@Fire Fist:
a list of BS.
I'm gonna start calling you Neck, since I just like the ring of it.
@Fire Fist:
a list of BS.
I'm gonna start calling you Neck, since I just like the ring of it.
Holy crap this is some SERIOUS stretching.
1. Hero introduced ( Son Goku, Luffy)
Um, this isn't just in DBZ, it's in EVRY SINGLE STORY involving a main character. How can you even list this
2. Hero #2 introduced (Son Gohan, Zoro)
So the hero can't have any friends or acquaintances without them being hero #2? And hero #2 was Piccolo. Raditz anyone…
3. Son of former opponent/acquaintance turns good (Piccolo, Usopp) Just because Luffy knew Shanks and by chance MIGHT have know Yassop (more than just knowing of him)?!
4. Random generic characters join (Tienshinhan/Yamcha/Chaiozu, Nami/Sanji/Chopper)
Did you forget the part where Nami, Sanji and Chopper have CRUCIAL roles in the crew. They couldn't have even made it into the grand line without Nami! And without Chopper they would have probably died a while ago
5. Villian owns everyone but main hero (Nappa, Arlong) Yet again, extreme stretching. Sanji wasn't owned by Arlong, Zoro was owned by Mihawk not Arlong. The only instance of this MAYBE was with Enel
6. Hero #1 owns said bad guy. So do Hero #2, #3, #4, #5, and #6. Who else but the hero is supposed to own the bad guy?
5. 3rd main character introduced as bad guy (Vegeta, Robin) Only valid point thus far
6. Main character's boss has a whole crapload of badguys, including an elite squad (Ginyu Squad, Officer Agents). Luffy has no boss.
7. Hero, Hero #2, Hero #3 (still bad guy) and Hero #3's boss proceed to own everyone; Boss owns his men who failed him. And the OP equivalent?
8. Hero #3 attempts to betray/defeat his boss, gets owned. (Vegeta/Frieza, Robin/Crocodile)
Frieza wasn't Vegeta's boss…
9. Main Hero owns Hero #3's boss with some new power move (Super Saiyan, Gomu Gomu no Storm) Luffy uses a new move every arc…
10. Hero #3 joins by default. (Vegeta, Robin)
2nd valid point
I seriously think you were reaching on a lot of those points. Any connections were very distance or common in not just DBZ but a lot of things
I don't think there's a small chance to OP become like DBZ, 'cause at some point DBZ doesn't had a goal anymore. It's was just about the fightings, since to find the balls was'nt that hard anymore.
This is the first and most important difference between this two series. OP (or Luffy more specific) have a goal, to become the King of The Pirates, or better, to find the One Piece, and then become the king.
Many pirates are looking for the same thing. There's another thing: in OP the actions of the characters affects the world. It's more and more clear that there'll have at some point of the manga a great war or something like that. The conflicts are more and more conected.
In DBZ Toriyama hasn't a goal anymore, it was just about fighting. It doesn't change the fact that DBZ was a great manga and still is. And all shonen manga will suffer some kind of influence.
But it's just influence. In DBZ it was action and action full time. In OP we have more adventures. I think that's the greatest difference between them: one was action, the other one is adventure.
@Fire Fist:
Oh, but it has:
1. Hero introduced ( Son Goku, Luffy)That's very generic
2. Hero #2 introduced (Son Gohan, Zoro)Also very generic
3. Son of former opponent/acquaintance turns good (Piccolo, Usopp)Wasn't piccolo and the old yamek one and the same? if not then okay, plus Piccolo tried to basically kill all of them.
4. Random generic characters join (Tienshinhan/Yamcha/Chaiozu, Nami/Sanji/Chopper)Comparing those characters to Nami/Sanji/Chopper…wow. They're not even half as generic or useless as those were.
5. Villian owns everyone but main hero (Nappa, Arlong)At least though the other Straw Hats get battles as well and they win
6. Hero #1 owns said bad guy. very generic #3
5. 3rd main character introduced as bad guy (Vegeta, Robin)okay, but Robin is not the third main character, she's the 7th. All the SHs are main characters, or at least everyone except for Luffy are just as important to the plot unlike DBZ.
6. Main character's boss has a whole crapload of badguys, including an elite squad (Ginyu Squad, Officer Agents). Very generic #4
7. Hero, Hero #2, Hero #3 (still bad guy) and Hero #3's boss proceed to own everyone; Boss owns his men who failed him.Who's hero three? Very confused about this one. If it's Robin she didn't own anybody special and everyone did their share of the part not just Zoro/Luffy. Plus only Luffy got owned the rest didn't even try to fight.
8. Hero #3 attempts to betray/defeat his boss, gets owned. (Vegeta/Frieza, Robin/Crocodile)Okay true but almost every bad villain turning good does this. generic #5
9. Main Hero owns Hero #3's boss with some new power move (Super Saiyan, Gomu Gomu no Storm) Generic #6
10. Hero #3 joins by default. (Vegeta, Robin)Okay, that's similar.
And you know the rest.
This is probably the most quoted quote ever in a thread. And if there are similarities, I'm completely fine with that. Just as long as its not the same generic exact storyline or attacks. coughwindshurikencough
One Piece is just like any other shonen out there. It follows the same basic formula (albeit with a twist every now and then). One Piece is just like all the other countless shonen, only difference is, for the most part OP does just about everything well.
Also, the similiarities between Z and OP are obvious. OP has the good traits of Z while leaving some of the bad traits behind. And also, DBZ Pwns U All.
I don't know if anyone will agree with this but…
To me, everyone of the Strawhats feels like a main character more or less. I think what Oda does so well is creating likeable characters. I mean in DBZ those cheerleaders lack personality and originality and thats why they probaly became cheerleaders in the end.
However in One Piece, everyone gets their own arc. It helps understand them so much more.
To me the main character in One Piece isnt Luffy. It's the Strawhats. The collective group is the protagonist. Whenever I see Oda's colourwalks thats the impression I get.
If by the end of the series, the weaker people become "cheerleaders," thats OK because although One Piece is a Shonen they arent as focused on fights like the others. I don't like Nami, Chopper, Ussopp for their fights, I like them for what they do outside of combats. So if they become passive in upcoming battles they will still retain those attributes that I like about them.
EDIT: Also in one SBS Oda mentioned its against his policy to create characters he does not like. So I doubt that he will make any of the Strawhats into useless characters. Look at his side stories, he just can't leave other characters completely out .
@Fire Fist:
Yeah, you really don't know your shonen manga, do you? While Hokuto no Ken started it all, DBZ was a big inspiration for a lot of manga/anime. Hell, even the character designs are the EXACT SAME as DBZ.
I know that anime/mangas are inspired and such by DBZ, but I don't like the whole "everyone has the same power and it's just muscles clashing with muscles" scheme.
It isn't exactly the same as DBZ but it's similar and so are almost all fighting manga's. They all follow a basic formula, but they are all executed differently.
People compare things to DBZ since it's like the most successful manga and anime ever (depending on your tatses). Almost all manga's follow an adaptation of those points FFA made. Not in that exact form but alot of idea's are used from it.
They then expand on that adding their own idea's and you then have a new manga. No manga is completely original these days and by adding idea's from other manga's you get fans from other series interested in yours.
Those are just archetypes…
But I think One piece is not that close to DB(Z/GT/whatever) since in One Piece, luffy doesn't grow extra techniques out of thin air, they explained them like how he defeated Croc. There was nothing new there. Except he used water and shit wherein DBZ Goku suddenly became a Super Saiyan (the only explanation they have is that everytime a Saiyan escapes death, he/she grows stronger...). Another similarity I guess is how no one dies for real. I mean yeah sure the bad guys go to hell (in dbz) but wtf, one guy wishes them out of hell and they're there again. Other than that I really can't see the comparison between DBZ and OP. Goku always saves the world wherein OP luffy aims to be a Pirate King and he doesn't give a shit about the world (like how he wouldn't save a town unless someone asks for it or some one pisses him or something like that.) Another one is Robin never fought luffy or his crew compared to Vegeta actually getting beaten up by Goku. etc. And another difference is no one in One Piece can destroy the world. Unless of course One Piece (manga) ends but TOEI decides they want to make the show going and space pirates come and *hit.
I think Bleach is going DBz tho.
Okay, ocean deleted the quote, I guess it's not as harmless then I thought, even with all of that "***". Still that guy is wild.
Anyway FFA:
1. Hero introduced ( Son Goku, Luffy): Dude, in every series a protagoinst is always going to be introduced. That comment is pointless and has nothing to do with Dragon Ball
2. Hero #2 introduced (Son Gohan, Zoro):Wow, I felt pride emitting from you, my gut tells me that your thinking like this: "I'm full of knowledge and I'm the smartest, no one can surpass me!" Zoro is not hero No. 2, that's just you overanalyzing everything
3. Son of former opponent/acquaintance turns good (Piccolo, Usopp): How dare you compare Usopp to Piccolo. Yassop is not a bad guy and Usopp is not a bad guy. Do you see Usopp slapping the crews around and tries to kill them? Did you see Yassop trying to take over the world?
4. Random generic characters join (Tienshinhan/Yamcha/Chaiozu, Nami/Sanji/Chopper): hey, hey, Oda never created characters he does not like so how can you say that Sanji/Nami/Chopper are random characters? If Sanji is not around, the crews will starve, without Nami, the crews will be lost at sea, without Chopper the crews will get sick
5. Villian owns everyone but main hero (Nappa, Arlong): So your telling me that Nami/Sanji/Chopper/Franky/Zoro can't beat Califa/Jabura/Kumadori/Fukuro/Kaku? The Straw Hat pirates can beat the crap out of any villiam except for the major ones that gets pwned by Luffy. You lose
6. Hero #1 owns said bad guy: Did Luffy beat up Crocodile at the frist try? Did Luffy defeat Eneru on the Maxim? Did Luffy PWN Aokiji at Longring Longland island? Did Luffy sent Lucchi flying at the Galley-La HQ? Did Luffy fight Mr. 1/Doublefinger/Bon Clay/Miss Merry Christmas/Mr. 4/Chessmarimo/Mr. 5/Miss Valentine/Miss Goldenweek/Ohm/Shura/Gedatsu/Kaku/Jabura etc. etc. You've been a fan for an long time yet you don't know anything about this!?!?
5. 3rd main character introduced as bad guy (Vegeta, Robin): Robin manage to get over with her past and finally she knows what she wants to be. At least she did not complain about Luffy being stronger then her and always wanted to fight Luffy
6. Main character's boss has a whole crapload of badguys, including an elite squad (Ginyu Squad, Officer Agents): Generic
7. Hero, Hero #2, Hero #3 (still bad guy) and Hero #3's boss proceed to own everyone; Boss owns his men who failed him. : I don't see Arlong wanted to do that, I don't see Foxy wanted to do that, I don't see Spandam wanted to do that.
8. Hero #3 attempts to betray/defeat his boss, gets owned. (Vegeta/Frieza, Robin/Crocodile)True but remember that in DBZ, most villians turned good. In OP, most villians stay bad even after they got defeated
9. Main Hero owns Hero #3's boss with some new power move (Super Saiyan, Gomu Gomu no Storm)Did Luffy use Gomu Gomu no Strom many times? Did he destoryed a moon with it?
10. Hero #3 joins by default. (Vegeta, Robin): The point?
@joekido:
God, your wild. Yet you spoke the truth and the sad thing is FFA won't read that and respond. So sad.
1. Hero introduced ( Son Goku, Luffy): Dude, in every series a protagoinst is always going to be introduced. That comment is pointless and has nothing to do with Dragon Ball
2. Hero #2 introduced (Son Gohan, Zoro):Wow, I felt pride emitting from you, my gut tells me that your thinking like this: "I'm full of knowledge and I'm the smartest, no one can surpass me!" Zoro is not hero No. 2, that's just you overanalyzing everything
3. Son of former opponent/acquaintance turns good (Piccolo, Usopp): How dare you compare Usopp to Piccolo. Yassop is not a bad guy and Usopp is not a bad guy. Do you see Usopp slapping the crews around and tries to kill them? Did you see Yassop trying to take over the world?
4. Random generic characters join (Tienshinhan/Yamcha/Chaiozu, Nami/Sanji/Chopper): hey, hey, Oda never created characters he does not like so how can you say that Sanji/Nami/Chopper are random characters? If Sanji is not around, the crews will starve, without Nami, the crews will be lost at sea, without Chopper the crews will get sick
5. Villian owns everyone but main hero (Nappa, Arlong): So your telling me that Nami/Sanji/Chopper/Franky/Zoro can't beat Califa/Jabura/Kumadori/Fukuro/Kaku? The Straw Hat pirates can beat the crap out of any villiam except for the major ones that gets pwned by Luffy. You lose
6. Hero #1 owns said bad guy: Did Luffy beat up Crocodile at the frist try? Did Luffy defeat Eneru on the Maxim? Did Luffy PWN Aokiji at Longring Longland island? Did Luffy sent Lucchi flying at the Galley-La HQ? Did Luffy fight Mr. 1/Doublefinger/Bon Clay/Miss Merry Christmas/Mr. 4/Chessmarimo/Mr. 5/Miss Valentine/Miss Goldenweek/Ohm/Shura/Gedatsu/Kaku/Jabura etc. etc. You've been a fan for an long time yet you don't know anything about this!?!?
5. 3rd main character introduced as bad guy (Vegeta, Robin): Robin manage to get over with her past and finally she knows what she wants to be. At least she did not complain about Luffy being stronger then her and always wanted to fight Luffy
6. Main character's boss has a whole crapload of badguys, including an elite squad (Ginyu Squad, Officer Agents): Generic
7. Hero, Hero #2, Hero #3 (still bad guy) and Hero #3's boss proceed to own everyone; Boss owns his men who failed him. : I don't see Arlong wanted to do that, I don't see Foxy wanted to do that, I don't see Spandam wanted to do that.
8. Hero #3 attempts to betray/defeat his boss, gets owned. (Vegeta/Frieza, Robin/Crocodile)True but remember that in DBZ, most villians turned good. In OP, most villians stay bad even after they got defeated
9. Main Hero owns Hero #3's boss with some new power move (Super Saiyan, Gomu Gomu no Storm)Did Luffy use Gomu Gomu no Strom many times? Did he destoryed a moon with it?
10. Hero #3 joins by default. (Vegeta, Robin): The point?
nice… i concur. specially with 4&5. unlike in DB, the "support characters" weren't even shown every episode or every arc unlike in OP. And without those support characters in DB, the story will move on but in OP, without Nami, ussop, or Chopper, things won't be the same and THEY ARE NOT FREAKING RANDOM CHARACTERS.
One other thing I'd like to point out is luffy can't kick the shit out of everybody. There are some certain ones he can't fight/win against. e.g. Smoker, Mr. 1 (since he would just cut through luffy's rubber skin) and many more. So you see, just because luffy gets to fight the strongest ones doesn't mean he kicks everybody's ass. Who knows there might be this very weak enemy who shows up whom everyone can defeat except for luffy (his natural enemy maybe? like how enel is weak against him)
Dourikirs = that power level gauge thing.
@Impel:
Dourikirs = that power level gauge thing.
…
and? what's your point?
it is nothing like DBZ
luffy collect the crewmembers because he couldnt sail all by him self
Luffy is the captain
sanji is the shef
nami is the navigator
chopper is the doctor
ussope is the lier
robin is the historian
and zoro because he is strong and its crap to compare zoro and sanji they just dont go together and they have their own abilities also to mention that sanji has more weaknesses
Over all Goku find those people during his journey and most of them were his enemies and tried to kill him.
But Luffy went out to find nakama and set sail
nah, I doubt it will.
It will never be a training manga, nor do the one piece crew go to the rescue whenever a badguy shows up. So it wont inherit dragonball's negative traits.
It alrady has become an adventure manga, which dragonball was at once, so in a way, it is like dragonball, but only has its positive qualities, not negative traits.
Edit: joekido, why did you even reply to that mess? Anyone who thinks ANY of the mugiwara's are generic pointless characters, isnt worth arguing against. After i saw that, I didnt need to read the rest of his points you countered. Hes full of shit.
@hot:
it is nothing like DBZ
luffy collect the crewmembers because he couldnt sail all by him self
Luffy is the captain
sanji is the shef
nami is the navigator
chopper is the doctor
ussope is the lier
robin is the historian
and zoro because he is strong and its crap to compare zoro and sanji they just dont go together and they have their own abilities also to mention that sanji has more weaknesses
Wait, Luffy collects crewmates? Holy shit! It is DBZ!!! Don't you see, Goku collected Dragon Balls, and Luffy collects crewmates. I suppose it would be more contemporary to compare him to Ash Ketchum and pokemon, but DBZ makes perfect sense.
Thanks Kishido, I finally see your point.
I won't even respond to FFA's post because so many others did such an excellent job of rebutting it. But as far as I'm concerned, there's one thing that assures me that One Piece will NOT become like DBZ, and it was in the first chapter.
Shanks getting his arm bitten off by that lowly Sea King. Characters that are uber strong and established and supreme - even they can be killed by bullets to the head, even they can have their arms bitten off. Were this DBZ, after reaching a certain "power level" bullets would merely bounce off.
Sanji was owning Wanze until Wanze trapped his legs. Weaklings like Foxy can wear even Luffy to the limits of his stamina through dirty trickery. As long as someone like Shanks can lose his arm to a lowly East Blue Sea King, One Piece will not turn into DBZ.
I won't even respond to FFA's post because so many others did such an excellent job of rebutting it. But as far as I'm concerned, there's one thing that assures me that One Piece will NOT become like DBZ, and it was in the first chapter.
Shanks getting his arm bitten off by that lowly Sea King. Characters that are uber strong and established and supreme - even they can be killed by bullets to the head, even they can have their arms bitten off. Were this DBZ, after reaching a certain "power level" bullets would merely bounce off.
Sanji was owning Wanze until Wanze trapped his legs. Weaklings like Foxy can wear even Luffy to the limits of his stamina through dirty trickery. As long as someone like Shanks can lose his arm to a lowly East Blue Sea King, One Piece will not turn into DBZ.
Another example might be how Miss Golden Week was able to keep Luffy at bay where Mr's 3 & 5 and Miss Valentine all failed. She's easily the weakest raw fighter of the four (she got taken out by the DUCK) but her technique kept Luffy out of action more effectively than any of the other LG Baroque Works' members.
then he comes back with some super technique.
A frying pan is a super technique?
Anyway, Db set up the standard for fighting shounen series. So OBVIOUSLY pretty much every series is gonna resemble it alittle. It's just the shounen formula okay, can we move on now?
OP is already too different from db to ever BECOME the same series.
@$abZ:
I hate when people say that OP isn't going to be like DBZ, because DBZ ended up crap. I don't think DBZ ended up "crap"… just not as good as it started.
I think it was crap at the very end… I disliked the 28th Budokai. The rest of the Buu Saga was fine, though.
I just wanted to make one little point here…
@Fire Fist:
5. 3rd main character introduced as bad guy (Vegeta, Robin)
7. Hero, Hero #2, Hero #3 (still bad guy) and Hero #3's boss proceed to own everyone; Boss owns his men who failed him.
8. Hero #3 attempts to betray/defeat his boss, gets owned. (Vegeta/Frieza, Robin/Crocodile)
9. Main Hero owns Hero #3's boss with some new power move (Super Saiyan, Gomu Gomu no Storm)
10. Hero #3 joins by default. (Vegeta, Robin)
Since when was Robin "Hero #3"? What, did Nami, Usopp, Sanji and Chopper just fall off the edge of the world or something when I wasn't looking? Or are they just so "random" and "generic" that you can just pretend that they don't exist to jam Robin in there as the third main character to be introduced? Bollocks to that, seriously.
Beyond that, this list = failure on every level. Maybe I'll bother to elaborate further later, but at this point I don't feel like wasting the effort. Besides, so many others have already done that well enough that no one else even needs to.
OP is already too different from db to ever BECOME the same series.
QFT.
~ jj ~
I won't even respond to FFA's post because so many others did such an excellent job of rebutting it. But as far as I'm concerned, there's one thing that assures me that One Piece will NOT become like DBZ, and it was in the first chapter.
Shanks getting his arm bitten off by that lowly Sea King. Characters that are uber strong and established and supreme - even they can be killed by bullets to the head, even they can have their arms bitten off. Were this DBZ, after reaching a certain "power level" bullets would merely bounce off.
I got four words for you:
Son Gohan (First One). He was one of the world's best martial artists and he died because Son Goku stepped on him while as an Oozaru.
Not to mention the very first villian they fought, Son Goku gave his life so he could be defeated.
And you really think it's that simple? The Shanks thing happened because of plot. But Usopp taking a 4 ton bat to the head and Pell surviving the equivalent of a hydrogen-bomb negates any claim you have to statements like that.
I don't even have to respond to Niddhoggr. It's fairly obvious that if you can't be adults about this, then your words hold no water to me whatsoever. I have no time for children.
Hell, the series are drawn the EXACT SAME. Look at AD-HD's signature. If the Cross Epic was any indication, the character designs are IDENTICAL.
No, one Piece is not the exact same as Dragonball, and that's a good thing. But Dragonball inspired many modern Manga, and the proof is in a lot of things.
To just deny it is being ignorant.
Oh, and jinjue, if you don't think Robin is a main character, then why did they spent 100 damn chapters (Longer than anyone, even Vivi) going out of their way to beat the hell out of CP9, declare war on the WORLD, and risk their lives as well as lives of the Franky Family and Galley-la to bring her back?
@Fire Fist:
Oh, and jinjue, if you don't think Robin is a main character, then why did they spent 100 damn chapters (Longer than anyone, even Vivi) going out of their way to beat the hell out of CP9, declare war on the WORLD, and risk their lives as well as lives of the Franky Family and Galley-la to bring her back?
But still if we are referring to teh similarities to DBZ then who si the thrid hero is all about fighting power and brute force which would make the third crew member Sanji. There is no character like Robin in DB.
But still if we are referring to teh similarities to DBZ then who si the thrid hero is all about fighting power and brute force which would make the third crew member Sanji. There is no character like Robin in DB.
This is true. Bulma and Robin share some similarities, but Bulma's importance to the story declined as it went on. Robin can fight, Bulma can't, but they did both aid the crew with their knowledge and ability.
You can find similarities in many series between characters. My only problem is how immaturely some people handled my post. I didn't mean anything malicious by it. Those points were supposed to be looked at together, not broken down.
In any case, I only meant them as basic similarities. Not exact comparisons. DB/Z and One Piece are very different in a lot of things, but they do share some of the same elements that make up a fighting manga.
@Fire Fist:
You can find similarities in many series between characters. My only problem is how immaturely some people handled my post. I didn't mean anything malicious by it. Those points were supposed to be looked at together, not broken down.
The problem with your points was that most of them when broken down was nothing at all, and that you didn't explain any single one of them in detail. It was just a list of mostly vague similarities. Just should have given your points deeper thought before posting them and dropped some that were just nonsense. Breaking down peoples' arguments is a good way to check if they have any real points at all. Many bogus arguments look like real until broken down, and this trick has been used a lot in malicious ways.
Not saying that your points aren't valid, just that the way you presented them showed nothing.
On the other hand people were really rude in replying to you. Your post was on One Piece while several of the replies were attacks on your person.
OMG…
You can't say One Piece and Dragon Ball are COMPLETELY the same! Thats like saying gold are equal to platinum. They have some similarities/archetype but overall they are not. And the character designs... I don't think they are THAT close but that doesn't mean that the story is the same as DB. Think about Dragon Quest 8 (a ps2 game, fyi), the main character is exactly the same as goku but the plot was not exactly the same. And yeah, if One Piece goes DB its not a good thing... really. That just mean that One Piece lacks originality and One Piece is so original.
The problem with your points was that most of them when broken down was nothing at all, and that you didn't explain any single one of them in detail. It was just a list of mostly vague similarities. Just should have given your points deeper thought before posting them and dropped some that were just nonsense. Breaking down peoples' arguments is a good way to check if they have any real points at all. Many bogus arguments look like real until broken down, and this trick has been used a lot in malicious ways.
Not saying that your points aren't valid, just that the way you presented them showed nothing.
On the other hand people were really rude in replying to you. Your post was on One Piece while several of the replies were attacks on your person.
Point taken. I can easily break it down more clearly.
1. Hero Introduced: Following the events in DB, we're re-introduced to Son Goku, now older and married to Chi-Chi.
2. 2nd Hero Introduced: Everyone is introduced to Son Gohan; furthermore, Son Gohan is kidnapped by Raditz and trapped in his spaceship; Zoro is tied up to a cross by a corrupt marine.
Need further breaking down? Because of Garp, Luffy has marine blood in him, similar to Saiyajin blood that both Raditz and Son Goku carry. Now, Morgan may not be Luffy's brother, but like many of his opponents, Luffy is an aggressive fighter.
3. Son of a former acquaintance/rival turns good: Okay, perhaps this was a little vague without an explanation. Up till Luffy met him, Usopp was nothing more than the village liar; a kid who founded a small gang and basically harassed people with his antics. Even though the village was not aware of it, Usopp redeemed himself by confronting Kuro, the same way Piccolo confronted Raditz and actually defeated the first villain. (With Goku's help). No one witnessed/acknowledged Raditz's defeat except the Z Warriors and their friends, just as no one saw/acknowledged Kuro's defeat except the Strawhats and their friends.
4. Random Generic Characters Join: Okay, Oda places more importance on his characters than Toriyama. But honestly, other than their respective roles on the crew (Which they all do well), when have we seen any of them doing anything regarding their dream? Except in filler, Nami has not drawn any maps since they entered the Grand Line (though she has navigated out of some tricky spots); Sanji hasn't cooked anything extraordinary; even that Elephant Tuna was just eaten by Luffy in a 2 page incident where they destroyed the log pose, and Chopper hasn't done anything beyond his normal ability to heal the Strawhats. Zoro has defeated progressively stronger swordsmen, Luffy has defeated progressively stronger captains, and Robin has been observing poneglyphs.
5. 3rd Main character introduced as Bad Guy: Though Vegeta didn't have nearly the position with Freezer that Robin did with Crocodile, they were still subordinates of the second major opponent.
6. 3rd Main Character's boss has an elite squad: Okay, so this one is common. I'll concede, even Hokuto no Ken had the Aces. This one's pretty standard.
7. Hero 1, 2, 3 and Hero 3's boss own everyone: Okay, everyone's looking at this one wrong. Prior to that point, the major villian annihilated the Z fighters/Strawhats. Nappa took them all the Z fighters down singlehandedly (Except Yamcha, who died at the hands of the Saibamen). Arlong completely destroyed everyone but Luffy, even Zoro. But following that, down to the last 5 Officer agents (Mr. 4, Merry Christmas, Kurei, Mr. 1, Doublefinger), everyone of the other officer agents were defeated easily by Zoro, Luffy, and Crocodile. In DBZ, Vegeta, Goku and Gohan did the same to the Ginyu Force, Dodoria, and Zarbon.
8. Hero #3 attempts to betray boss, gets owned: I shouldn't have to elaborate on this point. Robin tried to betray Crocodile, Vegeta tried to betray Frieza. Both got seriously destroyed.
9. Hero #1 destroys Hero #3's boss with a power move: Okay, you cannot deny storm was pulled out of NOWHERE. Even pinwheel had an explanation: Luffy saw Gen-san's hat, got an idea. They didn't even mention Super Saiya-jin until Vegeta started rambling about it suddenly. And on top of that, once both moves came into play, they became useless. Storm didn't even affect Kuzan in the least, just as Super Saiyan didn't do much against Android 17 or 18.
10. Hero #3 joins by default: Neither Robin or Vegeta had anywhere to go. Do I need to remind you that Vegeta's home planet was destroyed, Exactly the same as Ohara was destroyed: A use of extreme force. The only difference is in who did it. In Vegeta's case, it was Frieza. In Robin's case, it was the Marines.
There, that's all you needed to ask for, instead of insulting me.
all the points debated here are just similarities that every shonen manga share. saw that fanart narutonepiece? should we say one piece and naruto are similar? if you do so, both fancommunities will come at you with the intend of killing you.
so, everybody here is right in the end. they share similarities, of course. and we know oda is much influenced by toriyama's work. that's all there is to it.
will op become like dbz? no, one piece's plot is much deeper than dragon ball, as one piece is on the wave created by dragon ball. and there'll never be fights for the hell of it.
EDIT: doesn't this topic pop out every 3 months, with always the same answers?
@Fire Fist:
4. Random Generic Characters Join: Okay, Oda places more importance on his characters than Toriyama. But honestly, other than their respective roles on the crew (Which they all do well), when have we seen any of them doing anything regarding their dream? Except in filler, Nami has not drawn any maps since they entered the Grand Line (though she has navigated out of some tricky spots); Sanji hasn't cooked anything extraordinary; even that Elephant Tuna was just eaten by Luffy in a 2 page incident where they destroyed the log pose, and Chopper hasn't done anything beyond his normal ability to heal the Strawhats. Zoro has defeated progressively stronger swordsmen, Luffy has defeated progressively stronger captains, and Robin has been observing poneglyphs.
You're right about Sanji/Nami/Chopper … However recently :
Oda just need time and won't develop everyone so fast.
Niddhoggr, if you don't like someone's post, just ignore especially when you can't give him/her constructive response. What you wrote earlier was completely violating our forum rule, and you receive one strike for it.
OP is not going to be DBZ…
To cut thing shot...
OP story is far more complex
(friendship, political, revolutionist, 4 king, marine, heaven >> damm lots of different group, too many character to relate to)
The group is no doubt getting strong after each arc, but how strong is it? Oda never said... not like DBZ the CHI can be measure...
Luffy >> new skill, Gear 2 & 3. We still do not know if his Gear 1 strength have improve or not.
Zoro >> new cutting technic, not strength
Sanji >> burning kick. I do not know how to categories this, but it is skill
Nami >> New weather stick and more intelligent fighting skill
Usopp >> Better weapon, not strength
Coppie >> Monster > yes Goku transformation form :p
The enemy stronger each arc...? Nope... Oda mention before in SBS if Enel and Lucci were to fight... they might be EVEN or have the same bounty
! For the guys who mention DBZ ending up crap…
I think you are anime fanz not manga... no appreciation to manga!!!
! Because of DBZ, u r interested to OP. Else u still reading the american comic. DBZ is revolutionist to Japanese manga...
! (oceanizer don strike me for this, i really have to said something and i put it in spoiler tag, forgive me....)
In DBZ a super sayain was a form that one person attained and that was in the monkey form, and even that person died. And now we have numerous sayains that go SS1,2,3, and even 4?
I dont think OP will be like that, the characters progress to reach higher levels, theres people at those higher levels, and people like WB, Shanks, Mihawk, have a level and wont gain a new level beyond anything seen. What I mean by that is they are a level that will stay steady, with them not gaining or losing any power. And that level is the level the people train and strive to achieve, and with the SHs there not becoming stronger than anyone ever knew, there just rising to a level closer to the Big Guys.
So OP being like DBZ I would have to say no.
Oh, and jinjue, if you don't think Robin is a main character, then why did they spent 100 damn chapters (Longer than anyone, even Vivi) going out of their way to beat the hell out of CP9, declare war on the WORLD, and risk their lives as well as lives of the Franky Family and Galley-la to bring her back?
Read my post again, smart guy. I never said that Robin wasn't a main character, I said that she wasn't the third main character. You, however, clearly make a point of how Nami, Usopp, Sanji and Chopper are not main characters. Whether this is because you dislike Nami, Usopp, Sanji and Chopper or just because you wanted to force fit Robin in as "Hero #3" is beyond me, but either way it's completely and absolutely ridiculous. As an argument, I personally think that it has zero merit.
~ jj ~
Read my post again, smart guy. I never said that Robin wasn't a main character, I said that she wasn't the third main character. You, however, clearly make a point of how Nami, Usopp, Sanji and Chopper are not main characters. Whether this is because you dislike Nami, Usopp, Sanji and Chopper or just because you wanted to force fit Robin in as "Hero #3" is beyond me, but either way it's completely and absolutely ridiculous. As an argument, I personally think that it has zero merit.
~ jj ~
Fair enough, but explain to me how much effort has been put into these other characters so far, other than needed effort to progress the story. For one, Nami has never drawn any maps since they entered the Grand Line, Sanji has never cooked anything extraordinary since he was introduced, Usopp has never sniped anything significant other than Spandam and a couple marines at Enies Lobby, and Chopper has not cured any "uncurable" disease or done anything beyond the scope of a normal doctor.
Granted, they've done things to build their character, but nothing directly related to their dreams. Nami has shown her navigation and meteorology, okay. How does that relate to drawing the world's greatest map? Sanji has gained intelligence and helped the Strawhats get through certain situations, how does that relate to his dream to find All Blue and gain access to every type of seafood in the world? Okay, Usopp has shown SOME moments of bravery, relating to his dream. But how does crapping himself and whining and trying to mate with a ship help him become a "Brave Sea Pirate"? And finally, Chopper's done some doctoring. He's fought some fights, he helped Franky get some Cola. How does this relate to his dream to "Find the ultimate Panacea to cure every illness"?
Like it or not, Luffy, Robin, Zoro, Usopp (somewhat) and Franky are the only Strawhats that are directly working toward their dreams. Luffy is fighting progressively stronger Captains. Zoro is fighting progressively stronger swordsmen, and training constantly. Usopp is showing moments of bravery (even though they're fleeting at best), Robin is examining Poneglyphs and learning history as she goes along, and Franky is maintaining and adding to the Thousand Sunny (Even though it's a mere 10 Chapters since it was built). I have nothing against Sanji, Nami, or Chopper, but show me exactly how they're progressing toward their dreams, because I sure as hell don't see it.
@Fire Fist:
Fair enough, but explain to me how much effort has been put into these other characters so far, other than needed effort to progress the story. For one, Nami has never drawn any maps since they entered the Grand Line, Sanji has never cooked anything extraordinary since he was introduced,
….
show me exactly how they're progressing toward their dreams, because I sure as hell don't see it.
Let´s apply to Oda that the last two pages of every chapter should show Nami when she draws maps at night after all the action is over … personally I´d love a chapter showing Sanji peeling potatoes...
You seem to believe that everything that is not shown explicitly is not happening (in the intention of the narrator - Oda). So will the complete Strawhat Crew die on constipation? I never saw them dump a good sh**
THANK GOD
Let´s apply to Oda that the last two pages of every chapter should show Nami when she draws maps at night after all the action is over … personally I´d love a chapter showing Sanji peeling potatoes...
You seem to believe that everything that is not shown explicitly is not happening (in the intention of the narrator - Oda). So will the complete Strawhat Crew die on constipation? I never saw them dump a good sh**
THANK GOD
Thanks for the laugh, I needed that.
But that's not what I mean. It doesn't have to happen every single chapter, but once in a while to let us know that they're working on their dream is important. Seriously, there has only been one event for Chopper and Sanji that have shown them working toward their dream: the Elephant Tuna with Sanji, and the doctor in Alabasta with Chopper. But we've never seen Nami work on her maps; even just one panel of her drawing a map would be sufficient.
But no, I never want to see the Strawhats taking a dump. Except Brooke, and only to explain how the hell he does it.
@Fire Fist:
I got four words for you:
Son Gohan (First One). He was one of the world's best martial artists and he died because Son Goku stepped on him while as an Oozaru.
Not to mention the very first villian they fought, Son Goku gave his life so he could be defeated.
And you really think it's that simple? The Shanks thing happened because of plot. But Usopp taking a 4 ton bat to the head and Pell surviving the equivalent of a hydrogen-bomb negates any claim you have to statements like that.
I don't even have to respond to Niddhoggr. It's fairly obvious that if you can't be adults about this, then your words hold no water to me whatsoever. I have no time for children.
Hell, the series are drawn the EXACT SAME. Look at AD-HD's signature. If the Cross Epic was any indication, the character designs are IDENTICAL.
No, one Piece is not the exact same as Dragonball, and that's a good thing. But Dragonball inspired many modern Manga, and the proof is in a lot of things.
To just deny it is being ignorant.
Oh, and jinjue, if you don't think Robin is a main character, then why did they spent 100 damn chapters (Longer than anyone, even Vivi) going out of their way to beat the hell out of CP9, declare war on the WORLD, and risk their lives as well as lives of the Franky Family and Galley-la to bring her back?
Umm.
Son Gohan couldnt blow up planets, shanks can make people pass out by walking past them. They both were vulnerable, but Shanks is one of the most powerful characters in the series. Son Gohan wasnt close.
Also Ussop took a bat to the head, but he got fucked up from it. Its not like hes invulnerable, he can be seriously hurt by things. Oda just thought that was practical.
and the series are not drawn the same way. One piece characters dont have potruding muscles and nipples the size of milk duds. Maybe they were similar in cross epoch because….idk, it was the same manga? Compare the series seperately to see a difference.
So really stop posting FFA, everything you say is utter crap. I dont even know why this topic exists.
It goes to show, whether its one piece, naruto, or dragonball, every series has stupid fans. V_V
End this thing tho, its not even worth discussing.
Fair enough, but explain to me how much effort has been put into these other characters so far, other than needed effort to progress the story.
Shouldn't that be sufficient? They're featured, long standing characters that help to progress the story. Additionally, Nami, Sanji and Chopper are vitally necessary to maintain the health and well-being of the crew…unless you think that Luffy, Zoro, Robin and Franky can function without a navigator, cook or doctor. Hell, Luffy even makes a huge point of this during the Arlong arc; don't you remember? Then there's Usopp (among others, such as Sanji again), who allowed for dramatic turns that drastically affected the way things turned out in recent arcs. Given that, I fail to see how these are just 'random background' characters when compared to Luffy, Zoro and Robin. Especially Zoro, because if there are any characters that are suffering in the CD department, it's Zoro. Unlike the others, all Zoro has going for him right now is his single mindedness when it comes to sword-ing, as he doesn't really do much else anymore.
For that matter, what effort has been put into Zoro at all recently? He trains, he fights, he gets stronger and he wins. The end. Zoro's nigh complete lack of character development or personality now is the biggest reason why he no longer ranks as one of my favourite characters. He just doesn't do anything anymore, so it's hard to see just what's so important about him other than his swordery skillz.
For one, Nami has never drawn any maps since they entered the Grand Line, Sanji has never cooked anything extraordinary since he was introduced, Usopp has never sniped anything significant other than Spandam and a couple marines at Enies Lobby, and Chopper has not cured any "uncurable" disease or done anything beyond the scope of a normal doctor.
The idea that Nami hasn't drawn a single map since entering the Grand Line is ridiculously laughable bordering on downright stupid. I'm with bedrock on this one; just because we don't get a panel spread of Nami painstakingly going over her maps doesn't mean that she's not drawing any. You also forgot to mention how Usopp, in the guise of Sogeking of course, sniped the flag of the World Government. If that's not "significant", I don't know what is. Sanji's basic duties on the ship are extraordinary enough to begin with; his position on the ship is quite possibly the most labour intensive out of the entire crew as he has to cook for everyone in addition to working as a quartermaster over the kitchen provisions. Also, the sheer act of keeping Luffy fed on a daily basis is extraordinary, in my opinion. And so what if Chopper hasn't cured any "incurable" diseases yet? He's always reading and studying to work towards his dream, and if his dream was as easy as curing a disease every few chapters it wouldn't be as impressive as it is. Being able to accomplish a dream like that so easily takes away from how far reaching it is, and I like the fact that we're not getting any kind of 'instant gratification' with it, given the vastness of its scope.
Nami has shown her navigation and meteorology, okay. How does that relate to drawing the world's greatest map?
Are you kidding? Plotting and charting navigational courses through the most dangerous and under-explored stretch of sea directly relates to her dream of drawing a map of the world. I also still cannot believe that you honestly think that Nami hasn't been working on her dream just because we haven't seen her do so on panel. Every day they sail, every new course plotted and every new island they visit is more than likely being recorded and mapped by her for her world map, and I would be surprised and outright stupefied if it wasn't. We're not idiots; Oda really shouldn't have to spell this out for us.
Sanji has gained intelligence and helped the Strawhats get through certain situations, how does that relate to his dream to find All Blue and gain access to every type of seafood in the world?
The thing about Sanji's dream is that out of all of the Straw Hats, it's the least tangible. There is a very real – though still unlikely as Oda can't be that cruel – possibility that All Blue may not even exist, and that definitely seems to be the general consensus from the average person within the series as well. Remember, All Blue is a myth so it's not likely to be something that most people would take seriously, and I think that also directly ties into how quiet he is about it. Unlike what we've seen with the others, Sanji has been cruelly mocked and openly ridiculed because of his dream. The general reaction that he's gotten, as far as we know, wasn't the same as simply being told "oh, you can't do that" or "give up, you'll never find it". He was laughed at, taunted, put down. The only people, again that we know of, who ever took his dream seriously were Zeff, who had the same dream, and Luffy, who wouldn't be the type to laugh at anyone's dream. Given what we know about how he's been treated in the past because of his dream, it is no surprise to me whatsoever that Sanji doesn't loudly proclaim it every chapter…doing so would just leave him potentially open to more ridicule from all of the people who don't believe that All Blue even exists.
I will give you that he's not really progressing in his dream in the same way that the others are, but I think that a lot of that simply has to do with the nature of his dream itself. Again, All Blue is a myth, a fairy tale. But assuming that it does exist, the further they sail on the Grand Line, the closer they are to finding it. There's also a distinct possibility that Sanji's dream will get brought up again in the upcoming arc as they are heading toward an island of merfolk. At this point it's purely speculation, but if anyone would know about All Blue I'd be inclined to think that merfolk would.
Okay, Usopp has shown SOME moments of bravery, relating to his dream. But how does crapping himself and whining and trying to mate with a ship help him become a "Brave Sea Pirate"?
Way to completely underplay everything that Usopp has ever accomplished since joining Luffy's crew. Personally, I think that Usopp is one of the bravest people out of all of the Straw Hats, and his continued existence only helps to prove it. He isn't the same as Luffy, Zoro or Sanji* in that he knows that he's not a monstrous fighter, but he pushes himself past his fears and lack of self-confidence to fight anyway. He isn't rushing in where fools and angels fear to tread because of overwhelming self-confidence or fearlessness, but he goes along and does his best because it's necessary and because he knows that he has to in order to help his nakama. I mean, come on! He challenged Enel straight up knowing that he was doomed to failure for that very reason! And his donning of the Sogeking persona to help his nakama even after he mutinied and left the crew is just another shining example of how far Usopp is willing to push himself past his fear and trepidation to directly confront his adversaries when necessary.
There's also the simple fact that he's managed to score himself a sizeable bounty, albeit as Sogeking, which proves that the Marines at least consider him to be a legitimate threat. He's also continuing to sail ever deeper into the Grand Line, which is not something that just anyone can up and do. The further along that he goes, the more that he accomplishes and the new heights that he pushes himself to all just go to show that this isn't the same little kid that we saw in Syrup Village, and the fact that he is openly afraid of what lies ahead just makes his bravery all the more apparent in the end.
And finally, Chopper's done some doctoring. He's fought some fights, he helped Franky get some Cola. How does this relate to his dream to "Find the ultimate Panacea to cure every illness"?
What about all of the research that he does, the new books that he picks up to study, the field work that he does whenever he sees a new plant or object that may prove medicinal? Chopper's fights, while cool and often vicious, are not what I judge his dream on as they have nothing to do with his dream. But his conviction and the amount of time he puts into his studies are a clear indication that he's working toward his dreams, just like everyone else. Lastly, Chopper's dream may get a heads up pretty soon given what's going on in the current manga chapters right now.
Like it or not, Luffy, Robin, Zoro, Usopp (somewhat) and Franky are the only Strawhats that are directly working toward their dreams.
Didn't you just say in the paragraph above this that Usopp wasn't working towards his dream? Oi. :getlost:
I have nothing against Sanji, Nami, or Chopper, but show me exactly how they're progressing toward their dreams, because I sure as hell don't see it.
Yeah, and I have no idea why you "sure as hell don't see it" because it's plain as day to me. Especially with Nami, for the most sun scorchingly obvious reasons imaginable.
~ jj ~
AHEM.
Correction FFACE. Sanji's dream is to find all blue and not to be the best cook. SO in some way, he is getting closer to his goal/dream.
Umm.
Son Gohan couldnt blow up planets, shanks can make people pass out by walking past them. They both were vulnerable, but Shanks is one of the most powerful characters in the series. Son Gohan wasnt close.
Also Ussop took a bat to the head, but he got fucked up from it. Its not like hes invulnerable, he can be seriously hurt by things. Oda just thought that was practical.
and the series are not drawn the same way. One piece characters dont have potruding muscles and nipples the size of milk duds. Maybe they were similar in cross epoch because….idk, it was the same manga? Compare the series seperately to see a difference.
So really stop posting FFA, everything you say is utter crap. I dont even know why this topic exists.
It goes to show, whether its one piece, naruto, or dragonball, every series has stupid fans. V_V
End this thing tho, its not even worth discussing.
Is this really necessary? I don't live to insult you, please don't live to insult me. I actually respect the opinion of all people who post here. I don't care if you don't agree with me, in fact I encourage debate, but please, don't insult me.
Usopp surviving a 4 ton bat to the head is concrete proof that strength is greatly exaggerated in One Piece. Not to mention Pell surviving the equivalent of a nuclear blast. Yeah, Usopp got fucked up. Okay. His head should be three islands over.
Go read the Little Garden Arc again, particularly when Luffy gets his shirt burned off. You'll find your sarcastic comment about their muscles happens to be wrong.
And Grimm, I am very well aware Sanji's dream is to find All Blue. But what do you think he's gonna do with All Blue? Make an aquarium? No, he's going to use what lives in All Blue to make exotic seafood.
Pell obviously didn't survive the equilivant of a nuclear blast; if that much energy had been released in an air burst over the city everyone would have died from ionizing radiation. Croc clearly exaggerated the strength of his bomb.
Usopp surviving a 4 ton bat to the head is concrete proof that strength is greatly exaggerated in One Piece. Not to mention Pell surviving the equivalent of a nuclear blast. Yeah, Usopp got fucked up. Okay. His head should be three islands over.
No, its concrete proof that its a shounen manga. I mean what shounen fight manga doesnt have the characters live through unrealistic situations? I mean even D.Grayman, which has to be the least shounen like shounen manga out right now, has allen surviving getting launched through several brick walls. This doesnt make it like DBZ, it makes it like every other shounen manga.
Go read the Little Garden Arc again, particularly when Luffy gets his shirt burned off. You'll find your sarcastic comment about their muscles happens to be wrong.
Now go watch super saiyan goku during the frieza saga. No comparison.
And Grimm, I am very well aware Sanji's dream is to find All Blue. But what do you think he's gonna do with All Blue? Make an aquarium? No, he's going to use what lives in All Blue to make exotic seafood.
He doesnt have to practice cooking constantly, wasting manga panels to do so.
So again, just leave this topic alone. Its impossible to win an argument on the interweb, especially with half-baked ideas such as your own.
Or the bomb could have been destructive in a less direct manner.
For example, you'd probably kill more people detonating any bomb in the middle of a city of skyscrapers versus a suburb, because of population density, and more damage of the form of buildings collapsing and falling over like dominoes.
Or the bomb could have been destructive in a less direct manner.
For example, you'd probably kill more people detonating any bomb in the middle of a city of skyscrapers versus a suburb, because of population density, and more damage of the form of buildings collapsing and falling over like dominoes.
That's all true, but not applicable here because Croc mentioned that the radius of the blast would be in the kilometer range, as I recall. Also, population density wasn't a factor since the opposing armies were confined in a very small area.
It also doesnt explain at all why pell is alive.
I dont even know what your attempted to prove by posting.
I mean you could hold a grenade, and if it goes off in your hand, chances are your either dead, or not a happy camper. I think we all agree that this bomb was more powerful than a grenade. right?
It also doesnt explain at all why pell is alive.
I dont even know what your attempted to prove by posting.
I mean you could hold a grenade, and if it goes off in your hand, chances are your either dead, or not a happy camper. I think we all agree that this bomb was more powerful than a grenade. right?
My point was that while Pell did survive an explosion that a normal person couldn't, it wasn't a nuclear level energy release so the exaggeration isn't as great as it appears if you take Croc's boasting at face value.