Taking on work when you know that you can't guarante the quality seems pretty unprofessional.
Dragonball Discussion
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Taking on work when you know that you can't guarante the quality seems pretty unprofessional.
Good think Toei and many other animation studios don't have such a guarantee.
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Good think Toei and many other animation studios don't have such a guarantee.
Isn't an acceptable standard sort of an unstated demand whenever you are buying a service from someone?
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Isn't an acceptable standard sort of an unstated demand whenever you are buying a service from someone?
Depends on what's being bought I suppose and how much of a stickler you are for quality.
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Isn't an acceptable standard sort of an unstated demand whenever you are buying a service from someone?
If they had forced standards on the long runners the OP anime would have been cancelled years ago.
There's a minimum level of quality these things need to have to satisfy the common denominator, and occasionally they throw some extra time and budget on what they know will be big episodes, and otherwise let it ride as cheap as they can get away with.
Cause the fact is, the general audience really doesn't care that much unless its super bad consistently for a long time. An off week here or there, among hundreds of shows, isn't that big a deal.
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I remember Dragon Ball having tons of chapters with ultra cheap animation mixed up with other chapters that had quite good animation…but it wasn't as consistent as we're making it look like.
In fact you could detect a cheap chapter as soon as you saw the character designs; super angular and with little detail. As soon as I saw one of those, I was like "crappy episode incoming!".
Now, I'm with shinpanman in that everything Dragon Ball related done in the past decade looks like pure plastic. No spunk, no edge, no impact. And so, so shiny. . .
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Anyone find it hilarious how SSJ3 is straight up useless now?
It's as obsolete as it is ugly.
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Someone raised a good point about the Freeza movie:
! Couldn't King Kai warn the planet he was approaching, rather than Jaco doing it before only an hour of arrival time?
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No, because he, and all the gods above him, are not omnipotent and capable of monitoring the entire universe simultaneously… and can even miss things where they're paying attention.
Otherwise they would have known the first big explosion didn't destroy Namek, that Goku survived the destruction of namek, and the Buu saga would have been avoided entirely, among other things. (And if you accept other movies, been aware of Turles, Cooler, Metal Cooler, Slug, Broli, Bojack, and Hildegarn well in advance.)
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No, because he, and all the gods above him, are not omnipotent and capable of monitoring the entire universe simultaneously… and can even miss things where they're paying attention.
Otherwise they would have known the first big explosion didn't destroy Namek, that Goku survived the destruction of namek, and the Buu saga would have been avoided entirely, among other things. (And if you accept other movies, been aware of Turles, Cooler, Metal Cooler, Slug, Broli, Bojack, and Hildegarn well in advance.)
Point taken then. Hehe.
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They rly drag this whole beginning and having silly-episodes" like Pilaf and next week Vegeta pleasing Beerus…urgh.
Normally i would appreciate having some huour but here it just isn´t working.
Coming to the new stuff not already shown in the movies wwill still take a while :( -
@Don:
already shown in the movies
Can someone explain this to me. From which movies and scenes are we talking about?
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If they had forced standards on the long runners the OP anime would have been cancelled years ago.
Would they have? I mean if they couldn't make the big name money makers with a low budget and inexperienced staff, wouldn't they just re-locate funds and staff from cancelling other projects. Seems strange to think that they'd rather throw out their big names, to make lesser shows on a smaller budget. Like i'm not doubting your understanding of the business, a business i know absolutely nothing about btw. Just seems like a strange way to prioritize things.
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Looking back, Dragon Ball was no stranger to off-looking shots:
[hide]
[/hide]So easy come, easy go. It happens.
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Can someone explain this to me. From which movies and scenes are we talking about?
The TV show's first two arcs are covering Battle of Gods and Resurection of F, so the people who have already seen those two movies have a while to wait before seeing "new" content. (I put new in brackets because a lot of scenes are new in DBS, but the overall plot hasn't been so far)
Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk
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I remember Dragon Ball having tons of chapters with ultra cheap animation mixed up with other chapters that had quite good animation…but it wasn't as consistent as we're making it look like.
In fact you could detect a cheap chapter as soon as you saw the character designs; super angular and with little detail. As soon as I saw one of those, I was like "crappy episode incoming!".
Now, I'm with shinpanman in that everything Dragon Ball related done in the past decade looks like pure plastic. No spunk, no edge, no impact. And so, so shiny. . .
The worst animation supervisors on the first three series were Uchiyama Masayuki and Ebisawa Yukio. Both started getting bad during Dragon Ball Z as the character designs grew more detailed and angular. Uchiyama stopped using key animators aside from himself and Obara Tai'ichirou halfway through Dragon Ball Z while also having less time between their episodes, so the Last House episodes definitely suffered the most. Over at Studio Live Kan'no Toshiyuki eventually became so good he began doing the majority of the key animation mid-way through the Cell episodes with most of his shots left untouched. Kan'no is the guy who would do the majority of the key animation for Episode #230.
The reason the more modern stuff looks the same so often if because of Yamamuro Tadayoshi becoming worse and worse as a character designer. He has been the animation supervisor for the majority of the modern productions until Dragon Ball Super where he isn't as directly involved anymore outside of character designs. Yamamuro is pretty strict about sticking to his models, even if the animator is better than him. Shida Naotoshi is the only one to escape this on occasion, most notably One Piece Episode #590 where Yamamuro Tadayoshi was not involved.
Tate Naoki really hasn't had much of a chance to do anything major for modern Dragon Ball, which is such a shame given his history with the franchise and how much he improved after Dragon Ball GT ended. Dragon Ball Super Episode #5 should have been his big moment to shine if it hadn't been for the horrible scheduling.
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Looking back, Dragon Ball was no stranger to off-looking shots:
[hide]
[/hide]So easy come, easy go. It happens.
This one is the easily the best. Why are there 2 cells? Why does goku look like he is does not feeling it today? WHy is the cell in the back covering his eyes as if he is about to play peek-a-boo? So many questions
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A reminder this saturday we get.
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^ we will get a terribly drawn & terribly animated version of this
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This one is the easily the best. Why are there 2 cells? Why does goku look like he is does not feeling it today? WHy is the cell in the back covering his eyes as if he is about to play peek-a-boo? So many questions
It's been years since I've seen it and the picture isn't loading for me with my garbage internet, but I recall Cell using Tien's technique to split himself in four in the anime.
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This one is the easily the best. Why are there 2 cells? Why does goku look like he is does not feeling it today? WHy is the cell in the back covering his eyes as if he is about to play peek-a-boo? So many questions
I'd have to watch the scene but it looks like Goku is attacking an afterimage of Cell while the one behind is charging an attack.
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Better question is:
What's going on with Cell's lower half?
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Anyone find it hilarious how SSJ3 is straight up useless now?
It's as obsolete as it is ugly.
Was it ever useful though?
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Was it ever useful though?
It still had an honor of being the most powerful among canonical forms, despite it's issues.
Now even it's raw power has become insignificant.
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At this rate, we won't be seeing this "Universe 6" arc until early 2016….
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It still had an honor of being the most powerful among canonical forms, despite it's issues.
Now even it's raw power has become insignificant.
It's basically USSJ minus the ugly bulk.
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At this rate, we won't be seeing this "Universe 6" arc until early 2016….
And? What's the problem with that? We're still getting a ton of new material in the new episodes, its nt as if they are literally stetching just the movie content out.
I'd prefer they take their time and give us as much new Dragonball as possible rather than just rush it out and done. Who knows if or when we'd ever get another series.
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@Mr0:
The TV show's first two arcs are covering Battle of Gods and Resurection of F, so the people who have already seen those two movies have a while to wait before seeing "new" content. (I put new in brackets because a lot of scenes are new in DBS, but the overall plot hasn't been so far)
Thanks for the info. So it's good for me that I haven't seen these movies yet, I guess.
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And? What's the problem with that? We're still getting a ton of new material in the new episodes, its nt as if they are literally stetching just the movie content out.
I'd prefer they take their time and give us as much new Dragonball as possible rather than just rush it out and done. Who knows if or when we'd ever get another series.
This episode felt a bit padded out…. the choreography didn't help either. Only thing that has changed is the scenery of Bulma's party. I doubt Champa and Lady Whis will make an appearance very soon either. The only thing I'm interested so far (other than the U6 arc) is ROF getting some changes and filling out the blanks between BOG & ROF ( How SSGSS was obtained, when Whis took Vegeta/Goku as apprentices, etc..).
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^ we will get a terribly drawn & terribly animated version of this
The movie was terribly animated, so I don't see things being much different. Of course, we could always wind up with a win and get a good key animator to handle Vegeta's dance scene this time.
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Saw some people on 4chan say they would rather re-watch Dragon Ball Evolution than DBS episode 5..
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I suppose at the very least, both movies' events would have breathing room time.
Saw some people on 4chan say they would rather re-watch Dragon Ball Evolution than DBS episode 5..
Yikes, hyperbole much?
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Saw some people on 4chan say they would rather re-watch Dragon Ball Evolution than DBS episode 5..
Thus implying they watched it all the way through once.
Meaning their opinion is completely irrelevant about everything ever.
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The fact it's 4Chan should make it even more irrelevant.
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Either FX or FXX spent an entire weeken showing Dragon Ball Evolution on a loop a while back; I tried to watch it just to see if it was as bad as it looked and I just couldn't do it.
It was just too generic and dull; had it been made about twenty years ago, it almost certainly still been terrible but at least it would have had something to recommend it. Like Malcolm McDowell chewing scenery in Tank Girl or how Judge Dredd actually does an amazing job of looking like the comics despite going downhill from the second Stallone took off the helmet.
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ドラゴンボール超、観た!(^o^)僕の一原パートは、スーパーサイヤ人3のカメハメ波っぽい気彈の辺りの前後です。
バブルスくんとか描けて楽しかった(о´∀`о)
一カット画面暗かったのはデュレイ対策かな?僕の一原のところはキャプられないなぁ~(;´д`)
@hachunemick EDテロップの名前はその時々で色々あるようですよ。
今回は枚数順って事は無いですwそんなに枚数使ってないし。実際作画の崩れを期待して観るとがっかりするかも(^o^;)
It was said there was an animation collapse on Episode 5.
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It was all those bits of Goku swinging futilely as Beerus that stood out to me as being really, really bad. Not to say the rest of the episode was good, on the contrary it looked rather poor aside from a few cuts towards the end and Tate's brief bit, but those sequences reminded me of that episode of Durarara!!x2's first season that inexplicably had no in-betweening, and thus served as a lesson for why it's so important. The animators responsible for this one should be forced to watch that episode as a cautionary tale.
But the real tragedy for me was how padded the episode was despite the fact that it wasn't being adapted from anything. Not an ounce of tension to be found.
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I''m curious as to how they'll handle the Super Saiyan God transformation in the anime. In BoG Goku needed the power of 5 Saiyans, the fifth being fetus Pan. BoG took place 6 years after the Buu saga, which lines up with how old Pan is in the epilogue to DBZ which takes place 10 years after the Buu saga.
Now Dragon Ball Super takes place 6 moths after the Buu saga, though. We do have Videl and Gohan married now, but I'm wondering if they've just forgotten about the timeline at this point and are just gonna have Pan be born earlier in the timeline. That or they could simply change the number of Saiyans required to four, or introduce Tarble.
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I''m curious as to how they'll handle the Super Saiyan God transformation in the anime. In BoG Goku needed the power of 5 Saiyans, the fifth being fetus Pan. BoG took place 6 years after the Buu saga, which lines up with how old Pan is in the epilogue to DBZ which takes place 10 years after the Buu saga.
Now Dragon Ball Super takes place 6 moths after the Buu saga, though. We do have Videl and Gohan married now, but I'm wondering if they've just forgotten about the timeline at this point and are just gonna have Pan be born earlier in the timeline. That or they could simply change the number of Saiyans required to four, or introduce Tarble.
Of course they have forgotten about or they will simply say just 4 are needed.
I'm more interested how will they handle Mystic Gohan… In BoG he fought as Mystic just to turn SS at the ritual.
In the Frieza movie he is talkign about full power and just goes Super Saiyan...
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I''m curious as to how they'll handle the Super Saiyan God transformation in the anime. In BoG Goku needed the power of 5 Saiyans, the fifth being fetus Pan. BoG took place 6 years after the Buu saga, which lines up with how old Pan is in the epilogue to DBZ which takes place 10 years after the Buu saga.
Now Dragon Ball Super takes place 6 moths after the Buu saga, though. We do have Videl and Gohan married now, but I'm wondering if they've just forgotten about the timeline at this point and are just gonna have Pan be born earlier in the timeline. That or they could simply change the number of Saiyans required to four, or introduce Tarble.
Simple, Gohan and Videl did the thing out of wedlock and Pan fetus is already there.
Problem solved.
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Simple, Gohan and Videl did the thing out of wedlock and Pan fetus is already there.
Problem solved.
So how long Videl should be pregnant to fix the age of Videl at the end of Z?
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Now Dragon Ball Super takes place 6 moths after the Buu saga,
No it doesn't, and I really wish people would stop saying this. Here's how the timeline actually goes:
-Boo is defeated.
-Six months later, they erase everyone's memories with the Dragon Balls.
-An unspecified amount of time passes.
-Beerus wakes up.This was clearly laid out in episode 1. The show itself never claimed that Super is set six months after Boo, that was only ever claimed in a magazine preview before the show started.
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@Vegard:
No it doesn't, and I really wish people would stop saying this. Here's how the timeline actually goes:
-Boo is defeated.
-Six months later, they erase everyone's memories with the Dragon Balls.
-An unspecified amount of time passes.
-Beerus wakes up.This was clearly laid out in episode 1. The show itself never claimed that Super is set six months after Boo, that was only ever claimed in a magazine preview before the show started.
Really? If true OK… Still do not understand how Goten and Trunks look exactly the same in BoG after all
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Here's the info I got from the article via google translate. I've interpreted a some of the information the article a bit differently only because the translation wasn't the best. The stuff in bold is info I consider very enlightening:- There are 7 animation teams working on Dragon Ball Super. In comparison, Studio Pierrot has 11 animation teams working on Naruto.
- Naoki Tate's role in the episode 5 Super Dragon Ball was not to animate or draw scenes but to correct the drawings of other animators.
- Tôei Animation studio is known for having very few animators to work on an episode. In the 80s and 90s, they employed 4 or 5 more rarely. Usually these days, they do not exceed 10 animators unlike other studios.
- Episode 3 of Super Dragon Ball was animated by a single person, as was Episode 24 of Go! Princess Precure. In comparison, Episode 27 Go! Precure Princess had only three key animators. Which is still not a lot.
- Episode 5 of Super had over 18 key animators. With this many key animators, this means there was clearly a very tight schedule and the budget was a non factor. There was good animators in this episode, though. Examples include the Kamehameha that was launched by Goku Super Saiyan 3 which was drawn by Ken Ôtsuka.
- Because of lack of time and tight schedule, Naoki Tate had to make a choice of whether he should give priority to second half of the episode where there is more action, specifically where Goku was a Super Saiyan 3, and then abandon plans where Goku was in different scenes and not in action. The second half of the episode had almost no reproach unlike the first half. Naoki Tate had done just that 3/4 of his job for that episode, and he ultimate chose the easy way out, and provided more animators to scenes where there is less action to correct the most possible scenes.
- The animation in the strict sense, where the images were moving, was not so bad. What was ugly, however, was the lack of uniformity during the fighting scenes and in the background.
- It is also important to note, that the animation director must wait until the animators finish the drawing, as the animation director is the person who works last.
- The pace of production has changed since the day that Toei animation painted cels, as with the arrival of colorization using computers, delays in the process of animation were reduced.
- Many people like the anime producers, directors or designers and production assistants are paid during the manufacturing process, planning is very punctuated to limit the overall cost of production. However, the majority of employees in the animation are freelance, as he cost to internalize facilitators and animators would be too unbearable. The only studio that could afford to do such a thing is Studio Ghibli. But the problem is not the fact that the studios are stingy. Japanese animation studios are small companies which still struggling with the budget allocated by customers. They do not have rights. In general, they do not make big profits and are not in a position to invest their own profits in an original license.
- Japanese animation in budgets are extremely low. In the 60s, to be successful producing weekly episodes was seen a crazy idea but a necessary one. Osamu Tezuka asked the animators to make many sacrifices: work very hard to pay a pittance. The standard period is always the same 50 years later.
- On a series of television production, a animator is usually paid around ¥5,000 to animate a cut (from the layout to the animated key).
- The people responsible for in-between animation are paid around ¥250 per drawing. To live survive by this standard wage, the animation leaders must work fast and can not afford to work exclusively on a single animated cut. Many animators are therefore freelancers working for several studios simultaneously.
- The problem is still the same today, as Japan's animation industry produces too many projects at a rate of an indecent speed. There are not enough talented and experienced animators to oversee production and train new young animators. The studios have no alternative but to work with animators from a low level, sometimes even amateurs who do it as a hobby. They also have no choice but to outsource certain functions in other countries, not only to contain costs but also to deliver the episode in time. In this industry, everybody is all the time is extremely busy, but also especially talented. But even the most mediocre animators, however, are solicited to regular intervals.
- It is fairly common that nobody starts work on an episode until the very last moment because they are already struggling on their deadline on another production. In this situation, it is quite common to hear about "miracle" when an episode airing in time. Sometimes the animation for an episode can begin only two weeks before the broadcast and the episode is finalized a mere few hours before before it has to air TV. The quality may be rotten, but what counts most is to have something on the screen.
Credits to Kazenshuu.
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All I know is, after seeing Resurrection F, I am beyond hype for the Super Saga to start and Vegeta to finally be in equal footing as a main character as Goku.
Loved how Whis trashed both of them for solo queueing instead of partying up.
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Really? If true OK… Still do not understand how Goten and Trunks look exactly the same in BoG after all
Saiyans age funny and are prone to sudden growth spurts.
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Really? If true OK… Still do not understand how Goten and Trunks look exactly the same in BoG after all
Goku was the same height for 4+ years as a teenager. Don't question it.
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True that… Never will do it again
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What are the chances Vegeta turns SSJ3 on Episode 6 instead of getting the rage boost?