I thought Jedi stole your work, but you are 1 in the same
lol indeed. I and me are one in the same.
I thought Jedi stole your work, but you are 1 in the same
lol indeed. I and me are one in the same.
Surprised people are freaking out about the statement this much, i guess contrast between understanding it rationally but still fearing it might be true.
If he still cares about the series as much as he did in the past, and there is nothing suggesting he does not, at least for me, 5 years is not possible.
I see it as "want to finish in 5 years and finally enjoy retirement and leaving this hellish schedule" kind of thing, which can be understandable. I doubt many would still keep going at this point after earning that much money but still being tied to a weekly schedule at this age, even if it got a bit better with the breaks.
Oh man looks like something big went down, I gotta read what happened
Anyone want to catch me up?
Oh man looks like something big went down, I gotta read what happened
Anyone want to catch me up?
Oda quadrupled down on the series is ending statement in an SBS using super specific wording, and the forum population is experiencing each one of the five stages of grief, but mostly bargaining
Wano- 1 more year (counting the rest of this year, wrap up after fighting is done, but done before 2022)
Misc-1 year mystery island, revolutionaries, poneglyph, side stuff, Vivi, Vegapunk, Shanks, odds and ends. Can all be included in other stuff
Elbaf- 1 year
Raftel- 1 year (includes flashback)
War finale-3 years (includes year of fighting BB crew and epilogue)
Oda said One Piece will end when it is revealed what it is. You still put the war after Raftel ?
Can someone explain to me why everyone is so sad if it indeed ends after 5 years? I hope my tone is right here and I don't sound like a dick.
Oda quadrupled down on the series is ending statement in an SBS using super specific wording, and the forum population is experiencing each one of the five stages of grief, but mostly bargaining
Personally, I don't really think that is what Oda expressed here.
Oda said One Piece will end when it is revealed what it is. You still put the war after Raftel ?
We've known since Marineford that we have to deal with the fallout of discovering what One Piece is.
Oda said One Piece will end when it is revealed what it is. You still put the war after Raftel ?
Oda was being very vague in his response, hence why there's so many interpretations of it going around. He said the series will end at its natural ending point, which is after they find One Piece, and that would be Luffy's greatest adventure. As in, he's not stretching the story out and doing a dozen filler islands for the sake of padding or because he's giving up on the series, but just because it IS reaching its natural end.
But part OF that adventure has to include whatever is learned from the treasure and the fallout.
Oda's statements don't exactly gibe with all the actual foreshadowing in the story, from Rayleigh and Whitebeard, and as recently as Oden. They get to Raftel, and discover something about the world that needs to change… that the Roger pirates were unable to do and needed to wait for a certain time..
You don't have the war, and THEN reveal what the war is about and have the characters decide "Okay I guess that war was good after all." Just doesn't work.
The change his recent statements make DO however make is seem like maybe the war is going to start and be going due to the fall out of Wano, which gives it a chance to scale and get big off-camera while the Strawhats do their last few islands, so that time and space may be parced out rather than all at once at the end, but the fallout of finding One Piece IS a part of finding it, its part of that same adventure. So less of Luffy starting the conflict, and more of him ending it maybe.
To that end, I suppose Blackbeard could be the actual catalyst.
Maybe finding OP is a ways into the war instead of before it now, but its still not going to be the final chapters of the series by itself. Not with the way the rest of the story has set it up.
Post war, when Luffy is King of the Pirates and strongest in the world, there aren't adventures worth talking about. But the war IS part of it.
Can someone explain to me why everyone is so sad if it indeed ends after 5 years? I hope my tone is right here and I don't sound like a dick.
Because just among the bits of content left that have been more or less promised, it feels like there's more material that can be done well in that amount of time without really rushing the ending, and we all (including Oda himself) want the final arc to be the biggest and best one..
Oda can cut corners and do montages and have stuff happen off camera and move a lot of plot very quickly, and he's not by any means obligated to actually deal with stuff he's setup, but no one wants to see stuff that's been promised for two decades be rushed for the sake of an arbitrary deadline. People will be okay if they visit Elbaf and thats a relatively short trip, but no one will be happy if they visit Elbaf, look at the scenery, absolutely nothing of note happens, and then leave 2 chapters later.
Even one or two more years feels a lot more reasonable with what we know should be left, and Oda's usual pacing, and falls in line with Oda having already stretched his original 5 year announcement into 6.
It'll all be a lot easier to judge when we see exactly how Wano ends and what the fallout of that leads to. If Wano was on the verge of wrapping up now instead of into even starting its proper fights yet, we'd all agree with 5 years a little more easily I think, but it feels like just this one location has a lot of mileage left.
Gotcha, thanks Robby!
Factually i'm sure you are right, but tell that to the internet. I'm calling it here, this will be making the rounds for years to come. The new pirate summit is upon us
You got movie Stampede, that is as close to as pirate summit as you can get.
People will be okay if they visit Elbaf and thats a relatively short trip, but no one will be happy if they visit Elbaf, look at the scenery, absolutely nothing of note happens, and then leave 2 chapters later.
I want Elbaf to be at least Zou length. And due to all the plot ties there, I would find it very weird if it's less than FI length.
I want a decently long Elbaf because that's one of the biggest extensions this series can get, and also it theoretically should be the biggest arc for Usopp in my mind.
–-
Does Oda remember the "The strong live, the weak die" line from Kaido's introduction? That's one of the things/themes I was looking forward to him covering most in Wano. Is he just saving it for later or did I already miss it?
@Vongola_Boss_XI:
lol crazy, but not entirely without precedent; I believe 20th Century Boys changed title to 21st Century Boys for the last 2 volumes, though they were sort of an epilogue… but also still the same story.
I think the structure is the critical part here; It just doesn't make sense given all the things we know for the true final conflict to come before the discovery of One Piece - and the Straw Hats aren't headed for Laugh Tale right after Wano.
And we aren't even done with Wano, with no signs pointing to its ending virtually anytime soon too. I agree with this entirely. IMO (We'll see how the story play out) it will depend on how Oda gets Luffy to Laugh Tale. All I hope is, he doesn't rush into things. If its truly 5 years to just One Piece, then by all I accounts I'm excited (provided the mystery was worth it, which I think it will be) for what follows.
Going to be an interesting few years thats for sure. I do wonder what the fanbase will say if it takes Wano another year or 2 to finish, the next arc doesn't really start the war or isn't even Elbaf or the location that has the 4th RP lol. THAT will be an interesting conversation to have. Either we see signs of things truly moving quick or its just the same sort of buildup/payoff we gotten for years. Like yes, I expect to see Sabo/Vivi/Hancock and the catalysts for starting a war with the WG soon, but it virtually took Oda 2 separate arc updates just "realistically" get ~70 Kingdoms to the Reverie. Now the scale is many times higher. I do wonder how he will manage to do it in this timeframe.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Oda said One Piece will end when it is revealed what it is. You still put the war after Raftel ?
He literally says "The most interesting part of Luffy's adventure, 'what is One Piece?' will end". He never actually says "One Piece, the manga, will end". Depending on your beliefs on how the story will go, you can interpret this in different ways because of how the first sentence implied. Greg for example only thinks the first word is subjective to his intention. He could mean "hai" as in "yes", its ending. Or it could mean "hai", as in "acknowledging" the question and beginning to answer the question by clarifying what he means.
Then you have a myriad of other translators and natives who do not take that sentence the same way as Greg does. Greg's interpretation of it is not wrong AT ALL, its probably in fact the right way to see it. However, because of how the first sentence is said, many people disagree on the meaning of what Oda is saying.
Then you have the truly meta people who are saying Oda is playing 5D chess and carefully chose that wording to confuse the hell out of people.
Personally, I agree with Greg. I think Oda intends to end the series in 5 years. I also agree with those who think the war will come after finding OP/Luffy becoming PK. Its just a matter of how much you think Oda will stay true to his word and finish the series on time.
But no, finding One Piece after defeating the WG does not make sense to me. It does not make sense to people who have clearly read Oda's text back at Sabaody, Marineford and now Wano. I have now been called "too dogmatic" about this because I'm not "open to other interpretations", but to me its plainly right there with no other interpretation. Whitebeard clearly says "Find One Piece -> Take on the World". Roger says "I found One Piece -> but I'm missing something else to take on the world". Rayleigh says "We found One Piece -> but we were missing something else to do anything about it". Clearly there are 2 ingredients to "taking on the world". One is finding One Piece. The other is not descriptive, but likely implied by waiting for the Mermaid Princess to grow up among other things, because Chapter 968 implies this heavily.
There doesn't even need to be a defeat of WG. The story can also end with a hint that WG in its current shape is doomed, thanks in no part to what SH did. As an epilogue of sorts.
There doesn't even need to be a defeat of WG. The story can also end with a hint that WG in its current shape is doomed, thanks in no part to what SH did. As an epilogue of sorts.
Really? After all of this setup in a shonen manga, you think this won't happen? I doubt this heavily. This frankly would ruin all of the constant setup of the WG being this big bad that needs to be taken down. It would ruin the point of the Revolutionaries. It would ruin Whitebeards entire ominous warning to the Marines/WG.
Do people really not expect payoff for this?
There doesn't even need to be a defeat of WG. The story can also end with a hint that WG in its current shape is doomed, thanks in no part to what SH did. As an epilogue of sorts.
16 characters of hell no
Go to check Greg twitter and see that "Made in Abyss" is recommended as a cute serie. Does that colleague secretly hate you ?
There doesn't even need to be a defeat of WG. The story can also end with a hint that WG in its current shape is doomed, thanks in no part to what SH did. As an epilogue of sorts.
\
I could have believed something similar to this was possible right up until the Im reveal, especially after the Revolutionaries pointed out that they don't want to destroy the World Government, but change it. Im to me represents a figurehead that necessarily needs to be taken down along with the Celestial Dragon's, whose downfall hasn't been an option since they entered the story back in Sabaody. Then again, Oda introducing God Valley and Roger+Whitebeard protecting the Dragons might open up a an opportunity to deal with them in a way we aren't quite expecting.
\
I could have believed something similar to this was possible right up until the Im reveal, especially after the Revolutionaries pointed out that they don't want to destroy the World Government, but change it. Im to me represents a figurehead that necessarily needs to be taken down along with the Celestial Dragon's, whose downfall hasn't been an option since they entered the story back in Sabaody. Then again, Oda introducing God Valley and Roger+Whitebeard protecting the Dragons might open up a an opportunity to deal with them in a way we aren't quite expecting.
Killing the CD's at God Valley wasn't really Rock's only goal. Its implied there was more because the WG covered up their actions and also "erased" the island from maps. If it was simply just a job of protecting CD's and their slaves, I'm not sure why actually making the island "disappear" would be important.
The thing about The Revolutionaries intention to take down the CD's: They pretty much make up the entire WG or their forces are meant to protect them.
These are the barriers to taking them out. Unless virtually most of their forces just straight up turn against them, war is how you take out the CD.
I mean, Oda literally said he will draw the greatest war in OP. Do people expect this to only be with Blackbeard or something?
@Gia:
Really? After all of this setup in a shonen manga, you think this won't happen? I doubt this heavily. This frankly would ruin all of the constant setup of the WG being this big bad that needs to be taken down. It would ruin the point of the Revolutionaries. It would ruin Whitebeards entire ominous warning to the Marines/WG.
Do people really not expect payoff for this?
Not sure what to expect now, after what Oda announced.
Oh don't think there won't be any glorious battle. But maybe we won't get to see the ultimate destruction of WG on panel, just SH's most glorious hour.
It's not like I'm wishing for it, just don't know. Skipping over and shortening fights is more norm than a rare occurrence nowadays. I'm simply not expecting to be satisfied with the endgame completely.
No need to quote all of you, I figure.
In reality, Oda's really only skipped fights that don't lead to anything (Sanji vs. Page 1 clearly didn't, Ulti vs. Yamato didnt either) or were purposefully hidden to prevent us from seeing the extent someone's strength (Akainu vs. Aokiji, Marco vs. Blackbeard, Big Mom vs. Kaido, Oden vs. Kaido, Revolutionaries vs. Admirals) because we will eventually see those people go all out as we near the EoS.
I'm willing to bet Kanjuro is alive and fine, and will have his eventual battle in Wano.
So its not really that Oda 'skips' fights, he just uses them purposefully and only makes them last a chapter or 2 outside of Luffy or Zoro's main battles. I'm sure Kaido's commanders will get longer lasting fights though, compared to others.
@Gia:
Killing the CD's at God Valley wasn't really Rock's only goal. Its implied there was more because the WG covered up their actions and also "erased" the island from maps. If it was simply just a job of protecting CD's and their slaves, I'm not sure why actually making the island "disappear" would be important.
The thing about The Revolutionaries intention to take down the CD's: They pretty much make up the entire WG or their forces are meant to protect them.
- The Gorosei are CD's, just the top 5.
- Im is probably some form of a CD whom the Gorosei serve
- The CP-0 were established to serve the CD's
- The Admirals (and by extent, likely the Fleet Admiral Sakazuki as well as the WG Commander-in-Chief, Kong) are meant to obey the CD commands.
- Who knows what other group/force/faction the WG may have as we move closer to the end. We don't really know who Kong commands or if there are other WG officials like him.
These are the barriers to taking them out. Unless virtually most of their forces just straight up turn against them, war is how you take out the CD.
I mean, Oda literally said he will draw the greatest war in OP. Do people expect this to only be with Blackbeard or something?
What I think seemed logically possible (which doesn't mean I thought it was going to happen, but that it could have happened) was an ending in which the Celestial Dragons are taken out and then the One Piece was found and then whatever happens afterward was similar to how Razh said, an implied continual something.. I don't really think it's possible now because Im's character represents a king that absolutely has to be beaten by someone and as a central figure, needs higher stakes in being taken out than a loose group of snotty nosed idiots and a couple of ambiguous leaders.
I mentioned Rocks because if whatever he could have done at God Valley might have made him king, then it could opens up possibilities about taking down or replacing the Dragons that doesn't involve going to Mariesjoa. It also could be much more simple and completely unrelated to his highest ambitions.
@Gia:
In reality, Oda's really only skipped fights that don't lead to anything (Sanji vs. Page 1 clearly didn't, Ulti vs. Yamato didnt either) or were purposefully hidden to prevent us from seeing the extent someone's strength (Akainu vs. Aokiji, Marco vs. Blackbeard, Big Mom vs. Kaido, Oden vs. Kaido, Revolutionaries vs. Admirals) because we will eventually see those people go all out as we near the EoS.
I'm willing to bet Kanjuro is alive and fine, and will have his eventual battle in Wano.
So its not really that Oda 'skips' fights, he just uses them purposefully and only makes them last a chapter or 2 outside of Luffy or Zoro's main battles. I'm sure Kaido's commanders will get longer lasting fights though, compared to others.
He skips fighting, and a good amount of it. Which is inevitable when every arc has like hundred characters.
Yes, it is really Oda skips fights because there's no time to show everything.
It's not just fighting, though. A lot of character interaction gets condensed, with SH more noticeable than other. It's gotten to the point I get thrilled when they actually exchange more than couple lines that aren't related to the current plot.
He skips fighting, and a good amount of it. Which is inevitable when every arc has like hundred characters.
Yes, it is really Oda skips fights because there's no time to show everything.
It's not just fighting, though. A lot of character interaction gets condensed, with SH more noticeable than other. It's gotten to the point I get thrilled when they actually exchange more than couple lines that aren't related to the current plot.
This is offset by the sheer number of characters though. Arcs are longer on average, and have way more going on. Thats why I really don't see a difference in pace when you account for the fact that DR, WCI and Wano all have a ridiculous amount of characters all focused on
@Gia:
Really? After all of this setup in a shonen manga, you think this won't happen? I doubt this heavily. This frankly would ruin all of the constant setup of the WG being this big bad that needs to be taken down. It would ruin the point of the Revolutionaries. It would ruin Whitebeards entire ominous warning to the Marines/WG.
Do people really not expect payoff for this?
This isn't something you need to stress about. People misread this series all the time, either purposely or unintentionally. The chance of the WG not being dealt with in a big, long way is 0%. Besides the obvious thing that we don't talk about (Oda health-related).
Is the giant world war supposed to be caused by the Tontattas getting really mad that there's not enough berries for them to eat? What causes this giant world war that Oda and Whitebeard have both mentioned, directly, I wonder?
Depends on what you mean with deal with the WG. Dealing with the main figure heads only and leaving the structural reforms to an epilogue is a possibility, not tackling any of it sounds beyond unlikely to me.
@Gia:
Personally, I agree with Greg. I think Oda intends to end the series in 5 years. I also agree with those who think the war will come after finding OP/Luffy becoming PK. Its just a matter of how much you think Oda will stay true to his word and finish the series on time.
.
That's a rational side. But we also know that Oda knows the end of his manga. That he has told it to all his editors. I even think he knows what the last panel will be. And for me this makes more sense if this truth that is revealed is the ultimate secret of the serie rather than the result of a big battle
But well I don't think we can change our point of view on the subject
Depends on what you mean with deal with the WG. Dealing with the main figure heads only and leaving the structural reforms to an epilogue is a possibility, not tackling any of it sounds beyond unlikely to me.
This is definitely a possibility.
I just want a real Coby vs Luffy right before the epilogue. Friendly fight. 'cause I'm not counting on Luffy living in the epilogue.
Depends on what you mean with deal with the WG. Dealing with the main figure heads only and leaving the structural reforms to an epilogue is a possibility, not tackling any of it sounds beyond unlikely to me.
I think Im and the Celestial Dragons+Mariejoas have to go down and the Red Line will likely be taken out, but the marines will certainly remain and the World Government will somehow become more equal.
That's a rational side. But we also know that Oda knows the end of his manga. That he has told it to all his editors. I even think he knows what the last panel will be. And for me this makes more sense if this truth that is revealed is the ultimate secret of the serie rather than the result of a big battle
But well I don't think we can change our point of view on the subject
I personally disagree with this. I've yet to truly see an epic hide every bit of its mystery for the absolute end, unless the whole story was meant to be some sort of plot twist where we misunderstood everything about it. One Piece is clearly not set up this way or for this.
Again, Oda himself, through his characters (Clover, Whitebeard, Rayleigh, Roger AND Oden through his narration), have made it explicitly clear that finding One Piece/learning of the Ancient Kingdom/Void Century/Ancient Weapons is what will lead to a big chaotic war or changing something dramatic. If he knows his ending, then it should be obvious that what he makes his characters say or do likely come into fruition.
I've made this comparison before to A Song of Ice and Fire (without spoilers). GRRM has clear plot setup to prophecy-like events in his story. There is clear speculation to which characters fill those respective roles or how those events would play out, especially since the show made several of them abundantly clear after it surpassed the books. The show (roughly) followed those threads, and then in the end, tried to "subvert expectations" by abandoning most of them entirely and making other characters fulfill the roles or just not at all, even though they have NOTHING to do those storylines (those who watched the last season know what I'm talking about). its already been confirmed that the directors did not really follow GRMM's plot outlines those last 2 seasons, and the show was supposed to go on for another 4-5 seasons, not 2 shortened ones.
This would be equivalent to Oda teasing and teasing and teasing major plotlines, to it virtually not paying off in the actual story. Even the titular One Piece serving no other function other than its identity would be bad at this point because its been 100% set up to be more than just a treasure.
"Ah the World government did some pretty craaaazy stuff back in the day. Well, Luffy beat them already anyway, whatever".
"So this is what One Piece is…..OK end of the story I guess"
"Ah the Will of D. Cool, cool. I guess we already saw its meaning before this?"
"Thanks for telling me what the Ancient weapons do...even though we already saw them do what their supposed to do already?"
"Luffy became Pirate King! Okay story over"
See how this doesn't really work? You need payoff. If it came before, it makes Laugh Tale pointless. If its after, it makes Laugh Tale WAY more of an important plot thread.
Tldr: There is proof in creative entertainment (novels, shows, manga, etc) that when you don't follow your clear examples of writing or plot setup of an event happening, subverting expectations does NOT work. Aside from very rare occasions, being "unexpected" when uncalled for can absolutely hurt the story. Its generally an example of bad writing, and I don't believe Oda would ever fall into this category. Oda is usually unexpected while always following his plot threads. Wano's war/conflict with Kaido was setup over 9 years ago. This would be the equivalent of it being teased and never actually getting it by the time we got to Wano, or better yet, having Luffy defeat Kaido without helping Kinemon regather his allies, entirely defeating the purpose of the 9 scabbard plotline.
Sort of depends on what One Piece is doesn't it
Sort of depends on what One Piece is doesn't it
Not really. We already know, to an extent, of what its discovery will do. Whitebeard says before he dies "I'm not really interested in that treasure, but when its found… the whole world will be turned upside down". This is Viz's translation of that scene. Am I wrong in assuming that One Piece is central to starting a world conflict?
This isn't just one piece either. The World Government shakes when people are close to finding out the Void Century. What would even be the point of finding out the void century after defeating the WG lol?
@Gia:
Not really. We already know, to an extent, of what its discovery will do. Whitebeard says before he dies "I'm not really interested in that treasure, but when its found… the whole world will be turned upside down". This is Viz's translation of that scene. Am I wrong in assuming that One Piece is central to starting a world conflict?
This isn't just one piece either. The World Government shakes when people are close to finding out the Void Century. What would even be the point of finding out the void century after defeating the WG lol?
Not trying to de-credit you, also your post above this was really awesome. GOT Season 8 kind of ruined subversion for the sake of subversion for me.
But yeah anyway, VIZ translations should be taken with a pretty hefty grain of salt before Stephen took over, which was I'm 99% sure Punk Hazard. We need some important lines re-translated, or just need to post the raw JP pages of important dialogue here or on reddit sometime and get them translated. Whitebeard is saying that. But that's the type of page in-depth fans who see the bigger picture like you or me need an EXACT translation for. We're basically beyond the point of the English translation being sufficient, but learning Japanese takes so long and is not at all easy.
If I could find it there's an archived version of stephen's raw translations somewhere on the Internet, cnet from Mangahelpers works too. I'll just go look for cnet.
Not trying to de-credit you, also your post above this was really awesome. GOT Season 8 kind of ruined subversion for the sake of subversion for me.
But yeah anyway, VIZ translations should be taken with a pretty hefty grain of salt before Stephen took over, which was I'm 99% sure Punk Hazard. We need some important lines re-translated, or just need to post the raw JP pages of important dialogue here or on reddit sometime and get them translated. Whitebeard is saying that. But that's the type of page in-depth fans who see the bigger picture like you or me need an EXACT translation for. We're basically beyond the point of the English translation being sufficient, but learning Japanese takes so long and is not at all easy.
If I could find it there's an archived version of stephen's raw translations somewhere on the Internet, cnet from Mangahelpers works too. I'll just go look for cnet.
http://www.arlongpark.net/showthread.php?t=26643
Edit: I'll just copy it
13
Whitebeard: (It was so long ago, but…)
Blackbeard: ...Ah... I'm out of bullets.........
Whitebeard: You are not the one......... / pant // pant
Blackbeard: !! // The hell... you'restillalive?!!!
Whitebeard: The man who Roger was waiting for... / ...was not you, Teach, at the very least...
Blackbeard: Huh?!
Whitebeard: Just as there are those who have inherited Roger's will... // ...Ace's will too will someday be inherited by others... / pant / You may eradicate his bloodline, but "their" flames will never die... // ...For many ages, they have been passed down through the generations without fail.........!! / pant / And someday... bearing the weight of all those centuries upon his back... / ...a man will come forth to challenge this world.........!!!
People: ...............!!
Whitebeard: Sengoku... You people of the World Government... / ...are living in fear... of that great battle that will someday engulf the entire world!!! // Though it has nothing to do with me... when somebody finally finds that treasure...... // ...the world will be turned upside down......!! // Oh yes, it will be found. / That day will come, without a doubt...
Not trying to de-credit you, also your post above this was really awesome. GOT Season 8 kind of ruined subversion for the sake of subversion for me.
But yeah anyway, VIZ translations should be taken with a pretty hefty grain of salt before Stephen took over, which was I'm 99% sure Punk Hazard. We need some important lines re-translated, or just need to post the raw JP pages of important dialogue here or on reddit sometime and get them translated. Whitebeard is saying that. But that's the type of page in-depth fans who see the bigger picture like you or me need an EXACT translation for. We're basically beyond the point of the English translation being sufficient, but learning Japanese takes so long and is not at all easy.
If I could find it there's an archived version of stephen's raw translations somewhere on the Internet, cnet from Mangahelpers works too. I'll just go look for cnet.
I think it's not only an issue of the quality/precision of the translation, but also taking things too literaly or filling too many gaps with headcannon when the author was just teasing a future event without going too much in-depth. There's nothing wrong with the standard conclusions people take from WB's speech and some other foreshadowings, but we've reread it so many times that it became more inexorable and immovable than it should. Stories are more flexible than that.
Not to mention what I said the other day about the many possibilities of misdirections, subversions, shortcuts, surprises, twists, misinterpretations, etc.
I think it's not only an issue of the quality/precision of the translation, but also taking things too literaly or filling too many gaps with headcannon when the author was just teasing a future event without going too much in-depth. There's nothing wrong with the standard conclusions people take from WB's speech and some other foreshadowings, but we've reread it so many times that it became more inexorable and immovable than it should. Stories are more flexible than that.
Not to mention what I said the other day about the many possibilities of misdirections, subversions, shortcuts, surprises, twists, misinterpretations, etc.
My most common advice for people is to take things literally.
Oda's gonna get ya when he's gonna get ya, not really a way around that always even if you're Greg. But you'll hit the mark more often than not when you take things literally.
You also have to recognize WHEN a "haha gonna get ya" moment is possible. The narrator speaking at the end of the Ace and Blackbeard fight is not a "haha gonna get ya" moment for example. Whitebeard might as well be the narrator, or is close enough, in his death speech.
I think it's not only an issue of the quality/precision of the translation, but also taking things too literaly or filling too many gaps with headcannon when the author was just teasing a future event without going too much in-depth. There's nothing wrong with the standard conclusions people take from WB's speech and some other foreshadowings, but we've reread it so many times that it became more inexorable and immovable than it should. Stories are more flexible than that.
Not to mention what I said the other day about the many possibilities of misdirections, subversions, shortcuts, surprises, twists, misinterpretations, etc.
You are treating his speech as the only evidence. Its not. One Piece isn't the only narrative mystery at Laugh Tale, its also not the only thing that is supposed to be found prior to the "promised time".
Then you have Clover, Rayleigh, Roger and Oden who have all virtually have said the same thing in different ways.
Its very clear from Oden's flashback that in order to resolve whatever problem is the problem at hand, you need to go to Laugh Tale at the right time. This is important, because going to Laugh Tale is the key to knowing what to do/how to resolve X problem, but if you don't have everything to do it (i.e., befriending Poseidon it seems is one thing), then going to Laugh Tale is pointless.
The author has repeatedly specified this throughout the story. Whitebeard is just explicitly saying it. The findings at Laugh Tale (One Piece), at the right time (Poseidon being born among other things) will lead to the final conflict.
Edit: I'm not saying the war can't start beforehand. The Revolutionaries, Alabasta, etc, seem to be super on edge with the WG. It IS time for it to start, however its Luffys involvement that I'm talking about, the key to whatever ends the conflict on the good side.
My most common advice for people is to take things literally.
Oda's gonna get ya when he's gonna get ya, not really a way around that always even if you're Greg. But you'll hit the mark more often than not when you take things literally.You also have to recognize WHEN a "haha gonna get ya" moment is possible. The narrator speaking at the end of the Ace and Blackbeard fight is not a "haha gonna get ya" moment for example. Whitebeard might as well be the narrator, or is close enough, in his death speech.
Well, it's a good motto, and it has a lot of use, especially to prevent nonsensical interpretations from things, but I'd say that comunication is hardly as precise as we want, especially when the speech is trying to fulfill/convey too much in a short amount of time.
@Gia:
You are treating his speech as the only evidence. Its not.
Me: "WB's speech and other foreshadowings"…
Anyway, some of your other examples are way less clear on their own, and they can be used whichever way we want, so usually we just use them to match WB's speech and our headcannon.
Well, it's a good motto, and it has a lot of use, especially to prevent nonsensical interpretations from things, but I'd say that comunication is hardly as precise as we want, especially when the speech is trying to fulfill/convey too much in a short amount of time.
I agree!
Note that for OTHER stories my motto of "take it literally" may not be the same. OP has subtlety here or there, but not too often. The subtlety of Gear 2's conception for example.
I'll add onto my line of thinking: Take things literally, but be aware of the conditions that make that line true. No one thought Marco was coming to Wano, basically no one here or anywhere. Yet I was convinced he was going to show up, because it didn't seem like his flimsy line that he wouldn't would hold up if certain things happened. And he showed up.
Watch OP be a button that literally flips the world upside down.
Press here to invert reality. Thats what they were laughing so hard about.
Watch OP be a button that literally flips the world upside down.
Press here to invert reality. Thats what they were laughing so hard about.
They sure use that phrase a lot. :P
All joking aside it would be pretty Oda if OP turned out to be something pretty silly. Like we've built it up as this epic weapon to be unlocked and wielded for truth, beauty and freedom, but what if the actual OP treasure has nothing to do with the truth and the void century etc. I'd find it worth cracking up over like the Roger pirates did.
Watch OP be a button that literally flips the world upside down.
Press here to invert reality. Thats what they were laughing so hard about.
Or some type of ultra magnet tool that reverses the poles and flips just the red line.
All joking aside it would be pretty Oda if OP turned out to be something pretty silly. Like we've built it up as this epic weapon to be unlocked and wielded for truth, beauty and freedom, but what if the actual OP treasure has nothing to do with the truth and the void century etc. I'd find it worth cracking up over like the Roger pirates did.
He's got his ass covered both ways, really. If it ends up being goofy, Roger did laugh.
Not sure I'd feel the same way. Beyond the ominous warnings from Whitebeard, someone who knows what One Piece is through Roger, for all of its setup to be "belittled" or turned into a joke wouldn't sit will for probably not just me, but for a lot of fans after its reveal.
25+ years of waiting and we get a joke. I doubt even Oda would appreciate his own work amounting to that. I personally think they were laughing because Joy Boy's story (titular to his name) actually had a funny story (by all accounts, probably not the whole thing) to tell. Or they were laughing at the irony that they couldn't do anything after just spending all this time finding the treasure. I got chills from Roger's laughter scene. I don't know what Oda was going for there, but it almost feels like Oden's narration points to a serious future. Because after this, Oden himself realizes a war will be fought 20 years from his time.
All of this death and destruction, Robin's whole island being destroyed, 800 years of subjugation by a tyrannical government. It just wouldn't make sense.
Or maybe it's just something batshit crazy like the one piece being one of the pieces of a whole. Imu wants to smash together his one piece and the other one piece to make a whole piece, maybe it joins both worlds or something, or returns lost technology so that he can go back to the moon again. Vegapunk just remembers shit from the whole world by being near the imu one piece and the devil fruits are just lost organic technology. #crackpiece
@Gia:
Not sure I'd feel the same way. Beyond the ominous warnings from Whitebeard, someone who knows what One Piece is through Roger, for all of its setup to be "belittled" or turned into a joke wouldn't sit will for probably not just me, but for a lot of fans after its reveal.
25+ years of waiting and we get a joke. I doubt even Oda would appreciate his own work amounting to that. I personally think they were laughing because Joy Boy's story (titular to his name) actually had a funny story (by all accounts, probably not the whole thing) to tell. Or they were laughing at the irony that they couldn't do anything after just spending all this time finding the treasure. I got chills from Roger's laughter scene. I don't know what Oda was going for there, but it almost feels like Oden's narration points to a serious future. Because after this, Oden himself realizes a war will be fought 20 years from his time.
All of this death and destruction, Robin's whole island being destroyed, 800 years of subjugation by a tyrannical government. It just wouldn't make sense.
The bolded part is what I believe. I also got chills from one of the best most legendary scenes in the series.
I think an important part to keep in mind is that the whole hidden truth/save the world thing couldn't matter less to Luffy. He's literally some dong out on the sea trying to have a good time, who just falls into these sweeping world changing scenarios. So for him as a main something silly he can relate to probably would resonate more with him and why he undertook the journey than some help us you are our only hope message and prophecies
The One Piece treasure being a twist or an irony or a joke or something else doesn't need to be a bad thing. It's just that readers are not putting any effort here into making those hypotheses interesting or meaningful or thematically fitting. People just shake it off as subversion for the sake of subversion, which is acting in bad faith.
I can say the same thing about the possibility of Laugh Tale being the last arc/last island. There's a lot of ways to make it work beautifully.
I think an important part to keep in mind is that the whole hidden truth/save the world thing couldn't matter less to Luffy. He's literally some dong out on the sea trying to have a good time, who just falls into these sweeping world changing scenarios. So for him as a main something silly he can relate to probably would resonate more with him and why he undertook the journey than some help us you are our only hope message and prophecies
But its also important to his crew. Literally Robin's dream. And Luffy does care once he finds out something heinous was done. The void century is pretty much the flashback to end all flashbacks lol