Generally, a writer's word should be taken with a healthy dose of skepticism. See: Martin, R.R. George.
Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !
-
-
@Johnny:
Generally, a writer's word should be taken with a healthy dose of skepticism. See: Martin, R.R. George.
Quite literally the best example. His last 2 books, in manuscript form, allegedly rival the last 5 of his books combined. He is still actively trying to finish his 100+ character plot points in 2 books.
You'd have to assume Oda will be happy ending his story in 5 years. He consistently reminds us of tons of points not yet addressed. Why do people think he won't address them or even can in a 5 year timespan?
-
I feel like every author now wants to emulate Dickens in every possible way and die with an unfinished series left behind.
-
I feel like a number of people on this board underestimate the work and how mental taxing it is being a Jump mangaka or to work at something everyday for two decades.
Passion is not the one be all magic ingredient to power through the realities of life. And this is especially so in the creative field.In other fields, music, movie directing, novelist, etc.
You can have a few notable highlights and periods of intense hard work, suceed and sit back for longer periods to enjoy life.A mangaka and one that has written a story that has to be long is so peril and different a life.
I agree with Robby posts and they really did struck a chord in me as a creative myself.
It can be hellish no matter how grand your vision is and how strong you think you can hold to your beliefs.
Even if he is the number 1 artist and the richest, it is still hellish.
Add that to the international attention and expectations while working long hours and missing out on quality family time or wanting to be a better father.
He is human after all.
He can be togashi, or meet mid way or do biweekly to extend the lifespan of the story.
But the truth is, if he wants it to end in 5 years, it means he has long wanted to let go and move on.Edit: I always tell this to my friends that even if One Piece were to end tomorrow or if Oda decides to quit, I have zero feelings of negativity towards that.
The fact that it has reached this point and became what it is, is nothing short of a miracle. Just look at all the manga that has failed to pass a certain point in maintaining their quality as obvious signs the author has burnt out and died inside.
I might be a bit dramatic here but I have great and boundless respect for him as a fan but also have an understanding for him as a fellow human being. -
@Gia:
People keep saying what Oda "can" do, and never seem to look back at all his past examples of how much time he dedicates to characters and plotlines.
Look at how much time he's spent on Big Mom and Kaido, admittedly the 2 lesser Yonko compared to Blackbeard and Shanks. Is Oda going to spend less time with BB and Shanks? While they've popped around the story for decades, barely anything is known about each. Hell, we are STILL waiting for more characterization for Kaido and BM that revolves around Rocks and their past.
That's just a false correlation.
Big Mom and Kaido are in the manga for hundreds of chapter, but that doesn't mean that each one of those chapters were about them. On the contrary, they're not featured in the vast majority of chapters, and even when they do appear sometimes it is just fluff. When they're actually fleshed out, it happens through a few chapters that are particularly insightful.
People have forgotten how much a mangaka can make the story move forward, organically, in 10, 20, 50 chapters. Even Oda himself was much faster back in the day, because the story didn't take many roundabouts to develop the plot, nor did it add so many unnecessary secondary characters.
To finish One Piece in 200 chapters, it is not a question of whether it's possible to flesh out the characters and the stories that he needs to tell (since it's totally possible), but rather a question of whether or not Oda can restrain himself from adding a bunch of tangential sub-plotlines which only steals screentime from the main story.
-
That's just a false correlation.
Big Mom and Kaido are in the manga for hundreds of chapter, but that doesn't mean that each one of those chapters were about them. On the contrary, they're not featured in the vast majority of chapters, and even when they do appear sometimes it is just fluff. When they're actually fleshed out, it happens through a few chapters that are particularly insightful.
People have forgotten how much a mangaka can make the story move forward, organically, in 10, 20, 50 chapters. Even Oda himself was much faster back in the day, because the story didn't take many roundabouts to develop the plot, nor did it add so many unnecessary secondary characters.
To finish One Piece in 200 chapters, it is not a question of whether it's possible to flesh out the characters and the stories that he needs to tell (since it's totally possible), but rather a question of whether or not Oda can restrain himself from adding a bunch of tangential sub-plotlines which only steals screentime from the main story.
"Much faster".
CP-9 is still the longest arc in the series and it had way less characters than anything we've had post timskip. It will finally be surpassed by Wano purely due to how many characters are stuffed in the arc.
Lets not forget that now he has teased the SSG, a group of characters working with Vegapunk or CP-0 a group of mostly masked characters with yet to be revealed designs. The idea of more level 6 silver medalists escaping ID? He reminded us of this in DR. Then there's Vegapunk and Ryokugyuu, Im and Rocks (even as a flashback character with a hidden design).
The amount of introduced characters he already has still needs to be addressed, and there are way more than anything he has introduced or used in any one arc. I can explain a 100+ named characters already introduced that still have unaddressed roles and plotlines in the story. Just even on that front would take a monumental amount of time to address properly. And most of these characters he's reminded us of playing future roles regardless.
And like you said, that's IF Oda doesn't introduce more characters, which we all know he will.
-
@Gia:
"Much faster".
CP-9 is still the longest arc in the series and it had way less characters than anything we've had post timskip. It will finally be surpassed by Wano purely due to how many characters are stuffed in the arc.
Lets not forget that now he has teased the SSG, a group of characters working with Vegapunk or CP-0 a group of mostly masked characters with yet to be revealed designs. The idea of more level 6 silver medalists escaping ID? He reminded us of this in DR. Then there's Vegapunk and Ryokugyuu, Im and Rocks (even as a flashback character with a hidden design).
The amount of introduced characters he already has still needs to be addressed, and there are way more than anything he has introduced or used in any one arc. I can explain a 100+ named characters already introduced that still have unaddressed roles and plotlines in the story. Just even on that front would take a monumental amount of time to address properly. And most of these characters he's reminded us of playing future roles regardless.
And like you said, that's IF Oda doesn't introduce more characters, which we all know he will.
I've read many of your posts already, so I know about your long "to-do" lists… and I mostly disagree that Oda will develop most of the things that you think are supposed to be brought back again in any meaningful way. Like, 100+ characters who will be properly focused? Nah.
And it's obvious that Oda will introduce new characters, and that's not a problem as long he doesn't deviate from the essential.
For example, when we look at the characters of Alabasta (aside from the villains), we have Vivi and King Cobra, two royal guards (Chaka and Pell), one rebel (Kohza) and one citzen (Toto). Only six prominent secondary characters in total, and some of them didn't get a lot of screentime. That's really tight, and yet the story was really well told. Now compare it to the crazyness that is Wano (10 scabbards, Momo, Oden, Shinobu, Yasuie, Hyougoro, Hiyori, Tama, Toko), and then there are other allies on top of it and different groups of villains.
And Alabasta was a massive arc at the time (around 60 chapters), mostly because Oda took his time with the fights. But not all arcs were that big, and some of the smaller ones (30 or less chapters) did a lot to move the story forward.
If Oda has the intention of speeding up things to get to the end, he just needs to focus on the characters that really matter on each of the remaining arcs, and keep the plot to the point instead of running around. I think 20 chapters is a good number for a shorter arc, and 50 is a good ceiling for a longer arc, so 200 chapters can do a lot.
Obviously, Oda won't meet his deadline if keeps the trend of adding too much.
-
@Gia:
People keep saying what Oda "can" do, and never seem to look back at all his past examples of how much time he dedicates to characters and plotlines.
Look at how much time he's spent on Big Mom and Kaido, admittedly the 2 lesser Yonko compared to Blackbeard and Shanks. Is Oda going to spend less time with BB and Shanks? While they've popped around the story for decades, barely anything is known about each. Hell, we are STILL waiting for more characterization for Kaido and BM that revolves around Rocks and their past.
It's generally assumed that since he's friendly with Shanks its not going to be a mega arc that takes hundreds of chapters to build up and finish. Especially as its incredibly hard to imagine them fighting seriously in any sort of life and death struggle. And Blackbeard is part of the final war.
Plus all the signs point towards BB taking Shanks out. Oda likes to subvert so maybe not, but…
@Gia:
You'd have to assume Oda will be happy ending his story in 5 years. He consistently reminds us of tons of points not yet addressed. Why do people think he won't address them or even can in a 5 year timespan?
Oda is human. There is a line between "I want to do this story forever and showcase every nuance I can" and "I want to rest." Oda's clearly tipping over to the second thing.
Maybe if he was allowed to take a full six month break from the series or something like that he'd recharge and be up for it going longer and stretching every detail, but he's gotta be wearing down. Even if he's not actually going to make it in 4.5 years, he has to tell himself that.
And its not like when OP is finished thats the end of his career. He'll still be able to do new stories and new ideas and entirely new genres whenever he wants with zero pressure, just crank out a 1 volume story occasionally like Toriyama does. Or work on games or movies or just spend time with his kids and watch tv shows. Enjoy that well earned retirement.
It's easy for us to look at the series and think "well EVERY arc has to be bigger and better than the last!" And that's true… up to a point. Heading into the endgame? There can be a couple smaller cooldown arcs instead.
Elbaf can VERY EASILY be the length of one of the old school arcs, 20-30 chapters. Its easy to go "Oda loves vikings, surely he'll want to spend time there!" Sure. But he could also just drag one of the vikings with the crew. Or... he could finish One Piece, take a two year vacation, and then just do a story about Vikings and only vikings and really dive into it for a few months with no obligation to make it an ongoing.
Same with Raftel. The final island, the thing hyped since th start of the series SHOULD be big. But.. if the entire adventure is just getting to it, then seeing a room of treasure, then finding out the true history? That doesn't have to be a year, that can be a few months, that's all thats needed to set things off. We don't even need a lengthy Gold Roger flashback anymore since Oden kind of covered it in the space of two chapters. (And Oda can always come back n a few years and do any prequel or side story he feels like.)
Just finishing One Piece doesn't mean it'll be over. The anime will stretch the end as long as it can, then it'll do a Kai version, and there will probably still be movies every other year... or Oda can take the same cast and make them "actors" in different things. It's all open.
-
I feel like a number of people on this board underestimate the work and how mental taxing it is being a Jump mangaka or to work at something everyday for two decades.
Passion is not the one be all magic ingredient to power through the realities of life. And this is especially so in the creative field.In other fields, music, movie directing, novelist, etc.
You can have a few notable highlights and periods of intense hard work, suceed and sit back for longer periods to enjoy life.A mangaka and one that has written a story that has to be long is so peril and different a life.
I agree with Robby posts and they really did struck a chord in me as a creative myself.
It can be hellish no matter how grand your vision is and how strong you think you can hold to your beliefs.
Even if he is the number 1 artist and the richest, it is still hellish.
Add that to the international attention and expectations while working long hours and missing out on quality family time or wanting to be a better father.
He is human after all.
He can be togashi, or meet mid way or do biweekly to extend the lifespan of the story.
But the truth is, if he wants it to end in 5 years, it means he has long wanted to let go and move on.Edit: I always tell this to my friends that even if One Piece were to end tomorrow or if Oda decides to quit, I have zero feelings of negativity towards that.
The fact that it has reached this point and became what it is, is nothing short of a miracle. Just look at all the manga that has failed to pass a certain point in maintaining their quality as obvious signs the author has burnt out and died inside.
I might be a bit dramatic here but I have great and boundless respect for him as a fan but also have an understanding for him as a fellow human being.Yep. This is what I tried to explain in another thread and didn't do as well as you have. A Mangaka's life, to me at least, seems to have a more on-note sort of labor than most other creative mediums, especially for those doing weekly series. I think it might be easier if there was a bit more flexibility and freedom in the "vision" we have for manga where Oda wasn't expected to shoulder so much of the work. (I know he has assistants, but my understanding is he still draws everything that is moving and a large amount of other things)
-
Martin is a terrible go-to since he basically lost all interest in the main story and just wants to be doing anything else. He wrote an entirely different 700 page story in that universe that no one cared about because it wasn't the next part.
Creators need to stretch and go where their passions take them and take creative breaks, but when you tell the readers you're doing an ongoing story that will have an ending, there's some kind of promise about trying to be timely about it. 5 years between volumes of that density and scope isn't insane. But we're on year NINE since the last volume, (which came out right after the first season of the show!), he's still got at least a year to go on it, and then all the editing and publishing stuff will take another six months even if they rush, that's going to be well over a decade between volumes.. and that's only if he finishes next year! And its not even the final volume!.
At some point the line between "the art takes the time it takes" and "the story has to get out" gets crossed. The author is not our bitch and we can't have them chained to a table. I was a staunch defender of Martin's schedule up through about year 8 and would always make the proper comparisons to other stories that took time write. But at this point its just been too long. If he's not going to do GoT, at least do another Haviland Tuff novel in the meantime or something.
Also Patrick Rothfuss. He's never finishing The Kingkiller Chronicle. He's the guy we should mention instead of Martin, because GoT is the obvious target.
One chapter flashback with lots of narrator captions can cover a lot of ground.
Easiest guess is that, whatever power Imu has, be it actual physical power, or knowledge, or blood control over all the old families because he's 1000 years old, or whatever… is mostly there to be taken and usurped. He doesn't need to be a major figure if he's just there for Blackbeard to crush and clear the board with.
Same as Orochi. (Who isn't dead and may still get back up and have some story relevance for the scabbards to deal with, but was also effectively taken off the table as "important" in a single surprise panel.)
Maybe it comes down to difference in interpretation of one point. I don't really get the sense here that Oda is anxious to be done with One Piece. At least not sufficiently so that he would cut corners or drop plot-lines.
In this interview, he doesn't say there's another series he's chomping at the bit to go write.
By no means am I advocating for Oda enduring undue stress to deliver entertainment to his readers. Over the years he has reduced the page count of individual chapters and he now takes many more brakes than in the past. Those are things I would never complain about. I have no doubt writing / drawing a massive story like One Piece is stressful, but I haven't gotten the impression that Oda enjoys writing One PIece any less now than he did years ago.
The bigger point I was trying to make is that, absent outside pressure by a studio or corporate party that needs to hit a deadline, an artist who is passionate about their work is likely to work beyond a stated deadline. And I just think that as One Piece gets to the biggest story stuff that Oda has been waiting to draw for many years, he's not going to cut those stories short.
I think a better example than GRR Martin is James Cameron. Avatar 2 has been 2 years away for the past 5 - 6 years. And of course the next 4 Avatar movies will come out eventually. I do think the 2022 date is possible if Disney doesn't push the next batch of Star Wars films even further, given the recent interview where Kathleen Kennedy said they need to step back and 'absorb George Lucas's Star Wars.' James Cameron has dedicated the past 11 years, foregoing opportunity to make movies he was interested in like Alita, just to see through his vision for Avatar. And by the time all is said and done, he will have spent 20 years on this franchise.
Through all of this, I get the sense that Oda is still passionate about One Piece. I'm sure fatigue is a factor, just not a major one. I don't expect a sudden shift into ludicrous speed after Wano. I think we have already seen the ways Oda 'condenses' his story in the past few arcs. He has cut down on extended fight scenes and combined ideas for multiple islands into single islands (Punk Hazard, Dressrosa). What he hasn't done is drop plot lines or characters entirely. And the thing is, I think Oda has accelerated the pacing as fast as he's willing / able. The pace of the story has been fairly consistent since Fishman Island. Chapters are very text heavy. There is some dense exposition. Fights are brief and lots of characters are packed into every story arc.
The thing is, the past three story arcs have ballooned to be much longer than Oda seems to have anticipated (Dressrosa, Whole Cake, and Wano). The current 'saga' will be about 9 years when Wano is finished.
I'm not expecting anything like an arc dedicated to Impel Down level 6 escapees. But I do think there are several islands and events Oda has clearly foreshadowed. Even if they happen in quick succession, they'll still take time. We know Oda said he would be done WCI quickly DURING that arc and then went on to take over an other year before moving onto Wano. I think the takeaway here is more along the lines of everything now building to the grand finale. I wouldn't expect any major deviations from the path like Skypiea. And I think that's also what Oda's trying to say to readers. I get the impression that Oda is very concerned about readers feeling One Piece is too long. Particularly new, younger readers. That's why he takes time to re-introduce characters we already know, or to summarize (briefly) past events as he did during Reverie. I think Oda is aware of just how big One Piece has become. I don't think he wants to shortchange readers or rush in any way. That's really not the vibe I'm getting from the story itself. Because there are already a number of narrative shortcuts that Oda could have already taken with Wano. It took 10 chapters from the start of the Onigashima raid to get to the attack on Kaido. 14 chapters spent on Oden's flashback. 2 chapters spent on Onimaru and Zoro. A whole chapter on the introduction of the Tobi Roppo, setting up a chase for Yamato that hasn't really played into the plot in any major way. He could have had Luffy take down Big Mom on Whole Cake and wrapped up her story before Wano. If Oda was really rushing and cutting things short, I think we would see it in the actual story.
I get the sense more that Oda wants to reassure readers that there is an ending. For people who aren't really invested in One Piece, who don't see the plot threads coming together, they might get the sense that the story is just languishing, that Oda is spinning his wheels and not really moving any closer to the finish line. Like, Hunter x Hunter totally gives the vibe that it's never going to end. Togashi introduced this massive concept and I have zero faith that he'll ever see it through to its maximum potential. And I'm not judging. I'm satisfied enough with the 'ending' atop the world tree. But I think Oda's trying to reassure those readers that One Piece does have an ending and each story arc is building towards that.
And I mean, no one really expects the five year estimate to work out. It's really a debate about the degree of error in the estimate. I don't really think we're that far off. You're saying about 7 years. I say about 10, 12 max. I know we don't see things the same way re the final saga. I think there's going to be a confrontation with Blackbeard before Im and the World Gov. And that's entirely because I think all of the plot threads converge with a war against the world as it presently is, not against an usurper. It's not just about Luffy becoming Pirate King, but all of the Straw Hats fulfilling their dreams. I think they're all connected on a fundamental level to the events that happened many centuries ago.
So I guess I could see Oda thinking "I'll end Wano in 2020, then a year on Vegapunk a year on Elbaf, a year on Blackbeard, and two years to wrap everything up." But then in practice, he throws a short arc in between, Elbaf grows into something much bigger than he anticipated because he can't help but introduce 50 new characters, and during the final war, he just goes all out drawing everything he wants to draw - because why not? Everything at that point is a victory lap.
-
There's some kind of math disconnect going on here from one of us, and I'm not sure which of us it is, so I'm just gonna let it go.
I think this is all going to be shorter than we expect however, minks going wild THIS early in the fight and clearing the table by removing Orochi, however temporarily, and having the scabbards already get their unified moment, and the sheer existence of Yamato and Oden's journal allowing for some narrative shortcuts, speak of Oda delivering highlights sooner than later.
SOMETHING in Oda's master plan doesn't match what we as an audience expect. I never believed five years, and even he can't possibly have believed it, but even eight years was going to be crimping unless there was some kind of narrative shortcut he had in mind for something.
Funny, I got a different impression from the sulong thing, which is that Oda is rushing… Act 3. He wants to have the minks and the alliance be crushed already so we can more to the final fights.
So I expect Onigashima to last 10, maybe 15 more chapters, then we can see Vivi/Sabo stuff, and then we can move to the actual climax of Wano arc. Which I think last at least another 30 chapters including the epilogue.
And that's if Oda rushes it like he usually does. But to make it considerably shorter he needs to take the pacing up eleven which would make it insatisfactory. He just created 3 calamities and 6 tobiroppos to fight the good guys, those people need on-panel fights at least, even if it's one chapter for each. Then we have Kaidou and Big Mom, flashbacks and... yeah.
Edit: actually looking at newer posts it doesn't seem like you deviate from my numbers too much, lol.
-
@Vongola_Boss_XI:
Maybe it comes down to difference in interpretation of one point. I don't really get the sense here that Oda is anxious to be done with One Piece. At least not sufficiently so that he would cut corners or drop plot-lines.
He's gone from doing 48 chapters a year and never missing during a week the magazine was coming out, to doing 38 chapters a year, and this year it's probably going to be 34 or less, very nearly a bi-weekly schedule at this point.
It doesn't matter how much he loves the story or how much he wants to tell, he is wearing down. Part of that is more responsibilities and part of that is how elaborate the series has become and part of it is just he clearly wants to have a life and spend time with his kids. But any way you slice it, he's not able or willing to give it his complete all every single week anymore. No one could after that long a continuous grind
I'd been assuming for a while that he had just switched to a 9-10 day production schedule to ease things up, since that would allign with the 3 weeks on 1 week off schedule pretty well, but the latest interview shows he's still on a 6 day production routine, so he's still pushing just as hard during any given week to do a chapter… which means his breaks are actually breaks.
If he did eventually switch to all out bi-weekly (and he's more than earned it if he does) I could see him taking another hundred chapters putting in more detail and taking another couple years, but the story is reaching its natural endpoint anyway so of course he wants to push through.
Really it'll all be easier to tell when Wano is actually done, partly because we'll then know how long Wano went... but also see where all the other pieces are falling.
-
Instead of trying to interpret or second guess things to fit where we'd want them to be, a more productive (and to me more interesting) line of conversation would be more like wow i wonder how he plans to go about that. Like imagine the crazy possibilities on the horizon if things are going to keep escalating from here into an all consuming world war with wall to wall big events that carries on until the end. My hopes are certainly up
-
I've read many of your posts already, so I know about your long "to-do" lists… and I mostly disagree that Oda will develop most of the things that you think are supposed to be brought back again in any meaningful way. Like, 100+ characters who will be properly focused? Nah.
And it's obvious that Oda will introduce new characters, and that's not a problem as long he doesn't deviate from the essential.
For example, when we look at the characters of Alabasta (aside from the villains), we have Vivi and King Cobra, two royal guards (Chaka and Pell), one rebel (Kohza) and one citzen (Toto). Only six prominent secondary characters in total, and some of them didn't get a lot of screentime. That's really tight, and yet the story was really well told. Now compare it to the crazyness that is Wano (10 scabbards, Momo, Oden, Shinobu, Yasuie, Hyougoro, Hiyori, Tama, Toko), and then there are other allies on top of it and different groups of villains.
And Alabasta was a massive arc at the time (around 60 chapters), mostly because Oda took his time with the fights. But not all arcs were that big, and some of the smaller ones (30 or less chapters) did a lot to move the story forward.
If Oda has the intention of speeding up things to get to the end, he just needs to focus on the characters that really matter on each of the remaining arcs, and keep the plot to the point instead of running around. I think 20 chapters is a good number for a shorter arc, and 50 is a good ceiling for a longer arc, so 200 chapters can do a lot.
Obviously, Oda won't meet his deadline if keeps the trend of adding too much.
You are quite literally comparing Alabasta to the potential Final Arc in One Piece. Alabasta had "6" arc related character localized to that one island. The 100+ characters for sure can be cut down to 20 major characters outside of the Strawhat pirates, but that's still far greater than any arc has accomplished.
When I say a 100+ characters, I'm talking in regards to something like Wano, which has 50+ somewhat important characters and Oda still manages to find time to incorporate them into the plot. Do i expect 100+ characters to get major focus and backstories? No. Do i expect the Final Arc and much of its setup to be monumental due to its sheer scope? Yes.
We've barely even started the battles in Wano, and its 80 chapters. Wano barely even has the character presence of multiple characters clearly not confined to an arc. And not only THAT, but we still have a bunch of desired characterization for the F6 the Beasts Pirates as a whole.
I make those lists to prove a point. Is Vegapunk not supposed to get focus after being teased for 500 chapters? Kuma? Bonney? Sabo? Vivi? Dragon? Mihawk? Weevil? Garp? Akainu? Im? Shanks? Blackbeard? Urogue? Any of those characters and their tangentially related characters (Admirals, Smoker, Koby, Gorosei, Hancock, Buggy, Moria, Crocodile), subordinates, etc? Are we really going to compare the likes of these people to Koza or Igaram from Alabasta?
Edit: My point is in a potentially 100+ chapter arc like Wano, this late in the game, Oda has YET to really tie any of those characters in a future or current plotline, outside of former villains and allies.
-
He's gone from doing 48 chapters a year and never missing during a week the magazine was coming out, to doing 38 chapters a year, and this year it's probably going to be 34 or less, very nearly a bi-weekly schedule at this point.
It doesn't matter how much he loves the story or how much he wants to tell, he is wearing down. Part of that is more responsibilities and part of that is how elaborate the series has become and part of it is just he clearly wants to have a life and spend time with his kids. But any way you slice it, he's not able or willing to give it his complete all every single week anymore. No one could after that long a continuous grind
I'd been assuming for a while that he had just switched to a 9-10 day production schedule to ease things up, since that would allign with the 3 weeks on 1 week off schedule pretty well, but the latest interview shows he's still on a 6 day production routine, so he's still pushing just as hard during any given week to do a chapter… which means his breaks are actually breaks.
If he did eventually switch to all out bi-weekly (and he's more than earned it if he does) I could see him taking another hundred chapters putting in more detail and taking another couple years, but the story is reaching its natural endpoint anyway so of course he wants to push through.
Really it'll all be easier to tell when Wano is actually done, partly because we'll then know how long Wano went... but also see where all the other pieces are falling.
I don't think we're disagreeing all that much. Oda has definitely allowed himself way more breaks and has also reduced the number of pages. I think that's great. I think we have already seen the measures he's taking to complete One Piece. He takes much more frequent breaks, reduced number of pages, etc.
Oda already started to accelerate the pace from Punk Hazard through Wano. He has increased the density of each chapter, reduced time consuming things like battles, etc.
And even so, his arcs are still very long.
I'm saying that I think there are a limited number of story arcs left, but that they will likely exceed Oda's expectations. I think he's more likely to take more breaks than skip things entirely. And the evidence is really the manga itself. If he were so anxious to end the series, there have been a lot of characters and events in Wano he could have skipped entirely or spent way less time on.
-
Edit: I always tell this to my friends that even if One Piece were to end tomorrow or if Oda decides to quit, I have zero feelings of negativity towards that.
The fact that it has reached this point and became what it is, is nothing short of a miracle. Just look at all the manga that has failed to pass a certain point in maintaining their quality as obvious signs the author has burnt out and died inside.
I might be a bit dramatic here but I have great and boundless respect for him as a fan but also have an understanding for him as a fellow human being.Same here. I don't have any negative feelings towards Oda if he rushes the ending of OP, he made my favorite story ever and he did it by having an insane work ethic that I don't wish for my worst enemy. At some point he deserves a rest. If he annaunced that he would stop publishing for 1 or 2 years I wouldn't even mind.
That said, if he does rush OP too much, I'll forgive Oda, but still think Part 2 of OP was a missed opportunity and be sad that we couldn't get something better.
-
@Gia:
You are quite literally comparing Alabasta to the potential Final Arc in One Piece. Alabasta had "6" arc related character localized to that one island. The 100+ characters for sure can be cut down to 20 major characters outside of the Strawhat pirates, but that's still far greater than any arc has accomplished.
I'm not comparing Alabasta with the final arc of One Piece. I'm comparing Alabasta with Wano, just for the sake of showing that reducing the amount of unnecessary side characters drastically decrease the size of the arc (and take into account that in Alabasta there was no offscreen or rushed pacing like in Wano).
I brought up Alabasta because any of the arcs before the final arc (like Elbaf) don't need to have a ton of characters. Only the essential.
As for the final war itself, it could be much quicker than you expect. Marineford was 30 chapters long, and most of the big names of the manga we had met before were there. And, honestly, I think most of the final war will with the allies will be on the background while the Strawhats and the villains get the focus.
We've barely even started the battles in Wano, and its 80 chapters. Wano barely even has the character presence of multiple characters clearly not confined to an arc. And not only THAT, but we still have a bunch of desired characterization for the F6 the Beasts Pirates as a whole.
And that's why I'm saying that Oda probably intends to avoid bloating future arcs like he did with Wano and Dressrosa. He should have learned his lesson. Or not. But if he wants to wrap things up, that's what he should aim to do.
I make those lists to prove a point. Is Vegapunk not supposed to get focus after being teased for 500 chapters? Kuma? Bonney? Sabo? Vivi? Dragon? Mihawk? Weevil? Garp? Akainu? Im? Shanks? Blackbeard? Urogue? Any of those characters and their tangentially related characters (Admirals, Smoker, Koby, Gorosei, Hancock, Buggy, Moria, Crocodile), subordinates, etc? Are we really going to compare the likes of these people to Koza or Igaram from Alabasta?
Of course most of these characters are important, but also most of their plotlines are intertwined and directly related to the natural path of the endgame, so the same batch of chapters can resolve their role in the story together. And as I said before, a focused arc can do a lot to flesh out these characters in a short amount of time as long as the writing is tight.
We've seen many times throughout OP some sequences of chapters which were packed with content.
-
I'm not comparing Alabasta with the final arc of One Piece. I'm comparing Alabasta with Wano, just for the sake of showing that reducing the amount of unnecessary side characters drastically decrease the size of the arc (and take into account that in Alabasta there was no offscreen or rushed pacing like in Wano).
I brought up Alabasta because any of the arcs before the final arc (like Elbaf) don't need to have a ton of characters. Only the essential.
This is fine but still doesn't tackle the issue of having tons of named important characters with teased plotlines. I don't expect Elbaf to be as stuffed as, lets say, Wano. But that still leaves further plotlines unaddressed either in an unknown arc or the final war.
As for the final war itself, it could be much quicker than you expect. Marineford was 30 chapters long, and most of the big names of the manga we had met before were there. And, honestly, I think most of the final war will with the allies will be on the background while the Strawhats and the villains get the focus.
Marineford was 30 chapters to illustrate a "preview" of how small Luffy was on the battlefield. As much as people don't like to admit, Marineford did virtually nothing in tying up character plotlines SAVE for Ace and Whitebeard, who both were killed by the end. Here's a list of things it did do:
- Introduce and teased Akainu.
- Teased the strengths of Kizaru, Aokiji, Garp and Sengoku
- Teased the powers and strengths of Marco, Vista and Joz (the first of which is now getting additional payoff in Wano)
- Teased Whitebeards power (which was inherited by Blackbeard)
- Teased Jinbe, Mihawk, Hancock, Kuma and Doflamingo
- Teased Blackbeard's entire new crew
- Teased the fact that more ID prisoners escaped from Level 6
- Teased the WG's influence on the Shichibukai and dissociation from the Marines, as well as silhouetted members
- Teased the prototype Pacifista
- Teased Shanks and his influence
- Teased the Final War as an ominous warning from Whitebeard to Blackbeard
and more. It was a 30 chapter "preview" as to what we could potentially expect in the future. And just to prove that point:
- Doflamingo was a future threat that was dealt with in a 100 chapter arc
- The Pacifista are becoming relevant/related again due to Sentoumaru's comments at Sabaody and Vegapunk's increased presence with the SSG
- Blackbeard constantly receiving focus of building power
- The Shichibukai losing their status
- The WG having increased prevalence overall (CP-0, Im)
- Marco returning in Wano
- 2 New Admirals; Aokiji doing something mysterious with Blackbeard
- Jinbe is now Luffy's crewmate
- Kuma is now becoming highly central to an incident with Sabo and the Revo's
and so on.
And that's why I'm saying that Oda probably intends to avoid bloating future arcs like he did with Wano and Dressrosa. He should have learned his lesson. Or not. But if he wants to wrap things up, that's what he should aim to do.
This is a hopeful assumption unfortunately. Just for the record, I'd want this too if it meant getting every plot point addressed.
Of course most of these characters are important, but also most of their plotlines are intertwined and directly related to the natural path of the endgame, so the same batch of chapters can resolve their role in the story together. And as I said before, a focused arc can do a lot to flesh out these characters in a short amount of time as long as the writing is tight.
We've seen many times throughout OP some sequences of chapters which were packed with content.
Refer to my Marineford comment above. Marineford had way more questions than answers. Putting things together is not the same as actually resolving storylines and ending them. You have (at least) 10 Main Character's plotlines to finish along with their dreams, then you have however many other plotlines that become central to that final arc.
This will take time, and will very likely be the biggest arc in the series by far, which is customary of most manga and their final arcs.
-
Marineford arc was a result of a lot of buildup from it's preceding arcs. That's why it didn't need to be that long in chapter count. It also, as Gia said, served as a sample for the future. It introduced more newer threads than to close existing threads. This is still happening in the last few arcs. This is why I don't believe the wanting to end in 5-6 years. Then, to add the Corona breaks, this all seems less likely.
How do you deal with the rivals like Law, Kid and Koby. Just fast track their narratives? I don't think placing Koby in this special group or adding this mystique to Law's role post alliance is consistent with fast tracking the rivals. I didn't even bring up Smoker who is more of an unknown than the 3 mentioned.
This was just concerning the rival aspect and not even all the rivals have been mentioned. Wasn't it "4-5 years", last year? Why is it still the same 4-5 years this year?
-
How do you deal with the rivals like Law, Kid and Koby. Just fast track their narratives? I don't think placing Koby in this special group or adding this mystique to Law's role post alliance is consistent with fast tracking the rivals. I didn't even bring up Smoker who is more of an unknown than the 3 mentioned.
Law and Kid are being dealt with this arc. Once Luffy is the one that can beat Kaidou and they just aren't, they're gonna go "yeah he's the one."
Smoker is basically handled, he respects the strawhats at this point and owes them multiple times over. He's not serious competetion for them anymore, his issue now is fixing the marines and Warlord systemm… which hey, Fujitora took steps forward with.
.
And Koby is never going to catch up to be a serious rival in the course of the current narrative. Epilogue maybe.This was just concerning the rival aspect and not even all the rivals have been mentioned. Wasn't it "4-5 years", last year? Why is it still the same 4-5 years this year?
It was "5 years to go" a year ago. It's "4.5" years now. Not a full year of progress but still progress.
No one ever believed the five number, but his intent is clear.
You guys are all assuming that every thread that currently exists is going to remain relevant or get reasonable screentime. Marco left a note to give to Luffy for when they meet eventually while Marco does a thing… and that ended up being a thread Oda didn't want to actually spend time on so he wrote it off as a gag... rather than just something he never should have introduced in the first place. Or everything with Orochi! Yeah he's not dead and will likely get up to do SOMETHING still for the scabbards to deal with, but after all his buildup, his power and control were effectively wiped out in a single panel. Now, when he inevitably gets back up, he's down to just a mminor subplot that Kinemon alone can handle, rather than a major plot that needs coordination to get around to. There are a LOT of things that we would assume need weeks or months to cover properly, but can easily be done in a panel. Not the extent we hope and dream, clearly, but still covered well enough for a checklist.
And there are things that can expedite matters. Vegapunk, Dragon, Shanks, even Yamato with Oden's journal, can all hand plot developments over on a silver platter that skip a lot of steps. And things can happen off cammera or just through dialogue, like Blackbeard attacking and wiping out the revos, or most of the events of the Reverie. And there are so, so many thigns that can just fold into "the world has gone crazy, war is on, that thing that was important can wait now."
No epic story ever covers EVERY plot threat and ties EVERY loose end, you have to leave some things open and let some side characters go. Its just the nature of stories.
-
@Gia:
marineford
marineford
Marineford did more than just open new questions… but, aside from that, more importantly, answering a question doesn't need to take more time than asking it.
So Marineford took 30 chapters also introducing some ideas ans stuff? Sure. Then the final war may take 30~50 chapters finishing those (and other) ideas and stuff. It's a different frame that can be dealt through a similar amount of time.
-
Now I'm thinking there is a good chance Oda originally expected the strawhats to go to Lodestar and then find out about the Road Poneglyphs, and after Dressrosa happened and lasted a whopping 100 chapters, he went and made that part in the Zou arc where the dukes straight up tell the strawhats about it so they can skip straight to the last part, so we can have one less island.
As such, I don't expect to see Lodestar at all. It doesn't seem to have a plot relevance, tbh.
-
I think we as fans can tend to think we know or understand far more than we should genuinely be able to claim. Like at this point it's all the way down to fans using their assumptions and expectations to discredit direct word of god. I mean at which point does it become ridiculous to try to and tell an author what he can and can't do?
-
Law and Kid are being dealt with this arc. Once Luffy is the one that can beat Kaidou and they just aren't, they're gonna go "yeah he's the one."
Smoker is basically handled, he respects the strawhats at this point and owes them multiple times over. He's not serious competetion for them anymore, his issue now is fixing the marines and Warlord systemm… which hey, Fujitora took steps forward with.
.
And Koby is never going to catch up to be a serious rival in the course of the current narrative. Epilogue maybe.Koby is not the same kind of rival that Law and Kid are. wouldn't put Smoker in the category of any of them either. Koby becoming a great Marine and finding + striving in his own justice would suffice.
Also, you really see Kid giving in this early? That would be a really indicator for me of done. I just don't see it as likely. I thank you for bringing that up. Now I will be watching for anything close to that with Law.
Smoker and Kid just don't come off as that submissive. Neither does Law, but he is more likely than them.
It was "5 years to go" a year ago. It's "4.5" years now. Not a full year of progress but still progress.
No one ever believed the five number, but his intent is clear.
I'm just going by Sandman's trans. It looks like it can be interpreted as 4.5, but I didn't see anyone but you make that distinction. i get it tho.
You guys are all assuming that every thread that currently exists is going to remain relevant or get reasonable screentime. Marco left a note to give to Luffy for when they meet eventually while Marco does a thing… and that ended up being a thread Oda didn't want to actually spend time on so he wrote it off as a gag... rather than just something he never should have introduced in the first place. Or everything with Orochi! Yeah he's not dead and will likely get up to do SOMETHING still for the scabbards to deal with, but after all his buildup, his power and control were effectively wiped out in a single panel. Now, when he inevitably gets back up, he's down to just a mminor subplot that Kinemon alone can handle, rather than a major plot that needs coordination to get around to. There are a LOT of things that we would assume need weeks or months to cover properly, but can easily be done in a panel. Not the extent we hope and dream, clearly, but still covered well enough for a checklist.
I'm not assuming. I'm going by the last 3 arcs and waiting to see what he does with rivalries, crew progression and the other major aspects of the story. Should I ignore all of that and just take his word for it? Is it an issue to question all of it and rely on the immediate story to prove him right or wrong? This is why I question if people are fatigued or afraid if the story can lose quality. I'm not assuming. I'm questioning things, while most are just giving into a running comment when the writer is saying "he would like to". The fact that it isn't "it will end" and the story and covid are actual obstacles, justifies my skepticism.
And there are things that can expedite matters. Vegapunk, Dragon, Shanks, even Yamato with Oden's journal, can all hand plot developments over on a silver platter that skip a lot of steps. And things can happen off cammera or just through dialogue, like Blackbeard attacking and wiping out the revos, or most of the events of the Reverie. And there are so, so many thigns that can just fold into "the world has gone crazy, war is on, that thing that was important can wait now."
No epic story ever covers EVERY plot threat and ties EVERY loose end, you have to leave some things open and let some side characters go. Its just the nature of stories.
I'm not saying that everything will be covered. I've used the Kubo example multiple times and considered the quicker facilitation method. That's how much is left open. The fact that even if you dismiss things as rushed or doesn't need to be covered, there still is a lot left. Then there's the fact that even in the quicker pace of Punk Hazard to the present arc, there is more things being repurposed or newly added, then given closure. No one is unaware of Jinbe officially joining finally as dragged out. That says a lot. That isn't the only piece of evidence either
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
I think we as fans can tend to think we know or understand far more than we should genuinely be able to claim. Like at this point it's all the way down to fans using their assumptions and expectations to discredit direct word of god. I mean at which point does it become ridiculous to try to and tell an author what he can and can't do?
This God's work is disagreeing with his whispers to the worshippers. To be skeptical of it isn't taboo.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Marineford did more than just open new questions… but, aside from that, more importantly, answering a question doesn't need to take more time than asking it.
So Marineford took 30 chapters also introducing some ideas ans stuff? Sure. Then the final war may take 30~50 chapters finishing those (and other) ideas and stuff. It's a different frame that can be dealt through a similar amount of time.
So, you feel that more was given closure than repurposed or newly added in that arc? I've taken the deep dive into this topic before and it is fun.
-
Marineford did more than just open new questions… but, aside from that, more importantly, answering a question doesn't need to take more time than asking it.
So Marineford took 30 chapters also introducing some ideas ans stuff? Sure. Then the final war may take 30~50 chapters finishing those (and other) ideas and stuff. It's a different frame that can be dealt through a similar amount of time.
I mean, unless I'm just not thinking clearly, Marineford pretty much only resolves two character plotlines. Am I wrong? The rest literally was setup for the future. There are even other things I didn't bring up, like Sabo being teased or Law's special relationship with Luffy.
And "answering" a question is precisely the problem isn't it? If it was that easy, then CP-9, Dressrosa, WCI and Wano wouldn't be 80-100+ chapters a piece. Unless Oda fundamentally changes the way he writes and alters his pace, why is anyone expecting it to be any different for any future arc? You have to be "hopeful" that this changes over the single comment he makes per year about there being 5 years left.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
I think we as fans can tend to think we know or understand far more than we should genuinely be able to claim. Like at this point it's all the way down to fans using their assumptions and expectations to discredit direct word of god. I mean at which point does it become ridiculous to try to and tell an author what he can and can't do?
I'm only using past examples of Oda's habits as well has his consistent plot teasing to prove my point, but I digress lol. At this point it's just better to wait and see how Wano itself even manages to finish. It seems like we'll be here at least for another year but maybe an Act-break helps us have more discussion on the ending being "close" or not.
-
And "answering" a question is precisely the problem isn't it? If it was that easy, then CP-9, Dressrosa, WCI and Wano wouldn't be 80-100+ chapters a piece. Unless Oda fundamentally changes the way he writes and alters his pace, why is anyone expecting it to be any different for any future arc? You have to be "hopeful" that this changes over the single comment he makes per year about there being 5 years left.
But that's exactly what I've been saying all this time.
Oda is not taking this long because "answering" takes 80~100+ chapters, but because he's been "wasting" time with a lot of unnecessary additions, like 3x or 4x more secondary characters than he needs for the arc, or even telling the story while taking too many roundabouts with characters running around and coming back to point zero. And then the "answer" usually comes in a few packed chapters amidst an ocean of extra stuff.
And as I've been saying, if he keeps this trend, then he'll obviously need much more than 200 chapters for the remaining arcs. But if Oda is resolute to finish in around 5 years, like he's been claiming over and over and over again, then he just needs to be more pragmatic. That doesn't mean ignoring important pending plotlines, but just removing the "fat".
Will he be able to restrain himself? Only time will tell, but I don't see why people are so adamant that he won't if he's willing to.
-
The Oda who was working on Dresserossa isn't the Oda that publicly declared three times now he's trying to wrap it up. That had the Kanjuro showdown off camera.
None of us believe he'll do it as fast as he says… but that he's saying it, and so repeatedly, does showcase some serious intent. For all the we can speculate and guess at what comes and what makes perfect sense given what we know... we don't know what we don't know.
Oda's got SOMETHING in mind to mix it up and keep the end of the series from being completely predictable. And he's gotta do soemthing to keep the energy up after we've had two emperors at once.
Now I'm thinking there is a good chance Oda originally expected the strawhats to go to Lodestar and then find out about the Road Poneglyphs, and after Dressrosa happened and lasted a whopping 100 chapters, he went and made that part in the Zou arc where the dukes straight up tell the strawhats about it so they can skip straight to the last part, so we can have one less island.
As such, I don't expect to see Lodestar at all. It doesn't seem to have a plot relevance, tbh.
That's kind of a perfect example. Like, Oda just flat out gave them one of the keys early and told them "yeah, the final island doesn't matter, skip that step and all the backtracking it'll require." Like, he didn't have to do a X marks the spot thing or 4 keys at all, but he wanted to… and just gave them one so they could do it on the journey instead. He clearly still liked the idea and wanted to do it and have a reason Raftel couldn't be reached, but it also... could have been an actual surprise big treasure hunt they realize they have to go through at the end just when they thought they were done. It would have been a big twist and added some more adventures at the end and been a surprise the readers weren't expecting and instead... its just sort of gift wrapped and circumvented.
Its the sort of plot point that doesn't make any sense to introduce the way he did, rather than the way that would have been an organic surprise... but doing it that way cuts two years off in a single chapter.
Heck, things like making Luffy an Emporer BEFORE Wano instead of after also feels like shortcutting a few steps, get that declaration out of the way so that while the bounties will all increase, that particular shift in the world doesn't get in the way of the other upcoming shifts.
-
But that's exactly what I've been saying all this time.
Oda is not taking this long because "answering" takes 80~100+ chapters, but because he's been "wasting" time with a lot of unnecessary additions, like 3x or 4x more secondary characters than he needs for the arc, or even telling the story while taking too many roundabouts with characters running around and coming back to point zero. And then the "answer" usually comes in a few packed chapters amidst an ocean of extra stuff.
And as I've been saying, if he keeps this trend, then he'll obviously need much more than 200 chapters for the remaining arcs. But if Oda is resolute to finish in around 5 years, like he's claiming over and over and over again, then he just needs to be more pragmatic. That doesn't mean ignoring important pending plotlines, but just removing the "fat".
Will he be able to restrain himself? Only time will tell, but I don't see why people are so adamant that he won't if he's willing to.
But this is totally not true at all.Add in all of the major characters and plotlines that still need to be addressed and all of them amount to something way bigger and way larger than anything Dressrosa or Wano have done on scale, even with their apparent "unnecessary additions".
I'm also being confused at where the line is being drawn between unnecessary and necessary tbh. 5 of 9 scabbards were introduced before Wano even started. The supernova were all characters before Wano started. Kaido realistically only has like 9 actual crew members outside of the Numbers, and the amount of headliners was done to realistically match the idea of both BM and Kaido having literal armies as crews. All of this has helped characterize, populate and structure an arc. Arcs are not personal anymore like Thriller Bark or CP-9, they've gotten way more grandiose.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
The Oda who was working on Dresserossa isn't the Oda that publicly declared three times now he's trying to wrap it up. That had the Kanjuro showdown off camera.
None of us believe he'll do it as fast as he says… but that he's saying it, and so repeatedly, does showcase some serious intent. For all the we can speculate and guess at what comes and what makes perfect sense given what we know... we don't know what we don't know.
Oda's got SOMETHING in mind to mix it up and keep the end of the series from being completely predictable. And he's gotta do soemthing to keep the energy up after we've had two emperors at once.
That's kind of a perfect example. Like, Oda just flat out gave them one of the keys early and told them "yeah, the final island doesn't matter, skip that step and all the backtracking it'll require." Like, he didn't have to do a X marks the spot thing or 4 keys at all, but he wanted to... and just gave them one so they could do it on the journey instead. He clearly still liked the idea and wanted to do it and have a reason Raftel couldn't be reached, but it also... could have been an actual surprise big treasure hunt they realize they have to go through at the end just when they thought they were done. It would have been a big twist and added some more adventures at the end and been a surprise the readers weren't expecting and instead... its just sort of gift wrapped and circumvented.
Its the sort of plot point that doesn't make any sense to introduce the way he did, rather than the way that would have been an organic surprise... but doing it that way cuts two years off in a single chapter.
Heck, things like making Luffy an Emporer BEFORE Wano instead of after also feels like shortcutting a few steps, get that declaration out of the way so that while the bounties will all increase, that particular shift in the world doesn't get in the way of the other upcoming shifts.
But thats literally not what Inurashi is saying there. He still says they should travel to Lodestar and continue their journey there. Though, yes, it was a means to allow Luffy and crew to obtain at least 3 Road Poneglyphs before getting to that point.
Lodestar is still a fundamentally important location they should visit. We have no idea exactly what other revelations are found out there. I also think we are speaking way too soon about the fate of Kanjuro (and subsequently Orochi)
-
So, you feel that more was given closure than repurposed or newly added in that arc? I've taken the deep dive into this topic before and it is fun.
Most of the Marineford is going from point A to point B and showing many clashes to create the atmosphere of the event. Besides that, the war was centered around Ace and Whitebeard, basically doing most of their introduction and development through some capital chapters.
Some new ideas were introduced for the future, but those usually happen in one page here, another page there, and sometimes a chapter focused on Teach or Akainu or Shanks.
-
Oda is simply writing his story in a way were he can put the characters where he needs to geographically when he needs to. By telling the crew about the Road Poneglpyhs before Lodestar, Luffy doesn't have to repeat the same headless chicken journey Roger and many other pirates have had by reaching the end then looking for Laugh Tale. That's even also assuming Luffy will get the 4th Road Poneglyph exactly where he needs to before the end. They HAVE to keep sailing in that direction after Wano anyway.
By doing this, we can realistically have the crew find Laugh Tale they adventure to the end of the New World, in a way that feels organic.
-
@Gia:
But thats literally not what Inurashi is saying there. He still says they should travel to Lodestar and continue their journey there. Though, yes, it was a means to allow Luffy and crew to obtain at least 3 Road Poneglyphs before getting to that point.
Lodestar is still a fundamentally important location they should visit. We have no idea exactly what other revelations are found out there. I also think we are speaking way too soon about the fate of Kanjuro (and subsequently Orochi)
Looking at the chapter, Inurashi doesn't say they have to go to Lodestar, he just tells Nami that "they haven't lost their way, and should continue on". That is very ambiguous and could mean anything. Sort of like "keep progressing and the adventure will take you to your goal eventually".
And if the strawhats do feel like going to Lodestar at some point, there are some ways Oda could convince them to give up on that and rush to Laugh Tale, such as Blackbeard finding a way to get there first (or bluffing about that so he can follow the strawhats).
The important thing is that Lodestar is no longer mandatory, and the plot won't lose anything if whatever relevations were reserved to it are moved to Laugh Tale. And since Oda clearly wants to end it as fast as he can, I don't see him doing it, unless Lodestar just happens to be the setting of something else he must do (i. e. Shanks, Vegapunk, Revolutionaires arc).
-
Most of the Marineford is going from point A to point B and showing many clashes to create the atmosphere of the event. Besides that, the war was centered around Ace and Whitebeard, basically doing most of their introduction and development through some capital chapters.
Some new ideas were introduced for the future, but those usually happen in one page here, another page there, and sometimes a chapter focused on Teach or Akainu or Shanks.
It's not about how many panels or pages it took to introduce those things. It's where they meet their end. We're still learning about WB's 2 crews. Rocks is ongoing. Ace met Yamato. Marco is here to help. Bakkin and Weevil are not his baby mama and kid. Why are they even using that narrative when Weevil is tough on his own? There's purpose in that. WB's home was used as an example of a place that can't provide the tribute.
The chase for Luffy was strengthened when his father was revealed. Crocodile got something out of the war and his role is a mystery. The war introduced Sabo and even those Goa kids were watching Caesar's exhibition. Oda gave us a new big brother and was dramatic about it. I feel like i'm the only one who questions why Mr Relentless (Sakazuki) came to a halt when Shanks arrived, but was so aggressive with WB. Then that becomes even more evident when Shanks shows up before the Gorosei. There's a reason why Mr. Relentless stopped before Sengoku spoke and Sengoku agreed to Shanks request. It can be assumed that it's just "Shank's crew is strong" but that isn't the case when he can appear before the Gorosei and speak.
I'm not even getting to Buggy, Jinbe, and other threads that were repurposed or newly ushered into this arc.
The story contradicts the 4-5 years statement in every way. Imagine not being a skeptic because Oda is God as one stated earlier. Some are saying that being skeptical is wrong in a sense, aren't giving me anything to change my mind. I understand why they aren't skeptical tho. It's fatigue and fear or the story going bad, so they end up believing it.
I think that is the intended feeling that Oda wants. some confidence from fatigued and fearful readers that they will get that ending quickly. He should say it with his chest tho. I need a "it will finish in 2024". Stop pump faking Oda. All this says to me is that Oda is aware of the mindset of some of his readers, which is a good thing for a writer, but can easily be a slippery slope.
-
@Gia:
But this is totally not true at all.Add in all of the major characters and plotlines that still need to be addressed and all of them amount to something way bigger and way larger than anything Dressrosa or Wano have done on scale, even with their apparent "unnecessary additions".
Well, wait and see, I guess.
I'm also being confused at where the line is being drawn between unnecessary and necessary tbh. 5 of 9 scabbards were introduced before Wano even started. The supernova were all characters before Wano started. Kaido realistically only has like 9 actual crew members outside of the Numbers, and the amount of headliners was done to realistically match the idea of both BM and Kaido having literal armies as crews. All of this has helped characterize, populate and structure an arc. Arcs are not personal anymore like Thriller Bark or CP-9, they've gotten way more grandiose.
That's a complicated discussion, and very subjective, and I don't have the energy right now. But that's why I made that comparison with Alabasta talking about only the local characters as a point of reference. In Alabasta, Oda kept it to the minimum that was sufficient to make that story work, while in Wano he goes much further the necessary.
Obviously, Wano's bigger in scale, but Oda extrapolates the scale itself.
If Oda had written Alabasta like he writes Wano, then we would have Vivi, her cute little sister, her evil uncle, six major royal guards infiltrating Baroque Works, five leaders of the rebel force alongside Kohza, Toto and Tata in Yuba, local friends in Rainbase and Nanohana, and then we would discover a new cast of side characters once the crew arrived in Alubarna.
-
Looking at the chapter, Inurashi doesn't say they have to go to Lodestar, he just tells Nami that "they haven't lost their way, and should continue on". That is very ambiguous and could mean anything. Sort of like "keep progressing and the adventure will take you to your goal eventually".
And if the strawhats do feel like going to Lodestar at some point, there are some ways Oda could convince them to give up on that and rush to Laugh Tale, such as Blackbeard finding a way to get there first (or bluffing about that so he can follow the strawhats).
The important thing is that Lodestar is no longer mandatory, and the plot won't lose anything if whatever relevations were reserved to it are moved to Laugh Tale. And since Oda clearly wants to end it as fast as he can, I don't see him doing it, unless Lodestar just happens to be the setting of something else he must do (i. e. Shanks, Vegapunk, Revolutionaires arc).
Except read the other portions of Inuarashi's dialogue more carefully, he says: " Normally…it is when you reach the log's end point that you come to a realization...about the mystery of the ancient writing on the ponegliffs! And the civilization that gave birth to them..and the existence of Laugh Tale, the final, unseen island!! Crocus was a crewmate of the king of the pirates–one of those who knows all. He would not lie about that unless he disliked yougara. Don't worry. You are not on the wrong path. Continue on your way!!"
There is clearly more information to be had about the Ancient Kingdom and how the poneglyph's came to be that is not strictly found on the Rio Poneglyphs and the true history. Right here Inu is suggesting that Crocus was not wrong to send them to (the final island on grandline) and that their journey is not the wrong path.
At this point, Wano will only end with 3 poneglyphs. This means they have to at least keep heading towards Lodestar for at least one more island. This could be Elbaf, or it could be a totally different Island. Essentially the options are:
- Elbaf is next, and it has the 4th Road Poneglyph
- Another unknown island is next, and it has the 4th RP
- Elbaf is next, and it does not have the 4th RP, indicating they must travel further (presumably towards another island or Lodestar).
- Another unknown island is next, and it does not have the 4th RP, indicating the must travel further (presumably towards Elbaf or Lodestar).
- Marco knows the direct location of the 4th RP seeing as it disappeared from Fishman Island, WB's territory (this could help the point that Oda is increasing the pace).
But then as you mention, there could additionally be some plot related reason Lodestar becomes important in the future, on top of the pure fact that it has information there we don't know about yet, like Inu describes. If it talks about the Ancient Kingdom, thats already more information than we are privy to.
--- Update From New Post Merge ---
Well, wait and see, I guess.
That's a complicated discussion, and very subjective, and I don't have the energy right now. But that's why I made that comparison with Alabasta talking about only the local characters as a point of reference. In Alabasta, Oda kept it to the minimum that was sufficient to make that story work, while in Wano he goes much further the necessary.
Obviously, Wano's bigger in scale, but Oda extrapolates the scale itself.
If Oda had written Alabasta like he writes Wano, then we would have Vivi, her cute little sister, her evil uncle, six major royal guards infiltrating Baroque Works, five leaders of the rebel force alongside Kohza, Toto and Tata in Yuba, local friends in Rainbase and Nanohana, and then we would discover a new cast of side characters once the crew arrived in Alubarna.
Touche, and I agree. All we can do is truly wait until we know more. Hopefully the end of Act 3 is coming soon and we can at least learn of the status of some characters before being thrown into all of the battles for the remainder of the arc.
-
The crew isn't ready. 1 step at a time.
!
-
Here's my theoretical roadmap:
Wano: 50-60 more chapters, between the alliance being defeated, moving to Wano, getting an Yamato/Kaido flashback, grand fleet appearing and beating some fodder, all fights (flying 6, calamities, and both yonkou), and an epilogue.
Vegapunk Arc: 30-40 chapters. Will happen at some WG place. Solve the Vivi/Sabo issue (possibly re-recruit Vivi to the crew), solve Kuma/Bonney plot, introduce the new pacifista models and whatever weapon the WG has, possibly introduce Green Bull.
Elbaf Arc: 20-30 chapters. Shanks appears and challenges Luffy to a davy back fight for the strawhat and the last poneglyph. Zoro fights Mihawk. Possible Weevil resolution.
Laugh Tale: 40-50 chapters. Crew finds the way there, runs into BB pirates. BB/Rocks flashback. All 1v1 fights between the two crews. They find the One Piece. Joy Boy/Void Century flashback.
Final War: 80-120 chapters. All allies, ancient weapons and pirates come together, world government shows everything they got. Extended final fighs against all admirals, Imu and maybe some new Super Pacifista. Long epilogue showing what everyone is doing after the end.
That's 260 chapters on average, or ending in Chapter ~1250. Using the current rate of 38 chapters a year and assuming the pandemic doesn't last much longer, that gives us a little under 7 years. Which is just in time for One Piece's 30 year aniversary.
-
Even if the pandemic isn't that much of an obstacle anymore, Oda has already been on a trend when it comes to the decrease of chapters per year. He slowly went from 40-42 a year to averaging 39. I don't see more than 45 chapters left in Wano.
Unless Yamato is going to be a Momo retainer, why does he even exist? A SH? In the latter half of the arc? You're really trying to end it by 2024 there Oda. Add that onto the "small mountain"
-
I think I saw someone posting a table that shows Oda's number of chapters a year was almost constant from 2013 to 2019, actually.
As for Yamato, maybe he's not a SH, but he certainly seems to be a major ally. He's appeared every chapter since his introduction.
-
@Gia:
I'm only using past examples of Oda's habits as well has his consistent plot teasing to prove my point, but I digress lol. At this point it's just better to wait and see how Wano itself even manages to finish. It seems like we'll be here at least for another year but maybe an Act-break helps us have more discussion on the ending being "close" or not.
From where i'm sitting the running implication seems to be that the fans have come to understand the story requirements to a higher degree than the man writing it. I mean to argue a checklist for why it can't be done in reply to an author quote claiming the opposite surely implies a belief that Oda is not sufficiently aware of these things and need reminding and guiding from the sidelines of where it has to go. To me it feels too conceited for fans to think that they can predict and calculate an to them unknown story trajectory to a better degree than the author based on whatever bits and pieces they've picked up by reading it.
-
I did something like that last year May. I need to update it. I don't see it falling under 38 on average anytime soon.
2010 - 40
2011 – 42
2012 – 651-693 43
13 – 694-732 39
14 -733-771 39
15 – 772-810 39
16 – 811-850 40
17 – 851-889 39
18 – 890-928 39
19 – 929-now@wolwood
Being skeptical of a comment doesn't equate to thinking you know or have more insight than the writer. If that is the only way that you view skepticism, then that further proves that you want it to be true for some reason. Every statement about skeptics from you shows a sign of irritation that some can even question your God Oda. -
I'm looking forward to all the lists people will make of the things that were left unanswered, one One Piece ends.
-
From where i'm sitting the running implication seems to be that the fans have come to understand the story requirements to a higher degree than the man writing it. I mean to argue a checklist for why it can't be done in reply to an author quote claiming the opposite surely implies a belief that Oda is not sufficiently aware of these things and need reminding and guiding from the sidelines of where it has to go. To me it feels too conceited for fans to think that they can predict and calculate an to them unknown story trajectory to a better degree than the author based on whatever bits and pieces they've picked up by reading it.
I don't think it's at all conceited to not just take it at face value. Oda promised his wife that he would end One Piece in 5 years, 15 years ago according to the interview. I'll say again, I think it comes down to two factors:
-
I think Oda is saying, to a degree, what he believes readers want to hear. One Piece has gone on a long time and people now frequently ask when it will end. I don't think Oda wants to send the message that he's just going to go on forever, that there's no end in sight. Especially with series like Demon Slayer capturing younger reader's attention. It's harder and harder to get new readers to invest the time to catch up. So I think Oda feels an obligation to his readers to promise the end is coming, that he's working toward the conclusion. It seems more like an overly optimistic answer you give your parent when they ask you how long it will take to finish your homework. How much longer? I think 2-3 hours. I used to always tell my parents an unrealistically optimistic estimation so that they wouldn't be upset, even when I knew, in reality, it would take more like 6-7, maybe 8 hours.
-
Artists underestimate the time it takes to create something. Inspiration strikes. Just look at GRRM with A Song of Ice and Fire, James Cameron with Avatar. Where artists are allowed the luxury to complete a project at their own pace, if they care about that project deeply, it is almost certainly going to take longer than expected / estimated. Where projects rush is where corporate interest are involved. Where a studio or a company just needs to get a movie in theaters, a book on the shelves, even if it isn't perfect.
I just don't think it's actually going to happen in 5 years. The best laid plans (of maps and fishmen) often go awry. I think pointing out the volume of things that remain unaddressed is just meant to evidence the fact that there's a lot left on the table. No, not all of them will have dedicated arcs. Most won't. But even combining things, I don't think Oda, as an artist who really seems to enjoy writing, is very interested in rushing to the extent that these plot threads are dropped entirely.
But more than the list of things that are still out there waiting to be explored, I think we can look at the actual pacing of the manga. I really don't think Oda is rushing things along. There were a lot of narrative shortcuts he could have taken with Wano. It didn't need to take 80 chapters to get to the battle. There were a number of characters who could've been cut. Oden's flashback could have been much shorter. It wouldn't have been better, but it would've gotten the point across. I really just don't agree with the notion that he's gonna breeze past a lot of things he set up because his track record says otherwise.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
I'm looking forward to all the lists people will make of the things that were left unanswered, one One Piece ends.
Okay, but seriously, who was shooting from the other outrigger? And what do the numbers mean?
-
-
My grandchildren will be able to come to AP some day and participate in arguments on whether Carrot should have joined the crew or not.
-
The anime is handling Yasuie's death better than Oda did. Similar to how they dealt with Pedro's death. More emphasis on Toko and Yasuie's current presence in the community. Wish this was consistent.
-
@Vongola_Boss_XI:
Okay, but seriously, who was shooting from the other outrigger? And what do the numbers mean?
Was it me? :ninja: No but seriously, do you doubt that Oda wants to end the story within a certain time frame? I'm not buying the 5 years he keeps saying but I'm not expecting absolutely everything to be dealt with either.
-
@Vongola_Boss_XI:
It seems more like an overly optimistic answer you give your parent when they ask you how long it will take to finish your homework. How much longer? I think 2-3 hours. I used to always tell my parents an unrealistically optimistic estimation so that they wouldn't be upset, even when I knew, in reality, it would take more like 6-7, maybe 8 hours.
Wow, what kind of homework have you been subjected to???
-
@Vongola_Boss_XI:
Okay, but seriously, who was shooting from the other outrigger? And what do the numbers mean?
The outrigger was a crew from the black rock. Showcased in the supplementary materials on the dvd, cut for time in season 6 because they just couldn't figure out where to put it in that would flow with the story.
The numbers are the core numerical values of the Valenzetti Equation, an equation used to predict the date of human extinction. Each number represents one of the DHARMA Initiative fields of study, such as electromagnetism and psychology.Those numbers were made into a password and hatch number, and through the shenanigans of time travel, radio transmissions, pure coincidence, and bad luck, led to Hurley thinking they were cursed, but they had no such power. As well, the numbers corresponded to the chosen groups flight, seat numbers, and the dial in the lighthouse, at least some of which Jacob was privy to and influenced, and made into one of his lists. How much Jacob knew or understood about the equation is unclear, but he knew it could find the guy to replace him and help fix the cycle and save the world.
-
Oda really want to finish in 5 years that bad huh? Then it'll be less than 200 chapter to go. He sould not dragged some arc too much like Dressrosa, WCI, etc. Also, get ready for a lot of offpaneling some plot points that didn't feature Luffy.
For Elbaf thing, i bet it's just short arc and after Luffy become Pirate King. The crews go there for help with military for final war because Elbaf is the strongest military.
-
Wow, what kind of homework have you been subjected to???
My degrees were in engineering lol
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Was it me? :ninja: No but seriously, do you doubt that Oda wants to end the story within a certain time frame? I'm not buying the 5 years he keeps saying but I'm not expecting absolutely everything to be dealt with either.
I think it's a mix. I think he's being optimistic. And I'm not that far off from you probably. I don't think all the things on the checklists will be addressed in full detail, but I think everything that Oda considers important will be touched on. Generally speaking, I don't think Oda cuts things. I think he just combines them. But I do think there's a significant enough volume of important enough things that it makes the estimate unrealistic. And I think Oda probably knows that to an extent. That's why I think there's a degree of optimism (Oda wants to finish within a certain time frame and without being in the middle of writing it, thinks he can do it quickly, but the reality, when he gets there and really cares about the story, will result in those things taking longer) and I also think it's partially to tell the readers he's working toward a real goal, not just spinning his wheels.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
The outrigger was a crew from the black rock. Showcased in the supplementary materials on the dvd, cut for time in season 6 because they just couldn't figure out where to put it in that would flow with the story.
The numbers are the core numerical values of the Valenzetti Equation, an equation used to predict the date of human extinction. Each number represents one of the DHARMA Initiative fields of study, such as electromagnetism and psychology.Those numbers were made into a password and hatch number, and through the shenanigans of time travel, radio transmissions, pure coincidence, and bad luck, led to Hurley thinking they were cursed, but they had no such power. As well, the numbers corresponded to the chosen groups flight, seat numbers, and the dial in the lighthouse, at least some of which Jacob was privy to and influenced, and made into one of his lists. How much Jacob knew or understood about the equation is unclear, but he knew it could find the guy to replace him and help fix the cycle and save the world.
I had no idea about the outrigger. So that's good to know. Actually my only real lingering question from the show.
The numbers bit was sort of a joke, but I do appreciate the thorough explanation.
I actually love the ending of Lost and feel the show did a great job of wrapping up the stories it set up. I just know a lot of people feel disappointed / had lists of 'unanswered' questions. I also know a lot of people still think they were all dead the whole time. Had to explain the show to a coworker last year who hated the ending for that very reason.
-
The funny thing about Lost is MOST of its questions were actually answered by season 3… its just a lot of people weren't paying attention and its easy to lose track week to week, it flowed a lot better in marathon form.
The nuances and nitty gritty might be missed, especially when you get to the "yeah but what about this person's mother's third cousin? but basically anything it set up in the first season it fairly got to well before the end.