I am one of those who does not belive the spidermonkey has Luffy's shadow. Luffy was still in the coffin being transported when Teleran appeared. The shadow Luffy might appear in the door after Teleran is defeated, and we might get a glimpse of the shadowless Luffy behind him….If any of that made any sense.
Chapter 452: "Jigoro of the Wind" Discussion
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Like you're one to talk.
That'd be fun if Luffy's shadow was used to animate the marionette Hogback was working on a couple of chapters ago. The Strawhats would be in deep shit then. And then… Pervoskeleton to the rescue.
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@Impel:
The whole team is really down. Maybe if Franky had a chainsaw attachment, none of this would be a problem.
Oh ho, who says he doesn't? Maybe he's carrying one…somewhere.
I'd hope Oda would do that. With all this horror parody I'd love to see a parody on that...movie with the chainsaw hand guy. I forget it's name but...chainsaw hand.
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Oh ho, who says he doesn't? Maybe he's carrying one…somewhere.
I'd hope Oda would do that. With all this horror parody I'd love to see a parody on that...movie with the chainsaw hand guy. I forget it's name but...chainsaw hand.
Parody does not equal cliche'. Don't make Oda turn out to be an idea snatcher.
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Do you mean Ash from the Evil Dead series, onemoment?
Following the tradition of Luffy getting thrown into the sea in the Arlong arc and getting stuck in that snake in Skypeia, Luffy gets stuck in a coffin. I'm getting a bit tired of this happening every other arc.
Well you all know I'm not fond of chapters that focus soley on battles, and this is no exception. I'm pretty disappointed.
@Impel:The whole team is really down. Maybe if Franky had a chainsaw attachment, none of this would be a problem.
Oh God no.
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Oh ho, who says he doesn't? Maybe he's carrying one…somewhere.
I'd hope Oda would do that. With all this horror parody I'd love to see a parody on that...movie with the chainsaw hand guy. I forget it's name but...chainsaw hand.
how can you forget
"Hail to the King, Baby!"
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@Pass:
Do you mean Ash from the Evil Dead series, onemoment?
Following the tradition of Luffy getting thrown into the sea in the Arlong arc and getting stuck in that snake in Skypeia, Luffy gets stuck in a coffin. I'm getting a bit tired of this happening every other arc.
NONSENCE Luffy was also stuck in the sand during the Alabasta arch.
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Are you people really thinking that Talaran is made from Luffy's shadow? Luffy is still in the coffin and shouting when Talaran appeared, so there's no way it can be Luffy. Also, their ship as caught in a giant spider web in the beginning, and it's safe to assume that the web was made by Talaran, proving his existence before Luffy was caught.
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Are you people really thinking that Talaran is made from Luffy's shadow? Luffy is still in the coffin and shouting when Talaran appeared, so there's no way it can be Luffy. Also, their ship as caught in a giant spider web in the beginning, and it's safe to assume that the web was made by Talaran, proving his existence before Luffy was caught.
Wait… I thought that Luffy was turned into the Talaran...
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Haha if Luffy gets that Frankenstein body it would be too funny if it was like tht halloween special in the Simpsons where Homer gets his brain put in that Robot. Eating donuts and slacking off.
Too funny lol
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this is the weirdest thing to read through, I'm so confused.
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Liked:
Luffy getting pwned.
Leaving us with second-string characters. No Zoro, no Sanji, and no Luffy to steal the show with massive powers.
Didn't like:
The inevitable Franky/Robin fangirl shrieking which will come.
The whole "Zoro?" sequence. After 400 chapters, they STILL automatically figure anyone saying "36-pound-cannon" is Zoro? I'd expect a 59-year-old zombie to at least SOUND different from young, non-zombie Zoro.
[edit]
I guess after reading other posts, I should clarify. I don't think Jigorou is Zoro. I interpret him as a swordsman trained in a similar form.Evidence point: He actually HAS three swords. Wasn't Zoro short two now?
What I loved:
Zombies with water pails.
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It's extremely fast this week. Looks like they got into great trouble.
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How else do you explain 36 Pound Cannon. Just because Zoro doesn't have 3 swords at the moment doesn't mean he forgot how to use 3 Sword Style.
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Liked:
Luffy getting pwned.
Leaving us with second-string characters. No Zoro, no Sanji, and no Luffy to steal the show with massive powers.
Didn't like:
The inevitable Franky/Robin fangirl shrieking which will come.
The whole "Zoro?" sequence. After 400 chapters, they STILL automatically figure anyone saying "36-pound-cannon" is Zoro? I'd expect a 59-year-old zombie to at least SOUND different from young, non-zombie Zoro.
[edit]
I guess after reading other posts, I should clarify. I don't think Jigorou is Zoro. I interpret him as a swordsman trained in a similar form.Evidence point: He actually HAS three swords. Wasn't Zoro short two now?
It's almost definitely Zoro's spirit. Notice the theme of the arc: Ryuma with Brook's trademark speech, ugly little thing with Sanji's style and speech, and this geezer copying "the young geezer's" style, speech, and doing a move Zoro coined with what's assuredly his santoryu. If you copy someone's fighting style, it wouldn't usually matter what physical state they're in, since you're not copying their actual body. Thus, if this guy has his shadow and a spare sword, it wouldn't matter that Zoro himself is short one.
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How else do you explain 36 Pound Cannon. Just because Zoro doesn't have 3 swords at the moment doesn't mean he forgot how to use 3 Sword Style.
"Someone used Shigan! It must be Lucci."
That's a comparable version of the argument.
It's entirely possible, and I'd say likely, that the same school of swordsmanship, which includes the 36-72-108 pound cannon attacks, could have been taught to several students. Most fighting arts are passed down over generations. The grandfather of Zoro's sensei could have taught Jigorou.
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"Someone used Shigan! It must be Lucci."
That's a comparable version of the argument.
It's entirely possible, and I'd say likely, that the same school of swordsmanship, which includes the 36-72-108 pound cannon attacks, could have been taught to several students. Most fighting arts are passed down over generations. The grandfather of Zoro's sensei could have taught Jigorou.
Except that Lucci outright mentioned that Rokushiki was an inheritance. Not only the Cipher Pol agents knew them, but grunts like Coby and Helmeppo.
Zoro was not taught three sword style. What's more, he wasn't even taught dual swords. And certainly not such an advanced technique. Else I'm sure he would have used a cutting wave before testing the Hawk Wave.
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Buccaneer has it down. If sanji's, zoro's, and Brooke's personality/skills are all seen in zombies we can assume that there is a personality transfer of some sort going on.
The question is what is going to happen when luffy's personality and fighting techniques are mimicked by a zombie? From what we understand, the zombie will steal the skills and personality but NOT get luffy's gomu abilities. So will we see an attempt at gomu gomu pistol that accidentally breaks a few stitches and launches a meaty dead arm across the room after which he demands much meat to no end?
One possible outcome from all of this is that we might get some resolution to the overly rehashed debates over how "strong" each of the strawhats are. In other words, how much of their damage dealing capability is due to the ir technique and how much to the physical strength of their bodies?
For example, dog penguin accomplished a sanji strength kick despite having tiny little webbed foot penguin legs. However, old man nazi-stache's 36 pound cannon seemed markedly weaker than zoro's version. Does this mean that sanji is a weaker fighter with better skills while zoro relies more on brute strength and fancy swords?
okay, probably not, but in any case it's food for thought.
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It's like saying that when some unknown voice says "Gomu Gomu no Bazooka" they shouldn't assume it's Luffy.
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Why do I get the feeling we'll be seeing the return of Sogeking soon?
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Why do I get the feeling we'll be seeing the return of Sogeking soon?
Because you're not writing the manga.
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I guess I tend to think that the unexpected is pretty likely.
The Moria attack plan can exploit several things:
1. Divide-and-conquer
2. Confusion
3. A seemingly endless supply of zombies which can suit almost any specific need.
4. Free-floating ghosts, picture ghosts, and various other spectres who could gather intelligence on incoming groups.I'd say that you could very effectively use 3 and 4 to achieve 1 and 2 with zombies which look or act even a touch like other crew members– after all, all they need is a few seconds of confusion or startling to break an organized group up.
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HAH! people do die in One Piece. A funeral in the cover story proves it.
Except that that was in a flashback, wasn't it? So it still fits in with Oda's "no kill in the present tense – but ok to kill in the past tense" policy.
Considering that the zombies can not be killed, what do you think is the likelihood of a final scene where the Mugiwara crew has to hold off the zombie generals so that Luffy can force Moria to remove the shadow curse? I mean, if franky can not easily defeat a generic armored zombie general, then who among the strawhats is going to be able to take and keep them down?
Good question! The only ways we've seen them defeated in the past are with fire and with endurance (out-running them, out-fighting them, etc) or with a huge power imbalance in the favor of the living, not the zombie. But I doubt fire, endurance or power imbalance will be enough when the big guns on the zombie crew are called in to fight whoever's left of the Mugiwara crew. So how will they win, other than by somehow tricking Moria/Hogback/Perona to release the shadows back to their owners? The only other option that's been mentioned so far is Brook-ex-machina. Neither of them "feels" right to me yet. But I don't see Oda doing the other thing either : killing off all of the zombies so that the Mugiwara can have their shadows back. Damn, this arc really is hard to second guess!
If zoro and hitlerstache have the same moves, who will win in an inevitable fight between them? Can these guys be defeated? While the zombie generals do seem tougher than the captains and vice captains of last arc, it's really not a matter of raw power, it's a matter of endurance.
Well, based on what we've seen in Skypiea, Arlong Park and Alabasta, it's probably safe to say that if any of the Mugiwara is well-known for "fight endurance", it's Zoro – even moreso than Luffy sometimes -- so it's possible he could wear Zorombie down with constant fighting. Especially if the Zorombie has the body of an old man -- even though it's been recently "upgraded" with the moves/spirit of 19-year-old ... I think, of the two sword-fighting zombies, I'm more worried about Ryuma at this point. He seems like a stronger, more serious, and more important foe for Zoro ... Of course there's always the wild-card: Lola the Hog. She has a sword too, so maybe Oda will really twist the knife in us by making THAT be Zoro's toughest battle. ;) I'll laugh if it turns out that she's the keeper of Kitetsu 2 instead of Ryuma.
My screen name is even the genus of my favorite invasive species.
A-ha! So that's it. I was wondering … great choice of avatar then.
(oh, if you were wondering : "dinty" is from the amusing old comic strip "Bringing Up Father" by George McManus. Dinty's tavern is the safe-haven for Jiggs and his pals when high society gets to be too much for them). -
Franky: No, this one exceeds the scale of normal insects!! It's a monster spider!!
Insects? :sad:
And just when I started to like Franky…By the way, It looks like Luffy already has musician. While Franky might not be exactly a pro, would they need another one?
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Except that that was in a flashback, wasn't it? So it still fits in with Oda's "no kill in the present tense – but ok to kill in the past tense" policy.
Shura
neway I wonder how many chapters the spider will last for.
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Thank you for the awesome chapter! This arc is EXTREMELY unpredictable! I dunno about any 1 on 1 fights anymore. I'm through predicting! XD
BTW, since dinty and boiga revealed the origins of their user names so will I! Leaf Cable is the name of the main character in a book called "Satan Burger". The author is Carlton Mellick 3. He writes all sorts of bizarre fiction, mostly with morbid and off-the-wall themes.
As for Leaf, he's some junky that frequently has out-of-body experiences. Not much of a hero or role-model, but that's why "Satan Burger" is a good read! I highly recommend it! -
By the way, It looks like Luffy already has musician. While Franky might not be exactly a pro, would they need another one?
But all Franky does is play his guitar, and only at certain comical moments. He's not a musician by trade. However, we still haven't seen Brook demonstrate his musician skills yet. I'll bet he's way better than Franky though. Franky's better off being the shipwright anyway.
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Shura
Did we ever get a confirmation from Oda on that one? Or is this just an "out-of-sight-obviously-must-be-dead" assumption? Not trying to be sarcastic here, I honestly can't remember. Guess I need to read that part of the story again.
The question is what is going to happen when luffy's personality and fighting techniques are mimicked by a zombie? From what we understand, the zombie will steal the skills and personality but NOT get luffy's gomu abilities. So will we see an attempt at gomu gomu pistol that accidentally breaks a few stitches and launches a meaty dead arm across the room after which he demands much meat to no end?
This is what I'm expecting to happen actually, because if the shadow ends up in a body that is physically well-suited for it, the zombie will be very difficult to battle, but that if the shadow ends up in a body that isn't well suited for it, the zombie's attacks ought to be a lot weaker than the Mugiwara themselves.
That's an interesting point about how Sanji's shadow succeeded in spite of his zombie-body's diminutive size and tiny feet. But I wonder if Zoro's cannon move is less effective because of the following things (1) old geezer zombie probably doesn't have enough arm strength for it – even Zoro had to push on one of his arms with his other arm for extra strength/speed the first time he tried a cannon move (2) lesser quality swords maybe don't cut the air as cleanly or move as quickly? Just a few thoughts.
What would have been REALLY scary would have been if Zoro's shadow ended up in Ryuma's body, since we've seen that Ryuma is already highly skilled in cannon-type moves w/out Zoro's influence.
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Sweet chapter! Plus, Robin fights again with Franky! Yay! (Sighs at the usage of exclamation marks…)
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Its so great when Franky pulls out his guitar :D. Since we have Zoro, Sanji and Luffy zombiefied(or whatever happened to them) its finnaly time for the others to save the day, maybe Brook will play an important role in that too.
I can't wait to see the Luffy Zombie.
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Except that that was in a flashback, wasn't it? So it still fits in with Oda's "no kill in the present tense – but ok to kill in the past tense" policy.
Here's one: Mr. 11.
Also this is messed up now. If Ryuuma actually WAS animated with Brooke's shadow and shadows use attacks from the user than Brooke is a swordsman.
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Did we ever get a confirmation from Oda on that one? Or is this just an "out-of-sight-obviously-must-be-dead" assumption? Not trying to be sarcastic here, I honestly can't remember. Guess I need to read that part of the story again.
That's an interesting point about how Sanji's shadow succeeded in spite of his zombie-body's diminutive size and tiny feet. But I wonder if Zoro's cannon move is less effective because of the following things (1) old geezer zombie probably doesn't have enough arm strength for it – even Zoro had to push on one of his arms with his other arm for extra strength/speed the first time he tried a cannon move (2) lesser quality swords maybe don't cut the air as cleanly or move as quickly? Just a few thoughts.
What would have been REALLY scary would have been if Zoro's shadow ended up in Ryuma's body, since we've seen that Ryuma is already highly skilled in cannon-type moves w/out Zoro's influence.
If I remenber correctly the Skypians said they sent the Priest "cloud drifting" which is pretty much a death sentence but no killing.
People still die in OP though, not just flashbacks but the people that die are more background characters, eg Mr.11, people in Arabasta civil war, those pig pirates, most likely the ship Wiper destroyed
Also that old man though, Jiguroh, I think he has the potential to be really strong. 7000 pirates! even if they were weak, killing 7000 is well, insane! Im kinda glad Zoro got his shadow taken by him. I think hes a pretty damn respectable swordsman (except for the weird look but haha I like that too ). Still Ryuuma most likely outclasses him.
Perhaps the reason why the 36 pound cannon though wasnt also as strong because of the code, its shameful to attack from behind. I think he was just using it as an entrance, not to attack.
@ultimateclima:
Here's one: Mr. 11.
Also this is messed up now. If Ryuuma actually WAS animated with Brooke's shadow and shadows use attacks from the user than Brooke is a swordsman.
I think when you get the shadow, you get an intermediate of the two people. We have only pretty much seen 3 shadows reincarnations in action, Ryuuma, Sanji penguin/dog, and Jiguroh
A penguin/ dog to begin with dosent really have any fighting styles so I think Sanji's combat style was dominant
Zoro and Jiguroh however are compatible
Brooke though is still too much of a mystery, but maybe since hes so light on his feet, it added to how light and quick Ryuuma was? though its likely he was already extremely quick.
Maybe though their is some will in the zombie and they only adapt the combat styles that make them stronger? so in the case of Ryuuma maybe he was superior to Brooke in combat in every way their wasnt a necessity to take any of his fighting attributes.
Its a huge mystery now but Im sure it will be cleared up by Oda some time. -
Good chapter thanks to everyone involved getting it out. I have to say i'm very surprised that Luffy got taken. I really thought that just like the other arcs he would be one of the last men standing along with robin and the others. Though it seems that everyone that had to be rescued at some point will be returning the favour (bar zorro). At least it would be nice to see the ones left try and take on the bosses.
Also was it just me that thought the spider looks a lot like luffy?. I love the spider.
Anyway nice to see Robin do some fighting be it little.
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Shivertwitch Spider Monkey… And I thought Lola was creepy... o.o
@Kma:
People still die in OP though, not just flashbacks but the people that die are more background characters, eg Mr.11, people in Arabasta civil war, those pig pirates, most likely the ship Wiper destroyed
Don't forget Ace. ;)
…
... Cries
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Anyone know where the four-armed guy went? He got introduced some of the zombies that attacked the Luffy/Robin/Franky group, but he ain't there. That John guy is though and he wasn't one of the ones who got beat up by Luffy, Franky and Robin, so I hope he will get his very own fight.
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Jigorou looks like T-Bone with a Hitler mustache. And he apparantly has Zoro's shadow attached to him. I wonder what'll happen to Luffy now?
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@ultimateclima:
Here's one: Mr. 11.
As well as The Nyaban Brothers, Commodore Purin-Purin, The Tsugemere Squad… too bad they had small roles and are almost forgottten.
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As well as The Nyaban Brothers, Commodore Purin-Purin, The Tsugemere Squad… too bad they had small roles and are almost forgottten.
Can we really be sure Nyaban brothers or Purin-purin died? What's the tsugemere squad?
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Wow that was out early this week. Thanks guys! but i though there was no OP this week? so does this mean no OP next week???
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Wath this, we have to facts:
first Moria is the peson, which can steal shadows
second dog faced pinguin, Jigorou and Ryuma have the personality and fight abilities of our friends ( i hope everybody know )Now my theory
Sanji and Zoro get lost and were brought to moria. They fight with him and loses their shadows. The thing with transforming shadows to the zombies is unclear. And now we have Luffy in this coffin, somehow he can escape and rescue Sanji and Zoro. He meets ub with with moria and fight with him. During this time the other strawhets have to fight the zombies. Only if Luffy wins the zombie generals will be beaten, since they are immortal.Sorry for my english and its just a idea
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You know, Robin's my favorite character, but her fights always shine better in the Anime. Franky, on the other hand, has awesome fights, be it manga OR Anime.
So Luffy has been taken away now. I wonder what Moria will use his Kage Kage no Mi to stuff Luffy's shadow into? We shall see, we shall see…
On the other hand, it's also a chance for more Franky x. Robin pairing. There was someone (I can't remember who) who pointed out the obvious romance between them in Enies Lobby. Now it's time for it to pan out, since the two are by themselves. Franky gets to be the knight in shining armor (well, speedo in this case) again, protecting Robin from harm. How classic.
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i think luffy will not be able to escape the coffin. and will be introduce in the next chapter. (since every person so far who was missing in the last chapter is introduced afterwards, except brook). the question is in what form? that i don't have a clue.
i'm starting like franky more, especially with the guitar-playing and all. that was really great. :wub:
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I didn´t read most of the thread so sorry if it already has been said, but I just have to give credit to Oda (once again) for how Luffy´s capture was handled. At first, when I saw the "let me go" panel I was like "oh come on, Luffy can always escape something like that with Fuseen" but then I realized that he´s wearing that heavy armor that probably hinders him from doing so. Great stuff.
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Yeah, it seems like the crew members that got taken all got taken cause they're retarded. Sanji probably got fan-serviced by Cindry, Zoro gets lost, and Luffy was wearing armor.
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@Impel:
Yeah, it seems like the crew members that got taken all got taken cause they're retarded. Sanji probably got fan-serviced by Cindry, Zoro gets lost, and Luffy was wearing armor.
Well, we should have known that already. Sanji, Zoro, and Luffy aren't the smartest of the crew.
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Helps lieju glare at franky. ARACHNID! ITS AN ARACHNID!
(just think Lieju is cool ^^)
how many zombie generals are there now? (are we counting absolom and perona too?) i see 13 on page 10 spread. cant tell if the impaled one franky fights is there but the zoro one seems to be in the background, the spidermonkey
gunslinger seems to be missing aswell as lola the warthog. vbmenu_register("postmenu_514402", true); -
@Kma:
If I remenber correctly the Skypians said they sent the Priest "cloud drifting" which is pretty much a death sentence but no killing.
True, but we never got confirmation of that. I mean, getting hit by a train sounds like a death-sentence to me, but we've seen Franky and the Frog both survive that. And when Brahm got hit with that first cannon move, he flew back a few feet and was bleeding, yet he was up and walking around and recovered enough to be Zoro's drinking buddy at the end of the arc. It certainly looked as if Mr.11 was going to die, and the Eraser pirates as well, but again, we can only assume, not confirm. If a bird-man can survive a bomb blast that would have leveled a country, then we know we can't make easy assumptions about living and dying in this story.
I agree with you about Alabasta though – Cobra says something (I forget exactly how it goes) towards the end of the arc about overcoming losses and rebuilding, and I always took that to mean that "losses" were deaths from the fighting.
7000 pirates! even if they were weak, killing 7000 is well, insane! Im kinda glad Zoro got his shadow taken by him. I think hes a pretty damn respectable swordsman (except for the weird look but haha I like that too ). Still Ryuuma most likely outclasses him.
That's true. And as Natli pointed out, his number is lower than some of the other zombies – so perhaps Hogback made the zombie earlier, but was waiting for the right kind of pirate (e.g. a bad-ass swordsman) to inhabit that body. I'll admit, I could be blinded by the freakiness of Jigorou's look when I say that Ryuuma is the stronger of the two -- but I just don't feel that same "chills up the spine" vibe from Jigorou that I get from Ryuuma, so that's why I'm inclined to think that Ryuuma will be the more difficult fight.
I think he was just using it as an entrance, not to attack.
Good point. We'll see how it compares to Ryuuma's cannon when Jigorou aims it a someone, and not just uses it to announce his arrival, as it were.
Maybe though their is some will in the zombie and they only adapt the combat styles that make them stronger? so in the case of Ryuuma maybe he was superior to Brooke in combat in every way their wasnt a necessity to take any of his fighting attributes.
This is an interesting idea also, and I like it a lot – but I still want to see things like boiga previously suggested, where someone with a non-sretchy body tries to do a GomuGomu and loses an arm in the process, etc.
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Can we really be sure Nyaban brothers or Purin-purin died? What's the tsugemere squad?
I'm sure that Purin-Purin died. When Hatchan and the others wrecked his ship, he and his subordinates got by the whirlpool and vanished. The Tsugemere Squad is a group of four strong Alabasta soldiers who tried to defeat Crocodile.