For Carrot she must find a way to reappear in the story first. There I said it.
Even if she does appear, she must share the screentime with Neko, who realistically has a shot of defeating Peros.
For Carrot she must find a way to reappear in the story first. There I said it.
Even if she does appear, she must share the screentime with Neko, who realistically has a shot of defeating Peros.
Has it really been 30 chapters? I thought it was less than that. Yamato has spent more time with the locals that he's supposed to be a guardian of than anyone else. Oda probably knew all the Straw Hats were under attack, so it would be pointless for retainer candidate Yamato who is trying to protect Momo, to stay in the vicinity of them.
Tama didn't care. If she had to make it to Luffy in Udon, that was her priority. She made sure her Luffy was freed. Tama is beyond her years. She really manipulated a Yonko to free her future Captain. Poor Chopper should get used to crying on dangerous missions because Tama might be a Straw Hat. That also might mean Nami and Usopp should get used to cheering Tama on like they did in 1017. If there was an apprentice, the Yonko tamer Tama would make more sense.
A "Pirate Apprentice" that is capable of going one on one with a Yonko. What a world.
Learning to be a pirate=/=learning to fight.
There's only one new person to join in the NW and while it can't really be considered a "pattern," he didn't join in the arc that he first appeared. And Yamato, while important given his connection with Ace and stated desire to leave, is also the character that links the reader to the struggles on the current island just like every other arc. For Wano, it was Tama. For Onigashima, it's Yamato. As for Carrot, she still has setup for more exposition, so it's still too early to write her off. Jinbe also disappeared from the story until WCI (cover stories not included). Yes, he got the invite first, but he still vanished from the story for years. During that time, people speculated that he would die or lose a limb or some other such nonsense.
While not a pattern at all, lets look at Jimbe.
Introduced/seen before time skip, goes on multi arc with Luffy as he aims to save Ace and failed. He acts as a strong supporting character in these arcs. Shows back up two arcs later, gets a good deal of focus and can at least function as an ally in that arc, is gone again but shows back up at WCI as an ally again, gets a whole subplot and this time accepts to join the crew, stays behind to stall enemies and have an official goodbye with former crew. Then shows up well in to Wano before the big conflict with main antagonist.
To me you can not minimize Jimbe getting the invite by saying he disappeared for an entire arc/all of Wano before Onigashima. It doesn't matter at that point. He got the invite and accepted. Was even given an order and promised to meet up with the crew. Wasn't like Oda was going to kill him. Doesn't matter that he didn't show up until Onigashima or what fans speculated about his fate. That was then. He was already a strawhat just without the welcoming party.
Carrot showed up in Zou as a supporting character, became an ally via stowing away during WCI, and as I already said doesn't have any focus or importance to that arc until she plays her role in their escape which several other characters also do. Then in Wano where she has been nearly non-existent with again no relevance to the main plot or any subplots.
If we're going by Jimbe, Carrot should've joined after WCI. To me that was her chance to raise in prominence, get some reveals, character development, etc. It didn't happen. She kinda screams temporary ally given her treatment.
I wouldn't say Yamato is the character that links us to the struggles of Onigashima. There are no struggles on Onigashima the way Tama is a character that links us to the struggles of Wano. Onigashima is about the overall main goal to defeat Kaido, avenge Oden, and bring back prosperity to Wano. The character that links us to all of that is Momo not Yamato.
Yamato has his own entire subplot, a continuing character arc, and personal ties to not just Onigashima/Kaido but Ace, Oden, and Luffy. The whole thing functions like when a new crewmate is about to join (see Sanji, Brook, and Chopper).
So unless you think Carrot is gonna somehow stick around for the next arc and finally get some focus on the caliber of a protagonist or even co-protagonist in an arc like Law or Vivi I don't get trying to compare Carrot to Jimbe. Every time he was in an arc he got a ton of focus. He was never just a background character that could be forgotten or presence wasn't felt. He never faded in to the background. When he was gone he was gone (Wano) just like half of the other strawhats were during WCI.
@Cockycent:
Has it really been 30 chapters? I thought it was less than that. Yamato has spent more time with the locals that he's supposed to be a guardian of than anyone else.
None of this matters.
Robin's also part of the "Didnt bond at all with the crew before joining" club.
And that's a thing because when someone wants to join, said person would only need to interact with Luffy, because he's the one who decides 100% of the time who joins next.
And Yamato has said interactions with Luffy. As for everyone else? Luffy's going to introduce them all to Yamato in the Sunny, don't worry about it.
Robin's also part of the "Didnt bond at all with the crew before joining" club.
And that's a thing because when someone wants to join, said person would only need to interact with Luffy, because he's the one who decides 100% of the time who joins next.
And Yamato has said interactions with Luffy. As for everyone else? Luffy's going to introduce them all to Yamato in the Sunny, don't worry about it.
That's literally how its been for many who were strangers (Brook and Robin) compared to many who joined out of need (Nami, Chopper, and Sanji).
Luffy is going tell them this person can join and they'll all scoff and say aren't you being stupid/hasty. Then they'll grill Yamato for info given he's a yonkou's son.
Main differences I see where it may be like with Jimbe is that eventually most of the strawhats will ses Yamato display his strength and dedication to beating Kaido/freeing Wano. So they're might not even be much grilling and just acceptance that Luffy made a good pick like he did with Jimbe.
Robin is part of the group who were the earliest to interact with the crew. Her first chapter, she's knocking down Sanji and Usopp, Sanji had heart eyes, disarmed Zoro and Nami, even took the Straw Hat, had Nami attacking Luffy over an eternal log pose. Robin makes me question Yamato interacting with Franky back then even more now. Good catch as usual Monquito.
Robin is part of the group who were the earliest to interact with the crew. Her first chapter, she's knocking down Sanji and Usopp, Sanji had heart eyes, disarmed Zoro and Nami, even took the Straw Hat, had Nami attacking Luffy over an eternal log pose. Robin makes me question Yamato interacting with Franky back then even more now. Good catch as usual Monquito.
LOL @ going from didn't bond with the crew to didn't interact with the crew.
It matters even less now.
She still didnt bond with the crew as originally stated(?)
And thrughout Alabasta it only has moments with Luffy, again, the one person that says who joins.
And then, she actually starts meeting her brand new crew in the Merry, just like Yamato would easily do in the Sunny.
Things are going fine really.
Who used the word bond for Yamato?
Vongola.
he also curiously gave a free pass to the non-existent bond between Carrot and Robin.
Who used the word bond for Yamato?
Oh so there's a bonding argument before joining AND an interacting argument before joining.
Both trivial and inconsequential.
She still didnt bond with the crew as originally stated(?)
And thrughout Alabasta it only has moments with Luffy, again, the one person that says who joins.
And then, she actually starts meeting her brand new crew in the Merry, just like Yamato would easily do in the Sunny.
Things are going fine really.
Vongola.
he also curiously gave a free pass to the non-existent bond between Carrot and Robin.
I don't need to give any pass.
Sanji didn't bond with Usopp before joining. Chopper didn't connect with Zoro, Usopp, or Vivi on Drum. Robin had an antagonistic relationship with everyone but Luffy. Franky only really bonded with Usopp and Robin before joining. Brook didn't really spend any time with Usopp or Chopper during Thriller Bark.
I never said someone has to bond with most of the crew or even Luffy. Franky had basically one major positive interaction with Luffy directly before joining.
I commented on the pacing of Yamato's narrative arc relative to interaction with the crew. I never set strict criteria for joining. I said the fact that Yamato's arc progressed to an emotional climax where she declares a desire to join the crew feels a bit strange absent any prior meaningful interactions with the crew. It's not at all definitive of anything. It just makes me wary Yamato will fulfill this declaration because it's such an atypical character arc.
Bond, interactions, relationship - I'm using the words interchangeably.
@Vongola_Boss_XI:
I commented on the pacing of Yamato's narrative arc relative to interaction with the crew. I never set strict criteria for joining. I said the fact that Yamato's arc progressed to an emotional climax where she declares a desire to join the crew feels a bit strange absent any prior meaningful interactions with the crew. It's not at all definitive of anything. It just makes me wary Yamato will fulfill this declaration because it's such an atypical character arc.
Did you forget that Yamato met and befriended Ace, Ace mentioned a few rookies and then went on and on about Luffy to the point he's telling him Luffy's dream, Yamato makes the connection to the pirate king's dream, is almost brought to tears, becomes very attentive to Luffy's journey/incidents and his crew's to the point he wants to join him?
All of that kind of takes out the strangeness especially when you pair it with the fact that Yamato has been caged on Wano for 20 years.
@Zik:
Did you forget that Yamato met and befriended Ace, Ace mentioned a few rookies and then went on and on about Luffy to the point he's telling him Luffy's dream, Yamato makes the connection to the pirate king's dream, is almost brought to tears, becomes very attentive to Luffy's journey/incidents and his crew's to the point he wants to join him?
All of that kind of takes out the strangeness especially when you pair it with the fact that Yamato has been caged on Wano for 20 years.
Honestly, none of those elements really contribute to the reasons I do think Yamato could join. All the Ace stuff is very much a neutral thing to me, largely because that same relationship exists with Tama and herbond to Ace was introduced 75 chapters earlier than Yamato's. Which means Yamato's Ace connection isn't entirely unique even within the Wano arc. Knowing Luffy's dream is not much of an indicator for joining the crew. Sabo also knows Luffy's dream as well and few people, if any, would consider him a prime candidate for the Straw Hat Pirates. As far as we know, this isn't something any of the other current members of the crew know about either, so it's not the best litmus test for future crewmate. I'm not saying any of those things work against Yamato, but they aren't quintessential hallmark signs of a future Straw Hat either. In fact, those traits are shared more commonly with characters who aren't members of the crew. Which, again, doesn't mean they work against Yamato joining, but just don't mean much in isolation.
The way the information was revealed also serves to 'tell' us about a relationship between Yamato and Luffy instead of showing one grow organically. All of those details were revealed through exposition in scenes shared between Yamato and Momo rather than Yamato and Luffy. Oda could have revealed those things, particularly the part about Yamato knowing Luffy's dream in a scene where Luffy and Yamato are together. I think that would have worked a lot better if the goal was to show us there's a strong connection between Luffy and Yamato. Instead, it almost feels like a retcon (I'm not saying it is one; I'm saying the way it's written, it feels like one; Very similar to Sabo's existence feeling like a retcon because of the way his reintroduction was written despite the fact I very much believe Oda planned for Sabo for quite a long time) and doesn't do much to strengthen the connections between Yamato and Luffy because Luffy isn't present for these scenes. Instead, Yamato was growing closer to Momo.
Again, not saying any of those things count against Yamato joining the crew, but to me, it makes them pretty neutral. Ace connection is shared by Tama. Oden reverence is shared by Momo, Kinemon, and the scabbards. Knowing Luffy's dream is shared with Sabo. Being told about Luffy specifically by Ace is shared with Jimbei. It's hard to find new ground, but virtually all of Yamato's character traits thus far are already covered by other characters in the story. If she didn't say she wanted to sail with Luffy, I wouldn't consider her much of a candidate to join at all, being honest.
Now, I do think there's plenty of room to expand Yamato's character. The fact that the horns seem to be a natural part of Yamato and Kaido's anatomy and that Kaido seems to have some deeper understanding of what makes Wano special makes me wonder if there's more to their backstory. I feel like adding some depth to Yamato's heritage and revealing a dream other than 'being like Oden' would go a long way to making her a more unique and interesting character. Not that being unique and interesting is necessarily a qualifier for joining.
The strangeness I'm referring to is more specifically the way Yamato was introduced and written throughout the Onigashima raid. She appears, tells Luffy she's an ally. He breaks her free from her chains. She tells him she knew Ace and demands he take her to sea with him. Luffy doesn't even acknowledge the fact that she mentioned his dead brother Ace and ignores her demand to let her aboard his ship. He entrusts her with protecting Momo, but also forgets her name. And that's it so far. Then, over the next 37 chapters, Yamato bonds with Momo, fights Kaido, and talks about all these special connections that already exist between her and Luffy, revealed entirely through exposition and short flashbacks. Yamato has undoubtedly played a major role in Onigashima, building to a big emotional climax where she declares an intent to sail with Luffy. But the reason it feels strange is because Luffy doesn't really know her yet and the rest of the crew don't even know she exists.
I'm not positing this as a smoking gun argument against Yamato, but to me, it definitely seems a bit off from a storytelling perspective to build to a moment where Yamato tells her father she's going to sail with Luffy without first showing that bond grow organically in some way. Imagine Nami and Luffy briefly met in Orange Town and he helped her out of a bind. And then 40 chapters pass. Nami has never met Zoro, Usopp, or Sanji and Luffy forgot her name. Her story is being told in parallel, entirely detached from what's going on with Luffy and the others. It builds to a big emotional climax where Nami tells Arlong she's going to sail with Luffy. It's strange, from a narrative perspective, for a character to reach this point in their arc before any real connection is established for the readers. It's a very one-sided relationship. That can change, it's just strange Oda didn't save some of these major character beats for later. He didn't need to get Yamato to this point before having her meet the crew. There was at least an opportunity to pass by Sanji. Oda could have also saved Yamato's declaration to Kaido - that she will sail with Luffy - for a scene where the Straw Hats, particularly Luffy, are present. And he could have very easily saved some of the earlier exposition for the next time Luffy and Yamato are fighting side by side.
All I'm saying is that Yamato's arc has advanced quickly, to a point where I feel like some involvement from the Straw Hats would normally be expected. I'm not making this up as an ironclad rule. I'm not saying she needs to be close friends with everyone on the crew either. Or even Luffy specifically since Franky didn' either.
Most interesting is that "must interact with the entire crew within 30 chapters" was never a requisite anyone ever brought up in the last ten years for any other given character. It was never an issue for Hancock or Monet or whoever, it's a new one invented specifically to omit Yamato.
It doesn't even hold up if you actually look at the past characters, you have to do some real swerves and exceptions for that one.
It's not new, it's old as hell and was one of Franky's pros back in the day.
Franky went from Luffy > Usopp > Sanji > Robin > Chopper > Nami > back to Luffy and then the whole crew at post w7.
Brook had a similar route.
Been so long since I reread FI, but at least I remember Jinbe with Nami and Sanji lol.
It's not new, it's old as hell and was one of Franky's pros back in the day.
It's a bonus. It's not a requisite.
Half the crew, including Sanji, CHopper, Robin and Brook joined before really interacting with most of the crew, and Jinbei spent literal years only knowing Luffy..
Heck, even AFTER joining the crew barely interacts with each other nowadays. This most recent fight was probably the first time Robin and Brook have ever really shared screentime. And we went years without Zoro and Sanji sparring.
Either way, its interesting that its a talking point no one has thrown at any past candidate in… ever. Hancock never met the crew. Shirahoshi didn't meet the crew till it was done. Bart only met Luffy before the end. Etc.
And that was never a demanded requirement for any character until now. When there's a strong candidate and doubters are looking for literally ANY reason to deny them.
Including... panel size and having too much screen time that isn't shared.
Brook had a similar route.
Brook agreed to join the crew after two sentences before he met any of them. If he'd had his shadow at the time, that would have been that. Same way Jinbe would have joined on the spot if he didn't have business with Big Mom.
It's a bonus. It's not a requisite.
Half the crew, including Sanji, CHopper, Robin and Brook joined before really interacting with most of the crew, and Jinbei spent literal years only knowing Luffy..
Heck, even AFTER joining the crew barely interacts with each other nowadays. This most recent fight was probably the first time Robin and Brook have ever really shared screentime. And we went years without Zoro and Sanji sparring.
Either way, its interesting that its a talking point no one has thrown at any past candidate in… ever. Hancock never met the crew. Shirahoshi didn't meet the crew till it was done. Bart only met Luffy before the end. Etc.
And that was never a demanded requirement for any character until now. When there's a strong candidate and doubters are looking for literally ANY reason to deny them.
Including... panel size and having too much screen time that isn't shared.
Brook agreed to join the crew after two sentences before he met any of them. If he'd had his shadow at the time, that would have been that. Same way Jinbe would have joined on the spot if he didn't have business with Big Mom.
It's a talking point because Yamato is the only one to reach the point in her character arc where she declares her intent to sail with Luffy before meaningfully interacting with anyone on the crew, including Luffy. Yes, Luffy broke her handcuffs and told her to protect Momo. But from Luffy's perspective, that interaction wasn't much different from his encounter with Drake. So we're 37 chapters in and so far Yamato has only met Franky in passing and shared a single scene with Luffy(important from her perspective, not so much from Luffy's), yet is already at the point in her emotional arc where she's making her big stand against Kaido and declaring a desire to sail with the Straw Hats. That's weird. That's not a normal character joining arc.
As I said, Sanji, Chopper, Robin, and Franky were able to join without interacting meaningfully with the whole crew beforehand. That's not a problem. Jimbei's not a great comparison. Yes, it takes a long time for him to meet the the rest of the crew, but that's because it was otherwise impossible. Jimbei didn't briefly meet Luffy in Impel Down, then detach and have his own separate arc for 40 chapters, declare himself a Straw Hat, and then meet back up.
The Straw Hats arrive on Fishman Island in chapter 608 and Jimbei has already met Robin, Franky, Nami, Sanji, and Chopper by chapter 619. And then Zoro, Brook, and Usopp by 634.
The significant part to me is the fact that Yamato's story has played out entirely independent of the entire crew including Luffy so far. Again, not in the sense that it fails to check some box. As a reader, it just feels unbalanced if the goal is for Yamato to become part of the crew. Oda has never before introduced a future Straw Hat and then just set them loose to go do their own thing immediately afterward. That's the main reason why Yamato's declaration doesn't carry the same weight or have the same emotional punch it would otherwise have if the relationship wasn't one-sided. Yamato essentially has a parasocial relationship with Luffy and the crew, which is a lot more similar to Barto than anyone else in the story. Maybe that's by design and will make more sense later if Yamato ends up joining, but right now, I think it creates uncertainty regarding he trajectory of her arc and whether or not that declaration will ultimately be realized.
None of the previous members first met the crew on a battlefield during a chaotic battle.
That's what sets Yams' introduction to anybody else's. Context is important.
Also the only other person who came up to Luffy and said "oh, there you are, I was looking for you. Can I join?" Was Robin..and look how that played out.
None of the previous members first met the crew on a battlefield during a chaotic battle.
That's what sets Yams' introduction to anybody else's. Context is important.Also the only other person who came up to Luffy and said "oh, there you are, I was looking for you. Can I join?" Was Robin..and look how that played out.
Luffy also accepted Robin's request immediately. He ignored Yamato.
This thread has gone pretty meta lately.
If Yamato's problem is independent of the crew, then Carrot is way independent too. She literally only have revenge against Peros in mind.
If Yamato's problem is independent of the crew, then Carrot is way independent too. She literally only have revenge against Peros in mind.
Not really. Carrot has been surrounded by the Straw Hats from her introductory chapter. And what I mentioned is specifically the fact that Yamato's arc has progressed to what would seem to be a pretty important moment - declaring an intention to sail with Luffy - without first establishing an actual two-way relationship with the crew. Carrot has already developed a relationship with he Straw Hats. It's no about duration of time from introduction to forming an attachment to the crew. It's he fact that Yamato's arc, from the moment she was introduced, has largely run parallel to the Straw Has without much interaction. Carrot went rogue in pursuit of Perospero, but that was only after being alongside the Straw Hats for a long time. She didn't go running off in pursuit of Perospero a couple chapters after she was introduced. Again, not that this is the metric by which a candidate is measured. Just saying it's not an apt comparison.
This thread has gone pretty meta lately.
Imagine Oda thinking as much as the community about the nakamas… he would lose his mind.
I suppose he may be a little suprised to learn that fans spend so much time analyzing why the plain text must be a clever double ruse that is betrayed in the most minute background details.
@Vongola_Boss_XI:
Not really. Carrot has been surrounded by the Straw Hats from her introductory chapter. And what I mentioned is specifically the fact that Yamato's arc has progressed to what would seem to be a pretty important moment - declaring an intention to sail with Luffy - without first establishing an actual two-way relationship with the crew. Carrot has already developed a relationship with he Straw Hats. It's no about duration of time from introduction to forming an attachment to the crew. It's he fact that Yamato's arc, from the moment she was introduced, has largely run parallel to the Straw Has without much interaction. Carrot went rogue in pursuit of Perospero, but that was only after being alongside the Straw Hats for a long time. She didn't go running off in pursuit of Perospero a couple chapters after she was introduced. Again, not that this is the metric by which a candidate is measured. Just saying it's not an apt comparison.
Yamato will interact with Luffy and the SH more when the chaos stabilizes. Right now, it's impossible to have interactions when most SHs are stuck in their own isolated arenas fighting the enemy and tons of secondary characters to get through.
In any case, it's a fact Yamato will continue being relevant until the arc is over, so naturally, he will have more potential opportunity than the likes of Carrot or Tama, who are either finished in their role or incapacitated.
Wait, are we not assuming that Yamato will get fodderized very soon / the moment Luffy re-enters the battle? I mean it's already crazy that he's fighting Kaido equally, alone, for like an hour or what.
That's the point where his role would end in the war, at least I don't expect him to go back to the main stage. Or what's the idea here?
@Vongola_Boss_XI:
It's a talking point because Yamato is the only one to reach the point in her character arc where she declares her intent to sail with Luffy before meaningfully interacting with anyone on the crew, including Luffy. Yes, Luffy broke her handcuffs and told her to protect Momo. But from Luffy's perspective, that interaction wasn't much different from his encounter with Drake. So we're 37 chapters in and so far Yamato has only met Franky in passing and shared a single scene with Luffy(important from her perspective, not so much from Luffy's), yet is already at the point in her emotional arc where she's making her big stand against Kaido and declaring a desire to sail with the Straw Hats. That's weird. That's not a normal character joining arc.
As I said, Sanji, Chopper, Robin, and Franky were able to join without interacting meaningfully with the whole crew beforehand. That's not a problem. Jimbei's not a great comparison. Yes, it takes a long time for him to meet the the rest of the crew, but that's because it was otherwise impossible. Jimbei didn't briefly meet Luffy in Impel Down, then detach and have his own separate arc for 40 chapters, declare himself a Straw Hat, and then meet back up.
The Straw Hats arrive on Fishman Island in chapter 608 and Jimbei has already met Robin, Franky, Nami, Sanji, and Chopper by chapter 619. And then Zoro, Brook, and Usopp by 634.
The significant part to me is the fact that Yamato's story has played out entirely independent of the entire crew including Luffy so far. Again, not in the sense that it fails to check some box. As a reader, it just feels unbalanced if the goal is for Yamato to become part of the crew. Oda has never before introduced a future Straw Hat and then just set them loose to go do their own thing immediately afterward. That's the main reason why Yamato's declaration doesn't carry the same weight or have the same emotional punch it would otherwise have if the relationship wasn't one-sided. Yamato essentially has a parasocial relationship with Luffy and the crew, which is a lot more similar to Barto than anyone else in the story. Maybe that's by design and will make more sense later if Yamato ends up joining, but right now, I think it creates uncertainty regarding he trajectory of her arc and whether or not that declaration will ultimately be realized.
It doesn't help that Yamato has been pretty much a glorified plot device. He has been in the story a lot, but his role was to give exposition initially, then to hold off Kaido. His "fight" with dad so far has been a big letdown, as it has happened mostly off-screen, and even his DF was revealed in an intermission between more important stuff. There's still the possibility of it being showed more, but giving how it's evolving (off-screen), I wouldn't be surprised if the next time we see them, Yamato has already been defeated.
I was giving that fight the chance of being the moment that makes Yamato more of a character and less of a plot device with the role of tying plot threads together. At this point, I was hoping we'd have seen hints of a flashback already (talks that hint of a specific moment or character that holds importance for Yamato's relationship with Kaido), but all we got was reaffirmation of things we already knew.
It feels that "going with Luffy" was something added so readers got interested and hopeful about Yamato, so every appearance of his makes people excited, he'd be a pretty bland character otherwise.
I dunno, to me, Yamato is checking a lot of "not going to be crewmate in the end" boxes.
(Heh, and about the panel talk, I just checked the panels when Robin and Brook asked/were asked to join the crew. The results are interesting: Robin's panel is not big, but was the chapter cliffhanger, and it was framed in the way that made it the center pÃece of its page, as if to draw everyone's eyes to it. Brook got a full double-page spread and it was also the cliffhanger of its chapter.)
Wait, are we not assuming that Yamato will get fodderized very soon / the moment Luffy re-enters the battle? I mean it's already crazy that he's fighting Kaido equally, alone, for like an hour or what.
That's the point where his role would end in the war, at least I don't expect him to go back into the main stage. Or what's the idea here?
It's probably more like 10-15 minutes in-universe tho. The passing of time in OP has always been pretty wonky. But nah since the Z man didn't even stay down after breaking all his bones i'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that no strawhat will be done for before the final bell rings
@Vongola_Boss_XI:
Luffy also accepted Robin's request immediately. He ignored Yamato.
You didn't really read what I wrote, did you.
Yamato will interact with Luffy and the SH more when the chaos stabilizes. Right now, it's impossible to have interactions when most SHs are stuck in their own isolated arenas fighting the enemy and tons of secondary characters to get through.
In any case, it's a fact Yamato will continue being relevant until the arc is over, so naturally, he will have more potential opportunity than the likes of Carrot or Tama, who are either finished in their role or incapacitated.
Tama’s role is neither finished or incapacitated, as long as she running around with the SHs she will do something, only good stuff are left.
You didn't really read what I wrote, did you.
I did. That was the part I felt like responding to.
Tama’s role is neither finished or incapacitated, as long as she running around with the SHs she will do something, only good stuff are left.
She already stated she finished her role. Now she's just a person to be protected.
She already stated she finished her role. Now she's just a person to be protected.
But was it in a double-spread?
@Vongola_Boss_XI:
I did. That was the part I felt like responding to.
Exactly. While conveniently ignoring the main point about context being the crucial element.
Robin didn't ask in the middle of the big climatic battle. She asked in the quiet aftermath of the saga, whene there was no urgent matter whatsoever occupying Luffy's mind.
When Yamato asked, Luffy was in the middle of rushing Kaido. He ignored his request bacause it came out of the blue from a complete stranger who he then proceeded to befriend and whose chains he literally broke. Then I may be mistaken but the join the crew argument never came up again.
I'll ask the same question I asked some weeks ago, hoping the answer won't be again "what about carrot then lol" (it wasn't you) like last time:
What will happen at the end of the battle, in order for Yamato not joining?
Will he have changed his mind? If so why?
Will Luffy refuse him? If so, why?
I guess the thread is a groundhog day scenario where people get their arguments smacked to bits, hide and then resurface again, thinking that this time around somehow something would have changed by then
Exactly. While conveniently ignoring the main point about context being the crucial element.
Robin didn't ask in the middle of the big climatic battle. She asked in the quiet aftermath of the saga, whene there was no urgent matter whatsoever occupying Luffy's mind.
When Yamato asked, Luffy was in the middle of rushing Kaido. He ignored his request bacause it came out of the blue from a complete stranger who he then proceeded to befriend and whose chains he literally broke. Then I may be mistaken but the join the crew argument never came up again.
I'll ask the same question I asked some weeks ago, hoping the answer won't be again "what about carrot then lol" (it wasn't you) like last time:What will happen at the end of the battle, in order for Yamato not joining?
Will he have changed his mind? If so why?
Will Luffy refuse him? If so, why?
I didn't respond to that part because I don't really agree with that line of reasoning. As I have said before, I think Yamato's decision is ultimately going to depend on the state of Wano with its newly opened borders. I don't think that's something we can properly assess until we know why Wano's borders need to open for the 'return of Joyboy' and what makes Wano so special.
Yamato has made clear that she:
If Wano and Momo are fine without her, she would be able to sail with Luffy assuming he accepts her request to sail with him. I am not certain that will be the case. I'm not saying Wano will still be in a dire situation, but there may be an ongoing situation which requires attention from the people who carry Oden's will, including Yamato.
Something worth mentioning is the fact that Yamato hasn't technically said anything about joining Luffy's crew. She asked to sail with him. Of course the implication is joining the Straw Hats, but it's never outright stated.
As for Carrot, her arc is incomplete and I believe understanding and fulfilling Pedro's dying words can only be accomplished by sailing with the Straw Hats. She simply isn't receiving focus right now. That doesn't mean Oda is done with her character forever.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
It doesn't help that Yamato has been pretty much a glorified plot device. He has been in the story a lot, but his role was to give exposition initially, then to hold off Kaido. His "fight" with dad so far has been a big letdown, as it has happened mostly off-screen, and even his DF was revealed in an intermission between more important stuff. There's still the possibility of it being showed more, but giving how it's evolving (off-screen), I wouldn't be surprised if the next time we see them, Yamato has already been defeated.
I was giving that fight the chance of being the moment that makes Yamato more of a character and less of a plot device with the role of tying plot threads together. At this point, I was hoping we'd have seen hints of a flashback already (talks that hint of a specific moment or character that holds importance for Yamato's relationship with Kaido), but all we got was reaffirmation of things we already knew.
It feels that "going with Luffy" was something added so readers got interested and hopeful about Yamato, so every appearance of his makes people excited, he'd be a pretty bland character otherwise.
I dunno, to me, Yamato is checking a lot of "not going to be crewmate in the end" boxes.
(Heh, and about the panel talk, I just checked the panels when Robin and Brook asked/were asked to join the crew. The results are interesting: Robin's panel is not big, but was the chapter cliffhanger, and it was framed in the way that made it the center pÃece of its page, as if to draw everyone's eyes to it. Brook got a full double-page spread and it was also the cliffhanger of its chapter.)
You make another good point here. And I know you don't think Carrot is going to join, but I think when you compare the emphasis placed on Carrot's first Sulong transformation to the reveal of Yamato's Devil Fruit, the difference is pretty clear. Carrot's transformation was the central focus of a chapter, was emphasized in the panel layout, and happened at a narratively significant moment in full view of the Straw Hat Pirates. Yamato transformed off-panel in a fight against Kaido with no one else around.
@Vongola_Boss_XI:
Honestly, none of those elements really contribute to the reasons I do think Yamato could join.
We're not talking about why Yamato could join though but you thinking it's strange that Yamato would express that he wants to join the crew when he hasn't all of the strawhats despite the already established connections Oda has created between Yamato and Ace, Luffy, etc.
The reason it sn't strange is cuz Oda went out of his way to make that Ace and Yamato flashback a part of why Yamato already knows about Luffy and has been keeping up with his progress as a pirate.
Wait, are we not assuming that Yamato will get fodderized very soon / the moment Luffy re-enters the battle? I mean it's already crazy that he's fighting Kaido equally, alone, for like an hour or what.
That's the point where his role would end in the war, at least I don't expect him to go back to the main stage. Or what's the idea here?
Momotaro shenanigans dictate that the monkey dog and pheasant all help, so we're largely expecting Yamato and Marco to help Luffy out for a bit at least so we can get a certified trio..
And MOMOsuke + LuffyTARO combo finisher in some fashion, maybe a sky battle.
@Zik:
While not a pattern at all, lets look at Jimbe.
Introduced/seen before time skip, goes on multi arc with Luffy as he aims to save Ace and failed. He acts as a strong supporting character in these arcs. Shows back up two arcs later, gets a good deal of focus and can at least function as an ally in that arc, is gone again but shows back up at WCI as an ally again, gets a whole subplot and this time accepts to join the crew, stays behind to stall enemies and have an official goodbye with former crew. Then shows up well in to Wano before the big conflict with main antagonist.
To me you can not minimize Jimbe getting the invite by saying he disappeared for an entire arc/all of Wano before Onigashima. It doesn't matter at that point. He got the invite and accepted. Was even given an order and promised to meet up with the crew. Wasn't like Oda was going to kill him. Doesn't matter that he didn't show up until Onigashima or what fans speculated about his fate. That was then. He was already a strawhat just without the welcoming party.
The point with Jinbe was that he didn't join in the arc that he was introduced. People talking about how Carrot hasn't done anything this arc need to remember that this is the first arc that she hasn't been directly involved in as a major player. Her being in the background alone shouldn't diminish her chances.
Carrot showed up in Zou as a supporting character, became an ally via stowing away during WCI, and as I already said doesn't have any focus or importance to that arc until she plays her role in their escape which several other characters also do. Then in Wano where she has been nearly non-existent with again no relevance to the main plot or any subplots.
If we're going by Jimbe, Carrot should've joined after WCI. To me that was her chance to raise in prominence, get some reveals, character development, etc. It didn't happen. She kinda screams temporary ally given her treatment.
Carrot was introduced as a supporting character on Zou, yes, but she became the link between the minks and the SHs. As other have said, there is a belief amongst the minks (Pedro and Neko specifically) that the SHs will bring about the dawn their people have been waiting for for years. Carrot doesn't know that history. Now that Pedro is dead, people should wait for her to talk to Neko, since Pedro was his top supporting character. If Neko goes straight for Pero, then there's still the conversation between him and Carrot that needs to happen.
I wouldn't say Yamato is the character that links us to the struggles of Onigashima. There are no struggles on Onigashima the way Tama is a character that links us to the struggles of Wano. Onigashima is about the overall main goal to defeat Kaido, avenge Oden, and bring back prosperity to Wano. The character that links us to all of that is Momo not Yamato.
Yamato has his own entire subplot, a continuing character arc, and personal ties to not just Onigashima/Kaido but Ace, Oden, and Luffy. The whole thing functions like when a new crewmate is about to join (see Sanji, Brook, and Chopper).
He kinda is. Yamato has been used to tie Ace and Oden's journal to the current story. He also has his own personal hell by being locked up and beaten by his father despite his desire to be free. That sounds like a struggle to me. I still have a number of issues with Yamato, but I understand why people would think he has NN written all over him. He feels like a character that an editor came up with to tie things together and get people more engaged given his design, overlap with Ace (even after Tama), his sudden mention and appearance (despite years of missed opportunities to mention him),etc., but that's another topic.
So unless you think Carrot is gonna somehow stick around for the next arc and finally get some focus on the caliber of a protagonist or even co-protagonist in an arc like Law or Vivi I don't get trying to compare Carrot to Jimbe. Every time he was in an arc he got a ton of focus. He was never just a background character that could be forgotten or presence wasn't felt. He never faded in to the background. When he was gone he was gone (Wano) just like half of the other strawhats were during WCI.
I think I'll wait for her conversation with Neko to determine where she goes from here. I do know that her actually taking Pedro's killer's advice about going back home where it's safe would undermine the entire character, especially if Pedro's last words were to mean anything.
Carrot was never going to join during Whole Cake Island when half the crew is missing and the other half retreat in defeat. Not to mention Jimbei's joining hadn't been completely finalized and he's 'The Ninth'. It wouldn't have worked at all to solidify Carrot's position on the crew with a celebration between WCI and Wano.
@Vongola_Boss_XI:
Luffy also accepted Robin's request immediately. He ignored Yamato.
Wow, yeah he did… immediately... by the end of the arc... after he saved her...
He did ignore Yamato's request... during their first encounter... in a chaotic situation... with more important things on his mind...
I wonder how Jinbe ended up joining... after all, Luffy didn't ask him during Impel Down, nor during Marineford, nor during the fight against the New Fish-Man Pirates... but only after everything was settled, and the situation has calmed down...
hmm... weird...
@Vongola_Boss_XI:
because it's such an atypical character arc.
But the thing is that, it isn't, and you've noticed is not, you're literally elaborating on how normal of a thing it actually is.
Carrot not interacting with Robin for 216 chapters, and as long as I can recall, not having a conversation with Franky either, THAT is actually an atypical thing to happen, and you show nothing but patience about it, for almost six years!
At 37 chapters… 37!, Yamato's not even been around a quarter of what Carrot has. How about showing that same patience with this one too?
--- Update From New Post Merge ---
(Heh, and about the panel talk, I just checked the panels when Robin and Brook asked/were asked to join the crew. The results are interesting: Robin's panel is not big, but was the chapter cliffhanger, and it was framed in the way that made it the center pÃece of its page, as if to draw everyone's eyes to it. Brook got a full double-page spread and it was also the cliffhanger of its chapter.)
Kaido's been made conscious of Yamato's intentions, he is absolutely going to question Luffy about it, so perhaps, that's the one big-big moment that will give you that over sized panel you're waiting for, when Luffy finally answers to Yamato's request in front of the villain's saga.
It would make sense that no other panel could be bigger, because all others were just building up to that moment.
Wow, yeah he did… immediately... by the end of the arc... after he saved her...
He did ignore Yamato's request... during their first encounter... in a chaotic situation... with more important things on his mind...I wonder how Jinbe ended up joining... after all, Luffy didn't ask him during Impel Down, nor during Marineford, nor during the fight against the New Fish-Man Pirates... but only after everything was settled, and the situation has calmed down...
hmm... weird...
I already believed Jimbei was going to join the Straw Hats before Impel Down ended.
I didn't bring up the Robin comparison. I was responding to someone else. And my point is, they're not 1:1. Just because things happened one way for Robin doesn't mean they will follow the same pattern for Yamato.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
But the thing is that, it isn't, and you've noticed is not, you're literally elaborating on how normal of a thing it actually is.
Carrot not interacting with Robin for 216 chapters, and as long as I can recall, not having a conversation with Franky either, THAT is actually an atypical thing to happen, and you show nothing but patience about it, for almost six years!
At 37 chapters… 37!, Yamato's not even been around a quarter of what Carrot has. How about showing that same patience with this one too?
--- Update From New Post Merge ---
Kaido's been made conscious of Yamato's intentions, he is absolutely going to question Luffy about it, so perhaps, that's the one big-big moment that will give you that over sized panel you're waiting for, when Luffy finally answers to Yamato's request in front of the villain's saga.
It would make sense that no other panel could be bigger, because all others were just building up to that moment.
You're not reading my posts correctly. It's not about the number of chapters or the amount of time. I said it's unusual for Yamato's arc to have progressed to a point where she has declared a desire to sail with Luffy before actually having any meaningful interactions with the Straw Hats beyond a single scene with Luffy. And that's the entire extent of my point. I said it's not the usual progression for really any ally in One Piece. Yamato was introduced, met Luffy, then went off and has her own story playing out without any real involvement from the crew. And that arc has built to the big emotional confrontation with Kaido before meeting anyone. I already acknowledged that things can change and it doesn't mean Yamato can't join. It's just a very atypical character arc.
Carrot hasn't been in the same location as Robin and Franky for any significant stretch of time since Zou. Same standard as Jimbei. The other Straw Hats were simply not present when Luffy met him in Impel Down. Carrot did react to Robin's macabre premonition aboard Sunny on route to Onigashima and Franky commented on her jumping ability when they first met. But yes, it's true she hasn't meaningfully interacted with them yet.
The point with Jinbe was that he didn't join in the arc that he was introduced. People talking about how Carrot hasn't done anything this arc need to remember that this is the first arc that she hasn't been directly involved in as a major player. Her being in the background alone shouldn't diminish her chances.
Carrot was introduced as a supporting character on Zou, yes, but she became the link between the minks and the SHs. As other have said, there is a belief amongst the minks (Pedro and Neko specifically) that the SHs will bring about the dawn their people have been waiting for for years. Carrot doesn't know that history. Now that Pedro is dead, people should wait for her to talk to Neko, since Pedro was his top supporting character. If Neko goes straight for Pero, then there's still the conversation between him and Carrot that needs to happen.
He kinda is. Yamato has been used to tie Ace and Oden's journal to the current story. He also has his own personal hell by being locked up and beaten by his father despite his desire to be free. That sounds like a struggle to me. I still have a number of issues with Yamato, but I understand why people would think he has NN written all over him. He feels like a character that an editor came up with to tie things together and get people more engaged given his design, overlap with Ace (even after Tama), his sudden mention and appearance (despite years of missed opportunities to mention him),etc., but that's another topic.
I think I'll wait for her conversation with Neko to determine where she goes from here. I do know that her actually taking Pedro's killer's advice about going back home where it's safe would undermine the entire character, especially if Pedro's last words were to mean anything.
Many people here have repeatedly mentioned that Oda had, i dunno, 100 chapters to really flesh out whatever Carrot's motivations/relationship with the SHs/any, literally any selling point at all. If Oda has not shown Carrot contemplating even once about "the dawn or whatever the hell it is" all this while then i'm going to take the hint that he either forgot or didn't bother to follow up on it at all, much less make it a compelling reason to make her join. Like Wiper/Paulie/Hancock. If he's charitable maybe he'll do some kind of inspired carrot deal where she'll organize her own crew or something.
But at this point you're just going to dodge the hard question, aren't you?
@Vongola_Boss_XI:
I didn't respond to that part because I don't really agree with that line of reasoning. As I have said before, I think Yamato's decision is ultimately going to depend on the state of Wano with its newly opened borders. I don't think that's something we can properly assess until we know why Wano's borders need to open for the 'return of Joyboy' and what makes Wano so special.
Yamato has made clear that she:
- Wants to sail with Luffy
- Prioritizes the land of Wano above personal desire
If Wano and Momo are fine without her, she would be able to sail with Luffy assuming he accepts her request to sail with him. I am not certain that will be the case. I'm not saying Wano will still be in a dire situation, but there may be an ongoing situation which requires attention from the people who carry Oden's will, including Yamato.
Something worth mentioning is the fact that Yamato hasn't technically said anything about joining Luffy's crew. She asked to sail with him. Of course the implication is joining the Straw Hats, but it's never outright stated.
As for Carrot, her arc is incomplete and I believe understanding and fulfilling Pedro's dying words can only be accomplished by sailing with the Straw Hats. She simply isn't receiving focus right now. That doesn't mean Oda is done with her character forever.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
You make another good point here. And I know you don't think Carrot is going to join, but I think when you compare the emphasis placed on Carrot's first Sulong transformation to the reveal of Yamato's Devil Fruit, the difference is pretty clear. Carrot's transformation was the central focus of a chapter, was emphasized in the panel layout, and happened at a narratively significant moment in full view of the Straw Hat Pirates. Yamato transformed off-panel in a fight against Kaido with no one else around.
Robby literally pointed out that Yamato's words to fight for Wano/Momo has always came with the context that he'll leave after that. They do not contradict each other at all.
It's also pretty cute that you tried to argue Yamato will sacrifice their wants for Wano (no they haven't, how did you come to the statement) when he has consistently mentioned he's leaving. Many times, even after meeting Momo.
Also i'm not going to retype it, but my response to Bob can be copy-pasted for your "fulfilling Pedro's dream". And yes, not getting attention when her candidacy is at a big unknown is a very bad thing because Oda is not selling her as a MC to us.
And in the end, you chose to pick up Deicide's pet panel size argument. Especially when people have repeatedly pointed out that it was a mink-specific thing to tease what they can do + can only be done once a month.
Compare that to yamato's fruit which received flavor backstory (he ate it cause he was hungry, Kaido struggled to get it), is still being shown consistently, and has not had its full breadth of abilities explained or shown yet. Doesn't that not strike you as something that Oda wants to show out bit by bit? Especially when he could have just listed down everything immediately the fruit could do, similar to carrot.
@Vongola_Boss_XI:
Carrot was never going to join during Whole Cake Island when half the crew is missing and the other half retreat in defeat. Not to mention Jimbei's joining hadn't been completely finalized and he's 'The Ninth'. It wouldn't have worked at all to solidify Carrot's position on the crew with a celebration between WCI and Wano.
That's a good way to completely ignore the issue at hand, that Oda hasn't used her once during the entire Wano saga. If WCI was sufficient to sell us on her recruitment as you so implied (no it wasn't), then why didn't he continue to build up on her characterization/motivation?
I guess Wano and then Onigashima were crowded arcs, he probably didn't have any space to introduce potential newcomers…..oh wait yamato exists. Consistently. Since Onigashima started.
@Vongola_Boss_XI:
And my point is, they're not 1:1. Just because things happened one way for Robin doesn't mean they will follow the same pattern for Yamato.
Oh, so you agree that Yamato still has a chance even though Luffy ignored her request during their short meeting, but probably will accept it by the end of Wano, when everything is settled…
Ok, and I thought you were saying Yamato has a lesser chance because Luffy ignored her request, but immediately accepted Robins... sorry my bad, got it wrong...
@Vongola_Boss_XI:
You're not reading my posts correctly. It's not about the number of chapters or the amount of time. I said it's unusual for Yamato's arc to have progressed to a point where she has declared a desire to sail with Luffy before actually having any meaningful interactions with the Straw Hats beyond a single scene with Luffy. And that's the entire extent of my point. I said it's not the usual progression for really any ally in One Piece. Yamato was introduced, met Luffy, then went off and has her own story playing out without any real involvement from the crew. And that arc has built to the big emotional confrontation with Kaido before meeting anyone. I already acknowledged that things can change and it doesn't mean Yamato can't join. It's just a very atypical character arc.
You're just going it circles, there isn't a rule saying she has to, Luffy is the one who always matters and yes, she's made said interactions already.
If Yamato's most important interest is to join the SH's, going straight to speak with the man in charge is exactly what's going to make him achieve said goal.
Carrot hasn't been in the same location as Robin and Franky for any significant stretch of time since Zou.
They all were in Wano for weeks, that's just the author not interested in doing it.
Yamato… TBD, but so far he has made ardent statements concerning Shinobu's words from 20 or so years ago and Momo priority before any Straw Hat interactions
Brook had already joined the crew before that happened.
@Vongola_Boss_XI:
Carrot was never going to join during Whole Cake Island when half the crew is missing and the other half retreat in defeat. Not to mention Jimbei's joining hadn't been completely finalized and he's 'The Ninth'. It wouldn't have worked at all to solidify Carrot's position on the crew with a celebration between WCI and Wano.
I have a very strong feeling that Act 4 will solve several plot threads started in WCI. That’s when Carrot’s arc will be resolved. Carrot’s case will become much clearer then.
Brook joined 1 page after his defeat to Nami and Sanji's interrogation
Yamato has stuffed Momo in his shirt and poured his heart out to Shinobu