And then there are all these crocodiles appearing in the story lately…
Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !
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This is a longshot, and how would he phrase it in the sbs?
R:"Dear odachii this cartoon of three dog musketeers was the inspiration of the 3 musketeers"
O:"lol what"Or maybe, it could be comunicated like a sane person using a decent grasp of language instead of grunting like a inbread troll that lives under a bridge with little contact with humans.
Picture this:
R: Hey, Odachii, I really liked Zou, it was really fun.
I specially liked Inuarashi (and/or Wanda) because he was a dog musketeer and when I was a kid I saw an anime where the 3 musketeers were dogs instead of humans.
Did you watch that anime too?Model answer 1-
O: Yes, I did. I'm glad you liked it and that you noticed it.Model answer 2-
O: No, I've never seen such anime. I just though musketeers are cool and decided to use them in this part of the story.
But I'm gald you liked it.Model answer 3-
O: Now that you mentioned it, I did see a couple of episodes but I wasn't thinking about it when I made Inuarashi a musketeer.
I just though muketeers are cool but I'm glad you liked it.See, language can be fun if you pay attention to it. Like understanding that the kid's anime was not a show with 3 dog musketeers but an adaptation of the 3 Musketeers with dogs instead of humans.
You can even be polite and nice to people while using it. It really brings a new level of understanding to your world vision and it's helpfull when adressing other people. -
Actual answer:
Penis joke.
Or maybe, it could be comunicated like a sane person using a decent grasp of language instead of grunting like a inbread troll that lives under a bridge with little contact with humans.
You can even be polite and nice to people while using it. It really brings a new level of understanding to your world vision and it's helpfull when adressing other people.
We're trying to be polite here. I took the blame for the misunderstanding about your pet theory. Twice! But the more you harp on this and the angrier you get, while trying to disguise it, the more everyone is going to turn against you.
Please, take a breath, and calm down before you post again, without being passive aggressive.
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Why did Bearious get the banhammer: yeah, he was a little peevish, but he really did nothing that wrong.
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Why did Bearious get the banhammer: yeah, he was a little peevish, but he really did nothing that wrong.
He's been consistently awful in the past and he reminded me that he existed in a stupid way.
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A question for Greg, regarding this panel here:
http://i.imgur.com/LA5z0jA.png
Here you pointed out that Kaido jumps with his arms crossed. In the anime however, he is grabbing his right arm:
http://i.imgur.com/IOB0VKI.gif
So which one is correct ? And has the grabbing any kind of meaning ?
Not in particular. It's just how one interprets it. There are plenty of times where the anime has deviated from the source due to interpretation of a scene and, although it's nothing I'll ever discuss in detail publicly, there are instances where I, myself have actually led to how a certain aspect of the series in the animation has been depicted. Naturally that wasn't me saying, "Hey, it should be this way!" I don't have that kind of say, nor should I, but observations that I've made with the team have definitely led to some very specific outcomes.
So regarding Kaido, is it how the team interpreted the scene? Possibly! Was it one of Oda's specific clarifications? Possibly. Some people see it one way, I see it as a clear depiction of his nonchalant approach to the fall.
Either way, if Kaido is what I think he is, it serves very little importance to his ability.
Re: Musketeergate
It's possible. When it comes to inspiration, there's very little room for the WRONG hammer unless Oda confirms one way or the other. That said,it's very easy to Nostradamus a lot in the series. Since the series is so vast, has so many hundreds of characters and Oda clearly uses the world around him to inspire his work, one can throw a good deal of mud at the wall and a lot of it will stick.
So should you be decried for presenting an idea? Nope! But are people surely going to present counterpoints? You bet. Only one way to find out!
As for why I offered that ranger idea, like all other things, without a public confirmation it could swing any way. But I will say I do have certain reasons for confidence in that suggestion.
Look, Oda is a movie super-fan. Every time we meet we talk about movies or TV series. He loves to entertain and he loves to be entertained and you're definitely going to find bits and pieces of what he finds entertaining in his own work. Sometimes the resemblances are, perhaps intentionally, similar, and sometimes they're presented in ways I doubt anyone will ever decipher without asking the man himself.
The important thing to remember is to never stop looking, don't worry too much about what others say, but also be open to criticism.
My next column is going to be up in about an hour and it's awesome.
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Greg, you are a better man than I.
Nicely said.
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Actual answer:
Penis joke.
We're trying to be polite here. I took the blame for the misunderstanding about your pet theory. Twice! But the more you harp on this and the angrier you get, while trying to disguise it, the more everyone is going to turn against you.
Please, take a breath, and calm down before you post again, without being passive aggressive.
The penis joke is always a possibility.
And I was not being passive agressive, I was directly adressing maxterdexter's rudeness and poor attempt at vexing. If it looked passive agressive I guess it must have been because I was trying to use a condescending tone, which I do when I'm calm. If I'm mad I'll just straight up call someone petty names mixed with cuss words.
maxterdexter misunderstood my original post and responded with an insult. You misunderstood my original post and that lead to a small discussion, our conversation was polite and we got to the same page.
After that dexter came back and wrote a very poorly constructed sentence. He's right on one thing, the response that "question" would have. I read it and I though "lol, what?"Would it be better if I rephrased those two lines as:
"I would ask it in a clear and simple matter, instead of using your line where the user sounds like a creature of low intellegence and limited speech. No one talks like that, son.""And please, try to be nice to other people when you speak with them. It's easier for everybody."
Re: Musketeergate
It's possible. When it comes to inspiration, there's very little room for the WRONG hammer unless Oda confirms one way or the other. That said,it's very easy to Nostradamus a lot in the series. Since the series is so vast, has so many hundreds of characters and Oda clearly uses the world around him to inspire his work, one can throw a good deal of mud at the wall and a lot of it will stick.
So should you be decried for presenting an idea? Nope! But are people surely going to present counterpoints? You bet. Only one way to find out!
As for why I offered that ranger idea, like all other things, without a public confirmation it could swing any way. But I will say I do have certain reasons for confidence in that suggestion.
Look, Oda is a movie super-fan. Every time we meet we talk about movies or TV series. He loves to entertain and he loves to be entertained and you're definitely going to find bits and pieces of what he finds entertaining in his own work. Sometimes the resemblances are, perhaps intentionally, similar, and sometimes they're presented in ways I doubt anyone will ever decipher without asking the man himself.
The important thing to remember is to never stop looking, don't worry too much about what others say, but also be open to criticism.
My next column is going to be up in about an hour and it's awesome.
Sorry I cluttered your thread.
As people have realised after the misunderstandings, I was submitting something for consideration not trying to prove anything.
That should have not warranted more than "Oh, that may be true" or "I think it's a just a happy coincidence" but you know what they say about the best laid plans of mice and men.I ended that post asking you directly if you could get an answer to that.
You have mentioned that you have a One Piece editor that checks and discusses what you submit or want to submit to the collumn. Don't know if he also confirms or denies some of references you mention on it but if he does I was hoping it wouldn't be too hard to ask him about that.If it's not how it works, well it's like a said to Robby. This is the closest I have to sending a postcard to the SBS and hoping Oda responds to it.
I write a post to you and hope you can give a response to it.As for the lastest column.
I had noticed Reiju's eyebrow and I believe we'll see what you suggest, that she has a right spiral and a left spiral.
And let us keep playing the waiting game until we see the Vinsmoke's parents eyebrows. -
Regarding Reiju's brow, are we sure it's not just a drawing mistake? Because those happen from time to time. Unless Greg knows more, it's impossible to be sure until either Reiju's whole face is shown or volume is released.
Since we don't know how old the name Germa 66 is, and assuming there's a relation between the name and the brows, as of now it's hard to tell if curly brows were a family trait before Sanji's generation. Currently, I'd bet on only the kids having it, which might later come into play in relationship between Judge and Ichiji and Niji.
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Garchu Greg-san, nice latest column
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Regarding Reiju's brow, are we sure it's not just a drawing mistake?
I've said it before and apparently I'll need to say it again, but fans may never be sure of anything until Oda says otherwise which is why I try to be as careful as possible with my verbiage. Thus:
"Reiju’s appear to curl to her left but this panel suggests that her right eyebrow doesn’t curl to her left.
If we accept that both eyebrows curling is a pattern then her right eyebrow should curl to her right."
It's rare that I write anything as black and white. If I do it's a mistake, which, believe it or not, does happen. Especially since I don't have an editor for the English version (something I'm not happy about).
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It's rare that I write anything as black and white. If I do it's a mistake, which, believe it or not, does happen. Especially since I don't have an editor for the English version (something I'm not happy about).
How come you don't have one? Where do you specifically look for editors? I'm sure that there would be people on this forum who'd be more than happy to fill that role if you'd ask around.
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I've said it before and apparently I'll need to say it again, but fans may never be sure of anything until Oda says otherwise which is why I try to be as careful as possible with my verbiage. Thus:
"Reiju’s appear to curl to her left but this panel suggests that her right eyebrow doesn’t curl to her left.
If we accept that both eyebrows curling is a pattern then her right eyebrow should curl to her right."
It's rare that I write anything as black and white. If I do it's a mistake, which, believe it or not, does happen. Especially since I don't have an editor for the English version (something I'm not happy about).
No need to elaborate again.
I was just wondering if it was maybe one of those false observations you mentioned you sometimes put in. And yeah, I know you can't and shouldn't answer that.
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Razh,
Ah! Then allow me to elaborate on that. There are no false observations. There's nothing that I put out knowing that it's deliberately false. However, there are observations where I simply offer an idea that I'm 'Nostradamusing' it myself.
In this case, I personally believe that Reiju's eyebrows are curling in different directions.
In the case of the Inuarashi and Nekomamushi's clash, I saw it, it reminded me of the Haki clash and threw it out there because, hey, you never know.
Just to be clear. There's nothing I throw out to troll or to intentionally mislead. There are just some suggested notions or predictions that aren't exactly winning ideas. As I mentioned before, if everything was in in-depth analysis mostly on point, it can take away from some of the enjoyment for some people.
This is also why, despite the call for it, there hasn't been an official analysis/prediction book by Shueisha or Toei aside from books that look at currently available material.
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Hi Greg-san,
This might be a stupid question, but is the content in your Japanese version column the same as the English version column?
For example, were there cases where you had to explain a concept/idea more in details in the English column because of culture differences?
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Razh,
Ah! Then allow me to elaborate on that. There are no false observations. There's nothing that I put out knowing that it's deliberately false. However, there are observations where I simply offer an idea that I'm 'Nostradamusing' it myself.
In this case, I personally believe that Reiju's eyebrows are curling in different directions.
In the case of the Inuarashi and Nekomamushi's clash, I saw it, it reminded me of the Haki clash and threw it out there because, hey, you never know.
Just to be clear. There's nothing I throw out to troll or to intentionally mislead. There are just some suggested notions or predictions that aren't exactly winning ideas. As I mentioned before, if everything was in in-depth analysis mostly on point, it can take away from some of the enjoyment for some people.
This is also why, despite the call for it, there hasn't been an official analysis/prediction book by Shueisha or Toei aside from books that look at currently available material.
Good to know. Firstly I took it as you just throwing a crazy idea you don't believe in yourself just to add variety. Like the one up there about BM being Crocodile's mother.
I'd like to say it would be weird for someone's mentality to be manifested in eyebrow positions but given the context it wouldn't be weird at all.
Btw, bringing up Sanji's reaction to Duval really blew my mind. Totally forgot his reaction to the unmasking was so focused on.
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Felton,
That's right. Although the content is largely the same, there are times when I will explain a potentially difficult to understand idea to one reader base or the other.
I'd like to say it would be weird for someone's mentality to be manifested in eyebrow positions but given the context it wouldn't be weird at all.
By that observation I don't mean to suggest they are the way they are because of their eyebrows, rather, Oda thought it would be interesting to have gimmicky representations of the characters' personas in their appearance.
Shadyagent,
This is not the first I've heard of your conspiratorial tit-for-tat nature but it's the first I've experienced it myself.
You sent me this PM and I was unable to reply because your inbox was full.
Hi Greg,
Your latest column proves that you posted comments onf spoilers/leaks (3 books
) on twitter ahead of the official release and didn't have the balls to admit it after I asked you about that. Instead you blocked me - for god's sake I wasn't unfriendly to you and even deleted the tweets.
No backbone at all.
But still I appreaciate the work your doing for One PieceKind regards
I explained that it wasn't the case.
You continued an aggressive machine gun style attack which you admit you deleted.
And you even attempted an unfounded smear against me on this board.
Not sure if you deleted it yet or not but I definitely saw that.In the end, it ended up being a coincidence in your favor.
I have no qualms with that, I'm also not insecure with my off-hand statement which is why I haven't deleted anything.If this makes you feel validated, then that's what it is.
Because you've pursued the matter here, I'll now be ignoring you here as well.
This is the last I'll speak of the (non) matter.
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I posted it in the Questions thread…not sure anymore. What are your thoughts on the Strawhats having another failure in a scale of Shabondy before the end of the series. I am not referring to losing a fight like they did initially with Ceasar though, something more devastating.
[hide] My option is failing at liberating Wano, however I would like to hear your opinion and how possible it might be. I could link to the post with further details on how I think it would come about, if interested or I'll PM.[/hide]
Thanks for taking the time to answer! I went full jelly mode with the "when I meet with Oda we watch…"
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Crocomom… Croco... mom... Mom... Big Mom :sad:
What if...?
Like, she was supposed to get married... And then escaped...
Turned into a man...
Changed identity...
Weirdly I would be okay with that. Silly but also decent idea in my opinion.
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Either way, if Kaido is what I think he is, it serves very little importance to his ability…..
I thought popular opinion was dragon type mythical zoan.His tattoo also looked like dragon scales…
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I thought popular opinion was dragon type mythical zoan.His tattoo also looked like dragon scales…
Some believe Ogre-themed.
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I thought popular opinion was dragon type mythical zoan.His tattoo also looked like dragon scales…
That's right.
…did I say something that contradicted that?
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I think it's also possible that whoever will face Zoro at Wano has the Dragon zoan, so that when Zoro will defeat him every samuari of Wano will acknowledge him as the legitimate owner of Shusui, since it once belonged to Ryuma who, according to the Wano legend, defeated a dragon with it.
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I'd rather Zoro's current sword to stay in Wano, and he gets someone to forge his meitou.
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That's right.
…did I say something that contradicted that?
No,i read your blog.You said Kaido's power could be of Lion or another beast.I was asking whether dragon was the other one in your mind or a different creature…
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Ah, that was a response to a past column, gotcha!
On a personal level, I'm of the opinion that Kaido has a dragon fruit and yes, that's exactly what I was inferring.
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Hey Greg, figured I'd ask since you seem to be pretty knowledgeable.
There are instances in One Piece where pretty crucial plot points have already been stated but as a reader it may not seem obvious unless you read every SBS or understand japanese, cause shit like this can get lost in translation all the time. The main one I'm thinking of is how Oda said in some interview that Ace vs Blackbeard on Banaro Island dialogue had a clue to Blackbeard's being able to have two DFs.
I think it was someone on AP who explained it but essentially the gist of it is that after Blackbeard invites Ace to join his crew Ace declines and says "You've lived twice the life of another, so you should know what the deal is". The explanation given on AP was that, if I'm in a cafe with my gf and you come and hit on my girl, I might tell you "Greg don't hit on another man's girlfriend". What I'm REALLY saying is "Don't hit on MY girlfriend"
So when Ace tells BB that, it can be read as "You're 40 years old, you're already an experienced pirate, you should know how this type of situation is and I won't join your crew" but apparently if we can also read it literally as BB having lived twice the normal life of normal people somehow then the clue to his DF becomes obvious.
So my question is, are there any other instances of important plot stuff like this in OP being hidden or obscured that you know of that Oda has elaborated on in some interview or SBS? Kind of vague but I'm just dying to know what other big clues I may have missed.
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I'm betting money on the Dragon-Dragon Fruit, Model: Yamata no Orochi for Kaido.
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I'm betting money on the Dragon-Dragon Fruit, Model: Yamata no Orochi for Kaido.
I'd much prefer that over the standard Asian Shenron-type dragon; that would be boring and trite as hell.
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@Rogues':
I'd much prefer that over the standard Asian Shenron-type dragon; that would be boring and trite as hell.
Yea but it all depends on execution. Lots of things in One Piece have been done countless times in prior shounen, but Oda's execution is so top tier that it makes it feel fresh af and makes it feel not boring or trite at all.
I'm kind of hoping that it is a Shenron type dragon, just to see what kind of twist Oda could put on it.
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Hey Greg, figured I'd ask since you seem to be pretty knowledgeable.
There are instances in One Piece where pretty crucial plot points have already been stated but as a reader it may not seem obvious unless you read every SBS or understand japanese, cause shit like this can get lost in translation all the time. The main one I'm thinking of is how Oda said in some interview that Ace vs Blackbeard on Banaro Island dialogue had a clue to Blackbeard's being able to have two DFs.
I think it was someone on AP who explained it but essentially the gist of it is that after Blackbeard invites Ace to join his crew Ace declines and says "You've lived twice the life of another, so you should know what the deal is". The explanation given on AP was that, if I'm in a cafe with my gf and you come and hit on my girl, I might tell you "Greg don't hit on another man's girlfriend". What I'm REALLY saying is "Don't hit on MY girlfriend"
So when Ace tells BB that, it can be read as "You're 40 years old, you're already an experienced pirate, you should know how this type of situation is and I won't join your crew" but apparently if we can also read it literally as BB having lived twice the normal life of normal people somehow then the clue to his DF becomes obvious.
So my question is, are there any other instances of important plot stuff like this in OP being hidden or obscured that you know of that Oda has elaborated on in some interview or SBS? Kind of vague but I'm just dying to know what other big clues I may have missed.
as far as i remember,that was only pure speculation and there was nothing said by oda in an interview.
also the living twice the life of another could possibly be interpreted that way,but the chances of that are very low and it's just pure speculation at this point taking a line of dialogue. -
@Tamiel:
I'd rather Zoro's current sword to stay in Wano, and he gets someone to forge his meitou.
I hope he gets the Kitetsu Nidai from the Shogun in Wano. Where else should he get a KATANA like that? I bet the "Gandhi Gorousei" has the Kitetsu Ichi(?)dai.
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I hope he gets the Kitetsu Nidai from the Shogun in Wano. Where else should he get a KATANA like that? I bet the "Gandhi Gorousei" has the Kitetsu Ichi(?)dai.
The first one is called Shodai Kitetsu. I also hope that Zoro will get a hold of Nidai (that would put all of his swords in the same class), and Wano seems like the place for it.
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I hope he gets the Kitetsu Nidai from the Shogun in Wano. Where else should he get a KATANA like that? I bet the "Gandhi Gorousei" has the Kitetsu Ichi(?)dai.
Am I alone when I think that Zoro should take advantage that the clan he is saving is renowned for their stone masons techniques, and that they could probably make him a high grade sword? Meito; Wado Ichimonji (formerly belonged to Kuina)
Sandai Kitetsu (formerly belonged to Ippon-Matsu)
Meito; Shusui (formerly belonged to Ryuma)Given that Shusui is a national treasure for Wano, maybe Momo will inherit it as a future Shogun. I just think it would be cool if he had a ~legendary~ sword in which he was the first user.
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@Tamiel:
Am I alone when I think that Zoro should take advantage that the clan he is saving is renowned for their stone masons techniques, and that they could probably make him a high grade sword? Meito; Wado Ichimonji (formerly belonged to Kuina)
Sandai Kitetsu (formerly belonged to Ippon-Matsu)
Meito; Shusui (formerly belonged to Ryuma)Given that Shusui is a national treasure for Wano, maybe Momo will inherit it as a future Shogun. I just think it would be cool if he had a ~legendary~ sword in which he was the first user.
I thought the Sandai Kitetsu already was a Meito. :blink:
If there is a huge afterparty after Kaidou's defeat, Zoro might have some time to "purchase" an own Katana from the Smiths at Wano. Maybe sth happens that the SHs Need to stay longer at Wano. At W7 it was the building of the Sunny-Go.@Evowarrior5
thx for correction, so it is the Shodai Kitetsu.I just re-read the chapter where G66 climbed the RL and thought:
"Why is G66 not invading MJ and Claims world rule?"
"Why doing a 'detour' with conquering North Blue?" If their army is envied by any other army, and their high tech is so high tech, what is preventing them from challenging the WG itself?
There must be a difference between climbing the redline and climbing to MJ, although a thug like Laffite didn't have a hard time reaching it (but he is small in scale compared to the lots of giant snails of Germa).
I always thought that the redline is a huge wall anyway and around the world, but I guess MJ is even at the highest Point of the Redline, which happens to be the same Point, where the GL crosses the RL. -
@Rogues':
I'd much prefer that over the standard Asian Shenron-type dragon; that would be boring and trite as hell.
Given Kaidou's mustache, and Oda's love of Dragonball… preeetty sue that's what we're getting. But also given Oda's love of Dragonball, it won't be that straight up either.
--- Update From New Post Merge ---
although a thug like Laffite didn't have a hard time reaching it
Well, he flew there. Much easier than climbing or dealing with security.
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Well, he flew there. Much easier than climbing or dealing with security.
Still seems that they should be prepared for, y'know, flying DFs.
Ah, One Piece, where everyone is perpetually shocked that someone else has a Demon Fruit and that it does something.
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Still seems that they should be prepared for, y'know, flying DFs.
Ah, One Piece, where everyone is perpetually shocked that someone else has a Dragon Fruit and that it does something.
Mitigated somewhat by the fact that apparently flying fruits are really rare. If it's limited to bird model zoans and Shiki, that's not a lot. And I guess maybe logias?
They had warlords in the room and admirals can get there in minutes. If there'd been a thing then there'd have been a thing.
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This post is deleted!
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Hey Greg, figured I'd ask since you seem to be pretty knowledgeable.
There are instances in One Piece where pretty crucial plot points have already been stated but as a reader it may not seem obvious unless you read every SBS or understand japanese, cause shit like this can get lost in translation all the time. The main one I'm thinking of is how Oda said in some interview that Ace vs Blackbeard on Banaro Island dialogue had a clue to Blackbeard's being able to have two DFs.
I think it was someone on AP who explained it but essentially the gist of it is that after Blackbeard invites Ace to join his crew Ace declines and says "You've lived twice the life of another, so you should know what the deal is". The explanation given on AP was that, if I'm in a cafe with my gf and you come and hit on my girl, I might tell you "Greg don't hit on another man's girlfriend". What I'm REALLY saying is "Don't hit on MY girlfriend"
So when Ace tells BB that, it can be read as "You're 40 years old, you're already an experienced pirate, you should know how this type of situation is and I won't join your crew" but apparently if we can also read it literally as BB having lived twice the normal life of normal people somehow then the clue to his DF becomes obvious.
So my question is, are there any other instances of important plot stuff like this in OP being hidden or obscured that you know of that Oda has elaborated on in some interview or SBS? Kind of vague but I'm just dying to know what other big clues I may have missed.
Some other lines like this one?
Sure, there's the one from Marco during the Paramount War about how Teach's body is somehow 'different' or 'strange' from what may be considered normal.As far as lines that might be hints in disguise, that's ALWAYS possible but to my knowledge Oda hasn't discussed any or pointed any out. That'd be like telling us what he got us for Christmas. There are plenty of hints that we'll probably notice in retrospect but the Marco one and they one you've mentioned are the two biggies so far.
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This post is deleted!
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Is it more of a consensus that Oda was referring to/hinting at that line(what Ace said)?
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Is it more of a consensus that Oda was referring to/hinting at that line(what Ace said)?
I think people are reading to it too much. I think Ace said what he means. That Blackbeard just lived for twice as long as he did. He's old, relatively.
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I always thought Blackbeard's explanation of the power of Yami Yami which 'absorb' the power of other DFs were a hint.Not that it gave any specific clue to future outcomes…..
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I think people are reading to it too much. I think Ace said what he means. That Blackbeard just lived for twice as long as he did. He's old, relatively.
Not really.
We've seen plenty of old people and 38 certainly isn't old in the OP world.
The line was also emphasized with marks in the Japanese version.
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Not really.
We've seen plenty of old people and 38 certainly isn't old in the OP world.
The line was also emphasized with marks in the Japanese version.
'with marks' means?Bold text or sort of?
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So was there or wasn't a confirmation from Oda in an interview? (Regarding Ace's line being a hint.) Because I remember it being talked about here a couple of years back but I can't remember if I actually read the translation of an interview.
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'with marks' means?Bold text or sort of?
Here's the panel, notice the side dots on the left speech bubble.
!
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^
Ok,thanks.
Was there any other such instances in OP(such marks)? -
^
Ok,thanks.
Was there any other such instances in OP(such marks)?Many other times. They were used in Dressrosa to emphasize the words "national treasure" by Doflamingo, and recently by Big Mom when she spoke about her dreams, the words "at the same eye level" had the side dots beside them. I don't know japanese (i only know the alphabets hiragana and katakana), i just like to gather info that we weastern readers don't get in traslations by reading Greg posts or other articles of japanese people, so i can't tell you in what other instances they were used. I'm sure Greg can give you a more detalied explanation.