I’ve got it! What about a character who’s from a new race we’ve never heard of that also has a logia that also happens to fit the 2.9 devil fruit theory, Huh how’s that :ninja:
You forgot Nami face, ability overlap and tap dancing for Luffy
I’ve got it! What about a character who’s from a new race we’ve never heard of that also has a logia that also happens to fit the 2.9 devil fruit theory, Huh how’s that :ninja:
You forgot Nami face, ability overlap and tap dancing for Luffy
Pedro had the same desire to sail with the future pirate King, and he did, just not as an official "crewmate". This just goes back to the point that since TS (or even back since Vivi) the ally/nakama thing has become so fluid that a character can literally sail with Luffy for 300+ chapters without being a formal "Strawhat crewmember"
It didn't make sense for the story for Vivi to join since she was considerably dedicated to her kingdom and country. That was her driving force, and I don't think there was ever a driving force for Pedro to the point that it would make sense for the story for him to join, with him emphasizing that he valued the dawn of the world to the point that he'd be willing to give up his life for it.
!
Yamato is declaring that against a 9 year long saga main villain, whose one of the most relevant characters in the series ever.
I also noticed that your magical prediction powers just seemingly malfunction and you're somewhat not able to predict the logical follow up on that scene of making Kaido conscious of Yamato's intentions, its inevitable going to end up in Kaido confronting Luffy about it.
For which case, Oda has consistently made the fight between Luffy and Kaido even more personal now, giving it a lot of; Luffy vs Arlong fighting for Nami Vibes, its not only Wano, the Samurai, their Crews, Poneglyphs and treasures, the Winner gets Yamato now too.
More than a perfect moment for Luffy to answer Yamato's petition to join the crew if you ask me.
I think Yamato only really has a chance of joining if she drops the Oden thing because Luffy doesn't need that. If it is not dropped then the best outcome would be for her to become the shogun of Wano until Momo is ready for that.
How long do you guys think till we get the Yamato/Kaido back story?
EDIT: I mean Flash Back
How long do you guys think till we get the Yamato/Kaido back story?
EDIT: I mean Flash Back
After all the generals are beaten and Luffy arrives back on the scene. Oda's not going to break the overall story momentum for a flashback, but he will take a break before the big finale to re-contextualize the stakes.
So another chapter or two for the flying six, and then a few chapters for King and Queen ( 2 chapters each? Zoro still has to meet King and let Marco go to the roof to finish the momotaro group, so that's a bit of musical chairs that will take probably a chapter by itself) so that's probably another five or six chapters right there.
Then also have to deal with Big Mom and Peros and Jack and all that. There's a lot of smaller battles that need to be handled still as well, but they're minor and sort of off-camera anyway so those don't HAVE to be resolved before break. Not to mention Kaidou launching the inevitable "okay you beat my guys but now the REAL threat begins!" that puts things on a timer, of the island about to fall or whatever.
From where were are right now and what's currently being juggled, 1030 seems about the earlier to reasonably wrap up the smaller stuff to take a short flashback break, but there's so many subplots its hard to tell. Depends on if they all get wrapped before the showdown or if the smaller fights just end because they ll lose their will to fight when Kaidou goes down (as an opposite of when Luffy's group believed in him and didn't give up.)
The flying six were introduced in 978 and the raid started then, and yamato made his full appearance in 983/984, so that'll have been about a solid year and 50 chapters of constant battle… a good time for a break.
Yamato is declaring that against a 9 year long saga main villain, whose one of the most relevant characters in the series ever.
I also noticed that your magical prediction powers just seemingly malfunction and you're somewhat not able to predict the logical follow up on that scene of making Kaido conscious of Yamato's intentions, its inevitable going to end up in Kaido confronting Luffy about it.
For which case, Oda has consistently made the fight between Luffy and Kaido even more personal now, giving it a lot of; Luffy vs Arlong fighting for Nami Vibes, its not only Wano, the Samurai, their Crews, Poneglyphs and treasures, the Winner gets Yamato now too.
More than a perfect moment for Luffy to answer Yamato's petition to join the crew if you ask me.
It reminded me of when Luffy got his ass kicked by Crocodile and Robin helped him up, and now we have Yamato helping Luffy out by holding Kaido off from hurting anyone else before Luffy gets back.
After all the generals are beaten and Luffy arrives back on the scene. Oda's not going to break the overall story momentum for a flashback, but he will take a break before the big finale to re-contextualize the stakes.
So another chapter or two for the flying six, and then a few chapters for King and Queen ( 2 chapters each? Zoro still has to meet King and let Marco go to the roof to finish the momotaro group, so that's a bit of musical chairs that will take probably a chapter by itself) so that's probably another five or six chapters right there.
Then also have to deal with Big Mom and Peros and Jack and all that. There's a lot of smaller battles that need to be handled still as well, but they're minor and sort of off-camera anyway so those don't HAVE to be resolved before break. Not to mention Kaidou launching the inevitable "okay you beat my guys but now the REAL threat begins!" that puts things on a timer, of the island about to fall or whatever.
From where were are right now and what's currently being juggled, 1030 seems about the earlier to reasonably wrap up the smaller stuff to take a short flashback break, but there's so many subplots its hard to tell. Depends on if they all get wrapped before the showdown or if the smaller fights just end because they ll lose their will to fight when Kaidou goes down (as an opposite of when Luffy's group believed in him and didn't give up.)
The fact that the battles are ending so soon really ticks me off, I know Oda can't do the whole "Everybody gets a 2-3 chapter fight every arc" because there's ten straw hats along with allies and the story would never be finish in time…. BUT most of the straw hats haven't had a real one v one fight the way they used to for years…. AND we've been building to this show down with a Yonko and his crew for literally 10 years, the next time we'll have an opportunity to see the entire crew fight will proabaly be the final showdown with the Black Beard Pirates
it really aggravates me
I think the fans care a lot more about characters getting fights than Oda does.
Otherwise Robin would have had something between Skypeia and now.
We'll get big ones for the grand finale probably, and that's fine. A solid year of 1 on 1 fights sucks anyway, I was there for Enies Lobby and the crew was smaller then!
I’ve got it! What about a character who’s from a new race we’ve never heard of that also has a logia that also happens to fit the 2.9 devil fruit theory, Huh how’s that :ninja:
Also a pretty gurl
With unique weapon
And pretty strong for Blackbeard showdown
I think Yamato only really has a chance of joining if she drops the Oden thing because Luffy doesn't need that. If it is not dropped then the best outcome would be for her to become the shogun of Wano until Momo is ready for that.
So what happens to your train of thought if Yamato doesn't drop it and does join?
Pedro had the same desire to sail with the future pirate King, and he did, just not as an official "crewmate". This just goes back to the point that since TS (or even back since Vivi) the ally/nakama thing has become so fluid that a character can literally sail with Luffy for 300+ chapters without being a formal "Strawhat crewmember"
Except he never actually wanted to join Luffy's crew. I don't remember him ever actually wanting to be a full-time member. With Yamato, the Oden thing for me is hinting how Oden sailed out at the seas vs. how Yamato wants to sail for the seas. It matches up and to me is the biggest hint she actually will join the crew.
I mean sure, but we had people travel with the Strawhats all the way with Yosaku and Johnny… but it doesn't mean they be crewmembers. From what I'm getting Yamato actually wants to sail the seas and be part of Luffy's crew. Pedro never actually stated that from my knowledge.
The different race pattern sounds like logia requirement, special design, 8.9 theory and tap dance/show and tell for Luffy to me. Yamato looks like a normal human being to me and he might join. I know some thought Kaido was a different race, but that doesn't seem to be the case.
What is the 8.9 theory?
What is the 8.9 theory?
Ngl, i've only skimmed it a couple times. Number pairings representing Straw Hat DF names and there's only 1 pair left. You should ask someone more informed on the theory
No such thing as 8.9 theory.
Only the 2.9 theory.
Continuing the visual emphasis analysis.
Before, I compared specific moments: Yamato declaring he wants to have adventures and be as free as Oden, with Yamato declaring his intention to go with Luffy. We saw how small and visually uninteresting the later ones were.
Now, I tried something different, I decided to seek Yamato's most visual striking moments and see what he's declaring in those. Here's the result:
!
! "My other name is Yamato, and I would die for you! (Momonosuke)"
!
! "If I don't fight for this country, I can't call myself Kozuki Oden!"
Now, wow, what a difference those do!
Both are multi-panel whole-page chapter-ending moments.
Both can be said to be Yamato's defining moments.
Both show Yamato big and glorious, one of them revealing his true power.
And both are about protecting Wano and Momonosuke.
Take from that what you will…
And both are about protecting Wano and Momonosuke.
After all is said and done, Wano will be free, Momo will be safe and Yamato will be gone…
Those panels show her resolution for the time being, after all that is done there is nothing holding her there...
Name one reason why she should stay in Wano after Wano is freed and Momo saved?
Why would she forsake her wish to leave? Why shouldn't Luffy take her with him after he saw what she did for him and his friends...
ONE reason, something plausible and not like "look at those panels, they're big..."
ONE reason, something plausible and not like "look at those panels, they're big…"
You are right. We should totally ignore visual language in a visual media. The little panels and big panels aren’t laid out for artistic reasons nor planned to convey importance by subtle means. Removing the panels altogether abd leaving only words and quick descriptions would convey the exact same emotions. I’m a fool to even consider otherwise.
I should also disregard the entire symbolism of a character named after Japan and its link to a fictional country based on Japan, as well as the huge emphasis gotten by the panels in which such character declares his duty of safeguarding the nation and its future leader.
I’m clearly too dumb for considering such outrageous thoughts…
What Deicide underscores is that Oda has shown us a bond between Yamato and Momo. He has only told us about a bond between Yamato and Luffy. 'Show, don't tell' is one of the biggest rules in storytelling.
Yeah those panels about momo remind me of the bond shown in panels between carrot and the straw hats.
You are right. We should totally ignore visual language in a visual media. The little panels and big panels aren’t laid out for artistic reasons nor planned to convey importance by subtle means. Removing the panels altogether abd leaving only words and quick descriptions would convey the exact same emotions. I’m a fool to even consider otherwise.
I should also disregard the entire symbolism of a character named after Japan and its link to a fictional country based on Japan, as well as the huge emphasis gotten by the panels in which such character declares his duty of safeguarding the nation and its future leader.
I’m clearly too dumb for considering such outrageous thoughts…
Safeguarding against whom? You know where the Story is leading…
There is no necessity for her to stay in Wano... Luffy is going to change the world... Wano won't need to be closed off...
It's not going to be the same as it was before...
Everything Yamato does and says about Wano is just for the moment it's not for the future...
You're making all this effort to make arguments why she won't join...
Then you must have an answer to why she would forsake her wish to leave? She sees her future away from Wano, she's not saying she'll protect Momo and Wano forever, she's saying she'll protect it from Kaido, that's a limited timeframe...
Once that is done, what is she going to do?
I didn't say you were dumb, sorry if it came out that way.
You're biased, you have your opinion, and you try to prove that you're right, just like anyone else, but the problem is that everything else that doesn't fit that opinion is ignored or avoided, most of the time.
Can you come up with a reason why she will forsake her wish to leave?
Yeah those panels about momo remind me of the bond shown in panels between carrot and the straw hats.
Hahahaa
That's a good one.
Almost as good as Yamato is this arc's Don Sai.
@Vongola_Boss_XI:
What Deicide underscores is that Oda has shown us a bond between Yamato and Momo. He has only told us about a bond between Yamato and Luffy. 'Show, don't tell' is one of the biggest rules in storytelling.
Man, you just made me realise something…
Kin’emon may die because Yamato left Momonosuke’s side too early.
Holy shit...
Can you come up with a reason why she will forsake her wish to leave?
It all depends on where Oda actually intends to take the story.
Totally get that Yamato wants to be like Oden, and wants to go out on Luffy's ship because that's what makes sense. Forsaking the plans to leave would depend on what character growth is given by the end of the arc, and whether there is a better reason to stay on Wano, or leave independently with a different crew. Luffy's happens to be the highest opportunity at the moment, and it's lending a lot to having Yamato join because of all the other connections we have. But ultimately those decisions are all dependent on characterization by the end of the arc.
Exact same reason why Vivi chose to stay despite wanting to join Luffy and crew. It's not a matter of proclamation, motivation or desire. It's all about how she was meant to be characterized by the end of the arc, and this was accomplished by having her take up certain responsibilities that she was otherwise avoiding by being a pirate.
Yamato is a blank slate. We are only told and given reasons of wanting to leave, but very little on the actual background of the character and any deeper connections to Wano or the Kozuki. "Wanting to be Oden" is a very multi-layered identity, because we have Oden the Adventurer and Oden the 'Guardian' of Wano. And we see elements of both in Yamato wanting to leave and join Luffy, but also wanting to defend Momo to the death. We don't really know at this moment how this all plays out, we're all just assuming that any association to Oden must equate to travelling around the world as he did, when we're also skipping the fact that Oden's final goals involved wanting to open Wano's borders and we really don't know what the end result of that would be.
Maybe we get some twist ending where Momo opens the borders, decides he needs some experience in the world, and appoints Yamato to accompany him on Wano's world-exploration fleet. At this point in time it's still too early to tell what is really going to happen; Yamato joining Luffy is just one of many possibilities still.
@Triceron is on point.
A character arc is meant to make a character change. Viewpoints change, actions leave consequences, knowledge and wisdom are gained…
Judging Yamato’s start is not as important as trying to predict where he will be when Wano concludes.
Vivi had no purpose beyond Alabasta. Her entire character arc was about saving her country from Baroque Works, and unlike other Straw Hats it never was something holding her back from going out and chasing her own selfish dream. The Straw Hats are designed in a way that they could be the protagonists of their own story, and stories where the main character fulfills his main goal within the first fifth of the entire length and then has to find something new to work towards aren't good ones.
Yamato on the other hand is more like the other Straw Hats. Liberating Wano is only currently the highest priority and what's keeping Yamato from chasing his own selfish dreams. He's willing to die for Momo and put his life on the line so that Luffy can finally beat his father, but that's not all that different from Jimbei. I know that people who didn't want Jimbei to join kept predicting his death. I remember that people called Jimbei too bland, he has no quirks except "I would die for you", he doesn't fit through Sunny's doors. Now we all know how that worked out.
I see this as the same thing, people don't want Yamato to join so they try to find all these meta clues about panels, hidden meanings and the likes, while blindly ignoring what the story has repeatedly spelled out for us. Things like that don't offset the amount of focus Yamato received despite his late introduction into the arc.
Yes, Yamato needs more characterization and his background to be fleshed out but to say he's a blank slate is far from the truth.
.
Yamato on the other hand is more like the other Straw Hats. Liberating Wano is only currently the highest priority and what's keeping Yamato from chasing his own selfish dreams. He's willing to die for Momo and put his life on the line so that Luffy can finally beat his father, but that's not all that different from Jimbei. I know that people who didn't want Jimbei to join kept predicting his death. I remember that people called Jimbei too bland, he has no quirks except "I would die for you", he doesn't fit through Sunny's doors. Now we all know how that worked out.
Pedro was played out the same way. There are plenty of potential crewmates out of the Grand Alliance as well. There exists characters who are willing to live and die for the Strawhats without outright joining them as crewmates. That is the reality of the situation, because Luffy is meant to be an absolute magnet that attracts both allies and enemies to his cause; whatever it may be.
Yes, Yamato needs more characterization and his background to be fleshed out but to say he's a blank slate is far from the truth.
I mean he's a blank slate in terms of having any history be written for him. We have no flashbacks, we have no deep-rooted internalization, we have nothing other than a surface-level desire to 'be Oden', and that is what I mean by being a blank slate. Wanting to be someone else does not actually show us who this character really is. What is the limit of wanting to be like Oden, and considering themselves as an individual with their own limits and desires? Right now we're not seeing any line drawn, and he's gone as far as calling himself Momo's dad, while only having passing mentions of 'his other name'. There's a lot of delusion involved in this character that makes it difficult to identify right now, and frankly that true identity is the blank slate I am talking about.
Yamato could be a complete cowardly introvert on the inside who has been using this outward 'I want to be Oden' motivation to disassociate from their own 'weak' identity. Or Yamato identifies with Oden because that is his personality down to a T, and he would consider every one of his actions to be something 'Oden would do' as a result. We don't really know who Yamato is on the inside because we haven't been given any moment to explore that so far, only a surface level interaction and a basic understanding of a harsh upbringing.
You are right. We should totally ignore visual language in a visual media.
Mind to share the visuals that convinced you Hancock was going to join?
Mind to share the visuals that convinced you Hancock was going to join?
Are you sure you want that?
THAT character arc hasn’t started YET. I don’t have a lot of hints of her joining, but I can provide quite a lot to back up that she will have a big character arc ahead. I just feel like it’s not the turn for that discussion. Just wait next arc start, and we may have a lot to talk about.
Wait… So..
You have chosen to believe that; non-existent panelling=highly likely future nakama.
That's weird.
Pedro was played out the same way. There are plenty of potential crewmates out of the Grand Alliance as well. There exists characters who are willing to live and die for the Strawhats without outright joining them as crewmates. That is the reality of the situation, because Luffy is meant to be an absolute magnet that attracts both allies and enemies to his cause; whatever it may be.
I'm not saying that willing to sacrifice yourself for the Straw Hats means they're joining. Besides, what selfish goal did Pedro or members of the Grand Fleet have? Pedro wanted to help Roger and consequently the Straw Hats because he thinks they're the ones to finally bring the "Dawn". But I think that's nowhere near on the same level as the other Straw Hats. Pedro's desire completely revolves around other people and not himself. Even Jimbei who's fighting for Merfolk across the globe is personally affected by it and has seen friends and family suffer from the systematic oppression he wants to get rid of.
I see the selfishness as a big part of every single Straw Hats' dream because it's an integral part of their character arc. Every one of them wanted to achieve something but was held back because of circumstances they were stuck in. Until Luffy came around, dealt with those circumstances and finally enabled them to chase their dream while simultaneously offering them the best chance to be successful.
That's actually the reason why I can't take it seriously as a supposed dream for Carrot if she were to join, and the same goes for Yamato. "Help bringing about the Dawn" isn't gonna cut it for anyone.
I mean he's a blank slate in terms of having any history be written for him. We have no flashbacks, we have no deep-rooted internalization, we have nothing other than a surface-level desire to 'be Oden', and that is what I mean by being a blank slate. Wanting to be someone else does not actually show us who this character really is. What is the limit of wanting to be like Oden, and considering themselves as an individual with their own limits and desires? Right now we're not seeing any line drawn, and he's gone as far as calling himself Momo's dad, while only having passing mentions of 'his other name'. There's a lot of delusion involved in this character that makes it difficult to identify right now, and frankly that true identity is the blank slate I am talking about.
As I said Yamato needs his background to be fleshed out more but it's still wrong to say that there's no history written for him or no flashbacks to speak of. We know that he was at Oden's funeral. We know that he was so amazed by it that he was brave enough to run to Momonosuke's aid despite being the same age. We know that he found Oden's journal and obsessed over it to the point of calling it his bible and assuming Oden's identity to some extent. We know that he did so despite being constantly punished for it, enduring physical and emotional abuse. We know that he doesn't agree with excessive violence and destruction even if it's directed at his own prison. We know that he gets excited by the prospect of strong rivals. We know that he was moved to tears when Ace told him about Luffy's dream even though it's supposed to be childish. We know that he's itching to prove himself and to support Luffy.
Yamato could be a complete cowardly introvert on the inside who has been using this outward 'I want to be Oden' motivation to disassociate from their own 'weak' identity. Or Yamato identifies with Oden because that is his personality down to a T, and he would consider every one of his actions to be something 'Oden would do' as a result. We don't really know who Yamato is on the inside because we haven't been given any moment to explore that so far, only a surface level interaction and a basic understanding of a harsh upbringing.
I think you are exaggerating the extent to how far Yamato identifies himself to be Oden. Absolutely nothing would suggest that everything he's shown us so far is just a byproduct of that quirk.
Wait… So..
You have chosen to believe that; non-existent panelling=highly likely future nakama.
That's weird.
There’s more than one way the author can leave hints of future developments.
My main prediction was always that Hancock’s character arc is going to happen, and that I can backup with plenty of in-story hints.
The belief that she may join is a prediction based on how that character arc may end. Now, for that it’s pretty much just my guess.
But I can’t judge Hancock’s chances the same way I can do for Carrot, Yamato or Tama. These characters’ arcs are happening right now. Hancock’s is still in the future.
Now, if you wanna talk about Hancock’s character arc hints, I recommend going to the Marineford 2.0 thread. I think it would be better to keep that discussion there, for now.
What Deicide underscores is that Oda has shown us a bond between Yamato and Momo. He has only told us about a bond between Yamato and Luffy. 'Show, don't tell' is one of the biggest rules in storytelling.
That bond is their between Yamato and Momo? The two habe known each other for minutes. Yamato took care of Momo because Momo is Oden's son and because Luffy said so. Momo han's done anything to earn Yamato's respect. From Momos perspective Yamato protected him for a gew minutes and then left because helping Luffy fight Kaido was more important to Yams.
Between Luffy and Yamato their relationship is completely one sided but it's based on who Luffy is. The things Yams learned from Ace and the yctions that Luffy did to get here. A lot of people downplay Yams respect for Luffy because it came before those tow actually met but that's part of what makes Yamato joining unique and special.
When Luffy met Zoro he was a nobody, of course he had to prove himself to Zoro first but now years have passed. Luffy is a big name, he has a reputation, he is called the fifth yonko. Why wouldn't their be someone who want's to join him before ever meeting him? That's a different type of relationship that sets Yamato apart form the rest of the crew and demonstrates Luffy's progression. Why wouldn't Oda want do explore that?
@Triceron is on point.
A character arc is meant to make a character change. Viewpoints change, actions leave consequences, knowledge and wisdom are gained…
Judging Yamato’s start is not as important as trying to predict where he will be when Wano concludes.
So in the series that is all about fullfilling your dreams, Yamato will just stay on the sidelines and play babysitter for the child emporer protected by an entire nation of samurai?
And when will Luffy come to the realization that wanting to be the pirate king is kinda selfish when he could actually use his eupreme haki to directly help the slaves of the world nobles? I mean Luffy would be a really flat charcter if his goals and viwpoints woudn't cange over the course of the story.
Wait… So..
You have chosen to believe that; non-existent panelling=highly likely future nakama.
That's weird.
Your talking to a poster a good amount of poster in the thread has given up on arguing with and trying to blame Yamato for Kinemon.
Might as argue that the minks to all start hating Sanji and co for Pedro, Sengoku should just have killed Law for Corazon, etc
I make arguments and explain every single conclusion I reach. You can agree or disagree, point logic flaws or offer arguments I haven’t considered, but you can’t say my opinions are baseless.
What I try to do here is a discussion between opinions and points of view. I never attack a person’s credibility or even opinions, I just respectfully disagree and place my counterpoints. I’m not here to “win” arguments, I find different ideas an incredible source of inspiration, but I don’t need to agree with them for that.
I don’t expect to be always right. Heck, sometimes I have more than one possible outcome in mind initially, then try to pin down the right one as more clues are presented. I find endless amusement in trying to foresee story points and developments in any narrative, not only One Piece. It’s thrilling when I get it right, and inspiring when the story manages to surprise me, especially when it happens in totally crazy yet awesome ways.
So cut the crap about poorly hidden insults that try to dismiss an opinion by judging the poster’s reputation or state of mind. Discussion should be about exchanging ideas, not trying to shut up dissenting opinions.
I’ll continue to post my thoughts as I see fit. Feel welcome to ignore me if they hurt your feelings so much.
Nami will have a hard time if Carrot joins. The ship has too many idiots. There should be too much overlap with idiots.
I seen a post about Yamato babysitting Momo. That reminds me of Luffy babysitting Carrot
!
I dunno, when outright stated intent crosses what at best could be subtle visual cues i'd be hard pressed to put the two on any where near equal footing. Like if it is all you have to go on i can, sort of, see the point of it, but trying to undermine actual story dialogue with how the picture it is presented in is framed seems like a little too much of a reach for me.
yeah..
Expressed desires/wishes/interests have always overrun all meta-hinting.
I dunno, when outright stated intent crosses what at best could be subtle visual cues i'd be hard pressed to put the two on any where near equal footing. Like if it is all you have to go on i can, sort of, see the point of it, but trying to undermine actual story dialogue with how the picture it is presented in is framed seems like a little too much of a reach for me.
There's a lot of subjective hints in an story, they come throught the art, dialogue, context, recurring themes, symbolism… In other media, they may be hidden in the music, or the colors used in a scene, or in voice tones. It's a case by case analysis. Sometimes one is above the other. Sometimes it's the opposite. Sometimes they are equaly big. Or equaly unimportant.
I usually find a recurring trend more important than a single occurrance. If a certain theme is repeatedly focused on big impactful panels, while another happens once or appears overall only in small panels, I'll usually take the former as a bigger foreshadow than the later.
It doesn't mean the author can't pull our legs and then switch signs later. The story is always evolving. A character aspect that is essential at the beginning of its journey may become meaningless near the end. Prediction is about trying to find where the character will be, not where it began.
My points are always to increase awareness toward possibilities. When I point out panels with Yamato being "Wano's Guardian" have gotten way more impact, I don't want to shut down other possibilities. I just want to see how people judge that information.
We shouldn't come here expecting people to say "you are right" or "you are wrong".
Instead, we should strive to get some thoughts like "Nice catch, but I think you are misjudging this because...", or "It's an interesting possibility, but I feel something else is more likely..."
I myself have brought two ideas here: I said not long ago that Yamato's desire to leave and have adventures is at his core and is probably not changing. And yet, my later find about which Yamato panels were even more impactful than his (seemingly) dream declaration made me uncertain of my previous point. Maybe one is right and the other is wrong. Maybe both are wrong. But they can even both the right. It's considering all the possibilities that makes discussion fascinating.
--- Update From New Post Merge ---
yeah..
Expressed desires/wishes/interests have always overrun all meta-hinting.
That's just not true. Franky's case, for instance. He never wanted to be a pirate. He never wanted to go with Luffy. He just wanted to build his dream ship.
Franky joining was in the meta-hints way more than in the character's motivations. In the end, he was convinced to join, and that only happened in the last few chapters before it happened.
Fact is, plain and simple one of these two things have to happen now in order for Yams not joining:
Or
2)Luffy says no.
Tertium non datur.
1 would be really awkward. 2 would be unprecedented and completely out of character for Luffy and it would also raise the need for way more explanations.
Both 1 and 2 could very well happen still, but they'd need story context. Number theories won't do, obscure callbacks to old panels won't do, alleged parallels with other characters won't do. The story will have to the us why the character that the story thus far said was joining won't.
Fact is, plain and simple one of these two things have to happen now in order for Yams not joining:
- Yams makes an heels turn and goes "actually nevermind what I've been repeating since my debut about wanting to going to sea specifically in Luffy's crew, that was all for shit and giggles my REAL calling is staying in the place I've been held prisoner for 20 years also for the rest of my life, because reasons"
Or
2)Luffy says no.
Tertium non datur.
1 would be really awkward. 2 would be unprecedented and completely out of character for Luffy and it would also raise the need for way more explanations.
Both 1 and 2 could very well a happen, still, but they'd need story context. Number theories won't do, obscure callbacks to old panels won't do, alleged parallels with other characters won't do. The story will have to the us why the character that the story this far said was joining won't.
Both are also true for Carrot.
So…
Both are also true for Carrot.
So…
I think I missed the panels where carrot asks to join the crew. As Luffy subordinate. Repeatedly.
There are no number of "plain and simple things" that would decide a characters path.
At this point lots of unaccounted things could happen.
The only thing clear now is that the subtleties are off.
Of course this does not mean that he won't join, but it's nowhere close to only having 2 possibilities for him not joining.
Edit: you know what nevermind, didn't expect this to be another subtle Carrot vs Yamato bullshit.
That's both spoiler and yet another meta-clue that can't factor as-is in the text of the story.
I think I missed the panels where carrot asks to join the crew. As Luffy subordinate. Repeatedly.
You must have missed Carrot already travelling with them and being their friend for 200+ chapters, then.
Why would she need to ask to join the crew when she has already been part of it since Chapter 823? She just needs to keep the current status quo to effectively join.
Unless she decides she had enough adventure. Or if Luffy orders her to leave.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Edit: you know what nevermind, didn't expect this to be another subtle Carrot vs Yamato bullshit.
It's not. I'm just pointing the flawed logic by using Carrot as a counter-example. I myself don't believe any of them will join.
It's fine. I also edited out that part, sorry!
You must have missed Carrot already travelling with them and being their friend for 200+ chapters, then.
Why would she need to ask to join the crew when she has already been part of it since Chapter 823? She just needs to keep the current status quo to effectively join.
Unless she decides she had enough adventure. Or if Luffy orders her to leave.
Kin'emon sailed with them even longer, and even has a fruit that, to my understanding, fits the number theory. So why's carrot and not him monopolizing the thread? Simple, because he has a story arc that ties him to Wano and nothing else. Like Yams has a story arc that ties him to Luffy and needs to be resolved if he ends up not joining. And carrot has no story arc at all.
By the way I indulged this last derailing of the topic cause I just can't sleep tonight, though I refuse to continue if points are being ignored and carrot is brought about meaninglessly. It's borderline trolling at this point.
Why would she need to ask to join the crew when she has already been part of it since Chapter 823? She just needs to keep the current status quo to effectively join
Most were asked, Robin asked herself, its gotta be vocalized to be official.
Carrot's just as official as Jhonny, Yozaku, Carue, Camie, Pappug, Momo, Kin'emon, Law, Kanjuro, etc.
And carrot has no story arc at all.
That's just false.
Carrot's character arc may be faded into the background for now, but she does have one, and it will come back at some point. Why do you think Pedro's words keep coming back to her? Because finding their meaning is her character arc, and it will define her future.
So, you can believe she's not joining for any number of reasons. But saying she has no story arc is factually wrong.
It's borderline trolling at this point.
Something is not trolling just because you disagree with it.
And I don't need to think Carrot will join to use her as an counter-example that's based on your logic to point a flaw in your own argument.
You said the only two ways Yamato wouldn't join is if his desire changes or if Luffy denies him.
That same line of thought applies to Carrot down to a T.
So, better check your logic again.
Most were asked, Robin asked herself, its gotta be vocalized to be official.
Carrot's just as official as Jhonny, Yozaku, Carue, Camie, Pappug, Momo, Kin'emon, Law, Kanjuro, etc.
I recall that Luffy didn't exactly ask Franky either. lol