@theackwardstation:
I didn't.
You definitely brought it up yourself several times which is why I didn't feel the need to. I thought it was obvious what I was talking about and why.
Later on you claim to be confused and state two different possible reasonings but I just ignored that cuz I figured my post would be clear that I'm talking about Oden as son of the shogun, his duty, obligations, etc.
My point is that folks with the above mindset (which I said multiple times is not mine) should feel there's a point in the argument that Yamato could stay if Wano needs it. And my ulterior motive is that, otherwise, people could be less condenatory against Oden as if he's responsible.
You don't have to keep repeating its not your mindset. I never once said it was yours.
I did however, say why the comparison to Yamato and applying it to him was wrong. The two characters are in two different situations so it can not apply.
When someone ditches their obligations they're not really responsible for what happens after. Perhaps that's where you're really confused with my stance.
Oden had a duty. He didn't want it. He wanted to leave and explore the world. Didn't get to leave and found himself as daimyo after building up a once lawless area. Still didn't want that responsibility but did it cuz of new friends. When he got his chance though, he ditched them.
It was a selfish decision but he was pursuing his dream and its not like he left them to deal with a bunch of evil bad guys.
It doesn't really matter how you want to frame your argument that's what happened.
Saying Oden never had a duty or obligation to begin with isn't true.
I'm not pretending anything. Even when Oden came back to Wano for the last time, he never intended to be Shogun (see below), which is a sentiment he had his ENTIRE LIFE and always made clear to everybody. Oden never wanted to do anything with royalty and instead chose to be free. He became a pirate when Whitebeard came and that was his true status when he visited Wano with Roger before Laugh Tale, so his only "obligations" should be coherent with this fact (a pirate). If Oden did heroic things and fought against Kaido, those were the action of a FREE man willing to take the burden of others upon himself, not a prince doing his obligations. Oden accepted his lineage as an excuse to protect people, but never because of his will.
So wait you think that Oden thought he could open Wano's borders without being shogun?
What was all that talk of Toki telling Momo he would one day become shogun?
The story says otherwise but again its okay if you think that.
Thank you.
Its okay to be wrong.
Start reading my words with more care, please. I'm tired of having to reply saying that I stated the opposite.
I think you should pay attention to what I'm saying.
It's not my opinion that Yamato should be responsible for his father's actions. I'm against that.
I didn't say that either. Again, read what im actually replying to.
But anyone who thinks that our responsability also rests in our lineage and in our family's actions/status should also think that Yamato has a debt to Wano because of Kaido.
This is what I'm saying is bullshit.
I don't know whats so hard to understand.
You're trying to say anyone who thinks Oden abandoned his obligations because of lineage should also think Yamato owes a debt to Wano because of Kaido's actions.
That is bull shit.
Sorry but that thinking is clearly wrong.
Owen denying obligation is not in any way a parallel to Yamato owing a debt to Wano cuz of his father's actions.
Those are two completely different situations. They're no similar at all.
First off Oden being the son of a shogun and expectations that he should one day rule the country because of lineage has nothing to do with being responsible for his father's actions as shogun or even as a person.
This idea that a child should pay for their parents actions has absolutely nothing to do with the line of succession in a noble family or royalty. You kind of just made this comparison up on the fly and it is a poor one.
Keep in mind again, I'm not saying this is your stance. I'm saying the comparison you're trying to make doesn't work.
Secondly, exactly why as Kaido's son does Yamato become indebted to Wano? That premise involves a bunch of assumptions. Oda literally baked in that subplot with the persecution of the Kurozumi's and you're trying to equate it basically to a prince's duties to his kingdom. They don't have anything to do with each other.
Also if anything, to make a proper comparison, Yamato being Kaido's son would mean Yamato is expected to do the same exact things Kaido has done not being indebted to the ppl of Wano. You know, the stuff Kaido has been telling Yamato in the story?
That's just rethoric, sorry.
Sounds more like playing semantics.
Kaido is the effective ruler of Wano because anything he desires weights above Orochi, who is only the puppet and some sort of minister named Shogun. And you'll find many DIALOGUES stating that reasoning in all three Acts of Wano.
Yeah, that's why CP0 is in Onigashima.
That's why they've been doing business with Orochi for years.
Cuz Kaido told Orochi to?
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
@BobLoblaw:
As they get stronger, so would Yamato. Or are you saying Yamato will stay the same or get weaker as they conveniently get stronger?
Or they'll just get stronger than Yamato.
Yamato doesn't have to stop getting stronger.
Its the same way you assume Jimbe has either stopped getting stronger or Sanji and Zoro have managed to get stronger than him.
It's not me making up a tenet or anything if I'm simply stating what the author has historically done. It's his story and he's chosen to stick to the same dynamic.
You should simply keep thinking this after Yamato joins the crew.
Keep it simple.8k9
8I don't have to pretend when we've seen what happened to Zoro when he challenged a Yonko and what we saw Yamato do against one. You pretend like readers can't make objective observations based on what we've seen in the story in terms of "power levels" with the SHs, but we can. We know that King and Queen are the two strongest in Kaido's crew and that Zoro and Sanji will defeat them. We can trace the "monster three" opponents jack to Arlong Park and it's been consistent, so I don't have to make anything up. The story tells us everything that we need it to and thus far, it's that Luffy, Zoro, and Sanji are consistently portrayed as the strongest SHs.
I've already said this power scaling bullshit.
Its funny though how you can keep two inconsistent thoughts in your mind simultaneously.
The monster trio are always the three strongest strawhats. Yamato is stronger than Sanji and Zoro.
Yamato joins the strawhats
Oh no what will happen to the precious consistent tradition of the monster trio. Seems impossible that Zoro and Sanji will become stronger than Yamato.
Power scaling bullshit at its finest.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
@Deicide:
You don't know what "literally" means, since I didn't say anything like that.
I just took your logic to an extreme and asked you a question based on that.
No you didn't.
You lied. In essence lol.
Nothing about my logic has anything to do with Oden being wrong for following his dreams.
You made that up and can't even own up to that.
It's pathetic.
Any accusation you imagined is solely in your own head.
You should really reread your post.
