@Mr.:
Anyone know why my post about last week's episode got deleted? =/
You don't have any deleted posts in the last week. You probably never actually posted it.
Breaking Bad
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Haha must've been another moment of typing it out and then forgetting to actually press post. I hate when I do that.
Going back a step, here was a thought that stuck out from last week's ep:
! The intro. made me really sad, because his call to Skylar showed that they were happy. Despite their financial troubles and him being recently diagnosed with cancer (although she didn't know just yet), they still talked to each other like any normal couple. In other words, they probably would've gone by just fine if he hadn't got caught up in the whole meth business.
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! The phone call with RJ Mitte was terrific. I thought he would take the money but then I remembered "oh yeah, he did kill Hank." Kinda sad to see how Walt's endeavors were all pretty much for nothing. Glad Elliot and Gretchen showed up again. Hope that gun in the trunk is for them (though it probably won't, I just hate them so much and want Walt to shoot them in the face). Still wonder what that ricin is for… I feel like there are so many unanswered questions that can't be answered in just one episode, but Vince Gilligan never fails to please me!
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! Todd really stepped it up in villainy this episode. Not just for coldly shooting Andrea in the back of the head, but that scene where he threatened Skylar…He was truly frightening there.
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! Man I know the writers wanted us to go against Todd and the others, but killing Andrea like that was just too cruel! Seeing Jesse's anguish….
! Walt wasn't doing any better....even after going through all the hoops to get the money, Jr. refuses. Heartbreaking stuff, but I didn't think the whole Gretchen-Elliot subplot would come back. Then again, if Hector Salamanca and Bogden came back.....anyway, cards are down and Walt's gonna make his move.
! Blow my mind next week, Vince Gilligan. -
! So the new theory on the interwebs is that the ricin is for Elliot an Gretchen. If that ends up being the case, not even I could defend Walt anymore, And, honestly, it would leave a bit of a bad taste in my mouth.
! I'm going to continue hoping that it's for Lydia. -
! I should sincerely hope that Walt, even in Heisenberg mode, wouldn't be petty enough to kill Elliot and Gretchen just because they (understandably) demerited him on television. I think that moment just served as his final motivation to go out and get revenge on Jack and co., while forsaking his old life.
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! There was this one scene a few seasons back where Walt was talking to Gretchen, and I felt that it implied that there was something more to Walt's falling out with the company. I'm having trouble remembering it, and I thought that plot line was wrapped up when Walt explained it all to Jesse in his "empire business" speech, but maybe bringing up Elliot and Gretchen again will touch on that again.
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I can't believe that Breaking Bad 5.2 gets really good ratings. I mean, I watched all seasons, except the final one, and I can't see how the creators can wrap, this overall average, series that awesome up as people say. After watching all those seasons I had no thrust or hope that the creators are able to write something awesome. But after I read all those positive comments I may be wrong. You guys restored some hope today :). Even though the other seasons aren't that good, I would like to see a great final season.
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I can't believe that Breaking Bad 5.2 gets really good ratings. I mean, I watched all seasons, except the final one, and I can't see how the creators can wrap, this overall average, series that awesome up as people say. After watching all those seasons I had no thrust or hope that the creators are able to write something awesome. But after I read all those positive comments I may be wrong. You guys restored some hope today :). Even though the other seasons aren't that good, I would like to see a great final season.
If you didn't like the first few seasons, you're not going to like this one.
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Yeah…if you couldn't get into any of the seasons post-one then you won't like or care what happens in the final one.
Probably shouldn't waste your time watching it. I knew people who felt like that about LOST and they just felt like they wasted their time forcing themselves to watch the final season.
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You mean those positive comments like great or masterpiece were also present in earlier seasons? And I didn't say that I dislike BB. Some nice parts, some funny stuff and also some intense scenes. Some character are/were cool too. Saul, Gus, Mike etc. It's just average for me, because nothing too great, too intense or too shocking happened. The final season on the other hand sounds exactly like this.
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You mean those positive comments like great or masterpiece were also present in earlier seasons? And I didn't say that I dislike BB. Some nice parts, some funny stuff and also some intense scenes. Some character are/were cool to. Saul, Gus, Mike etc.It's just average for me, because nothing too great, too intense or too shocking happened. The final season on the other hand sound exactly like this.
Exactly, yes. The other seasons are almost as equally praised. Season 4 and 5 both got tremendous ratings. The actors have gotten Emmys and the show has won many awards. It isn't much different than the praise the current season is getting.
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Damn :(. Same with Dexter. The difference is that i really really like the first three seasons, especially the second one. The characters are awesome and I liked the interactions a lot. To read that the final sucks is juat sad for me. Season 4 was a little bit of a let down but not to bad. And people say that it won't get better. Gosh why are the creators that incompetent…Sorry for off topic :(
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! Looks like next episodes Walt is going on a killing spree
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This post is deleted!
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@Nex:
! So the new theory on the interwebs is that the ricin is for Elliot an Gretchen. If that ends up being the case, not even I could defend Walt anymore, And, honestly, it would leave a bit of a bad taste in my mouth.
! I'm going to continue hoping that it's for Lydia.! Severely doubt that. Walt in Heisenberg mode would want Gretchen and Elliot to know just who killed them (if he is gonna kill them). He's a dying wanted man whose own family hates him. He's got nothing to lose. If he kills them, and we all know he wants to, he'd do it with a bang.
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walt is not going to kill the Schwartzes guys jeez
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Walter is clearly going to snort some of his high quality meth and go on a Grand Theft Auto-esque rampage.
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That ending really hyped me up for the season finale. Fucking Heisenberg about to choke some bitches.
If I had to state a con, I have to say this episode more than any other really elucidated the huge mistep on how they handled Walt's character in the previous season. The entire point of this episode is how we root for Walt to make the decision to kick some ass and kill some bad guys. Wouldn't have worked if your main character was the equivalent of Tony Montana. When we want aforementioned character to win rather than just being there to watch him crash and burn…yeah some mishandled characterization right there. But that's just a nitpick.
Can't fucking wait for next episode, when Walt's in the zone, he makes miracles that overturn everybody's expectations.
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Wonder if Jesse's family will make an appearance.
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@Thousand:
That ending really hyped me up for the season finale. Fucking Heisenberg about to choke some bitches.
If I had to state a con, I have to say this episode more than any other really elucidated the huge mistep on how they handled Walt's character in the previous season. The entire point of this episode is how we root for Walt to make the decision to kick some ass and kill some bad guys. Wouldn't have worked if your main character was the equivalent of Tony Montana. When we want aforementioned character to win rather than just being there to watch him crash and burn…yeah some mishandled characterization right there. But that's just a nitpick.
Can't fucking wait for next episode, when Walt's in the zone, he makes miracles that overturn everybody's expectations.
Seems more like you don't get the creators' intent at all.
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Seems more like you don't get the creators' intent at all.
Uh …. what is the creator's intent then?
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Seems more like you don't get the creators' intent at all.
The creators themselves have pretty much admitted they're making up the story as they go along. And it shows. They're just really good at it. If Lost was at one end of the spectrum, Breaking Bad would be the other end.
If the point of the last season was to make us hate Walt, they failed or they changed their mind. Probably the latter.
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I don't even know where to start.
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Seems more like you don't get the creators' intent at all.
It's pointless to even go there with her. Dead horse beating etc
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16charactersofhim?
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Finally caught up, right before the finale!
What do you think the chances of Jesse making up some of that explosive not-blue-meth Walt used on Tucco in season 1 to escape the Nazis?
Speaking of Nazis, I'm kinda not liking them as antagonists. "Nazi" is so easy a villain. Not to mention these guys are just glorified thugs. Walt was dealing with punks like that since the first season. Then again, after Gus, who else can compare?
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Speaking of Nazis, I'm kinda not liking them as antagonists. "Nazi" is so easy a villain. Not to mention these guys are just glorified thugs. Walt was dealing with punks like that since the first season. Then again, after Gus, who else can compare?
Well they may be Neo-Nazis but they are not "villains" for their racial beliefs, they are villains for being total pieces of shit in general (and that sociopath Todd).
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Yes, but they're still just thugs.
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I kinda agree. These characters was done as well as could be hoped for what they are and it's not like I'm uninterested in them or not hoping that Walt massacres the lot of them but ultimately these final villains are just obstacles to be removed. They don't have the sort of character dynamic that Walt had with Gus or Hank. There's no emotional complexity or moral conflict to this. They're just bad guys to be killed.
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That's the point. Walt considers himself the ultimate master genius and he's duked it out with equally brilliant masterminds like Gus, that being bested by a bunch of simpleton nazis only makes the facade of the Great Heisenberg come crumbling down harder.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Some people should read this article about the Bad Fan: http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/culture/2013/09/last-nights-breaking-bad-that-mindbending-phone-call.html
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After never really having watched this show before (only like half an episode in season 4, I think) I finally sat down and watched the first season in one sitting. And it was really, really great.
Obviously, the acting and chemistry (hah) between Walter and Jesse is amazing. I don't really like the rest of the side characters though. Skyler is kinda annoying and bitchy, Marie is just plain annoying (seeing her goof around during that baby shower was just cringe-worthy) and Hank is just the stereotypical cop. Though I admit, he did make me laugh quite a few times. I'm gonna crack open season 2 tomorrow, since I'm really interested in where things are heading now when they're playing in Tuco's court.
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Earlier in the thread someone mentioned that it's weird going back to older seasons and seeing the characters behaving differently than the drama we're currently used to seeing. I said the exact same thing to my roommate regarding the Heisenberg hat when Walt is dancing around naked wearing it making light of his "fugue state" with Skylar.
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Speaking of Nazis, I'm kinda not liking them as antagonists. "Nazi" is so easy a villain. Not to mention these guys are just glorified thugs. Walt was dealing with punks like that since the first season. Then again, after Gus, who else can compare?
See, here's my thing, I don't actually see them as villains. If anything they're more like a force of nature. They jus go where the money is. Even Todd never acts malevolently, which is why i can't call him a sociopath. He does things because they have to be done.
I do have to say, I appreciate that the show never showed them committing any acts for white supremacy.
Oh, and if anyone is the villain this season, it's Lydia. Mike was so right about her. Shoulda put a bullet in her head.
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@Nex:
See, here's my thing, I don't actually see them as villains. If anything they're more like a force of nature. They jus go where the money is. Even Todd never acts malevolently, which is why i can't call him a sociopath. He does things because they have to be done.
I do have to say, I appreciate that the show never showed them committing any acts for white supremacy.
Oh, and if anyone is the villain this season, it's Lydia. Mike was so right about her. Shoulda put a bullet in her head.
Todd is a sociopath because he acts like a really normal, nice guy on the one hand while murdering people and manipulating them on the other, without hesitation and without a bother. It makes absolutely no difference whether he kills people for fun or because he feels he needs to. That's a sociopath. I mean how can you watch him offer Jesse ice cream down in his cage as if they're buddies and not call him a sociopath?
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Todd is a sociopath because he acts like a really normal, nice guy on the one hand while murdering people and manipulating them on the other, without hesitation and without a bother. It makes absolutely no difference whether he kills people for fun or because he feels he needs to. That's a sociopath. I mean how can you watch him offer Jesse ice cream down in his cage as if they're buddies and not call him a sociopath?
Because he gets no pleasure in killing, and he seems generally to just have a "sorry, but this is what has to happen" attitude. He's not anti-social, and he has a sense of moral responsibility and social conscious, it's just been warped because he grew up with is Uncle Jack.
And, if you think about it, Todd's never done anything for any reason other than to impress those he's with. He killed Drew because he thought it's what Walt and Jesse would have wanted. If he knew they didn't, then he would not have killed Drew. He killed Andrea (most likely) because Jack wanted him to.
While I don't think we can define him as a classic sociopath, and definitely not a classic psychopath, there is something wrong with him.
Todd, if he's anything, is a Dog. Loyal as hell to anyone who will feed him, and he'll do anything to make them happy. He still has that loyalty to Walt, that's why he made sure to get him a barrel of money.
And, if I can digress some more. I believe the point of Todd's character is that he represents everything Walt wanted Jesse to be, taken to the maximum. He does whatever he's told and never questions Walt's decisions. Imagine how much more smoothly things would have gone for Walt if Todd had been his partner the entire time. Crazy 8 and Emilio would never have even been an issue. Todd is just Jesse minus the humanity, he is proof that Jesse has triumphed… in a way.
Apologies for the rambling, but I just got home from a long, long, long day. I. Am. So. Tired. That I cou zzzzzzzzzzz.
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Why do Breaking Bad fans keep making excuses for the most despicable characters in this show?
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Why do Breaking Bad fans keep making excuses for the most despicable characters in this show?
I have no idea.
Todd killed Drew because the mission was no witnesses and the kid was a witness. It's not about approval, it's about sticking to the plan. He didn't even wait to hear what Walt or Jesse thought of the idea. In fact Jesse is screaming NO NO NO the entire time he's pulling his gun out. Honestly if that was an adult who saw them doing that the adult probably would have also ended up in a barrel of acid. But Todd doesn't make the distinction between killing an adult and killing a child he just see's a threat. He does what needs to be done and 100% ensures that no one is a witness to their crime without any moral scruples. He even defends his actions as the right thing to do, he says he saw no other option and took the kid as a threat to their business that had to be eliminated etc. His remarks to Jesse aren't based on approval, shit happens is what he tells him.
Also Todd is clearly capable of thinking for himself and of himself, as evident when he shot the kid without thinking of anyone else's standards of the situation of his own. Also when he lies to Walt, a man he keeps repeatedly stating he has a lot of respect for about what he plans on doing with Jesse. He clearly had no intention of just letting Jesse go because as we see later when he tries to convince Jack not to kill Jesse, he's motivated by his infatuation with Lydia. So not he's not a dog who does whatever he's told and he's a lot smarter and independent than Nex is giving him credit for.
All of this follows through with the killing of Andrea which never needed to happen. Todd is keeping Jesse alive so he can cook meth, but not for money, the money is a nice bonus, it's for Lydia. That's important because it means Jack's men don't really have a reason to help Todd. They have all the money they want. So killing Andrea to put Jesse back in line isn't about money, at the end of the day, it's about Todd wanting a GF. Todd isn't a representation of anyone. He is a new character with his own motivations and his own code of allegiance. Like Mike, Gus, Tuco, and Jack, Todd is his own separate force in the criminal underworld that Walt has entered. It's easy to compare him to Jesse as they are Walt's only protege's and while one cracked under the pressure of the business, the other isn't fazed but they are worlds apart in other ways and Walt never really knows what Todd is really like.
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Why do Breaking Bad fans keep making excuses for the most despicable characters in this show?
I don't understand why so many people keep trying to write things off as Black and White in a show that is about the Gray (Matter) in life. Come on people! Very first episode, what is chemistry? Study of Matter. But Walt see's it as the Study of Change. And that is all of Life. Please tell me you all haven't been assuming Gray Matter was an arbitrary name during the course of this show? When, based on the thesis presented in the very first episode, their name should be taken as Gray Life. Otherwise saying that all Life is Gray.
No one in this show is black or white. not Walt, not Todd, not Tuco, Gus, Mike, Jesse, Hank, or even the Neo-Nazis. They're all gray and they are constantly changing.
So I am not making excuses, I am just looking at it objectively.
Todd killed Drew because the mission was no witnesses and the kid was a witness. It's not about approval, it's about sticking to the plan. He didn't even wait to hear what Walt or Jesse thought of the idea.
You're kidding me, right? It's clear from the minute he mentions that he took the camera out of the nanny clock in the first house they cook in that he's vying for their approval. He holds them in a high respect, and he wants them to like them; he wants to be part of the gang.
In fact Jesse is screaming NO NO NO the entire time he's pulling his gun out.
All 5 seconds? It happened quick, it wasn't like Todd was staring down the barrel having an internal debate.
Honestly if that was an adult who saw them doing that the adult probably would have also ended up in a barrel of acid. But Todd doesn't make the distinction between killing an adult and killing a child he just see's a threat. He does what needs to be done and 100% ensures that no one is a witness to their crime without any moral scruples.
You need to understand something before I go any further, I'm not saying it was a good thing to kill a child. No, it was a bad thing. I would hope that shouldn't need clarification, but considering how quickly many of you are to label people as horrible irredeemable monster sociopaths, I don't want you jumping to any conclusions about me.
Think about Walt, and his drive to protect his family. (Or as you guys will insist to see it, his Empire, because you just can't accept that there might be some good in Walt left.) Drew would have ended up in a barrel anyway. And this would have been the most despicable thing he ever did in the show. Consciously deciding to kill a child would be his new low point, and he really probably would have been irredeemable. But the show didn't go that route. So you have to ask why.
As far as I can see, there are two reasons:
- They did not want to write Walt off as an irredeemable monster. The wanted the door to remain open and the audience to be on his side. (As a protagonist, not a moral character.)
- They needed to illustrate that Todd would do anything if he thought those he was trying to impress would appreciate it.
After Todd kills him and they go back to the pest shop, he is utterly confused by their reaction. He thought it was what they wanted. No witnesses after all. Yes, he shows no moral qualms about it. But he does have an odd sense of morals. But even if he didn't, that still would be far from making him a sociopath.
Allow me to digress a tiny bit one more time at we look at the classic definition of sociopath, and see if Todd fits the bill. And, while we're at it, Walt.
- Glibness and superficial charm. I think Todd fits half of that. He's not very glib. Walt.
- Manipulative and conning. Todd is neither of these things. Walt.
- Grandiose sense of self. I don't think this fits him either. Walt.
- Pathological lying. Definitely not Todd. He is 100% all the time. That's not a hyperbole. During his tenure on the show, I have no recollection of him ever lying to any other character. He even tells Lydia that Jesse got the blue meth over 90% instead of taking credit for it. (I'm not giving this to Walt, because he only started lying once he got into the business and, you know, had to.)
- Lack of remorse, shame, or guilt. For the most part I would say this fits Todd. What's throwing me, however, is the remorse he seems to show at killing Hank. He seems sorry for Walt, and even tells him so much. However, because I think he was feeling this remorse moreso out of his respect for Walt than actually remorse, I am going to give Todd full points here.
- Shallow emotions. Definitely a characteristic of him. Fits with the remorse being out of respect.
- Incapacity for love. Well now, this is interesting, as it seems that love might be the one emotion besides respect he is fully capable of. He's definitely not lusting after Lydia. No points here.
- Need for stimulation. Definitely not Todd. He's just a guy with goes with the flow. He doesn't actively search out weighs to live on the edge. No promiscuity or gambling here. Walt.
- Callousness/Lack of empathy. Todd is a difficult one. I would say he, for the most part, lacks empathy, but he has never appeared callous. 1/2 credit. Walt.
- Poor behavioral controls/ Impulsive nature. Even though you will probably argue killing Drew was impulsive. I do not believe Todd was acting impulsive there, as he was doing what he though was his job.
- Early behavioral problems/ Juvenile delinquency Can't really speak on this for Todd. But Walt does not seem like he would have been guilty of this.
- Irresponsibility/ Unreliability. Definitely not Todd. If anything he's super-reliable.
- Promiscuous sexual behavior/ Infidelity. Nope.
- Lack of realistic life plan/ Parasitic lifestyle. Definitely Todd.
- Criminal or entrepreneurial versatility. Oh yes. Walt.
Out of those 15, Todd fits the bill on 4 of them. Walt on 6. So, while Walt is closer to being a sociopath, neither of them are. This will be important to remember going forward.
He even defends his actions as the right thing to do, he says he saw no other option and took the kid as a threat to their business that had to be eliminated etc. His remarks to Jesse aren't based on approval, shit happens is what he tells him.
Because he thought it was the right thing to do. And because he thought Jesse would agree. Go back and watch that scene again. When he says that he is looking at Jesse for approval.
Also Todd is clearly capable of thinking for himself and of himself, as evident when he shot the kid without thinking of anyone else's standards of the situation of his own.
Well that's just bologna and you know it. You mentioned the "no witnesses" part of the mission. He did it because he thought it was part of the job.
Also when he lies to Walt, a man he keeps repeatedly stating he has a lot of respect for about what he plans on doing with Jesse. He clearly had no intention of just letting Jesse go because as we see later when he tries to convince Jack not to kill Jesse, he's motivated by his infatuation with Lydia. So not he's not a dog who does whatever he's told and he's a lot smarter and independent than Nex is giving him credit for.
He doesn't tell Walt he'll let Jesse go, he tells him he'll kill him. Which, as far as I'm concerned he still will, once Jesse outlives any usefulness to Todd. And he won't to it to be cruel to Jesse. He'll do it because he told Walt he would. (And, why I'm here, I want to point out that he didn't continue to torture Jesse once he got the necessary information.)
This infatuation with Lydia isn't him being independent, it's him trying to get her respect because he loves her. He's still a dog. If you feed him and treat him well, he will be loyal to you.
All of this follows through with the killing of Andrea which never needed to happen. Todd is keeping Jesse alive so he can cook meth, but not for money, the money is a nice bonus, it's for Lydia. That's important because it means Jack's men don't really have a reason to help Todd. They have all the money they want. So killing Andrea to put Jesse back in line isn't about money, at the end of the day, it's about Todd wanting a GF.
I agree with you about it being about him wanting a girlfriend. And yes, killing Andrea is a means toward that end, but do you really think it was Todd who decided to do it? Todd's not even the one who threatens Brock, it's Jack. Todd just did it because, come on, look at that face. Now look at all the others. It's no wonder he's the only one of the family who works.
Todd isn't a representation of anyone. He is a new character with his own motivations and his own code of allegiance. Like Mike, Gus, Tuco, and Jack, Todd is his own separate force in the criminal underworld that Walt has entered. It's easy to compare him to Jesse as they are Walt's only protege's and while one cracked under the pressure of the business, the other isn't fazed but they are worlds apart in other ways and Walt never really knows what Todd is really like.
Seriously? It's obvious that he is everything Walt ever wanted Jesse to be. He doesn't question, doesn't demand money, and does whatever he's told without a second thought. He doesn't even do any drugs! Todd is Walt's Jesse idealized. There's a reason Todd and Jesse are coupled together going into the finale. And Walt does see this in him, as he works with him enough in the lab to understand. They worked together for three months, after all.
And Todd is not his own separate force. The seen where we find out that his loyalty to and respect for Walt is too high for him to kill Skylar simply because Lydia asked him to proves that. Yes, it might appear that way, but he is still a dog running to whom is most loyal. If Lydia ever starts returning his affection, that's it, Skylar's gonna get got.
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I had posted a response to each of those points but I just deleted it. The parts of what you say that aren't just flatout wrong i completely disagree with anyway. That article that kaiolino posted is you in a nutshell. No point in beating another horse.
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I had posted a response to each of those points but I just deleted it. The parts of what you say that aren't just flatout wrong i completely disagree with anyway. That article that kaiolino posted is you in a nutshell. No point in beating another horse.
Oh please, enlighten me, what I am flat out wrong on?
And, I am nothing like that article. I don't think Walt is a kick ass genius worty of worship. I don't ignore the dead kids. No, I include everything. I have not ever claimed Walt to be a good guy. Or to be a hero.
If you have actually been reading my post with the words I put in them and not the words you want me to say, I've had a completely objective and GRAY stance on this whole thing. My argument from the beginning has been that you are flat out wrong to label Walt or Todd or any character of this show as black or white. That article Kai linked to is about people who twist the show to portray Walt in the White. Not once have I ever done this. I have always argued for the GRAY.
So, please, refute me. Enlighten me as to why I am wrong. Enlighten me as to why Walt and Todd are these characters who exist solely in the black. Explain to me how this show has not made it abundantly clear that it's all shades of gray.
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@Nex:
Oh please, enlighten me, what I am flat out wrong on?
And, I am nothing like that article. I don't think Walt is a kick ass genius worty of worship. I don't ignore the dead kids. No, I include everything. I have not ever claimed Walt to be a good guy. Or to be a hero.
If you have actually been reading my post with the words I put in them and not the words you want me to say, I've had a completely objective and GRAY stance on this whole thing. My argument from the beginning has been that you are flat out wrong to label Walt or Todd or any character of this show as black or white. That article Kai linked to is about people who twist the show to portray Walt in the White. Not once have I ever done this. I have always argued for the GRAY.
So, please, refute me. Enlighten me as to why I am wrong. Enlighten me as to why Walt and Todd are these characters who exist solely in the black. Explain to me how this show has not made it abundantly clear that it's all shades of gray.
Though I agree with you in the argument, I think I did see a long post from his half an hour ago.
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Well then I missed it. Bummer. Hopefully he can repost it. I would like to note I edited that section out of my post before you mentioned this. I felt it was a bit to attacky when I really just wanted my post to be drenched in sarcasm.
Also, I apparently have nothing to do but be grouchy and argue with people today. That's what three hours of sleep and 14 hour work days gets ya! Livin' the dream!
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The main problem with you is that the series is not grey. It's not about grey. There are lines that people cross and when you cross them you don't come back. Gilligan said himself that the show is about turning Mr. Chips into Scarface. He never mentions anything about the show being about moral ambiguity. It's about a mans journey from good to bad. At this point in the story if you're placing Walt in a grey area then you do not understand the entire purpose of the show and you're as bad as placing him in the white. People who are willing to say Tuco, Neo-Nazi's and Gus Fring fall into some grey area are people who miss the point of the show entirely.
It is this massive disconnect between what the writers have constantly stated they want to achieve and have been extremely successful in doing so and the grey area show that you are making it out to be that makes discussion about this show with you pointless.
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The main problem with you is that the series is not grey. It's not about grey. There are lines that people cross and when you cross them you don't come back. Gilligan said himself that the show is about turning Mr. Chips into Scarface. He never mentions anything about the show being about moral ambiguity. It's about a mans journey from good to bad. At this point in the story if you're placing Walt in a grey area then you do not understand the entire purpose of the show and you're as bad as placing him in the white. People who are willing to say Tuco, Neo-Nazi's and Gus Fring fall into some grey area are people who miss the point of the show entirely.
It is this massive disconnect between what the writers have constantly stated they want to achieve and have been extremely successful in doing so and the grey area show that you are making it out to be that makes discussion about this show with you pointless.
You've made me curious. I've read/watched explanations about Walter's duality, but I would think that having black and white tendencies simultaneously is what makes someone grey. Maybe the problem is how exactly someone determines a character's morality, and some people consider some actions more excusable than others.
Personally, I think you miss out on a lot of character depth if you don't fully explore a character's motivations, but if I'm watching the show wrong or something, I'd like to know about it.
 
