Not over yet. we are now discussing if Buggy can split his boogers and make them fly around the room… I say he can't.
Chapter 526 "Adventure in the Great Prison" Discussion
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Not over yet. we are now discussing if Buggy can split his boogers and make them fly around the room… I say he can't.
I agree, since boogers technically aren't part of his body, but a secretion that has been produced by his body
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So uh. Regarding this Buggy handcuff thing. I cringe to bring it up again esp. since I wasn't a part of it BUT I got to thinking about something the other day.
When you are touched by Seastone, you lose your ability to use your powers at your will correct?
Well isn't it possible that even if he were fitted with Seastone cuffs, Buggy just had someone tear his hands off for him?
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So uh. Regarding this Buggy handcuff thing. I cringe to bring it up again esp. since I wasn't a part of it BUT I got to thinking about something the other day.
When you are touched by Seastone, you lose your ability to use your powers at your will correct?
Well isn't it possible that even if he were fitted with Seastone cuffs, Buggy just had someone tear his hands off for him?
Hmh yeah I think you're right.
It was the same thing in Arlongpark with Luffy..He was in the ocean but Nami's sister held his head above the water,right? -
That is assuming the seastones work the exact same way water does.
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That is assuming the seastones work the exact same way water does.
Hmh but they surely do(?)
Didn't Coby explain that those seastone-coated-ships resemble the energy of the sea?Because of this we can assume seastone=water. -
Wasn't it furthermore said that seastone is something like the solid and concentrated form of water (in terms of its effect on DF users)? I thought Smoker said something along those lines back then in the cage.
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Well isn't it possible that even if he were fitted with Seastone cuffs, Buggy just had someone tear his hands off for him?
Someone mentioned something similar back at the beginning of the discussion last week (urr, two weeks ago), but not quite that. I suppose it would be possible. The thing you have to question is whether or not his splitting apart is a natural (DF) or willed (trained) reflex. I remember we all had the argument once about the logia's and their turning you into your element when attacked unaware, but can the same be said for Buggy's? If not, wouldn't having his arm ripped off actually rip his arm off were his DF powers cuff-sealed? I don't think getting his powers back right after that would help him much either. On the other hand (hurr-hurr), if yes, then that would be a great way to escape for him (always), as long as it gets explained!
Wasn't it furthermore said that seastone is something like the solid and concentrated form of water (in terms of its effect on DF users)? I thought Smoker said something along those lines back then in the cage.
He said that the stone is still a mystery, but you could "think of it" as the solid form of the sea. Chapter 169 for your referencing needs.
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i was wondering if there was shonen jump this week
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Someone mentioned something similar back at the beginning of the discussion last week (urr, two weeks ago), but not quite that. I suppose it would be possible. The thing you have to question is whether or not his splitting apart is a natural (DF) or willed (trained) reflex. I remember we all had the argument once about the logia's and their turning you into your element when attacked unaware, but can the same be said for Buggy's? If not, wouldn't having his arm ripped off actually rip his arm off were his DF powers cuff-sealed? I don't think getting his powers back right after that would help him much either. On the other hand (hurr-hurr), if yes, then that would be a great way to escape for him (always), as long as it gets explained!
He said that the stone is still a mystery, but you could "think of it" as the solid form of the sea. Chapter 169 for your referencing needs.
I consider it to be Buggys natural state. Just as Luffy can be stretched against his will Buggy can be chopped up against his. Just look at the latest chapter where he gets split in 2. He gets split from behind without possibly being able to see it (I'm assuming this since his face is split down the middle jsut as the rest of his body.)
As a reflex it would have to be ALOT more complicated for buggy to decide how to split then for a logia to just become untouchable. I really don't think you can reflex something like that. It's either a concious decition or any cutting damage splits him without him haveing to bother at all. IMO.
What the…? Holy smurf am I slow! Until this statement of yours I never even realized that an octopus is actually serving octopusballs. Talk about not seeing the forest because of too many trees. facepalm
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As a reflex it would have to be ALOT more complicated for buggy to decide how to split then for a logia to just become untouchable. I really don't think you can reflex something like that. It's either a concious decition or any cutting damage splits him without him haveing to bother at all. IMO.
I'm more inclined to agree, except for this:
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[/hide]@2pac: No JUMP this week.
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I never said that he couldn't also make concious decitions. If he had taken the hit from luffys arm ther it would have been blunt damage anyway so he wouldn't have split by reflex (if he is able to).
What the…? Holy smurf am I slow! Until this statement of yours I never even realized that an octopus is actually serving octopusballs. Talk about not seeing the forest because of too many trees. facepalm
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If he had taken the hit from Luffys arm their it would have been blunt damage anyway so he wouldn't have split by reflex.
Well I was saying I am inclined to agree. Luffy does "scythe", which is (I assume) meant to cut or imitate cutting, so I figured if Buggy could seperate by natural reflex he would not have needed to do that emergency escape. And in any case I don't see how his Devil's Fruit would know the difference between a cutting object and a blunt object in terms of natural reflex. I mean if you think about it, a cutting object is just a honed and extremely fine "blunt" object. Though that could just be arguing semantics.
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problem with the above deducing imo is…that we need to ask ourselves...can Ace be harmed with stone cuffs on?
And judging be the beating he got I guess he can...so the natural defense given to him by Logia fruit is gone...so is the natural defence of buggy as well?
I think yes...
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@Don:
could you pls show me on which sbs this was stated,never heard he could be THAT small:wassat:
Sorry, I just looked it up and I was misremembering. It was in volume 12 at the end. The reader asks a question about how small Buggy can split himself up, and then mentions something about growing out his (the reader's) hair.
Oda's actual response was "Buggy eh? Well I'll just say, into big chunks. Too small and he'd lose control of himself. But that aside, since you've been growing your hair, why don't you enter the cool hair contest that came up earlier?"
So … yeah. I was misremembering. Buggy really can only do big chunks, or else he loses control, apparently. So, smaller pieces WOULD be an upgrade, as opposed to teh large pieces merely being his preference.
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Well I was saying I am inclined to agree. Luffy does "scythe", which is (I assume) meant to cut or imitate cutting, so I figured if Buggy could seperate by natural reflex he would not have needed to do that emergency escape. And in any case I don't see how his Devil's Fruit would know the difference between a cutting object and a blunt object in terms of natural reflex. I mean if you think about it, a cutting object is just a honed and extremely fine "blunt" object. Though that could just be arguing semantics.
Just to make it clear: by natural reflex you mean the ability is inherent in the power given by the DF as opposed to trained reflex a la logia (turning untouchable)?
The difference between a cut and a blunt hit would be that the cut starts to open up and divide the tissue because of the accute angle of the object. rhe blunt hit does crushing damage instead.
It is my belief that Buggys fruit apart from making him able to seperate himself at will also prevents the unvolitary dividing of his flesh to cause injury (as a natural reflex that most likely can't be prevented by submerging in water or seastone).
@blue-san:problem with the above deducing imo is…that we need to ask ourselves...can Ace be harmed with stone cuffs on?
And judging be the beating he got I guess he can...so the natural defense given to him by Logia fruit is gone...so is the natural defence of buggy as well?
I think yes...
Would Luffys natural stretchyness be gone if he was cuffed in seastone? (I'm asking this because I'm not totally convinced seastone=submerged in water)
What I'm suggesting is that Buggys ability to be parted against his will is something that doesn't need to be trained (just like Luffy didn't need to train to be able to stretch) unlike logias who have to controll their forms.
What the…? Holy smurf am I slow! Until this statement of yours I never even realized that an octopus is actually serving octopusballs. Talk about not seeing the forest because of too many trees. facepalm
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I consider it to be Buggys natural state. Just as Luffy can be stretched against his will Buggy can be chopped up against his. Just look at the latest chapter where he gets split in 2. He gets split from behind without possibly being able to see it (I'm assuming this since his face is split down the middle jsut as the rest of his body.)
As a reflex it would have to be ALOT more complicated for buggy to decide how to split then for a logia to just become untouchable. I really don't think you can reflex something like that. It's either a concious decition or any cutting damage splits him without him haveing to bother at all. IMO.
Hm, good point here. Makes pretty much sense. I guess I'll take that theory.
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So you are basically seperating logia reflex from paramecia one…
Perhaps that could work because of : some of the ouns when luffy hits smoker and Ace and doesnt just go through...
But it all comes crushing down when Kizaru is hit by mister Apoo...Idk its a tough nut to crack thats for sure but I for one think there is the same poo.
When Ace gets the seastone cuffs he can be hurt unlike before... (with normal attacks)
And same for buggy, when he gets sea stone cuffs he can be cut and will bleed...thats my guess -
But it all comes crushing down when Kizaru is hit by mister Apoo…
Hmm? Why? Can you clearify please?
some of the ouns when luffy hits smoker and Ace and doesnt just go through…
By the way I consider the Ace & Smoker diner scene to be for comidic purposes only and have no impact on the reflex discussion whatsoever.
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Hate to ask this stupid question all the time, but is there a chapter this week or not?
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problem with the above deducing imo is…that we need to ask ourselves...can Ace be harmed with stone cuffs on?
And judging be the beating he got I guess he can...so the natural defense given to him by Logia fruit is gone...so is the natural defence of buggy as well?
I think yes...
Not necessarily, if Luffy stays rubbery while immersed in water as was shown in Arlong arc, then he should be just as invulnerable of bullets and punches as he is normally. Granted his strength was gone so he would not be able to doge or fight back. and he could be easily cut up. By his reactions that we seen so far, Luffy in seastone handcuffs would be barely able to move/walk, unlike Robin that seemed just fine when she was handcuffed. Maybe its all defendant on type of DF power. I was also thinking that with Luffy staying rubbery all the time if he had seastone handcuffs put on someone else could just forcefully pluck his hands out of the cufs since his hands could still strech and be flexible.
With Buggy immunity to cuts I don't know how that would work if he was handcuffed with seastone. Maybe he could pre-split his wrists and get out of the cuffs or someone else could cut off his hands, and with cuffs off his power would allow him to reattach them back? Would his whole body be affected even if the seastone touched a separated piece of his body or just that piece ? I guess just have to wait and see.
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problem with the above deducing imo is…that we need to ask ourselves...can Ace be harmed with stone cuffs on?
And judging be the beating he got I guess he can...so the natural defense given to him by Logia fruit is gone...so is the natural defence of buggy as well?
I think yes...
What natural defense ? We know that logias need to "activate" their power, whereas paramecias are always "on" (remember Luffy being stretched underwater at Arlong Park).
So the question could be: if Buggy was to be executed, Roger's way (blades) or Luffy's way (when Buggy tried to "guillotine" him), handcuffed in sea-stone, would he die ??? -
Hate to ask this stupid question all the time, but is there a chapter this week or not?
If there's an early leak, yes.
@The Buggy discussion: Has Buggy ever been stabbed? How would that turn out?
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@The Buggy discussion: Has Buggy ever been stabbed? How would that turn out?
I'd say stabbing would just be a form of cutting in Buggy's case.
"Sleep brings no rest to me; The shadows of the death my wakening eyes may never see surround my bed"-Emily Bronte(The Horrors of Sleep)
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What natural defense ? We know that logias need to "activate" their power, whereas paramecias are always "on" (remember Luffy being stretched underwater at Arlong Park).
So the question could be: if Buggy was to be executed, Roger's way (blades) or Luffy's way (when Buggy tried to "guillotine" him), handcuffed in sea-stone, would he die ???Paramecia's aren't always on. Some paramecias are always on.
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@VL7:
I'd say stabbing would just be a form of cutting in Buggy's case.
One reason I would bring up as to why he can be stabbed is as well know and its been recently mentioned of Luffy's and Buggy's DFs granting opposite immunities of each other (Luffy can be cut/can't be hurt physically and Buggy can't be cut/can be hurt physically). The exception here is that if a person is strong enough Luffy CAN be hurt physically whether it's haki or not but Garp, Sentomaru, Lucci, etc.(I think a few others) have hurt Luffy physically and he's commented on it or clearly shown how their attacks hurt.
So given that you have to be strong enough to either hurt Luffy physically or bypass his DF, I would say Buggy can be stabbed given the person doing the stabbing or possibly w/e used to do the stabbing.
I'd love to see a scene where Mihawk stabs Buggy in the head and kills him. Everyone would think Buggy's about to get up and make some joke until they see the blood leaking out his head and he doesn't get up…...
LMAO!
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Sentamarou is definitely using Haki and maybe Garp.
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Paramecia's aren't always on. Some paramecias are always on.
Yeah. It depends on the type of paramecia. In my mind I separated Paramecia into 3 sub groups:
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Mutation Types, like the Rubber and Chop Fruit, are always active.
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Creation types, such as the Bubble and Wax Fruits, must be activated.
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Affect/Effect type like Door Door Fruit and Law's ability, must be activated as well.
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I think the interesting question is whether Buggy's powers still protect him when he gets stabbed by something that isn't really a blade, like an icepick.
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The difference between a cut and a blunt hit would be that the cut starts to open up and divide the tissue because of the accute angle of the object.
We've seen (in fiction) someone punch through the stomach of another person, right? In One Piece, the only thing I can think of that is similar would be when Robin makes it look like she thrusts her arm through Vivi, but in reality just uses her hana-hana powers to make it appear so. In either case, it would appear that punching through someone is a fictional possibility if you are fast enough and strong enough. (Oh, and if you have enough "conviction". A dream would help too.)
So, given that, can someone punch through Buggy or would the "tearing of tissue" cause his body to seperate?
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I dunno really…he might... possibly...if... it's a longshot imo. but Buggy would in that case take all the blunt damage caused untill he tears so he would pretty much still have all his internal organs crushed.
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So…long story short Buggy might be able to have someone rip off his body parts and take off his cuffs. If it is explained, that is.
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What natural defense ? We know that logias need to "activate" their power, whereas paramecias are always "on" (remember Luffy being stretched underwater at Arlong Park).
So the question could be: if Buggy was to be executed, Roger's way (blades) or Luffy's way (when Buggy tried to "guillotine" him), handcuffed in sea-stone, would he die ???Logias need to activate their power…I see
So When ace got a bullet throuigh his heart by Auger he activated his Logia fruit in a milisecond...
When Apoo hits Kizaru he also activated his Logia ...?Now though possible I reather think Logias just have "natural" defence against any hits and like Gorlom mentioned and have I the only time we have seen Logia being hit by something or someone was when Luffy bumped at Smoker and Ace...and we believe that was the pun...so for comedic purposes more then anything else...
I also believe this defence logia and some of paramecia fruits (like buggy `s) wanishes when they get seastone cuffs...
人事を尽くして天命を待つ
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What was it Croc said about training his powers. Did he mention training it untill he reacted instantly to an attack and turned by reflex? or did I imagine/make that up?
and have I the only time we have seen Logia being hit by something or someone was when Luffy bumped at Smoker and Ace…
We have also sen Aokiji take attacks head on (even if he froze the areas that got attacked). Aokij and Kizaru seems to be favouring regeneration rather then phasing into their element to become untouchable.
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I thought the explanation was that they didn't know Buggy was a fruit user so he never got seastone cuffed.
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What was it Croc said about training his powers. Did he mention training it untill he reacted instantly to an attack and turned by reflex? or did I imagine/make that up?
He said nothing to that effect. He used his Desert Spada. Which Luffy was surprised by (due the scale and the facdt that he was almost cut apart), and Crocodile responded with that comment, which was followed by his quick sand attack.
So it'd be reaching quite a bit to assume he was referring to reacting instantly to attacks. Something he's done many times before and after that, and completly unrelated to what he did before and after that comment, along with Luffy's reaction.
I think that it seems clear that some logias have things automatically pass through, while others (Aokiji and Blackbeard) don't have that affect.
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ok made that up thanks codedtech. =)
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He said nothing to that effect. He used his Desert Spada. Which Luffy was surprised by (due the scale and the facdt that he was almost cut apart), and Crocodile responded with that comment, which was followed by his quick sand attack.
So it'd be reaching quite a bit to assume he was referring to reacting instantly to attacks. Something he's done many times before and after that, and completly unrelated to what he did before and after that comment, along with Luffy's reaction.
I think that it seems clear that some logias have things automatically pass through, while others (Aokiji and Blackbeard) don't have that affect.
Its actually a bit diffrent…passing through or not the thing is he ll reshape (Aokiji) BB is an obvious exception...
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The way I always thought of it with Ace was that since he knew that he was in a hostile environment when he confronted Blackbeard and his crew, his power to turn into fire was always on. Same with Kizaru. Both of them were in an environment where they knew that they were surrounded by enemies. Now, I thought I read about Crocodile saying that as well, but I haven't found it. Must have been a mistranslation or something. However, he never trusted anyone as he said. In his line of business, one would have to be on his toes.
If we're talking about Aokiji, then I think it was said before. His element is ice. Something such as that doesn't break so easily. So unlike Ace or Smoker, punching Aokiji won't cause ice cubes to fly everywhere.
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Now, I thought I read about Crocodile saying that as well, but I haven't found it. Must have been a mistranslation or something.
This is something that has been widely assumed by the fandom and in a way a situation where the fans answer a question that they themselves ask. "Are logias abilities always active or do they have to turn them on?" PPL conclude from what Croc said that logias must train themselves to have it as some defense mechanism even though he never really said that. I figure its okay to assume this until otherwise but it's unlikely Oda will ever directly bring that up.
Problem is kid with ice cream bumping in to Smoker, Luffy bumping in to Ace and Smoker, etc. make it hard for some ppl to interpret as a comedic scene or an exception to relay something else(I figure the kid with the ice cream was a way to show that Smoker had a heart). In the end I don't know how much it matters.
For me Aokiji is constantly both his logia state and his human state. Since ice is a solid I figure in a situation where Robin is attempting to break him in half his actual human body is bending up until the point where it would actually break and harm and then it switches to ice so to speak so that when his body does break in half it does no harm.
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The funny thing is that both Luffy and Buggy can trivialy escape from seastone handcufs, as when Luffy was underwater, he would still be rubber, so if someone else streches him, he could take off the cuffs, the same happens with buggy if someone else cuts his hands he will be able to reatach them afterwards.
XD, greg and kedavra said this too two pages ago… should look first and post later, but I thought that you were still talking about how Buggy could only split in one axis..
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I don't think Seastone and salt water are the same thing. In salt water, like in Arlong Park, he simply could'nt use his powers.
If he gets seastoned, he will lose his elasticity. I guess.
Seastone is for me, the same as Blackbeard. And I don't think Blackbeard would leave Luffy extending by touching him. That would be useless, since Luffy can still use his attack, for he's not weakened when touched by him.
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When pushing against the bars in Crocodile's cell, Luffy's face was still stretching.
Being exposed to kairouseki has the exact same effect as being submerged in water.
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And when Ener was being trapped by Wiper, he didn't got that reflex we're talking about. Even though he saw it coming right in front of him.
Maybe it depends of the quantity, the "purity", the ability and some things like that… In this case, debating is useless ><
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If he gets seastoned, he will lose his elasticity. I guess.
I don't agree; I'm going under the belief that it's exactly how it was with Robin (i.e. she became extremely weakened so she couldn't use her power) and with Luffy himself at Arlong park (being able to stretch still but not under his own physical power).
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I don't think Seastone and salt water are the same thing. In salt water, like in Arlong Park, he simply could'nt use his powers.
I just want to point out the salt in the water is irrelevant. DF users lose their power in any body of water. meaning tapwater in a bathtub will paralyse them as well.
If you dont believe me go to the main site and search the SBS for crocodile+showerAnd when Ener was being trapped by Wiper, he didn't got that reflex we're talking about. Even though he saw it coming right in front of him
The general assumption is that people submerged and seastoned lose the concious controll over their power (which is why Luffy can still be stretched by OTHER people) and that Enel has to will becoming lightning to be untouchable. So technically Enel still has the abilities of lightning he can just not use them while touched seastone.
@Denimjo:I don't agree; I'm going under the belief that it's exactly how it was with Robin (i.e. she became extremely weakened so she couldn't use her power) and with Luffy himself at Arlong park (being able to stretch still but not under his own physical power).
But… she had enough power to hold on to the bridge by her teeth to prevent Mr S&M from dragging her along. Most people just generally think seastone prevents the concious use of powers so hana hana fruit powers that need to be activated are unusable while powers that are allways on like Luffys can be abused by others.
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Sorry to disturb your discussion…but i wanted to ask wether there's a chapter this week,or not.
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Hmm, Buggys ability seems damn weak now if I think about it.
Oda said that he looses control at one point(when going into smaller sections)
So if Zoro would just go at him with the intention of chopping the shit out of him…he'd win.
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i don't know who ener is but i suggest that enel and other logia users lose their elemental power completely when they are seastoned or fall into the water. paramecia users on the other hand keep their abnormal bodies, while they only lose the strenght to handle their abilities themselves.
imo ability-pass-throughs are triggered by their user, just look up the ace-smoker-luffy-incident mentioned before, but i also acknowledge the normal-body-till-damage-triggers-logia-theory.
of course a solid element isn't meant to let anything pass through naturally so there normally isn't any passing through with aokijis ability unless you break him.
AND, i can't say this often enough, the very nature of gravity itself is NOT letting anything pass through it… i don't see why so many ppl don't get this or are confused because of it.
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