Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !
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I mean the Red Jacket series benefits from the fact that the voice cast is so good and that Lupin is an already a goofy series that the extra jokes don't hurt it as much even if a lot of them flop.
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You can when you have the old wealthy German gentleman with a bad accent in a huge zeppelin with a crowd of famous detectives suggest they start playing a game of Hungry, Hungry Hippos. That line always felt unnatural.
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Classic case of zeppelin envy
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@wolfwood said in Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !:
@Ivotas oh man thanks for reminding me of those films. I've been meaning to pick up that box set. And yeah it's pretty much the same thing, disregarding authenticity or whatever you call it and taking out wide swings and doing improv to make the dialogue pop better.
In which language would you pick them up if I migh ask? Because as far as I'm familiar it was only the German dub that intentionally went overboard with the whacky dub.
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Oh I forgot to ask, Greg, why did Oda abandon his no death rule?
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@Shiebs said in Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !:
Oh I forgot to ask, Greg, why did Oda abandon his no death rule?
Because Greg Told him to.
I joke with that phrasing, but really, it's entirely possible that Greg was a factor.
He sent him a long handwritten note about how the stakes and emotions of the series were harmed by the 100% survival rate, and Oda may have taken it to heart. The story is somewhere in this thread.
Maybe others also told him this but I like going with the Greg explanation. Just like Greg showing Oda Game of Thrones led to things.
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The weird thing about the deaths is that I'm not getting the reaction out of it I should have. And that's because of the longterm ramifications of the no death policy. Since this is a new development I yet have to get used to I don't feel the impact of someone seemingly dying but rather the meta level reaction of "wait a second, Oda actually killed of a character". Definitely on the right track but you can't simply undo a several decade long "they survived anyways" conditioning.
Also if I can just add a little bit of critisism on the deaths. They felt a bit random. Kinda like "wait, why is this character dead and the other one survived something similar" kind of thing. But as I said, definitely on the right track here. It's nice to know that there are actual stakes now. I still think that I will take a bit more time for that to sink in though.
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The deaths that have any sort of oumph behind them get undone, the who even cares deaths stick. Feels, like you said, fairly random at times.
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@wolfwood said in Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !:
The deaths that have any sort of oumph behind them get undone, the who even cares deaths stick. Feels, like you said, fairly random at times.
Yep, that's pretty much it. When Asura Doji went down I didn't think he was dead. Once I realized he was actually dead I genuinely felt something along the lines of "wait Oda killed someone... well who cares about Doji anyways". Meaning I got a bigger emotional reaction out of the meta level surprise that the in world loss of a character.
Izo would be another prime example. When he went down to CP0 I didn't feel much about his defeat. And to find out chapters later that he actually died that is actually kinda pathetic because it just felt like "yeah well, whatever". Again the bigger emotional reaction was the actual surprise and not him losing. Yet on the other hand Kanjuro comes back several times when especially his first defeat would have actually meant something. I mean it was even off screened which was lame but at least the confrontation had some emotional oopmh to it. But nope, he's back again and again.
I hope that Oda will do a little bit of fine tuning since I think he truly doesn't know how to successfully kill of a character that is not an important person to the main cast and who's death signifies a pivotal point in said characters lives. This is what you get when you avoid dealing with this early in the story.
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@wolfwood said in Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !:
For the longest time Luffy bothered me because i had read it as Ruffy so long
Ruffy makes me think good dog.
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I'm waiting to see if the no death rule show up later or if was just lifted for Wano in order to capture the samurai feeling better.I got the impression Oda was mostly focused on paying great hommage to samurai stories and as a result some of his usual patterns were less present. And I think that's how we got some death and the Hiyori final speech where its a great component of an epic samurai tale but feel odd in the context of one piece so far. So I'll wait to see what new patterns stick post Wano.
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The lacking oumph behind the deaths really is a problem. Aside from maybe Yasuie all of these deaths completely lack any emotional impact and meaning.
This really might be the only one where I actually might have felt something different aside from "Whatever, next.". And still, it has nothing, absolutely nothing, on Pell's death which got executed so well and masterfully by Oda. (That is, not considering the retcon.)
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As someone who only caught up with Wano during the break (making it the only arc I've dropped not once, but twice), I had both Izo and Ashura's deaths spoiled for me, but even then I got no reaction out of them.
I like the concept of Ashura's; the one Scabbard who gave up hope ends up being the one who sacrifices himself for the cause is a nice short character arc. But he's so unnoteworthy and ignored past the first act that it lacks the oomph needed. The fact that he died in an explosion (in a world where people survive worse) and that he was probably the least popular Scabbard leaves this nagging sense that Oda killed him because his death would cause the least backlash.
Izo... nothing was going to make that one work without a massive rewrite. The character is even less notable and more of a wet cabbage than Ashura was. I might as well cry for a box of cardboard.
They also feel like safe choices as well. Like if Oda really had guts, he should have killed off both Dogstorm and Catviper. That would have at least improved the ending of Carrot's story with it being their dying wish that she be put in charge of Zou. Speaking of which, Pedro is could be an example of a death having more impact given how he actually mattered in the Whole Cake storyline. Of course, there's still a chance he pops up in the Vinsmoke cover arc, so I'm not holding my breath. But as far as Wano goes, only Yasuie really worked for me.
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@puffing-cinema Remember when Bepo, Shachi and Penguin are confused when Luffy calls Law “Traffy”. Its not because they’re mentally incapacitated, its because Luffy was saying “Torao” which means Traffy AND sounds like Tiger-dude
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Greg, one thing I wanted to ask you about is the new entity mentioned few chapters ago, the "Knights of God" that were implied to be even above the World Nobles. Serving Imu directly (I guess) they might be very strong, or not? CP-0 was a total disappointment...
I liked the idea that the Gorosei would be pretty strong (bald one has the sword of Kozuki Kotetsu for a reason (?)), but the new unit likely makes it unnecessary.
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@Scabbard-Avenger
I'm not Greg, but my 2 cents:I think the "Holy Knights" are just Mary Geoise police force. A group to enforce order among "gods".
We've seen some knight-like figures around the Celestial Dragons in Sabaody and guarding the gates of the God Land in Mary Geoise.
I don't think they are necessarily strong as a whole, but there may be some strong ones. I even guess that Ryokugyuu was one of them before he was drafted into the marines.
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@Robby said in Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !:
@Shiebs said in Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !:
Oh I forgot to ask, Greg, why did Oda abandon his no death rule?
Because Greg Told him to.
I joke with that phrasing, but really, it's entirely possible that Greg was a factor.
He sent him a long handwritten note about how the stakes and emotions of the series were harmed by the 100% survival rate, and Oda may have taken it to heart. The story is somewhere in this thread.
Maybe others also told him this but I like going with the Greg explanation. Just like Greg showing Oda Game of Thrones led to things.
This is great, I really hated all the death cop outs
Good to see that there are stakes in the story
Thank You Greg!!!!
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Greg asks Oda to kill off more characters.
Oda applies this request to Ashura and Izo instead of Kin'emon.
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Oda deserves the Kinemon fake out just for no one having guessed how it worked and it being really nostalgic in hindsight. Like heck, who else remembers the beginnings of Punk Hazard and how gloriously mysterious everything was. A dragon with talking legs attached was our formal introduction to the New World. I salute you, Kinemon.
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Yes, I can't hate the Kin'emon legs gag since it was a decade-old joke in the making.
It's kinda like Usopp's inevitably true lies. It's just amazing when it happens years from when he said it.
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@andre said in Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !:
A dragon with talking legs attached was our formal introduction to the New World. I salute you, Kinemon
Legs that talked by farting, if you please. I happened to re-read parts of Punk Hazard recently and indeed, it was glorious.
After a decade we may not have seen much of the madness the New World geography had promised, but Punk Hazard was one hell of a start. -
Submitted a fairly lengthy piece about the grim reaper for my column that draws some pretty wide-reaching conclusions. Interested to see what/if anything gets through the gauntlet of approvals.
(also finally cleared Storm's Crown EX via PF and the very next Loot PF we cleared 3x on one food. a2c PF jail is a harsh jail.)
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@Greg said in Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !:
Submitted a fairly lengthy piece about the grim reaper for my column that draws some pretty wide-reaching conclusions. Interested to see what/if anything gets through the gauntlet of approvals.
Do you think they'll be even more careful about approving your columns if they veer towards the truth, given that we're in the final arc?
@Seafarer33 said in Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !:
@andre said in Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !:
A dragon with talking legs attached was our formal introduction to the New World. I salute you, Kinemon
Legs that talked by farting, if you please. I happened to re-read parts of Punk Hazard recently and indeed, it was glorious.
After a decade we may not have seen much of the madness the New World geography had promised, but Punk Hazard was one hell of a start.Yeah, Punk Hazard was by far the place that seemed closest to what was promised in our peak at the New World Post-Marineford. I think Zou and Wano are both pretty fantastic locales as well.
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On the locales at least I don't think that the New World disappoints. I guess disappointment always comes with what we expect of the New World to be. If our main outlook on things is just real danger, then it might feel a bit lackluster. But then again, One Piece has always been a story where Luffy and the strong guys in the crew will not have much troubles with kicking anyone's but who is not the main antagonist of the next locale. So I guess expecting a higher level of danger is setting oneself up for disappointment because the Strawhats get gradually stronger throughout their adventures, meaning if we come to the next dangerous island, the fodder might be stronger than in previous arcs, but it will still pose no threat to Luffy, Zoro or Sanji. Still I do understand where you guys are coming from.
That out of the way, I feel that in terms of crazyness the new locales totally delivered. I always think about Rayleigh's lines about the Grand Line continuing to throw crazy stuff at the Strwhats. In Dressrosa we went to an island inhabited by toys, right next to an island inhabited by gnomes. Zou as friggin huge elefant with a country on it, inhabited by animal people. In Tottoland literally everything could become a sentient being. I definitely think that this is a one up to Paradise where most of the inhabitants of the locales (except for Thriller Bark) were regular humans. On that accord the New World totally delivered. Doesn't meant that it hasn't been lackluster in other parts.
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Good point about tottoland being inhabited by sentient objects. The forest where Luffy fought Cracker was right out of a storybook and our true introduction to Big Mom was incredible.
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@Greg said in Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !:
Submitted a fairly lengthy piece about the grim reaper for my column that draws some pretty wide-reaching conclusions. Interested to see what/if anything gets through the gauntlet of approvals.
(also finally cleared Storm's Crown EX via PF and the very next Loot PF we cleared 3x on one food. a2c PF jail is a harsh jail.)
Does it have anything to do with Pluton?
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@andre said in Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !:
Good point about tottoland being inhabited by sentient objects. The forest where Luffy fought Cracker was right out of a storybook and our true introduction to Big Mom was incredible.
That part was truly amazing and IMO what makes One Piece a pleasure to read. Adventures on fantastic and creative locales. I was a bit sad that back then many people considered this a waste of time and just wanted to get to the climax respectively main conflict quickly. I'm not here to tell people which things they should appreciate about One Piece (except if you are a Buggy fan in which case you are objectively in the wrong
) but I feel that if people are unable to appreciate the adventurous part of One Piece, they are robbing themselves of a very fantastic experience. -
@andre said in Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !:
Yeah, Punk Hazard was by far the place that seemed closest to what was promised in our peak at the New World Post-Marineford. I think Zou and Wano are both pretty fantastic locales as well
They absolutely are, both full of improbable geography, rich with history and worldbuilding details. Only drawback is they lack the crazy dangerous vibe - which Punk Hazard nailed perfectly - I had come to expect for New World islands.
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Wait, what is this Punk Hazard appreciation doing in here? Wasn't the consensus that it sucks?
(I'm a PH apologist myself).
Also, what Ivotas said - WCI is so much fun precisely because of the adventuring on strange, fairytale-esque lands. In fact, I could've had even more of that and less Germa (even though the Germa brought their own brand of weird with the snail-lego-castle, that was cool).
Man, WCI is good. Talking trees, rivers of juice, King Kong Big Mom, the mirror world, chess piece soldiers, candy stairs, shouting giraffe juice, people stuck in books, talking doors, musical numbers, Big News, tart battleships and tart tanks with sentient, dumb as hell cannonballs that can be fooled into changing trajectories...We were eating so good and yet most didn't appreciate it.
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Punk Hazard was great, especially coming right after Fishman Island, until the kids came along.
Then we went straight into Run Piece for a couple months and that kinda killed the arc (and also set the standard for almost the entirety of what came next).Curiosity has its own reason for existing
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@kouch_lee I have my issues with Whole Cake, most of them relating to the Supersentai Eugenics Asshole Aristocrats, but the arc still has maybe the coolest aesthetic in the series, and regardless of their handling, the characters have flavor (lolz food pun) to spare.
I have some affection for Punk Hazard which feels like the last gasps of One Piece Classic Flavor, and has a lot of nice character moments- my main issues is Law taking up all the oxygen in the room (lolz another pun!) with plans that don't always make sense, and a somewhat flat finale. The arc feels like something built to be a lean 35 ish chapter affair, not a near 50 one. Also I don't mind the kids, its nice to have some personal stakes to bring the pathos. Arc-specific characters/plotlines is usually where the dramatic meat of arcs is.
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@Daz I re-read PH relatively recently, and I think we can label it the LAST Straw Hat centric arc of the series,at least up until now. Even with Law in there, it's still mostly the Strawhats interacting and doing their thingie. A lot of this SH moments won't be talked about because they are not "huge", but I was surprised, for example, about how much Brook is just in there doing his thing for a sizable chunk of the arc and I was like "Brook is kinda cool, isn't he?". There's a lot of that during the arc, and it's nice (as long as you can tolerate Sanji at his absolute worst). Chopper and Nami are really invested in the drama, too. Even Usopp gets his "don't disrespect my captain, assholes!" moment.
As you say, though, 50 chapters is overkill for what the arc ultimately is. Law stealing the fight from Smoker AND curing the kids with his "magic" instead of letting Chopper shine leaves this huge sour aftertaste. Zoro vs. Monet sucks ass and is Oda doubling down on his own Problematic Road (which seems to have been toned down at least during Wano). Another thing that doesn't sit well with me is that Oda seemed to get a kick out of disrespecting Nico Robin like crazy: she was the only one to contribute NOTHING to the big dragon fight (Usopp got to lend Zoro a trampoline!) and then was caught off guard by Monet and...that was it. Her fight with Black Maria giving her like 2 new forms + Fishman Karate looks like an apology for doing her so dirty during PH and Dressrosa, and I really appreciate that it happened. . .but, seriously, she's supposed to be on the upper echelons of the SH fighters, that respect should've been always there.
The kids are ok, Kinemon got one of the best introductions in the entire series (seriously, they had to collect his body parts one at a time, and when he's finally reassembled he proceeds to cut a giant explosion - how cool is that?), Brownbeard was surprisingly effective as a character no one expected anything from and Caesar is a great villain. Needed more fire side of the island, though.
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@kouch_lee I agree with pretty much everything you said. Brook fighting off the centaurs on the ice beach in order to protect his captain is a low-key great moment, in particular. And remember the Franky Tank? I will also add that I thought CC was pretty effective as a very punchable villain- that chapter where he retrieves the candy-addicted kids or, that one panel of him musing that "the kids are probably gonna drop soon- better get some new ones!" are peak scumbag within this series. I also thought his abilities were pretty nifty, actually building on the various attributes of "Gas" in a very classic OP way (even if his DF is a bit more sprawling than say, Crocs, since it covers various gasses).
In general for OP post skip I find that the arcs shine when allowed to do their own thing, and suffer from the various strands connecting them to the "Bigger Picture", both past ("this arc needs to be the payoff to something that happened multiple arcs ago!"), but mostly future (this arc needs to set up the next two arcs!)
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Curiously I just reread PH (finished it yesterday), and it really is one of those arcs that looks a lot better now - not precisely because it aged well, but because things got a lot worse in some aspect in the most recent arcs, and regarding PH that aspect would be the SH focus.
The setting is very bland, the cast of support characters for that arc is very boring except for Kin’emon (I love Caesar, but he grows after PH), but getting to see the SH and their antics be the stars again is amazing.With that said, I will take the chance to vent out how Chopper is painfully incompetent in this arc to the point it is infuriating.
I only remembered the “it was Law who treated the kids unsteady of him” bit, but that was just the cherry at the top.
First he watches the crew be supposedly killed by the gas without moving a single finger to help just because a mystery paper told him not to.
Then he manages to get to the Biscuit room before the kids and instead of throwing the candy away and destroying it, he decides he must “protect” it and leaves Mocha (one of the addicted kids) taking care of it. Proceeds to use his absolute stronger point to fight off some enraged kids, manages to fail miserably, thus endangering the little kid he decided to put in harms way (“grab the candy and protect it with your life!”), leading to the girl attempting suicide to achieve what he should have tasked himself with doing while he watched limply.
And then, of course, to add insult to injury, it’s up to Law to treat the immediate effects of the candy and for the long-lasting ones “we‘ll ask Vegapunk to look at it”.
At this point I wonder if Chopper’s bounty is really a joke or a statement of how Oda perceives the character. -
It's been a while since I've read Punk Hazard but didn't Chopper protect the Candy so that an antidote could be made? Or was there another reason provided?
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I refuse to acknowledge Punk Hazard as a good arc no matter what it has in the way of Strawhat interactions, which I think sucked. I don’t like Law taking up most of the arc’s glory, Fire Island is the blandest place in the series and Ice Island isn’t much better, Smoker and Tashigi were treated as crap, Caesar is an uninteresting villain (he’s callous towards kids, big deal, lots of villains are) and Vergo is so dull that the arc would have better if he wasn’t there, the escape from the gas goes on too long (which in true One Piece fashion, no actually dies from).
And honestly, Punk Hazard was probably Oda at his most sexist (the whole Dressrosa mini-saga is him at his worst). You have the atrocity of the Monet fight with Zoro refusing to finish her off some god damn reason, the awful body switch plot where Sanji ends up in Nami’s body and starts groping it and acting extra disgusting and Nami ending up in Franky’s and then gets pointlessly kidnapped by the stupid brothers (can you imagine Oda doing the same thing if had been Sanji in Franky’s body or Franky himself, I can’t), the damn robot jokes because apparently that’s a thing, Baby 5, and that’s just of things I can remember.
The only things I ended up liking where Kin’emon and Mocha for trying to keep the other kids away from the “candy” (and I had to look her name up). But Punk Hazard sucked while reading at release (it’s the first One Piece arc I believe I dropped mid-way) and it sucked during a re-read. In fact, it's as bad as Wano is for me.
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@Greg said in Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !:
The narrative positioned Vivi to join at the last second.
Vivi did not.The narrative positioned Yamato to join at the last second.
Yamato did not.Actually the narrative positioned Yamato to join for about 1.5 years if I'm counting correctly. Or perhaps longer than that.
If the same happened with Vivi, I would have been pissed the same way (or just a bit less because Alabasta was a much more satisfying arc than Wano anyway).Instead, Vivi joining was presented as a possibility only at the end. And of course the possibility had to be considered given how much time she had spent bonding with the crew, but there was never a legitimate expectation that she had to join.
It's fair to compare Vivi and Yamato, but only to stress the profound differences between the two character stories. And those differences are what makes the handling of Vivi very good, and the handling of Yamato very bad.
NOT EVEN CLOSE, SIR!
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@Greg said in Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !:
I'm saying that:
The narrative positioned Vivi to join at the last second.
Vivi did not.The narrative positioned Yamato to join at the last second.
Yamato did not.Please define the "Yamato did not" part. Because her claiming several times that she will board Luffy's ship and sail with the Strawhat's, is something I personally would consider as the character positioning herself to join.
Don't get me wrong, I was one of the guys, who said she wouldn't join. So I'm not saying this is a surprise. I'm just trying to understand what it is that you are saying here.
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@Xelloss Yeah, I agree with this - the major, crucial difference between Vivi and Yamato is that Vivis ultimate choice was set up as a choice in the text right at the end, and hung explicitly over the last four chapters of the arc. The Straw hats were waiting for the answer as much as the readers were, and when the awaited answer comes it makes not only total character sense but is delivered with great cathartic fanfare - even if Vivi doesn't join, the scene still works like gangbusters. Also, Vivi hadn't spent Alabasta talking about how much she wanted to sail with the crew afterwards.
With Yamato there is never any indication that he needs to make, or even considers a choice, and the revelation that he has changed his mind offscreen at the last moment based on nothing in particular is a footnote in the chapter. Every bit of glorious dramatic juice was wrung from Vivis decline over several consecutive weeks, whereas Yamatos just lands with a limp thud at the end.
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@Bugs said in Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !:
I refuse to acknowledge Punk Hazard as a good arc no matter what it has in the way of Strawhat interactions, which I think sucked. I don’t like Law taking up most of the arc’s glory, Fire Island is the blandest place in the series and Ice Island isn’t much better, Smoker and Tashigi were treated as crap, Caesar is an uninteresting villain (he’s callous towards kids, big deal, lots of villains are) and Vergo is so dull that the arc would have better if he wasn’t there, the escape from the gas goes on too long (which in true One Piece fashion, no actually dies from).
And honestly, Punk Hazard was probably Oda at his most sexist (the whole Dressrosa mini-saga is him at his worst). You have the atrocity of the Monet fight with Zoro refusing to finish her off some god damn reason, the awful body switch plot where Sanji ends up in Nami’s body and starts groping it and acting extra disgusting and Nami ending up in Franky’s and then gets pointlessly kidnapped by the stupid brothers (can you imagine Oda doing the same thing if had been Sanji in Franky’s body or Franky himself, I can’t), the damn robot jokes because apparently that’s a thing, Baby 5, and that’s just of things I can remember.
The only things I ended up liking where Kin’emon and Mocha for trying to keep the other kids away from the “candy” (and I had to look her name up). But Punk Hazard sucked while reading at release (it’s the first One Piece arc I believe I dropped mid-way) and it sucked during a re-read. In fact, it's as bad as Wano is for me.
Going over most of your complaints, I don't even disagree. Sanji in Namis body and Zoro vs Monet alone are some of the most cringe moments of the series, and stuff like the handling of Smoker and Tashigi is frustrating. I just think that even in a compromised and somewhat lesser form, the more classical format of the arc - with its WAY smaller cast and plethora of Straw Hat moments- helps provide a lot of fun beats to go along with the bad, at least in terms of Straw Hat antics.
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I didn't mean the kids themselves being an issue, in fact they were excellent emotional hook and made Caesar a believable villain (not so much a comfortable comic relief and unlikely ally later though, can't allways have your cake and eat it too Oda...), it's just that their appearance triggers the portion of the arc where a part of the cast has to be kept busy running in a straight line while other situations are sorted out or set up, but for some reason we still need weekly updates on their marathon. That added to the other aggravating factors coming into play at the same time, such as the lacking of properly threatening villains for the second arc in a row, Law wanking monopolizing the entirety of the spotlight, the rising of "muh haki", the ticking time bomb being something completely contrived and lackluster... basically much of the same problem that most of the following arcs would have suffered.
The first bit of exploration and mystery was nearly perfect though. -
@Ivotas said in Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !:
It's been a while since I've read Punk Hazard but didn't Chopper protect the Candy so that an antidote could be made? Or was there another reason provided?
Unless I missed something, no explanation. I was hoping that one would be given, but nah (still wouldn’t make sense to task Mocha with it instead of doing it himself, but it would be less terrible).
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@Ivotas said in Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !:
That out of the way, I feel that in terms of crazyness the new locales totally delivered. I always think about Rayleigh's lines about the Grand Line continuing to throw crazy stuff at the Strwhats. In Dressrosa we went to an island inhabited by toys, right next to an island inhabited by gnomes. Zou as friggin huge elefant with a country on it, inhabited by animal people. In Tottoland literally everything could become a sentient being. I definitely think that this is a one up to Paradise where most of the inhabitants of the locales (except for Thriller Bark) were regular humans. On that accord the New World totally delivered. Doesn't meant that it hasn't been lackluster in other parts.
I dunno. What bothers me is that most of these locations actually are super generic and boring, if you remove the human/DF-related factors that actually made these places to what they now are.
Like weren't all of Totland's islands actually super generic before Streussen did his thing. As well as Punk Hazard before Caesar did his experiment followed by the Admirals' battle. Wano also seemed to be nothing special before the border closing measures were taken.
In the Paradise, however, we had stuff like Little Garden and Skypiea. Really, absolutely nothing tops the craziness of the islands in the sky and the knock-up-stream leading upwards to them. And that was a completely natural phenomenon - perfectly showing the difference between the Grand Line in contrast to the blues.
I really miss this craziness - without actually learning shortly after that there's nothing special about this place if it were not artifically created by Devil Fruits. (Though Zou somewhat may count.)
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@access-timeco said in Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !:
@Ivotas said in Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !:
It's been a while since I've read Punk Hazard but didn't Chopper protect the Candy so that an antidote could be made? Or was there another reason provided?
Unless I missed something, no explanation. I was hoping that one would be given, but nah (still wouldn’t make sense to task Mocha with it instead of doing it himself, but it would be less terrible).
Oh, I see. Well that is kinda silly then. I will have to re-read that part too at some point just to see what the hell Chopper has been doing then.
@ARTEMlS said in Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !:
@Ivotas said in Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !:
That out of the way, I feel that in terms of crazyness the new locales totally delivered. I always think about Rayleigh's lines about the Grand Line continuing to throw crazy stuff at the Strwhats. In Dressrosa we went to an island inhabited by toys, right next to an island inhabited by gnomes. Zou as friggin huge elefant with a country on it, inhabited by animal people. In Tottoland literally everything could become a sentient being. I definitely think that this is a one up to Paradise where most of the inhabitants of the locales (except for Thriller Bark) were regular humans. On that accord the New World totally delivered. Doesn't meant that it hasn't been lackluster in other parts.
I dunno. What bothers me is that most of these locations actually are super generic and boring, if you remove the human/DF-related factors that actually made these places to what they now are.
Like weren't all of Totland's islands actually super generic before Streussen did his thing. As well as Punk Hazard before Caesar did his experiment followed by the Admirals' battle. Wano also seemed to be nothing special before the border closing measures were taken.
In the Paradise, however, we had stuff like Little Garden and Skypiea. Really, absolutely nothing tops the craziness of the islands in the sky and the knock-up-stream leading upwards to them. And that was a completely natural phenomenon - perfectly showing the difference between the Grand Line in contrast to the blues.
I really miss this craziness - without actually learning shortly after that there's nothing special about this place if it were not artifically created by Devil Fruits. (Though Zou somewhat may count.)
I guess it comes down to personal preference but I don't think that it takes away from the craziness factor, just because many of those weird things are manmade, respectively Devil Fruit made. Rayleigh said, the Grand Line will contintue to exceed their expectations, not that this would have to do with the island would be more generic. And the islands aren't even generic to begin with. Just because we find out that some of them look as they do because humans changed the shape doesn't take away from the innitial reaction.
And if you want generic Arabasta is a pretty generic sand island. There's nothing standing out as particularly unique at the first shot we see of the island when the Strawhats arrive. If anything, it has to be the most unimpressing island shot we ever got of the Strawhats arriving at a new locale in the Grand Line. Same with Jaya. I love that arc but the island is as generic a pirate island as it gets. Or how about Water Seven. True, that one is not generic. But if you bring up, manmade as an argument for why an island is lesser impressive then we also have to say, that Water Seven is just a normal island, where people build a city on top of an old city that has sunk already. Thriller Bark is completely manmade to begin with. Moria simply took an island (no small feat, I give you that) and slapped a mast(mansion) on it and turned it into a sailing island/pirate ship. But take appart the crazy components that make Thriller Bark the worlds largest pirate ship and you end up with a pretty generic looking island.
Don't get me wrong. I do understand where you are coming from. But I feel that the arguments that you bring are not as clear cut as they might seem to you and that there's definitely a lot of looking through nostalgia goggles going on. It's not like I cannot relate to that but still, it does mean that the argument has to be put a bit into perspective.
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@Ivotas Yeah, it's personal preference and only a minor issue for me compared to some of the bigger problems of present day One Piece.
The main difference, though, is that for most Paradise island it feels that nature was there first, and then humans came and had to adapt to it, whereas in the New World it's the other way for most islands (at least the main ones on the Strawhat route).
Like Water 7, sure, that city is manmade. But at first there was the Aqua Laguna and then came people and as a result of the nature phenomenon they build a water themed city around it. Same for Drum or Alabasta, first there was that very specific climate and as a result we got kingdoms who had to adjust to the nature.
And that is what I'm missing. Not for every island, but at least for quite some of these New World islands.
Forum user Bartholemew Bear passed away in a very moving and touching way. I, ARTEMlS, therefore carry on the Will of DArth for good unto its final fulfilment.
