@Cyan:
This movie takes place during the few days before the Cell Games, that's why it's one of the two DBZ movies to fit in the Canon timeline.
I assume that's not including the new ones, but wouldn't there be three? This one, Bojack (in the time-skip after Cell), and Hildegarn. (doesn't really have an impact on anything, but it does take place after Buu is beaten)
Admittedly, it's been a while since I've seen the Hildegarn movie, so I could be mistaken on that one.
What's your power level? … Mine's pretty big
WEN BROLY, NOW
WEN BROLY SECOND CoMING
Eh, kinda rushed for what its the only Dragon Ball OVA I like (not counting the classic TV Specials).
But the "he is so cool but so damn dumb" was kind on point.
He's SO COOL! But he's SO DUMB…!
Loved Paragus giving Vegeta the "Legendary Super Saiyan shtick" too
"You're just mad cause you are not the Legendary Super Namekian."
"Eh, I'll pull something out of my ass."
"IT WILL BE BROLY'S FIST"
"Yeah, probably."
Vegeta's reaction to Broly is the fanbase in a nutshell: part "he's so cool" mixed with "he's so dumb". Loved it.
Piccolo best dad.
fiiiinally
we can move on to BOJACK
Set Art by Daily Rowlet
Did Paragus give Vegeta the same speech that Vegeta kept giving to Frieza?
Kaiser opens up Twitter, sees nothing but #WENBOJACK in his feed
It'd be nice if people could realize it kinda depends on where and when they fit. Broly 2 basically before the Buu tournament. Bojack after the tournament.
Bojack has a dead Goku but Trunks is still there, so it has to be right after Cell. Broly 2 had Videl in it but knowing Gohan goes super, and Broli 3 had Mr. Satan owing Android 18 so… timing will be weird. Movie 12 where Vegeta is dead is extra awkward.
Isn't Bojack right after Cell? Seeing as Future Trunks is still a thing and Gohan is still a kid.
Aside from (re)doing Wheelo, don't they usually do them in the order they were released anyways?
Yep, at the time where they would approximately fit into the canon. Bojack should be released right after the Cell Saga ends, followed by Broly 2 between Great Saiyaman and the World Tournament.
If you get dunked on in the dream, you get dunked on in real life
Yep, at the time where they would approximately fit into the canon. Bojack should be released right after the Cell Saga ends, followed by Broly 2 between Great Saiyaman and the World Tournament.
Ohhh I see what you're saying. So realistically, I'd say the Cell stuff has….5 episodes? left, then I guess Bojack would be a neat summer treat.
Ohhh I see what you're saying. So realistically, I'd say the Cell stuff has….5 episodes? left
Depends on how much fun they have with Mr. Satan.
I can't see Cell Games really taking more than 5 or 6 episodes really, unless they feel like adapting some of Gohan's random adventures too. Bojack should be out within the year.
People like Bojack that much?
Broly just got torn to shreds, the entire episode was a thinly veiled criticism on his character.
@Great:
Broly just got torn to shreds, the entire episode was a thinly veiled criticism on his character.
Well, it's not like TFS's disdain for Broly is a big secret or anything (skip to number 17)
Well, it's not like TFS's disdain for Broly is a big secret or anything (skip to number 17)
Yeah, I thought it was a hilarious episode overall. It's almost cathartic to watch after putting up with so many rabid Broly fanboys over the years.
I don't thonk I can ever watch the original movies again lol. The little digs at how dumb Broly was and the villain naming.
Also Piccolo just grabbin Vegeta by the hair and Vegeta not struggling is probably always one of the more wtf moments in that movie.
This movie seems fitting, Broly is dumb, but fuck he's cool.
I preferred the first half to the second. Casual Broly was just perfect and they seems to keep their side plots in check by having Yajiboré marrying Karin. I enjoyed those masochists slaves to much.
I don't think it was as a good once Broly got transformed but they were plenty good moment.
Vegeta fighting between fanboying over Broly or critizing how stupid the character is. "He's so cool but he is so dumb"
Vegeta getting the speech he kept giving Freeza. Sadly Paragus didn't finish it.
"What's a god to a non-believer" Get splashed."I believe"
"I killed Freezer" "That's hot"
They must really not like Broly considering the complaining they had the heroes do at the end and leaving Broly past intact to troll it. It was still a good one with plenty a good Vegeta moments.
King Kai: "That man is going to be the death of me."
Wow, nice one.
Heh, nice seeing them do some YYH abridged for the first time in like 7 years.
It's weird when you suddenly get reminded that even Master Roshi has abilities that do damage well beyond a lot of main characters from other manga can do, let alone characters from later in the series.
did they remember the Lightning Surprise he used as Jackie Chun?
that feels like a technique I could see Super revisiting
Set Art by Daily Rowlet
So we've reached the logical conclusion of their relationship with Chris Sabat and
(during the dramatic reenactment of Mr. Satan saving the world from Cell).@Cyan:
So we've reached the logical conclusion of their relationship with Chris Sabat and
(during the dramatic reenactment of Mr. Satan saving the world from Cell).
Was that Masako and Lanipator?!
Holy shit
@Great:
Broly just got torn to shreds, the entire episode was a thinly veiled criticism on his character.
Even though I love TeamFourStart, a great deal of the criticism they included is based on misinterpretations of the actual Broly movie, as we can read about here: http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=37309
Even though I love TeamFourStart, a great deal of the criticism they included is based on misinterpretations of the actual Broly movie, as we can read about here: http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=37309
Where did the crying Goku = mad Broly theory come from in the first place? I've heard it for years.
Where did the crying Goku = mad Broly theory come from in the first place? I've heard it for years.
I don't know for sure, but I believe that it was mix of people misunderstanding the crying flashback and the dub not doing as good of a job as the sub. What's incredible is how prevalent it is nowadays with even well-informed fans like the guys over at TeamFourStar apparently seeing it as true, when all we have to do is watch the actual movie and the explanation for Broly's reaction is spelled out for us by Paragus.
That doesn't account for Broly 2, where he flips the fuck out when he hears Goten crying because he thinks it's Goku.
What's incredible is how prevalent it is nowadays with even well-informed fans like the guys over at TeamFourStar apparently seeing it as true, when all we have to do is watch the actual movie and the explanation for Broly's reaction is spelled out for us by Paragus.
From the thread in question:
Nowhere in the entire movie is it stated or implied that Broly "hates" anyone. His reaction to Goku is explained by Paragus when he says: ""Could it be Kakarot? Does this mean that Broly's instints as a Saiyan have been awakened by Kakarot's power and he is starting to overcome the limits of my control?". That's the explanation. Goku's power is stimulating Broly's saiyan instincts. That's it.
Imo that's vague and nondescript, and feels like just as much of a flimsy reason than "Goku cried and I hated that".
Perhaps the writer should've focused on Broly hating Vegeta. He's a Saiyan too and the man who looked like him stabbed him and left him for dead!
@Cyan:
That doesn't account for Broly 2, where he flips the fuck out when he hears Goten crying because he thinks it's Goku.
Goku had punched a hole in his chest in the last movie. In movie 10, Broly has every reason to hate Goku and everything related to him and Goten sounds and looks like Goku. Goten wasn't merely crying, he was also yelling using a voice that sounds remarkably like Goku's voice.
It's indeed possible that at that time his subconscious went into his deepest memories and retrieved the memory of Goku crying thanks to Goten sounding remarkably like him but that doesn't change the fact that it's not even suggested that he remembered Goku's crying before then (aka in movie 8) and it doesn't change the fact that that's not the explanation offered for why he reacted to Goku is such a fashion in movie 8. As for movie 10, what happened in movie 8 explains easily his focus and hatred towards Goku with nothing even suggesting more than perhaps a recolletion of Goku's crying closely associated with what he experienced in movie 8 that helped him to wake up.
I would say that in movie 10 Broly actually managed to remember baby Goku's crying (even though that's not the source of his hatred, what happened in movie 8 is), but he didn't remember it in movie 8 (because nothing suggests he did).
From the thread in question:
Imo that's vague and nondescript, and feels like just as much of a flimsy reason than "Goku cried and I hated that".
Perhaps the writer should've focused on Broly hating Vegeta. He's a Saiyan too and the man who looked like him stabbed him and left him for dead!
As we see time and time again, Saiyans crave and basically live for challenges and to fight strong guys. More than once Goku put the world in potential danger just because of that (when he let Piccolo go, when he let Vegeta live, when he tried to let Freeza go, etc). Therefore, it makes perfect sense for a strong guy to also stimulate Broly's instincts.
In any case, the point is that's the explanation actually provided by the movie, not that it was Goku's crying as a baby or that Broly remembers Goku as a baby which has isn't actually supported by the movie.
They didn't misinterpret anything. That was the actual Broccoli movie.
I watched it subtitled only for years, have only watched the dub of it once (Its ruined by the music they added) , and the interpretation is ALWAYS that crying Goku is what set Broccoli off. There is no other way to take what the movie shows and keeps reiterating with the visuals and when and where they intercut clips of those flashbacks.
Especially then reinforced in the second Broccoli film.
It is NOT a misinterpretation brought about because of the dub.
Any other interpretation is trying to take a truly awful braindead character and make him more interesting than he actually was, because fanbois needed their precious bestest character to not be super awful and dumb.
They didn't misinterpret anything. That was the actual Broccoli movie.
I watched it subtitled only for years, have only watched the dub of it once (Its ruined by the music they added) , and the interpretation is ALWAYS that crying Goku is what set Broccoli off. There is no other way to take what the movie shows and keeps reiterating with the visuals and when and where they intercut clips of those flashbacks.
Paragus (around 22 minutes and 39 seconds into the movie): "Could it be Kakarot? Does this mean that Broly's instints as a Saiyan have been awakened by Kakarot's power and he is starting to overcome the limits of my control?"
That's the only explanation offered by the movie regarding Broly's reaction to Goku. Never is it even suggested that Broly remembers Goku or that his crying has made him mad. If I'm somehow mistaken please point me towards the quotes that demonstrate that I'm mistaken. Any other doubts, please refer to the topic I linked to and if the info in the topic is somehow mistaken, please point towards how exactly it is mistaken and the quotes that demonstrate so.
Honestly. The crying thing makes more sense than awakening saiyan instincts. What does that even mean? Is this common? Do saiyans have an instinctual trigger? And how was it Kakkarot's power? Wasn't it stated over and over that Goku was an average baby?
Aside from the flashback, Broccoli mentally breaking down to saying only Goku's name, and movie 10?
The very end of the film when Goku punches Broccoli in the chest to kill him, Broccoli flashes back again to the crying baby Goku, and in turn, Goku's crying as an infant upsetting him.
If anything, the dub undercut this point by having Broccoli still talking in complete sentences at that point, and playing awful "hardcore" music over the scene while enhancing all the shouting to drown out the flashback, which in the Japanese had much more emotional instrumental at that point and focused on.
Honestly. The crying thing makes more sense than awakening saiyan instincts. What does that even mean? Is this common? Do saiyans have an instinctual trigger? And how was it Kakkarot's power? Wasn't it stated over and over that Goku was an average baby?
It was Kakarot's power when he meets Broly, not when he was a baby. When Goku meets Broly (as an adult), Goku is the strongest being of the universe (or one of the strongest).
It has been demonstrated time and time again that saiyans crave and live for challenges and to fight strong opponents. It's part of them, a tendency or an instinct. Goku himself has put Earth on potential danger several times because of that (by letting Piccolo go, by letting Vegeta live, by trying to let Freeza go, etc). So, Goku's power stimulating Broly's instincts makes perfect sense to me and is perfectly consistent with what we know of the saiyans.
In any case, the point is that the movie actually states that explanation.
Aside from the flashback, Broccoli mentally breaking down to saying only Goku's name, and movie 10?
Broly only breaks down to that state in movie 10. He doesn't break down in movie 8.
By movie 10, Broly had been frozen and comatose with very serious injuries for years which have left him unstable and obsessed with the man that defeated him and caused him that much pain.
Although the movie suggests that Broly has managed to remember baby Goku thanks to the very similar cry of Goten, nothing suggests that Broly is focused on Goku in that fashion because of the cry and not because Goku punched a hole in his chest, nearly killed him and caused him to be frozen and comatose for years.
The very end of the film when Goku punches Broccoli in the chest to kill him, Broccoli flashes back to the crying baby Goku, and in turn, Goku's crying as an infant upsetting him.
That is talked about in the topic I linked to. Here:
"However, besides that, we also get two unknown guys in the flashback commenting on Broly and Goku as babies, and this is what they have to say:
"I'm shocked by Paragus's son. He's just been born and yet his power level is already 10.000." "Bardock's son with a power level of only 2, made Paragus' son cry!" "His power level may be low but that kid at least has guts!"
So, what can we take from these statements? They seem to stress the difference in their power and how Goku was still able to affect Broly despite of this. But can we take from these statements that Goku's crying played a part on Broly's reaction despite what Paragus said and his expositional lines? What are the point of these statements if not?
I believe the movie answers this question 1 hour, 8 minutes and 24 seconds into the movie when Broly is being defeated by Goku and the crying flashback, once again, is played. It seems to be at this moment that the statements made by those two unknown guys gain meaning. As they said, baby Goku was much weaker than baby Broly, but he still found a way to disturb him with his cry. And isn't that basically what happened in the fight in the movie? Goku was much weaker, but he still found a way to disturb and beat Broly, by cumulating the power of his friends with his own and striking back.
The guys that made this movie chose to repeat that flashback as Broly was being defeated and I see no other plausible justification for that than giving meaning to the words of those two unkowns. That means that the crying flashback works as foreshadowing and a metaphor for the fight between Broly and Goku, and not as the cause for Broly's actions towards Goku. Even though it's possible to interpret the flashback in that way, the statements of those two unknowns don't say or imply by themselves that Broly remembers Goku or that he became crazy due to Goku's crying, and in conjunction with the rest of the movie, namely the repetition of the flashback as Broly is being defeated, I am forced to conclude that those statements are not an indication that Broly remembers Goku or that Goku's crying made Broly mad."
The crying infant sequence is shown multiple times, including upon Broccoli's death, and reiterated in the next film. Its Goku's arrival and presence that sets him off, long before Goku does any powering up to be at all threatening or strong.
You can tell yourself its more badass than that if you want by tring to interpret a line of dialogue to bring it up to present day so it seems less stupid, but that's not what the actual film(s, multiple) wanted to get across.
It's about baby Goku pissing him off and THAT being an instinctual reaction of hatred that sets him off.
And no, Broccoli devolves to saying JUST "Kakkarot" by the end of movie 8. That's not a movie 10 invention. Again, the dub actually undercut this by giving him MORE dialogue, but in the japanese after his gives his "I'm the devil" line its pretty much just "Kakkarot" after that.
I watched movie 8 a LOT back in the day, and didn't see movie 10 until years later, and only watched that one maybe twice. My assessment on what happened in that film is not biased around the later movies, (event though they do reiterate the point) but what happened in that one.
The crying infant sequence is shown multiple times, including upon Broccoli's death, and reiterated in the next film. Its Goku's arrival and presence that sets him off, long before Goku does any powering up to be at all threatening or strong.
You can tell yourself its more badass than that if you want by tring to interpret a line of dialogue to bring it up to present day so it seems less stupid, but that's not what the actual film(s, multiple) wanted to get across.
It's about baby Goku pissing him off and THAT being an instinctual reaction of hatred that sets him off.
It's not about being more badass, more stupid, more cool, disliking Broly or liking Broly. It's about what actually is in the actual movie. I've analyzed the movie and reached my conclusions based on what is actually there. I'm not saying that you have to agree but if you want to disagree do so with arguments also based on the movie(s).
And you've reached the wrong conclusions that ignore what is actually there.
The guys that made this movie chose to repeat that flashback as Broly was being defeated and I see no other plausible justification for that than giving meaning to the words of those two unkowns. That means that the crying flashback works as foreshadowing and a metaphor for the fight between Broly and Goku, and not as the cause for Broly's actions towards Goku.
Here, I'll make it easy for you.
The guys that made this movie chose to repeat that flashback as Broly was being defeated and I see no other plausible justification for that than as the cause for Broly's actions towards Goku.
You clearly SEE the reason, you just don't want to admit it because it's super dumb and has been for twenty years.
It's a dragonball movie. They weren't putting in metaphors and foreshadowing and trying to be deep. They were making stupid dumb action movies for the kids.
It was Kakarot's power when he meets Broly, not when he was a baby. When Goku meets Broly (as an adult), Goku is the strongest being of the universe (or one of the strongest).
It has been demonstrated time and time again that saiyans crave and live for challenges and to fight strong opponents. It's part of them, a tendency or an instinct. Goku himself has put Earth on potential danger several times because of that (by letting Piccolo go, by letting Vegeta live, by trying to let Freeza go, etc). So, Goku's power stimulating Broly's instincts makes perfect sense to me.
But why didn't he get set off just being by Vegeta? Why keep showing the scene of Goku crying? To me it was always shown that the sound and the name set Broly off. Goku wasn't really in fight mode when they first met as adults and Goku wasn't shown as a powerful baby iirc. So the fighting instinct thing doesn't really make sense to me.
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