General Zelda thread
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lol i literally just posed that in the Nintendo thread. Galaxy stop reading my mind XD
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so someone like me who'll never play the original, or emulate still enjoy this game?
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so someone like me who'll never play the original, or emulate still enjoy this game?
I'm playing through it and really loving it, so yea, I'd definitely recommend picking it up if you're interested.
You'd probably not have many of the problems others are having too since you have no point of reference for how things are "Supposed" to be, so most of the stuff upsetting others probably won't bother you at all.
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But what's upsetting to folks like me is exactly that others have no point of reference and get a worse game experience because of it.
You'll probably enjoy the remake, but it is the inferior product for the reasons I gave to Fedcom.
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so someone like me who'll never play the original, or emulate still enjoy this game?
I'd suggest the Virtual Console release, if you have a Wii or Wii U.
If not… go for the "remake". You'll enjoy it.
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Hmm it seems ok then.
I'll never never play the original so I'm sure it'll be ok if I play this one.
I understand though not likeing remakes compared to the originals.
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Hmm it seems ok then.
I'll never never play the original so I'm sure it'll be ok if I play this one.
I understand though not likeing remakes compared to the originals.
It is, trust me, it's a really good game.
In a few ways the experience is changed in the remake, and certain things do kinda frustrate me about the game (The Bomber Notebook notifications being a HUGE one) but all in all, I have a more moderate approach to it, and I can say the experience feels good.
It's a really solid remake of one of the greatest games ever.
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I'm replaying the N64 version now. So you can…
! kill Sakon by using arrows.
Knowing this did anyone of you…! shot an arrow at the bomb bag when the granny still has it?
If yes, you really are a terrible person.Edit: Well, it's inappropriate to call someone here a terrible person so easily, right? Right? Right?!
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100%'d last night.
! The Good:
-visuals
-skippable/shortened cutscenes second time and on
-mask swapping from menu even if you're wearing one already
-nice minimap on bottom screen all the time
-Gyorg/Twinmold fight. Definitely tweaked to be more like recent hand-holding, phase-based, joke-easy Zelda bosses, but honestly more fun. Got some real SOTC #13 vibes from blue twinmold. If only Epona were allowed in there…
-Hints from Bombers about non-essential sidequests
-Shortened Elegy of Emptiness statue spawning time. Makes a real difference. But why are the statues wood and not stone!?
-actual use for Circus Leader's Mask
-additional flavor text here and there
-Banker location
-awesome final credits music
-Neat worn n' torn look of boss remains.
-Bottle from swamp tour minigame after Woodfall. Beaver racing doesn't have to be done first for only one required trip into Pirate's Fortress.
-Connection between hookshot room and beehive-shooting room in Pirate's Fortress. This is good streamlining.
-Tall grass in Termina field is partially see-through.
! The Bad:
-Deku movement change (no insta-momentum)
-Goron control change (also, lack of n64/gc controller notches around stick made the goron moon dungeon way harder than it had to be)
-Zora control/movement change (completely unnecessary and terrible)
-Zora moon dungeon change
-Bomber's notebook popup saying I got a heart piece before I even got a heart piece. Completely breaks the flow.
-Goht fight. Just awful. Dive bombs are HARDER to pull off than normal hits, so why are we punished by having the eye not punchable/slashable?
-Ice arrow prompts. Prohibits quicker strategies in a few rooms. Water spots are bad enough, but the Octoroks too…!?
-flavor text that flat out tells you what to do/where to go/when to go there
-Talking to new owl statues instead of whacking them. I dun like it.
-Appearance of sun switches/blocks. The face was part of the charm.
-Notebook from HMS. Skipping second Bomber chase is fine, but it forces the hand-holding. Completely unavoidable.
-Default controls for aiming/swimming are not y-axis inverted. And options menu is hidden in "Gear"
! The I Don't Care:
-Fishing ponds
-Random switch now needed to get small key in smaller of STT's two water rooms.
-changes in room with 3 Freezards and roll ramp in Snowhead
-change to tiny invisible platforms leading to Stray Fairy in Snowhead
-Odolwa fight. Still over before I knew it.
-staggered timing of dual platforms in GBT room with the freezable waterwheel. Just odd.
-Path to Great Bay Great Fairy changed
-Save points (never used, so I Don't Care for me, but yeah- completely different game for new players)
-Double Song of Time change. see above.
-Circus Leader-> Troupe Leader (???)
-Alarm system in notebook
-Shiro/Stone Mask location
-Amounts of items required Beneath the Well. Still have to buy the milk and magic bean, either way.
-Heart piece from 3rd night grave. Would be a "Bad," but 1) several heart pieces take just as much time/effort, 2) who needs all those bottles anyway.
-RBGY->Heart Diamond Spade Club in Ocean Spider House. Just…why?
-Skull Kid doesn't flee when spotted via telescope.
-Reverse Song of Time giving less time. NBD for normal plays; fucks over speedrunners (is beating game in a single post-Deku 3-day run possible anymore?) -
Alright so I finally got my game in time for the new year/other stuff, so time to join on the hate bandwagon
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@CCC:
100%'d last night.
! The Good:
-visuals
-skippable/shortened cutscenes second time and on
-mask swapping from menu even if you're wearing one already
-nice minimap on bottom screen all the time
-Gyorg/Twinmold fight. Definitely tweaked to be more like recent hand-holding, phase-based, joke-easy Zelda bosses, but honestly more fun. Got some real SOTC #13 vibes from blue twinmold. If only Epona were allowed in there…
-Hints from Bombers about non-essential sidequests
-Shortened Elegy of Emptiness statue spawning time. Makes a real difference. But why are the statues wood and not stone!?
-actual use for Circus Leader's Mask
-additional flavor text here and there
-Banker location
-awesome final credits music
-Neat worn n' torn look of boss remains.
-Bottle from swamp tour minigame after Woodfall. Beaver racing doesn't have to be done first for only one required trip into Pirate's Fortress.
-Connection between hookshot room and beehive-shooting room in Pirate's Fortress. This is good streamlining.
-Tall grass in Termina field is partially see-through.
! The Bad:
-Deku movement change (no insta-momentum)
-Goron control change (also, lack of n64/gc controller notches around stick made the goron moon dungeon way harder than it had to be)
-Zora control/movement change (completely unnecessary and terrible)
-Zora moon dungeon change
-Bomber's notebook popup saying I got a heart piece before I even got a heart piece. Completely breaks the flow.
-Goht fight. Just awful. Dive bombs are HARDER to pull off than normal hits, so why are we punished by having the eye not punchable/slashable?
-Ice arrow prompts. Prohibits quicker strategies in a few rooms. Water spots are bad enough, but the Octoroks too…!?
-flavor text that flat out tells you what to do/where to go/when to go there
-Talking to new owl statues instead of whacking them. I dun like it.
-Appearance of sun switches/blocks. The face was part of the charm.
-Notebook from HMS. Skipping second Bomber chase is fine, but it forces the hand-holding. Completely unavoidable.
-Default controls for aiming/swimming are not y-axis inverted. And options menu is hidden in "Gear"
! The I Don't Care:
-Fishing ponds
-Random switch now needed to get small key in smaller of STT's two water rooms.
-changes in room with 3 Freezards and roll ramp in Snowhead
-change to tiny invisible platforms leading to Stray Fairy in Snowhead
-Odolwa fight. Still over before I knew it.
-staggered timing of dual platforms in GBT room with the freezable waterwheel. Just odd.
-Path to Great Bay Great Fairy changed
-Save points (never used, so I Don't Care for me, but yeah- completely different game for new players)
-Double Song of Time change. see above.
-Circus Leader-> Troupe Leader (???)
-Alarm system in notebook
-Shiro/Stone Mask location
-Amounts of items required Beneath the Well. Still have to buy the milk and magic bean, either way.
-Heart piece from 3rd night grave. Would be a "Bad," but 1) several heart pieces take just as much time/effort, 2) who needs all those bottles anyway.
-RBGY->Heart Diamond Spade Club in Ocean Spider House. Just…why?
-Skull Kid doesn't flee when spotted via telescope.I also 100%ed last night (yay shiny medal of completion next to the event list in my notebook!). I like your list a lot, in terms of what personally affects me (how I feel in principle about the changes and how they will affect new players, however, is different but I've beaten that one to death already). By the way, you do NOT need to buy milk for the well. I think you meant red potion (changed from blue potion originally).
Here's a few more of my own, just off the top of my head, though after your list most are minor:
! Good:
-Great Bay fisherman game now starts you back on top of the platforms if you fall (which happened to me due to the camera and sensitive controls with the Bunny Hood equipped).
-Using pictograph box as the free camera view was a good streamline
-New Song of Soaring Termina map is pretty cool
! Bad:
-Removed a lot of snarky Tatl flavor text, especially in reference to OoT enemies
-This MIGHT just be me, but Skull Keeta was a complete joke to catch and defeat (I stopped him inches beyond the first flame wall)
-Visual effect when Song of Healing is played sucks now (pink and full of hearts)
-New Garo Mask design is meh
-The new dungeon map design is too unintuitive to navigate; lacks the basic usefulness I look for in dungeon maps
-I despised the second-phase fights against both Gyorg and Twinmold; red Twinmold especially, holy fuck I hate that fight and giant Link feels clunky (which I'm sure was intended but I don't like it)
-Fairy Mask shimmering is harder to notice (weaker particle effects)
! Don't care:
-Slowed-down time is not as slow as in the N64 version. Led to some intense moments the way I loaded my cycles.
-Must be in Goron form to get the inn key AND it must be your first time talking to Anju
-Minigames rewarding me with fishing vouchers instead of rupees -
! Good:
-New Song of Soaring Termina map is pretty cool
! -This MIGHT just be me, but Skull Keeta was a complete joke to catch and defeat (I stopped him inches beyond the first flame wall)! I only wish…the map reflected the saving of each region. No more snow/poison water/...but for the other two I guess :P
! And I also beat Keeta right after the first wall, but I just attributed that to gitting gud...? Maybe not though? -
Before I even get this game I need Oracina of time.
I looked into the Zelda timeline and it's almost a must.
That will be my first Zelda game.
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@Bartholemew:
I'm replaying the N64 version now. So you can…
! kill Sakon by using arrows.
Knowing this did anyone of you…! shot an arrow at the bomb bag when the granny still has it?
If yes, you really are a terrible person.Edit: Well, it's inappropriate to call someone here a terrible person so easily, right? Right? Right?!
Yes I did, and it was worth it. Because in this game you have to try all the possibilities each event offers.
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Just had a really fun Zelda Moment at work.
I had my Majora's Mask Collectors Edition Guide on me to peruse during work, and a coworker saw it. It's colored like it's made of leather and it's got gilded pages, so said Coworker was like "You look like you'd be one of those door to door religion people".
I didn't miss a beat and went "Hello sir, do you have a moment to talk about the Goddess Hylia?"
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Awesome easter egg:
[hide]
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Nitpick, that's not an easter egg.
It is cool though.
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Caved.
Bought Majora's Mask without ever playing Ocarina of Time. :(
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Caved.
Bought Majora's Mask without ever playing Ocarina of Time. :(
The hints that it's a sequel are really small anyways, it works just fine on its own
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It's still awesome to have the comparison to Ocarina of Time though, especially with the character parallels.
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…Except for the letdown when all those interesting, motivated characters from MM turn into soulless shells in OoT.
But OoT'll still be good for other reasons ;)
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OoT will also seem super easy by comparison.
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Ocarina of Time as a title will also make less sense than naming Majora's Mask "Ocarina of Time"
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Finished it for the first time:
- Stone Tower Temple is my new favorite dungeon (previously it was Forest Temple in oot for the ost alone)
- The moon insides blew me away
- Failing the sun mask quest i think will hurt me forever just by thinking about the situation Kafei was in
- Super weird in general but so fascinating
- The Twinmold kid inside the moon asking for "More." masks many times was so creepy and so awesome
- I already knew about Fierce Deity because its impossible to avoid but still epic
- Romani lobotomized also will hurt me forever
- i think that having the clock displaying time in a more "simple" way compared to the n64 takes away some tension, but adds so much more in the last 6 hours when the clock is different
- The conclusion of the Anju & Kafei will be forever remembered
- Don't know what the huge deal was about the eyeballs, they are stupid and unnecessary but at least adds a little variety to an otherwise giant hurtbox
- Cremia is the cutest
- Sakon is in the top 10 characters i hate the most
- I really hope that by re releasing Majora Nintendo will remember how to make a Zelda so unique and memorable
- Time traveling to whatever hour you need is cheap but there is so much to do in general that i didn't even abuse it, just in 3-4 instances when i was just tired
- I really hope that the concept of stray faries will return in other formats (like to do sidequests while also doing the dungeons)
- Best Mirror Shield in the series
- i don't know how the bombers notebook was in the original, but here is nice when they don't remind you of everything possible
- There should have been a Cucco mask to become one of them
Probably most of these things have already been said for over a decade, but i really hope that lots of people will play majora (without abusing the saves possibly, the double time is ok if you don't have anything else to do though).
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Finished it for the first time:
- There should have been a Cucco mask to become one of them
Are you mad? That much power is too much for us mere mortals to wield.
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Here is Game Informer's interview with Aonuma.
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Alright so I just 100%'d MM3D besides the fishing holes, so that means that the game is basically now a 24/7 fishing simulator from now on
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
- Don't know what the huge deal was about the eyeballs, they are stupid and unnecessary but at least adds a little variety to an otherwise giant hurtbox
From my experience, it really didn't add anything to any of the fights other than just another giant hurtbox that is actually now completely stationary rather than moving around.
- For Odolwa, it just means you're whacking him while he's lying down rather than only when he's standing up or kneeling
- Essentially the same thing for Goht, but with Goht it also means forcing you out of Goron form to accomplish the same thing.
- For Gyorg and Twinmold, the eyeballs again just add another period of time to whack at an obvious yet unnecessary weakpoint, and what adds the variety to these fights is the complete overhaul.
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Especially with Gyorg, who I thought was a lot more fun to fight in this version with the changes they made. Overall I don't think the changes were that big of a deal, and this is coming from someone who's favorite game in the Zelda series is Majora's Mask. I absolutely loved going through Termina again and helping all the people while doing so. It was a great feeling to know I had filled the entire Bomber's Notebook upon completing the game, now I kinda wanna go do it again lol.
Now I just need to get back to playing Skyward Sword already; I love what I've played so far, especially the story of the humble monster.
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Now I just need to get back to playing Skyward Sword already; I love what I've played so far, especially the story of the humble monster.
That game is taboo here, don't mention it :ninja:
But seriously i like the game but if that humble monster is what i think you refer to then you'll soon grow to hate it like the rest of us
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Yeah almost every Zelda fan I know has told me they hated it, which is honestly why it's taken me so long to get around to it. But so far the only problems I've had have been with the motion controls, so we'll see how I feel when I make it further than the Lanayru Mining Facility.
And this is the monster I was talking about:
!
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I originally wrote up this lengthy write up, but then I scrapped it because I was never satisfied with it. But basically I think while each individual change doesn't harm the experience by itself, each of them together kinda is representative of their design philosophy going into it, which is actually an alright design philosophy. "Figure out what makes no sense and try to fix it." But the execution of the idea is more of a "What in the World…?" moment than any of the "problems" they tried to fix.
While most things are just minor annoyances that end up piling up, the changes to the controls of pretty much everyone are definitely the one that stand out the most as incredibly frustrating. One of the devs said she never finished it even in the 3DS version but at least she felt satisfied with the controls and that it was her own inability to complete the game, but I actually felt like the 3DS has, as a result of the changes, a much less fluid setup that hampers the experience, and for the life of me I can't figure out how those compromises for "fixing problems" equated to changing things this way or another.
And that is pretty much how I feel about a lot of these changes. Not only were they at most minor nuisances in the N64 version, it also just comes into question as to why they made these changes if they didn't really fix the problems, or if there was even a problem they were trying to fix.
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Yeah almost every Zelda fan I know has told me they hated it, which is honestly why it's taken me so long to get around to it. But so far the only problems I've had have been with the motion controls, so we'll see how I feel when I make it further than the Lanayru Mining Facility.
And this is the monster I was talking about:
Oh. I actually completely forgot about him. I was thinking of the imprisoned and just thought you were being odd in your wording. I hate that thing. It is a true monster
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@Purple:
One of the devs said she never finished it even in the 3DS version but at least she felt satisfied with the controls and that it was her own inability to complete the game, but I actually felt like the 3DS has, as a result of the changes, a much less fluid setup that hampers the experience, and for the life of me I can't figure out how those compromises for "fixing problems" equated to changing things this way or another.
And that is pretty much how I feel about a lot of these changes. Not only were they at most minor nuisances in the N64 version, it also just comes into question as to why they made these changes if they didn't really fix the problems, or if there was even a problem they were trying to fix.
Hidden for longish rant :P
! Agreed. Or as I phrased it before, "The people in charge of these decisions don't seem to have been fans of the original game."
Or at the very least they were god-awful at it (look at Aonuma's videos…) and set out to fix problems that didn't exist for what I imagine is the majority of players who did enjoy the game. But I guess that's the crux of it? They weren't looking to capitalize on players who enjoyed the game in 2000 and who were guaranteed to buy the remake out of nostalgia/love/whatever. The target audience is the average 3DS owner, which is probably someone in the 12-15 range whose Zelda experience began with OoT 3D or...Skyward Sword, heaven forbid. Someone who wouldn't necessarily be aware that these were changes in the first place, making the changes less striking and bizarre to them.
! Best example, imo, are the Zora controls. The game was built for unlimited speedy speedy zoomy Zora swimming. How so?
-Expansive, boring, mostly empty Great Bay area. You wanna cross that shit quickly to get to the next relevant spot. Getting impatient? Use magic to get to sea snakes faster->lack magic to kill all sea snakes. …Aqua guitar change at least lets you escape quickly though ;)
-Underwater wooden panels that require bashing. Can be done without magic, but it's obtuse since you never use the mechanic anywhere else.
-Long, twisting Beaver Race course with a time limit. They had to compensate for the control changes by adding magic pots along the way, turning it into a different sort of minigame. Much clunkier. New controls are also terrible in the event that you miss a ring and have to course correct.
-Large, dynamic water rooms in Great Bay Temple. Speeding through them (or fighting against that current while moving up/down through the main room) was so much of the original charm.
-Room in Stone Tower Temple that rewards good use of Zora movement (allowing you to reach small key ledge without the grabby hand or to reach the other ledge on the return trip with the light arrows without going through the awful 4-elegy-switch room again). They actually modified the small key ledge to be ordinarily climbable because…not only is asking the player to Zora-leap to it out of the question, but the grabby hand method was too hard!?
-Zora Moon dungeon. Original wasn't great. I'll concede that. You could be fucked out of the heart piece if you accidentally found the exit first. But making it so every ledge has to be leaped (lest you start over) with magic just seems like a bad confluence of changes.
! vs.
! -I bumped into a wall I didn't mean to three times throughout the original with speedy Zora controls. -
@CCC:
Hidden for longish rant :P
! Agreed. Or as I phrased it before, "The people in charge of these decisions don't seem to have been fans of the original game."
Or at the very least they were god-awful at it (look at Aonuma's videos…) and set out to fix problems that didn't exist for what I imagine is the majority of players who did enjoy the game. But I guess that's the crux of it? They weren't looking to capitalize on players who enjoyed the game in 2000 and who were guaranteed to buy the remake out of nostalgia/love/whatever. The target audience is the average 3DS owner, which is probably someone in the 12-15 range whose Zelda experience began with OoT 3D or...Skyward Sword, heaven forbid. Someone who wouldn't necessarily be aware that these were changes in the first place, making the changes less striking and bizarre to them.
! Best example, imo, are the Zora controls. The game was built for unlimited speedy speedy zoomy Zora swimming. How so?
-Expansive, boring, mostly empty Great Bay area. You wanna cross that shit quickly to get to the next relevant spot. Getting impatient? Use magic to get to sea snakes faster->lack magic to kill all sea snakes. …Aqua guitar change at least lets you escape quickly though ;)
-Underwater wooden panels that require bashing. Can be done without magic, but it's obtuse since you never use the mechanic anywhere else.
-Long, twisting Beaver Race course with a time limit. They had to compensate for the control changes by adding magic pots along the way, turning it into a different sort of minigame. Much clunkier. New controls are also terrible in the event that you miss a ring and have to course correct.
-Large, dynamic water rooms in Great Bay Temple. Speeding through them (or fighting against that current while moving up/down through the main room) was so much of the original charm.
-Room in Stone Tower Temple that rewards good use of Zora movement (allowing you to reach small key ledge without the grabby hand or to reach the other ledge on the return trip with the light arrows without going through the awful 4-elegy-switch room again). They actually modified the small key ledge to be ordinarily climbable because…not only is asking the player to Zora-leap to it out of the question, but the grabby hand method was too hard!?
-Zora Moon dungeon. Original wasn't great. I'll concede that. You could be fucked out of the heart piece if you accidentally found the exit first. But making it so every ledge has to be leaped (lest you start over) with magic just seems like a bad confluence of changes.
! vs.
! -I bumped into a wall I didn't mean to three times throughout the original with speedy Zora controls.Yeah. I mean in the end I get that they got a team whose purpose was to basically "fix" anything that was frustrating to those who didn't complete the original and to ease the transition in for new players, but I feel like the changes they made ended up producing more issues than anything else. Like I feel if they set out to make things "less frustrating" for new players, they actually ended up making more possibilities for the player to say "wow, these controls suck." So fairly good design philosophy but questionable execution.
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Yeah, tons of the changes are just really at odds with how the game was made. Like with the boss eyeballs, where for the two fights that remained structurally the same, they offered nothing but a redundant hitbox. Or how change in the goron controls makes the narrow jumps really weird to handle (I never fell off, myself, but I had a few close calls thanks to requiring an additional action to stop). Even the Bomber's Notebook suffers in a similar way, since now it oftentimes lets a player know about a thing that the game is already letting them know about (acquiring items, especially).
I think the funniest case of a change conflicting with the original design sense is the Garo Mark. I get why they changed it, since the new one is technically the leader's mask instead of just a grunt's, but it looks really weird on the Gormon Brothers. Before it made intuitive sense that the rancher bros would be wearing sacks over their heads to intimidate you and hide their identities, but now they have these ornate purple and gold burial masks that they really have no business wearing.
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I actually have a friend who never played the original at all, so she has no point of reference for how the controls are "Supposed" to feel for any of this.
I think it'd be a good social experiment to have her give her blind impressions of the controls for the various transformations when she gets there. I wonder if a lot of the problem is just people who are very used to the old controls and therefore very aware that they are different.
I don't necessarily like the Zora controls, but I think they're easily more manageable and better than they're made out to be. I mean, I've seen Wags and Foolio on a few occasions say that swimming without shielding as Zora Link is "As slow as Hylian Link" when in fact, Zora Link is easily twice as fast even without Shielding.
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I haven't experienced the new Zora controls yet, so I'll wait to judge on that (up to Snowhead atm).
As for Goron, is it me or is it slightly slower at top speed?
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I haven't experienced the new Zora controls yet, so I'll wait to judge on that (up to Snowhead atm).
As for Goron, is it me or is it slightly slower at top speed?
I don't THINK so, but to be honest I haven't tested it yet. The Goron controls are easily the least changed overall tho. I really feel basically no difference other than the change from Holding the button to Toggling. There was a learning curve on that one lol, and I missed a few jumps because of it but once I got used to it, it feels basically no different.
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So I got my hands on the game (and am happy for some snow days to get to play it), and for the things I can tell changed, I'm happy. I still have my N64 and have made some attempts to get it out and play MM in previous years, but I could never really get the hang of it. I couldn't remember where things were or which way I needed to go, and I had an awful time of navigating around even when in the field. It was a big put-off so I never got much farther than the end of the first temple. Admittedly I'm spotty when it comes to playthroughs anyway, but no Zelda game had ever bothered me so much as how this one played. It's something I really wanted to play but got too frustrated with - and I've played through Epic Mickey's awful camera controls, so that's saying something.
With this remake… the only thing that's really bothered me has been the swim controls with Zora-link - particularly in the Great Bay Temple. Literally took the whole 3 days from Clock Town w/Inverted Song of Time and knowing what to do to get through that temple and boss because of the difficulty I had trying to make him swim/sink. As I said, I've never gotten past the Woodfall Temple in the N64 version, so I have no comparison... but man it's beenannoying.
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Smooth is really going in on Majora's Mask
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So I got my hands on the game (and am happy for some snow days to get to play it), and for the things I can tell changed, I'm happy. I still have my N64 and have made some attempts to get it out and play MM in previous years, but I could never really get the hang of it. I couldn't remember where things were or which way I needed to go, and I had an awful time of navigating around even when in the field. It was a big put-off so I never got much farther than the end of the first temple. Admittedly I'm spotty when it comes to playthroughs anyway, but no Zelda game had ever bothered me so much as how this one played. It's something I really wanted to play but got too frustrated with - and I've played through Epic Mickey's awful camera controls, so that's saying something.
With this remake… the only thing that's really bothered me has been the swim controls with Zora-link - particularly in the Great Bay Temple. Literally took the whole 3 days from Clock Town w/Inverted Song of Time and knowing what to do to get through that temple and boss because of the difficulty I had trying to make him swim/sink. As I said, I've never gotten past the Woodfall Temple in the N64 version, so I have no comparison... but man it's beenannoying.
No offense but the geography of Majoras Mask is quite possibly the most straight forward in the entire series outside of Skyward Sword.
Clock Town middle, Swamp south, Mountains north, Shore west, Ikana east, and Farms southwest. A literal compass for all intents and purposes. The field is just a medium sized circle. -
@Monkey:
No offense but the geography of Majoras Mask is quite possibly the most straight forward in the entire series outside of Skyward Sword.
Clock Town middle, Swamp south, Mountains north, Shore west, Ikana east, and Farms southwest. A literal compass for all intents and purposes. The field is just a medium sized circle.Wrong, the most straight forward is Spirit Tracks :ninja:
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@CCC:
Hidden for longish rant :P
! Agreed. Or as I phrased it before, "The people in charge of these decisions don't seem to have been fans of the original game."
Or at the very least they were god-awful at it (look at Aonuma's videos…) and set out to fix problems that didn't exist for what I imagine is the majority of players who did enjoy the game. But I guess that's the crux of it? They weren't looking to capitalize on players who enjoyed the game in 2000 and who were guaranteed to buy the remake out of nostalgia/love/whatever. The target audience is the average 3DS owner, which is probably someone in the 12-15 range whose Zelda experience began with OoT 3D or...Skyward Sword, heaven forbid. Someone who wouldn't necessarily be aware that these were changes in the first place, making the changes less striking and bizarre to them.
! Best example, imo, are the Zora controls. The game was built for unlimited speedy speedy zoomy Zora swimming. How so?
-Expansive, boring, mostly empty Great Bay area. You wanna cross that shit quickly to get to the next relevant spot. Getting impatient? Use magic to get to sea snakes faster->lack magic to kill all sea snakes. …Aqua guitar change at least lets you escape quickly though ;)
-Underwater wooden panels that require bashing. Can be done without magic, but it's obtuse since you never use the mechanic anywhere else.
-Long, twisting Beaver Race course with a time limit. They had to compensate for the control changes by adding magic pots along the way, turning it into a different sort of minigame. Much clunkier. New controls are also terrible in the event that you miss a ring and have to course correct.
-Large, dynamic water rooms in Great Bay Temple. Speeding through them (or fighting against that current while moving up/down through the main room) was so much of the original charm.
-Room in Stone Tower Temple that rewards good use of Zora movement (allowing you to reach small key ledge without the grabby hand or to reach the other ledge on the return trip with the light arrows without going through the awful 4-elegy-switch room again). They actually modified the small key ledge to be ordinarily climbable because…not only is asking the player to Zora-leap to it out of the question, but the grabby hand method was too hard!?
-Zora Moon dungeon. Original wasn't great. I'll concede that. You could be fucked out of the heart piece if you accidentally found the exit first. But making it so every ledge has to be leaped (lest you start over) with magic just seems like a bad confluence of changes.
! vs.
! -I bumped into a wall I didn't mean to three times throughout the original with speedy Zora controls.How about you just get yourself a Chateau Milk or whatever its called and have unlimited magic. Then you can go full bore the whole time in Zora form.
Pretty sure in order to even get the Zora mask you are able to do what needs to be done to get the Chateua Milk
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How about you just get yourself a Chateau Milk or whatever its called and have unlimited magic. Then you can go full bore the whole time in Zora form.
I mean you can do that. The option is there. But why exactly is it required to have unlimited magic to have faster swimming controls, especially when the magic shield is major drain on magic? If you're going through the Great Bay, the first thought shouldn't be "I should get Chateau Romani so I can get through Great Bay at a reasonable pace"
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Pretty sure in order to even get the Zora mask you are able to do what needs to be done to get the Chateua Milk
Actually not quite, because the prerequisite is the Romani Mask, and if you fail the alien fight or guarding the milk for some reason or just never attempt it because you didn't know about it, you won't have access to the romani mask, so it's not as if the quest is a guarantee for a 200 rupee bottle available at 10 PM at night
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Wrong, the most straight forward is Spirit Tracks :ninja:
I don't even care enough about those games to count them lol.
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@Purple:
I mean you can do that. The option is there. But why exactly is it required to have unlimited magic to have faster swimming controls, especially when the magic shield is major drain on magic? If you're going through the Great Bay, the first thought shouldn't be "I should get Chateau Romani so I can get through Great Bay at a reasonable pace"
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Actually not quite, because the prerequisite is the Romani Mask, and if you fail the alien fight or guarding the milk for some reason or just never attempt it because you didn't know about it, you won't have access to the romani mask, so it's not as if the quest is a guarantee for a 200 rupee bottle available at 10 PM at night
YOu need magic to roll around as Goron super fast, it makes total sense for Zora to be the same.
As for Requirements I'm talking about you need your horse to go to the Great Bay and in order to get your horse you have to be there before the Alien attack, so whether you IGNORE the potential to get the Milk is your own decision.
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YOu need magic to roll around as Goron super fast, it makes total sense for Zora to be the same.
As for Requirements I'm talking about you need your horse to go to the Great Bay and in order to get your horse you have to be there before the Alien attack, so whether you IGNORE the potential to get the Milk is your own decision.
Shut up Hinscher.
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YOu need magic to roll around as Goron super fast, it makes total sense for Zora to be the same.
Not for what CCC's point is, which is that a lot of things in MM are designed around faster swimming. Large open water area, beaver racing, the new gyorg dungeon (ugh), and whatever else CCC listed, are all designed with the idea that you can move fast, and when the regular swim is just barely faster than just paddling on the surface, it's a real drag.
Hell even regular goron rolling is considerably faster than regular walking, and the magic adds some extra speed for a few jumps that were built into the design as well as spikes to damage enemies. They serve entirely different purposes compared to something that aspects of the game were designed around
As for Requirements I'm talking about you need your horse to go to the Great Bay and in order to get your horse you have to be there before the Alien attack, so whether you IGNORE the potential to get the Milk is your own decision.
Ignoring or failing it for some reason (perhaps failing the mission) or just general ignorance of certain events that preclude you from obtaining the milk for anyone who wants that solution still sucks, and the idea itself is still an incredibly lackluster solution for what should be normal navigation of essentially one fourth of the game.