haha. nice one Jinbei. that pic is priceless. "You son of a bitch!"
Chapter 502 "The Tenryuubito's Incident" Discussion
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Do you people seriously expect me to read all of those massive posts?
:(lot of good stuff in it…and better than wasting your time on other threads..maybe:ninja:
@Emporor:
Garp might do that since he still talks with his son Dragon and he is the leader of the group that is trying to destroy the World Government.
don
t think so…more likely smoker told him about that cant see the WG accepting that some of their best man talk with their enemy:blink:(they even wanted from garp to attack luffy...)Originally Posted by Jinbei
http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/10…2/Perditor.gifawesome:sideways:
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I'm totally with you here Greg. There have been lots of cannon fodder that have survived that if they had died, I believe it would give one piece a much stronger impact on these scenes. I was exactly the same as you. I'm actually not even convinced the guy who bit his tongue off is dead. don't be surprised if 3 chapters from now, he's all bandaged up around the mouth.
......… apart from Mr. 11 (who was officially declared dead by the marines) and some flashback scenes (Namis mom, ...) I don´t believe in death scenes at all in One Piece.
But surprisingly it doesn´t affect the manga quality and impact for me (yeah, I´m surprised myself
). I guess (for me) the focus is more to the (killing) intentions than the actual outcome. They all (at least some of them) really want to kill - it´s not their fault that there always is some divine intervention at the very last moment. As things are now, I could never think of someone like Lacueva as being dead ... -
I think it's Oda's big weakness not being able to kill characters. We can surely say Lacueva isn't dead (even Disco said he just fainted). Also, I don't think that Mr. 11 and Rossio is dead. Mr. 11 was killed off-screen, and if Pell was able to survive a bomb with power to destroy a whole town, then Rossio is able to survive a little burn, too.
In the cases of e.g. Pell, it was EXTREMELY annoying. Also Pagaya - no one cared about him (except Conis :P). I think it's okay for the enemies to survive sometimes if they wasn't too bad or if they make a cool comeback. It's also okay to let the Straw Hats survive (okay, I would be fine if Zoro had died after his badass confrontation with Kuma, but else…)
But I'll accept it in change for the great story Oda delivers but this. -
i believe oda only doesnt kill his important and specially designed characters. Lacueva can die all he want.
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As things are now, I could never think of someone like Lacueva as being dead …
How about the Kicking Claw Squad?
Oda's never flinched when it comes to suicide. Fuck, people can kill themselves, but God forbid a villain kill someone in the present to up the ante.
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I think it's Oda's big weakness not being able to kill characters. We can surely say Lacueva isn't dead (even Disco said he just fainted).
Disco also said that he got nervous, a nosebleed, and started choking. I think it was obvious he was trying to mask what happened. Just the page before one of his men went up to check him up close and said "It's no good." I'd say Sanji's words would be more accurate in that situation as he was meant to get the point across.
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Disco also said that he got nervous, a nosebleed, and started choking. I think it was obvious he was trying to mask what happened. Just the page before one of his men went up to check him up close and said "It's no good." I'd say Sanji's words would be more accurate in that situation as he was meant to get the point across.
Disco was calming everyone down… I don't suppose anyone would care less if the captain ever showed again or not. If they did they'd be none the wiser.
The guy is dead and Disco just pleasing a crowd who may have been interested in buying him; its probabely something thats happened a lot before in the business.
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Pell being alive and well instead of horribly disfigured piece of meat was indeed dissapointing, but it's not the big deal you ppl make it out to be. Wanna see death - go watch the latter HxH or some seinen (Kuroshia Ichi should do :) )
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How about the Kicking Claw Squad?
Funny thing is that scene was simply priceless so it's not like Oda would suck with deaths
Oda's never flinched when it comes to suicide. Fuck, people can kill themselves, but God forbid a villain kill someone in the present to up the ante.
Actually such scene actually happened once. Remember when Crocodile killed Puppoo and his men right at the beginning of Arabasta.
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Actually such scene actually happened once. Remember when Crocodile killed Puppoo and his men right at the beginning of Arabasta.
Oh, fodder guys die all the time. Hell, in the very first chapter, Lucky Roo plugged a dude in the head. Krieg killed two guys, Buggy blasted that guy with his Buggy Bombs at point blank, Kuro killed a couple guys with his Bamboo Death Ladle, etc, etc.,
What these non-believers are bitching about is named people dying. Which happens, just not to the good guys. Only to the bad guys. But to honestly believe that death hasn't occurred in One Piece is just extremely naive. The good guys don't die because it's supposed to be a romantic era. As for Pell, you can argue that he could've spun and thrown the bomb straight up, therefore only catching the edge of the blast. And for Pagaya, you could say that Enel's blast went right through him, and then he fell to the White Sea. My friend's dad was hit by lightning and it went out his eyes, and he's still alive, so…
But good people don't die. Bad people die all the time in One Piece.
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One of my teachers during school time once said "A good story doesn't require death, a bad one doesn't get saved by it" I gotta say that it is true. I didn't miss death in One Piece once…. and I stick with that (if we overlook the cannonfodder guys). Actually I even think it is funny when they show what the villains are doing after the SH crew beat 'em. I had some good laughs at Baroque Works running that Café etc :)
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Think our overestimating the power of all the Shickibukai tremendously. If you look over the Shickibukai roles in the series its been keeping the smaller pirates in line. Mihawk sinking ships he ran across, Crocodile taking down troublemakers in Alabasta, Moria pillaging any crew that flowed into the Florian triangle, Kuma is likely sent on assassintation/clean up missions all the time, even Jimbei's role is likely policing the underwater route to the New World since the marines can't do it.
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Its not really impossible to think their more than 2x stronger than the Shickibukai when you look at their top division captains. Ace, Marco, and probably the big guy are all Shickibukai level, lesser ranked captains probably Super Novas in their day. When the Fire Elemental(whose powerful even without the use of his fruit) is only the 3rd strongest member of a crew thats says a lot.
Ace's greatest attack engulfed half an Island, a simple clash of swords between two emperors split the atmosphere. Clearly Oda's trying to tell us theirs a reason so many super human people either serve the likes of WB or are left tramautized from their experiences in the Grand Line&New World. Just like a rookie vs. them it likely takes extrodinary circumstancs to stand up to an Emperor
WB or Shanks wouldn't need to be defeated by Crocodile to figure out wetting guy made out of sand or themselves and hes screwed. WB takes a sip from his jug and sprays it on his spear and Crocs finished in one move. Could even grab a torch instead of his blade and turn Croc into a glass statue. Croc sucessfully sucking Shanks dry? Have a hard time picturing that when Luffy resisted poison that melted a rock.
Abilities like Don Flamingo's and Moria's are likely ineffective against WB and Shanks or anyone on or above their level. Its possible Kaidou improved since his fight with Moria and its possible Moria got weaker since his defeat.
However its also possible Moria strategy vs. strong opponents was to use his crews or even civilian shadows to bolster his strength like Luffy did against Oz. Islands of people vanishing in the sunlight wherever you went seems an easy way to gain a 320 million bounty. In the end he met Kaidou who killed his crew to make their shadows disappear to send the shadow titan fleeing.
Don Flammingo taking control of Shanks or WB seems unlikely. Flammingo taking multiple hostages on lets say Sanji&Franky's level to use as meat shields or puppet fighters seems about right.
Mihawk seems like the exception to Shickibukai strength.
There's alot of conjecture here, especially since we know the role of the Shichibukai: to act as a presence that keeps the Emperors from making any major moves. One Piece is pretty political, to the extent you don't see much in shonen (which I like). Things like this are less clear-cut and based on solid "power levels" and other such things.
As for Ace being Shichibukai level, Ace was beaten by a man who became a Shichibukai because of it (and didn't even have the defensive aspects of a Logia). Coupled with that, a lower ranked (at first) Marine officer was a Logia of the same level, and one of the Shichibukai was a mastered Logia.
What Oda is trying to do is set up characters as great, "romantic" presences. No one split the stratosphere, they split clouds (although I'm sure someone's gonna quote a translation and take it literally, here). The Emperors are being set up as massive presences, yes, but if OP is about anything, it's legends and romance. Look past that, and all we have to go on is what we've seen them do.
And if you want to get into vs. discussions, keep in mind that Croc's water weakness wasn't common knowledge at all. Luffy only found out by accident, and Robin, who was the closest person to him, was the only other one who knew. Also, keep in mind that Crocodile doesn't need to just touch with his hand to dry someone to death; just look at his Barchan, and that fatal sandstorm. This is One Piece; a character isn't going to get "owned" just because he's an old character. The rest of your "vs." points are mere conjecture. And considering Oda has been making a concentrated effort to keep Doflamingo's bounty the highest we've seen seems to indicate something. What, I don't know. But, most of what you're saying regarding his supposed limits are conjecture.
Oh, and it takes the heat of a lightning bolt to turn sand into glass. Even then, it's a fragile glass that just crumbles easily back into sand.
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just read OPHQ's scan
FUUUUUCK YEAAAAAAH! Damn was that rewarding! LUFFY SMASHED THAT FUCKER RIGHT IN THE FACE!
I was worried there, I thought Luffy was gonna back down for a minute. Pwn't.
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Think our overestimating the power of all the Shickibukai tremendously. If you look over the Shickibukai roles in the series its been keeping the smaller pirates in line. Mihawk sinking ships he ran across, Crocodile taking down troublemakers in Alabasta, Moria pillaging any crew that flowed into the Florian triangle, Kuma is likely sent on assassintation/clean up missions all the time, even Jimbei's role is likely policing the underwater route to the New World since the marines can't do it.
didn't see your post till the previous just quoted you so thats why bringing this back
There is no evidence and pretty sure lots of evidence shwoing otherwise taht the Shichibukai were not given any of those orders.
–- Mihawk: you really think WG would send Mihawk to where people entering GL and sink them. If he is exception to str like you said later, why would he waste on people like Krieg. Pretty sure he was just in area, bored, maybe krieg just pissed him off somehow. just the way he looked, acted, the size of crew ect.
--- Crocodile was not given orders at all for arabasta, he just figured why not do it while there to help out his cause of the rebellion. If he is stopping all the pirates ect. and the Arabastian guards are not ever getting there in time, it keeps the people from thinking they need them. Helps incite the rebellion more, plus makes him out to be hero, so at end of war depending on what he does, people don't come crying to gov about what he did
--- Moria: the WG was basically assuming he was in Florian triangle don't beielve they knew exactly, just assumed due to dissapearances ect. and kinda peiced it together. he was off doing his own thing. And sort of destroying pirates like Croc for his own agenda and not for WG
--- DonFlamingo: if he indeed in charge of slave trade he is doing it for uknown reasons that we know. Most likely for money but who knows.
--- Kuma: As moria stated he is a tricky one, he does what htey say. yet he didn't finish the mission of killing.
basically Shichibukai are pirates that are in a sense like Kuro. Could be sick of being chased or wanted. So they chose to become shichibukai. So they can just freely sail around do what they please, just not against gov. And send a bit of money to gov. or they could be doing it for reasons like BB in that somehow this is a step needed to achieve something to become pirate king.
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Can someone remind me who the hell the Kicking Claw Squad was, so that I can laugh at the pricelessness as well?
~Stargazer~, ~Distance~ original stories.
3DS Friend Code: 2234-8294-8917
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Arabasta Holy Water dudes.
Anyway, I'll be making a prediction.
Anyone think Luffy isn't done with that asshole?
Oda-sensei's always gone above and beyond what the fans expect in everything from setup to actual fights.
I think most of can agree we hate Charlos's guts so I'm sure Oda-sensei will appeal to this and make Luffy beat the fuck even more out of him. That would be just like him and it would be awesome. Scary awesome. People think it's bad enough to hit a World Noble. But if Luffy constantly pulverizes him to the ground even when he's down, it would definitely put Luffy on an entirely different level if not two in the eyes of everyone.
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Yea but I think everyone hated Bellamy insanely and wanted a pummeling. And he just got OHKO'd.
Of course he is a high bounty pirate vs. we don't know the str of the Nobles yet assume super weak.
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Hmm, okay. I don't remember the courtyard sequences very well save for Chaka failing to cut through Crocodile and Mizu Luffy.
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All i have to say, is that i dislike caemie because she seems ugly, i dont like her hair, etc; but in this chapter, i don't why but i like her, she seems pretty but oh well U_ú
Luffy, you just did the right thing,
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there was the 4 soldiers who drank special water that kills you in a few minutes but you become strong for those few minutes. and then basically all that happened was what you remembered as well.
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@Captain Shmeckie - I loved your point about how political One Piece is. There's no way to really judge strength in the real world and that's what Oda is trying to do here. He has his three great powers, and it's like three great organizations. It's hard to pair an individual against an individual in this type of circumstance. Of course one individual will be stronger than another. but looking at it from a political point of view, the powers are balanced in the sense that one power cannot make a move against the other without severe consequences. Very similar to real life IMO.
Regarding death in One Piece - For the record, I don't believe that no one dies. I do believe people die, and I'm sure Greg does too if I understood him correctly. We're simply saying that scenes like Hachi being shot have no effect because, to date, Oda has not killed a developed character.
I never considered the idea of the Auctioneer trying to mask that that guy committed suicide. If so, kudos to Oda for the in-manga-real-time panel shot ^_^ I like this idea more.
I'm betting on the MHQ telling garp to deal with the situation over there, and we get to see a little scuffle between Rayleigh and Garp as a precursor to what we'll be seeing in the upcoming War with WB and the WG.
Right now, I have two theories.
- the war will be between WB and the MHQ only and BB will dethrone WB adding to this big important event
- I just threw out my 2nd theory, i was thinking of WB and Shanks teaming up, but WB is way too proud to accept help.
WARNING (Explicit Dialog)!!
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I miss Brankie :(
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Just be glad we still have Himajin otherwise we might not get ANYTHING until the chapter comes out…
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Right now, I have two theories.
- the war will be between WB and the MHQ only and BB will dethrone WB adding to this big important event
- I just threw out my 2nd theory, i was thinking of WB and Shanks teaming up, but WB is way too proud to accept help.
The first one is what I personally think will happen. Since it was foreshadowed that Blackbeard vs Ace was the trigger for a great event I can see the defeat of Whitebeard being just that.
Although I don't think the war itself will be shown to us. As the Strawhats come back up from Fishman Island and enter the New World I think they will either:
-Receive news of the conclusion of whatever happened regarding Ace's execution.
-Actually meet up with Whitebeard who is en-route to rescue Ace.I'm hoping for the latter since I think Luffy should at least see Whitebeard, even if it's just one time. Something as small as a passing glance on their ships would be nice, but I'd like to see them actually talk to each other.
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What about this…
The WG gave false information about Ace's whereabouts just to lure WB into a trap. This is where Luffys Biblicard comes into play.
Although if I were WB I would wait and see if Ace really is there but this could work.
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What about this…
The WG gave false information about Ace's whereabouts just to lure WB into a trap. This is where Luffys Biblicard comes into play.
Although if I were WB I would wait and see if Ace really is there but this could work.
No offense, but I think that'd be a bit cheesy. Ace's character has already been used to develop BB's character. Oda's laying the smack down on Ace pretty rough. Now he'll be a helpless "babe" waiting to be executed while WB fights for his life against the marines and/or BB.
Also, while the Biblicard is definite foreshadowing for things to come. I'd like to think that an Ace rescue mission isn't one of them. Luffy rescuing Ace does nothing for the SHP, and it would be a major drag on the storyline IMO.@Kidany:
-Receive news of the conclusion of whatever happened regarding Ace's execution.
-Actually meet up with Whitebeard who is en-route to rescue Ace.I'm hoping for the latter since I think Luffy should at least see Whitebeard, even if it's just one time. Something as small as a passing glance on their ships would be nice, but I'd like to see them actually talk to each other.
I'm feeling you on Luffy meeting up with WB at least once. The only thing is though… WB is so damn arrogant, I don't know if it'd serve any purpose. He'd just think Luffy is some punk kid. I'm actually more interested in Luffy meeting up and talking with Dragon. Don't know why that popped into my head, but I think that'd be a star wars worthy scene for One Piece :)
WARNING (Explicit Dialog)!!
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This post is deleted!
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I could see something like Luffy entering the New World, and as Whitebeard passes, his "aura" crushes the Strawhats. I have a feeling the Strawhats won't be entering the New World unless they encounter a power that makes them realize they're still rookies.
For some reason i think Luffy talking to Whitebeard about him rescuing Ace would make for some anticlimactic/awkward conversations
I like the idea of them hearing about Whitebeard's defeat as they enter the New World, making Luffy's filling Whitebeard's spot more foreshadowed. I definitely can see Luffy unintentionally becoming one of the Yonkou
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No offense, but I think that'd be a bit cheesy. Ace's character has already been used to develop BB's character. Oda's laying the smack down on Ace pretty rough. Now he'll be a helpless "babe" waiting to be executed while WB fights for his life against the marines and/or BB.
Also, while the Biblicard is definite foreshadowing for things to come. I'd like to think that an Ace rescue mission isn't one of them. Luffy rescuing Ace does nothing for the SHP, and it would be a major drag on the storyline IMO.
I'm feeling you on Luffy meeting up with WB at least once. The only thing is though… WB is so damn arrogant, I don't know if it'd serve any purpose. He'd just think Luffy is some punk kid. I'm actually more interested in Luffy meeting up and talking with Dragon. Don't know why that popped into my head, but I think that'd be a star wars worthy scene for One Piece :)Either WB barely manages to free Ace before his death or capture, or Luffy and co can save him.
Hell, maybe Garp even tries to help save his grandson.
Also, maybe Ace joins the crew, his goal being to defeat Teach.
Damn, I hate the idea of WB dying.Everyone who knew Roger, instantly thought of Luffy being really similar to him.
So no, WB and Luffy shouldn't meet, unless Luffy gets a huge power-up.
Because WB would just get so pissed, and try to kill Luffy.@rusashi,
I love that idea!
Luffy the yonkou, it's fitting! -
I'm feeling you on Luffy meeting up with WB at least once. The only thing is though… WB is so damn arrogant, I don't know if it'd serve any purpose. He'd just think Luffy is some punk kid. I'm actually more interested in Luffy meeting up and talking with Dragon. Don't know why that popped into my head, but I think that'd be a star wars worthy scene for One Piece :)
Of course Whtiebeard be arrogant, but I doubt he'd just shove off the Strawhats for no reason. I mean maybe Ace made a passing mention about his "little bro" Luffy, and once Luffy names himself Whitebeard might make a passing mention that he's off to rescue Ace. I see it as just by a glance Whitebeard will notice something special about Luffy or even similarities to Roger, and Whitebeard might think to himself those things as the crews continue on their way. I don't really expect anything big if they meet each other though.
I could see something like Luffy entering the New World, and as Whitebeard passes, his "aura" crushes the Strawhats. I have a feeling the Strawhats won't be entering the New World unless they encounter a power that makes them realize they're still rookies.
For some reason i think Luffy talking to Whitebeard about him rescuing Ace would make for some anticlimactic/awkward conversations
I like the idea of them hearing about Whitebeard's defeat as they enter the New World, making Luffy's filling Whitebeard's spot more foreshadowed. I definitely can see Luffy unintentionally becoming one of the Yonkou
I'm pretty sure the Strawhats know they're new blood compared to the established powers, but we've never had a situation that has ever intimidated Luffy and co. to the point of just holding off going somewhere.
I don't think it'd be awkward at all, it'd be the same as when Nami brought it up. Luffy knows Ace can take care of himself, and it's his captain who has to go get him. I think it'd be a sign of disrespect if Luffy would show doubt in front of the very man(Whitebeard) who's off to save his brother. Luffy would probably just wish Whitebeard good luck and to kick ass.
I kind of hope they meet Whitebeard as they enter then later on hear about his defeat. As you can tell my posts show my reasons. I don't think Luffy will be considered an Emperor since the status quo in the One Piece world is about to change. Guys like Luffy and Blackbeard aren't going to stay still, they're aiming for Pirate King, and nothing less is enough for these two.
It'll be fun to see exactly what transpires though.
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Which is punch is better Luffy vs Noble or Luffy vs this guy
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Actually such scene actually happened once. Remember when Crocodile killed Puppoo and his men right at the beginning of Arabasta.
Oh, fodder guys die all the time. Hell, in the very first chapter, Lucky Roo plugged a dude in the head. Krieg killed two guys, Buggy blasted that guy with his Buggy Bombs at point blank, Kuro killed a couple guys with his Bamboo Death Ladle, etc, etc.,
Yes this is exactly my point. Oda has actually gotten less ballzy with his series as time has gone on.
Now there's a fine line you need to ride when killing any character. When done well it can show you just how ruthless a villain is, how dire a situation is or create tension later on if given a similar situation. Oda used to do that. He doesn't anymore.
Yes, he used to kill dickhead villains, sometimes with heroes, sometimes with other dickhead villains. But the fact that he's gone out of his way not to do so with background characters, is just weak.
And when I say go out of his way, I mean how he could have left the fate of said character ambiguous but instead addressed it DIRECTLY. One might argue that Zoro attempting to rescue the engaged man was neccessary to show the other pirates present just what kind of 'pirates' the SH crew are. It would have had the same effect if he attempted to rescue him and he died, just so long as he gave it a thought. Instead we've got a Tenryuubito carrying around yet another pea shooter. I don't know why he didn't just go ahead and make it look like this:
If the end result is the same.
Anyway, like I said before, I'm hoping Oda is going to make the situation a bit more dire sooner rather than later, what with a war approaching and such. I wouldn't even be surprised if he killed some big name non-SH characters to up the ante. But this coddling to his ideals has to stop. I'm not asking for a bloody comic, just a series where villains are, gasp, dangerous.
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King Ty:For now I say luffy vs goat. His ass bounced like a pinball before he hit the ground. But i have to wait and see the aftermath of the noble punch to truly judge.
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@Kidany:
I'm pretty sure the Strawhats know they're new blood compared to the established powers, but we've never had a situation that has ever intimidated Luffy and co. to the point of just holding off going somewhere.
Exactly. Aokiji was the first time they were really put in their place. It's likely we'll get another Admiral within the next few chapters, but I doubt the Strawhats will take care of him/her with Raleigh sitting a few feet away. Whitebeard brushing past the Strawhats on the way to save Ace would be so fucking intimidating and epic. Especially since Luffy would have no idea who he is most likely, so for all he knows it's some random fucker who just has a giant aura about him. It would definitely be kind of inspiring to Luffy.
@Kidany:
I don't think it'd be awkward at all, it'd be the same as when Nami brought it up. Luffy knows Ace can take care of himself, and it's his captain who has to go get him. I think it'd be a sign of disrespect if Luffy would show doubt in front of the very man(Whitebeard) who's off to save his brother. Luffy would probably just wish Whitebeard good luck and to kick ass.
I just think the conversation would be kind of underwhelming, especially if nothing important was revealed during the conversation.
It would pretty much be
WB : Hey, it's the Strawhat who happens to be the guys brother we're about to save
Luffy : Hey you're Ace's captain
WB : Well I'm gonna go save him
Luffy : K, good luckBut Oda is a much better writer than I, so I'm sure he can do better then that.
@Kidany:
I kind of hope they meet Whitebeard as they enter then later on hear about his defeat. As you can tell my posts show my reasons. I don't think Luffy will be considered an Emperor since the status quo in the One Piece world is about to change. Guys like Luffy and Blackbeard aren't going to stay still, they're aiming for Pirate King, and nothing less is enough for these two.
It'll be fun to see exactly what transpires though.
I don't think Luffy will actually assume the position of being a Yonkou, but he'll be recognized as one. The yonkou probably don't refer to themselves as Yonkou (or do they? I don't feel like re-reading WB/Shanks convo) so the Marines would just label Luffy as WB's replacement in the hierarchy.
And I really can't wait to see what goes down. This is no doubt the most excited I've been in awhile [/nerd]
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There's alot of conjecture here, especially since we know the role of the Shichibukai: to act as a presence that keeps the Emperors from making any major moves. One Piece is pretty political, to the extent you don't see much in shonen (which I like). Things like this are less clear-cut and based on solid "power levels" and other such things.
As for Ace being Shichibukai level, Ace was beaten by a man who became a Shichibukai because of it (and didn't even have the defensive aspects of a Logia). Coupled with that, a lower ranked (at first) Marine officer was a Logia of the same level, and one of the Shichibukai was a mastered Logia.
What Oda is trying to do is set up characters as great, "romantic" presences. No one split the stratosphere, they split clouds (although I'm sure someone's gonna quote a translation and take it literally, here). The Emperors are being set up as massive presences, yes, but if OP is about anything, it's legends and romance. Look past that, and all we have to go on is what we've seen them do.
And if you want to get into vs. discussions, keep in mind that Croc's water weakness wasn't common knowledge at all. Luffy only found out by accident, and Robin, who was the closest person to him, was the only other one who knew. Also, keep in mind that Crocodile doesn't need to just touch with his hand to dry someone to death; just look at his Barchan, and that fatal sandstorm. This is One Piece; a character isn't going to get "owned" just because he's an old character. The rest of your "vs." points are mere conjecture. And considering Oda has been making a concentrated effort to keep Doflamingo's bounty the highest we've seen seems to indicate something. What, I don't know. But, most of what you're saying regarding his supposed limits are conjecture.
Oh, and it takes the heat of a lightning bolt to turn sand into glass. Even then, it's a fragile glass that just crumbles easily back into sand.
Only the combined effort of the Shickibukai and WG stops the Yonkou from making major moves. Its clear from Moria&Croc's experiences in the Grand Line and New world they don't and do not wish to deal directly with the Yonkou. Moria call the New World a Nightmare, shanks&silver knock people out with their energy(an ability Luffy is only starting to manifest), Luffy shows outright fear of his Grandfather, Silver is said to be 100x stronger than all the rookies, 0 of them want to tangle with an Admiral purely because of those 3 reputations.
You're trying to make them sound more equal when all the signs point to this not being the case. I don't believe the 100x stronger comment is meant to be taken literally, but it does say that Silver(and thus his peers) is supposed to be viewed as on an entirely different level than what we've currently seen. Should have been obvious when WB&Shanks cut the sky. Big guy said clouds, then corrected himself that it was the actually the sky. Don't see how thats a translation error or misquote.
As for Ace, when I say Shickibukai level I mean any fighter that could take a member one on one. Luffy can, are you sayings his brother cannot? BB was smiling and trying to convince Ace to join his crew not defeat him and turn him in. He only decided to seriously take Ace down when he refused at the end of the fight.
Only reason Ace was in a stalemate against Smoker was because neither physical hits or fire could hurt Smoker. Though you have to ask why couldn't Smoker physically hit Ace? Either Ace could disperse into flame to get way from Seastone baton or he Smoker simply couldn't defeat Ace in a melee bout.
As for Croc, its common sense that getting a sand guy wet might cause some problems for him. Just like a large quantity of water may be troublesome for Ace or intense heat may bother Aokiji. Most fighters aren't as gun-ho as Luffy, they woldn't need to be defeated first to figure this kind of stuff out. Lucci figured out Luffy's gears in a few minutes, think it would take that long to dump a bucket of water on Croc then Shigan him in the chest?
Point of the vs. matches was that it was said its silly or impossible to think the Yonkou are drastically stronger than members of the Shickibukai. If plausible scenarios can be made for why they can be outclassed, its not really impossible. I hardly see why its silly to believe Don Flammingo cannot control somebody as strong himself. Sanji&Franky were just examples given if he is only around Moria/Luffy strength so don't dwell on that.
Sure Croc would have a problem with being lit on fire. Would being made out of Rubber really make 200 million bolts ineffective aganst you?
didn't see your post till the previous just quoted you so thats why bringing this back
There is no evidence and pretty sure lots of evidence shwoing otherwise taht the Shichibukai were not given any of those orders.
–- Mihawk: you really think WG would send Mihawk to where people entering GL and sink them. If he is exception to str like you said later, why would he waste on people like Krieg. Pretty sure he was just in area, bored, maybe krieg just pissed him off somehow. just the way he looked, acted, the size of crew ect.
--- Crocodile was not given orders at all for arabasta, he just figured why not do it while there to help out his cause of the rebellion. If he is stopping all the pirates ect. and the Arabastian guards are not ever getting there in time, it keeps the people from thinking they need them. Helps incite the rebellion more, plus makes him out to be hero, so at end of war depending on what he does, people don't come crying to gov about what he did
--- Moria: the WG was basically assuming he was in Florian triangle don't beielve they knew exactly, just assumed due to dissapearances ect. and kinda peiced it together. he was off doing his own thing. And sort of destroying pirates like Croc for his own agenda and not for WG
--- DonFlamingo: if he indeed in charge of slave trade he is doing it for uknown reasons that we know. Most likely for money but who knows.
--- Kuma: As moria stated he is a tricky one, he does what htey say. yet he didn't finish the mission of killing.
basically Shichibukai are pirates that are in a sense like Kuro. Could be sick of being chased or wanted. So they chose to become shichibukai. So they can just freely sail around do what they please, just not against gov. And send a bit of money to gov. or they could be doing it for reasons like BB in that somehow this is a step needed to achieve something to become pirate king.
When did I say the WG ordered them to do any of this? I was just listing their activity in the series. What they do just happens to be beneficial for the Government regardless of their intentions. Guy before was saying it was their jobs to keep the big boys in line when really all we've seen them do is cause rookies all kinds of hell at critical spots in their journey. We pretty much agree on their reasons for their actions.
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@Kidany:
Of course Whtiebeard be arrogant, but I doubt he'd just shove off the Strawhats for no reason. I mean maybe Ace made a passing mention about his "little bro" Luffy, and once Luffy names himself Whitebeard might make a passing mention that he's off to rescue Ace.
About that: I wonder how strong Ace is supposed to be compared to Luffy, on what level he is, that allowed him to become the second commander of WB fleat, considered how arrogant WB is !? :blink:
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Just about all of that was conjecture, so I'm not really going to bother. I will tell you, though, that sand is not flammable, and sand is often used to put out fires.
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Exactly. Aokiji was the first time they were really put in their place. It's likely we'll get another Admiral within the next few chapters, but I doubt the Strawhats will take care of him/her with Raleigh sitting a few feet away. Whitebeard brushing past the Strawhats on the way to save Ace would be so fucking intimidating and epic. Especially since Luffy would have no idea who he is most likely, so for all he knows it's some random fucker who just has a giant aura about him. It would definitely be kind of inspiring to Luffy.
Everyone sans Luffy, Zoro, Chopper would know who Whitebeard is so we can expect freak-outs from the rest of the crew. Well maybe not Robin since she's always stoic or morbidly humorous about everything. They'll recognize the Whitebeard Pirate's flag if they do pass each other without stopping so Luffy will know who it is though.
I just think the conversation would be kind of underwhelming, especially if nothing important was revealed during the conversation.
It would pretty much be
WB : Hey, it's the Strawhat who happens to be the guys brother we're about to save
Luffy : Hey you're Ace's captain
WB : Well I'm gonna go save him
Luffy : K, good luckBut Oda is a much better writer than I, so I'm sure he can do better then that.
Oh for sure, I'm certain they'll be more to their meeting than simply talking about Ace. I mean this is the World's Strongest meeting with the future Pirate King, it won't be anything short of overwhelming.
I don't think Luffy will actually assume the position of being a Yonkou, but he'll be recognized as one. The yonkou probably don't refer to themselves as Yonkou (or do they? I don't feel like re-reading WB/Shanks convo) so the Marines would just label Luffy as WB's replacement in the hierarchy.
Oh okay, I thought you meant Luffy and co. would consider themselves as one of the Emperors, my mistake. I can see the Marines calling them that without the Strawhats' knowledge. I guess it all depends if the remaining Emperors call themselves as such, or if it's just a title they've been dubbed without their say. Whitebeard or Shanks never referred to themselves or each other by that name. We'll have to wait till Kaidou or the last one to know for certain.
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But doesn't sand when it melts that it turns to glass?
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Just about all of that was conjecture, so I'm not really going to bother. I will tell you, though, that sand is not flammable, and sand is often used to put out fires.
Only conjecture in my post is how a fight between someone like Croc and a higher level fighter would go down. Seems your just disregarding all the clear signs of their being a significant gap between Yonkou and those below them.
So you believe Oda is making a concentrated effort to keep Don's bounty the highest but comments like 100x stronger than any Nova or someone like Moria implying the Strawhats struggle with him is nothing compared to whats ahead isn't him trying to make a clear point?
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If Hatchi does die Camie wouldn't have anything keeping her from joining. :getlost:
I think the Yonkou = Admirals + Shichibukai. There might only be four but their influence has to be huge. I bet if they called pirates to arms in the new world more than a few would follow them out of respect, the fame of being one of the crews to assist the yonkou would be pretty sweet. WB has 16 divisions with 16 fairly strong captains too. Maybe the admirals and shichibukai are stronger than the four individually but it's not all just about a few strong people. This is the balance of world they are fighting over right?
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Well in this arc Camie at the moment has the best chance of joining.
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Well I think Bonnie. i mean her and Zoro are basically already dating.
They hugged, she cried on his shoulder. They had an argument where he had no idea what he did wrong.
Basically a married couple right there.
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Well I think Bonnie. i mean her and Zoro are basically already dating.
They hugged, she cried on his shoulder. They had an argument where he had no idea what he did wrong.
Basically a married couple right there.
Are you kidding or are you being serious?
His nen ability as a specialist, Emperor Time, allows him to utilize all the types of nen to 100% efficiency.
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I am being serious of course.
