Chapter 884: Who

[Hajro]

@Dark-Abel:

This explanation from Katakuri also explains how Aokiji and Akainu where able to dodge haki attacks in their logia form during the War at Marineford.
So they probably have haxed observation Haki aswell.

I think the only way to beat it (in the fair way) is to improve your own observation haki so that it cancell each other out.

Luffy desperately needs a way to fight without being a ticking time bomb, what stops katakuri from going on the defensive and just waiting it out if he finds out how g4 works.

[ralf21]

@andre:

Having your protagonist win and save the day is in no ways bending the rules of the genre. Having a shonen protagonist go over a stronger opponent is in no ways pandering to the fans. It's 101. And when else would a "perfect character" show is insecurities? The entire time? I'm sure if he was broadcasting them for the whole fight, you'd find an issue with that as well. But yeah, I found last chapter to be rather creative and think Oda's going to come up with something to wrap the bow on this fight. That your mind says you don't want creativity says enough about your ability to even mimic objectivity when talking about this.

I'll suppose you meant abiding by the rules.
"It's 101", shame on me for expecting something more interesting. You criticize my lack of creativity then go on to praise the bland old mixture you've been spoonfed for decades …
My problem with Katakuri's "weakness" is what it bodes for the future, how will Luffy defeat Kaido ? He'll find out mid-fight that if you tickle his right elbow he drops his CoA ?
And then sure, MY mind doesn't want creativity, I lack objectivity, when all i'm asking for is to be pleasently surprised. I could give answer, but then it would turn too personnal. Have a nice day.

[andy]

@ralf21:

I'll suppose you meant abiding by the rules.
"It's 101", shame on me for expecting something more interesting. You criticize my lack of creativity then go on to praise the bland old mixture you've been spoonfed for decades …
My problem with Katakuri's "weakness" is what it bodes for the future, how will Luffy defeat Kaido ? He'll find out mid-fight that if you tickle his right elbow he drops his CoA ?
And then sure, MY mind doesn't want creativity, I lack objectivity, when all i'm asking for is to be pleasently surprised. I could give answer, but then it would turn too personnal. Have a nice day.

Your point about Kaido make no sense lol.
I mean it is only 2 ways the fight goes find there weakness or just over power them .
Mix and match when need with different characters and numbers etc etc

[.access timeco.]

@Kaido:

Hmmm, Katakuri's DF still raises a bit of questions about how much O-Haki can aid Devil Fruit abilities. Could Luffy achieve the ability to replace parts of his body with actual rubber? Looking forward to exploring the possibilities raised.

Rubber trumps over mochi because of its elasticity, but it loses when it come to malleability. I doubt Luffy could ever freely control his rubber body like Katakuri can with his mochi, like creating extra arms of things like that.

[Watch-man]

@Hajro:

Luffy desperately needs a way to fight without being a ticking time bomb, what stops katakuri from going on the defensive and just waiting it out if he finds out how g4 works.

I think that we have seen 2/3 of this fight and Luffy will win it in time because he will use Mirrors to contact people all around Big Mom territory and badmouth Katakuri. Katakuri will loose his cool and Luffy will have a chance to land some really heavy attacks. I would love if he could return the favor to Katakuri and grab him using Snake Shot(in Gear Fourth it would be proably named King Kobra) to get a hold on Katakuri and beat him up.

[zuppamann]

@Maju:

glad oda resolved the mystery of katakuri's devil fruit in a satisfactory way… it being a logia didn't make sense,but a paramecia that acts like a logia doesn't either.
but a guy that can just "dodge creatively" does..especially since we saw the same kind of dodging made by aokiji during the war if i remember correctly.

Magellan did something similar, or am I wrong?

[.access timeco.]

I have to say, I'm a bit disappointed that we got this big reveal about Katakuri dodging Luffy attacks by simply doing what Akainu already did many arcs ago. I wonder if Oda forgot he had used that already since he is making such a big deal out of it (I can understand it being new to Luffy, but it seems like Oda is expecting it to be new to the reader too).

[Dark-Abel]

@.access:

I have to say, I'm a bit disappointed that we got this big reveal about Katakuri dodging Luffy attacks by simply doing what Akainu already did many arcs ago. I wonder if Oda forgot he had used that already since he is making such a big deal out of it (I can understand it being new to Luffy, but it seems like Oda is expecting it to be new to the reader too).

Well it was never explicit stated how Akainu did it.

[andy]

@.access:

I have to say, I'm a bit disappointed that we got this big reveal about Katakuri dodging Luffy attacks by simply doing what Akainu already did many arcs ago. I wonder if Oda forgot he had used that already since he is making such a big deal out of it (I can understand it being new to Luffy, but it seems like Oda is expecting it to be new to the reader too).

Thinking he just like going more in depth into it and it's been long.
Plus for a while now CoO in fights never took the main stage.
It nice to see someone basing there fighting and DF style around that to a certain level.

[STP_PS]

@Watch-man:

I think that we have seen 2/3 of this fight and Luffy will win it in time because he will use Mirrors to contact people all around Big Mom territory and badmouth Katakuri. Katakuri will loose his cool and Luffy will have a chance to land some really heavy attacks. I would love if he could return the favor to Katakuri and grab him using Snake Shot(in Gear Fourth it would be proably named King Kobra) to get a hold on Katakuri and beat him up.

I agree with almost everything you've said, but Luffy has a move called python already right? (Though I think he has his hand clenched as in a punch) will he go over different snake families? If so, I'd love to see a coral or an anaconda reference

[Maju]

@zuppamann:

Magellan did something similar, or am I wrong?

don't think so…magellan has been shown only to be able to coa himself with venom,not become it
kartakuri is "special" because he can actually turn his body into the stuff,becoming a mixture between a mr 3 kind of paramecia and one like luffy that has his entire body become a certain material.
but he shouldn't have the normal defensive abilities of logia either, but he compensate by dodging "creatively"

[STP_PS]

@.access:

I have to say, I'm a bit disappointed that we got this big reveal about Katakuri dodging Luffy attacks by simply doing what Akainu already did many arcs ago. I wonder if Oda forgot he had used that already since he is making such a big deal out of it (I can understand it being new to Luffy, but it seems like Oda is expecting it to be new to the reader too).

The difference is that. Akainu is a Logia while Katakuri is a paramecia. For logias, changing the shape of their body comes naturally. I believe that paramecias would not only need to be awakened but would also need an insane COO to achieve such feat. I think the stress is over (hey this is what an awakened paramecia can do)

Edit: Plus oh if you think COO is the least powerful of the haki attributes… think again

[Blissed]

Prauline is a goddess. Loved Katakuri's Awakening attack as well, really bodes well as to what we can expect from future Awakening users, because Doflamingo was (understandably) not that impressive of a formal introduction.

Gonna be Luffy's hardest fight yet for sure, but he's got this one way or another.

As for Oven/Daifuku, I don't really care who Sanji fights. But now that a BM Pirate is in Sanji's vicinity, I'm now suddenly overcome with the urge to see him get that fight, despite previously being under the mindset that Sanji doesn't necessarily need one this arc.

[sugarboy]

So Luffy will be able to read the future too… takes me back to EL days when he first used gear 2nd.

EDIT: why do I feel I also learned how to read it... I will show myself out

[RomanceDawn]

Oops. This seems to be the right place today.

Ok so finally finally finally we get a decent explanation for what Akainu did(or may have done) when avoiding a hit from Vista and Marco at Marineford!

This was a fun chapter! The fight has been so cool, seeing the kitchen and those giant cakes is so cool, and watching Praline siren her way to victory with symbols and horns being played under water is just so cool!

[Pennywise]

Still an awesome fight between Luffy and Katakuri, although Luffy wasn't really able to capitalize as much on Katakuri loosing his focus as I thought. I can really see this fight being his "New World Lucci 'bout", where he will be pushed to the absolute brink of defeat before breaking his limits and coming out on top. With Katakuri's Strong Mocchi punch we also saw that he seems to be slightly above what Luffy has shown since the timeskip in terms of raw physical destructive power (I'm aware the term "physical" might be debatable, seeing how his DF is involved, but still…). As mentioned in the chapter basically we're back to square one now with this fight and Luffy's only options are to either get Katakuri to loose his focus again or evolve throughout the fight and actually get better/faster/stronger than him. Also, maybe he still hasn't shown everything, but I'm pretty sure this is gonna be settled with G4 only. Either way, the tension in this fight is definitely still there I think. :)

P.S. As mentioned before by some users, knocking his head into the ground to both regain his composure and prevent his back from touching said ground was such a badass move by Katakuri and really menacing as well.

[Luffyfan]

This chapter was a million times better than the spoilers sounded, Luffy's is dang awesome and it's to see Luffy's Gear 4 can do.

Honestly, didn't care for Sanji's part, wish we'd just get another focus chapter on Luffy's.
I agree, thus really does feel like Luffy V.S Lucci of the New World. I'm wondering how Luffy will win.

Could Sanji get a fight next? Who knows, Oda's unpredictable with his character this arc and not in a good way :/

Over all enoyable. Are we getting a break again? UGH!

[andre]

@ralf21:

I'll suppose you meant abiding by the rules.
"It's 101", shame on me for expecting something more interesting. You criticize my lack of creativity then go on to praise the bland old mixture you've been spoonfed for decades …
My problem with Katakuri's "weakness" is what it bodes for the future, how will Luffy defeat Kaido ? He'll find out mid-fight that if you tickle his right elbow he drops his CoA ?
And then sure, MY mind doesn't want creativity, I lack objectivity, when all i'm asking for is to be pleasently surprised. I could give answer, but then it would turn too personnal. Have a nice day.

Get personal, I'm not sensitive.
It wouldn't be new for creative or interesting for Luffy to lose to an opponent though, which you seem to want, eh? We've seen that with Crocodile, Lucci, Ceasar, Magellan, the entirety of Marineford. It's not new, but I don't think it happening the way you seem to intend and right now would bode well at all for a fight with Kaido. If Luffy is to power up and be forced to get stronger, it should be for a Yonkou, not a lieutenant. If he doesn't have a way to get around a guy on Katakuri's level, the timeskip was a waste.

Plus, we're at the right place with this. Luffy knows his weakness; actually vulnerability is a better term. That he needs extreme amounts of composure to use his color of observation the way he needs to. And it's not as if we all haven't been wondering what's made Katakuri so special, or how he seems to appear like a Logia. We were given an answer to that question and understand that his main strength is also one of his biggest vulnerabilities. Would you rather Luffy just come back, stronger, awoken, and better with Haki? I suppose that's an answer, but to me it's not the right one.

[Thatanas]

@Luffyfan:

Are we getting a break again? UGH!

The opening post literally says no break, learn to read.

[Halfmetal-lich]

A meh chapter. Really kinda feels like filler to get us to the next big event in this arc.

Really there is nothing else left to say.

Yet, I look forward to this thread taking one part of the chapter and breaking it down to the bloody bone marrow for the next 6 days.

[garonne]

Turning the area into arms… now I'm seeing how luffy will use his awakening. Bounce house was just too lame, but this? Changes the whole thing!!

[Sads]

Praline :wub:

I absolutely loved the confidence Sanji showed when proclaiming Katakuri's first lose to Luffy. Especially in light of everything he said about not believing in Luffy in front of the Vinsmokes. And yeah! Pound getting pounded by Oven outside while Pound's daughter baking pound cake in an oven.

[Logia]

How many times has Luffy gone down this arc? Reading the chapters it doesn't really feel bothersome, but it feels like the spoilers have mentioned that often.

Also, how come no character suggested Aladine or Praline being the culprit? One being a guard under water(?), while the other is a sibling (to Mont' at least)?

Edit: Interesting how Praline kept her singing ability secret if that's the case. Pudding's personality disorder (third eye to some?), Katakuri's mouth. I wonder what secrets other Charlotte members are hiding from others close to them.

[Ekila]

This was a great chapter quite indeed! I enjoyed Luffy pummeling Katakuri very much! ^^

Plus, the closure to this chapter was great, as it was a perfect way to end it! :)

Anyways, I can't wait to see the next chapter! :3

[registrare]

@ralf21:

Am i the only one hoping that for once the crew's blind fate in Luffy will get dashed ? Now that i've read this chapter, i'm confident that no matter how Oda spins it, i won't enjoy a Luffy win against Katakuri. The story calls for his defeat at this point, otherwise just hand him the crown already if his every opponent will end up defeated by an asspull.
Bah, i was hoping for better in spite of all the indications to the contrary.

You're in a specialised forum, are you seriously even so dumb that you still have to ask whether you're the "only one"?

[Xelloss]

@Halfmetal-lich:

A meh chapter. Really kinda feels like filler to get us to the next big event in this arc.

Funny, I actually liked it. It took me back to the time of Alabasta and the fight against Crocodile, if you know what I mean.
It's been how long since then, 15 years?

I'm not bothered that Katakuri has a weakness, as long as it is not used in a lame way. In fact, it's not even a weakness, but more of an explanation of how Katakuri's powers work.
Luffy has NOT surpassed Katakuri's CoO, and is "back to square one", as it was appropriately said.

Unless next week we see Luffy asking the mirrors to mock Katakuri (please Oda, don't!), I can't complain.

[uniaka ikuzakas]

so is Square mochi hands combining the properties of mochi and coa, like luffy combined elasticity of rubber and harness of coa in gear 4, or it-s another level of coa.

[Halfmetal-lich]

@Xelloss:

Funny, I actually liked it. It took me back to the time of Alabasta and the fight against Crocodile, if you know what I mean.
It's been how long since then, 15 years?

I'm not bothered that Katakuri has a weakness, as long as it is not used in a lame way. In fact, it's not even a weakness, but more of an explanation of how Katakuri's powers work.
Luffy has NOT surpassed Katakuri's CoO, and is "back to square one", as it was appropriately said.

Unless next week we see Luffy asking the mirrors to mock Katakuri (please Oda, don't!), I can't complain.

It all goes back to how you read this manga.

There are two ways to read it: Week to Week and Binge reading.

Chapters like these are fucking horrible to read week to week, but are great when read in a binge format.

[ralf21]

@andre:

Get personal, I'm not sensitive.
It wouldn't be new for creative or interesting for Luffy to lose to an opponent though, which you seem to want, eh? We've seen that with Crocodile, Lucci, Ceasar, Magellan, the entirety of Marineford. It's not new, but I don't think it happening the way you seem to intend and right now would bode well at all for a fight with Kaido. If Luffy is to power up and be forced to get stronger, it should be for a Yonkou, not a lieutenant. If he doesn't have a way to get around a guy on Katakuri's level, the timeskip was a waste.

Plus, we're at the right place with this. Luffy knows his weakness; actually vulnerability is a better term. That he needs extreme amounts of composure to use his color of observation the way he needs to. And it's not as if we all haven't been wondering what's made Katakuri so special, or how he seems to appear like a Logia. We were given an answer to that question and understand that his main strength is also one of his biggest vulnerabilities. Would you rather Luffy just come back, stronger, awoken, and better with Haki? I suppose that's an answer, but to me it's not the right one.

Creativity here isn't in the fact but in how it's presented, i wouldn't have minded him winning if it involved something other than exploiting a vulnerability tailored to fit, sure it's amusing, we all laughed at seeing Katakuri's true self, but i don't want Luffy's first solo victory against a top tier fighter to be because of a gag. As you said i'm not nearly as creative as Oda, so i couldn't offer you an alternative in this situation, but then again, he's the one who put himself there, so i'd expect him to solve the matter in a satisfactory manner.

There was no mention of "extreme amounts" of composure, you need to be calm to use CoO that's all, it's nothing exclusive to Katakuri. As for his power i think it was made public a while ago that it was only changed from Logia because he isn't made of a natural element, so we didn't really learn much, we saw him move like a logia, create and shape matter like a logia, and go beyond that to control it at will. If anything his power is more OP than a logia.

The thing is, Oda seems to want us to believe that Katakuri's only been doing so well thanks to his CoO when he's previously spent chapters showing us that he in fact outclasses Luffy in speed, power and technique. Now most people seem to think gear 4th makes Luffy a God (he clearly seems to think it himself), and that i don't buy, not after the struggle against Doflamingo or the lackluster performance against Cracker. Luffy shouldn't be able to win, and if the best Oda can think of is this, well I'll have to accept it and move on, but don't tell me it's creative or an interesting turn of events.

[RomanceDawn]

@King:

Is the King in the cover story the same King that showed up after Sugar's power was cancelled by Usopp?

Not sure if anyone answered but no. I just checked. The hair, the beard, the crown its all different. Would have been an awesome catch though.

[Sereques]

@Hajro:

Luffy desperately needs a way to fight without being a ticking time bomb, what stops katakuri from going on the defensive and just waiting it out if he finds out how g4 works.

The fight will last another 9 hours, Luffy won’t be in G4 for obvious reasons.

[DarkHamster]

meh. this chapter literally nothing changed….we just got small bits of info. omg why oda stop dragging out luffy fights.

[andy]

@ralf21:

The thing is, Oda seems to want us to believe that Katakuri's only been doing so well thanks to his CoO when he's previously spent chapters showing us that he in fact outclasses Luffy in speed, power and technique. Now most people seem to think gear 4th makes Luffy a God (he clearly seems to think it himself), and that i don't buy, not after the struggle against Doflamingo or the lackluster performance against Cracker. Luffy shouldn't be able to win, and if the best Oda can think of is this, well I'll have to accept it and move on, but don't tell me it's creative or an interesting turn of events.

This is not fully true he did out class luffy yes but it was thanks to his CoO along with everything else.
His CoO is a big part of his fighting style plus it was Gear 2 and 3 luffy so the fight was in the early stages .
Also luffy did not struggle against Don he was kicking his ass until he run out of time .

[NateRich]

@andy:

Also this chapter shows again what level BM is compare to every one else .
Katakuri even with his better haki was sent flying with that attack and BM saw it as nothing .

I hate the shonen trope where the big bad is leagues ahead of the subordinates. Recently saw it with Doflamingo and now Big Mom. To a lesser extent Jack as well, nobody he brought with him was worth any time(Or Oda didn't want to introduce too many characters) I know it's just to make the villian more threatening by comparison but it really gets old

I wonder where the cover story is going? Ideo unites the 2 races and as thanks from the kings the fleet gets enough members to hit 56,000?

[andy]

@NateRich:

I hate the shonen trope where the big bad is leagues ahead of the subordinates. Recently saw it with Doflamingo and now Big Mom. To a lesser extent Jack as well, nobody he brought with him was worth any time(Or Oda didn't want to introduce too many characters) I know it's just to make the villian more threatening by comparison but it really gets old

That has been normal for OP since the beginning truth be told .
Kuro was ahead of his whole crew , same for Arlong , Croc , Enel etc etc etc .
Even on the marine side the admirals way above most people but a few .
The same for the good guys \ friend side also with Boa , WB , Law etc etc

[Zar]

Praline

Another great chapter. So glad to see that Luffy isn't overpowering Katakuri. Seems this will be an even fight.

[Kaido King of the Beasts]

@DarkHamster:

meh. this chapter literally nothing changed….we just got small bits of info. omg why oda stop dragging out luffy fights.

The entire tide of the battle changed. That's certainly something. Plus the whole thing with Oven is definitely going to be a big setup for whatever happens next on Cacao Island.

Katakuri is not really an opponent you can have a fast battle against. He's going to give Luffy all he can handle. The Cracker fight ended up being way too fast so I'm glad Oda's devoting the time to displaying Katakuri's weakness and how both he and Luffy handle it.

[RomanceDawn]

Things I really loved about this chapter:

1. CoO being utilized in such an advanced way by such a top tier character. CoA always appeared to have more purpose and utility but its great to know that fighters who specialize in this type can be number one among their piers or in their organization.

2. We get a perfect example of what Akainu must have done even when he was struck back at Marineford.

3. We already knew this(or I know I did since Boa) but its great to see without a doubt a product of a devil fruit not physically connected to its user being imbued and maintaining armament Haki.

4. Sanji so confidently telling Pudding that Kata is about to suffer his first loss.

5. Seeing the cooking with all the giant kitchen ware and utensils.

6. Having another example beyond Pudding, that even in a super diverse nation, people are still hung up on their natural appearances. I know people are still upset by Pudding having insecurities about herself and just going head over heels when Sanji gave her a compliment because its so fake(it's not! Ya'll aint never been in love! especially not phony teenage love, which ironically I'm told is the most honest love there is). No matter what ideals or stupid utopia people strive for in Totland or the real world there will always be insecurities regarding ones own looks.

@Halfmetal-lich:

Chapters like these are fucking horrible to read week to week,

lol eFing horrible.

[Blissed]

@DarkHamster:

meh. this chapter literally nothing changed….we just got small bits of info. omg why oda stop dragging out luffy fights.

I swear some people are reading something different…

[MrBits]

Another great chapter.

Can someone explain the title for me? Why is it called "Who?"

[Count Mario]

So katakuri WAS dodging attacks by using Observation Haki. That's neat. I would have preferred the gag of Katakuri's face being built up earlier than the last chapter if it's going to be the key to Luffy winning or stalemating the fight by disturbing Katakuri's focus, but I'm fine with the chapter otherwise. It was pretty cool to see Praline sing too even though I was initially underwhelmed by the Fishman Pirates still sticking around just because. The fight's gotten more interesting to look at now that Katakuri has quit copying Luffy's attacks. That part of the fight felt a bit eh to me since Luffy didn't transform into Gear Fourth yet. Gear Fourth being effective against Katakuri while the latter is still solidly holding his own ground is a great balance of respect towards the two characters. And it helps credit Cracker on how his fight with Luffy lasted as long as it did due to the specific advantages of his Devil Fruit in comparison to Luffy's.

@.access:

Last ray of hope… Pudding keep being called that or am I mistaken? And it seems she is already comfortable enough to call Sanji affectionately without having to pretend to hate him right after.

Wasn't the chapter where Pudding was revealed as a traitor called "Ray of Hope"? How ironic.

@KageKageKing:

Katakuri reminded me of Bayonetta.
http://i.giphy.com/ln24jw3tVBygg.gif

I thought of the exact same thing lol.

@kevo_koma:

Did Katakuri's back touch the floor? Now I'm more sure that Morgans will defnitely cover up what happened on Whole Cake Island and no one will know that Luffy beat Katakuri.

Nope. He literally smashed his head into the ground to bounce himself upright again before his back could touch the ground. The perfect blind of silliness and looking badass lol.

@kevo_koma:

I would expect a Yonkou to have someone with a healing Devil Fruit or Doctors who are good enough to revive important characters when they are urgently needed. or have some smelling salts lying around somewhere.

The only healing Devil Fruits we have seen in the series are Mansherry and Law's, the latter needing extensive surgical knowledge. So I don't think it's weird for Devil Fruit healers to not be common. And there's no point in having characters get knocked out if a random item like smelling salts is going to get them right back up again.

[Blissed]

Think it was "Ray of Light". Regardless, the irony's still there.

[garonne]

@ralf21:

Am i the only one hoping that for once the crew's blind fate in Luffy will get dashed ? Now that i've read this chapter, i'm confident that no matter how Oda spins it, i won't enjoy a Luffy win against Katakuri. The story calls for his defeat at this point, otherwise just hand him the crown already if his every opponent will end up defeated by an asspull.
Bah, i was hoping for better in spite of all the indications to the contrary.

you sound silly. the plot calls for luffy to struggle so he can overcome the struggle. the plot is showing us that this opponent is a next level individual who luffy has to overcome. his crew has faith in their captain; this is only shown as the plot is showing forshadowing. the story is following the next pirate king, not some random mook. We expect luffy to develop and we're seeing how he's doing it. if the story is for luffy to lose then the story will go in that direction like it did in shaboady, impel down and marineford. the problem you're having is that you know katakuri's bounty and that he's basically a right hand to a yonkou, you know his strength, but you are doubting the strength of the main character of the story. he's struggling now, he will continue to struggle until he becomes pirate king, struggling doesnt mean it will be a loss, it this instance, it means a goal to overcome.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@kevo_koma:

Luffy should be able to go to the next level of haki in this fight. We laready know he's good at Haki, so I can easily accept that he might level up during this fight. This way Luffy can at least take out a Calamity single-handedly in the future and land significant damaging blows to Kaidou.

If the cake is such a priority. Why isn't Streussen cooking it again?

The Sun Pirates finally paid off, so that's one plot thread over and done with. I'm expecting the Lion-turtle guy to also play a role in the arc before it ends.

Did Katakuri's back touch the floor? Now I'm more sure that Morgans will defnitely cover up what happened on Whole Cake Island and no one will know that Luffy beat Katakuri.

the last we heard, he fell and hit his head after turning the chateau into a cake.

[Sads]

@MrBits:

Another great chapter.

Can someone explain the title for me? Why is it called "Who?"

Probably the mystery of "who" stole all the security sea slugs from under their noses? I guess they'll never know!

Also has me suspecting that the Big Mom Pirates will be very busy with other entities challenging them after the Straw Hats escape. If news gets out other Pirates and even the Marines might be more confident about attacking their territory. If the Straw Hats could, why can't we? And no sea slugs for early warnings!

[ralf21]

@andy:

This is not fully true he did out class luffy yes but it was thanks to his CoO along with everything else.
His CoO is a big part of his fighting style plus it was Gear 2 and 3 luffy so the fight was in the early stages .
Also luffy did not struggle against Don he was kicking his ass until he run out of time .

We know CoO is useless without speed to match it, Katakuri's Haki allowed him to toy with Luffy, but losing it shouldn't mean getting slapped through walls. But still i can accept that as it was a momentary laps, i won't accept it as a means for Luffy to win the fight.

Luffy in Gear 4 didn't stomp Doflamingo, Luffy was faster and stronger yes, but it still was an extended fight, wich was off panneled maybe that's why people get that impression. At any rate, there was too much bs going on in that fight (what with the not quite but almost undestructible threads an Admiral can't cut but i can blow by expanding and punching through), there's no real value to it for either side of this argument.

We have no baseline to say how strong and fast the Gear makes him, which is a rather convenient if cheap way for Oda to pull power ups that shouldn't be possible.

[Ping]

Pandaman… you ruin my eye...

[.access timeco.]

It's weird when you think that Luffy is already fighting enemies that require him to use every ounce of strength he acquired in the timeskip and some more, but Zoro still didn't got any enemy that seemed to require some effort of him (sry, pica).

@Sads:

Probably the mystery of "who" stole all the security sea slugs from under their noses? I guess they'll never know!

Also has me suspecting that the Big Mom Pirates will be very busy with other entities challenging them after the Straw Hats escape. If news gets out other Pirates and even the Marines might be more confident about attacking their territory. If the Straw Hats could, why can't we? And no sea slugs for early warnings!

It's not like Praline is going to sing forever. Once the SH leave Totto Land, the Sun Pirates will leave as well and it is very unlikely that anyone would find out about the breach in security and invade Totto Land in less time than it takes to go from Whole Cake Island to Cacao Island.

[Koliber]

Well, it's the difference in strength between antagonist's leader and sidekicks discussed before. Zoro and Luffy were always fairly close in strength, that's why Zoro has always been made unable to fight to his fullest against arc enemies* (or one time basically took the show for himself in WP where Luffy was more of an obstacle than the hero) until Alabasta, when they both met "indestructible" opponents and Zoro found his match. Then in Skypiea Luffy was Enel's natural enemy so Zoro could lose without there being much of a difference between them.
* - obviously not counting Mihawak

[Xelloss]

Let's see where this is heading. After this chapter, Katakuri's advantage is shrinking but is still large

1. devil fruit powers: awakening gives Katakuri so many ways to use his mochi powers that Luffy cannot match

2. Haki:
   a) armament: in G4, Luffy can break Katakuri's CoA, but he needs to land a hit
   b) observation: Katakuri's mastering of CoO is at a whole different level. Luffy will have a very difficult time hitting him, unless he loses focus
   c) conqueror: ???

Now there are three things that may happen:

• Luffy awakens his devil fruit.
  Frankly I'm not looking forward to this development: sure it's going to happen sooner or later, but it doesn't look like awakening can give the sort of boost Luffy needs to beat his opponent

• Luffy's CoO becomes at least as good as Katakuri's.
  This is even worse. No way he can match Katakuri at his specialty mid-fight: not even Bigmom has the ability to see the future!

• Luffy will win through an unexpected development of his CoC.
  This is something I'd want to see! Right now, conqueror's haki has only been used to dispose of fodder, but it is implied it goes much farther than that.
  Being an ability that cannot be achieved through experience or training (or even by eating a magical fruit…), it is rare and expected to exceed anything else we've seen so far.
  Can Luffy beat Katakuri's specialty (CoO) by means of his own specialty (CoC)? I'm sure he can!

[imperioonepiece]

@RomanceDawn:

Things I really loved about this chapter:

2. We get a perfect example of what Akainu must have done even when he was struck back at Marineford.

Wow, I had not thought about that! You're right!

It also serves to show that admirals, and Yonkous maybe more stronger than what we or I imagined, because what Katakuri is doing probably is something that Akainu, Kizaru, and Aokiji are able of doing.

Well, we also have yet to see what they did to stop a Whitebeard's attack:http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20101204160832/onepiece/images/1/17/The_Admirals_use_Haki.png