PEACE TREATY! they have a peace treaty! they are not part of the same organization.
Both are under the flag of the World Government, it's just that one of them is a loose coalition of pirates that they'd rather not deal with.
PEACE TREATY! they have a peace treaty! they are not part of the same organization.
Both are under the flag of the World Government, it's just that one of them is a loose coalition of pirates that they'd rather not deal with.
i havent seen any shichibuka fly the WG flag.
what do you mean by "under the flag of the World Goverment"?
Oh and were learning more about the "Trigger" that the narrator spoke about when Ace pulled out the Spirit Bomb on BB. The first part of the Trigger must be BB becoming a Sichibukai.
She had troubles with Jigoroh, so it's pretty obvious she's not going to clutch Moria.
Yeah, Robin was unable to do anything against a general zombie and a no-named penguin. Her ability isn't the "instant win" thing some think, really.
i havent seen any shichibuka fly the WG flag.
what do you mean by "under the flag of the World Goverment"?
Both the Seven Seas and the Marines are government ran facilities, one a military force and the other a group of privateers.
i havent seen any shichibuka fly the WG flag.
what do you mean by "under the flag of the World Goverment"?
The fact that the WG ,Marines and Shichibukai have to decide together who's the successor of Croc, doesn't make the Shichis an entity on its own.
No matter what , the WG is the one who is pulling the strings.
The fact that the WG give orders to the Shichibukai proves that they are meant to work together. However, the Shichibukai don't give a fuck and do what they want. Of course, the WG don't mind that because of the importance in the balance of the OP world.
But in a way it is more of a peace treaty, as there are "3 great powers" meaning that they are all seperate in terms of ambitions. So the Shichibukai could easily start kicking the fuck out of the marines. But the WG have to keep them sweet.
The fact that the WG ,Marines and Shichibukai have to decide together who's the successor of Croc, doesn't make the Shichis an entity on its own.
No matter what , the WG is the one who is pulling the strings.
This also doesn't make the shichibukai part of the WG. the WG got the peace treaty as a barganing chip to make the shichibukai do certain favours for them. If they step out of line the WG can simply find a replacement then hunt the one that went out of controll down and imprison them.
the WG got the upper hand yes. but they dont have the same goals and thus arent working as one. the shichibukai are just wallowed to work towards their own goals while also contributeing to the WGs goals.
Both the Seven Seas and the Marines are government ran facilities, one a military force and the other a group of privateers.
we know nothing about the exact insight of the WG into the Shichibukai affairs. I would not go so far as to say that we know that the warlords are "goverment run".
This also doesn't make the shichibukai part of the WG. the WG got the peace treaty as a barganing chip to make the shichibukai do certain favours for them. If they step out of line the WG can simply find a replacement then hunt the one that went out of controll down and imprison them.
the WG got the upper hand yes. but they dont have the same goals and thus arent working as one. the shichibukai are just wallowed to work towards their own goals while also contributeing to the WGs goals.
Which means they are in some way a faction of the World Government. They may have their own agendas and never show up for anything, but they were created by the WG in the first place.
the whole deal with privateers was that they were NOT part of the country they were friendly towards. they just didnt attack their boats. (atleast that is how i understood it) if they were part of that country any attack they made would have been a declaration of war.
the whole deal with privateers was that they were NOT part of the country they were friendly towards. they just didnt attack their boats. (atleast that is how i understood it) if they were part of that country any attack they made would have been a declaration of war.
They were given permission by a government to attack foreign vessels. In other words, they were hired by the government, and in essence they were a loose branch of them on the sea being controlled by the main tree to do what they wanted.
The World Government formed the Seven Seas with an intent of getting the strongest pirates off their backs in order to help maintain a fragile balance within the world structure. So the Seven Seas are a part of the World Government, whether they actually follow them to the dot or not.
They were given permission by a government to attack foreign vessels. In other words, they were hired by the government, and in essence they were a loose branch of them on the sea being controlled by the main tree to do what they wanted.
The World Government formed the Seven Seas with an intent of getting the strongest pirates off their backs in order to help maintain a fragile balance within the world structure. So the Seven Seas are a part of the World Government, whether they actually follow them to the dot or not.
Beeing hired suggests some kind of payment for services rendered. (the only exchange i know of in OP, even if i cant recall where it is right now, was from Shichibukai to WG. not the other way around)
Wikipedia quote:(yeah i know how little that weighs)
A privateer was a private warship authorised by a national government
"private" warship. imo same as "not part of the goverment".
For me it requires more then it beeing the goverments idea for the shichibukai to be "part of" the goverment. Just because 2 parties sign a peace treaty doesnt make the party that didn't come up with the idea to be part of the party that did.
Do you get what i am saying? because what you are saying seems rather fuzzy to me.
Beeing hired suggests some kind of payment for services rendered. (the only exchange i know of in OP, even if i cant recall where it is right now, was from Shichibukai to WG. not the other way around)
For me it requires more then it beeing the goverments idea for the shichibukai to be "part of" the goverment. Just because 2 parties sign a peace treaty doesnt make the party that didn't come up with the idea to be part of the party that did.
Do you get what i am saying? because what you are saying seems rather fuzzy to me.
By being a part of the Seven Seas, the pirates are given various rewards and freedoms in exchange for a part of their riches they plunder and relative obedience. This isn't a peace treaty. It's a formation of a group of people under the wing of a larger group. Some may stray away from that wing, but it doesn't change the fact that the group in itself is right where it always is.
We're not talking about two nations deciding not to fight each other, we're talking about a nation deciding to join forces with the other because it could benefit them.
It all comes down to attrition.
I'm sorry I just cant see it like that.
Unforetunatly we aren't going to get any further then this im afraid.
This chapter makes Moria my favorite shichibukai
Also, Odz was cracking me up
If the Shichibukai were part of the World Government, they wouldn't stab it in the back, given half a chance, would they? Because that is the most important reason the Marines won't go after the Yonkou. Even if they'd win, they'd be left crippled and the Shichibukai would take over. It's not even a reliable alliance, more an understanding. You round up some pirates for us, we leave you alone. It would be like giving the mafia free reign in some neighbourhood if they promise not to kill anyone and maintain order a bit.
Blackbeard's bounty is 0 Beri. I wonder how he became one of them with no bounty at all.
Still seems weird, cause he breaks the animal theme that all the Shichibukai have.
If the Shichibukai were part of the World Government, they wouldn't stab it in the back, given half a chance, would they? Because that is the most important reason the Marines won't go after the Yonkou. Even if they'd win, they'd be left crippled and the Shichibukai would take over. It's not even a reliable alliance, more an understanding. You round up some pirates for us, we leave you alone. It would be like giving the mafia free reign in some neighbourhood if they promise not to kill anyone and maintain order a bit.
So just because the Seven Seas is made up of a gaggle of backstabbing pirates automatically means that its not a part of the World Government? It's a faction within it, just like the Marines or Cipher Pol, just with a different purpose.
@Crocodile15:
Blackbeard's bounty is 0 Beri. I wonder how he became one of them with no bounty at all.
Still seems weird, cause he breaks the animal theme that all the Shichibukai have.
Nominated by Lafite (sp?) and decided after the Banaro Island duel.
@Sogeking:
Nominated by Lafite (sp?) and decided after the Banaro Island duel.
The question is why did the Banaro Island duel determine him becoming a member? What's so special about defeating Ace that warrants becoming part of one of the Three World Powers?
^Yeah, that was what I was wondering. I know he was nominated by Laffitte and he defeated Ace. It still seems weird that they'd let him in without any bounty at all.
Well, the World Government has some control over the Shichibukai, but not enough to say the Shichibukai can be counted as law abiding citizens. Besides, the World Government is an instance which has some control over the Shichibukai and the marine, but neither are directly part of it. Them five old geezers, they are directly part of the World Government.
Just what is your definition of "part of" KiPS? I mean you agree on that the warlords doesnt follow orders unless they want to. So just what makes them a part of the goverment? They dont get paid a salary, they arent supervised or regulated, they dont have any carrer opourtunities and they act in contradiction to normal laws.
Well, the World Government has some control over the Shichibukai, but not enough to say the Shichibukai can be counted as law abiding citizens. Besides, the World Government is an instance which has some control over the Shichibukai and the marine, but neither are directly part of it. Them five old geezers, they are directly part of the World Government.
The Gorosei are in control of the Government, which in turn controls the Marines, Cipher Pol, and the Seven Seas as organizations. Note that I'm not talking about individuals here. The members themselves can be as radical as they want (and get away with the majority of it, as per the rules set by the Government), but the group in itself is a faction within a larger faction known as the World Government.
Just what is your definition of "part of" KiPS?
A branch off of the main body, created for some purpose.
A branch off of the main body, created for some purpose.
but… we dont know that. it hasnt been stated like that afaik.
(granted we dont know if its a peace treaty either thats only the conclusion i came to as the shichibukai doesnt fulfill the conditions for me to consider them "part of")
we dont even know who came up with the idea first. could have been a pirate that came with an offer to the WG.
but… we dont know that. it hasnt been stated like that afaik.
How so? We know that the World Government offered a series of conditions to strong pirates, forming the Seven Seas.
(granted we dont know if its a peace treaty either thats only the conclusion i came to as the shichibukai doesnt fulfill the conditions for me to consider them "part of")
What conditions are you talking about? They do exactly what was proposed by the World Government, and are given the rewards. They are as much of a part of the World Government as anything.
we dont even know who came up with the idea first. could have been a pirate that came with an offer to the WG.
Pure speculation, which at the moment is incorrect. There'd be no point in a pirate doing that, while we know that the World Government is desperate to keep the balance in tact through any means.
@Crocodile15:
^Yeah, that was what I was wondering. I know he was nominated by Laffitte and he defeated Ace. It still seems weird that they'd let him in without any bounty at all.
I have a theory: He captured Ace and gave him to be arrested, in change of become of a Shichibukai. So that would be connected with the ruin of balance in the Great Powers that Kuma had mentioned.
How so? We know that the World Government offered a series of conditions to strong pirates, forming the Seven Seas.
That's one way of formulateing it. But you could just as well see it as a buissness deal or peace treaty where they barter for the conditions. WG obviously holds one of the stronger hand with the offer of not chaseing them with the marines.
What conditions are you talking about? They do exactly what was proposed by the World Government, and are given the rewards. They are as much of a part of the World Government as anything.
-top of this page. you quoted that post before i finished with it. they are too free to do what they want to be "part of" imo. WG has no real say in what they do or do not do, even "as an organization".
-obviously they dont do exactly what the WG wants.
-what rewards are you talking about? they arent given anything that isnt a human right. they are however not punished for their actions against the law.
Pure speculation, which at the moment is incorrect. There'd be no point in a pirate doing that, while we know that the World Government is desperate to keep the balance in tact through any means.
Depending on the political situation there could have been a point for Jinbei to do that. (if say he merely attacked humans because humans (pirates) attacked fishman island. After he got a bounty he sought out the WG to make a deal with the humans to only go after pirates if they withdrew the bounty.) But if not a pirate say a bountyhunter that did something illegal came up with it.
What conditions are you talking about? They do exactly what was proposed by the World Government, and are given the rewards. They are as much of a part of the World Government as anything.
No, they don't… They simply don't. They don't even show up when the World Government calls a meeting. That's not doing exactly what was proposed by the World Government. That's doing what is proposed by the World Government if they feel like it.
No, they don't… They simply don't. They don't even show up when the World Government calls a meeting. That's not doing exactly what was proposed by the World Government. That's doing what is proposed by the World Government if they feel like it.
Like I said, that is the individual. We are not talking about an individual, we're talking about a group, and the group was formed by the Government as a section of itself.
as a section of itself.
that is your assumption.
that is your assumption.
That is a fact. Or are you saying a couple pirates just joined together and decided not to do bad anymore, and the Government was just so touched that they decided to let them into their holy city and give them a bunch of privileges?
The only reason they might do everything the World Government wants them to, as a group, is because Bear is a real government dog. I bet if there's something he can't do and the others don't want to do, the World Government gets one big fat "Fuck you".
The only reason they might do everything the World Government wants them to, as a group, is because Bear is a real government dog. I bet if there's something he can't do and the others don't want to do, the World Government gets one big fat "Fuck you".
Yes, that's true. However, this doesn't change the fact that they are still a part of the World Government, as pissy as they may be.
sigh
If you mean to say that the Shichibukai are part of the World Government in the sense of having been formed by the World Gov't. for the purpose of maintaining the balance of power and to police other pirates, then yes, they are a part of the government. They have easy access to Eternal Poses and can acquire inside information about various WG member nations. However, since the WG either will not or cannot force them to obey orders it is more accurate to say that they are under contract with the WG.
Is it just me or this chapter pointed out that the WG actually has a data base that contains every moment of the people that use the Log Poses?
No wonder why they were able to watch the movements of Whitebeard and Shanks. It's nice that Oda revealed such thing since the idea of Marines spying the Emperors in the New World sounded a bit ridiculous.
Anyways, I still see the Schichi as the Lawyers of the WG. You could say that their payment is pretty much the freedom of doing piratecy around the world without anyone bothering them at the price of getting rid of the annoyances like the Strawhats while (Just assumptions) the "trusthworthy" Admirals get to deal with the ones like Dragon or an Emperor that gets out of it's way. The Schichi also have their own morals and possibly give a damn about anything that doesn't affect their own bussines (I doubt Kuma actually cares about the crap of the Balance…), and funny enough, Sengoku seems to hate the idea of relying on them to maintain the order...
But yeah, at the end, you could say that they are part of the WG, even tough we know that they would possibly leave said organization reaches a point of crisis beyond saving...
@Kaimei-Karasuhebi:
Is it just me or this chapter pointed out that the WG actually has a data base that contains every moment of the people that use the Log Poses?
Where do you get that? Log Poses weren't even mentioned this chapter. If you're referring to Kuma knowing the Straw Hats would be with Moria that's just simple deduction. The government knew, because of Ao-Kiji and Garp, that the last place the Straw Hats were seen leaving was Water Seven. It seems common knowledge that Water Seven logs over to Fishman Island. And anybody knowing that would know about the Florian Triangle. And the government probably keeps tabs on their Warlords, so they know Moria is there.
Moria's in the Florian Triangle + The Straw hats going from Water Seven to (most likely) Fishman Island + Seeming awareness of Moria's zombies/shadow power = a high chance of the Straw Hats meeting Moria either by chance or because Moria hunted them down (a little of both, actually).
or because Moria hunted them down
really? you think so? If that was so, one would think he would have been more prepared for these specific characters, yet Absalom and Perona still had to do their snooping.
@Kaimei-Karasuhebi:
and funny enough, Sengoku seems to hate the idea of relying on them to maintain the order…
Well, that's a shocker, isn't it? Not being too keen on relying on someone who you know will just kick you when you're down.
@Crocodile15:
^Yeah, that was what I was wondering. I know he was nominated by Laffitte and he defeated Ace. It still seems weird that they'd let him in without any bounty at all.
It's quite epic if ya ask me, he will always be looked down because of his bounty, so he will always have surprising element.
I'm So Pumped For the Next Chapter Now There Is Something Huge Happening in The Next Chapter And Luffy Getting Ready To Fight Seriously Finally
And Kuma Isn't gonna Join The Fight :)
really? you think so? If that was so, one would think he would have been more prepared for these specific characters, yet Absalom and Perona still had to do their snooping.
Hmm I think what sgamer82 was trying to say that Moria sort of hunted them because he laid the fireworks trap for them and went straight for them when it activated.
The question is why did the Banaro Island duel determine him becoming a member? What's so special about defeating Ace that warrants becoming part of one of the Three World Powers?
The way I see it :
WG was desperately looking for a pirate to fill the gap left by Croc.
BB nominated himself for that position.
BB needed to do an operation that would make him renown and feared –> just what Sengoku wanted, so he looked for a strong pirate who's bounty was over 100mill ---> Luffy passed by and BB tried to capture/kill him for that purpose ---> Luffy escaped ---> BB continued searching ---> Ace came by ---> BB killed Ace and BINGO: first target attained: (to become renown and feared) ---> Sengoku now believes BB would be an excellent Shichibukai ---> Marines agreed, (some) Shichibukai agreed , WG agreed ---> BAM : BB is a shichibukai now.
What I want to now is what BB's first goal was before Croc got fired.
really? you think so? If that was so, one would think he would have been more prepared for these specific characters, yet Absalom and Perona still had to do their snooping.
a high chance of the Straw Hats meeting Moria either by chance or because Moria hunted them down (a little of both, actually).
I stated Moria hunting them down as something the World Government could reasonably assume was occurring. I also point out it's a bit of both. The Straw Hats by chance came upon the rigged barrel in the water and, the moment they opened it and activated the trap Thriller Bark was hunting them down. The Thriller Bark crew didn't immediately know it was the Straw Hat crew, but I doubt Moria was complaining when he learned it.
As for preparation/research, seeing that Thriller Bark knew about Enies Lobby, it seems they had, at the very least, as much info as the newspapers and wanted posters gave out. Beyond that, would research could be done beyond seeking out government sources? Would Moria do that, given his attitude toward the government and Kuma this chapter? Also worthy of note is that the Thriller Bark crew has been pretty bad about overestimating themselves/underestimating their opponents. The only one who took his opponent seriously from the start was Ryuma.
But that's just my opinion. I could be wrong.
One of the small worries Iv'e had was that Oda would start carelessly wiping out Shichibukai like Kishimoto's been doing wih the Akatsuki in Naruto.
But Oda's clearly showing the weight and care of Shichibukai defeats with Kuma and Moria's conversation.
Confirming what we already knew, Oda knows how to tell stories.
I wonder what Nami is doing ? All the treasures are on board of Thousand Sunny so she doesn't have to take care of that…
About Kuma: he's still so mysterious, I don't think we'll learn much about him because the SH have to hurry now. If he gets in the fight, it will be too long... I hope he will only save the day for Moria, teleporting the both of them at the last second; maybe after some big character will appear (you know, Shanks, WB, Dragon, ... Would be nice if it was Mihawk ;-))
I wonder what Nami is doing ? All the treasures are on board of Thousand Sunny so she doesn't have to take care of that…
About Kuma: he's still so mysterious, I don't think we'll learn much about him because the SH have to hurry now. If he gets in the fight, it will be too long... I hope he will only save the day for Moria, teleporting the both of them at the last second; maybe after some big character will appear (you know, Shanks, WB, Dragon, ... Would be nice if it was Mihawk ;-))
Nami is hunting down Luffy to warn him about Kuma
Good job Oda-sensei. He kept Brooke and Cindry away enough that the ending page was actually a surprise when I read it. Nice to see all the SH's face off against and end arc villain again ala Arlong. That doesn't happen enough imho.