Sanji did say: '' If that battle(vergo) would go on it would be bad.'' So take that as you wish.
What will happen with Sanji's Raid Suit?
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It came to mind that perhabs now we know the root of Sanji's bad relationship with Zoro. Because Zoro resembles things Sanji hates about his family - dedicating your entire life for contest of strength and supremacy. Throw in moments where he shows lack of compassion and he's just like Germa.
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It came to mind that perhabs now we know the root of Sanji's bad relationship with Zoro. Because Zoro resembles things Sanji hates about his family - dedicating your entire life for contest of strength and supremacy. Throw in moments where he shows lack of compassion and he's just like Germa.
Also, green hair like his bro.
But I don't think there's anything to it. It's weird when you think about it. How quiet Sanji was about anything regarding his family. No hints, no "you remind me of someone from my past" remarks. Nothing. It's almost like they weren't planned from the beginning. :ninja:
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Sanji is, as a cook, the guy with the biggest handicap as a fighter in the monster trio : he's only fighting with his feet…
Luffy have a DF and fight with every part of his body. Zoro have 3 swords.But whatever he's thinking, he still a Vinsmoke and a cook too, even if he denies the Vinsmoke part...Niji gives him the suit. It's not for nothing, i think he recognise him
as a skilled fighter: Sanji can handle things without having super-genetics mods, neither fighiting suit as a weapon, neither using arms.
He gives him the suit only for that and not for "thanking him". That's more by curiosity in my opinion. -
Btw, why is there no "Sanji uses the suit and it changes his personality". We get Sanji's evil twin.
Yeah, it's silly, but I'd love to see a rude womanizer Sanji who likes to drink and isn't above hitting women.
But seriously, there's a chance it's not a gift given out of benevolence. There might be some kind of a trap. Doesn't even have to be a serious one.
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It could also just be some meta thing where Oda added this bit to make it clear to the audience Sanji will never wear one.
And just a thing like @Kaido said where its more becomes like a drive for him to prove he doesn't ever need it in some way.
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It could also just be some meta thing where Oda added this bit to make it clear to the audience Sanji will never wear one.
And just a thing like @Kaido said where its more becomes like a drive for him to prove he doesn't ever need it in some way.
We would've gotten the message by it not being given to him in the first place…
Or hell, having Sanji actually toss it into the ocean successfully.
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The problem is hype versus reality. Do you believe in Sanji's strength because of the superstition that he's supposed to be part of monster trio and hence you use whatever hint as confrimation bias to keep believing it? Or would you rather believe in his strength due to him actually proving it in action?
Not when the reality is that said opponents have been clearly portrayed to be on a higher level than Sanji and proved it later in fights against stronger protagonists. Sanji had no problem against Sheepshead, a relatively important member of Kaido's crew, or against Raisin. So I don't think Oda or any character thinks Sanji is underperforming for someone of his stature; he just hasn't had a whole lot of chance to perform.
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@Kaido:
Not when the reality is that said opponents have been clearly portrayed to be on a higher level than Sanji and proved it later in fights against stronger protagonists. Sanji had no problem against Sheepshead, a relatively important member of Kaido's crew, or against Raisin. So I don't think Oda or any character thinks Sanji is underperforming for someone of his stature; he just hasn't had a whole lot of chance to perform.
They're going to fight Kaidou soon. Just beign at level he's supposed to be isn't enough, he needs to reach strength of yonkou commander soon. If not then it won't be SH crew anymore taking on major 1vs1 battles, because SHs are recruiting great number of strong allies that can outcompete main crew members with that role.
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Not sure how important Sheepshead is, considering he was given a poor man's devil fruit. And was one hit KO-d by Sanji. Similarly to Bobbin who, even though being relatively important in BM's crew, is far from being BMP heavy hitter.
For 5 arcs already we had Sanji partaking just in short skirmishes, so it's hard to actually gauge where he stands. So it's hard to actually gauge how much he needs that suit in the first place.
I want Sanji to have 2 decent fights by the time Wano is over. The opportunity might even come soon, considering Luffy is going to be pretty fucked up for a while, Jinbe was left behind and Sanji himself is relatively untouched. Who knows who they might encounter by the time they get to Wano. Maybe even some marines, considering they're busy all around providing escorts.
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@uniaka:
Sanji did say: '' If that battle(vergo) would go on it would be bad.'' So take that as you wish.
I think if Sanji had fought Vergo, he could have won, but that it would have been a Luffy vs Lucci or Katakuri level tooth-and-nail fight that would have f'd him up royally, and would ultimately be smarter to avoid, if possible. I think people's interpretation of that panel has been extreme.
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Doesn't help that with Nami in his body he took hits from explosions.
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The problem with the idea of the raid suit is that his training for 2 years wasn't enough. And that he as a fighting style isn't enough. I do think he'll wear it, (b/c it'll look cool) but it runs counter to his character b/c Sanji chooses to embrace Zeff as his father, yet will use the raid suit as his power instead of black leg fighting style.
Also it annoys me that Oda didn't bother giving him a big enough powerup post 2-year skip. OH WELL. Year of sanji = bust.
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I really don't like the idea of Sanji using the suit. Now first, it baffles me why Oda did that beautiful panel in Ch. 902 of Sani and Zeff together, proving he is Zeff's son once and for all, then the almost casual reveal of the raid suit this chapter. Yeah, maybe the Vinsmokes may be redeemed or something down the road, but for the time being, they still are jerkoffs on bad terms with Sanji, minus Reiju. Sanji has made it pretty darn clear he hates his family and their name and everything thy stand for, so him using the raid suit would be a very bitter moment.
For myself, the only somewhat acceptable use of it is like during the heat of action, Chopper putting it in his hand and pushing his palm so he inadvertently turns it on or something. Still not great, but if it's forced upon him, that's better then nothing.
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I don't see any of the SH use it, but, knowing that they probably meet with Vegapunk at some point, I hope it could be a way to interact with him.
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Noticed some fanart, man they even draw whitebeard in a germa suit lol, with other yonkou, then you get warlords in germa suit( fits mihawk so well xd), and the color spread with straw hats in germa suits is oda's work, right? This suit sure was a hit.
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I can't see it being a permanent part of Sanji's character starting now till end of series. He'll probably need to use it for a major fight or 2 coming up and then go back to relying on his own strength afterwards..
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The only way I will very begrudgingly accept Sanji wearing that thing is if it actually looks like an actual suit that Sanji would wear, just with like silly hi-tech diodes and Tron-like circuitry patterns.
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I like the option "The Raid Suit will become relevant again for yet unknown plot reasons, like Lola's Vivre Card"
Because as we all know. Lola's vivre card turned out to be completely useless.
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Only if you think helping Luffy win against Cracker was useless. Or otherwise completely neutralizing a forest where every object was an enemy and rendering only two people threats. Or helping us learn about Lola's role in everything. Or winning Pound's allegiance, which resulted in Sanji's cake making it off Cacao Island and preventing Big Mom from killing the Straw Hats.
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Why was Sanji's training badly handled? Because he doesn't have many feats in the New World?
I would find it more logical to say that Sanji's bad training lead to him not having "many feats" in the New World, just like, in the same way, Zoro's good training results in impressive fighting skills.
Which brings me to explain why I find his training bad in the first place - but perhaps I'd need to nuance. It isn't absolutely bad; he developed a whole range of new skills that place him at a high level globally: sky walk (which to be fair he learned pretty fast! I'll get to this surprising fact later on), faster diable jambe and new techniques related to that, as the Mouton Shot; an increased speed due to the running, I guess; and that is because to be fair, the okama are not weak, and the premise of his training is a good one (brings me back to what I said one post ago; if the enemies he had to beat were stronger, say animals that would slaughter the crew as it was before the time skip, we wouldn't even be having this conversation). Only, they do not compare to characters such as Rayleigh and Mihawk in terms of strength. In other terms, Sanji was being trained by largely weaker people.Huh, I don't think Oda decided to write Sanji's struggle against some of his opponents only because the okama training couldn't possibly pay off strenght-wise. It's actually funny to imagine Oda in his chair thinking "oh damn, can't make Sanji win this fight here because he trained with okama Ivankov, not the with the likes of the great Mihawk, shit, gonna give him a power suit to compensate then". Everything in this particular case is deliberate, arbitrary, not a chain of logical consequences.
It is a matter of coherence. As soon as Oda introduced the time skip concept, he made it clear that everyone would evolve in a way that would correspond to the training they went through. To make Sanji really strong with disregard to his actual training is not coherent, therefore: how could it be planned? Thus, the raid suit power-up came into play to give him a boost.
It's hard to measure how strong is Sanji and how strong Oda wants Sanji to be at this point of the series. If we look at Sanji's track record in the New World, all his quick unfinished fights were against really strong opponents that probably are in a higher hierarchy than Sanji in the worldbuilding of the series, not something Sanji should trample over in a second. Considering Oda never intended to write an actual fight out of any of those cases, Sanji didn't have enough time to either win or lose. He was only hyping those guys while they were hyping him back, depending on how the reader undestands each one of these clashes. Meanwhile, Sanji has other quick feats, like moving ultra fast, destroying a Pacifista with one kick and incinerating a gigantic Wadatsumi almost as if he had a fire devil fruit power.
I do not disagree with that.
The question is what Oda intends to do when the time comes for Sanji to have a proper 1v1 in the New World. I have no idea, really, but if we look at the past for reference, Sanji was always strong enough without any explication, just because. He often skipped fights in many arcs just to come back later winning against someone strong, like Mr. 2 (after having no fights in the first four arcs of the Grand Line) and Jyabura (after having no fights in Skypiea).
It wasn't just because, it's because he spent his whole youth fighting under the protection of a strong pirate. But I also think he has a whole lot of potential: how does one learn sky walk in a day?
Besides, almost nobody had proper fights in Grand Line. If we're counting Zoro's Whiskey Peak, shouldn't we count the two drawing animals on Little Garden, and the crocodiles in the casino?
In Skypiea, the big round guy with glasses?
(Today I am struggling with names).
My point being that Sanji has displayed proper feats across the whole first part of the series, so seeing him handle Jyaburas and Bon Clays was not a surprise. -
I would find it more logical to say that Sanji's bad training lead to him not having "many feats" in the New World, just like, in the same way, Zoro's good training results in impressive fighting skills.
Which brings me to explain why I find his training bad in the first place - but perhaps I'd need to nuance. It isn't absolutely bad; he developed a whole range of new skills that place him at a high level globally: sky walk (which to be fair he learned pretty fast! I'll get to this surprising fact later on), faster diable jambe and new techniques related to that, as the Mouton Shot; an increased speed due to the running, I guess; and that is because to be fair, the okama are not weak, and the premise of his training is a good one (brings me back to what I said one post ago; if the enemies he had to beat were stronger, say animals that would slaughter the crew as it was before the time skip, we wouldn't even be having this conversation). Only, they do not compare to characters such as Rayleigh and Mihawk in terms of strength. In other terms, Sanji was being trained by largely weaker people.If you really believe that matters, I guess we just disagree. In order to better explain what I think, Oda isn't the most "logical" and "cohesive" writer in the world… not that he can't be, but rather he doesn't care. His whole writing focuses on keeping things excting/fun instead of going to the most coherent route just for the sake of it. The implications is that Sanji could have spent the time skip training with Gaimon and come back just as strong as Zoro training with Mihawk and we would deal with it. If Sanji had been showing great feats after training with the okamas, would we be complaining that it doesn't make sense? No, because it doesn't really matter.
That is not to say that Sanji's training was in fact "illogical" or "incoherent". Whatever is happening with Sanji is happening because that's where Oda is placing him strenght-wise in the hierarchy of the world, not a direct consequence of his training. And I would argue that Sanji is pretty strong right now. How much is Oven's and Daifuku's bounties? Around 500 hundred million? Until yesterday, this value was a milestone in One Piece. Sanji is competing with those guys.
As a matter of fact, if we think about it, Oda gave to Sanji one of the strongest people we know to be his mentor, Ivankov. Other characters in One Piece that are above Iva-san are either enemies or characters not introduced yet... so any ideas of who else could have been? Regardless, Oda did put Sanji in the same kind of training of Zoro and Luffy, even if Rayleigh and Mihawk are hypothetically stronger teachers.
It is a matter of coherence. As soon as Oda introduced the time skip concept, he made it clear that everyone would evolve in a way that would correspond to the training they went through. To make Sanji really strong with disregard to his actual training is not coherent, therefore: how could it be planned? Thus, the raid suit power-up came into play to give him a boost.
Beyond what I've already said, the coherence is there because Sanji's training was defeating 99 strong okamas… a pretty streight-forward fighting training. That's way more fitting than facing wild beasts as Luffy did (considering we've always seen big beasts being fodderized by the Strawhats and other people). For a mentor, he had one of the leader of the Revolutionary Army (someone in the same tier as Kuma, maybe even above).
It wasn't just because, it's because he spent his whole youth fighting under the protection of a strong pirate. But I also think he has a whole lot of potential: how does one learn sky walk in a day?
That's the set up for Sanji's strenght, but the Strawhats were constantly evolving throughtout their journay with each new fight. We just have to look at Zoro always learning something new (cut steel, throw slashes, etc) or Usopp collecting gadgets. On the other hand, Oda's writing of Sanji's development skipped a lot of the steps. He just belonged to the Monster Trio because that was his second role in the crew.
Besides, almost nobody had proper fights in Grand Line. If we're counting Zoro's Whiskey Peak, shouldn't we count the two drawing animals on Little Garden, and the crocodiles in the casino?
In Skypiea, the big round guy with glasses?
(Today I am struggling with names).
My point being that Sanji has displayed proper feats across the whole first part of the series, so seeing him handle Jyaburas and Bon Clays was not a surprise.If we're counting everything as feats (like kicking crocodiles), Sanji also had a lot of feats in the New World. Maybe they were just way too obvious in our exceptations to be as pleasing as before when we were still discovering his character.
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@Kaido:
Only if you think helping Luffy win against Cracker was useless. Or otherwise completely neutralizing a forest where every object was an enemy and rendering only two people threats. Or helping us learn about Lola's role in everything. Or winning Pound's allegiance, which resulted in Sanji's cake making it off Cacao Island and preventing Big Mom from killing the Straw Hats.
yeh making the cake was useless. The relation with Pound is useless too as far as we know. At best, it helped Luffy against Cracker, okay. But this wasn't the main goal of the vivre card at first.
The point was so that Luffy would get help from her mom. Not that he'd use it to stall Cracker for 10hours -
yeh making the cake was useless. The relation with Pound is useless too as far as we know. At best, it helped Luffy against Cracker, okay. But this wasn't the main goal of the vivre card at first.
The point was so that Luffy would get help from her mom. Not that he'd use it to stall Cracker for 10hoursHad the cake not gotten off the island, Big Mom would have torched the Sunny.
Just because the card didn't fulfill its original purpose doesn't mean it wasn't useful. The Straw Hats would not have survived without it. If the Raid Suit ends up being used by another Straw Hat, would that render it useless?
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@Kaido:
Had the cake not gotten off the island, Big Mom would have torched the Sunny.
Sunny would not be in that scenario if they would not stay behind to make this cake for 30 chapters. This cake did more harm then good, since they could have left since the cake castle was down, it got more allies in trouble instead like jimbe and fishmen pirates, germa.
It was more the plot tool used to keep the straw hats busy while captain trains beating katakuri. -
This post is deleted!
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@uniaka:
Sunny would not be in that scenario if they would not stay behind to make this cake for 30 chapters. This cake did more harm then good, since they could have left since the cake castle was down, it got more allies in trouble instead like jimbe and fishmen pirates, germa.
It was more the plot tool used to keep the straw hats busy while captain trains beating katakuri.Yeah it would have because Big Mom would still be chasing them for the cake. There would have been nothing stopping her from doing what she did at the end of Chapter 891.
There is that other question, that I don't see people asking around - would Big Mom have starved to death and ultimately killed if she had no cake to eat? The strength she used to chase the cake was at expense of her own body. She was withering away before everyone's eyes.
That would have been a crappy way for yonkou to get taken out, so I guess that's why people chooses to not ask this question. But for the band itself it's underwhelming decision to run away with full strength instead of taking this great opportunity to defeat a yonkou.
Maybe, but even with all the advantages the Sunny team had (having a soul cutter, a storm summoner, and a Fishman in the middle of the ocean; basically, a team able to exploit nearly all of Big Mom's weaknesses), they still weren't able to do too much against her. Add in the rest of her crew getting in on the action and it's still very much a losing effort.
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There is that other question, that I don't see people asking around - would Big Mom have starved to death and ultimately killed if she had no cake to eat? The strength she used to chase the cake was at expense of her own body. She was withering away before everyone's eyes.
That would have been a crappy way for yonkou to get taken out, so I guess that's why people chooses to not ask this question. But for the band regardkess it was a missed opportunity to defeat a yonkou.
Nobody had the information that Big Mom would starve so much in her berserk mode to the point of death in a few hours (supposing she would die), much less the Strawhats. Even then, the cake was needed to take her away from their tail because even though she could die in hunger later, she could still kill everybody first.
But yes, if Capone had blown the cake afterwards, maybe Big Mom would have died… that just remembers me that we actually die when if we don't eat. Lesson learned, kids. Not that we should worry though, because our unsolicited hero Sanji won't let us starve.
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Nobody had the information that Big Mom would starve so much in her berserk mode to the point of death in a few hours (supposing she would die), much less the Strawhats. Even then, the cake was needed to take her away from their tail because even though she could die in hunger later, she could still kill everybody first.
Yes, I was wrong there. I misremembered that someone on crew at some point noticed her sliming down.
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@Kaido:
Yeah it would have because Big Mom would still be chasing them for the cake. There would have been nothing stopping her from doing what she did at the end of Chapter 891.
Dude, Bigmom would be dead if there was no cake.
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Even if you don't care about the cake, the Vivre Card got them Chiffon's loyalty, bringing them to Bege, and thus, a way into the wedding.
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Dude, Bigmom would be dead if there was no cake.
Not before she killed the Straw Hats first.
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I'm under the impression that the straw hat pirates will have to undergo some training at the end of the series to face off against the black beard pirates, kind of similar to how they did at the end of the time skip
The devil fruit users will have to awaken there devil fruits, Usopp will learn haki, Franky will make the thousand sunny into a mech suit, Nami will get upgraded gear, Zoro will learn to connect with the souls of his sword (lol maybe not.) no idea about Jinbei
AND SANJI, will have to throw away his pride, his hated for his father, and use a raid suit that he detests, for Luffy's sake, that's what I think anyways
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It would be cool, however unlikely, for Sanji's Raid Suit to give him a royal-like, "Mr. Prince" sort of theme, with a crown and the like. Just to be a fun callback to his fake moniker. Maybe with some red boots, in honor of his mentor Red Shoes Zeff.
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And to make clear what I mean… We still have the whole comic book with a character named Sora who opposed the Vinsmokes... And for reasons we have learned that not only the Vinsmokes agreed for this propaganda story but also the Sanji's was called Sora... Sadly this never was somehow adressed in the WCI.
Well but back to the thread... Sanji got a raid suit and people, me included, do not like that he will use a something made by his father he hates... But what if the raid suit he will be using is the one Sora aka his mother had and will looks similar to the suit of Sora the marine hero in the comics. And Mama Sora somehow opposed Judge as well
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I always found it strange that Hero Sora had a suit similar to the raid suits as well… Not only it would connect the comic book to Sanji's mom but also would give more meaning for Sanji to use.
Further more I think the suit in the pic looks great and more clean.
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What if usopp and franky do work on the suit, but not for them, sanji will still use it himself. They will just make it more custom for sanji, like more similar to his mom's suit?
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It's hard to measure how strong is Sanji and how strong Oda wants Sanji to be at this point of the series. If we look at Sanji's track record in the New World, all his quick unfinished fights were against really strong opponents that probably are in a higher hierarchy than Sanji in the worldbuilding of the series, not something Sanji should trample over in a second.
no , it's actually very easy to measure it . Sanji was losing fights against Vergo (even though his legs were supposed to be his strongest points) while Vergo wasn't even using all his CoA coating like he did against Law . By the way , spoiler alert , Law one-shotted that Vergo . Zoro was also handling the fight against executives (which is the rank of Vergo) relatively fine .
This is how you measure Sanji :
Zoro >>>>> pretimeskip Zoro >> post timeskip Sanji
so Sanji is about Zoro's level when zoro was in water seven (but asura zoro would still kill Sanji) -
Pica was a shit swordsman who mainly used his Devil Fruit and really only had a sword to…match up better with Zoro, I guess? And he was living comfortably on Dressrosa. Meanwhile, Vergo was a physical fighter with strong Haki who had been on active duty as a Marine. Not all matchups are created equal, and you have more factors in it than just raw strength, such as weapons and Devil Fruit abilities. Characters like Vergo and Pica had skills and abilities that were difficult for physical fighters to match up against, but gave advantages to swordsmen.
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no , it's actually very easy to measure it . Sanji was losing fights against Vergo (even though his legs were supposed to be his strongest points) while Vergo wasn't even using all his CoA coating like he did against Law . By the way , spoiler alert , Law one-shotted that Vergo . Zoro was also handling the fight against executives (which is the rank of Vergo) relatively fine .
This is how you measure Sanji :
Zoro >>>>> pretimeskip Zoro >> post timeskip Sanji
so Sanji is about Zoro's level when zoro was in water seven (but asura zoro would still kill Sanji)Except both Zoro and Sanji critically injured a pacifista, something neither were able to do pre-timeskip. Power levels is generally a discussion I dont want to have but your reasoning is just wrong.
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Except both Zoro and Sanji critically injured a pacifista, something neither were able to do pre-timeskip. Power levels is generally a discussion I dont want to have but your reasoning is just wrong.
the only doing critical injury is Zoro . Sanji is just trying to take the winning glory (I bet his legs got broken when he kicked pacifista lol)
Zoro actually had been able to give wounds to pacifista since pre-timeskip . It's just that Zoro was still not on full health when he met pacifista . Zoro was slicing even the real Kuma while Sanji shitted his pants when his kicks failed to kuma.
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It will be used in the battle against big mom or kaido
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I just wonder if it's black or yellow. Yellow for sanji to get full DUCK look( super duck?)or black like his nrnal outfits so far or nickname.
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Who gets the mera mera, a straw hat? a princess out for revenge? a blackbeard pirate? no it's the made up flashback kid who gets to survive the flashback and take Ace's place so Ace's fanboys don't stop buying the manga
I'm still mad
What? Up until the flashback started, I fully admit that that was not Oda's best or deepest bit of foreshadowing, but once it started it was really obvious that Sabo was going to "die" but actually survive and then appear later in the story. The flashback as a whole also gave a lot more context for Luffy as a whole, especially his hatred of nobility and quest for true freedom.
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It will be used in the battle against big mom or kaido
kaido would only need to sneeze to kill sanji
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After seeing the preview of next episode… Use that damn suit and fuck your pride!
Still curious what his special DNA ability would have been bar the exoskeleton... And what the suit would give him besides better stats and being bulletproof
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After seeing the preview of next episode… Use that damn suit and fuck your pride!
Still curious what his special DNA ability would have been bar the exoskeleton... And what the suit would give him besides better stats and being bulletproof
Fire, just like now? And if niji can fly much faster because of the suit or his own ability.
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@uniaka:
Fire, just like now? And if niji can fly much faster because of the suit of his own ability.
What do you mean with your 2nd sentence.
And about fire… Yeah so even if he unlocks for some reasons his DNA powers (which I doubt) he would gain nothing bar the exoskeleton cuz he already can use fire
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I'm going with Franky using it. Or Usopp. Anybody but Sanji please.
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What do you mean with your 2nd sentence.
And about fire… Yeah so even if he unlocks for some reasons his DNA powers (which I doubt) he would gain nothing bar the exoskeleton cuz he already can use fire
It would be ironic and fitting if fire is the thing sanji would get if his dna powers worked, as in the same thing he got anyway by training. But the suit can still give him even more fire, like what sabo does.
And about niji, we don't know if he can fly that fast because of the suit or his own power.
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@uniaka:
It would be ironic and fitting if fire is the thing sanji would get if his dna powers worked, as in the same thing he got anyway by training. But the suit can still give him even more fire, like what sabo does.
And about niji, we don't know if he can fly that fast because of the suit or his own power.
Well OK… Thanks
Maybe in Niji's case it is a mix of both.