Marvel Movies Thread - Holy Shitballs

[Demon Rin]

@MajinArekkusu:

Controversial opinion, but I want comcast to aquire Fox, instead of letting the mouse get its fingers on all of fox property and make mcu formulaic xmen movies, alien and so on.

Uh, a few things:

Marvel Studios is an autonimous entity with Disney. They're like Pixar. What that means is, the decisions Marvel Studios makes don't bleed over to other departments. You don't see Pixar copying Marvel for example, ditto with Lucasfilm.

I know saying anything positive about The Last Jedi is "controversial", but one thing even the haters can't deny is it didn't stick to the safe formulaic options. It took some major risks. Those risks didn't pay off for everyone, which is why there's so much hate going around for it.

Luke Skywalker being a jaded dude who didn't just come back and single-handedly stop the first order with his laser sword, everything they did with Snoke and Kylo Ren etc are all major risks and the exact opposite of what the "Safe" options for those same plot points were.

So this idea that Disney is going to somehow ruin creativity on all of the Fox aquisitions is ridiculous.

Obviously the Marvel properties (X-Men, FF) will be given to Marvel Studios, but all other Fox stuff like Alien shouldn't. So the idea that "The Marvel Formula" will be applied to non-Marvel properties holds absolutely no water whatsoever.

Bonus points if individual studios within the Fox umbrella are allowed to continue operating autonomously the same way they handled Pixar, Marvel, Lucasfilm etc. Then the decisions really won't change at all.

On top of all that however, I don't really see the "Formulaic" issue with Marvel either…

Marvel had a rocky start, but they've been hitting it out of the park for a while now and it does appear each movie is allowed to have its own identity with its director's style mostly shining through.

A Russo-directed Marvel movie doesn't feel the same as a Ryan Coogler directed one or a Taika Waititi directed one. I mean, Shane Black's style was all over Iron Man 3, James Gunn is allowed nearly complete creative freedom with the Guardians movies considering he's writing and directing them...

None of these movies feels "The same" to me, so I really don't get that complaint...

Plus, the only properties that would be subject to this hypothetical "Formula" are the X-Men and the Fantastic Four

Both of those series' are extremely inconsistent with quality.

X-Men 5/10 Good Movies (X2, First Class, DoFP, Logan, Deadpool)
Fantastic Four: 0/4 Good Movies

They don't exactly have good track records with EITHER property.

I'd much rather have Marvel apply their "Formula" to them and maybe we finally get a good Fantastic Four movie than to have someone else keep trying and failing hard because they care more about getting the movie out fast than they do getting it right.

Also... how does Comcast even have the ability to do this? I thought the deal was basically done and signed and we were just waiting for the Government to approve it and all the paperwork to go through... how are Comcast able to upend the whole thing now?

[Count Mario]

As someone who is frequently less than satisfied with MCU movies compared to most people, I am willing to admit that they've gotten a better track record in impressing me recently. Since Phase 3 started, they've really improved on being less by the numbers plot-wise. And all of the series have clear niches by now that makes them standout while still being similar in tone just enough for them to crossover without whiplash. My only issues now is that I still find the humor to sometimes be forced (I'm dreading Ant-Man and the Wasp, Homecoming 2, and Guardians Vol 3 in this department), they can still up their villain game (sorry, I'm not impressed by Thanos. And while I like Killmonger and Vulture, they can still go further), making long-term consequences count (which is a frequent complaint I see about Infinity War), and being more open to planning out their individual series ahead of time instead of mainly putting crossovers first and letting the directors mostly wing it for each solo installment.

But yeah, we're not losing much if Marvel gets Fantastic Four and X-Men back. Especially the Fantastic Four lol. And we NEED their rogues gallery if we expect the MCU to last another decade after Thanos.

But I'm still struggling to see how they will make Mutant prejudice work in a universe where superheroes are worshipped as celebrities that mostly don't care about secret identities if the X-Men get integrated in the MCU. It works in the Netflixverse for Jessica Jones because that's distant enough in the movies and focuses mostly on interacting with average dumb New Yorkers. I can only picture them just… ignoring the other superheroes like the comics have always done and focusing on plots that focus less on the prejudice aspect, even though that is a big thing that makes the X-Men unique.

What's funny is that I can actually see the prejudice aspect of the X-Men working if the Sokovia Accords technically still being in play at the end of Civil War actually got the focus and consequences it deserves besides Captain America wearing black and going underground (which hardly matters because he teams up with the Avengers anyways like usual), which would allow hysteria to spread around unregulated vigilantes being born in bulk. And maybe throwing in a little focus on how all of the superheroes we know are from space and artificially created. Racism and homo/transphobia are obviously dumb as hell and happen recurrently despite so many clear cut arbitrary double standards, so it can happen with enough planning.

But I don't have much confidence in authentic X-Men stories working as of right now without visual proof yet. And they can still have a whole universe of their own as seen with Fox, so keeping them stuck to mainly just the occasional single and installment and maybe a single spinoff for someone like Deadpool doesn't feel too optimal. Yet I don't see them resisting the bank in having Wolverine join the Avengers to fight Hulk at all, so...

[MetaMario]

re: the everyone speaking English thing

It's just one of those tropes used for convenience, even if it doesn't make too much sense.

@Count:

But I'm still struggling to see how they will make Mutant prejudice work in a universe where superheroes are worshipped as celebrities that mostly don't care about secret identities if the X-Men get integrated in the MCU.

Alas, this is what really takes me out of X-Men stories. I'm so used to viewing the Marvel heroes as a collective, and my own experience is too used to characterizing the mutants as more physical than anything else.

Seeing Mystique on the street late at night? I can understand the recoil.
Seeing Magneto on the street late at night? "nice duds, geezer, you lose a bet?"

[Kaido King of the Beasts]

I remember reading an Ultimate Spider-Man comic where the X-Men were put in this Hunger Games-survival type tournament. Spider-Man ended up being in the tournament by accident and the audience encouraged him to attack the mutants and he was like WHAT THE SHIT guys

[Count Mario]

@Kaido:

I remember reading an Ultimate Spider-Man comic where the X-Men were put in this Hunger Games-survival type tournament. Spider-Man ended up being in the tournament by accident and the audience encouraged him to attack the mutants and he was like WHAT THE SHIT guys

Well then… That sounds kind of dumb. At least out of context without knowing why Mutants are regarded differently from heroes in that universe compared to superheroes. I know that they get a lot of collective blame for Magneto flooding New York with a tsunami, but that still sounds like a silly generalization to split off from supers in general.

[Demon Rin]

@Count:

But yeah, we're not losing much if Marvel gets Fantastic Four and X-Men back. Especially the Fantastic Four lol. And we NEED their rogues gallery if we expect the MCU to last another decade after Thanos.

Definitely.

I've been getting caught up in Marvel Comics lately and I just read both the Jonathan Hickman run and the Matt Fraction run of Fantastic Four/Future Foundation (Moloids FTW!) and I've kinda fallen hard in love with the FF at their best, so not having a good movie with these characters is criminal.

Plus, all of their villains. Kang/Immortus, Mole Man, The Mad Thinker, Annihilus, Wizard, Galactus, and especially Dr. Freaking. Doom all would be great in this universe. Dr. Doom is damn near a necessity.

Also, is it bad that I want a Mole Man appearance specifically so we can get the Moloids? Mik, Korr, Turg, and especially Tong are the objective best ever and need to be in a movie as soon as they can logically be written into one.

@Count:

What's funny is that I can actually see the prejudice aspect of the X-Men working if the Sokovia Accords technically still being in play at the end of Civil War actually got the focus and consequences it deserves besides Captain America wearing black and going underground (which hardly matters because he teams up with the Avengers anyways like usual), which would allow hysteria to spread around unregulated vigilantes being born in bulk. And maybe throwing in a little focus on how all of the superheroes we know are from space and artificially created. Racism and homo/transphobia are obviously dumb as hell and happen recurrently despite so many clear cut arbitrary double standards, so it can happen with enough planning.

This is the only way I see it working in the movies.

The beginnings are there to make this work. The Sokovia Accords prove that people aren't just 100% cool with the Avengers, so…. maybe? Maybe that can be used as the spark to really sew the seeds of the prejudice... but it'll take time and effort, it won't be easy.

@Count:

But I don't have much confidence in authentic X-Men stories working as of right now without visual proof yet. And they can still have a whole universe of their own as seen with Fox, so keeping them stuck to mainly just the occasional single and installment and maybe a single spinoff for someone like Deadpool doesn't feel too optimal. Yet I don't see them resisting the bank in having Wolverine join the Avengers to fight Hulk at all, so…

Honestly, I think the best way to merge the universes now without much effort feels very simple to me. Do one last X-Men movie set in the original universe:

X-Men: House of M.

Introduce Wanda played by Elizabeth Olsen into The X-Men universe. Say she's Magneto's daughter from Apocalypse who didn't really die because of her Reality Warping Powers and then do a version of House of M with the current X-Men Cast.

Have it end with "No More Mutants", verify somehow that her doing this created the MCU Universe where Mutants never existed, and give some kind of hint that Mutantkind can somehow make a return in this new universe.

That's possibly the neatest and tidiest way to do it, but that also technically folds the existing Fox X-Verse into the MCU as an alternate past of it, and YMMV on whether you think that's a good idea or not, but it could be made to work.

Bonus points if you bring Tobey McGuire back to play Spider-man in the House of M Universe, thus doing the same to the Raimi Spider-Man films.

@Count:

Well then… That sounds kind of dumb. At least out of context without knowing why Mutants are regarded differently from heroes in that universe compared to superheroes. I know that they get a lot of collective blame for Magneto flooding New York with a tsunami, but that still sounds like a silly generalization to split off from supers in general.

Also, the comics are somewhat inconsistent about why the Mutatns are hated and feared while the rest of the Marvel Heroes aren't, but the general gist of how it's supposed to go from what I can tell is this:

People are more ok with heroes like Iron Man, Cap, Thor, and Spidey because they all get their powers from something tangible that can be quantified.

Iron Man: Made a suit of armor. Is just a normal guy otherwise.

Cap: Injected with a man-made serum that made him Super.

Spider-Man: Bitten by a Radioactive Spider that was part of a scientific test.

Thor: Not even from Earth. Gets his power from Magical Odinforce and a Magical Hammer

Mutants meanwhile, are just born with their powers. Just regular people like anyone else who came out of the womb with an X-Gene. Can be anyone or anywhere.

It's sort of the same thing behind the psychology of conspiracy theories.

Scary things are less scary if they can be controlled. The heroes that got their powers through science and magic feel like something more quantifiable and controlled than anybody ranomly just being given powers because of the X-Gene.

Also, it's in part driven by the same psychology causing a lot of the racism we have in the world right now. The fear that Homo-Superior will someday become the dominant species on earth and Homo-Sapiens will become second class citizens. This is something we're kinda dealing with in the real world right now actually.

It IS kinda flimsy the way they handle it however, so I'm not saying this is perfect or anything, just trying to explain it as best I can.

[Count Mario]

@Demon:

It IS kinda flimsy the way they handle it however, so I'm not saying this is perfect or anything, just trying to explain it as best I can.

Don't worry, I get you completely.

Maybe alongside the Sokovia Accords, it could maybe work if the X Gene is treated more like an illness. Either literally like how the Inhumans are created or as a flawed common belief similar to how people think certain allergies are signs of contagious lepers. And you know what, they shouldn't even hide from the fact that people might think the idea of being born with powers like Spider-Man and Captain America would be cool. Maybe try tying that into the first few Mutants experiencing a popular fad about how "You can give birth to the next Avenger!" or something stupid like that. But something goes wrong like the Lagos incident and everybody changes their mind. Actually, no, go even further than that with an event like how Nitro blew up a town where it is a tragedy through and through that nobody can wave off with a "well, at least The Avengers contained the threat to just a building or two". Add in some Mutants setting up their own rebellious gangs or whatever so that people can't tell the "good" mutants from the "bad" mutants and the prejudice ball can start rolling as Mutants that have already stayed hidden for decades start emerging because of their existence being outed.

Basically, show the process leading Mutants come to be hated for at least the first X-Men MCU movie's first act rather than treating this prejudice as an already existent status-quo. Throw in some government pushback against unregulated Mutants with the Sokovia Accords, maybe add in societal phobias about another Thanos 50% humanity genocide event happening, and MAYBE this can work. Maybe. I'm trying my best to help hold my faith in Marvel.

[.access timeco.]

Watched. LOVED it. Cried a thousand times. Thank god I managed to stay completely spoiler free, so everything was a surprise. After the movie ended, I actually got my jaw dropped until somewhere around 70% of the credits.

! It's obvious everything will be undone, but whatever. If I stop watching the movies now that was just the perfect ending - obviously, I was rooting for Thanos even though I thought there was zero chances of him succeeding. I just wish they didn't put any post-movie scene, it tainted the desolate ending.
! EDIT: Ok, some points:

• Like I said, Thanos. God, I loved him. His scenes with Gamora were definitely my favorites in the movie, particularly their dialogue on his ship leading to Nebula's appearance.
• Again, I may be biased because I dislike the character, but all the Thor wankery got me annoyed. Also, his humor was the only one I thought was too much on the movie (like, your people, your best friend and your brother were just killed in front of you as you failed to protect them, but here you are trying to win a witty competition with the GotG?).
• Talking about humor, I have a problem with how much the MCU uses it in scenes that don't really benefit from it. That said, I loved how in this movie they kept the excessive humor fixed to some characters, so instead of sounding out of place it actually sounded like the characteristic of those characters. Parker was always the harmless one-liner guy and the GotG sounding SO absurd that even Tony was put off by their antics gave me a serious Strawhats vibe in the most positive way. "Again, I may be biased" since Parker and the GotG are my favorite characters in MCU.
• I saw some people complaining about Starlord going nuts about Gamora's death even though he had the resolve to (try to) kill her before. I liked that, actually. That's how humans work, just because you manage to gather every ounce of resolve in your mind in one moment so you could sacrifice what you loved the most doesn't mean you instantly raised to Yoda's level of detachment. If anything, I felt that made the SL more real.
• What the fuck with T'Challa's absolute lack of relevance? Wakanda was relevant, but T'Challa as a character didn't even got a single scene to shine. It is particularly weird since they should be riding the hype left by his own recent movie. Also I was dying for some "feral like" action. At least Okoye and Shuri were there and had their moments and, let's face it, Black Panther was all about them and Nakia. Wonder if there was some contractual problem with Lupita Nyong'o, btw.
• At some point, as Thanos started kicking everybody's ass, I wondered "why am I rooting for the villain? Why do I always root for the villains?". The questions was still lingering in my head as Thanos was shown appreciating his sunset and I felt like he completely deserved it.
• But yes, pretty obvious this is all according to Strange's vision of the only positive outcome out of 14 millions. Probably the reason there was just one victory path among over 14 million possibilities is because that's how absurdly unlikely it was that he would give the Time Stone away to save Stark - and the scene didn't even had any emotional weight, so the more likely he didn't really did it to save him, but rather to make that one outcome come true.

[Green_vs_Red]

@Count:

Well then… That sounds kind of dumb. At least out of context without knowing why Mutants are regarded differently from heroes in that universe compared to superheroes. I know that they get a lot of collective blame for Magneto flooding New York with a tsunami, but that still sounds like a silly generalization to split off from supers in general.

The storyline being alluded to happens before Ultimatum though from what I gleaned from the Ultimate Spider-Man books mutants weren't that well liked before that..

It's more more infamous though for featuring a Deadpool who is anti mutant and surprisingly a no nonsense character.

[MrPecans]

@.access:

Watched. LOVED it. Cried a thousand times. Thank god I managed to stay completely spoiler free, so everything was a surprise. After the movie ended, I actually got my jaw dropped until somewhere around 70% of the credits.

! It's obvious everything will be undone, but whatever. If I stop watching the movies now that was just the perfect ending - obviously, I was rooting for Thanos even though I thought there was zero chances of him succeeding. I just wish they didn't put any post-movie scene, it tainted the desolate ending.
! EDIT: Ok, some points:

• Like I said, Thanos. God, I loved him. His scenes with Gamora were definitely my favorites in the movie, particularly their dialogue on his shape leading to Nebula's appearance.
• Again, I may be biased because I dislike the character, but all the Thor wankery got me annoyed. Also, his humor was the only one I thought was too much on the movie (like, your people, your best friend and your brother were just killed in front of you as you failed to protect them, but here you are trying to win a witty competition with the GotG?).
• Talking about humor, I have a problem with how much the MCU uses it in scenes that don't really benefit from it. That said, I loved how in this movie they kept the excessive humor fixed to some characters, so instead of sounding out of place it actually sounded like the characteristic of those characters. Parker was always the harmless one-liner guy and the GotG sounding SO absurd that even Tony was put off by their antics gave me a serious Strawhats vibe in the most positive way. "Again, I may be biased" since Parker and the GotG are my favorite characters in MCU.
• I saw some people complaining about Starlord going nuts about Gamora's death even though he had the resolve to (try to) kill her before. I liked that, actually. That's how humans work, just because you manage to gather every ounce of resolve in your mind in one moment so you could sacrifice what you loved the most doesn't mean you instantly raised to Yoda's level of detachment. If anything, I felt that made the SL more real.
• What the fuck with T'Challa's absolute lack of relevance? Wakanda was relevant, but T'Challa as a character didn't even got a single scene to shine. It is particularly weird since they should be riding the hype left by his own recent movie. Also I was dying for some "feral like" action. At least Okoye and Shuri were there and had their moments and, let's face it, Black Panther was all about them and Nakia. Wonder if there was some contractual problem with Lupita Nyong'o, btw.
• At some point, as Thanos started kicking everybody's ass, I wondered "why am I rooting for the villain? Why do I always root for the villains?". The questions was still lingering in my head as Thanos was shown appreciating his sunset and I felt like he completely deserved it.
• But yes, pretty obvious this is all according to Strange's vision of the only positive outcome out of 14 millions. Probably the reason there was just one victory path among over 14 million possibilities is because that's how absurdly unlikely it was that he would give the Time Stone away to save Stark - and the scene didn't even had any emotional weight, so the more likely he didn't really did it to save him, but rather to make that one outcome come true.

Glad you also loved Thanos. I remember thinking "wow, he's like Namek-era Frieza levels of intimidating." They nailed him. I like Thor, but whatever. :)

[BattleFranky69]

@Count:

Don't worry, I get you completely.

Maybe alongside the Sokovia Accords, it could maybe work if the X Gene is treated more like an illness. Either literally like how the Inhumans are created or as a flawed common belief similar to how people think certain allergies are signs of contagious lepers. And you know what, they shouldn't even hide from the fact that people might think the idea of being born with powers like Spider-Man and Captain America would be cool. Maybe try tying that into the first few Mutants experiencing a popular fad about how "You can give birth to the next Avenger!" or something stupid like that. But something goes wrong like the Lagos incident and everybody changes their mind. Actually, no, go even further than that with an event like how Nitro blew up a town where it is a tragedy through and through that nobody can wave off with a "well, at least The Avengers contained the threat to just a building or two". Add in some Mutants setting up their own rebellious gangs or whatever so that people can't tell the "good" mutants from the "bad" mutants and the prejudice ball can start rolling as Mutants that have already stayed hidden for decades start emerging because of their existence being outed.

Basically, show the process leading Mutants come to be hated for at least the first X-Men MCU movie's first act rather than treating this prejudice as an already existent status-quo. Throw in some government pushback against unregulated Mutants with the Sokovia Accords, maybe add in societal phobias about another Thanos 50% humanity genocide event happening, and MAYBE this can work. Maybe. I'm trying my best to help hold my faith in Marvel.

Is it even necessary for that to be why people hate mutants? There's already plenty of Inhuman prejudice going on, some of it government-mandated and not remotely unwarranted given how some of them have acted, or whose powers were just out of control. Just add another element of 'well, now they don't need to undergo Terrigenesis, there's a whole new brand of powered human popping up who can potentially manifest their abilities at even younger ages and have even less control for us to worry about.' Too few people have access to Iron Man levels of tech, the Super Soldier Serum of Cap is difficult to obtain and all but two of them are even alive, Thor's from off-world and has tons of other crap to deal with that doesn't even concern earth, so the only Avenger that isn't really someone the public can feel 'cool' with is Hulk because apparently it's not that hard to replicate what created him and even he doesn't really have control, or not as much as the others, so he's kind of liability still. It still doesn't make sense for people not to paint all extraordinary beings with the same brush but they're going to do it, and we should expect it of them.

[Count Mario]

@BattleFranky69:

Is it even necessary for that to be why people hate mutants? There's already plenty of Inhuman prejudice going on, some of it government-mandated and not remotely unwarranted given how some of them have acted, or whose powers were just out of control. Just add another element of 'well, now they don't need to undergo Terrigenesis, there's a whole new brand of powered human popping up who can potentially manifest their abilities at even younger ages and have even less control for us to worry about.' Too few people have access to Iron Man levels of tech, the Super Soldier Serum of Cap is difficult to obtain and all but two of them are even alive, Thor's from off-world and has tons of other crap to deal with that doesn't even concern earth, so the only Avenger that isn't really someone the public can feel 'cool' with is Hulk because apparently it's not that hard to replicate what created him and even he doesn't really have control, or not as much as the others, so he's kind of liability still. It still doesn't make sense for people not to paint all extraordinary beings with the same brush but they're going to do it, and we should expect it of them.

We don't talk about the Inhumans. Ever. And Inhuman prejudice is also dumb. Slightly less dumb than Mutants since it's at least caused by a contagion, but still dumb.

[Demon Rin]

It's hard to take the Inhumans seriously when their king, one of the strongest among them, is constantly relegated to the Marvel Universe's Premier Example of the Worf Effect

[Ruin]

Lockjaw has always been the only truly good member of the inhumans

[y2kyle89]

The Mutants "prejudice for what you were born as" narrative doesn't work for the InHumans. They should have gone with a "victims learning to live to what happened" narrative. Or not try to remove the mutants and patch over the hole with something else. That would work too.

[Md-Martin]

The Inhuman prejudice -From AoS's POV concerning the MCU- does make sense in my mind. The world pretty much found out that over the course of months they were left in the dark over the fact that a substance was released in the oceans that will drastically effect a portion of the population that just found out that they are the descendents of people who were mixed with alien genetics.

It works on not just the level that Mutants do, but with the additional element of surprise. For a Mutant, by the time you were 18 or so you'd know for sure whether you had powers or not. As we've seen with AoS, small children and adults alike were effected. Imagine someone Robin's age with Daisy's powers. That's the paranoia and prejudice.

Now as far as the comics:

Any prejudice around Mutants, Inhumans, or any other variety of people given powers against their will is idiotic if they're accepting of some powered individuals, but not others.

It's why I'd be absolutely happy with the X-men -rebooted or not- remaining separate from the MCU. Just coexisting nullifies the narrative for me. I think there is a reasonable line that can be held to explain why certain characters don't crossover all of the time(The X-men being based in Weschester for example, rather than NYC) but it's when it effects the worldbuilding that the line gets blurred.

The ultimate universe did play with it a bit better, but that also ties into the fact that at that point in the continuity, Mutants were only just becoming publicly known and being fought against. If I remember correctly, the first issue of Ultimate X-men was a Sentinel being sent after Bobby Drake with Scott and the rest saving him.

And of course, most of the Ultimate universe was a shithole world anyway, so everyone was getting hated on. Peter Parker had his normal crew of bad PR, but the rest of the superhero community seemed under more public awareness than the mainstream Marvel continuity.

I mean looking at events like Civil War are just silly when you think that the majority of them would just stay neutral.

[maxterdexter]

A person is smart, people are panicky petty and voluble.

What I'm saying is that the mutant hate is illogical, but not impossible and also doesn't surprise me.

[Satsuki]

It's easy to be scared of something/someone you think is more powerful than you and possibly dangerous. It takes understanding/compassion to not let that fear take over.

What did Yoda say? "Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering."

[Robby]

@Demon:

X-Men 5/10 Good Movies (X2, First Class, DoFP, Logan, Deadpool)
Fantastic Four: 0/4 Good Movies

Even that's generous. X2 hasn't aged well. Outside of the opening scene with Nightcrawler and some of the wolverine stuff, it's… not as good as people remember back when it was basically the only superhero movie around.
And DoFP was a mess that had some okay visuals that gets way more credit than it deserves for "fixing" the other movies.

First Class is the only good straight up X-Men movie they've done.. and then for some reason they dropped that director and went back to the guy that doesn't get it.

Logan is legit good, but its only barely X-Men... it mostly works on the basis of being the farewell for the actors playing the roles after 20 years and by being its own dark thing. You could take the mutant powers out of it (and obviously any wounds that required healing factor) and it'd be mostly unchanged.

Deadpool, same deal. It's side characters are the most X-Men like they've ever been, and the sequel looks like its going full on X-Force, but it's also... Deadpool. A completely different beast overall.

1 good X-Men movie, 2 good not X-Men movies. Then two terrible Wolverine movie, and five not good X-men movies.

[Count Mario]

@Md-Martin:

The Inhuman prejudice -From AoS's POV concerning the MCU- does make sense in my mind. The world pretty much found out that over the course of months they were left in the dark over the fact that a substance was released in the oceans that will drastically effect a portion of the population that just found out that they are the descendents of people who were mixed with alien genetics.

It works on not just the level that Mutants do, but with the additional element of surprise. For a Mutant, by the time you were 18 or so you'd know for sure whether you had powers or not. As we've seen with AoS, small children and adults alike were effected. Imagine someone Robin's age with Daisy's powers. That's the paranoia and prejudice.

That's cool. I haven't watched Agents of SHIELD though. I was talking about THE Inhumans lol.

Now as far as the comics:

Any prejudice around Mutants, Inhumans, or any other variety of people given powers against their will is idiotic if they're accepting of some powered individuals, but not others.

It's why I'd be absolutely happy with the X-men -rebooted or not- remaining separate from the MCU. Just coexisting nullifies the narrative for me. I think there is a reasonable line that can be held to explain why certain characters don't crossover all of the time(The X-men being based in Weschester for example, rather than NYC) but it's when it effects the worldbuilding that the line gets blurred.

Same. But we know that Marvel is going to want to bank on Wolverine/X-Men crossovers with the Avengers. It is the only way for them to truly top Avengers 3 and 4 anyways.

The ultimate universe did play with it a bit better, but that also ties into the fact that at that point in the continuity, Mutants were only just becoming publicly known and being fought against. If I remember correctly, the first issue of Ultimate X-men was a Sentinel being sent after Bobby Drake with Scott and the rest saving him.

And of course, most of the Ultimate universe was a shithole world anyway, so everyone was getting hated on. Peter Parker had his normal crew of bad PR, but the rest of the superhero community seemed under more public awareness than the mainstream Marvel continuity.

Pretty much.

I mean looking at events like Civil War are just silly when you think that the majority of them would just stay neutral.

Well that's because most of the characters in the original comic book event are written out of character for dramatic convenience, so…

[Robby]

The Civil War comic was a fantastic idea. And the pitch as presented, where "both sides will be right" sounded really cool.

Awful, awful execution.

The biggest problems were
1-The writers were universally on the side of "keep being vigilanties, screw getting registered." I didn't read ALL the spinoffs but it was pretty much all anti-registration, no balance.
2-They never spelled out EXACTLY what the registration act entailed. It varied from writer to writer. It ranged from "get police training and a paycheck" to "treat you like a criminal with no rights that we can use lethal force on." And it never figured out exactly the degree that people had to give up their secret identities.
3-Tony Stark, Reed Richards, etc. went straight up super villain with concentration camps, no trials, murdering heroes, cloning, hiring villains to do the work, launching Hulk into space etc. Which while you can see them doing one or two such things, ALL of them was just completely out of character.
4-These guy have fought together and saved the world together hundreds of times, for decades, even in marvel time. It would never, ever, ever have gotten to the point that it did for entire halves of the community.

Also, Spiderman revealing his identity was a stupid publicity stunt that would have been interesting if it had actually stuck as the status quo from then on, but it was One More Dayed out just a few months later.

I always say this, but if that event had happened two years later AFTER the Iron Man movie came out, and Tony switched from B lister to no one cared about, to likeable face of the franchise, it would have been written completely differently.

The movie handled it better in that it was only a dozen guys, they had ONE group fight between them, and it was all about protecting/capturing a single criminal. The same scenario does NOT work when you have 2,000 heroes. 2,000 villains roaming free, and countless mutants.

[maxterdexter]

Comic book time is so weird, just skimmed the "captain hydra" storiline, and hydramerica seemed like at the very least was a state for like 6 months in timeskips, but the time keeps in sync with the publication date.

[Monquito]

There is no storyline, just multiverse, countless reboots and a massive will to keep screwing up the readers.

[Neaeran]

Isn't the ending of the comic storyline something dumb like … Cap looking around and saying "OMG, what have we done?" And then it just pretty much stops?

[Cyclone_Baroness]

Infinity War opened in China so far it's around $76 million.

[Green_vs_Red]

@Neaeran:

Isn't the ending of the comic storyline something dumb like … Cap looking around and saying "OMG, what have we done?" And then it just pretty much stops?

That's the end of the conflict but not the story.

[Satsuki]

Deadpool is Deadpool.

[y2kyle89]

Kevin Feige

for a Miss Marvel movie after Captain Marvel.

Kamala making it big.

[Insider2000]

@y2kyle89:

Kevin Feige

for a Miss Marvel movie after Captain Marvel.

Kamala making it big.

Fuck yeah! I know people have been saying that Captain Marvel should totally have an after credit sequence showing Kamala, but now I'm even more hyped.

[Sano]

I'm hyped for Kamala to be part of the MCU.

[TrowaAyanami]

[Demon Rin]

@Robby:

The biggest problems were
1-The writers were universally on the side of "keep being vigilantes, screw getting registered." I didn't read ALL the spinoffs but it was pretty much all anti-registration, no balance.

This is so true. Even for the characters who were supposed to be pro-registration. She-Hulk's book includes her defending the surviving New Warriors from being slandered and attacked by a shady website, meanwhile Captain Marvel (Ms. Marvel at the time), who is one of Tony's top enforcers, has her faith in the Registration act rocked when she's sent to apprehend Julia Carpenter (Spider-Woman II) for failing to register when Julia insists she wants to retire to take care of her kid….

Even Tony Stark's solo book paints him as being not sure. Part of Tony's characterization here, at least from earlier in the event, was that he wasn't 100% on board with the act either. He basically took Black Widow's stance from the movie where "Yeah, it sucks and I'd prefer we not have it, but it's going to happen whether we like it or not, so it's better if we fall in line and accept it so we can help shape it"...

Hell, even Reed Richards, who is completely Pro-registration compares it to McCarthyism...

@Robby:

2-They never spelled out EXACTLY what the registration act entailed. It varied from writer to writer. It ranged from "get police training and a paycheck" to "treat you like a criminal with no rights that we can use lethal force on." And it never figured out exactly the degree that people had to give up their secret identities.

This infuriated me so I'm glad I'm not the only one bothered by it.

"You just have to register with the government. Only the Government and/or Tony will know your identity, you get trained and paid, it's fine"

or

"Your name will be a matter of public record, otherwise all the same as above"

or

"Your real name will be treated as one of the above, we're not sure, but you're now basically drafted into a Superhero Army where you have to fight supervillains even if you don't want to"

No consistensy whatsoever. What would have been cool is if somebody sat down and actually wrote out basically the whole act (it doesn't have to be as long as a real government act, just cover all the basics) and then they printed one of those free #0 issues for an event that really just recaps information and gives character bios to get people up to speed and print the act "in full" in this book, and then every writer follows that…

@Monquito:

There is no storyline, just multiverse, countless reboots and a massive will to keep screwing up the readers.

Uh, actually no.

I mean, if we're talking comics in general then yeah I guess, DC has rebooted a bit… but not nearly as much as everyone thinks. They've only had 2 major reboots:

Crisis on Infinite Earths happened in the 80s
Flashpoint Happened in 2011

and that's really it for actual universe-wide reboots. There have been smaller-scale rebootesque events that only changed a few things rather than the whole universe, but even those weren't TOO numerous.

There was just:

Zero Hour: Crisis in Time
Infinite Crisis
Convergence
& Rebirth

One of the big things about Marvel is they've NEVER done an actual full-on Reboot. They've had a few continuity wipes, but they are always localized to one specific event or situation like One More Day wiping out Spider-Man's marriage... but keeping almost everything else that happened to Spidey during those years or... Tony Stark's brain being deleted to get rid of the Superhero Registration Act Database so Norman Osborn couldn't get his hands on it and then restoring him from a "Backup" he'd made of us his own brain... BEFORE the Civil War even happened so... you know, rebooting Tony back to the good guy he was before Civil War complete with being horrified at the things he did… lol

What is up with Marvel and wanting to restore characters to previous status quos without doing the leg work required to get them there?

I wouldn't be surprised if the Phone Call about One More Day went like this:

"We want swingin' single Spider-Man back? Ok, maybe we should have him determine that being Spidey is going to get MJ killed one day so they get a divorce and then we tell the very potentially interesting story of how that affects them both as characters and as people and have him slowly get over the grief so that we can- Huh? We want him single RIGHT AWAY?... but that's not very natural.... I see... That's stupid and unrealistic, and realistic character emotions is usually the Marvel thin- Well what am I supposed to do?! Have him make a deal with the devil?!.......... I WAS JOKING JOE!!"

@y2kyle89:

Kevin Feige

for a Miss Marvel movie after Captain Marvel.

Kamala making it big.

Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss!!

[Green_vs_Red]

@Demon:

lol

What is up with Marvel and wanting to restore characters to previous status quos without doing the leg work required to get them there?

I wouldn't be surprised if the Phone Call about One More Day went like this:

"We want swingin' single Spider-Man back? Ok, maybe we should have him determine that being Spidey is going to get MJ killed one day so they get a divorce and then we tell the very potentially interesting story of how that affects them both as characters and as people and have him slowly get over the grief so that we can- Huh? We want him single RIGHT AWAY?… but that's not very natural.... I see... That's stupid and unrealistic, and realistic character emotions is usually the Marvel thin- Well what am I supposed to do?! Have him make a deal with the devil?!.......... I WAS JOKING JOE!!"

Or alternatively they could've just not have had the healers and reality warpers of the Marvel Universe suddenly become incapable of healing someone mortally wounded by a bullet leading to the deal with Mephisto. Hell they could've even had Peter get help from someone with the ability to travel through time but I guess they needed to save that (unoriginal) idea for Age Of Ultron and the current storyline in Spectacular.

[Demon Rin]

@Green_vs_Red:

Or alternatively they could've just not have had the healers and reality warpers of the Marvel Universe suddenly become incapable of healing someone mortally wounded by a bullet leading to the deal with Mephisto. Hell they could've even had Peter get help from someone with the ability to travel through time but I guess they needed to save that (unoriginal) idea for Age Of Ultron and the current storyline in Spectacular.

I honestly think there were several other ways to get the result they wanted (Unmarried Pete without baggage a divorce would bring, subtle changes to his status quo like Harry being alive again etc) WITHOUT resorting to "Spiderman makes a deal with the devil" … but if they are GOING To go there and have Mephisto magically undo everything, I don't think it's too terribly hard to fix the story.

Starting from a point where "He makes a deal with Mephisto that undoes his marriage and changes some continuity" is still the desired endpoint, all you really have to change are two fundamental things:

1: It's not Aunt May that gets shot, it's Mary Jane
and
2: she isn't dying, she's dead. The bullet killed her.

Suddenly the story makes about 100x more sense.

Still have Peter go to all the healers he can, especially Dr. Strange (more on him later) who all tell him they can't help... but THIS time it makes sense since death is still treated like a big deal in the Marvel U. When people die, it's treated like a sad thing they can't undo. Yes, everyone knows some magical plot device will bring them back later or they'll be revealed to be alive, but the point is: "Just resurrecting dudes" isn't something Dr. Doom or Dr. Strange can just DO so it makes sense that nobody can help.

Then the story plays out mostly the same. Peter still attacks Tony, but this time it's not because he won't pay for MJ's Treatment, but he's lashing out because his unmasking was Tony's idea. Mephisto still offers etc, everything, but it being MJ fundamentally changes everything.

NoW it suddenly actually makes sense why the price he wants is their marriage. It's now the typical "Deal with the Devil with a cruel twist" kinda things instead of "I want your marriage because I want your love... but you won't remember you were in love... and that somehow makes it... bad for you?" it becomes "I will bring her back, but then you can never have her".

They can still have the titular "One More Day" together by Mephisto bringing her back to prove he can actually resurrect her, but he tells them they have 24 hours for Peter to accept his deal or she'll die again.

The other major thing I'd change is that Peter is supposed to remember that they were married and he has to live with the knowledge that he gave up love with her to bring her back... then for your "Happy" ending, have Dr. Strange show up too late to stop the deal, but he decides the way to beat Mephisto is to wipe Peter's mind so that he's on the same page as MJ and the rest of the world without his consent.

Say there's a loophole in the magic where since Peter didn't ask Dr. Strange to do it, he can wipe Peter's mind without it breaking the deal he and Mephisto made and have Dr. Strange say it's a kindness he does for Peter because now that they "Beat" Mephisto with this loophole, Peter and MJ are free to (hopefully) one day be together again.

This basically fixes all the logical bullshit and narrative retreads that exist in the original story:

• We've seen Aunt May die a few times already in Spidey's history but never MJ in the main continuity, so that would feel like new ground being tread instead of "Oh, another 'Aunt May is dying' story?" that we got.
• We also saw Peter handle Aunt May's death much better in quite a few of those stories too so it fixes the logical leap of him handling this SO POORLY that a deal with the Devil seemed like a good idea.
• MJ actually being DEAD instead of just "Dying" fixes all of the logical failings with NOBODY being able to help.
• Having it be that he is supposed to remember the marriage and then undoing that by having Dr. Strange exploiting a loophole fixes the complete idiocy behind Mephisto's price.

The only problem it leaves is Spider-Man would STILL be making a deal with the devil which is pretty stupid in-and-of itself, but at least the overall story would make a lot more sense.

[MetaMario]

@Demon:

Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss!!

I thought Miss and Captain Marvel were the same person? Or is it a more detailed origin?

[Green_vs_Red]

Someone apparently liked that idea as it happened in a What If? story that ends with Peter murdering Kingpin and effectively driving Aunt May away.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

Someone apparently liked that idea as it happened in a What If? story that ends with Peter murdering Kingpin and effectively driving Aunt May away.

[Demon Rin]

@MetaMario:

I thought Miss and Captain Marvel were the same person? Or is it a more detailed origin?

Basically:

Captain Marvel was originally a guy named Mar-vell. A supporting character in his book was Carol Danvers who, through a super-sciencey accident (Or a "wish machine" depending on when the story was written) his DNA got merged with hers so instead of being a regular human she becomes half-human half-Kree and gets all his Kree powers.

She then begins to Superhero as Ms. Marvel for a long while. Mar-Vell at one point dies of cancer, and so the only "Marvel" running around the Marvel U is Carol as Ms. Marvel now*.

After a long while of this, in 2011 I think, during Avengers vs. X-Men there was a tie-in where they try to stop the Phoenix Force from destroying the Kree home world of Hala and Mar-vell gets resurrected to help stop it. He dies in the same story but at one point during it Carol is like "Captain Marvel… that name should go on..." and so shortly thereafter she adopts the name "Captain Marvel" for herself to carry on the name.

One "Captain Marvel" ongoing later and we hit her Second Ongoing under the new name and they introduced a young girl named Kamala Khan who is basically a superhero fangirl who writes actual fanfiction about heroes. Turns out she's an Inhuman who gets stretchy and enlarging powers kinda like Mr. Fantastic, and she ends up taking on the mantle of Ms. Marvel.

She's the one we're talking about.

*Pretty sure Jean Grey wasn't Marvel Girl anymore at this point.

[MetaMario]

Okay…....(this is a little confusing but thanks for the explanation! ^^)

I thought Miss became Captain to make the character's presence more significant, or something.

[Demon Rin]

@MetaMario:

Okay…....(this is a little confusing but thanks for the explanation! ^^)

Sorry, here's the bullet points:

• Guy named Mar-Vell becomes Captain Marvel
• Carol Danvers becomes Ms. Marvel
• Mar-Vell dies.
• Carol continues operating as Ms. Marvel for a while
• Someone else (Monica Rambeau) becomes "Captain Marvel" for a while but stops after a while (She's not important to explaining Kamala Khan so I left her out)
• After Avengers vs. X-Men she decides to take on the Captain Marvel mantle.
• Now Carol Danvers is Captain Marvel.
• A bit later, a superhero fangirl named Kamala Khan gets powers and takes on the name Ms. Marvel for herself.

Sorry, I tend to ramble when talking comic books. Didn't mean to be confusing T_T

@MetaMario:

I thought Miss became Captain to make the character's presence more significant, or something.

Yeah, that's the editorial reason it was changed. I'm talking more in-universe.

[Robby]

@MetaMario:

Okay…....(this is a little confusing but thanks for the explanation! ^^)

I thought Miss became Captain to make the character's presence more significant, or something.

Yes, but also legacy character tradition.

It's a little easier to wrap your head around the DC legacy characters because of the naming conventions they use and because they've had more straight up legacy characters. Impulse becomes Kid Flash, when Kid Flash becomes Flash. Robin graduates to Nightwing. Wonder Girl is is an offshoot of Wonder Woman. Three generations of Blue Beetles, but only the most recent one has transforming power armor with an alien scarab wired into his brain.

The character matures, they change out of their old name into something more appropriate for their stature or history… then a new kid comes along and takes their old name regardless of having a different power set.

It's a liiitle funkier in Marvel because time hasn't moved forward in quite the same way (due to the lack of universe reboot I guess) so there haven't been a whole lot of characters growing up and taking old names. X-men kids grow up eventually, generally around the same time a new group of X-kids is introduced in a new title... but they don't usually change their codenames. Generally its more like "Tony Stark can't be Iron Man for the moment, so War Machine steps up." Or "Captain America is replaced by Bucky, and then Falcon, and they both take the Captain America name."

[Demon Rin]

Curious right now as to whether or not this gets retconned later. I'm behind in Marvel and I've been playing catch up recently, but currently the reason given in Avengers vs. X-Men and the first issues of her first ongoing as Captain Marvel is what I know as the in-universe explanation for why she takes the name.

Here's her monologue from AvX from right after The Mar-Vell clone sacrificed himself for Hala:

@Carol Danvers:

He was everything I remembered. More. Not a moment's hesitation. Once he knew what it would take to save his people– He gave it willingly. His unrivaled nobility and courage. How we need him. How we need that pure valor. how much different things would be if he were still with us. And how much I miss my dear friend.

[Carol recapping who all was injured in the battle goes here]

In the face of the horror still awaiting us, the team's morale is surprisingly high. Infused by the nobility of a long-dead friend's selflessness and strength. The image of a lone man willing to sacrifice his opportunity for life for a world and people that forsook him. Inspired by the very notion such nobility is possible.

Captain Marvel.

The name will always define the best of us. Perhaps it should live on.

Then in the first issue of her first Captain Marvel ongoing, it picks up with no explanation of why she's suddenly considering taking Captain Marvel's name, just that she is and is on the fence about it, with Cap and Spidey both suggesting she take it.

I've only read up to the end of that first Captain Marvel ongoing where it ends with… her getting mind wiped thanks to a brain lesion.

Anyone who has read further know if this gets retconned later and they try to give a new explanation for why she took the mantle?

[MetaMario]

@Demon:

Sorry, here's the bullet points:

• Guy named Mar-Vell becomes Captain Marvel
• Carol Danvers becomes Ms. Marvel
• Mar-Vell dies.
• Carol continues operating as Ms. Marvel for a while
• Someone else (Monica Rambeau) becomes "Captain Marvel" for a while but stops after a while (She's not important to explaining Kamala Khan so I left her out)
• After Avengers vs. X-Men she decides to take on the Captain Marvel mantle.
• Now Carol Danvers is Captain Marvel.
• A bit later, a superhero fangirl named Kamala Khan gets powers and takes on the name Ms. Marvel for herself.

Sorry, I tend to ramble when talking comic books. Didn't mean to be confusing T_T

Heh, it's no trouble, it's nice that you're so enthusiastic about it ^^

So basically I guessed the outside reason but didn't know the in-universe context. Gotcha.

[KageKageKing]

http://comicbook.com/marvel/2018/05/13/avengers-4-quicksilver/

[maxterdexter]

I'd advice for tagging that into spoilers as:

Avengers 4 set hints:

! The plot has been all but confirmed to include time travel, as captured loki and old school costumes for the actors have been seen in sets like "the battle of new york"
! Also, it kind of has to, if we are getting our people back.

[KageKageKing]

Trier to, but omy mobile keyboard is kind of a pain today to do those advanced settings.

[Md-Martin]

If they do introduce Miss Marvel, I'd love for them to tie it into Agents of Shields, since they already did a plotline involving the general population being exposed to Terrigen. I know the chances of them doing it are slim, but it is her literal origin. I know the Inhumans are the black sheep of the MCU, but it'd be strange to change the origins of her powers to distance it.

[Demon Rin]

Deadpool 2 Review Embargo is up.

85% with 92 Reviews so far.

[BellisarioFaith]

@maxterdexter:

Avengers 4 set hints:

! The plot has been all but confirmed to include time travel, as captured loki and old school costumes for the actors have been seen in sets like "the battle of new york"
! Also, it kind of has to, if we are getting our people back.

! I'm also curious to see whether time traveling into the future happens, or if the story itself picks up a while after the snap, since apparently 1) there are also set pictures released that show Tony looking like he's really let himself go, with graying hair and apparent weight gain, and 2) Emma Fuhrmann has been cast to play a teenage Cassie Lang for the movie.

[Kaiolino]

@Demon:

Deadpool 2 Review Embargo is up.

85% with 92 Reviews so far.

Jeremy Conrad who spread BS that Deadpool tested disastrously is now backtracking that he was just posting one guy's opinion while at the same time retweeting bad reviews of the movie. Dude is 100% a paid shill.

[Insider2000]

Just pretty much spoiled all of Deadpool 2 for myself. I won't give much away, but I will leave one comment in the spoilers. It doesn't spoil the movie completely, but it does give away information for those of you who have certain doubts.

[hide]You're watching this movie for Deadpool. If you're here for anyone who didn't originate from the previous Deadpool movie, there is a large chance you are going to be disappointed. If you go into this movie acknowledging that it is a Deadpool movie and nothing else, you're going to enjoy it more.

More importantly, there are plans for an X-Force movie, so other subjects not discussed in this movie may be discussed in a more serious tone. So come for this movie purely for fun and Deadpool.

Unless you're here for Domino, in which case, get ready for more fun.[/hide]