@HeartOfDarkness:
Feel free to point out why a storytelling device like that in a interactive medium is lazy.
Because if you're going to write for any medium specifically video games and have an event that's integral to the game's story or it's main cast it'd be nice to actually see how that event happened instead it being relegated to supplementary material most fans aren't going to read or optional collectibles you can easily miss in game (or never explained at all). I can accept the idea that not everything needs to be explained to the viewer but some things should fall specifically under "show don't tell".
@HeartOfDarkness:
Especially considering the Video-game medium is at its best when there isn't much said and in-fact shown/conveyed through different methods.
That was fine in the 80's and up to the mid 90's when stuff was limited and when almost every game was a platformer which of course don't really need deep plots. Nowadays it's just outdated to me.
@HeartOfDarkness:
P.S.: MGS lore is far far far more interesting than anything in TW3 or TW games for that matter. As someone who would rather not remember the generic lore of a generic #1000 fantasy novel/game, MGS lore is enlightening. It has substance. Not text pluff.
It also has fluff, weird shit, & just gets a bit heavy handed in it's themes. Ultimately though what's better and what's weaker is wholly subjective.
@HeartOfDarkness:
I just gotta ask this; are you saying that the interactivity part in an interactive medium doesn't mean anything?
Considering I never said or even alluded to such a thing? No.
@HeartOfDarkness:
Meanwhile both Zelda and MGS series continued playing around with their respective genres. With their latest entries being not only a complete departure but also being an evolution of what they did over the years.
PP felt more like it was an continuation of Portable Ops and Peace Walker which themselves felt like lesser versions of the main MGS games. BOTW was just let's take a Zelda game blow up the open world, have you scavenge for weapons (which you can't repair) and Armor (which takes no damage), and make the dungeons which are typically an integral part of the games boring and uninteresting.
@HeartOfDarkness:
Hell, while BoTW was extremely well-received, TPP wasn't simply because it fundamentally changed the game. Hitman hasn't evolved. People KNOW EXACTLY what they are getting when they buy Hitman. It's like Need for Speed…except in stealth genre.
…..You're comparing a game with shooter and stealth elements that comes out every few years to a racing game series that comes out every year and in spite of a few changes every once and in a while are fundamentally but not exactly the same?
I think this is really the part where you should've thrown in the sarcastic (and unnecessary) laughing cause boy does this sound really dumb. I'd see if you compared it to something like Splinter Cell (eventhough it hasn't had a new entry in almost 8 years) but the above comparison made no sense.
@HeartOfDarkness:
Hitman is designed to be a stealth game. Period. Everything and anything you do is "stealth"-based. The moment you get into combat, it's done. Because the game isn't designed to be "played" in however way you want.
If this were truly the case you'd instantly fail a level whenever you decide to go loud or whenever your cover is blown…...neither of the new games (nor some of the earlier games) punishes you for this outside of keeping you from getting a silent assassin rating. And let's you play largely however you want it's just that the other way makes it harder but not impossible to finish a level.
@HeartOfDarkness:
Want to try going in quietly? Sure you can. Want to have a backup just incase going quietly doesn't work? You betcha. Oh, look your stealth plan just failed and the enemy base is alerted, are the mechanics competently designed to be as flexible as possible? Absolutely. Hitman isn't a competently designed game and simply getting into combat situations can show you the biggest weakness of the games.
I've not played every Metal Gear game but even in Phantom Pain alerting the enemy and getting into firefights with them isn't really something that's encouraged and as evidenced by a later mission actually illustrates how bad an idea this is i.e. Mission 45.
@HeartOfDarkness:
TPP, however, doesn't operate on that ground. The game can be played as a stealth game or as a action third person shooter, the game is extremely flexible to the player's choices.
Well sure up until you meet the child soldiers in Bwala ya Masa who of course you can't kill. So much for being extremely flexible and letting you go rambo huh?
@HeartOfDarkness:
I can literally give TPP to any random fifth grader and they can play and develop their own style of playing.
And yet, the same couldn't be said for Hitman whether new or old.
Yeah this argument makes zero sense. Especially in this day and age where the internet is ubiquitous and any of these supposed fifth graders can look for and get ideas and strategies for any game they can play…...just like Fornite?
@HeartOfDarkness:
You cannot be this ignorant to claim that TPP or BoTW didn't do anything new?
Of course not I'm not someone trying to make TPP and BoTW sound much more special than they really were when both games were pretty average from a gameplay prospective all the while having some weird bias bordering on hate towards the Witcher 3 and Hitman.
@HeartOfDarkness:
Really? Ok then provide examples from any modern stealth and adventure game to showcase that. I personally haven't seen any old or new games that come even close aside from Death Stranding, which again adapts TPP philosophy and takes it in a completely different direction.
…..Which makes sense considering both games ARE DIRECTED BY THE SAME GUY?
Incidentally the same guy whose gotten a reputation for having more of interest in directing overwritten stories that would work better as a novel (though he'd probably would need an editor badly) than a video game?
@HeartOfDarkness:
TPP, a stealth open-world title that was precisely developed to be playable in anyway
Until it wasn't as noted.
@HeartOfDarkness:
the player can imagine with open-world design handcrafted to make sure that the level-design was supporting the core systems to make one of the few games in the industry that can talk about player-choice and ACTUALLY deliver it with systems that are still ahead of the industry despite coming out nearly 5 years ago.
And yet no one is copying it or picking Kojima's brain to learn how to do it? Like they did with the original Metal Gear/Metal Gear Solid?
@HeartOfDarkness:
You are seriously claiming that the game didn't accomplish anything?
I vaguely remember saying it's open world was unimpressive due to how empty it along with comparing it's open ended gameplay style (which isn't all that open ended) to Hitman's. Meaning no but I'm almost tempted to say that just to see how you continue overreacting and fanboying hard over it.
@HeartOfDarkness:
BoTW, an adventure open-world title that applies TPP-like concepts in a adventure game where the adventure is player's choice. The story is light because the game would rather focus on player journey then to make the actual narrative the forefront of the game.
Is it that or simply because someone on the writing team just didn't know how to make the story worth caring about in a series where traditionally the story mattered?
@HeartOfDarkness:
Like how you can bypass the entire game, through no tricks or glitches, and fight the final boss if you want. That is player choice.
Which was a rather stupid addition admittedly. And not really something you're meant to do in the early game for good reason.
@HeartOfDarkness:
You should first play the other games and then play these games and see just how far behind the competition really is.
I've actually already played MGS, MGS2 SOL, MGS3 SE, MGS4 GOTP, MGSPW in addition to ALttP, OoT, TP, WW, BOTW, MM.
If the competition is behind these games like "YOU" think they are I couldn't care less. Ultimately it doesn't really change my original opinions on PP or BOTW.
@HeartOfDarkness:
Though I'm guessing none of that matters to you since an open-world filled with crap on screen is good for you…
Eventhough I already mentioned I don't really play open world games to go and do everything possible since some of it ultimately becomes repetitious.
Can you at least make some effort to read what people write (along with what you write) instead of glossing over or outright ignoring it just so you can go on random tangents with some degree of pretentiousness. Along with accepting that your opinion is just that and not irrefutable fact?
I actually remember we had pointless discussion over certain elements over PP in the Metal Gear thread and I forgot you really went out of your way to make discussing things with way harder and unfulfilling than it needed to be. I'm not at all surprised to learn that in that 4 year span you haven't made discussing certain topics with you any less challenging.