Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 7 - Wano)

[Cockycent]

@Solid:

That doesn't seem to be either Viz, Jbox or mangastreams translation, where did you find it?

And no, not from the wikia lmao.

regarding "when we thought there was no hope left", thats "we" as in all the people in the village, not just tama and hitetsu.

My interpretation is that since Hitetsu says she could have lived elsewhere, that means he didnt have any responsibility for her until they both were the only ones left in the village. Tama didn't stay in the village because of Hitetsu, but because of Ace. If he was her guardian prior to the incident then it wouldnt make sense for Hitetsu saying she could be staying elsewhere lol

Sure he could have still been her master prior to this, but I think it makes more sense for him to have become her master and guardian at the same time.

Oh, I thought it was from the manga that "1 year" was definitely said. You had me looking everywhere from the BM adventure to the 1st Wano ch. smh

[uniaka ikuzakas]

So we are back to either vivi joins or jimbei was the last member to join.

[IORI_17]

Wasn't written in the Vivre Card Databook (Volume 3/6/7?) that Aokiji is an ally to Blackbeard and not a titan? I remember those stating there are 10 captains excluding Blackbeard and Aokiji, with the order of their fleet being:

1. Jesus Burgess
2. Shiliew
3. Van Augur
4. Avalo Pizarro
5. Laffitte
6. Catarina Devon
7. Sanjuan Wolf
8. Vasco Shot
9. Doc Q
10. ? (should be a new member we don't know about, wheter it is a new character or someone we've already seen)

I have tried searching for a source but I can't find it, so maybe it was written in an early translation (which could have been wrong) or my memory is wrong (I remembered the third spot being the open one, so I can be mistaking Aokiji's position too). If someone has the vivre cards and can read them it would be useful, even though now I realize that would be something well known if it was written there (and I doubt Oda would reveal it in a data book)

[Solid]

@Cockycent:

Oh, I thought it was from the manga that "1 year" was definitely said. You had me looking everywhere from the BM adventure to the 1st Wano ch. smh

Ah okey lol my bad man

[Triceron]

@theackwardstation:

I agree with some of it, but not to that extent.

Carrot does need development and it'd be cool if she had conflict from which she would become more robust. But even this is controversial since not all Strawhats are driven by a concrete thematic conflict. Anyway, I don't want to make a case for Carrot by diminishing other crewmates.

Her journey is quite clearly a coming-of-age story and a quest for self-discovery. It can't get more symbolic than she dreaming to go on an adventure at sea. And she wants to be of help to others. And she looks up to others like an apprentice as even Chopper became like a big brother figure to her. All very vague, but also relatable and realistic, and a good foundating as a starting point before her character becomes ready.

More importantly, those broader concepts are now merging with another kind of self-discovery which is about her own roots and the Dawn. Pedro's last words to her tell that "someday you'll understand the true importance of keeping Luffy and his crew alive here so that their voyage can go on". Sometimes we see people missing the point of those words, because the real point is not that Carrot should merely help them, but that Carrot should understand why someday.

That's quite obviously a seed for growth if that knowledge is something that will shape her purpose in life. What we call development.

As for all the rest, Carrot doesn't lack characterization and I disagree that everything about her is paper-thin. She's shown many traits already from emotional range to different quirks. She's capable in many different aspects. She was shown bonding with different members of the crew individually (although not yet with the Dressrosa faction). I see people arguing that she's a blank slate, which is true to some extent, but not so much as to be an enigma with no build up. More importantly, her overall portrayal has been as one of the main heroes who engage in the juicy parts of a shonen series. How is that not the spotlight?

I agree with much of the sentiment here, but I still disagree in the greater context of the topic of being a crewmate. We can talk about Carrot as a character all we like, but we have to remember that all of this is to serve the greater purpose of answering the hypothetical 'Could she be next Crewmember', otherwise we are both in agreement that she is definitely a character who has her own story and development.

The issue I have is as soon as you put it in the context of a potential crewmate, she falls absolutely flat.

There have been generally two ways we've seen crewmembers treated in the past - Either they are seeded in an arc and join the crew by the end of the adventure, or they are brief additions with more to be revealed later. I would consider most of the crewmates in the first category, with Robin and Jinbe in the latter. Now Jinbe might be awkwardly fit in this since we've known him for a good 10+ years before he finally joined, but the time he's actually spent with the crew is limited, and the time that is spent in the story with him interacting with them is very well defined. He has a good connection with the crew, he's expressed a clear goal and reason to join Luffy, he's time and time again proven himself worthy and useful and has had his moments to shine. Nothing was spared in building him up to be a well-rounded character who is capable of standing amongst the rest of the crew in our mind. Same can be said of Robin, who we knew very little about at the time she joined, but every moment we had with her (prior to her joining) was important and not just as a means to carry out reactions to situations.

Carrot, on the other hand, has been with the crew for a good chunk of time, and we don't even know her baseline reason for stowing away other than 'to see the world'. That's it. It's never progressed beyond this, which is why I didn't even consider this a compelling 'coming of age' story. She's not really expressed herself in any meaningful way that shows she has any specific connection to realizing her goals. Compare this to say Usopp or Chopper's stories where they are given ample characterization and dialogue to express their needs, their worries and their aspirations. Carrot is just there, acting as though she is a crewmate but without acknowledging any formalities, and otherwise staying in the background for the majority of it. It's the opposite of the Jinbe treatment where every scene we had with him was important to his characterization. Carrot was interacting in ways that are comparable to other temporary travelling buddies, like Keimi. We could arguably say Keimi has a story and she developed her own coming-of-age story, but it has zero relevance in the context of being a potential crewmate. That is the context of how I'm describing Carrot's lack of development and lack of story.

She is only in the spotlight by association, and other than a couple times (Sulong and her idea for Mirror Luffies), she's not really presented as having the depth that we expect out of a potential crewmember. We want to have the feeling of 'Wow, about time!' when they join, not just 'Well makes sense since she's already here'. With the way that her personal story has developed so far (which is very little IMO), it's hard to get a feel for her role in the bigger picture. She's been so blank that the lack of story ends up being what defines her. It's hard to root for a character that we've seen for so long but still know absolutely nothing about.

[Monquito]

@uniaka:

So we are back to either vivi joins or jimbei was the last member to join.

I'm starting to like Deicide's idea, that we get a crewmate per saga, and Jinbe is the addition of the Alliance Saga, so next crewmate might show up until the Game of Thrones Saga.

Even tho, I secretly still believe Oda might pull a sneaky on us with Drake.

[theackwardstation]

@Triceron:

stuff

Well, that post was not about why she would join. I was only addressing your commentary about her being paper-thin and asking what kind of story could she have.

About her joining, I'm not convinced that she will, but I do think it's likely. The reasons are: (1) it makes sense as a natural outcome for her storyline because she wants to go on an adventure at sea and because of the Dawn thing, (2) the amount of screentime she received for no expository reason and without being personally connected to the plotline of the arc, (3) her portrayal being analogous to the Strawhats in WCI (and now Onigashima, maybe), (4) she is a mink, which could be relevant for endgame reasons (like the fishman new recruit), (5) I think her design is very good and fits the bill for a shonen girl hero, (6) she is quirky and fits the mannerism of the crew.

Btw, the reasons above are about why I think it's likely that she'll join, not why I think this would be good. How much we would enjoy her in the crew falls upon our enjoyment of her personality.

Now Jinbe might be awkwardly fit in this since we've known him for a good 10+ years before he finally joined, but the time he's actually spent with the crew is limited, and the time that is spent in the story with him interacting with them is very well defined. He has a good connection with the crew, he's expressed a clear goal and reason to join Luffy, he's time and time again proven himself worthy and useful and has had his moments to shine.

[…] It's the opposite of the Jinbe treatment where every scene we had with him was important to his characterization, while Carrot was interacting in ways that are comparable to other temporary travelling buddies, like Keimi.

I personally love Jimbe and I always wanted him to join (and believed he would since before fishmen island). But I can't agree with this idealization of his portrayal.

For the longest time, there used to be a lot of complaints about Jimbe being a bland Shichibukai and a repetitive character, like his old mania of saying all the time that he would die for this or that. Jimbe was not funny and didn't have quirks. Jimbe could be summarized as the "honorable knight" and that was it. And despite liking him, I couldn't really deny that all of that was partially true.

And we only truly understood his motivations in Fishmen Island a hundred chapters after his introduction, but he was secondary even during that arc and we didn't get too much about his personal perspective. Btw, he only spoke his goal for the first time in WCI, two hundred chapters after that.

As you can see, lot of screentime spent with him was not "character defining", but mostly the same flair of honorable fluff (cool fluff, though). Only hundreds of chapters made him a well rounded character.

But that still doesn't erase hundreds of chapters where she's amounted to very little, and I think it speaks volumes to how she may be treated in the future.

Besides what I already said about my diagnosis of Jimbe, what's so insightful about the other Strawhats in arcs outside of their origin story? Except for the few arcs when there's a focused plot going on with one of them individually (sometimes it happens), their participation sums up to interacting and goofing around or fighting and making themselves useful. That's the same standard used for Carrot in WCI and possibly now again. When I say she got the same portrayal as the other Strawhats, I mean it.

Of course, the difference is that the Strawhats are already developed characters who got their own arcs, so they can get away with it… and Carrot lacks that excuse.

But if we're willing to accept that Oda can invert the order of things, then we should only demand her depth to come from when she gets that kind of focus (if it happens).

In the meanwhile, we can't really compare her to the likes of Camie, who was a cool girl and all, but her participation was expository and a device to leverage the action. Come on!, Carrot doesn't have parallels like that.

[Triceron]

@theackwardstation:

For the longest time, there used to be a lot of complaints about Jimbe being a bland Shichibukai and a repetitive character, like his old mania of saying all the time that he would die for this or that. Jimbe was not funny and didn't have quirks. Jimbe could be summarized as the "honorable knight" and that was it. And despite liking him, I couldn't really deny that all of that was partially true.

And we only truly understood his motivations in Fishmen Island a hundred chapters after his introduction, but he was secondary even during that arc and we didn't get too much about his personal perspective. Btw, he only spoke his goal for the first time in WCI, two hundred chapters after that.

As you can see, lot of screentime spent with him was not "character defining", but mostly the same flair of honorable fluff (cool fluff, though). Only hundreds of chapters made him a well rounded character.

I think we're both on the same page here. Jimbe isn't my primary go-to for what I consider a Straw Hat crewmate, but there he is. I was in the boat thinking he was bland, in some ways I still do feel that way despite him having grandiose moments. However, his story was always seeded from the get-go and he had a sense of purpose behind his actions.

I don't know if we can say the same with Carrot. The gaps are too wide to be able to create any meaningful narrative behind her being seeded as a new crewmate. The possibility is there, but with so many moments taken for granted (may be intentionally so by Oda) that I wouldn't be able to string together a meaningful image of her being a well-rounded crewmate, even if we get some more depth by the end of this arc. She's still very much a blank slate in terms of what her character is and could be. We don't know anything about her motivation, and that's what makes it equally plausible that she will be a Crewmate as much as she could be a sleeper cell Kaido agent. We know so little about her that she could literally pull a Kanjuro, and all the pieces of the puzzle would still fit in perfectly.

Of course, the difference is that the Strawhats are already developed characters who got their own arcs, so they can get away with it… and Carrot lacks that excuse.

But if we're willing to accept that Oda can invert the order of things, then we should only demand her depth to come from when she gets that kind of focus (if it happens).

In the meanwhile, we can't really compare her to the likes of Camie, who was a cool girl and all, but her participation was expository and a device to leverage the action. Come on!, Carrot doesn't have parallels like that.

That's the thing….

The context we have is a very condensed push towards the end of the series. There's a handful of arcs left before we hit the big climax that Oda is planning. I can't say I have much confidence in there being an Arc in store for her, the way we have for the previous Strawhats. I see it for Jinbe since we definitely have unfinished business with Fishman Island, and he has the over-arching goal of peace with the Fishmen. Carrot's motivations so far are to see the world, and frankly that's something she can do as an independent ally.

If we entertain the idea that Pedro's words having impact by the end of the arc, then I would be more open to the possibility of her joining the crew, but that's a supposition that requires more than just a revelation on her part. I was half-expecting some personal exposition from her at Pedro's grave, but instead we got nothing but a simple panel of a bunch of Minks with sad faces. All we know of her connection to Pedro is a flashback where he tells Shishilian that she's no good at swords, so is that supposed to be enough for us to formulate a deep connection between the two? If she happens to 'inherit his will' then I'd think it would be a heavy-handed explanation that requires a lot of fill-in-the-blank suspension of disbelief, because we're not privy to her having a deep connection with Pedro to begin with. And that's not something I want to be explained in retrospect after she joins the crew, I'd like to have it seeded in her story through her own dialogue. Even Tama's simple 'I want to be an enchanting Kunoichi' tells more about her connection to Ace than anything Carrot's said in regards to Pedro.

Side note - I also don't think it's enough to just fill her story. I think her development needs to connect back to Luffy in some meaningful way, and right now she isn't even on Luffy's radar. Every crewmember has a personal tie to Luffy in the story. Carrot has yet to show that personal connection.

Time will tell if this will develop though.

[Cockycent]

Jinbe's flaw imo is playing the middle til it's convenient. Almost similar to Hamlet's inaction, but not procrastination, just honor. Going against BM was good development tho. Perfect time to show the world a bold move. Even in that, he bide time til the right moment to free Nami and the idiot

[theackwardstation]

@Triceron:

I think we're both on the same page here. Jimbe isn't my primary go-to for what I consider a Straw Hat crewmate, but there he is. I was in the boat thinking he was bland, in some ways I still do feel that way despite him having grandiose moments. However, his story was always seeded from the get-go and he had a sense of purpose behind his actions.

I don't know if we can say the same with Carrot.

All characters have purpose behind their actions, don't they? Carrot does too. Even tertiary characters have purpose.

What you're just trying to do is to create an arbitrary hierachy which dictates whose purposes are worth it, but then we enter a much more complicated discussion. In any case, as I said before, my opinion is that Carrot's desire for an adventure at sea is a valid foundation, and it'll get more substantial once she understands the Dawn thing (and that will happen as it's been explicitly foreshadowed).

And about Jimbe having a more meaningful purpose… isn't this perspective a little bit revisionary? For the longest time his purpose was something circumstantial about helping Newgate out of a sense of gratitude and duty. Even if we could imagine further developments for his motivations, that was only a supposition, not something established by the narrative.

That's the thing….

The context we have is a very condensed push towards the end of the series. There's a handful of arcs left before we hit the big climax that Oda is planning. I can't say I have much confidence in there being an Arc in store for her, the way we have for the previous Strawhats. I see it for Jinbe since we definitely have unfinished business with Fishman Island, and he has the over-arching goal of peace with the Fishmen. Carrot's motivations so far are to see the world, and frankly that's something she can do as an independent ally.

If we entertain the idea that Pedro's words having impact by the end of the arc, then I would be more open to the possibility of her joining the crew, but that's a supposition that requires more than just a revelation on her part and something that I think Luffy would have to acknowledge as well on a personal note to her. Personal opinion - I don't think it's enough to just fill her story. I think her development needs to connect back to Luffy in some meaningful way, and right now she isn't even on Luffy's radar.

Time will tell if this will develop though.

To be honest…

Oda's writing style has changed substantially over the years and nowadays he tends to tackle a lot of things at the same time. If Carrot gets a very personal focus at some point, I don't think it'll be through an entire arc all for herself, but instead it'll probably be a bubble in the middle of a bigger narrative, probably here in Wano before or after Kaido's defeat.

And that's not a problem to me as long as it's done well. And it'll be most likely something related to Luffy since the Dawn is about him, right? Let's wait and see.

But it should be noted that our evaluation of her is very subjective. For example, some people are dismissive about Carrot because they don't vibe with her archetype and motivations. But some other people think that Oda showed care for characterization and integration with the crew. The same divide might happen again in Wano.

Of course, she's been very lackluster and unimportant in Wano so far, and my perception for her chances of joining have decreased... but her participation in WCI was pretty cool to me. If she gets that same level of treatment again in Onigashima while finally getting her development, then that would be awesome enough.

At last, I'd like to add that not all Strawhats are made equal. I don't think that new Strawhats should rise up to the same standard as some of the past crewmates, especially because the East Blue members are the only true protagonists of One Piece. Carrot or whoever else joins the crew is a late addition and much less integral to the narrative. And their charisma is a matter of taste.

[Triceron]

@theackwardstation:

All characters have purpose behind their actions, don't they? Carrot does too. Even tertiary characters have purpose.

What you're just trying to do is to create an arbitrary hierachy which dictates whose purposes are worth it, but then we enter a much more complicated discussion. In any case, as I said before, my opinion is that Carrot's desire for an adventure at sea is a valid foundation, and it'll get more substantial once she understands the Dawn thing (and that will happen as it's been explicitly foreshadowed).

And about Jimbe having a more meaningful purpose… isn't this perspective a little bit revisionary? For the longest time his purpose was something circumstantial about helping Newgate out of a sense of gratitude and duty. Even if we could imagine further developments for his motivations, that was only a supposition, not something established by the narrative.

My personal thoughts on Jimbe are fairly indifferent towards his character. I didn't mind him joining, I didn't see him being a big contender for the spot prior to the New World, but by all means others had seen it in him and there is a very persuasive argument behind him and his story all the way back before he was even formally introduced. I never saw anything to it, but what I personally have seen showed me that his characterization was definitely rounded well during Marineford, and his motivations to help Luffy was strong enough to warrant him being a potential crewmate. This was only strengthened more and more with we learned about him, such as his aspirations to bring peace between Humans and Fishman. Now, it wasn't enough to convince me on a personal level that Jimbe is automatic Nakama, but I can understand it based on his story. It unfolded, and it wasn't just steeped in ambiguity as a standard ally who simply helps Luffy because of friendship or quid pro quo.

If I were to apply the same to Carrot, I would need to see that kind of moment for her. Wano is still young, so we have yet to see how she plays out, but like I said before I am looking for something to warrant Luffy having any interest in her beyond 'Carrot has a purpose'.

Like you said, all characters have purpose. So what criteria would we use to factor a new crewmate? Just accept a blanket 'Anyone can be a Crewmate because they have purpose!'? I would like to think there is more to it than that.

To be honest…

Oda's writing style has changed substantially over the years and nowadays he tends to tackle a lot of things at the same time. If Carrot gets a very personal focus at some point, I don't think it'll be through an entire arc all for herself, but instead it'll probably be a bubble in the middle of a bigger narrative, probably here in Wano before or after Kaido's defeat.

And that's not a problem to me as long as it's done well. And it'll be most likely something related to Luffy since the Dawn is about him, right? Let's wait and see.

But it should be noted that our evaluation of her is very subjective. For example, some people are dismissive about Carrot because they don't vibe with her archetype and motivations. But some other people think that Oda showed care for characterization and integration with the crew. The same divide might happen again in Wano.

Of course, she's been very lackluster and unimportant in Wano so far, and my perception for her chances of joining have decreased... but her participation in WCI was pretty cool to me. If she gets that same level of treatment again in Onigashima while finally getting her development, then that would be awesome enough.

Personal opinion - I disliked Whole Cake Island arc in terms of pacing and story telling. I felt like this was meant to be Sanji's Arc, and I came out of it waving a Brook flag more than I really cared about Sanji. There were too many plot points going around, much too much focus on the Luffy-Katakuri fight (understandable, but still a pace-killer for Sanji's story) and I felt Sanji wasn't even characterized properly since he came out of it without much character growth. If anything, he had a total personality change at the start and the arc resolved with him… .being exactly how he was prior to Whole Cake. My personal take is that we shouldn't have had the Sanji that was willing to secretly leave the crew for the sake of the crew, we already had that story with Robin ages ago. We wouldn't have the Sanji who disowns everything Germa while still using the Raid Suit because he has it. I don't even know what the payoff will be with having Sanji have zero credit for the Wedding Cake, as well as have his memories of Pudding taken away. I'm sure Oda has something planned, but it was kind of a let down to what should have been a real 'Year of Sanji'.

And based on that experience of Whole Cake, I'd say I'm somewhat skeptical against Oda being able to tackle a deep character story amidst a busy action arc.

Of course, I'm not applying this directly to Carrot. Oda can do whatever he wishes. I'll just say that I'd be pleasantly surprised if he's able to pull it all off for Carrot, if she happens to be the one.

At last, I'd like to add that not all Strawhats are made equal. I don't think that new Strawhats should rise up to the same standard as some of the past crewmates, especially because the East Blue members are the only true protagonists of One Piece. Carrot or whoever else joins the crew is a late addition and much less integral to the narrative. And their charisma is a matter of taste.

Fully agree here. I wouldn't mind seeing Carrot on the crew, since I do like her character and I wouldn't mind seeing more of her, though that goes to say for a lot of characters I like in the story.

[theackwardstation]

@Triceron:

My personal thoughts on Jimbe are fairly indifferent towards his character. I didn't mind him joining, I didn't see him being a big contender for the spot prior to the New World, but by all means others had seen it in him and there is a very persuasive argument behind him and his story all the way back before he was even formally introduced. I never saw anything to it, but what I personally have seen showed me that his characterization was definitely rounded well during Marineford, and his motivations to help Luffy was strong enough to warrant him being a potential crewmate. This was only strengthened more and more with we learned about him, such as his aspirations to bring peace between Humans and Fishman. Now, it wasn't enough to convince me on a personal level that Jimbe is automatic Nakama, but I can understand it based on his story. It unfolded, and it wasn't just steeped in ambiguity as a standard ally who simply helps Luffy because of friendship or quid pro quo.

You're saying that there were implications about Jimbe's character since even before his formal introduction that made for a compelling case… and isn't there also a persuasive argument for Carrot based on what we can speculate from the hinted lore, from Pedro's last words and from her massive screentime together with the crew?

Of course there's ambiguity and speculation for Carrot, but Jimbe was unclear too before Luffy asked him to join.

We can focus on what Carrot is missing compared to Jimbe (like this closer bond with Luffy), which is valid, but she's got her own baggage of things making her grab that tenth spot, not to mention whatever else that may play out soon.

And based on that experience of Whole Cake, I'd say I'm somewhat skeptical against Oda being able to tackle a deep character story amidst a busy action arc.

Of course, I'm not applying this directly to Carrot. Oda can do whatever he wishes. I'll just say that I'd be pleasantly surprised if he's able to pull it all off for Carrot, if she happens to be the one.

Well, I won't make this a Sanji/WCI thread… All I'll say is that it might happen that Oda won't be able to pull off well a deep character story for Carrot amidst a busy action arc... but that would be a failure of execution, yet the objective would still be there. Right?

[Triceron]

@theackwardstation:

You're saying that there were implications about Jimbe's character since even before his formal introduction that made for a compelling case… and isn't there also a persuasive argument for Carrot based on what we can speculate from the hinted lore, from Pedro's last words and from her massive screentime together with the crew?

Of course there's ambiguity and speculation for Carrot, but Jimbe was unclear too before Luffy asked him to join.

Look up Brennen.exe's theories regarding Jinbe. I'm sure it's archived somewhere, and his analysis was on point and happened well before Jimbe was introduced. There was a hefty dose of speculation, but it runs pretty deep. I'm not even going to paraphrase lest I get all the details wrong and play a terrible game of telephone.

Ambiguity would always be there no matter what theories we put out, but there are things that were seeded in his character and things that followed certain patterns that Oda has presented that simply don't exist with a character like Carrot, despite all the opportunities to have these moments and bits of information presented to us.

To be honest, I haven't seen or heard many solid theories behind her that would actually make sense of her current situation. Most of the time the arguments in her favour are all simply wishful thinking that Oda will pull out some miracle explanation - but that doesn't cover up for her complete lack of story throughout the time we have with her in the crew. If anything, a revelation should put all of those experiences into perspective, and that's actually how Jimbe is presented now. We understand his actions before much more clearly now than ever before, and everything fits into place. However with Carrot, I don't even see that being possible given that she's got nothing for the reader to really inflect on. There's nothing specific about her aspirations that tie her in with the crew, and the one thing that does (Pedro's words) ends up being glossed over time and time again, when we would expect there to be some kind of internal monologue or exposition to show she actually gives a damn about them. If we're really going to get some big revelation for Carrot then I have high expectations for the execution, something that will need to cover the glaring holes left in the plot concerning her place and role, and how Luffy would come to accept her as a crewmate.

I mean pragmatically speaking, it could be something as simple as Luffy having a big moment that puts Pedro's words into perspective, Carrot has a big moment of that makes her a worthy personal ally, and she simply asks to join and he says yes. That could very well happen. I would think anything greater than that risks taking something away from what should be Jinbe's celebration, and I'd be curious to see how Oda finds the right balance that will make up for her (IMO) lackluster characterization.

[theackwardstation]

@Triceron:

Most of the time the arguments in her favour are all simply wishful thinking that Oda will pull out some miracle explanation

It's not wishful thinking for a miracle revelation.

There are seeds planted. These seeds might not lead to her becoming a Strawhat, obviously, but they will probably grow into something whatever it is. This is not a random thought that something will randomly fall down from the sky to take Carrot to stardom. The speculation just makes sense. And it's plausible that among the possibilities of this outcome might be joining the crew for many reasons.

Also, it's not normal to give so much screentime to a character and to make her act like a Strawhat and then not give her a proper closure. Again, this does not mean that Carrot will become a Strawhat, but there must be something for her at the end of the line. So the speculation makes sense from this angle too.

You say that Carrot supporters make he effort to suppose that something will suddenly happen to her… but let's talk about the inverse then. Let's suppose that Carrot simply fades into the background now without ever doing anything again, says goodbye and it's over for her. No highlights, no understandment of the Dawn, no more intimate crew interactions, no action. Just goodbye. Well... that would be weird. Some people would love it, I'm sure, but it would feel like something was missing, like there was a lack of payoff to all the investment of screentime on her. A sudden dead end in a surreal trajectory.

Anyway, I don't really like making elaborate theories because they tend to become fanfics that lead to false expectations. My thing is more to point out that there is something going on, so we need to pay attention. What makes the most sense to me right now is that Carrot will join the crew regardless of the details that will lead her there. But it could be something else indeed. Maybe she'll become a captain of the Grand Fleet or maybe return to musketeer duty, but those other options that people usually propose just don't feel right.

[Triceron]

@theackwardstation:

You say that Carrot supporters make he effort to suppose that something will suddenly happen to her… but let's talk about the inverse then. Let's suppose that Carrot simply fades into the background now without ever doing anything again, says goodbye and it's over for her. No highlights, no understandment of the Dawn, no more intimate crew interactions, no action. Just goodbye. Well... that would be weird. Some people would love it, I'm sure, but it would feel like something was missing, like there was a lack of payoff to all the investment of screentime on her. A sudden dead end in a surreal trajectory.

Anyway, I don't really like making elaborate theories because they tend to become fanfics that lead to false expectations. My thing is more to point out that there is something going on, so we need to pay attention. What makes the most sense to me right now is that Carrot will join the crew regardless of the details that will lead her there. But it could be something else indeed. Maybe she'll become a captain of the Grand Fleet or maybe return to musketeer duty, but those other options that people usually propose just don't feel right.

Fading into the background doesn't mean leaving the story. I'd imagine if she doesn't join the crew, she'd be elevated to a fairly strong Strawhat Ally position, ala Grand Fleet style. I imagine there will be quite a few more groups like this since we have Kidd, Marco, the Yakuza, the rest of the Scabbards, and now Yamato joining in the fight.

[Monquito]

Imho, whenever we come up with other options like; she's becoming a Fleet Member, she'll do a Nox 2.0, she's going to search missing poneglyphs.
We're being kinda benevolent there.

Oda is pure evil, he can literally do nothing else with her, that's possible and ya'll know it

[Triceron]

@Monquito:

Oda is pure evil, he can literally do nothing else with her, that's possible and ya'll know it

I wouldn't consider that evil. Oda's characters fading into obscurity can be a far better fate than what some other Mangaka have been known to do.

[theackwardstation]

@Triceron:

Fading into the background doesn't mean leaving the story. I'd imagine if she doesn't join the crew, she'd be elevated to a fairly strong Strawhat Ally position, ala Grand Fleet style. I imagine there will be quite a few more groups like this since we have Kidd, Marco, the Yakuza, the rest of the Scabbards, and now Yamato joining in the fight.

Well, that doesn't answer me.

I'm not saying that becoming part of Grand Fleet or something else are not in the cards for Carrot (they are). I'm not discussing the outcome in those paragraphs. What I'm telling you is that fading into the background with no pay-off to her character would be awkward writing. I've listed the things that would be weird if not happened (no highlights, no understendment of the dawn, no action, etc).

My point is that you can't say that supporters are just tripping with "wishful thinking" as long as you agree that something meaningful must happen to her before she takes the exit or perhaps keeps going with the crew. What I want you to acknowledge is that it's within legitimate expectation that Carrot will have a major role to play in order to justify why she got such a prolonged screentime together with the crew for no expository reasons. Otherwise it would be… mind-boggling.

It's not wishful thinking as long as the possibility is concrete and plausible. And I repeat that I'm not implying that becoming a Strawhat is the only possible answer. My point is that there are plenty of reasons to expect something major from her character, so we're not just inventing stuff out of thin air.

[Triceron]

@theackwardstation:

It's not wishful thinking as long as the possibility is concrete and plausible. And I repeat that I'm not implying that becoming a Strawhat is the only possible answer. My point is that there are plenty of reasons to expect something major from her character, so we're not just inventing stuff out of thin air.

It is wishful thinking when I was literally responding to someone else who was using wishful thinking to prop Carrot up on a pedestal. You seem to be talking for other people without fully understanding the arguments they presented.

I understand your argument, and you aren't wishful thinking, but lets not pretend that the supporters here are not making rhese kind of arguments.

Its literally the only reason why someone like me who would like to see Carrot as a crewmember would even care to respond. I am not addressing ALL supporters of Carrot when I say there is wishful thinking going on, I am literally targetting those who are using fictional precedence (headcanon) to support the idea that Carrot has a more important role than she actually has. This includes the idea that she understands what the New Dawn is (we aren't shown whether she really knows), the idea that she has a dream (we have not seen that, only knowing she wants to see the world) or that she will undoubtedly inherit Pedro's will (no guarantees).

You are not the one making these arguments, and you might not even be aware this is happening, but this is what I was addressing before you took my replies out of context as if I was painting a picture of Carrot being a non-crewmate side character without realizing it.

Besides, if you aren't a wishful thinker for Carrot to be Crewmate going in with blind expectation that she will be one because of some miraculous explanation, then I'm not referring to you. I am in fact referring to the others who I have been discussing with.
I've argued on both sides of this topic, for and against her. Some people have dismissed Carrot on the sole basis of her design not being unique enough, and I don't think that is a criteria to be used to denounce a possible crewmate. Its an important factor, but absolutely a subjective one. When dealing with the inverse, its wishful thinking to believe that she will join because all the blanks will be filled when the time is right. There isn't any real substance to that in terms of discussing characters, its all based on faith and opinion, just as bad as dismissing based on 'design'.

[theackwardstation]

@Triceron:

…

Oh, ok. Fair enough.

[Zik]

Next nakama: Yamato

[Kishido]

This post is deleted!

[StrawHatJedi]

Please remember to keep spoilers to the spoiler board. I haven't read the chapter. No idea if any of the comments are somehow inferring anything about this week's chapter, but I think the reminder needs to be posted. I was spoiled with 983 through this thread.

On the topic at hand, I've said my piece on Carrot and won't be saying anymore. My opinion hasn't changed. Only time will tell at this point.

[Gia Sado]

@IORI_17:

Wasn't written in the Vivre Card Databook (Volume 3/6/7?) that Aokiji is an ally to Blackbeard and not a titan? I remember those stating there are 10 captains excluding Blackbeard and Aokiji, with the order of their fleet being:

1. Jesus Burgess
2. Shiliew
3. Van Augur
4. Avalo Pizarro
5. Laffitte
6. Catarina Devon
7. Sanjuan Wolf
8. Vasco Shot
9. Doc Q
10. ? (should be a new member we don't know about, wheter it is a new character or someone we've already seen)

I have tried searching for a source but I can't find it, so maybe it was written in an early translation (which could have been wrong) or my memory is wrong (I remembered the third spot being the open one, so I can be mistaking Aokiji's position too). If someone has the vivre cards and can read them it would be useful, even though now I realize that would be something well known if it was written there (and I doubt Oda would reveal it in a data book)

Yes, its been mentioned during Dressrosa and I believe after as well. BB already has 11 members (12 if you count Aokiji). We clearly don't know what Aokiji's play is here, as it seems oddly obvious that either BB or Aokiji will betray the other.

I also haven't changed my opinion on Carrot. I think she's a great it and because she's been constantly with Nami during the raid and not relegated to the other minks this arc leads me to believe she does in fact have some special importance during a battle (Perospero I personally feel). If we are counting Aokiji, then I also think Oda is counting in Yamato (Not at all spoilers to 984) in the mix. Just from Yamato's dialogue in 983, they have been waiting for Luffy for a long time specifically. Right off the bat you get the vibe.

We are at a crux in the story where the crew probably needs to be complete in the end. If its 12 members, I think the last 3 are joining this arc:

• Jinbe: obviously, he's already joined

• Carrot: With all she's been through with Luffy and crew, and her thirst for adventure, I see her joining Luffy's crew specifically. Maybe she goes to form the New Nox pirates or something, but I don't think she has leadership skills, and so far she is more important than any other mink, and even has more screentime than Inu/Neko. This is significant.

• Yamato: Without spoiling anything from the newest chapter, its clear that Yamato is being painted as an ally with ties to Luffy. This late in the arc, its a very peculiar setup.

[Monquito]

I don't thing going by inconclusive dialogue is a good argument.

Mostly because of PinkBeard and Moria.

What about PinkBeard, could he become a core member just cause he's already an ally and fight Franky in the final battle?

And Moria? Was he invited to be a core member(titan) or an ally??

Luffy's been doing ridiculous amounts of allies all over the place, it only makes sense Teach is doing the same.

And also, Aokiji's relationship with BB sounded like very recent news, how was someone like Gatz already aware of that?

[Deicide]

@Monquito:

I don't thing going by inconclusive dialogue is a good argument.

Mostly because of PinkBeard and Moria.

What about PinkBeard, could he become a core member just cause he's already an ally and fight Franky in the final battle?

And Moria? Was he invited to be a core member(titan) or an ally??

Luffy's been doing ridiculous amounts of allies all over the place, it only makes sense Teach is doing the same.

And also, Aokiji's relationship with BB sounded like very recent news, how was someone like Gatz already aware of that?

About inconclusive dialogue, that's Oda's modus operandi to keep some reveals for later. "You remind me of 'that person'…", "If the marines are going to keep 'that thing'..."

I think it's a matter of strength. Blackbeard seeks the strong, that's why he went to Impel Down. Aokiji is far far above Moria or Pinkbeard in strength. He's the kind of subordinate you appease to keep in your organization.

We may not be sure of who is the last Titan, but we surely know that the character must be strong as hell.

And, finally, being recent news do not mean Aokiji can't be it. His colaboration with Blackbeard could have remained hidden for a time before he was finally promoted to the position.

[Monquito]

@Deicide:

And, finally, being recent news do not mean Aokiji can't be it. His colaboration with Blackbeard could have remained hidden for a time before he was finally promoted to the position.

It couldn't kept hidden because Gatz said "BB and his ten titanic captains" as very well known information across the NW.

Whereas Burguess and The Gorosei brought it up as very recent news.

[Zhenja]

Why would anyone think Kuzan will become a bad guy? He might be allied with BB for the moment, but he has an agenda and won't be on his side for ever.
Hell, he might even be part of SWORD. I mean, if you're going to infiltrate someone like BB, you can't just send some random fodder like a rear admiral, an ex-admiral is your best chance of success.

[Xskart]

@Zhenja:

Why would anyone think Kuzan will become a bad guy? He might be allied with BB for the moment, but he has an agenda and won't be on his side for ever.
Hell, he might even be part of SWORD. I mean, if you're going to infiltrate someone like BB, you can't just send some random fodder like a rear admiral, an ex-admiral is your best chance of success.

I agree. I still tihnk the battle agains Magmaboy was just a trick to make it seem kuzan was done with the marines.

[Zhenja]

@Xskart:

I agree. I still tihnk the battle agains Magmaboy was just a trick to make it seem kuzan was done with the marines.

No, I wouldn't say that.
I think he really did leave the marines, but with the rise of BB he realized that it wouldn't be bad to keep an eye on him and came to an agreement with Sakazuki.

[Deicide]

@Zhenja:

Why would anyone think Kuzan will become a bad guy? He might be allied with BB for the moment, but he has an agenda and won't be on his side for ever.
Hell, he might even be part of SWORD. I mean, if you're going to infiltrate someone like BB, you can't just send some random fodder like a rear admiral, an ex-admiral is your best chance of success.

I don't think anyone believes he's a bad guy. He's a mole in Blackbeard's organization, obviously.

[RobinotX]

@Zhenja:

Has been for every single Strawhat, for over 20 years, a pattern. No reason to change it for Carrot.
Fisher Tiger died in a flashback, Otohime died in a flashback.
Tama's flashback can be about her childhood before meeting Ace or even before Tengu, depending on how long he's been with her. There is potential.

Earlier in some posts you mentioned that people stretch when they want Carrot. But now we have a pattern that can't be broken. But when we put pattern's next to eachother based on why she could join patterns can be broken? I mean aren't the anti-Carrot joins group trying to change rules to their narrative as much as the pro-Carrot joins group? I mean I really don't care if she joins or not but based on how the story goes I wouldn't be suprised she did.

In regards to Carrot storywise it still makes sense to me she is joining as I said some pages back and as some others highlighted. If you think her lack of background story makes her not able to join, sure… she gets a backstory in a later stadium like Robin and Nami did. Both Robin and Nami didn't have a backstory untill later relevant to the story. Why should we break the pattern of our female members? After Wano she still can get a story focussed on her even though she alreadys joins te crew. We learn more about her lineage etc.

[Coookie]

Ah yes, the magical land of Tomorrow, where students will start to learn, husbands will fix that one creaky door and Carrot will get development

[Johnny B. Decent]

Just a random thought, but could Jinbei's position in the Straw Hat family also be a Grandfather? Like, he's the paternal one to Brook's maternal, or something.

[Zhenja]

@RobinotX:

Earlier in some posts you mentioned that people stretch when they want Carrot. But now we have a pattern that can't be broken. But when we put pattern's next to eachother based on why she could join patterns can be broken?

Patterns can be broken, but it's very unlikely to happen. There are no reasons for that. Why would Oda do it after 20+ years?
Feel free to prove me wrong.

@RobinotX:

I mean aren't the anti-Carrot joins group trying to change rules to their narrative as much as the pro-Carrot joins group? I mean I really don't care if she joins or not but based on how the story goes I wouldn't be suprised she did.

I don't try to change rules, at least not that I'm aware of.
Could she ask Luffy to join and he says yes, absolutely.
Could she hide one the Sunny like Robin and stay with them, of course.
Is Luffy going to ask her to join them, no. That 's where I stand.

@RobinotX:

In regards to Carrot storywise it still makes sense to me she is joining as I said some pages back and as some others highlighted. If you think her lack of background story makes her not able to join, sure… she gets a backstory in a later stadium like Robin and Nami did. Both Robin and Nami didn't have a backstory untill later relevant to the story. Why should we break the pattern of our female members? After Wano she still can get a story focussed on her even though she alreadys joins te crew. We learn more about her lineage etc.

I think you're mixing flashback and backstory up. I'm not saying she won't join because she didn't get her flashback yet, or that she can't get one before she joins.
I'm saying she doesn't have the potential for a flashback worth backstory.
What could her backstory be about? What would be so interesting about her lineage?
I can't see anything in her past being nearly as tragic or important as the past of any of the other Strawhats.

I'm not anti Carrot, I don't give a sh*t about her, she can join, she can stay at Zou, she can die, I won't care.

[Kishido]

Her backstory will be there she was mobbed by Zou people all her life

And Pedro protected her and now he is dead

The end… Carrot joins as lookout

PS
Of course not

[Deicide]

Daily reminder that no one besides Jinbe will join now, IMO.

Everyone else are companions and allies.

[Monquito]

@Coookie:

Ah yes, the magical land of Tomorrow, where students will start to learn, husbands will fix that one creaky door and Carrot will get development

Tbh the belief that something will happen is genuine, we're almost 20 chapters from reaching the duration of Dressrosa, if this arc last 130/140 chaps like I'm expecting, we're still at 50/60 chaps from the end. Lotta things can happen and Peros is here.

The real question would be, how impactuful, symbolic or depth would that mean to Carrot in the path of joining the crew?, mostly when there are massive chances that if she faces with Peros, will only do a horrible damsel in distress scenario, and that's bad.

[RobinotX]

@Zhenja:

I don't try to change rules, at least not that I'm aware of.
Could she ask Luffy to join and he says yes, absolutely.
Could she hide one the Sunny like Robin and stay with them, of course.
Is Luffy going to ask her to join them, no. That 's where I stand.

Then we agree cause I don't think Luffy will ask her either. Both Nami and Robin didn't ask Luffy to join the crew they offered to join or help him. So in that sense I do think that Carrot also will be a 'forced' member as in she will ask.

In regards to the backstory I dont know. But the same was with Nami and Robin to some degree what her story could be. The thing is if Oda wants to he can write a whole tragic story for Carrot and that will only be showed later and there is also a possiblity that there is nothing and she indeed doesn't join. Or she will be the first without a flashback and her backstory is the Dawn of the New World Pedro mentioned to her and her bringing the Straw Hats to where they should be.

[Zhenja]

@RobinotX:

But the same was with Nami and Robin to some degree what her story could be.

It's not the same, both of them had potential for a flashback worth backstory.

Carrot spent her whole life on Zou, it was a safe environment. Even if something happened to her parents, she wasn't alone every Mink would support her, she wouldn't be lonely.
Jack was probably the first real bad thing that she witnessed and Pedro's death was the second bad thing that happened to her.
But that doesn't fit the flashback-pattern.
No matter what else could've happened to her, it's unlikely that it's comparable to the other Strawhats backstories, because there was some heavy stuff.

[SeaOfHope]

As I mentioned before, we can't really just dismiss a lot of stuff for Carrot considering for someone so young she kinda does have some level of mystery. Despite being 15, she's apparently the youngest known elite warrior on Zou, youngest known warrior to master Sulong, had an established position in the Mokomo Dukedom ahead of her more experienced peers, Pedro monitoring her training when he was a Guardian who are not active during the day, and her apparent a lack of parents. Wanda is apparently her caretaker, but she never once mentions her parents. If even Pekoms can acknowledge his parents after the destruction and attack on Zou, so could have Carrot. Never addressed since the narrative never points to it.

Even if Zou is a safe refuge of the Mink Tribe, I wouldn't discount past events that could have occurred. I don't know if she even has a tragic backstory, but out of all the tag-a-longs who have journeyed with the crew for multiple arcs, her lacking that kinda makes her stick out in the narrative if you look at previous trends. Considering the lack of information Oda put on her vivre card in comparison to others, he still might have a story to tell regarding her. So I wouldn't discount her. Especially since she's here for the long haul.

EDIT:Also Zhenja, didn't Luffy, Zoro, Usopp, grow up in relatively safe environments? You can make the argument for Sanji since the Baratie was a very supportive environment. They were in the East Blue after all.

[Cockycent]

I think Carrot might join the SH crew. Based on the way that Oda has handled her. There are multiple things that he has shown her doing that is very interesting

[Blake Bakes Cakes]

I will honestly never understand people who push for caesar joining the crew. Like yes I enjoy him a lot but like… he drugged children and has commited various other unforgivable crimes. This is one piece not dragonball.

[fapfapfap]

Does anyone think we'll get new crew members AFTER Wano arc? I just can't see anybody joining after Wano. Oda himself said that the series would be accelerating towards it's climax.

While I'm sure more characters will make surprises appearances for the Battle against Kaido it seems like we know all the major players now relevant to the story arc.

[BlueOGRE]

i must be the only one left in ever who thinks that Kin'emon will join for kickstarting this saga back at Punk Hazard, saving the raids plan by means of stupidity, and having a devil fruits that's being 2-9

[Blake Bakes Cakes]

@BlueOGRE:

i must be the only one left in ever who thinks that Kin'emon will join for kickstarting this saga back at Punk Hazard, saving the raids plan by means of stupidity, and having a devil fruits that's being 2-9

I would like him to join the crew, but I'm not really sure WHY he would

[BlueOGRE]

being a honor bound samurai that he is. he would be indebted to Luffy and the others when Kaido and his crew eventually goes down

[fapfapfap]

@BlueOGRE:

being a honor bound samurai that he is. he would be indebted to Luffy and the others when Kaido and his crew eventually goes down

We already have a samurai in the crew.

[BlueOGRE]

@fapfapfap:

We already have a samurai in the crew.

Zoro is just a swordsman, and Brook's sword style is that of a fencer

[Triceron]

If Oda can introduce someone as hype as Yamato from a mere mention to hype-city within the span of 10 chapters, I think he can introduce someone significant in later arcs.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@BlueOGRE:

Zoro is just a swordsman, and Brook's sword style is that of a fencer

It's heavily implied he has connections to Wano and that his teacher may have come from Wano. It's hinted at when Momo used that word that he heard Zoro use.