@Zik:
It's just a form of denial.
Over time when I see ppl repeat the same stuff and claim that they can't see what others see regardless of how obvious the treatment of Yamato has been since introduction I just chalk it up to denial now especially when they say crazy things like he's an arc only character.
It doesn't make sense otherwise.
But then again I can't claim to understand the type of ppl who made too big to fit through Sunny's doors argument and were serious. And I was against Jimbe joining that entire time.
I just want to emphasize again that being undecided about Yamato doesn't automatically make someone "always wrong about everything."
The people who made those arguments about Jimbei are not the same people who still think Carrot is going to join. I began believing Jimbei would be a Straw Hat the minute he summoned the whale sharks at the end of Impel Down and Shift even drew Jimbei's official Jolly Roger.
Wrong about Yamato? Maybe, maybe not. But you can't extrapolate backwards and try to say "yeah, well are you surprised? these people are wrong about everything," because it's untrue.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
@otakufan:
I think Yamato's goals (stated and unstated) can be broken down into three things:
- He wants to free Wano from his father.
- He wants to be accepted by Wano's samurai.
- He wants to go out to sea.
You are framing goals #2 and #3 as somehow being in conflict with one another. That being accepted by Wano's samurai implies staying in Wano, while going out to sea necessitates leaving it. That Yamato will ultimately have to choose which is more important, and set the other aside.
But fundamentally, I do not believe that is the case. More to the point, I don't believe that's how achieving one's dreams in One Piece operates.
Yamato's words in the short flashback we got seem to state that he wanted to go out to sea from more or less the start - implicitly to get stronger in preparation for the final battle to take down his father 20 years later. As we know, the explody-cuff situation prevented that. He reiterated that desire with Ace, with the same result. And he reiterated it with Luffy, with the result being that his shackles were finally broken, but it was too late to go out to sea before the final battle with Kaidou. Yet he still states he intends to go out to sea with Luffy once the battle is over.
Now on some level I think you are right. I think Yamato believes that, at the end of the day, he will not be accepted by Wano's samurai, and that may factor into why he intends to leave once the battle is over - that he, as "Kaidou's son", wouldn't be welcome if he wanted to stay. Given what Wano did to the Kurozumi clan, he may have good reason to think so, but clearly, that's ultimately a non-issue - once all is said and done, Momonosuke and the Akazaya will welcome Yamato with open arms.
You claim that because Wano's samurai (or the only ones that matter, at least) will accept him, Yamato will choose to stay, discarding his dream of going out to sea as something unnecessary.
This is where we disagree. I think that because Wano's samurai will accept him, that Wano will become the home Yamato can return to once his adventuring days are done, and this allows Yamato to achieve all of his goals, even the ones that seem to conflict with one another. One Piece isn't a series about compromising on your dreams - it's about doing the impossible so you don't have to.
Nothing we have seen from Yamato indicates to me that his stated desire to go out to sea is somehow secondary to his more implicit desire finding some manner of acceptance from the people of Wano. He wants to travel, he wants to see the world, he wants to go on adventures - all of which have been denied to him for the past 20 years due to his imprisonment on Onigashima.
And beyond that, Oden's journal gave him a glimpse into something bigger - the journey of the Roger Pirates, what they'd hoped and failed to accomplish, and what they'd left for those who would follow in their footsteps. Yamato wants to be a part of that, and choosing not to sail with the man who will become the next Pirate King in order to stay behind on Wano ensures that he will never be.
The biggest question unanswered for me and the reason I'm undecided about her joining is her dream. "Go to sea" is vague and non-specific. All of the Straw Hats want to "go to sea." Go to sea…. and do what? What's her dream? What's the thing that can only be accomplished by sailing with the Straw Hats?
'Pirate King!'
'World's Greatest Swordsman!'
'Draw a map of the world!'
'Brave warrior of the sea!'
'Discover All Blue!'
'Become a great doctor!'
'Learn the true history!'
'Build a ship of dreams that reaches the end of the Grand Line!'
'Circumnavigate the globe and reunite with Laboon!'
'Harmonize human and Fishman relations!'
I'm not saying Yamato won't have a more specific dream. But we haven't learned about one yet. I don't think it will be 'free like Oden!' if she joins because Oden was equally about obligation to the land of Wano, particularly in the latter phase of is life. Older and wiser Oden made sacrifices and choices which limited his own freedom (to the point of death) for the sake of his family and his country because he knows Wano's borders need to be open when 'Joyboy returns'. The Oden who ran off to sea without care for anything but adventure was matured by the family he discovered and the things he learned on Laugh Tale and wouldn't have made the same choice at the time he wrote the last entries in the journal which serves as Yamato's source of inspiration. I'm not claiming here that Yamato will absolutely stay. But what I am saying is that right now, we don't know what her primary motivation for sailing with the Straw Hats will be because 'being free like Oden' isn't a good fit. As Deicide pointed out, Yamato viewed going to sea in functional terms when framed as 'being like Oden.' She understood that Oden met Whitebeard and Roger at sea and return to Wano more wise and more powerful. Yamato wanted to follow in Oden's footsteps - so that she could complete that which Oden could not, by driving out her father and opening Wano's borders.
The latter part of her stated goal is being completed first. So what now serves as the basis for Yamato's voyage? If we assume 'Oden's will is complete' with the opening of Wano's borders, that Momo and whoever remains to keep those borders open is the true successor to Oden's will, who is Yamato underneath the Oden costume and what does she want for herself?
I'm not saying those questions won't have answers, just that we don't have answers for them yet and until we do, I'm hesitant to commit to her joining the crew.
As for Carrot, I don't believe there is a limit of 10. Yamato would break the Devil Fruit number theory so many people thought was ironclad. I was never particularly big on that theory myself (I think Smoker is the last Straw Hat), but my point is it's a fan-made rule which many believed could invalidate characters as potential crewmates. I think the hard limit of 10 is another such arbitrary rule. We know Oda's 'original vision' from 1995 (two years before publication started in 1997) was complete with Jimbei. Anyone who joins now is a later addition and Oda has had a lot of time both before publication started and in the years after to find inspiration for more Straw Hats. Yamato, Carrot, both, neither, (smoker :ninja:), no matter what happens here, I think Vivi is coming back to the crew before Laugh Tale, so it really doesn't matter because we'll have more than 10. So I really do not view this as a debate of Yamato vs. Carrot. I think Carrot is going to join still based on what we saw on Whole Cake Island and though she has faded from the spotlight, those story elements haven't been erased and are waiting to be answered. I'm open to changing my stance on Yamato - and have done so already. I didn't think she was going to join at all during the early parts of the raid. I see all of the points currently in the pros column, but I'm just not convinced because of the crucial element discussed in this post. And if my position on Yamato joining does change - if we get a clearer picture of the motivationf or her voyaging with the Straw Hats - it will do nothing to dissuade me of my opinion that Carrot will join. If the crew sails away without Carrot at the end of Wano, yeah, she's not joining. But until then, I see nothing that which has contradicted what we saw earlier in WCI.
