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Pretty interesting video about an alternative episode 3.
Game of Thrones (tv show thread)
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I was going to talk shit about Daenerys, but the tldr version is that she's a conqueror, not a ruler. When she listens to her advisors is usually to the worst ideas, like "let's make a truce with cersei" or "let's avoid burning the red keep down and avoid a senseless long war". I actually blame Tyrion, trying to reign her in, to save Cersei, is what put her in this situation.
To be fair to Tyrion, I don't think he's aware of the worse things that Cersei has done. And early show did shift her "kill all babies" acts to Joffrey.
But then again, advicing Dany is not easy: https://twitter.com/noahisaak/status/1125580781760524288
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King Aerys the mad was mad because he was kidnaped and raped to try and get a prophecy going, and Tywin did Tywin things instead of rescuing him or ending him, leaving Dontos, the guy who actually saves sansa, as the one survivor of that insane family. That little change sidesteps too much of what is set up.
Targaryens had been obsessing over fire like forever for Aerys to be an anomaly. One drank wildfire, other ended the least awful Targaryen, and his least awful heir, making a giant pyre, not counting the civil war (wars?) with dragons (should do THAT prequel instead of the night king), and so forth.
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I get that they really want to push the oooh she's turning into the mad queen angle but the way they've gone about it so far just makes me think she is more often than not being the least unreasonable person in the room.
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Agree, while her breaking points are there (her dragons, her armies, her actually loyal advisor, her actually loyal friend are gone), she responds with a very measured response all witstanding.
I guess is an artifact from the GRRM outline clashing with how they set her up.
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Maybe some lashing out at Sansa, the "what dragons eat" retort being way more menacing, her being generally colder or more erratic, or that she isn't the rightful heir being more of a "don't you DARE" rather to "let's put a pin on that".
The things that would break her have happened, but she's taking it on strides. But she really should have killed or exiled Tyrion, or return him to the bureocratic administrator he trully is meant to be.
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Yeah Tyrion as her hand hasn't really panned out for her. And once she starts revenge torturing and/or murdering his bro and sis i'd imagine Tyrions gonna be in an akward seat since it's implied he still kinda sorta likes his bro atleast. Oh well atleast we can look forward to the clegane brothers stabbing each other. It's one of those little things you can take comfort in
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I wonder about the Mountain though. Will it be satisfying, whatwith the dude being a zombie and not really himself? Is it worth for the Hound to kill that husk of a man?
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I wonder about the Mountain though. Will it be satisfying, whatwith the dude being a zombie and not really himself? Is it worth for the Hound to kill that husk of a man?
Don't rob me of my only bright spot
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Saw a few released photos from the next episodes. Spoiler tag them just in case.
! Lol at Vary greeting Jon at the bay of Dragonstone.
Not necesarily, think the north as Russia. That winter they are so proud is their last line of defense, and Euron's fleet can't be on two sides at once.
Then there's moat calin, the one good road to the north, defended by a treacherous swamp, and a particulary dumb but effective fort. Of course the characters in the show don't believe in fortifications, but still is there.
Not that harsh of a winter (at least compared to what the Hound went through last season). The Unsullied are basically in their swimming suits.
But sure. I just feel like these stuff need to be addressed. They keep repeating how Sansa doesn't want to be ruled by Daenery's, but there's never a discussion of the consequences and the alternatives. Everyone's so one-note all the time.
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If you do a character breakdown of GoT none of them are suited for the thrones and have all been reduced to a one note hypocrite.
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True in a way but a different beast. It was his secret to entrust, if person X told you in confidence for instance that he was gay and ask you not to tell people you can't use the fact that he told you as an excuse for telling others. But i guess in an indirect way it is Jon's fault for not realizing what type of person Sansa was and how her word means about as much as her mentors word did
I thught we were mocking the kids inability to keep secrects not specifically Sansa.
Altough I do agree Sansa was worst. Not because it wasn't her secret to tell but because there was no advantage to it. It doesn't help at all, it just makes a target out of Jon. Also Jon telling her secret was consistent with his character where I really doubt Sansa telling in this specific context is. But Iguess that's what passes as conflict in current GOT.
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If you do a character breakdown of GoT none of them are suited for the thrones and have all been reduced to a one note hypocrite.
I think a popular theory is that we are ending on a democracy or a council.
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Altough I do agree Sansa was worst. Not because it wasn't her secret to tell but because there was no advantage to it. It doesn't help at all, it just makes a target out of Jon. Also Jon telling her secret was consistent with his character where I really doubt Sansa telling in this specific context is. But Iguess that's what passes as conflict in current GOT.
In the mind of the hacks who wrote it i assume it's done to show how she's now a shrewd littlefinger like character who plays the game of thrones and schemes. But of course when you watch it in the show it's just as dumb as the rest of the season has been
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I do wonder what were the GRRM notes that led to "Daenerys goes south and is ambushed because fuck scouts" and "Cersei has Dany within shooting range of her fucking giant Balistae and doesn't take the shoot". Sansa being "I'll be shifty because is all I can do" or Stanis being "Let me make princess BBQ" or the Night King being "Let me be in the front lines, even if I die is literaly over for my side" seems quaint.
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If i were to hazard a few baseless guesses i'm gonna say that either Martins planned pay off was based on a chain of events or character that they've already wasted or steered in a different direction. Either that or that his idea was too small and understated or too large in scope for them to handle it budget or timewise. They could of course just have thought eh i could write a better ending myself screw this guy
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In the mind of the hacks who wrote it i assume it's done to show how she's now a shrewd littlefinger like character who plays the game of thrones and schemes. But of course when you watch it in the show it's just as dumb as the rest of the season has been
It's a hard thing to be a fan of Sansa and Danny and not like Jon in this day and age. Even Tyrion is getting moronic.
Thankfully Clegane is unimportant enough and grumpy enough that he is hasn't been mess with too much.
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If i were to hazard a few baseless guesses i'm gonna say that either Martins planned pay off was based on a chain of events or character that they've already wasted or steered in a different direction. Either that or that his idea was too small and understated or too large in scope for them to handle it budget or timewise. They could of course just have thought eh i could write a better ending myself screw this guy
I can easily see "Danny becomes what she feared she would", "Sansa gain the throne by questionnable means".
Stannis kills his daughter make sense to me. Easy tragic end to a man with a mission.
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D&D:
Aren't you happy we subverterd your expectations by making you think an apocalyptic event that has been building up for thousands of years and for the entirety of the show would be important, instead of just being debuff for daenerys’ army?
At this point, I'm rooting for Game of Thrones to be as terrible as it can possibly be. If I can't get a good ending, give me the fucking worst.
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D&D:
Aren't you happy we subverterd your expectations by making you think an apocalyptic event that has been building up for thousands of years and for the entirety of the show would be important, instead of just being debuff for daenerys’ army?Meh it depends on your point of interest. Many prefer the politics to the fantasy and were happy the end was about the throne and not the overlord beyong the wall.
Me I'm mostly puzzled and wonder or it looks on a rewatched.
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Although The Long Night wasn't the penultimate episode, it felt like one. And the episode following the penultimate episode is the aftermath, where that big event that happened has some sort of effect on the characters, some shift in power, whatever. Regardless of the episode's position, it just follows.
The Long Night had absolute no effect on anyone! Sansa's the same. Arya's is still bloodthirsty as hell. Bran's still the same. Jon's the same. Daenerys lost Jorah but, he's a warrior, it happens. Everyone's bloody the same! No one lost an arm, no one lost an eye. It was a detour that, with the exception of a diminished army, has no bearing on the war with Cersei.
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I think they've completely effed the ending up already. If they really were going to dump the Night King storyline so easily, then they shouldn't have killed off Littlefinger so stupidly and in a way that just didn't work with his character. Also, the show works best when there is a balance between the two sides in the story, because that's what the principal characters, Jon and Dany, are dealing with. Fire and Ice, walkers and dragons, Targaryens and Starks, the North and the South. These dualities are what the story is about, for me, and I don't feel like i'm getting it from the show at all.
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Don't you love how D&D miss the obvious symbolism of the chair being a huge, monstrous, jagged abominable thing made by swords and created by a conqueror that no one should sit on.
I'll be repeating this when the final scene of the show happens and it's obviously a slow zoom out on whoever is sitting in that fucking chair as the theme song plays.
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Let's think back to Ned's or Rob's catastrophic mistakes, as my experience with the series was a marathon of season 1 before season 2 started, then a book reading month, where I had to wait little for the red weeding, I didn't had to wait a Talisa/Jen impulsed fallout for whatever time it was set up.
Ned's whole deal was to cast off the idealism out of the audience, the deal was set up to let him live in exile untill Joffrey did what he did best.
Many of Dany's fuckups have been either repeated offenses of dumb plans, or Euron's fleet teleporting and destroying her self-repairing fleet 3 times.
Cersei has been the inconsistent change between insane monster and posing politician. She managed to blow up the pope, and get away with it, that kind of political manuvering was handwaved away instead of the focus of at least a chapter.
And then there's the boy. Jon Snow. Blandest, constripated, zombie, magical heir, snow. Risking everything time after time, and scraping by miraclously, like he's some kind of chosen hero. But this wasn't supposed to be these kind of stories.
And don't forge the smartest man alive, who can't even predict how his sister would act. And values her life more, than the lives that would be inevitably lost in open war, or a long siege, and keeps holding up to his job not ownign up to these fuckups. I mean he couldn't see the night king killing and raising a dragon, but he didn't see cersei coming up with the "I'll do NOTHING" plan?
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If they were gonna discard the NK storyline anyway, then end that plot line in season 7, don't kill Littlefinger and actually develop the politics and Dannys downward spiral in all 6 episodes of season 8. More time for that would also mean less dumb jumping around on jetpacks and stupid Euron surprise attacks.
But hey, they needed to dangle the White Walker carrot in front of us for marketing.
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@TLC:
Don't you love how D&D miss the obvious symbolism of the chair being a huge, monstrous, jagged abominable thing made by swords and created by a conqueror that no one should sit on.
I'll be repeating this when the final scene of the show happens and it's obviously a slow zoom out on whoever is sitting in that fucking chair as the theme song plays.
This is so obvious and bad, I bet it will happen.
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So, Varys is suspicious of Dany because why? I'd guess once burned twice shy, but instantaneously going for the next Targaryen is.. something that Book Varys, who said "for the good of the realm" while laughing maniacly and stabing a man with his secret army of children, would do, instead of show Varys who said the same line in a praire and like doves flew up and shit.
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Yeah they really didn't know where they were going with that abruptly ended littlefinger plot. But that's just another case of them shaping and building a character in a whole different direction than the author did
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I think they've completely effed the ending up already. If they really were going to dump the Night King storyline so easily, then they shouldn't have killed off Littlefinger so stupidly and in a way that just didn't work with his character.
Book Baelish i presume will eventually die the same way he gained power: because of his low birth everyone around him underestimates or is just naive to his incredible skills. So when Sansa witnesses and is the one aware of what he did on several occasions, Baelish doesn't suspect a thing about her because he thinks lowly of her just like others did to him (plus the love interest). Eventually she will be his downfall or at the very least he wont die just because of a dude that can see the flow of time can just pinpoint his crimes without any concrete proof. His death even went against Westeros' lore of not killing your guests under your roof, plus nothing in the show ever suggested any aftermath of his death. D&D literally offed him because they had no idea what to do with him, and did so in an incredible unceremonious way where people would cheer just because they perceived him as one of the "bad guys".
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Ned's whole deal was to cast off the idealism out of the audience, the deal was set up to let him live in exile untill Joffrey did what he did best.
Exactly. NEd didn't die for being too honrobable. He died because Joffrey was moronic and the true second coming of the mad king.
Many of Dany's fuckups have been either repeated offenses of dumb plans, or Euron's fleet teleporting and destroying her self-repairing fleet 3 times.
I will say her biggest fuck up is that she seems to have infected everyone around her with pure stupidity. It makes sense to leave the naval battle to Yara and Dorne but they weirdly get ambush. It makes sense to use Tyrion to read Cersei but sadly he left his brain in s5 or s6.
Cersei has been the inconsistent change between insane monster and posing politician. She managed to blow up the pope, and get away with it, that kind of political manuvering was handwaved away instead of the focus of at least a chapter.
Cersei always made sense to me. She's just pure blunt force all the time and she doesn't get screwed because she has the biggest gun and keeps making bigger guns. Of course I think the lords would have gave up on her because Danny had the biggest gun and as far as they know she killed both the church and her son to seize power and can't be trusted.
And then there's the boy. Jon Snow. Blandest, constripated, zombie, magical heir, snow. Risking everything time after time, and scraping by miraclously, like he's some kind of chosen hero. But this wasn't supposed to be these kind of stories.
He did die once for his inability to understand people. But at least he had good reasons.
To me the worst will always be show Rob that got married for love when he already had a deal. I was so mad that I couldn't really feel bad at the red wedding.
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Oh yeah, the Sicansios XD.
I don't know how they can do the dub so fast or so un-leaked tho.
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If they were gonna discard the NK storyline anyway, then end that plot line in season 7, don't kill Littlefinger and actually develop the politics and Dannys downward spiral in all 6 episodes of season 8. More time for that would also mean less dumb jumping around on jetpacks and stupid Euron surprise attacks.
Lttlefinger was spinning his wheels at this point. It was time for him to go.
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So, Varys is suspicious of Dany because why? I'd guess once burned twice shy, but instantaneously going for the next Targaryen is.. something that Book Varys, who said "for the good of the realm" while laughing maniacly and stabing a man with his secret army of children, would do, instead of show Varys who said the same line in a praire and like doves flew up and shit.
I think his thinking is that if Danny is willing to kill the civilians inside to get the throne, she should not be on the throne. Danny was not willing to just sit and wait.
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Varys "I cut out little children's tounges to make them work for me" the spider, is against civilian casualties.
To be fair, he doesn't cut them himself, he just orders them delivered to him that way.
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Varys "I cut out little children's tounges to make them work for me" the spider, is against civilian casualties.
Well that's not killing. Also does he do that on the show?
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He abandoned the little bird net when he left King's landing, and they seem to be taken by Qiburn. And didn't say a peep.
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This show hasn't made sense for ages that Dorne plot was ridiculous. Especially bastards killing their Lord, his heir and taking control of Dorne. Don't get me started on that bad pussy.
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Lttlefinger was spinning his wheels at this point. It was time for him to go.
And whose fault was this? Dumb & Dumber were just incapable of writing better material for him.
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The dark powers of marketing and "coincidence"? are at it again
Book spoilers
! http://fortune.com/2019/04/11/game-of-thrones-winds-of-winter-release-timeline/ tldr; George suddenly has free time, but even if it's done regular book stuff has to happen, mainly edits.
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I'm damn curious to see what Winds of Winter will be. I'm hoping for a Part 1 and Part 2, releasing simultaneously, or a few months apart at least. With all the new fronts he opened up in the two last books, the numerous Greyjoy's running about, Davos's completely separate journey than that of his show counter-part, he can't possibly cram that into 1500 pages.
Stupid Fire and Blood detour!!!
EDIT: Rewatched a few clips of Jon Snow during his tenure as Lord Commander and before. What happened to that guy?
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About why Euron doesn't put two and two together about the baby, from David Nutters own mouth.
“I think Euron, he’s not paying that much attention,” Nutter said, explaining that the scene was more about Tyrion appealing to Cersei’s softer side.
Apparently, Tyrion wanted Cersei to “realize that she wasn’t a monster at all, that she was really, truly a mother.”
“That was an intense scene,” Nutter continued. “I think any type of Euron intrusion there would’ve weakened the intent of what we were trying to tell.”
Maybe this next episode they all kinda forget Cersei exists as well? Like they did with Eurons fleet according to one of the Dumb and Dumber crew.
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About why Euron doesn't put two and two together about the baby, from David Nutters own mouth.
“I think Euron, he’s not paying that much attention,” Nutter said, explaining that the scene was more about Tyrion appealing to Cersei’s softer side.
Apparently, Tyrion wanted Cersei to “realize that she wasn’t a monster at all, that she was really, truly a mother.”
“That was an intense scene,” Nutter continued. “I think any type of Euron intrusion there would’ve weakened the intent of what we were trying to tell.”
Maybe this next episode they all kinda forget Cersei exists as well? Like they did with Eurons fleet according to one of the Dumb and Dumber crew.
Meh. I feel people get news magically now.
Also Since Qyburn know it wouldn't be crazy to assume him or the queen sent a raven to announce a new heir to the irron throne and that's how Tyrion knows. It's not like she said she was keeping it a secret.
Also there could be a scene about it in the next episode.
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Nah, if they tried to sweep it away with author comment, then they didn't think about it when they wrote/record it.
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FUCK THIS SHOW
And anyone that had a hand in writing the second half of this episode.As far as I'm as concerned it didn't just jumped the shark it killed it, piss and shat on the corpse before happily raping it in the ass.
For a brief moment I thought they were about to make the right decision but then they took the wrongest decision in the worst possible way.! Danny wouldn't kill fucking civilians for the hell of it.They could have at least have soldiers mingling in the middle or the citizens refusing to surrender. But nope. She did it for the lolz. After they surrendered.
! She didn't go for the queen that killed her friend or the soldiers protecting her. Nope. Just the innocents.
! At least I'm glad they understood what being a mad queen is. It's not taking revenge Cersei. It's killing regular folks without reason.
! Fuck this show. Fuck this show. Fuck this show. Also they regressed Jaimie for the hell of it.
! Fuck this show. Wolfwood did you
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! Enjoy the Clegane bowl?
! It's been some time since a decision in fiction pissed me off so much.
! I finally give zero shit about Game of thrones and how it finish. After that shit it's not worth spending 1 hour into.
! Give John his fucking throne and be done with it. -
Shame they finally made an episode with good action, but EVERYTHING about the writing was so terrible that it's impossible to enjoy.
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Shame they finally made an episode with good action, but EVERYTHING about the writing was so terrible that it's impossible to enjoy.
I've always thought the moment when the show overtook the books was when the writing took a freefall. Now it's like a freefall with two 100lbs weights tied to each leg.
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! It's weird that the episode was just five minutes of Sandor and the Mountain fighting but I applaud the showrunners for focusing on the most important thing.
! Get hype. -
I like Cersei fine and she made the only play that could let her win last season but
! Could we stop pretending that she's a threat?
! Have Danny ride on her freaking dragon and burn the bitch down. And don't give me any the Dragons are hurt BS. I do not need a reapt of s7 where Danny sheer power meant she lost but we kept pretending that Cersei was making ground and delivering devastating blows.
! Cersei should have been dead s7. Cersei should be dead next episode.! Danny won the war in 10 minutes without bloodshed, with 2 dragons missing and a depleted army. It's almost as if the war was artificially stretched since s7 by writers to make Cersei last longer and artificially make Danny go mad queen.
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Endless Trash. Thank you Dumb & Dumber for reaching Dexter last season levels.
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It really is Dexter levels of bad, but at least I have the security that at least one character I love will survive.
God knows, Dexter had the entire fanbase saying "Don't kill off this ONE character", and they fucking did it. Then again, this show had people saying…
[hide]"Don't make Dany have a massive evil heel turn, cause that just says that the liberator of slaves is actually evil and we really don't fucking need that from the future writers of Confederate", but alas… [/hide]
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Well that was shit wasn't it.
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