There being infinite amount of fan character recolours, it was only a matter of time.
!
! June 12, 2011But even that doesn't excuse its existence.
We Dragonball AF now?
Dragonball Discussion
-
-
The only reason why the Buu Saga exists is because of extreme pressure from SJ to continue DBZ and to bring back Goku. I'm not even really a fan of DBZ all that much, but considering just how many times Toriyama has had to revive and rewrite based on decisions that were not his own, I think that over all he did the best he could.
Robby already touched on this in his post above, but I wanted to share this In-depth guide that goes point by point and debunks all of the "Toriyama MEANT to end DB at this point" myths.
The real big thing is, Toriyama Has admitted to kinda writing by the seat of his pants and just kinda doing whatever he feels like or whatever comes to mind. This causes him to accidentally write himself into holes sometimes and has to do funky things to get himself back out of those holes. But the whole "The SJ Editors forced him to keep going" simply doesn't hold water.
Switch Friend Code: SW-1795-2519-1884 • Click Here to check out my Twitch Channel
-
Thanks for the info guys.
-
This post is deleted!
-
Only the fact that dragon ball was highly episodic, and each of the supposed ending points (Pilaf, Picollo Jr, Frezer, Cell and Buu) had something that allowed it to be done:
Pilaf: Dragon ball found, villian defeated, not much need to continue, this would be it if toriyama didn't publish Dr Slump first (acording to certain rumors)
Picolo Jr: Goku is a grown up, and finaly won the tournament, and defeated Picollo a second time, was offered the post of god of earth but turned it down, got married. It's every cliche in the book!
Frezer: Goku gets vengance for the saiyans and namekians, the most powerful (and active) overlord in the universe defeated, blah, this is the one that less makes sense, there was the fact that Goku wasn't on earth, but besides the scale of the archivement, there didn't seem to be much closure.
Cell: Goku is dead and choses not to go back to life, pases the responsability (heh) of protecting earth to Gohan and Vegeta (heh), peace and clousure all around.
Toriyama just didn't plant that much ahead. He did build up the Crane school, and both Picollos confrontations, and from Vegeta into Frezer, but that was mostly it.
-
It's been debunked and it proven false, but the fan theory about Toriyama wanting to quit it after Cell makes sense because of the feeling of accomplishment after that fight, like everything came to a close one way or another. Seriously, you only needed an epilogue and that's it.
Goku passing the torch onto Gohan, who became officially the strongest, Vegeta showing some fatherly love for Trunks, admitting he was weaker than both Gohan and Goku and stating he didn't wanna fight ever again, Krillin finding love, Dende as the new God with Piccolo acting as his guardian and mentor, Goku saying out loud "DON'T BRING ME BACK TO LIFE! I'M A SUPER VILLAIN MAGNET, REALLY, I MUST STAY DEAD FOR GOOD!", and future Trunks saving the future.
The Buu saga was better than the Cell one, it brought back magic and humor and disregarded the sci-fi and seriousness overload of past arcs, but it still totally ignored all those closure elements brought up before. Vegeta is as fight hungry as ever and trains every single day, Goku is brought back and he has to ultimately save the day (even when he, mid arc, ADMITS he could've killed Fat Buu but it's the current generation who should defend the planet, not him. . .yeah, right), Vegeta selfishly messes things up again, the new generation of Earth defenders don't defend the Earth properly, even when Gotenks and Gohan are both stronger than Goku and Vegeta, and after Gohan was supposed to pick up Goku's mantle as a hero. . .yeah.
It felt like too many things were undone in that arc and it's understandable people might've started running that rumor that none of that would be happening if it wasn't for SJ's pressure, cause it contradicted stuff stated by the characters themselves some time before. . . but I actually have no idea how the whole rumor even started in the first place, so I'm just talking for talk's sake.
Again, that doesn't take away from the fact that it's actually a pretty decent final DB saga, even if it's not my favorite by a landslide.
-
It's been debunked and it proven false, but the fan theory about Toriyama wanting to quit it after Cell makes sense because of the feeling of accomplishment after that fight, like everything came to a close one way or another. Seriously, you only needed an epilogue and that's it.
Yeah, but as Maxter noted, thats the case for a LOT of the material. After Piccollo and before Z especially.
Vegeta showing some fatherly love for Trunks, admitting he was weaker than both Gohan and Goku and stating he didn't wanna fight ever again
That was only cause Goku was dead.
But Vegeta knew they'd meet again someday, somehow, and wanted to kick his butt when that time came.
but I actually have no idea how the whole rumor even started in the first place, so I'm just talking for talk's sake.
"Because the android saga was badass serious business while the Buu saga was just dumb and full of stupid jokes!"
Says the part of the audience that never read the first half of the series or has any idea how to have fun, or that the Android saga was actually pretty terrible.
-
I actually hope there will be a movie focused on Gohan. He is one of my favorites and sadly it feels like he is an afterthought.
-
Says the part of the audience that never read the first half of the series or has any idea how to have fun, or that the Android saga was actually pretty terrible.
Given how many times Toonami cycled through DragonBall Z you can't blame them.
I actually hope there will be a movie focused on Gohan. He is one of my favorites and sadly it feels like he is an afterthought.
He went home and became a salary man:ninja:.
-
There being infinite amount of fan character recolours, it was only a matter of time.
! [qimg]http://i.imgur.com/jpO36CK.jpg[/qimg]
! June 12, 2011But even that doesn't excuse its existence.Ok. That got me to honestly laugh out loud.
To me, the only further form that I'd care to even see would be the super sand lesbian.
To those who don't understand the reference.
!
Also, just noticed. 300 pages, noice.
-
The Buu saga was better than the Cell one, it brought back magic and humor and disregarded the sci-fi and seriousness overload of past arcs, but it still totally ignored all those closure elements brought up before. Vegeta is as fight hungry as ever and trains every single day, Goku is brought back and he has to ultimately save the day (even when he, mid arc, ADMITS he could've killed Fat Buu but it's the current generation who should defend the planet, not him. . .yeah, right), Vegeta selfishly messes things up again, the new generation of Earth defenders don't defend the Earth properly, even when Gotenks and Gohan are both stronger than Goku and Vegeta, and after Gohan was supposed to pick up Goku's mantle as a hero. . .yeah.
Robby already covered the Vegeta thing, but about Goku being brought back. That came, ultimately, from Toriyama's slapdash writing style.
In an interview, at one point Toriyama says in kindof an offhand way that while writing the Boo arc, he decided that Gohan was "Unsuitable" as a main character and decided to switch back to Goku. He's KINDOF right considering Gohan wasn't really very Main Charactery up until then. Sure, he was pretty cool in the Cell arc, but it's obvious he was never really too keen on fighting and only did it out of necessity.
I honestly think Vegeta gets WAY better closure to his character arc in the Boo arc than he got in Cell.
Switch Friend Code: SW-1795-2519-1884 • Click Here to check out my Twitch Channel
-
Here's a really good interview with Toriyama's first editor at JUMP, Torishima Kazuhiko. Torishima was editor for Dr. Slump and Dragon Ball Chapters #-208-ish. Torishima explains what were his ideas and how Toriyama is his own sort of genius.
-
I mean, Frieza probably comes a place where 4 Earth Months = Couple of Years.
The Human calendar is based on our solar system, Frieza comes from soooooo far away and this would actually make sense.
You do realize time doesn't go faster or slower in other planets, right? The length of days and years depends on the time it takes for a planet to orbit its own axis or its host star. This isn't the Hyperbolic Time Chamber where it time goes faster compared to the real world.
-
You do realize time doesn't go faster or slower in other planets, right? The length of days and years depends on the time it takes for a planet to orbit its own axis or its host star. This isn't the Hyperbolic Time Chamber where it time goes faster compared to the real world.
I don't think LordPerucho necessarily meant that Freeza would be somewhere in space where time runs differently, moreso that wherever Freeza is from out in space could calculate time differently. Same rationality is what caused the Namekian Dragonballs to re-activate after granting a wish in a much shorter time than the Earth ones. Simply, the Namekian calendar has what they consider to be a "Year" being a considerably shorter time than Earth's calendar does.
I think the point was that Freeza may come from a place where the Calendar has one "Month" be 280 days for example.
Switch Friend Code: SW-1795-2519-1884 • Click Here to check out my Twitch Channel
-
I don't think LordPerucho necessarily meant that Freeza would be somewhere in space where time runs differently, moreso that wherever Freeza is from out in space could calculate time differently. Same rationality is what caused the Namekian Dragonballs to re-activate after granting a wish in a much shorter time than the Earth ones. Simply, the Namekian calendar has what they consider to be a "Year" being a considerably shorter time than Earth's calendar does.
I think the point was that Freeza may come from a place where the Calendar has one "Month" be 280 days for example.
The Dragon Balls are magical items with set rules.
Kinda different. Again, just because his years are shorter, doesn't mean time goes faster on his planet.
-
has anyone here played that Xenoverse game yet? The last DBZ game I played was Budokai 3 way back in the PS2 days lol. I think now is a good time as any to try a new one out.
-
You do realize time doesn't go faster or slower in other planets, right? The length of days and years depends on the time it takes for a planet to orbit its own axis or its host star. This isn't the Hyperbolic Time Chamber where it time goes faster compared to the real world.
Not saying the actual time is different.
Saying the measurement of it is different, based on the planet's cycle.
So the joke is, when Frieza says he is going to train for 4 months he actually means for 5 years on our calender.
Similar to his 5 minutes till Namek explodes being something more like 3 hours.
-
The Dragon Balls are magical items with set rules.
Kinda different. Again, just because his years are shorter, doesn't mean time goes faster on his planet.
What? nobody is saying time goes faster on his planet. I'm not even making the argument that LordPerucho is correct about his theory, I'm just saying that his theory WOULD make sense.
Just to be clear, the Theory isn't "Time Goes Faster/slower on Freeza's planet" It's "Freeza's planet is an entirely different planet than earth and therefore isn't bound to the same calendar earth is."
For example, our calendar has 365 Days, seperated into 12 months with month length ranging from as short as 28 days to as long as 31 days.
The ancient Romans had a 304 Day calendar seperated into 10 months with a 30-31 day month length
To a person operating on the Roman calendar, our 28 day February would seem shorter and would feel like it goes by faster than they are used to.
Freeza however, is from OUTER SPACE. Being from outer space, Freeza's calendar is, in absolutely no way, required to have 28-31 day months. What Freeza calls a "Month" could easily be hundreds of days for example.
THAT is what LordPerucho is saying. Not that Freeza being in space makes time go slower, but that Freeza being in space means what he is calling a "Month" CAN be longer than what we on earth consider a "Month".
Switch Friend Code: SW-1795-2519-1884 • Click Here to check out my Twitch Channel
-
So if the time stays the same, this theory is pretty pointless.
Freeza might as well just said it according to our calendar.
-
Switch Friend Code: SW-1795-2519-1884 • Click Here to check out my Twitch Channel
-
There's a reason Freeza doesn't specify, it's because Toriyama means in our normal calendar.
-
Plot twist: 4 months in Frieza time are actually such a long time that the universe ended and restarted (in the very same way - like in that Futurama episode). Therefore, 4 months Frieza time = 4 months earth time + 1 duration of the universe. That would perfectly explain that huge power increase.
Forum user Bartholemew Bear passed away in a very moving and touching way. I, ARTEMlS, therefore carry on the Will of DArth for good unto its final fulfilment.
-
@Bartholemew:
Plot twist: 4 months in Frieza time are actually such a long time that the universe ended and restarted (in the very same way - like in that Futurama episode). Therefore, 4 months Frieza time = 4 months earth time + 1 duration of the universe. That would perfectly explain that huge power increase.
Basically, it's Frieza's New Game +.
-
Basically, it's Frieza's New Game +.
Freezer went through time to train and get stronger than Goku…
...but the future refused to change.
-
has anyone here played that Xenoverse game yet? The last DBZ game I played was Budokai 3 way back in the PS2 days lol. I think now is a good time as any to try a new one out.
It's a lot of fun aside from the inane RNG.
-
On an unrelated note, did Toriyama ever draw Caterpy's ultimate form?
Don't know why I remembered him now.
-
-
My memory played with me then.
-
Bulma: Hey, Bulma here!
Just 43 days left until the premiere!
Today Kame-sennin has stopped by!Kame-sennin: Hello! Hey all you gals reading this blog, how about letting me fondle your boobs? You know, just for a little bit?
Bulma: Are you kidding me!?
Kame-sennin: Oh, Bulma! You’ve gotten even sexier since I last saw you.
(rustle, rustle)
Bulma: Hands off my butt!
（Bo—ong!）
Kame-sennin: Owwy-ow-ow…Is that any way to treat a grand sage?!
Bulma: Put a sock in it, you dirty old hermit! Look, just tell them about the upcoming movie!
Kame-sennin: Geez, you never change…scary as an…ahem!
Well anyway, seems this time around that Freeza guy has come back to life and is heading for Earth. Of course, you’d think he couldn’t put up much of a fight against Goku or Vegeta, not the way they are now, but apparently he’s achieved some massive power-up. Even worse, he’s bringing 1,000 soldiers with him, so even Goku and the others might have a tough time handling it all on their own…Maybe it’s finally time for me to throw my hat in the ring again!Bulma: Wha!? Don’t tell me you plan on fighting!?
Kame-sennin: Hey, you better respect your elders. I’m still a long way from retirement! Just check out these moves! Hah! Yah! (CRACK)
Bulma: …!!!
Kame-sennin: …Oh, how I miss the days when people called me the “invincible Muten Roshi”…Anyway, still 43 days left. Maybe I should go get some acupuncture in the meantime. Owwy-ow-ow…
LOL Roshi never changes.
Cool, a new DB Manga drawn by Toriyama.
"IF YOU’RE A MAN YOU DON’T CRY ABOUT IT. YOU TAKE LIFE THE UPS AND DOWNS. IF YOU’RE A REAL MAN YA NEVER GO DOWN YA JUST STAY UP"
- RIC FLAIR
-
Golden Frieza…
-
LOL Roshi never changes.
http://www.shonengamez.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/yd7uzio.jpg
Cool, a new DB Manga drawn by Toriyama.
Excellent decision of ignoring the Momoiro Clover stuff.
Always the same "i'm 22 but my manager says i must act like a child so i'm gonna pretend my grandfather was into Dragonball lolol"The special Toriyama manga going to the first "15 million viewers" is obviously a mistranslation, though. Must be 1.5 million.
And who would be "the strongest God"? -
Excellent decision of ignoring the Momoiro Clover stuff.
Always the same "i'm 22 but my manager says i must act like a child so i'm gonna pretend my grandfather was into Dragonball lolol"Damn their grandparents must've been old as hell when they were reading Dragonball.
-
Cool, a new DB Manga drawn by Toriyama.
Sorry, but no. I make it a rule never to trust a translation like this unless I can see the Japanese text to verify it for myself. While I won't have issue 2015 #15 of Weekly Jump until tomorrow, this already makes it abundantly clear that there is no actual manga being advertised.
-
I KNOW SOMEONE STRONGER THAN GOLDEN FRIEZA…..
THE GOLDEN GIRLS!
-
Or even a mere Golden Shower
-
^ We call that the R.Kelly special nowadays.
-
Show me your beautiful face…I'm gonna piss on it. xD This is the remix edition, of a song about pissin.
-
I wonder what kind of training Roshi did that can push away Raditz level of soldiers with a kamehameha.
Back in Namek Frieza soldiers were around Raditz level.
"IF YOU’RE A MAN YOU DON’T CRY ABOUT IT. YOU TAKE LIFE THE UPS AND DOWNS. IF YOU’RE A REAL MAN YA NEVER GO DOWN YA JUST STAY UP"
- RIC FLAIR
-
I wonder what kind of training Roshi did that can push away Raditz level of soldiers with a kamehameha.
Back in Namek Frieza soldiers were around Raditz level.
Soldiers in Namek probably weren't basic foot soldiers. They were part of Freeza's guard, in Freeza's ship. Basic soldiers from the outskirts of whatever remains of Freeza's empire are probably much less powerful than Raditz, maybe 100 in power level or something like that.
-
Dont think so, they were laughing at the supressed PL of those 3 unknown Namekians(which was around 1000).
A new blow is up.
18 confirmed a Tsundere.
Bulma: Hey, Bulma here!
39 days to go until the premiere!!
Today No.18’s swung by.No.18: So, why am I here exactly?
Bulma: Come to think of it, do you even know about Freeza, 18? He’s the one who destroyed Planet Vegeta way back when, and later he attacked Namek, and even gave Son-kun and Vegeta a tough fight. In fact, he killed Kuririn! He’s pretty much everyone’s archenemy.
No.18: He killed Kuririn?!
I’ll make him pay for that…
Anyway, I may not know much about Freeza, but I’ll definitely go fight too. Since I’m stronger than the others.Bulma: Huh? I really don’t think Kuririn would be OK with that. What with Marron and all…
No.18: You think he’d mind? But then, Kuririn’s grown out his hair now, and he’s even got a job as a police officer. He’s pretty much become a regular Joe.
Should I be worried?…Bulma: Ugh…well, anyway…(Geez, she may be the tsun-dere to end all tsun-dere)
Th-There’s just 39 days left until the premiere of this film! This film which may, or may not, feature a tender scene between 18 and Kuririn!"IF YOU’RE A MAN YOU DON’T CRY ABOUT IT. YOU TAKE LIFE THE UPS AND DOWNS. IF YOU’RE A REAL MAN YA NEVER GO DOWN YA JUST STAY UP"
- RIC FLAIR
-
Dont think so, they were laughing at the supressed PL of those 3 unknown Namekians(which was around 1000).
A new blow is up.
18 confirmed a Tsundere.
As if that wasn't obvious already.
-
Th-There’s just 39 days left until the premiere of this film! This film which may, or may not, feature a tender scene between 18 and Kuririn!
Whelp, Krillins gonna blow up again to piss everyone off.
-
Whelp, Krillins gonna blow up again to piss everyone off.
Time to que up the "Krillin Owned" count.
-
Time to que up the "Krillin Owned" count.
So long as hanging tough and not getting "Yamcha/Chaotzu" owned it's okay.
-
Whelp, Krillins gonna blow up again to piss everyone off.
Its gonna be 18 getting a nakama powerup, that explains why she said she is stronger than the others, unless she meant for others the Humans and maybe Goten/Trunks(individually) because both SSJ Goten and Trunks could beat her imo.
-
Dont think so, they were laughing at the supressed PL of those 3 unknown Namekians(which was around 1000).
Yes, because they were significantly stronger than that. But those were soldiers stationed with Freeza, at Freeza's ship, at the height of the Freeza's empire. They actually had an important rank and station.
Many soldiers in this new movie probably are soldiers of much less rank and station and, thus, much weaker.
-
18 confirmed a Tsundere.
Bulma knows what's up, she married one.
….you'd better not pull a Super 17 on us, movie. I want my battle couple. (Chichi and Bulma are out, and given this takes place after Battle of Gods, so is Videl)
EDIT: Oh snap, that's right, 18 had no idea Freeza killed her husband before.
-
Bulma knows what's up, she married one.
….you'd better not pull a Super 17 on us, movie. I want my battle couple. (Chichi and Bulma are out, and given this takes place after Battle of Gods, so is Videl)
EDIT: Oh snap, that's right, 18 had no idea Freeza killed her husband before.
They are not gonna pull a Super 17.
18's only main change in the final episodes of DBZ was haircut and clothes
Plus I am sure Toriyama won't do something that contradicts the final moments that have 18.
-
@DIO:
They are not gonna pull a Super 17.
18's only main change in the final episodes of DBZ was haircut and clothes
Plus I am sure Toriyama won't do something that contradicts the final moments that have 18.
Final moments? In terms of what? She doesn't die (barring Buu eating her and everyone at the Lookout), she looks on with the others when Goku leaves with Uub / Shernon in GT*, and she has brief scuffles in the Tarble OVA and Battle of Gods.
What would be contradicted?
