack, and that Viz and Funimation just went with "haki " and left it untranslated. Which just makes it… more confusing. And stupid.

I'm sure its perfectly natural and simple in Japanese, but the official English translations got befuddled over what to do with it and there was shitloads of forum debate.

Deicide

I think it should be translated, maybe with a capital "A" to make it more obvious. I mean, we have in fiction names like "The Force" or "Spirit" as power sources. I see no problem in calling it Ambition.

ponyjc

@Deicide:

I think it should be translated, maybe with a capital "A" to make it more obvious. I mean, we have in fiction names like "The Force" or "Spirit" as power sources. I see no problem in calling it Ambition.

Dont they use CAPs throughout the whole thing??

Deicide

@ponyjc:

Dont they use CAPs throughout the whole thing??

No, most people tend to use the original term "haki", instead of translating it. Stephen's an exception.

Edit: Oh, now I understood what you meant: normally they use all CAP's in the entire dialogue balloons. Well, they should translate it anyway and use some other form to distinguish it, like putting in quotations: "ambition".

Ivotas

@Deicide:

I think it should be translated, maybe with a capital "A" to make it more obvious. I mean, we have in fiction names like "The Force" or "Spirit" as power sources. I see no problem in calling it Ambition.

Lol, I've been also comparing Ambition to the Force a lot. So far I interpret it to be the Odaverse counterpart of it that allows you do to several multiple things. While the force can make you move things you don't touch, gives you superhuman strenght and speed, can make you fire those blue flashlights and/or play mind tricks Ambition seems to be able of knocking out weaklings, touching Logias, making weapons stronger, manipulating the body (Life Return) or predict moves (Mantra).

Another thing they'd both had in common if translated would lie in play on words. With the Force a scenario could look as follows:

A: How did you open that door?
B: By using the Force.
A: What force? You weren't even touching it. :blink:
B: Not brute force, THE Force!

And with Ambition we'd have:

A: How were you able to break that big door?
B: By using Ambition.
A: Ambition my ass, I've seen you use this frail little arrow.
B: Yeah, but it was infused with Ambition.
A: How can anybody infuse ambition into an arrow?
B: I'm not talking about about this kind of ambition but THE Ambition.

Well yeah, I'm not really good with word plays in English but I hope I've got the point across. There is some wtf moments that actually would only work if the term got translated. In fact, the situation where Luffy and Margaret spoke about Ambition and arrows would be such an scenario. Even if there is not a ideal direct translation I'm quite sure that the scene loses something if the term remains untranslated.

I mean, wasn't it said that there's no ideal translation for the original counterpart of Rayleights nickname "Dark King"? Yet nobody seemed to have this much of a problem with it to call him Mei Ou (sp?). Well anyways, I just wanted to add my two cents on that matter. Not like some harm is done if someone says Haki.^^

SGRaaize

That's great, been a fan of your work even before I knew what a forum or a IRC channel was

Greg

Y'know…If they wanted to be 'cool' and make it have an 'awesome' name in English that also works they could call it 'Drive'. Put that in BB's mouth in Jaya and it makes just as much sense albeit sounding 'cool'. It's an acceptable synonym and it's just as ambiguous. And if they didn't want to sound 'awesome' they could use 'Spirit'. Imagine that?

BB: I thought that bounty seemed low for a kid with that much Spirit.

My only beef with that would be it isn't as...proper?....as the term comes off in Japanese. At least at first when he used kanji. Not something you usually hear which Oda chose on purpose which is why I'm personally a fan of 'Ambition'. It completely hits you off-guard.

Wow. Thread derailed. My bad.

stephen is coming back. Just look in the mirror and repeat that five times before going out the door in the morning and you could kill a silverback gorilla with your bare hands.

stephen

ability, action, activity, agility, alertness, bang, birr, bounce, capability, capacity, dash, drive, dynamism, endurance, enterprise, exercise, fire, force, get-up-and-go, go, hardiness, healthiness, intensity, juice, kick, liveliness, lustiness, might, motion, moxie, muscle, nimbleness, pep, pith, potency, puissance, punch, push, quickness, snap, sock, soundness, starch, steam, strength, tuck, urgency, vehemence, vim, vitality, well-being, zing, zip

Personally I like "puissance" and "moxie." Shanks is clearly one puissant son of a bitch.

Obviously yes, the term needs to be capitalized to send the proper message, not that it'll help Viz and the scanlators since they use all-caps comic fonts. I also learned a long time ago not to pay attention to people who extrapolate complex theories because all it succeeds in doing is confusing themselves and being wrong. People will say crazy stuff and it's not really my problem if they're interpreting things wrong.

BatDan

I'm still going with Funimation's "other" name "Spirit" (first seen when Luffy used the Haoushoku Haki and was translated as "Conquerer's Spirit")

It sounds the most natural.

SGRaaize

Aura also works, I like Spirit, Aura or Determination
Just don't name it Haki, ffs

Retsudo

I like spirit as well. Maybe willpower too.

I think I like aura the most though, even though it probably isn't the closest translation.

Silverblade

The Bang of a Conquering King
The Zing of a Conquering King

Damn it all if translating isn't one of the most fun things in the world.

Sakonosolo

Hubba Hubba Zoot Zoot.

JERK DISEASE

Mojo.
…............

Retsudo

Mojo of Dominance?

silvers

Definitely Mojo

Zkaiser

Not to cockjock Greg but, Drive is too fucking cool to not be used. Drive is to Ambition as Sogeking is to Usopp.

Zach Logan

@Zkaiser:

Not to cockjock Greg but, Drive is too fucking cool to not be used. Drive is to Ambition as Sogeking is to Usopp.

Dammit…I agree...there goes "Willbition Haki Powers"...

Big_Bad_Lith

Drive?
(tries it out)
"Conqueror's Drive… Drive of the King... Emperor's Drive... King's Drive... "

idk, I really really WANT it to sound cool, but I'm not sure...

"we empower our arrows with Drive..."
hmm...