i have a feeling these fights are being kinda rushed because some of the strawhats are going to end up fighting some vice admirals.
What's with the sudden lack of interest on CP9 arc?
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kakus crazy girafe moods seemed stupid and zoros finisher was less than spectacular(kinda stupid actually)
You've managed to touch upon why I LOVE OP.
OP beats to death the shonen manga law that states everything must be badass and cool. Even at this point in the story we're still seeing villains that look downright retarded and carry out gags even during a battle.
I LOVE THAT!!!!!
OP is one of the few shonen action/adventure series that doesn't take itself too seriously. I'd much rather enjoy it as it is than 3 chapters of angst and melodrama with muscle-bound villains and complex (or uninteresting) fighting moves.
back in the 340's I was all concerned about how Oda could be unique with something as seemingly bland as Roku Shiki. My foot is now [thankfully] firmly in my mouth.
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I think this is one of the best arcs so far. Just… so much has happened. All the Straw hats have matured one way or another. I like how despite taking on a darker tone, the series still manages to be light hearted, and so full of emotion. I actually still love the CP9 characters.
Kaku is my most favorite, I just love how he reacted when he transformed and got made fun of... "Shut up! I like giraffes!" XD so great... and Zoro "You look.. retarded!" XDDDI think since I've been keeping up weekly with this arc, the characters have really grown on me.... I honestly sorta rushed through Skypiea, that arc... had its moments (ch 275~~ <3) but I still can say I really loved Alabasta... that arc has so many memorable moments.
As far as story progression... finally seeing Robin's past... it sorta changed the way I saw things in life. It seriously did impact me that much, which is why to this day, I'll still go back and read it with tears rolling down my face. I love those chapters so much. Made me love Robin even more.
Yeah, this is getting a bit long... but I am excited to see how they beat the crap outta CP9!
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I can't say the latest fight was a favorite, given all that's happened in the series, but I was still very impressed, since I don't even like Kaku much. It's not so much even Oda keeping his flair as it was just being able to make things fun. You can make a fighter ignite his colon and use it as a fire whip, but that doesn't mean it'll be good. I'm certain by the end of 425 he will have taken four dusty martial artists with the same abilities and made nine of his most exciting fights. Well, again, except for Calipha. But Nami was kinda cool there.
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It's not so much even Oda keeping his flair as it was just being able to make things fun.
Ah but that is Oda's speciality. Even read the interview regarding the animation on my site and the (I believe) Director Uda compliments him on being able to write emotional but funny stuff.
Yaaay
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You've managed to touch upon why I LOVE OP.
OP beats to death the shonen manga law that states everything must be badass and cool. Even at this point in the story we're still seeing villains that look downright retarded and carry out gags even during a battle.
I LOVE THAT!!!!!
OP is one of the few shonen action/adventure series that doesn't take itself too seriously. I'd much rather enjoy it as it is than 3 chapters of angst and melodrama with muscle-bound villains and complex (or uninteresting) fighting moves.
back in the 340's I was all concerned about how Oda could be unique with something as seemingly bland as Roku Shiki. My foot is now [thankfully] firmly in my mouth.
I have nothing to say except for the fact that this post is the most true thing I have read in quite a while.
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I think we were all a little worried about a whole team of villians with the same moveset….and we all had to eat a little crow on it. Good for Oda.
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for me, its all these bullshit power-ups. you spend more time trying to figure out what the hell just happened than enjoying the fight. I was ok until this most recen chapter. kakus crazy girafe moods seemed stupid and zoros finisher was less than spectacular(kinda stupid actually)
How is a hot leg a confusing concept?
No, seriously enlighten me on this.but kaku did mention zoros eyes having legendary decent or something, which was the highlight of the chapter. but I did not like zoros new technique or kakus fucked up body techniques.
A character in One Piece with a weird body contortions! The..the thought of it.
I mean its not like this thing started with a little boys arm stretching across a room or anything…Im interested in the lucchi fight greatly. and was interested in every chapter until about 415 when sanji and zoros bs power-ups start. but now I just wanna see what happens afterwards.
Zoro didn't powerup.
Sanji spun his leg fast so it got hot.
Bs what? Where? Why?but this zoro vs. kaku fight was imo the worst one piece fight ever, which is a shame considering how much I liked kaku(my 2nd favorite cp9) and how good the fight began. But oda went too far with kakus moves, and zoros techniques was like WTF?!?!?!.
It was all an illusion unless you didn't read the summary.
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the arc is very good. and i like how the fights are SHORT..not dragged out like naruto…and each chapter is jam packed w/plot and action. so i have no problem w/the cp9 arc, altho the zoro fight isnt the best compared to the others. ifound the chopper fight and franky fight to be the best. esp choppers, considering i think chopper finally redeemed himself as a brave reindeer, not a cowardly one like he was in skypiea, plus i think hes the only one that i've ever seen pwn an opponent SOOO BAD. i just loved that fight. but it seems the end is near, so i am x-cited to see where this all leads to. so i'm still loving this arc!
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You've managed to touch upon why I LOVE OP.
OP beats to death the shonen manga law that states everything must be badass and cool. Even at this point in the story we're still seeing villains that look downright retarded and carry out gags even during a battle.
I LOVE THAT!!!!!
OP is one of the few shonen action/adventure series that doesn't take itself too seriously. I'd much rather enjoy it as it is than 3 chapters of angst and melodrama with muscle-bound villains and complex (or uninteresting) fighting moves.
back in the 340's I was all concerned about how Oda could be unique with something as seemingly bland as Roku Shiki. My foot is now [thankfully] firmly in my mouth.
I like that wacky power thing too, but theres a limit. Atleast the others have been limited by what their powers?animals can do. Kaku extends and retracts his neck and extends his legs, its all stupid. Kaku was ruined in this chapter IMO. Im ok with zoros technique (iit seemed to have pointless movement, but oh well. But kakus techniques were a little too wacky for my tastes.
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I found Kaku's new technique amusing, and it means an end to the somewhat annoying Zoro snipes that his neck is the weak spot.
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I agree that the Battles seem a bit snipped in the manga, but hopefully they'll be able to elaborate them more in the Anime, so that these new techniques won't be so hard to comprehend.
I'm really excited to see what happens in the coming chapters, with Usopp dissappearing again, Luffy Franky and Lucchi standing off, and Robin on the Bridge of Hesitation
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I don't see how the battles are significantly shorter than the ones we've had before.
Kaku's giraffe moves were funny for a while, then the Pasta Machine shit kind of got on my nerves. It's a better fight than I expected (Kaku is my least favorite CP9), but I'm really glad it's over.
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Kaku extends and retracts his neck and extends his legs, its all stupid.
As compared to fighting a man that holds a sword in his mouth and seemed to grow two more heads and two more sets of arms?
As far as I can recall Zoro never had a battle against a character with a set of humorous moves like that unless you count Cabaji who wasn't really humorous, just…'different'. I think it's good that Oda could have fun with it.
Kaku was always a wierdo from day one, this shouldn't have ruined him, but made him even more of a goof. Maybe it just doesn't strike many of the English readers but his speech has always been.....'different' and his gags have been awesome as of late.
Again, I don't see why in a series where the main character is a giant piece of rubber, anything should be taken too seriously. If anything I respect Oda more for drawing what he wants and not adhering to tradition. Kudos to that.
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im kinda intrested still but i accidently missed eps 158 to this ep so im kinda amissed wats going on right now but i really wanna see teh XP9 fights i wanna makea AMV out of it cause i know it will be better than any otherbatlle the straw hat crew HAS EVER HAD!
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I like that wacky power thing too, but theres a limit. Atleast the others have been limited by what their powers?animals can do. Kaku extends and retracts his neck and extends his legs, its all stupid. Kaku was ruined in this chapter IMO. Im ok with zoros technique (iit seemed to have pointless movement, but oh well. But kakus techniques were a little too wacky for my tastes.
Your talking about One Piece right?
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As far as I can recall Zoro never had a battle against a character with a set of humorous moves like that unless you count Cabaji who wasn't really humorous, just…'different'.
Can't believe you forgot Hachi… tsk tsk.
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How is a hot leg a confusing concept?
No, seriously enlighten me on this.Its not confusing, its just well, unexplained. Sanji hasnt had a moment to train since he got on the sea train, If he knew this tech before then, why wouldnt he go all out on cp9 on the train?
A character in One Piece with a weird body contortions! The..the thought of it.
I mean its not like this thing started with a little boys arm stretching across a room or anything…yeah, but you expect that from a rubberman in a manga. a girafe? not so much. And nvm on this, its not that bad.
Zoro didn't powerup.
Sanji spun his leg fast so it got hot.
Bs what? Where? Why?again? the reason is that these moves were pulled outta their asses. Its like someone told oda that the mugiwaras needed powerups. I mean oda does leave alot of hints in the manga(even hints towards what bluenos power was seen when sanji saw robin with some guy and they disappeared.) with zoro and sanji, theres no evidence why they didnt use the powers earlier, or when they even learned to use them. Thats why I dont like them. Thats why its bs.
It was all an illusion unless you didn't read the summary.
thats one of the conclusions I came to on my own, but it doesnt make sense. If it was an illusion, then he gained no physical bonus from using the asura technique. Yet he cut through kakus amanedaichi. If he did this with no help from his other limbs, what was the point of the illusion? It was pointless.
If zoro can create illusions with his eyes, then this changes his character, he will no longer be a swordsman trying to get better. He will use the illusions to fight alot now, and his opponents will be trying to beat his illusions, not him(like in other mangas, they defeat the illusion then whoopp on him) I mean, it changes the way zoro fights and Im sorry, but Im not happy with that.
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Can't believe you forgot Hachi… tsk tsk.
He was a goof but we're talking about moves right? His moves weren't goofy or outlandish, (like popping his legs in and out and twisting his neck like a towel wrung so hard) he was just an absent-minded fellow.
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Its not confusing, its just well, unexplained. Sanji hasnt had a moment to train since he got on the sea train, If he knew this tech before then, why wouldnt he go all out on cp9 on the train?
He gave his leg more momentum then usual so that it got hot.
Thats not really a technique one develops.yeah, but you expect that from a rubberman in a manga. a girafe? not so much. And nvm on this, its not that bad.
The fact that hes a giraffe in the first place should have expelled all presumptions that the fight would be like Mr.1.
again? the reason is that these moves were pulled outta their asses. Its like someone told oda that the mugiwaras needed powerups. I mean oda does leave alot of hints in the manga(even hints towards what bluenos power was seen when sanji saw robin with some guy and they disappeared.) with zoro and sanji, theres no evidence why they didnt use the powers earlier, or when they even learned to use them. Thats why I dont like them. Thats why its bs.
Did Zoro even use a technique?
And anyway, dosen't he always?
Luffy does too, alot of them were mid-battle inventiveness.Exceptions being Chopper, Gear,and Nami.
thats one of the conclusions I came to on my own, but it doesnt make sense. If it was an illusion, then he gained no physical bonus from using the asura technique. Yet he cut through kakus amanedaichi. If he did this with no help from his other limbs, what was the point of the illusion? It was pointless.
I think the fact that he created an illusion of multiple arms suggests he was moving his arms really fast. Goku did this in Dragonball. Which is an obvious Oda influence.
Higher speed can put more force behind a blow.If zoro can create illusions with his eyes, then this changes his character, he will no longer be a swordsman trying to get better. He will use the illusions to fight alot now, and his opponents will be trying to beat his illusions, not him(like in other mangas, they defeat the illusion then whoopp on him) I mean, it changes the way zoro fights and Im sorry, but Im not happy with that.
The kind of illusion that created a demoney shape is a classic samurai thing. An image projected by his fighting ki. An aura one gets from a battle hardened warrior. Even dead serious realistic Lone Wolf and Cub has battle auras.
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I've been busy lately and didn't have computer access for a good while before that so I'm running behind on the chapters. I haven't lost interest, I just haven't had much of a chance to keep up.
interest usually takes a dip during periods like this though; chapters that are dominated by fighting usually lack major surprises outside of characters busting out new techniques. As such, there's not really all that much to say outside of "WOW!" and "That kicked ass!" It's cool, but not things that generate as much interest as more plot heavy sequences like the Robin flashback. This basically happened back during the Sea Train part of the story as well.
When the storyline gets back in gear, there will be more to talk about.
After all, a group of mangy pirates successfully stormed a symbol of the World Government that has a good chance of being one of the most recognized symbols in the world behind the WG palace in Mariejoa and the Naval Headquarters itself. The Gorosei are going to be pissed, which should lead to some interesting plot developments.
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He was a goof but we're talking about moves right? His moves weren't goofy or outlandish, (like popping his legs in and out and twisting his neck like a towel wrung so hard) he was just an absent-minded fellow.
Well, there's Tako Hachi Black, and that move where he tried to stop Zoro's swords with his hands.
again? the reason is that these moves were pulled outta their asses. Its like someone told oda that the mugiwaras needed powerups. I mean oda does leave alot of hints in the manga(even hints towards what bluenos power was seen when sanji saw robin with some guy and they disappeared.) with zoro and sanji, theres no evidence why they didnt use the powers earlier, or when they even learned to use them. Thats why I dont like them. Thats why its bs.
Zoro almosty always comes up with a new move during battle. Remember the Cannons? ODA MADE UP A BS UPGRADE FOR ZORO, HOW CAN HE SHOOT BEAMS FROM HIS SWORDS?????
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Its not confusing, its just well, unexplained. Sanji hasnt had a moment to train since he got on the sea train, If he knew this tech before then, why wouldnt he go all out on cp9 on the train?
The "reason" is that they were confused by Robins actions on techniques. On the train, for example, Sanji never imagined that the enemy would be hard as steel, so he thought his normal kick would work. After all, his normal kicks are faster then taking a minute to spin and build friction.
Also, spinning=friction=heat, that's the explaination to Sanji's technique. Maybe he had it earlier or ony had the idea of it before, he never had a reason to use it before now.
yeah, but you expect that from a rubberman in a manga. a girafe? not so much. And nvm on this, its not that bad.
Why not expect it? Every since zoan fruits came up, every animal is available for transformation. And using this new giraffe body on the fly shows kaku's talent, improvisation, and ability to adapt.
again? the reason is that these moves were pulled outta their asses. Its like someone told oda that the mugiwaras needed powerups. I mean oda does leave alot of hints in the manga(even hints towards what bluenos power was seen when sanji saw robin with some guy and they disappeared.) with zoro and sanji, theres no evidence why they didnt use the powers earlier, or when they even learned to use them. Thats why I dont like them. Thats why its bs.
You want a training sequence? Considering how easily that the SHs beat the CP9 with these moves, would it really be as cool if you knew about these moves ahead of time.
Listen, we're supposed to be smart enough to figure these things out. Sanji's heat leg is friction, Zoro's Asura is speed or talent or maybe even chi. The SHs didn't get the time to use these techs at W7, they were too caught up in the surprise of Robin's action and these new technique. The second time they met, the Shs knew all the move and were really to beat them.
thats one of the conclusions I came to on my own, but it doesnt make sense. If it was an illusion, then he gained no physical bonus from using the asura technique. Yet he cut through kakus amanedaichi. If he did this with no help from his other limbs, what was the point of the illusion? It was pointless.
No…the extra limbs made the move more difficult to dodge, and scared Kaku in the middle fo the fight. Suddenly becoming a demon or deity gave Zoro an advantage over Kaku.
If zoro can create illusions with his eyes, then this changes his character, he will no longer be a swordsman trying to get better. He will use the illusions to fight alot now, and his opponents will be trying to beat his illusions, not him(like in other mangas, they defeat the illusion then whoopp on him) I mean, it changes the way zoro fights and Im sorry, but Im not happy with that.
Please…Zoro is not an illusion fighter now, if anything, illusions will be one of his many ways to fight now. Like you kind of said, an opponent in the next or later arc will probably see through the illusion, and Zoro wil need a new move to beat him.
You're acting like illusions will limit Zoro's fighting talent. It's ridculous.
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He gave his leg more momentum then usual so that it got hot.
Thats not really a technique one develops.but you gotta think about it before hand. You dont get mad and all of a sudden start spinning and get your leg hot. He also had a name and everything. and wasnt that suprised with the effects, it wasnt in battle inventiveness, if it is, than he did, like I said, pull a move out of his ass, and oda is losing his touch.
The fact that hes a giraffe in the first place should have expelled all presumptions that the fight would be like Mr.1.
when did I say I wanted it to be like the Mr.1 fight, I just wanted a decent battle. The pasta machine thing is what got on my nerves, and the retracting and extending of his neck. and Like I said, this isnt an issue anymore. I was just saying there were plenty of other things he could have had kaku utilize instead of "pasta machine" but oh well.
Did Zoro even use a technique?
And anyway, dosen't he always?
Luffy does too, alot of them were mid-battle inventiveness.Exceptions being Chopper, Gear,and Nami.
I dont know what you were talking about here. And I love inbattle inventiveness. Thats what one piece fights were all about up until this arc. they were fighting an opponent with an advantage, and beating them by overcoming their advantage. but theres a differance between gettin Mr.2 to touch his cheek, or wait for him to attack and just plain setting your fucking leg on fire. I mean that wouldnt cross my mind midbattle even if I was superhuman.
and all zoros techniques hae been advancing his swordsmanship. not creating illusions. I mean either the six new swords are illusions, and zoro gets a power that will overtake his swords, or he grew 4 arms and 2 faces with swords using chi. Either result is gay. Im sorry, thats just how I feel. I believe oda will work it out, but I dont like it.
think the fact that he created an illusion of multiple arms suggests he was moving his arms really fast. Goku did this in Dragonball. Which is an obvious Oda influence.
Higher speed can put more force behind a blow.:blink: Can u imagine how retarded that would look? Hes waving his arms and head to create an illusion. I mean come one. Think of all the wasted movements. What possible advantage could flailing do. Although this is the least likely explanation, and the most retarded, Im hoping thats what it was(it wouldnt change zoro) but I really dont think thats it(there would be the motion signifiers, but there is none. The heads and arms are still. Zoro even talks from two of them if you look closely.
What got me thinking of the illusion thing was when kaku kamie dodged one of zoros strikes, but was still hit. Like zoro projected his move early to him nd he would dodge early, creating an opening. Or he created an illusion so he would misdodge. This actually has been rumored to have been a swordsman technique(like jin-e from kenshin, but different effects) this is also a good outcome imo, since its an actual technique, but I still dont like the illusion thing(especially if he used it in every battle from now on). but this still doesnt explain the boost in power.
The kind of illusion that created a demoney shape is a classic samurai thing. An image projected by his fighting ki. An aura one gets from a battle hardened warrior. Even dead serious realistic Lone Wolf and Cub has battle auras.
this is different from what you just said, but its similar to what I wrote before. But this wouldnt explain why he gained the extra limbs and broke through the amanedaichi
Zoro almosty always comes up with a new move during battle. Remember the Cannons? ODA MADE UP A BS UPGRADE FOR ZORO, HOW CAN HE SHOOT BEAMS FROM HIS SWORDS?????
Well cutting air with swords is used in many mangas, and is plausible if you can apply the right ammont of force. and oda let us see zoro thinking of the move and actually trying it and failing in the forest before fighting brahm. So he didnt come up with a new move during battle. So sorry, you didnt make a good point.
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but you gotta think about it before hand. You dont get mad and all of a sudden start spinning and get your leg hot. He also had a name and everything. and wasnt that suprised with the effects, it wasnt in battle inventiveness, if it is, than he did, like I said, pull a move out of his ass, and oda is losing his touch.
I'm sure he thought of it as method of breaking the Tekkai.
Its not a technique then he could have tried it on the train.And names for attacks in shonen are like….....not something to EVER take seriously. They sort of walk the line between existent and just non-existent.
Luffy makes up names all the time.
I don't think he thought of Gum Gum Idiot before Ener.I dont know what you were talking about here. And I love inbattle inventiveness. Thats what one piece fights were all about up until this arc. they were fighting an opponent with an advantage, and beating them by overcoming their advantage. but theres a differance between gettin Mr.2 to touch his cheek, or wait for him to attack and just plain setting your fucking leg on fire. I mean that wouldnt cross my mind midbattle even if I was superhuman.
His leg wasn't on fire, it was like a burning iron slab.
Its basic psuedo science.and all zoros techniques hae been advancing his swordsmanship. not creating illusions. I mean either the six new swords are illusions, and zoro gets a power that will overtake his swords, or he grew 4 arms and 2 faces with swords using chi. Either result is gay. Im sorry, thats just how I feel. I believe oda will work it out, but I dont like it.
Its an AURA, symbolic of his ferocity. Its a samurai story staple.
If Lone Wolf and Cub had battle auras, then by god its Ok for One Piece to have them.:blink: Can u imagine how retarded that would look? Hes waving his arms and head to create an illusion. I mean come one. Think of all the wasted movements. What possible advantage could flailing do. Although this is the least likely explanation, and the most retarded, Im hoping thats what it was(it wouldnt change zoro) but I really dont think thats it(there would be the motion signifiers, but there is none. The heads and arms are still. Zoro even talks from two of them if you look closely.
Son Goku did it.
So ….think about Oda's alleigances. -
Tony-kun, if you're that ticked off at the manga, I have a suggestion:
Stop reading it.
There. Problem solved.
Okay but does that mean every OP fan thought every battle in OP was perfect to this point? There are a bunch of battles I felt were totally worthless in the past. We don't need to shower Oda with praise if he doesn't write something that tickles our personal interest. I do believe that as a whole in this arc we can all find battles we liked and disliked. Saying we dislike some doesn't mean the whole story is hopeless.
Indeed. He's been careful to make bits that appeal to everyone: fights for those that like bad*ss moments, fights for those that like humourous gag rumbles, tactical fights, etc. etc. He doesn't just stick to one genre, which is one of the things that makes Oda such a great writer.
Its just a bunch of cheeky kids who havn't gotten used to waiting every week for new chapters.
Thank you. Glad to know someone agrees with me.
it seems he's having luffy do big things so fast.
400+ chapters is TOO FAST? o_O
I love CP9 so far, but as much as I like Lucci, he does seem to lack a kind of charm.
I get the feeling this may have been on purpose, actually. Of course, things could change quickly by the next chapter…
back in the 340's I was all concerned about how Oda could be unique with something as seemingly bland as Roku Shiki. My foot is now [thankfully] firmly in my mouth.
Yes. During Water 7, I was actually afraid Oda was losing that "magical touch" and going for more "realistic" type crap or something.
Then Jerry and Wanze appeared.
I no longer have any doubts to Oda's abilities.
Oh yes, and think that alot of people should wait till the end of this arc, then go back and read the arc in its ENTIRETY. I did that on some parts before and obtained a whole new outlook on it.
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In regards to Kaku's Giraffe contortions….
I just read something somebody wrote on another thread.
Folks...
During the Kumadori fight it actually hinted that Chopper may learn to control his transformations much better - he shifted to muscle point almost unconsciously just by wishing really hard for it.
Further evidence was provided by Kaku actually I think. Kaku practically was shifting to different Giraffe "points" without any help at all. For someone who just got a DF, he was a genius at learnings its ins and outs quickly and controlling them.
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Tony-kun, if you're that ticked off at the manga, I have a suggestion:
Stop reading it.
There. Problem solved.
Oh noes!!!! He's expressing his opinion!!! And it isn't "OMG KICKASS CHAPTER ODA PLIZ IMPREGNATE ME!!!!", he's not worthy of reading the Holy Writings of St Eiichiro, burn him, BURN TEH HERETIC!!!!!!!!!!!
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The "reason" is that they were confused by Robins actions on techniques. On the train, for example, Sanji never imagined that the enemy would be hard as steel, so he thought his normal kick would work. After all, his normal kicks are faster then taking a minute to spin and build friction.
Also, spinning=friction=heat, that's the explaination to Sanji's technique. Maybe he had it earlier or ony had the idea of it before, he never had a reason to use it before now.
what about when blueno stood there and took sanjis spin kick. He could have used the heat move there. Maybe that is what sparked the idea, but oda could have shown us his thought process like he did with zoros canon technique(like he could have put it together on the train)
and I understand the basic explanation of sanjis moves, thank you.:getlost:
Why not expect it? Every since zoan fruits came up, every animal is available for transformation. And using this new giraffe body on the fly shows kaku's talent, improvisation, and ability to adapt.
you took that out of context, I was replying to someone who said kaku shooting his neck like a canon and extending it was like luffys stretching ability. I was saying u expect stretching of limbs from a rubberman in a manga, not a girafe. Kakus abilities were fine up until then, idk why oda went in that direction with him, but oh well.
You want a training sequence? Considering how easily that the SHs beat the CP9 with these moves, would it really be as cool if you knew about these moves ahead of time.
Listen, we're supposed to be smart enough to figure these things out. Sanji's heat leg is friction, Zoro's Asura is speed or talent or maybe even chi. The SHs didn't get the time to use these techs at W7, they were too caught up in the surprise of Robin's action and these new technique. The second time they met, the Shs knew all the move and were really to beat them.
Luffy said he had developed a new move to everyone while on the sea train.
Chopper had a whole flashback before going chopzilla. They could have atleast had maybe two panels where sanji remembers the spining tech he used against blueno, and said something like "lets try this" but no, he says "thingss heat up when I get mad" like hes done this before, completely sure of what will happen. I like suprises, but I dont like loopholes unexplained things in the story. Oda has been very careful up until now with his allusions(he hinted at kaku, lucchi and kalifa being cp9 with their abilities, but were you not shocked when they took off their masks). I like it where u can rewatch episodes and see odas hints. But u cant with these power-ups. It just wasnt as carefully crafted as everything else oda does.No…the extra limbs made the move more difficult to dodge, and scared Kaku in the middle fo the fight. Suddenly becoming a demon or deity gave Zoro an advantage over Kaku.
did they scare his amanedaichi to part like the red seas right in front of him. No. Go re read the chapter and youll see zoro cutting through the amanedaichi.
Please…Zoro is not an illusion fighter now, if anything, illusions will be one of his many ways to fight now. Like you kind of said, an opponent in the next or later arc will probably see through the illusion, and Zoro wil need a new move to beat him.
You're acting like illusions will limit Zoro's fighting talent. It's ridculous.
no, but they will change the ways he fights. I like it when he just used his swordsmanship to fight. This changes things alot. More focus will be put on his illusions during a fight instead of his swordsmanship.
and thats what im afraid of. The straw hats using their upgrades to fight, their opponent seen through there power, gaains upperhand, then they get something to make them win. Thats the naruto formula. I loved how one piece had no energy or chi shit, it was straight up fighting with abilities. (it was like an american comic with a good storyline and likeable characters) I also liked how there was no training, they just used their own strength and wits to outsmart their opponents. and everything in one piece could be figured out with some thought(Most of one piece loosely follows physics to some extent, like a rubber band will snap back when stretched) but thats not the case anymore.
I still love one piece, but I loved it as it was. Im going to continue to keep up with the series and hope oda explains things.
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Come on guys, whipping out random invented techniques in battle is an old OP standard. Heck, all the way from the beach to justice toer Luffy was ad-libbing; Gum Gum Volcano, Gum Gum Alley Robo, etc. Nami's whole movelist is based on it, albeit with more scientific explanation, and Usopp thought of "Usopp's Hammer" in a moment of emotional distress.
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Oh noes!!!! He's expressing his opinion!!! And it isn't "OMG KICKASS CHAPTER ODA PLIZ IMPREGNATE ME!!!!", he's not worthy of reading the Holy Writings of St Eiichiro, burn him, BURN TEH HERETIC!!!!!!!!!!!
thank you, the reason Im posting all this stuff is that One piece is my favorite series, but just because it is doesnt mean im gonna ride odas nut and agree with everything he does, I dislike alot of the stuff hes done in the recent chapters, and since this is posting readons of lack of interest, I posted. If you dont like what Im saying, Fucking leave.
Im sorry for getting angry, but Im just debating with everyone. but dude Im just expressing my opinion, either prove me wrong or shut the fuck up.
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Come on guys, whipping out random invented techniques in battle is an old OP standard. Heck, all the way from the beach to justice toer Luffy was ad-libbing; Gum Gum Volcano, Gum Gum Alley Robo, etc. Nami's whole movelist is based on it, albeit with more scientific explanation, and Usopp thought of "Usopp's Hammer" in a moment of emotional distress.
but your missing the point. There is an infinite difference between thinking of jumping on somebodies back and controlling them, and spinning so fast the friction charges kinetic energy in your leg. and about gomu gomu no baka, it even showed luffy thinking about that move(he realised mantra reads your mind)
what I mean is, all luffys techniques up until the gears were just basically punches and kicks and such with names. That stuff cannot be compared to storing kinetic energy in you leg. I have no problems with the tech, I just wish oda showed a little more of what was going on in their heads when they did it, and where the inspiration came from(Im guessing something inspired them to since he didnt use it anywhere else in the series)
So plz, enough with the "well luffy made gomu gomu no baka up on the fly" gomu gomu no baka is basically luffy shutting his brain off. That requires no thought….literally
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what about when blueno stood there and took sanjis spin kick. He could have used the heat move there. Maybe that is what sparked the idea, but oda could have shown us his thought process like he did with zoros canon technique(like he could have put it together on the train)
and I understand the basic explanation of sanjis moves, thank you.:getlost:
I'm just saying that I don't think the move needs foreshadowing or explaination, I can figure it out for myself. Hell, I'd be insulted to get an explaination. Sanji used his natural speed and created friction on his shoes to make heat. Done.
He didn't used the spinning kick for the same reason that all the SHs lost the first time, they didn't get the CP9 techs. He probably thought the Concasser would work, but it didn't. Then, before using a new move, he got kicked by Kaku.
For Zoro's new move, well maybe it will get explained in the next chapter.
you took that out of context, I was replying to someone who said kaku shooting his neck like a canon and extending it was like luffys stretching ability. I was saying u expect stretching of limbs from a rubberman in a manga, not a girafe. Kakus abilities were fine up until then, idk why oda went in that direction with him, but oh well.
Well okay, but I don't think Kaku stretched his neck. He retracted his neck and popped it back out again.
Luffy said he had developed a new move to everyone while on the sea train.
Chopper had a whole flashback before going chopzilla. They could have atleast had maybe two panels where sanji remembers the spining tech he used against blueno, and said something like "lets try this" but no, he says "thingss heat up when I get mad" like hes done this before, completely sure of what will happen. I like suprises, but I dont like loopholes unexplained things in the story. Oda has been very careful up until now with his allusions(he hinted at kaku, lucchi and kalifa being cp9 with their abilities, but were you not shocked when they took off their masks). I like it where u can rewatch episodes and see odas hints. But u cant with these power-ups. It just wasnt as carefully crafted as everything else oda does.I was shocked when they took off their masks…:sad: But yeah, I see the hints looking back.
Sanji's new move is simple, it needs no explaination. And all the suggestions to flashback and training scenes sound half-assed, we can imagine how they would go anyway.
Now, Zoro's Asura, I think it's similar to Gomu gomu no gatling and everyone just refuses to except otherwise. But, maybe it will get developed more in later chapters.
did they scare his amanedaichi to part like the red seas right in front of him. No. Go re read the chapter and youll see zoro cutting through the amanedaichi.
That move isn't a complete circle. It's a spinning kick. Zoro probably cut Kaku when he had an opening. His attack was probably stronger anyway, does it need to be spelled out?
no, but they will change the ways he fights. I like it when he just used his swordsmanship to fight. This changes things alot. More focus will be put on his illusions during a fight instead of his swordsmanship.
You have a right to be afraid of that, but I don't think it will happen. He won't put more focus on illusions, he'll put 'some' focus on illusions. He only used one illusion in this fight, and it was probably an illusion of speed.
And it whoever mentioned this, that speed isn't wasted movement if it works.
and thats what im afraid of. The straw hats using their upgrades to fight, their opponent seen through there power, gaains upperhand, then they get something to make them win. Thats the naruto formula. I loved how one piece had no energy or chi shit, it was straight up fighting with abilities. (it was like an american comic with a good storyline and likeable characters) I also liked how there was no training, they just used their own strength and wits to outsmart their opponents. and everything in one piece could be figured out with some thought(Most of one piece loosely follows physics to some extent, like a rubber band will snap back when stretched) but thats not the case anymore.
That's not going to happen. There are "no chi" explaination for all of these moves. Really, nothing it seriousy chaning. Gears can be explained with vulcanization. Heat leg can be explained with speed and friction. Asura, it think, can be explained with speed.
It's not that confusing, and it's nothing like using chakra to turn you're body into a freaking throwing star.
I still love one piece, but I loved it as it was. Im going to continue to keep up with the series and hope oda explains things.
Well okay. Also, it whoever brought up people just expressing their opinions, well it's the fact that their opinions seems to lack a reasobable basis in my mind that I have to argue against it.
He says that OP is making up moves out of nowhere, I say that OP has always done that and these moves aren't so out there.
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Well, there's Tako Hachi Black, and that move where he tried to stop Zoro's swords with his hands.
Well they both make sense for an octopus right? Plus they're useful. Pasta Machine and its variants were just….yeah....never saw a giraffe or anything with bones in their body do THAT before ^O^ But that's why I personally took a shining to 'em.
I get a kick out of it when I picture Oda sitting at a desk writing the fastest-selling manga of all time and one of the highest-selling of all time with his tongue sticking out thinking to himself:
"Omigod this is sweet. I'm gonna make him into a giant Slinky."
I can understand how some people don't go for it but just that mental image alone is worth it for me.
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I'm just saying that I don't think the move needs foreshadowing or explaination, I can figure it out for myself. Hell, I'd be insulted to get an explaination. Sanji used his natural speed and created friction on his shoes to make heat. Done.
He didn't used the spinning kick for the same reason that all the SHs lost the first time, they didn't get the CP9 techs. He probably thought the Concasser would work, but it didn't. Then, before using a new move, he got kicked by Kaku.
For Zoro's new move, well maybe it will get explained in the next chapter.
I dont mean an explanation, but just some way that he thought of the technique. I mean unlike all the other moves in one piece, which are basically kicks and slashes with names, are we supposed to believe that someone gets mad and just decided he could spin so fast the kinetic energy caused by the friction would store up in his leg? this technique is no different than waht zoros pound canon was. Im not asking for an explanation. but I want to be able to go back and read and see that oda had planned for him to use this, right now it seems like he added it last minute. Oda usually plans his arcs out ahead of time, but with these attacks, it doesnt seem like it.
And zoro, absolutely, positively, 100% broke through the amanedaichi(or atleast that is what is shown in the chapter. When kaku releases it, u can see there is no hole. Zoro broke through it.
Well okay, but I don't think Kaku stretched his neck. He retracted his neck and popped it back out again.
nah, it stretched, just look how far away from his body it is, and when he retracts it and kicks at zoro on the way back, it gets back to its normal length.
Sanji's new move is simple, it needs no explaination. Now, Zoro's Asura, I think it's similar to Gomu gomu no gatling and everyone just refuses to except otherwise. But, maybe it will get developed more in later chapters.
again, its easy to understand, but would you have predicted thats what he would have done? If you were sanji, would you have thought of that? and what I mean is why it is different is that its a step above anything sanji has ever come up with during a fight. It had to have had some inspiration like luffys gears. Im not looking for an explanation of the technique, I want to know what brought about the thought for this technique. Oda is very good with this stuff usually(foreshadowing and explanations) so Im wondering ,why not this time?
and kaku brought up zoros eyes, and misjudged how to dodge his move before that, so my connection was an illusion from his eyes or something. Oda did this for a reason, Im just trying to figure it out. I think flailing your arms and head back and forth is kinda lame after the eye thing. Thats more of a joke kinda thing. and if you look at the arms, they arent moving. If it was fast movements, oda would draw those motion vibration things, but he doesnt, the arms are completely still. I think he even talks from 2 of his heads?
Its an AURA, symbolic of his ferocity. Its a samurai story staple.
If Lone Wolf and Cub had battle auras, then by god its Ok for One Piece to have them.IDK what this means. Could you explain who are what you are talking about? and I dont mean this in an asshole way, Im really curious.
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I dont mean an explanation, but just some way that he thought of the technique. I mean unlike all the other moves in one piece, which are basically kicks and slashes with names, are we supposed to believe that someone gets mad and just decided he could spin so fast the kinetic energy caused by the friction would store up in his leg? this technique is no different than waht zoros pound canon was. Im not asking for an explanation. but I want to be able to go back and read and see that oda had planned for him to use this, right now it seems like he added it last minute. Oda usually plans his arcs out ahead of time, but with these attacks, it doesnt seem like it.
It just dosen't seem like such a complex move, that it needed pre-layout.
IDK what this means. Could you explain who are what you are talking about? and I dont mean this in an asshole way, Im really curious.
Do you know what an aura is?
Well Zoro's ferocity creates one.
In a more serious realistic comic like Lone Wolf auras are simply feelings transfered from one swordsman to another. A certain look in the eyes etc.
In a more fantastical comic like OP they form actual visible auras.
If I recall we actually saw similaer things before with Zoro.Its all a mental thing.
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It just dosen't seem like such a complex move, that it needed pre-layout.
Im done explainin this one. Its just completely different than anything sanjis ever done. Its not hard to understand how he did it, but if its easy to come up with, y didnt he use it earlier in the series? all im saying is something must have inspired it, and I would have like oda to have shown us this instead of just having sanji do it.
Do you know what an aura is?
Well Zoro's ferocity creates one.
In a more serious realistic comic like Lone Wolf auras are simply feelings transfered from one swordsman to another. A certain look in the eyes etc.
In a more fantastical comic like OP they form actual visible auras.
If I recall we actually saw similaer things before with Zoro.Its all a mental thing.
That doesnt explain how he created the arms. Zoro called his technique "nine sword style" so hes aware of what hes doing. Its not like kaku is halucinating and seeing 9 swords, unless zoro is able to use his aura to induce halucinations and that would be one of my theories that u also refuted. So which is it?
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Guys, Kaku says its an illusion, so its an illusion.
But at the same time we know Zoro's Asura attack has tremendous power.
So basically, the extra swords are illusions, they are fake, but they might as well be real at the same time, because they are a visual indicator of the amount of attack power this Asura technique has.
Zoro has always produced animal images when he attacks, now hes producing the image of a god/demon when he attacks, thus these techiniques are on a higher tier. Such a higher tier, in fact, that the image of the creature being used actually becomes manifest visually -for not just the reader as has been the case previously- but for Zoro's actual opponent to see.
This really is not very complicated, and its perfectly in line with everything Zoro has done in the past just taken to the next step. People are thinking way to hard on this. Instead of animal illusions/images, hes now making illusions of demons/gods, and the attack is at a level to where the Chi being used actually causes the image of the diety to become visible.
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That doesnt explain how he created the arms. Zoro called his technique "nine sword style" so hes aware of what hes doing. Its not like kaku is halucinating and seeing 9 swords, unless zoro is able to use his aura to induce halucinations and that would be one of my theories that u also refuted. So which is it?
The arms/heads aren't real, unless your suggesting Zoro also grew new sleeves and bandanas AND swords.
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Im done explainin this one. Its just completely different than anything sanjis ever done. Its not hard to understand how he did it, but if its easy to come up with, y didnt he use it earlier in the series? all im saying is something must have inspired it, and I would have like oda to have shown us this instead of just having sanji do it.
I believe that he never needed to use this because before now his kicks have always been effective, so for all we know maybe he did always know this move!
Baratie= Fight with the iron wall was interrupted by krieg and gin,etc. In his fight with Gin, he was too hurt to move like normal.
Vs. Kuroobi= No need, his kicks owned him.
Vs. Mr.2= Actually, his kicks were still effective despite being stalemated with him for awhile. Sanji's Veal shoot was enough to beat him after he got past the mane mane fruit.
Vs. Satori=He just had to get close to him. This kick wouldn't have made anything easier.
Vs. Enel=Shocked before he could move really. Also, this may have been amonf the reasons he developed this maove if he didn't already have it. He said he would become the devil himself if Enel hurt Nami. Now he has the Devil wind legs. Foreshadowing.
Groggy Ring=No need.
Vs. Aokiji=His leg was frozen before he could move. Also, this may have been the time he decided to develop this move, if he didn't have it already. Maybe he trained and made it on the way to Water 7? Who knows how long it took. I personally believe that the SHs train inbetween islands, at least a little.
Vs. Blueno= He couldn't predict Tekkai and was knocked down before being able to attack again.
Therefore, I believe that it's very possible that Sanji already knew this move. Or at least had some time to develop it before this point.
Now, you want foreshadowing and the ability to predict these things ahead to time? For all the new moves and everything that happens in the series? That sounds like it would slow down the series. This move isn't complicated, and not so obvious. Oda probably thought it wasn't necessary.
Sanji saying "I'll become a devil" or "I'll become hot" is basically the same foreshadowing that the flying blade got. There's just less time from between when he foreshadowed the move and when he did it.
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I really don't think we need an explanation for these powerups. Yet, that also aren't just "pulling them out of their ass". Give Oda a little more faith as a writer - chances are, of we don't get an explanation we didn't need one in the first place. I bet that if we re-read all of One Piece after seeing this powerup, we would find some sort of foreshadowing explaining either how or when this technique was developed. And either way, it doesn't matter - I'd rather not get a flashback for every big move, thank you, because they take up too much space and it would get ridiculously tedious after a while.
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So basically, the extra swords are illusions, they are fake, but they might as well be real at the same time, because they are a visual indicator of the amount of attack power this Asura technique has.
:blink: :blink: …..........................Ill wait for oda tp explain it(u realize that makes no sense)
and your explanation is flawed onemoment. He did the spinning kick after seeing the tekkai, the spinning kick prep time could have been used for the flame kick move.
and there was plenty of time before aokiji froze his leg, and he could have charged the friction in the other one.
vs. krieg, I dont think he would have held back despite his wounds(he got pretty fucked up by kalifa too)
Im not worried about it, it might be brought up by the crew and he will explain it later.(like he has burns on his leg and he is asked what are they from or something)
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:blink: :blink: …..........................Ill wait for oda tp explain it(u realize that makes no sense)
Ya it does. Animal attacks cause animal illusions and give Zoro the power of that animal.
These god/demon techniques cause god/demon illusions and give Zoro the power of that god/demon.
The ONLY difference is that Zoro's opponent can actually see the image caused by these techniques, instead of just the reader. And that is just likely due to the level of the technique.
I seriously think your just so adamant about not wanting to like this new technique that your unwilling to listen to any explanation for it.
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:blink: :blink: …..........................Ill wait for oda tp explain it(u realize that makes no sense)
and your explanation is flawed onemoment. He did the spinning kick after seeing the tekkai, the spinning kick prep time could have been used for the flame kick move.
and there was plenty of time before aokiji froze his leg, and he could have charged the friction in the other one.
vs. krieg, I dont think he would have held back despite his wounds(he got pretty fucked up by kalifa too)
Im not worried about it, it might be brought up by the crew and he will explain it later.(like he has burns on his leg and he is asked what are they from or something)
No, I'm saying that Sanji made a mistake. He probably thought that his Concasser would be enough to knock down Bluneo, so he used that instead. He didn't quite get the strength of tekkai.
Also, what is actually so odd that if Sanji just made this move "on the fly." Sanji's always had great speed and strong shoes, thinking up this move wouldn't be difficult to him.
Maybe it's like the flying blade attack, Zoro said that the move wasn't ready before his fight with Braham, but it worked when he needed it. This kick could be the same.
These aren't perfect explaination, but they work for me. You need to be able to really suspend your beliefs with these kinds of series.
And yeah, it's always possible that it will be explained later. I mean, the SHs are usually too weak to fight after beating an opponent, yet he seemed fine after his fight. That's what's weird to me…
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I think were supposed to be under the assumption that the SH are constantly training in between islands and adventures to get stronger.
Oda would simply rather surprise us with their training results in mid battle, than bore us with constantly showing them training out of battle. You think the SH crew didn't realize they needed to get stronger to take on CP9 after the incident at the masion, or after fightng our favorite blue pheasant? I'm sure it was on thier mind. But who really cares to see that? Better to see the results of thier laber than the labor itself.
As for Sanji's technique, hes scrapping his shoes along the ground as he spins, causing friction and heating up his feet - that's where the heat and kinetic energy come from, which in turn adds power to his kicks.
Ya it doesn't work in real physics, but neither does mantra, nor can really martial artists walk on the air or turn thier bodies into steel.
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Oh noes!!!! He's expressing his opinion!!! And it isn't "OMG KICKASS CHAPTER ODA PLIZ IMPREGNATE ME!!!!", he's not worthy of reading the Holy Writings of St Eiichiro, burn him, BURN TEH HERETIC!!!!!!!!!!!
Don't try pulling that crap again. It's irritating, really.
Expressing opinions is fine. Nit picking, double-posting, and generally keeping us from enjoying a good story is not.
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Don't try pulling that crap again. It's irritating, really.
Is that a menace? Dude, are you for real? INTERNET HARD MAN ALERT
What's irritating is intolerant fanboys like you who can't accept the fact some people don't unconditionally love everything Oda churns out, and that ridiculous "if you don't like it don't read it" comment I see posted sometime when a criticism is made towards One Piece.
Newsflash; some people have different tastes than yours. Respect them, and if you disagree with them, discuss it, that's what forums are for, instead of throwing an hissy fit.
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I think were supposed to be under the assumption that the SH are constantly training in between islands and adventures to get stronger.
Oda would simply rather surprise us with their training results in mid battle, than bore us with constantly showing them training out of battle. You think the SH crew didn't realize they needed to get stronger to take on CP9 after the incident at the masion, or after fightng our favorite blue pheasant? I'm sure it was on thier mind. But who really cares to see that? Better to see the results of thier laber than the labor itself.
If you don't adequately tease some stuff, it may begin to stretch plausibility even within the rules.
If we see a new perfected technique mere days after the last fight (which had no sign of it), it seems odd; you'd think there'd be the occasional attempt at a new technique in battle even if wasn't perfect.
Also, where are some of these people learning the new skills? We rarely see Sanji train, and was there any insight prior to this that he had learned any skills he hadn't studied from Zeff?
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If you don't adequately tease some stuff, it may begin to stretch plausibility even within the rules.
If we see a new perfected technique mere days after the last fight (which had no sign of it), it seems odd; you'd think there'd be the occasional attempt at a new technique in battle even if wasn't perfect.
That's one of the criticisms I have of the story too. But I think One Piece is just following the formula that almost every other single shonen manga has been following since, well, forever. Even in those series where training sequences are explicitly shown, we still have characters saving their best attacks/trump cards for last, and rarely if ever do we see them being used for weaker/lesser fighters. I think in the former case it's done that way to drag out fights and make things more dramatic for the reader. In the latter it's to show that those weak characters are indeed weak and do not require a character's strongest attack to defeat him/her/it. I think the only reason why some are having trouble accepting upgrades in One Piece is because they're used to the train -> upgrade sequence found in almost every other shonen manga, and thus sort of expect it. But I'm glad Oda did not follow all the other shonen manga and focus the story on training and fighting, but instead place the main focus on traveling the seas and exploring islands (I believe he stated as such in an interview or SBS).
@Bounty1Berry:Also, where are some of these people learning the new skills? We rarely see Sanji train, and was there any insight prior to this that he had learned any skills he hadn't studied from Zeff?
Just because we don't see something happening doesn't mean it doesn't happen. We don't see the any of the mugiwaras going to the bathroom either, but does that mean no one ever relieves him or herself? Of course not. Oda simply decided to spare the reader that mundane aspect of life aboard the Going Merry. And IMO, training is another one of those mundane things mugiwaras do that Oda decided to spare us from as well. The only reason why we see Zoro training, and not other mugiwaras, is because I think we're supposed to believe that that's pretty much all he ever does on the ship. Well, that and sleeping. Honestly, it's not hard to imagine some mugiwaras other than Zoro training every now and then. They spend most of their days 24/7 on a boat in the middle of the ocean. What else are they going to do?
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May I remind you all that such behavior as saying "shut the fuck up", calling people names does not make for good discussion, and also that just because someone criticises the manga, it doesn't mean that they should be told to stop reading it, and likewise that just because another person defends the criticism and doesn't see the same faults that they are "intolerant fanboys"? And it's hypocritical to tell someone not to throw a hissyfit when you are throwing one yourself.
Please stick to the discussion, criticising each other will get you nowhere.