Marvel Movies Thread - Holy Shitballs
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I hope Deadpool and Wolverine make out in this movie.
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LOL.
That Wolverine vs. Sabertooth fight looks like it's gonna be sweet.
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Why would you blow THAT cameo in the trailer like 4 days away from release?
I mean sure that was going to hit headlines and be unavoidable anyway but they went this long without spoiling!
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I forgot it was already July, the movie's coming out in five days?! O.o
Damn, I might actually go see this in theaters.
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@Robby said in Marvel Movies Thread - Holy Shitballs:
Why would you blow THAT cameo in the trailer like 4 days away from release?
I mean sure that was going to hit headlines and be unavoidable anyway but they went this long without spoiling!
What, Sabertooth? He was already in past trailers.
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@Satsuki said in Marvel Movies Thread - Holy Shitballs:
What, Sabertooth? He was already in past trailers.
Nope, we've known about Sabertooth for months.
The new spoiler. If you didn't catch it the first time, don't rewatch the trailer till you've seen the movie.
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D&W has an 82% on rottentomatoes:
https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/deadpool_and_wolverineGeneral grade seems to be a "B".
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Movie was a whole lot of fun
And Marvel’s comic con panel coming out soon
I wonder what there going to replace Kang dynasty with?
And what new comic book movies are coming out, hopefully X-Men
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My biggest complaint was that the film didn't end with Wolverine and Deadpool becoming a couple and making out.
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@Shiebs said in Marvel Movies Thread - Holy Shitballs:
And what new comic book movies are coming out, hopefully X-Men
Know it’s semantics but that’s not new
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And the lamb lies down on Broadway
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I'm still processing it all in my head but for now I will say: I had a lot of fun, and I will never look at N*SYNC the same way again.
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Should’ve gotten someone different….and probably younger unless they’re changing the dynamic of Reed & Victor’s relationship.
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@Time-Control-Magician said in Marvel Movies Thread - Holy Shitballs:
Should’ve gotten someone different….and probably younger unless they’re changing the dynamic of Reed & Victor’s relationship.
I'm about 99.99% sure that RDJ is just playing a variant Tony. It makes the most dramatic sense, and helps tie things back to the origins of the MCU. Iron Man turns twenty in 2028, so I think that delaying these two films by a year makes more sense, but I'm also kind of curious to see if Marvel has a curve ball for 2028 in general.
Either way, I'm really hoping that Pepper, Rhody and Peter get shoved into a tiny room with this Doom character and just let the four actors cook. It's what actors want, it's what audiences want, and it's what's going to sell best.
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@JulieYBM said in Marvel Movies Thread - Holy Shitballs:
I'm about 99.99% sure that RDJ is just playing a variant Tony.
Would be a a hell of call back to What If Demon In An Armor if true.
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The irony that I was just saying this lol.
I get that he is playing a variant Doom and main universe Doom is still open for later, but man this is lazy and taking advantage of an audience that are easily impressed by the same old faces.
They can't even build up to this via next year's films. It's mostly just F4 at best because it begins filming Tuesday.
The ton of Kangs/Nate Richards weren't even dealt with, just like 3 of them. This is a mess.
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Yeah, this definitely smells of "last minute decision." Making RDJ your next Thanos makes sense if the plan is to maybe to a sort of reboot of sorts, but this really should have more build up at this point so that it feels like an arc we've all been dreading and anticipating as the audience.
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Even Thanos was a last minute decision. For all that the Infinity Saga comes together they were mostly making it up as they went along and running with what audiences responded to. Like Loki was 100% not supposed to come back originally but fans ate up Hiddleston so they kept undoing his death scenes.
Here they HAD big plans for Kang but the guy playing Kang kind of had... issues. And Black Panther who was going to lead this era... died. So of course they had to pivot a bit.
Doom takes out Kang early in the comic version of Secret Wars anyway, I'm not bothered by it.
Of course, you don't cast Downey in the part and not show his face, so their Doom is going to be a bit different, and they almost have to make him a Stark variant and adress that. And this kind of cuts down on the ability to make Doom a regular antagonist over many movies. But it could make for interesting times especially if they give him and Spiderman a lot of time together.
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@Cockycent said in Marvel Movies Thread - Holy Shitballs:
The ton of Kangs/Nate Richards weren't even dealt with, just like 3 of them. This is a mess.
Truer to the text it seems
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@Robby This is a 2026 film and they only have 3 films max to build up to it at this point for a Saga General.
Thanos was anything, but last minute. He was the one that gave Loki the army and sent him in Phase 1.
Whedon is talking about his mindset over involving Thanos in Avengers 1 the same week the film comes out. Whedon was tasked with writing Avengers and multiple elements of the Saga in 2005.
https://www.slashfilm.com/520761/exclusive-joss-whedon-kevin-feige-explain-origin-the-avengers-post-script/Whedon was given so much autonomy and if they continued that way, he'd probably still be mapping 2 sagas ahead. They gave him too much power to be honest.
Icons Unearthed goes through all of that from Charlie Wen being why they start at concept art to the writers like McFeely and Markus being architects of Phase 1 alongside Jon and Whedon.
Gunn was tasked with giving the Infinity Stones an origin, but they knew from the start it would be Avengers, Stones, and Thanos due to Whedon.
Everything else is winging it, for sure, but this is not a Thanos thing.
As far as Panther, it wasn't him. It was Peter. Even tho it is a bad idea to rely on a Sony owned character, they gave him the keys along with Strange, Sam, Wanda and Carol. If anything, Panther is like the 4th or 5th lead at best.
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@Cockycent said in Marvel Movies Thread - Holy Shitballs:
I get that he is playing a variant Doom and main universe Doom is still open for later, but man this is lazy and taking advantage of an audience that are easily impressed by the same old faces.
They can't even build up to this via next year's films. It's mostly just F4 at best because it begins filming Tuesday.
Along with what’s been said, you recall F4 is also taking place in another universe, right? The 616 might not have an F4 given how things played out, so the 616 not having its own Doom made sense to me imo. Hence Doom being played by a repeat actor seemed fine.
Additional thoughts, but with Deadpool and Wolverine spoilers
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@Gizmo My mindset is that both F4 and Doom if there some in the main universe are left open for the future, so this move doesn't affect that.
It is lazy because of the obvious desperation. It is like a comic writer bringing back a beloved character for nostalgia at the last minute because they ran out of ideas.
Nostalgia is the theme of this Multiverse Saga.
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@Cockycent said in Marvel Movies Thread - Holy Shitballs:
@Gizmo My mindset is that both F4 and Doom if there some in the main universe are left open for the future, so this move doesn't affect that.
Hear you on the other stuff, but it doesn’t make sense imo to cast F4 and make them another universe if you have plans to cast them in the main 616 later on down the line, especially if you’re thinking the 616 F4 will be played by different people. Might as well at that point have just made them be in the current universe in the first place.
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@Gizmo Yes, this isn't like some of these recent throwaway castings, so I too question the direction.
From what i've read, when it was Kang Dynasty, F4 were meant to be leads taking him on along with others. This hasn't changed for F4 even with Kang KD being replaced with Doomsday.
I expect F4 to continue beyond this saga. I don't like the idea, but maybe the rumor is accurate that they will collide Earths for a reboot.
I truly dislike that idea, but I can't do anything to stop it if that is their choice.
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@Gizmo said in Marvel Movies Thread - Holy Shitballs:
Comic Con Hall H Doctor Doom casting reveal…
i am kinda...surprised he has any new involvement but considering where i just saw a movie where
then who knows. -
He got his Oscar, it’s been a while since he did a Marvel film, the world still loves him in the MCU, they’re likely paying him a ton of money to play the part, and potentially it’s not just Stark again or just Stark from another dimension, it’s another iconic character all his own, so his original role won’t get tarnished with this. Get why he’d be willing to come back.
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RDJ playing Doom is definitely a shocking reveal. I thought it was fake when I heard the news. It does come off as somewhat desperate, but to try to go big for ending their multiverse saga, I can see the sense in it. The two biggest heroes at this point are Dr. Strange & Spiderman who are both heroes Tony is connected to. Having a Tony variant that's Victor/Dr. Doom makes that connection to them.
For audiences, it'll be easier for them to connect the idea of Dr. Doom in this universe basically being an Iron Man in a new suit he's designed as well as the idea he learned magic like Dr. Strange did. There's probably a lot of people who will also just be interested in the idea of seeing RDJ playing a villain role.
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@Zack said in Marvel Movies Thread - Holy Shitballs:
For audiences, it'll be easier for them to connect the idea of Dr. Doom in this universe basically being an Iron Man in a new suit he's designed as well as the idea he learned magic like Dr. Strange did.
That is if they remember that part of the character considering how most media disregards that part of Doom’s repertoire.
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@Cockycent said in Marvel Movies Thread - Holy Shitballs:
Thanos was anything, but last minute. He was the one that gave Loki the army and sent him in Phase 1.
Nope, that's the magic trick. They have a loose outline, and retroactively say all these pieces fit together, but they were mostly BSing as they went along. They were able to adjust and move things around as they went.
They juggled to make it work and retconned but mostly did it cleanly.
They didn't COMMIT to having Thanos be THE big bad until a while later. Plans are all well and good, but plans change based on need. Like all the shuffling needed when they were able to add Spiderman.
Between Thanos' brief post-credits scene in Avengers 1, and when he finally shows up seven years later in Avengers 3... which was THIRTEEN movies... He shows up a little in Guardians1, not at all in Guardians 2, no one else ever mentions him, and he has a single post-credits scene where he says "fine I'll do it myself."
The infinity stones got some work up along the way but even those took a hot minute to setup and retcon. It's how you end up with things like Thor 3 having Hela go into to artifact room and say "fake fake fake" in order to clear out all the now plot-holes that didn't match the trajectory of the movies 9 years later. It's why the tesseract went from being a blue cube to an oval infinity stone a few films later. Why they had to make Dr. Strange's magic pendant one conveniently even though it isn't in the comics. And why some of the stones were just taken off-screen.
If say, Guardians had been a flop, to the point they were only going to do one movie in that series, while Ant Man made 2 billion dollars, they could and would have shifted directions drastically to accommodate those facts. But Guardians was a big hit so they got room to breathe in another movie in the meantime... that notably barely mentioned Thanos at all. But they knew then it would be okay to spend an Avengers film with a heavy focus on those guys.
Similarly, if they'd know Black Panther and Captain Marvel were going to be billion dollar hits, they certainly would have had more screen time in the Avengers movies than they got.
By the time they announced Avengers 3 and 4 as a two-part film, they were locked in to doing that story, yes. They'd had hit after hit and nothing had really failed to click outside of some of the sequels, but audiences were mostly going along so they could basically do what they hoped.,
More recently, they made it pretty clear they were intending to do a Young Avengers with Kamala and Kate and inevitably Wanda's kids... but since The Marvels flopped and the Ms. Marvel show was the least well performing show at the time... maybe they put less push on her now. Inhumans was supposed to be a thing until it was an absolute failure of a show and they just pretend it never happened.
Plans shift and change.
As far as Panther, it wasn't him.
They were 100% planning on making him one of the tentpoles of phase 4, since he was one of THE most successful films and one of the remaining hold-over main characters.
Until that was no longer possible.
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@Robby The article I posted has Kevin saying the week of Avengers that until Guardians 1 comes out, Thanos will not be seen again.
Guardians is the same film that Kevin tasked Gunn with making the Infinity Stones origin. That is 4 films later and 2 years in our time.
Thanos was originally supposed to be a bigger part of Guardians as well.
Whedon is gushing over Death and Avengers Annual 1 that influenced Infinity War and Endgame.
The in-betweens are them clearly winging it, but the idea that Thanos was the big bad has been their deal since they allowed Whedon to tinker too much of their foundation.
This Doom idea was struck between end of last year and now because Kang Dynasty was the plan all along "even in title" from different Earth factions assembling their own armies before the next Thanos in
- Black Widow
- Secret Invasion
what kind of tech is the rings in - Shang Chi
- Quantumania
- Loki
separate dimensions and its "Gods" granting abilities - Quantumania - Shang Chi
- Love & Thunder
- Wakanda Forever
- Moon Knight
- Ms. Marvel
The building of Kang and means to defeat his advanced tech is there.
Thanos doesn't have a large enough gap in appearance to compare to this Doom situation. Whedon is speaking of him with intention during the week of Avengers release. Kevin is promising him for Guardians. They had to decrease his standing in Guardians. 1 of the architects of Phase 1 (McFeely who is now back for Doomsday and Secret Wars) are tasked with building Infinity War and Endgame in 2015 and they speak to whether he will have large flashbacks or not.
Brolin signed his contract in 2014 and takes it from Poitier (lol him being Goldface in Flash is still hilarious)
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I think you're misunderstanding from the way I initially phrased it, and that's on me.
Thanos was the plan, yes.
But his actual, genuine introduction to the audience, was last minute.The plan boiled down to "drop in this character design, and we'll eventually get to this one comic storyline." And that was it. They didn't know the details of the infinity stones, they didn't know exactly what pieces and characters would be where, they didn't know what stage Gamora and Nebula would be at, (Gamora was supposed to die in Guardians 2!) or anything.
The details on Thanos' motivation and exactly how much focus to give him and his personality and relation to other characters? The nuances with Gamora and his "destroy exactly half of life" thing? That wasn't anything until Avengers 3. Outside of existing, and having screwed with his daughters, he was a complete blank slate. You could have plopped literally ANY personality, any goal, any motivation into that character and the buildup would have been exactly the same. Movie Thanos was pretty different from comic Thanos. There was no courting a literal personification of Death for instance.
"Badguy goes here" was the plan. They didn't have Thanos, as we knew him, until we met him 18 films in. He wasn't even cast until after we'd already seen him once!
Same applies here. They've spent a few years building up the multiverse stuff to inevitably have a big clash of variants fighting each other and obviously some big bad trying to take control of everything, but as long as the big bad gets screen time and development when they actually show up, what's the difference?
He didn't get 30 seconds of post-credit cameos first? Kang had some actual build up, but he was also already beaten multiple times, Quantumania was a flop and the tv shows are optional, so much of the audience won't know or care about him, or feel he's already been covered, so it's not a huge deal for him to jobber to the new big bad (which is what happened in the comics!) It'd be different if he'd cleanly defeated Ant-Man and been a still relevant bigger threat.
All the random plot threads and characters still get strung together (we're probably going to see very little of the Eternals or the Marvels though) and it blows through to introduce the X-men into the universe with a big soft reboot at the end so they can recast the big characters.
There's a "masked villain goes here" grand plan for Avengers 5, and maybe it was supposed to be Kang, maybe that was always a red herring to give way to Doom, but the actual overall plan and goal is generally the same. As long as there's someone there to try and control everything, the details are fine to make up along the way.
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Do you think they didn’t just recast Kang because Jonathan Majors had some clause in his contract that only he could play Kang?
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I think they've been willing to recast characters after 1 appearance, or many many years inbetween, but they're more hesitant to do it for someone that's been the character multiple times. Especially when they have such a huge roster of thousands to pick from.
Like if they REALLY wanted Kang, it would be incredibly easy to just have him show up in full costume and be in the blue mask for a bit before they showed his actual face, and the audience would be in by that point. Far easier than it was replacing Rhodey, which is still the most jarring change just because Howard and Cheadle look and sound SO different and have SUCH different energy. To this day I feel Howard had better chemistry with Downey, even though Cheadle is the better actor.
I think Quantumania flopped, and then the actor did a spousal abuse, and so they just want the distance at this point rather than try to salvage it and bring the controversy back up. Because even though they got rid of the actor, the fact of recasting would bring those stories back around all the same. If Antman 3 had been a hit, or left on a cliffhanger with Kang triumphant, it might be a different story.
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Yes, I agree, he was definitely last minute.
As far as Majors, I think it is no secret that it is about money. There was this discussion (Tarantino I believe initiated it) about if the comic characters and brand is the "star/draw" or is it the actor/actress. Truth is that it is the combination that maximizes it.
RDJ can go do something else as top billing and it most likely may not generate the same fanfare or come close most of the time. Same for Holland who is currently going through a similar "struggle". Some retort with "well, what about Oppenheimer" which is not a great example to use. Nolan, the character it is about, and Cillian finally getting that big blockbuster, not to mention a very deep ensemble carries that film. RDJ is not given top billing to carry that film. To go even further, the Barbie marketing that Universal and Warner pulled off together was impressive.
RDJ returning is no different than using Tobey, Garfield, Molina, Dafoe, Hugh, etc. It is a sure thing. You need top names from the Marvel nostalgia inventory that can maximize the brand as opposed to carrying the brand. They elevate each other for the whole.
Majors was a new star that was quickly rising and they were banking on him. Point is that him and Kang was such a good marriage that I really doubt they would recast.
With Ruffalo, it was inconsequential in comparison. They arrogantly did the same with Cheadle and Harrison Ford. It is 1 of those things when you give "trouble", they can use the difficult excuse and keep it pushing. As soon as 1 fan makes a fuss over Ross new actor, another goes well, it's Harrison Ford and there is no longer a conversation. Or even worse than that, "well, lets go over the former actor's history" and that doesn't go well.
T'Challa is just a unique situation where the cast feelings and a cultural aspect is involved. There is no way to "win" there.
Recasting Kang is possible, but I think they have their new shiny thing + were dedicated to that actor, so it is most likely an abandoned situation.
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hahahahaa you got to be fucking kidding me we will never get a competent live action doom ever will we
this shit is hilarious the poor guy has such infamy on the levels of magneto but he'll never get the respect he deserves like its a shitty curse or something -
Why can't they just go to England and get another Shakespearean actor like they did for Xavier and Magneto?
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I think they may save their 616 Doom for later with an actor like that. Only doubt I have is that once you make Doom the big bad and he is from a different universe, what is the point of Doom from the 616?
From my experience, Doom has been everything from the big bad, to the roaming antagonist, and even assistance. So I can see the possibility after, but this whole thing just feels cheap. It's not impossible to tell a great story.
Blastaar is my favorite villain, so I feel bad for Doom fans that have waited for him and the first iteration is RDJ's return to guarantee a billion dollar film.
Shakman is making it too obvious, so RDJ's Doom is most likely in F4. Do you put him in Blade too? It is the last film for now before Doomsday.
As expected when they first announced the recast, the Ford media rollout has not let me down. If he is like this now, just wait until the weeks before release
Yes, just go all the way through with it lol
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@Shiebs said in Marvel Movies Thread - Holy Shitballs:
Do you think they didn’t just recast Kang because Jonathan Majors had some clause in his contract that only he could play Kang?
Yeah, that’s what I heard from this hot scoop or shot of poop “reference to the podcast the clip is from”
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@Gizmo said in Marvel Movies Thread - Holy Shitballs:
@Shiebs said in Marvel Movies Thread - Holy Shitballs:
Do you think they didn’t just recast Kang because Jonathan Majors had some clause in his contract that only he could play Kang?
Yeah, that’s what I heard from this hot scoop or shot of poop “reference to the podcast the clip is from”
I knew it!
Thanks!
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Keep in mind, they call it hot scoop or shot of poop because they’re breaking the story from what they heard and that’s not from another official source, so it might not be real, but can totally buy that as the reason.
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Yeah . . . I love ya, RDJ, but that's too much.
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I get the complaints, but if RDJ and the Russos are getting that much then the guys on top are getting significantly more. In general I don't think it's super helpful to conversations about the issues with worker pay in the U.S. to harp on about actors, athletes, and that sort of high earner when they only can make so much because of how their work plays a role in huge media and merchandise corporations underpaying workers both domestically and overseas. The issues are much deeper than multi-million dollar paychecks to thespians imo.
