So what is this suppose to prove? It happened after all that Uchiha were traitors planning something BS was established. I really don't see what this changes
Naruto Thread IV
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So what is this suppose to prove? It happened after all that Uchiha were traitors planning something BS was established. I really don't see what this changes
Damni I wasn't trying to change anything.
I wasn't proving anything, I was agreeing with Outerspec that it was suspicious that no Uchiha were seen. Also? You are overlooking what I said earlier, that is, why would the Uchiha allow the kyubi to ransack the village and not help out? They were as in much danger as everyone else, not to mention they they formed the Police Force..yet we didn't see any of them. But on the other hand why would the elders suspect the Uchiha, and treat them more harshley than they regularly do, if the Uchiha did indeed help out?
I hope you're not suggesting that the reason they were missing was because of the fact that they were planning a coup, because that happened as a result of them being quarantined after the attack.
and what's up with the "BS" statement? Do you even know what I'm trying to say?
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@ArSoNiSt:
I see what you mean. I too have asked that question. I mean, we even get a snapshot of most of the other clans standing alongside the 3rd Hokage when they were trying to take down the fox, but no Uchiha's were shown.
TO me, I think that they were missing…it would probably explain why the Elders were so quick to isolate them when the kyubi attacked. I mean it wouldn't make any sense for the Elders to quarantine the Uchihas when they actually helped during the attack...that wouldn't make any sense.
Yeah, the Uchihas apparent absence during the Kyubi attack would help lead to suspicion against them. It seems Itachi's and Sasuke's parents were up to something that night. Before the Kyubi was summoned into the village they were out somewhere. And as you stated during the entire flashback not one Uchiha was seen fighting. That's crazy because a prominent clan like the Uchiha should have definitely been out there on the forefront.
Either they were all shopping for groceries at the most inconvenient of times or they were up to something else, most likely devious.
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Sorry. I assumed you were trying to make a point. And BS is in regards to the fact that the whole "the uchiha clan was really traitorous" was kind of BS on Kishi's part
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Actually, I'm going to retract my statement on none of the Uchiha being there during the Kyubi attack. One could have easily enough been there as any one of the random ninja shown but not close enough to identify.
But Kishi did show us that Itachi's parents were "out" and Itachi had a suspicious feeling about things. That was obviously done on purpose.
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I've got a question? Why the hell wasn't Sasuke killed after the Uchiha situation, if they were killing everyone else anyway? Its not like it'd be a huge challenge to get rid of one little kid. Or Itachi for that matter, since I can't see Danzou upholding a bargain, and he seems more likely to stab Itachi in the back after he's killed the other Uchihas, seeing as how the Mangekyo sharingan techniques supposedly took a lot of chakra, and he must have used them quite a few times to take out his whole clan, even if Madara helped him.
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I've got a question? Why the hell wasn't Sasuke killed after the Uchiha situation, if they were killing everyone else anyway? Its not like it'd be a huge challenge to get rid of one little kid. Or Itachi for that matter, since I can't see Danzou upholding a bargain, and he seems more likely to stab Itachi in the back after he's killed the other Uchihas, seeing as how the Mangekyo sharingan techniques supposedly took a lot of chakra, and he must have used them quite a few times to take out his whole clan, even if Madara helped him.
While Hiruzen (the 3rd Hokage) was alive and in the village he kept an eye on Sasuke and made sure Danzou and any of the other elders didn't do anything to Sasuke. Plus, as insurance Itachi warned if anything happened to Sasuke he'd leak everything he knew about Konoha to enemy countries.
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Why would Danzou listen? Hell, why did the Third even let it take place in the first place. And again, why didn't they just kill Itachi before he could leave
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I remember a thing that can be a huge plothole.
It's about the first Nine Tails's jinchuriki and Hashirama Senju's wife. Kishimoto wrote that she turned a jinchuriki after Hashirama's battle against Madara and passed the tailed beast to Kushina.
So if is it, how can Kinkaku and Ginkaku have being swallowed by the Nine Tails and survived if Mito (Hashirama's wife) was the jinchuriki at the time?
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show me a series that's perfectly planned out from beginning to end, never failing to foreshadow and I'll be glad to read it, even one piece makes mistakes here (Sabo) but Naruto definitely threw way too much on the plate starting at the gokage meeting, I mean we had all the worlds top pwoers shown to us at one time, it would have been nice if they had done it more like one piece different arcs you here about them, meet one or two before, I mean we literally knew nothing of the mizukage or onoki, hell I still don't know the mizukage by her actual name
EDIT: now I remember Fullmetal alchemist was planned from beginning to end flawlessly
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show me a series that's perfectly planned out from beginning to end, never failing to foreshadow and I'll be glad to read it, even one piece makes mistakes here (Sabo)
Sabo's presence in Luffy's life makes sense, doesn't contradict anything, puts perspective onto a lot of things concerning Luffy and Ace, (like why he was so damn determined to save him) and WAS foreshadowed in advance but it was incredibly subtle.
Hell, the second we knew Luffy and Ace weren't blood brothers that door was opened for someone else significant in Luffy's life to be there. Not like he mentioned Ace to the crew before he showed up in Alabasta. Or Garp or Shanks. Why would he ever have mentioned his long "dead" brother?
Plus, Sabo's going to come back later in the story and be incredibly important.
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@RobbyBevard:
Sabo's presence in Luffy's life makes sense, doesn't contradict anything, puts perspective onto a lot of things concerning Luffy and Ace, (like why he was so damn determined to save him) and WAS foreshadowed in advance but it was incredibly subtle.
Hell, the second we knew Luffy and Ace weren't blood brothers that door was opened.
I'm just saying that I would have expected him to drop the hint sooner than the war for such an inspirational character to his life, but at least he did foreshadow, it's not like I'm saying he didn't just that he usually does a better job, kind of making me think the idea was new to him
but regardless like you said it was pulled off flawlessly, can't wait to see him!!!
and guys like I said if anyone knows a perfect plot manga like FMA I'd love to read it, I'm a big shouen guy cause I love fights but nothing gets you more railed up then a Great plot to a story
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I'm just saying that I would have expected him to drop the hint sooner than the war for such an inspirational character to his life,
If there'd been any hint at all of Luffy having another sibling sooner than that, the tension would have dropped right out of the war. We'd know Ace wasn't his only brother, wwhich would cut into the drama and loss, and we'd be expecting the third to show up at any moment.
and guys like I said if anyone knows a perfect plot manga like FMA I'd love to read it, I'm a big shouen guy cause I love fights but nothing gets you more railed up then a Great plot to a story
Lone Wolf and Cub.
Nausicaa. -
I'm just saying that I would have expected him to drop the hint sooner than the war for such an inspirational character to his life, but at least he did foreshadow, it's not like I'm saying he didn't just that he usually does a better job, kind of making me think the idea was new to him
but regardless like you said it was pulled off flawlessly, can't wait to see him!!!
and guys like I said if anyone knows a perfect plot manga like FMA I'd love to read it, I'm a big shouen guy cause I love fights but nothing gets you more railed up then a Great plot to a story
FMA?perfect plot?:wassat:
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I can't answer everyone posts today so i will just do a few.(Sleepy)
@S.C. I only been claiming that Kareem got owned really. He has yet to respond and he said he would.
@Sanji MGS hit the U.S in 2004 NOV in and Japan in Dec http://www.gamespot.com/ps2/action/metalgearsolid3/similar.html?mode=versions Sasuke Flashbacks started in June of 04. its chapter 219. The concept of double agent wasn't made by hideo. Hideo and Kishi both used it good. Ok i will post this for the last damn time.
Itachi being good was clearly planned.
Itachi and his father talking about getting in the ANBU on a special mission
Father goes Apeshit over the so called (Villian) wanting to attend Sasuke academy instead of get a crucial part of this.(Also take note of everytime the father talks its about the Uchia clan not the whole village http://manga.animea.net/naruto-chapter-220-page-17.html
Again Father and him talking about the connections and getting mad he doing jobs for the leafs instead . I mean also has 2nd evil bad guy stare from his dad. Why would his dad be so pissed at him helping out His own village? http://manga.animea.net/naruto-chapter-221-page-16.html
Itachi basically telling Sasuke he going to hate him for wat he will do "Even if it means we hate each other". http://manga.animea.net/naruto-chapter-221-page-20.html
Shisui was hired to spy on Itachi and Itachi because he doing missions for the Hokage and missing secret Uchia meetings. Why the hell would they be mad at Itachi for missing meeting when HIS FATHER WAS GOING APESHIT OVER HIM GOING INTO ANBU RUN BY THE HOKAGE. ISN't that wat he wanted? "IF you betray the clan" http://manga.animea.net/naruto-chapter-222-page-19.html Lets see the only thing Itachi has done to warrant a secret follower so far is abide by the Hokage/Elders mission. Why would they get so mad. Isn't it their village too? oh wait.
He mocks the guys about talking about the clan the clan all the time http://manga.animea.net/naruto-chapter-222-page-21.html
Itachi father tells him to stop Itachi said "NOTING STRANGE, I AM CARRYING OUT MY DUTY" WTF wat duty http://manga.animea.net/naruto-chapter-222-page-22.html Yep Itachi and his father doesn't understand because he thinks he is refering to his Duty to the Uchia and asks "So why didn't you come last night to the meeting" Can anyone explain wat Duty he was refering to. oh wait
Mother tells Sasuke the clan is in bad position. What bad position? and why did is father go apeshit over him not getting into the ANBU? You know the group who gets to be around the Hokage. Spy??
Even Sasuke calls his test his capacity lie crap http://www.mangareader.net/93-229-17/naruto/chapter-224.html Why didn't he go test his capacity on the Hokage? You know the big dog. He in the ANBU now. He close to him to find a opening. oh wait because it was complete BS.Ok after reading that u might say Madara was a asspull through even if wat u say is true. It would be if Itachi doesn't mention this to Sasuke http://www.mangareader.net/93-230-4/naruto/chapter-225.html
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Your posts are unreadable Juju, try to give them a form because it's ugly as hell.
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Holy crap that post was how hell would look like. Haha :D
And according to Sabo… I don't really know, of course he wasn't planned for (highly probability) but I guess it was a fun add. I can't wait for his return.
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I remember a thing that can be a huge plothole.
It's about the first Nine Tails's jinchuriki and Hashirama Senju's wife. Kishimoto wrote that she turned a jinchuriki after Hashirama's battle against Madara and passed the tailed beast to Kushina.
So if is it, how can Kinkaku and Ginkaku have being swallowed by the Nine Tails and survived if Mito (Hashirama's wife) was the jinchuriki at the time?
The Kyuubi swallowed them up before the battle in the VoftE.
While Hiruzen (the 3rd Hokage) was alive and in the village he kept an eye on Sasuke and made sure Danzou and any of the other elders didn't do anything to Sasuke. Plus, as insurance Itachi warned if anything happened to Sasuke he'd leak everything he knew about Konoha to enemy countries.
The only thing that stopped Danzou from killing Sasuke was Itachi leaking top secret information to enemy countries. Hiruzen was a weak leader who couldn't stand up to his counsellors. If he didn't manage to stop them from proceeding with the massacre, he wouldn't have been able to stop them from killing Sasuke. Plus, after the massacre Danzou probably have already transplanted Shisui's eye, so he could use it on Hiruzen and the counsellors.
Then again, Danzou still sent Sai to assassinate Sasuke. So I guess that Itachi's threats did not scare him, lol.
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a perfect plot manga like FMA
FMA didn't have a perfect plot, it had a great premise. Overall to me, the plot wasn't something that can stand the test of time, and it was pretty average in execution(though nicely researched). It was good. Nothing too extraordinary though(Though early chapters showed more potential ).
If you want a manga like that read Devilman, most of Monster or most 20th Century Boy's and Lone Wolf Cub(slow at the start)
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*insert random these
Naruto and Sasuke will have a Fusion just like Vegeta and Son Goku…
Sasuke is becoming the eyes(uchiha) and naruto becomes the physical power(senju)
What do you think? Is Kishi going to drop to this level(because it doesnt fit in the naruverse) -
*insert random these
Naruto and Sasuke will have a Fusion just like Vegeta and Son Goku…
Sasuke is becoming the eyes(uchiha) and naruto becomes the physical power(senju)
What do you think? Is Kishi going to drop to this level(because it doesnt fit in the naruverse)I've already predicted this, it's not just this either there's many things oreshadowing this
Naruto has the yang charka of the nine tailed fox, which gives life to things, hence why yammamoto's wood grew:ninja:
The Yin Release (陰遁, Inton) techniques, based on the spiritual energy that governs the imagination, can be used to create form out of nothingness.
Yin charka is like an illusions leading me to believe that sasuke's final ability that his EMS gives him will be yin related
Yin-Yang release is what made the sage so powerful, he could make things and breath life into them and could use ANY ninjutsu they are the two halfs yin and yang, the yin yang is how I'm guessing pain made his summons
oh yes and expect Naruto's ability to give life to things as an easy way to beat or perhaps bring back zombies
And They represent both good and evil, and are the last of the two clans that he created bringing them together would start the whole cycle over
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Hey guys, does anyone remember Ninja Tank? It was a fake spoiler created before the Sasuke's fight with the Raikage finished, where Madara saved Sasuke by driving a tank. I personally think that would have been a good idea. Because it would've been stupid but it wouldn't be anymore stupid than anything else that was going on at that time in the manga. And it would've been the kind of "so stupid it's awesome" rather than the "so stupid it's infuriating" we usually see in Part 2 of the series.
My Hero Academia is my favorite manga series right now. At least so long as the high of its greatness remains. United States of Smash.
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@Kareem:
Hey guys, does anyone remember Ninja Tank? It was a fake spoiler created before the Sasuke's fight with the Raikage finished, where Madara saved Sasuke by driving a tank. I personally think that would have been a good idea. Because it would've been stupid but it wouldn't be anymore stupid than anything else that was going on at that time in the manga. And it would've been the kind of "so stupid it's awesome" rather than the "so stupid it's infuriating" we usually see in Part 2 of the series.
You mean….the Tobi Tank?
sigh I miss Tobi. And NO, he is not the same person as Madara. Tobi died long ago...:cwy:
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Tobi Tank
Kabuto Kopter
Orochimaru Osprey
Kisame Cruiser
Jiraiya JetpackAll come together to form
!
BBnGdN78roQ&autoplay=1
! THE ZABUZA ZORD -
Wait.. the… 2th blue ranger is called "Jorgito"?? That's like being called literaly "Little George".
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That was the last PR season I watched before I quit.
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I don't know if there is any continuity discussion going on here that I am interrupting but if that is the case my apologies (I am too lazy to read the last couple of pages.)
I would just like to say that I just started reading Naruto a week or two ago and I am surprised at how much I am enjoying myself (I am on chapter 112 where Gaara is about to fight Sasuke). I think this series comes off as being more exceptional then One Piece in the early chapters (and if I am to believe the general sentiment that I hear - OP catches up and surpasses it quickly in the later chapters.) In fact I think the Zabuza arc is probably the best shonen arc I have ever read of its, relatively short, length (in about the same amount of chapters Luffy and co where fighting Kuro in one of the most underwhelming arc in the series imo). The chunin exams have been strong and enjoyable if not incredibly exceptional (again, I believe the general consensus is that it's all downhill for Naruto after this arc - which does not bode well for the series imo).
I find Naruto to be only a so-so lead (damn he can be annoying - even if that is intentional it still sucks) and I think that there are other characters all around him that are vastly more interesting which would make for much better leads (Rock Lee and Kakashi being at the top of the list). All in all I would say that, even if it is true that Naruto goes too shit after the arc that I am currently on and stays that way for the next 400 chapters, the first 14 or so books are worth getting for being some of the best shonen material I have ever read (easily on par if not surpassing anything Togashi has ever written) .
I would also like to mention that a couple of years back I tried to watch the anime Naruto and made it about 100 episodes in so all the material I have read so far is not exactly new to me but I feel the manga is a vastly better experience (save for the Rock Lee v. Gaara fight.)
first-ish impressions
read.
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@Badass:
sigh I miss Tobi. And NO, he is not the same person as Madara. Tobi died long ago…:cwy:
Thats the worst death of the series that one.
Beats Jiriayas and Asumas.How could he die off screen like that ;-;
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I don't know if there is any continuity discussion going on here that I am interrupting but if that is the case my apologies (I am too lazy to read the last couple of pages.)
I would just like to say that I just started reading Naruto a week or two ago and I am surprised at how much I am enjoying myself (I am on chapter 112 where Gaara is about to fight Sasuke). I think this series comes off as being more exceptional then One Piece in the early chapters (and if I am to believe the general sentiment that I hear - OP catches up and surpasses it quickly in the later chapters.) In fact I think the Zabuza arc is probably the best shonen arc I have ever read of its, relatively short, length (in about the same amount of chapters Luffy and co where fighting Kuro in one of the most underwhelming arc in the series imo). The chunin exams have been strong and enjoyable if not incredibly exceptional (again, I believe the general consensus is that it's all downhill for Naruto after this arc - which does not bode well for the series imo).
I find Naruto to be only a so-so lead (damn he can be annoying - even if that is intentional it still sucks) and I think that there are other characters all around him that are vastly more interesting which would make for much better leads (Rock Lee and Kakashi being at the top of the list). All in all I would say that, even if it is true that Naruto goes too shit after the arc that I am currently on and stays that way for the next 400 chapters, the first 14 or so books are worth getting for being some of the best shonen material I have ever read (easily on par if not surpassing anything Togashi has ever written) .
I would also like to mention that a couple of years back I tried to watch the anime Naruto and made it about 100 episodes in so all the material I have read so far is not exactly new to me but I feel the manga is a vastly better experience (save for the Rock Lee v. Gaara fight.)
first-ish impressions
Reading this post is like taking a trip back in time. Maybe you'll turn out like the few and think 'Naruto' is still good when you catch up. Maybe you'll turn out like the many and think 'Naruto' is crap. I'm part of the few.
I look forward to your thoughts when you do catch up. ;)
Everything's Eventual…
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Thats the worst death of the series that one.
Beats Jiriayas and Asumas.How could he die off screen like that ;-;
Didn't Tobi die on screen? I always believed that he, together with the giant snake, sacrificed himself for Sasuke and took on Deidara's blast since they didn't have enough time to reach the tank.
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Didn't Tobi die on screen? I always believed that he, together with the giant snake, sacrificed himself for Sasuke and took on Deidara's blast since they didn't have enough time to reach the tank.
I don't remember, don't think Kishi ever showed how Sasuke vs Deidara ended, just that Sasuke survived.
THATS what happened and I won't let anyone tell me otherwise. It just ended, there weren't any bullshit asspulls to do with characters with no chakra summoning giant snakes in mere seconds. NO SIR.
…no sir...sigh
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Am I the only one who wants them to make a third naruto ultimate storm game so you can play as the kages and zombies? I think playing as Raikage would be the shit, he's so awesome, I'd actually like to play as onoki to, his powers seem pretty cool could see him being fun to play as
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If is for playing with Onoki and Forth Raikage to kick the shit out of Naruto, Sasuke and other annoying shithead, I'm with you.
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I don't know if there is any continuity discussion going on here that I am interrupting but if that is the case my apologies (I am too lazy to read the last couple of pages.)
I would just like to say that I just started reading Naruto a week or two ago and I am surprised at how much I am enjoying myself (I am on chapter 112 where Gaara is about to fight Sasuke). I think this series comes off as being more exceptional then One Piece in the early chapters (and if I am to believe the general sentiment that I hear - OP catches up and surpasses it quickly in the later chapters.) In fact I think the Zabuza arc is probably the best shonen arc I have ever read of its, relatively short, length (in about the same amount of chapters Luffy and co where fighting Kuro in one of the most underwhelming arc in the series imo). The chunin exams have been strong and enjoyable if not incredibly exceptional (again, I believe the general consensus is that it's all downhill for Naruto after this arc - which does not bode well for the series imo).
I find Naruto to be only a so-so lead (damn he can be annoying - even if that is intentional it still sucks) and I think that there are other characters all around him that are vastly more interesting which would make for much better leads (Rock Lee and Kakashi being at the top of the list). All in all I would say that, even if it is true that Naruto goes too shit after the arc that I am currently on and stays that way for the next 400 chapters, the first 14 or so books are worth getting for being some of the best shonen material I have ever read (easily on par if not surpassing anything Togashi has ever written) .
I would also like to mention that a couple of years back I tried to watch the anime Naruto and made it about 100 episodes in so all the material I have read so far is not exactly new to me but I feel the manga is a vastly better experience (save for the Rock Lee v. Gaara fight.)
first-ish impressions
You might have people bash you for this, mostly for the Togashi thing, but I'm really with you on this. I loved part 1, especially the first 139 chapters. I also really liked the Sasuke Retrieval arc, and I don't get why other people don't like it. If Part 2 of Naruto were as good as Part 1, I am very confident the series would have been one of my top 5 favorite manga ever. People tend to forget how good the early volumes of Naruto were when they bash the series. I consider Naruto underrated, as a whole on this forum. There is a lot to bash the series for but people sometimes ignore what was good in the series and that's a shame.
BTW Outerspec, I know I may have given the impression that I am one of the many on this forum who hate Naruto, but honestly I don't know where I fit. I can't really say that the series is good, but I'm not going to say it was bad. I have two good ways of expressing my opinion on Naruto.
1). There was a bit more stuff that I liked in Naruto vs. stuff I hated, but not nearly enough for me to really call this a good series.
2). When Masashi Kishimoto is on his game, He is on his game! Problem: He hasn't been on his game in a looong time.My Hero Academia is my favorite manga series right now. At least so long as the high of its greatness remains. United States of Smash.
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@RPG If you believe Kishi isn't a sexist then why are you arguing with me? This started when someone called Kishi a sexist and i said he wasn't.
Temari wasn't even Gaara bodyguard then. He wasn't a Kage.
@Chopperman I want to play has Raikage and Onooki too.Anyways what do you guys think Madara true plans are. We know he lies about everything. He fails to tell Sasuke that he was the one who attacked the village 16 years ago and made it seem he was just proteting the Uchia interest, but when he spoke to Naruto and gets called out to be a war mongol and doesn't want peace. He just says lol yea actually right. He likes to run around has Tobi, has arms made of Zetsu Goo. He just messes with everyone which is why i think he lied about certain things at the Kage meeting.
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This post is deleted!
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@RPG If you believe Kishi isn't a sexist then why are you arguing with me? This started when someone called Kishi a sexist and i said he wasn't.
Lol this is all you got left? Hahahaha wow. Guess that means it's time to wrap things up anyways since I'm just going to be treading old ground now and it's not like you are really capable of responding to any of my points.
Firstly, this whole shabang started when you basically said the Naruto series wasn't sexist in the sense that the women are treated/represented well. And Kareem never said Kishimoto was a sexist, he said the treatment of women was left to be desired (aka sexist acts such as women being basically pushed to the side and useless).
http://apforums.net/showpost.php?p=2182770&postcount=9569
http://apforums.net/showpost.php?p=2182799&postcount=9574After that, you were the one brought up if Kishimoto was a hater of women. I was just talking about the manga being overwhelmingly sexist. Which it is.
To which I responded that Naruto is a sexist manga, but I made it clear that Kishimoto is just unintentionally sexist.
http://apforums.net/showpost.php?p=2182883&postcount=9577
@RPGJay:Honestly I'm with Silence on this one. I don't think Kishimoto is trying to be sexist. I just think he doesn't know any better. He doesn't have the sort of seething contempt for women that Ohba of Death Note and Bakuman fame has. I'm just pointing out what Kishimoto does do to his women in this series: Follow a man and lack a dream, bland emotionless slate, or offpanel.
lol no wonder you can't grasp anything in Naruto if you can't even keep up with this debate. Though it is completely inconsequential if Kishimoto is sexist or not.
Let's make something very clear though: Just because Kishi comes off unintentionally sexist does not mean the Naruto series is any less sexist.
Regardless of intentions, women in the naturoverse are beings that are near useless, defined entirely by the men around them, lack any form of dreams or aspirations that don't involve or serve men, and bland and uninteresting.
I'm gonna call this a stopping point for me since you not only haven't listened to me or refuted any of my points but also outright dropped yours. If you still want to respond to me Juju to get the final word or whatever you're welcome to but I'm pretty much done trying to respond nicely.
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@RPG It seems you are right. I guess i hear Kishi a sexist so much i thought thats wat you are talking. Yes this debate is over and you proved your point.
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@Kareem:
You might have people bash you for this, mostly for the Togashi thing, but I'm really with you on this. I loved part 1, especially the first 139 chapters. I also really liked the Sasuke Retrieval arc, and I don't get why other people don't like it. If Part 2 of Naruto were as good as Part 1, I am very confident the series would have been one of my top 5 favorite manga ever. People tend to forget how good the early volumes of Naruto were when they bash the series. I consider Naruto underrated, as a whole on this forum. There is a lot to bash the series for but people sometimes ignore what was good in the series and that's a shame.
I actually think people tend to remember how good the early volumes were, and now that they're being delivered this current material it inclines them towards bashing the series. They remember Part 1 and look at Part 2, and then they wonder what the hell happened. Part 2 doesn't live up to the expectations Part 1 setup and that's the biggest problem for 'Naruto' right now. It's just not as good as it used to be.
BTW Outerspec, I know I may have given the impression that I am one of the many on this forum who hate Naruto, but honestly I don't know where I fit. I can't really say that the series is good, but I'm not going to say it was bad. I have two good ways of expressing my opinion on Naruto.
1). There was a bit more stuff that I liked in Naruto vs. stuff I hated, but not nearly enough for me to really call this a good series.
2). When Masashi Kishimoto is on his game, He is on his game! Problem: He hasn't been on his game in a looong time.Lol, I understand. You're just kind of stuck in limbo like Kakashi's father. The reason why I still like reading 'Naruto' is because I'm simply still interested in the inevitable Naruto vs. Sasuke fight and its conclusion. Will Kishi try to surprise us or will it be the same ol' Naruto wins you over with his speech motto? Isn't that what stories you like do? Keep you coming back not out of force habit, but because you're genuinely interested in future events.
There is much talk here about how good Naruto was in Part 1 and how Part 2 pales in comparison. You'll find many others will agree with this point here. I'm also hoping we'll see some more characters that were much better developed in Part 1 get some more fights and development in Part 2.
Anyways what do you guys think Madara true plans are. We know he lies about everything. He fails to tell Sasuke that he was the one who attacked the village 16 years ago and made it seem he was just proteting the Uchia interest, but when he spoke to Naruto and gets called out to be a war mongol and doesn't want peace. He just says lol yea actually right. He likes to run around has Tobi, has arms made of Zetsu Goo. He just messes with everyone which is why i think he lied about certain things at the Kage meeting.
Well, Madara has outlined 3 goals so far.
1.) To achieve perfection (something along the lines of a perfect body).
2.) To pit Naruto and Sasuke against each other to fulfill some destined fight.
3.) Revive the Juubi and put the entire world under hypnosis thus creating…peace.
I don't know what to think anymore when it comes to that guy.
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Sorry. I assumed you were trying to make a point. And BS is in regards to the fact that the whole "the uchiha clan was really traitorous" was kind of BS on Kishi's part
I think you sorta misunderstood why the Uchiha did what they did. Let's take a closer look at Madara's explanation:
The Senju and Uchiha were beefing for years, but after a lot of battles, both sides were tired of fighting and decided call a truce. Of course, only Madara was against it, but had no choice but to go along with his clan members' wishes.
Then Konoha was formed.
However, problems came up regarding who was going to be the leader…Hashirama got the title of Hokage by a landslide, seeing that everyone in the Land of Fire chose him. Madara tried tried to challenge Hashirama for the position, and also tried to get his clan to back him up...but they refused to help him, called him a war-monger and whatnot. It was after that Madara decided to leave the village, come back with the kyubi and attack the village, only to be stopped by the 1st Hokage.
The 2nd Hokage then created the Police Force as a means to keep an eye on the Uchiha in order to deter other Uchiha's from doing the same as Madara (By making the Police Force appear to be a sign of trust). Some of the Uchiha found out about the true purpose of the Police Force, and some even tried to follow Madara's footsteps, but they were too powerless to really be able to do anything by that time.
You have to take special note of that part because it was from here that the bad blood between Konoha and the Uchiha came about, and went on for years...Tobirama's reign, Hiruzen's reign and Minato's reign and Hiruzen's reign again. The Uchiha were never able to help govern the village because of what the 2nd did, and it was all of this that led to the Uchiha being disgruntled with Konoha.
Now to top off all of that, Madara attacked again with the fox, and the Elders suspected that it was an Uchiha behind it, and pushed the Uchiha to a corner of the village to be spied on even more, and this was what led to Itachi's father planning the coup.
So I think that you're wrong for saying that the Uchiha's doing what they did was BS for the reason being that the Uchiha from their point of view were mistreated, even though they didn't follow Madara. Every single one of them refused to help Madara try to overthrow Hashirama, yet Konoha was treating them this way.
I wouldn't call them "traitorous", because if we look at things from their point of view, Konoha betrayed them, seeing that after they kicked out their leader in favor of Konoha, Konoha still doesn't trust them as seen by the Police Force scam, and their quarantine in the corner of the village as a result of the second kyubi attack. It's more like "they had enough" or something like that
I think that the Uchiha doing a coup bit is legit. The Uchiha joined with the Sneju to form Konoha, Madara messed up the trust between the two clans which led to the 2nd Hokage doing what he did, which in turn made the Uchiha pissed at Konoha (Especially seeing that the Uchiha were kept out of governing affairs for decades) with being suspected of being behind the 2nd kyubi attack being the last straw, leading to the coup and (And the Uchiha massacre)
I'm not sure where the BS part is.
As for my complaints about Naruto, the only thing I really disliked that happened is pt2 is.....Madara. I hate him, and not because he's a douche bag, but because of the kind of stuff that Kishi is doing in order to make Madara some kind of villain:
*Having Madara live this long thanks to "special chakras" :blink:
*Kishi changing result of the battle between Madara and the Shodaime from "LOL HASHI BEAT ME PRETTY HARD" to "LOL I WILL SURVIVE" to "LOL I SURVIVED AND CAN SPAM MOKUTON". That didn't sit well with me at all. I could bear Madara surviving to an extent, but Madara saying that he fought the 1st to gain his powers and troll themis pretty ridiculous IMO.
*Madara having the Rinnegan in one eye socket and the Sharingan in the next?
Madara is like the Aizen of Naruto. Just like Aizen, Kishi has retconed some of the improtant parts of the story to have Madara seem super super super suerp powerful.
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And when was any of this, any at all (Besides the police force thing, but even that showed no indication that they might be traitors or that it was anything but a sign of respect), ever even hinted at before Madara's explanation? If it had been gradually uncovered, and preferably by someone who just happened to dig it up, it might've been better. But it came out of nowhere and was altogether kind of BS. ANd how does making them the police force make them any more under control then any other position? That was a crapshoot explanation in and of itself. Furthermore, why would they suspect an Uchiha did it, when all indications and all things from the story indicate that nobody had any clue why it happened, except maybe the third. It isn't good writing to make up such a major plotpoint from absolutely nowhere.
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@Kareem:
I loved part 1, especially the first 139 chapters. I also really liked the Sasuke Retrieval arc, and I don't get why other people don't like it. If Part 2 of Naruto were as good as Part 1, I am very confident the series would have been one of my top 5 favorite manga ever. People tend to forget how good the early volumes of Naruto were when they bash the series. I consider Naruto underrated, as a whole on this forum. There is a lot to bash the series for but people sometimes ignore what was good in the series and that's a shame.
Am I the only one on the planet who really didn't like Part 1 for the most part? In my opinion the early volumes (Zabuza, Chuunin Exam) were overrated and lots of Part 2 is underrated.
I feel so alone.
I agree with the assessment that one could not really call Naruto a "good" series overall though.
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I don't know if there is any continuity discussion going on here that I am interrupting but if that is the case my apologies (I am too lazy to read the last couple of pages.)
I would just like to say that I just started reading Naruto a week or two ago and I am surprised at how much I am enjoying myself (I am on chapter 112 where Gaara is about to fight Sasuke). I think this series comes off as being more exceptional then One Piece in the early chapters (and if I am to believe the general sentiment that I hear - OP catches up and surpasses it quickly in the later chapters.) In fact I think the Zabuza arc is probably the best shonen arc I have ever read of its, relatively short, length (in about the same amount of chapters Luffy and co where fighting Kuro in one of the most underwhelming arc in the series imo). The chunin exams have been strong and enjoyable if not incredibly exceptional (again, I believe the general consensus is that it's all downhill for Naruto after this arc - which does not bode well for the series imo).
I find Naruto to be only a so-so lead (damn he can be annoying - even if that is intentional it still sucks) and I think that there are other characters all around him that are vastly more interesting which would make for much better leads (Rock Lee and Kakashi being at the top of the list). All in all I would say that, even if it is true that Naruto goes too shit after the arc that I am currently on and stays that way for the next 400 chapters, the first 14 or so books are worth getting for being some of the best shonen material I have ever read (easily on par if not surpassing anything Togashi has ever written) .
I would also like to mention that a couple of years back I tried to watch the anime Naruto and made it about 100 episodes in so all the material I have read so far is not exactly new to me but I feel the manga is a vastly better experience (save for the Rock Lee v. Gaara fight.)
first-ish impressions
I just read like volumes 6-9 or something at my library recently, and I can totally echo your sentiments. Part 1 was good. Like, really good. And then shippuden comes along, and makes it all look bad. there have been a couple of good moments in part 2, but it has largely been crap.
And the art.
Good god, Kishimoto, you don't give a single shit anymore, do you.
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@outspec Madara only wants Sasuke to fight Naruto because he converted Pein and some reason needs Sasuke to be complete evil. Go read his Convo with Naruto again. He said something like Pain got turned because he was weak. He even wants Sasuke to get stronger.(Making Zetsu alert the Kages that Sasuke is their to make Sasuke train). Also Kabuto is a dumbass. Madara was going to go after Naruto/Bee by himself and here comes the dumbass thinking he has a upperhand, when Madara is just using him. Their is a few things we know about Madara. The only thing he is slightly scared of is the 6th coffin. He still threaten to kill Kabuto even after the fact.
This is the first time i think he was telling 100% truth. He had no reason to be lying here. The Kage meeting i think he was BSing tho.
1.He doesn't like to do things himself, so he tells other people to do it.
2. Lies about everything.
3. Wears a mask, but claims he is Uchia Madara(why where a mask then)
4. He loves to watch fights, so much so that he tells Zetsu to record fights.
5. He does certain things for the lol
6. Doesn't care about his body parts
7. outspec he doesn't want peace. He already admitted that to naruto when he called him out.
8. Madara has had to change his plans slightly for various reasons. Members dying, Naruto beating pein etc…. He even says he took a gamble on Sasuke because he might of choose to protect the leaf or hate them.
Just listen to the convo he had with Naruto
IMO he just wants Sasuke to fight Naruto to prove he fully converted him and the enjoyment of seeing a uchia beat a Senju. -
I like the idea of Madara as a big bad who's essentially doing it for the evulz, I just wish he was executed better. Oh well, better than Aizen.
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And when was any of this, any at all (Besides the police force thing, but even that showed no indication that they might be traitors or that it was anything but a sign of respect), ever even hinted at before Madara's explanation? If it had been gradually uncovered, and preferably by someone who just happened to dig it up, it might've been better. But it came out of nowhere and was altogether kind of BS.
How? At the start of the manga, and the majority of pt1 we only knew that Itachi had slain all of the Uchiha except Sasuke. The only time the Police Force was brought into light was during the flashback that occurred shortly before Naruto's fight with Sasuke, and one could say that Itachi hid the truth about the Police Force scam from Sasuke…I mean, he did hide everything else concerning the Uchiha's beef with Konoha from him.
So I'm not really sure how anything could have been hinted at in terms of the Uchiha and the fake Police Force, when all of the Uchiha were dead (So there weren't any in the Police Force), and Itachi was a missing-nin and Sasuke had just entered the ninja academy.
In any case, there are several things you have to note, mostly Itachi's actions, which in turn could be seen as hinting to something more that what meets the eye when it came to the Senju/Uchiha thing.
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Itachi murders the entire clan, but spares Sasuke. Why the hell would he do that? Even if Itachi said it was to "measure his capacity", why would he leave Sasuke? What could he gain? Itachi even went as far as to tell Sasuke to research the secrets behind the Sharingan, and even told him how to achieve MS.. Why wuold he do that? Why spare Sasuke and tell him how to become strong? Why put him on the path of revenge?
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Not to mention that we even have two big-ass statues of a Senju and Uchiha as a tribute to their epic battle at the VoTE. That's as big enough of a hint of Senju/Uchiha beef as it gets.
Think about it this way, Madara's talk with Sasuke clears up Itachi's ambiguous actions in pt 1 (Which in turn could be seen as hints), which were basically killing his clan/trying to get Sasuke to be a hate filled killing machine.
Madara's talk also explains what exactly led up to Itachi having to kill his own clansmen, which was a lot more than "LOL I WANTED TO TRY MY NEW SHARINGAN" (Which isn't much IMO), which led to the whole backstory dealing with the founding of the leaf.
The explanation wasn't out of the blue, it was built on Itachi's actions in pt 1, and brought some light to some other things (The founding of the leaf, exactly why the Uchiha were massacred and who ordered it)
ANd how does making them the police force make them any more under control then any other position? That was a crapshoot explanation in and of itself. It isn't good writing to make up such a major plotpoint from absolutely nowhere.
And what other position do you suggest the Uchiha should have gotten, that would have went well with their skills (warriors) and wouldn't raise any eyebrows….chefs?
Furthermore, why would they suspect an Uchiha did it, when all indications and all things from the story indicate that nobody had any clue why it happened, except maybe the third.
This part of your post doesn't make any sense. People still don't have a clue as to why it happened. :wassat: Minato and Kushina the only two people that saw Madara are dead. Everyone else was dealing with the kyubi itself before Minato intervened. So I'm not really sure what you're talking about here.
The reason they suspected the Uchiha was because of the fact that it is known that the Sharingan allows you to control the fox. Couple that with the mistrust that Konoha had for the Uchiha because of Madara's actions…it makes sense for them to suspect the Uchiha.
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@arronrules Itachi being good was clearly planned.
Itachi and his father talking about getting in the ANBU on a special mission
Father goes Apeshit over the so called (Villian) wanting to attend Sasuke academy instead of get a crucial part of this.(Also take note of everytime the father talks its about the Uchia clan not the whole village http://manga.animea.net/naruto-chapter-220-page-17.htmlItachi father and him talking about the connections and getting mad he doing jobs for the leafs instead of coming to Uchia meetings. Why would he be so mad of Itachi going to meetings for the ANBU(The group directly under the Hokage). He was just saying how important it is for Itachi making it in the ANBU for the Uchia clan http://manga.animea.net/naruto-chapter-221-page-16.html
Itachi basically telling Sasuke he going to hate him for wat he will do "Even if it means we hate each other". http://manga.animea.net/naruto-chapter-221-page-20.html
Shisui was hired to spy on Itachi because he doing missions for the Hokage and missing secret Uchia meetings. Why the hell would they be mad at Itachi for missing meeting when HIS FATHER WAS GOING APESHIT OVER HIM GOING INTO ANBU RUN BY THE HOKAGE. They claim he is betraying the clan? How is doing your job for the leader of the village betraying anyone? http://manga.animea.net/naruto-chapter-222-page-19.html
Lets see the only thing Itachi has done to warrant a secret spy so far is abide by the Hokage/Elders missions. Why would they get so mad. Isn't it their village too?
He mocks the guys about talking about the clan the clan all the time http://manga.animea.net/naruto-chapter-222-page-21.htmlItachi father tells him to stop Itachi responds "NOTING STRANGE, I AM CARRYING OUT MY DUTY" http://manga.animea.net/naruto-chapter-222-page-22.html Yep Itachi and his father doesn't understand because he thinks he is refering to his Duty to the Uchia and asks "So why didn't you come last night to the meeting" Can anyone explain wat Duty he was refering to.
Mother tells Sasuke the clan is in bad position. What bad position? and why did is father go apeshit over him not getting into the ANBU? You know the group who gets to be around the Hokage. He was clearly a spy for the Uchia
Even Sasuke calls his test his capacity lie crap http://www.mangareader.net/93-229-17…apter-224.html Why didn't he go test his capacity on the Hokage? You know the big dog. He in the ANBU now. He close to him to find a opening. oh wait because it was complete BS.
Ok after reading that u might say Madara was a asspull through even if wat u say is true. It would be if Itachi doesn't mention this to Sasuke http://www.mangareader.net/93-230-4/…apter-225.html
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