Marineford/War of the Best Discussion Thread

Rogues' Gallery

@LordEnel:

if it had played out realistically,

This is a comic from Japan about the adventures of a rubber pirate, where everything from facial features, to body types, to magical abilities and even the daily weather is either grossly exaggerated or outright defies the laws of physics and common sense.

There simply is no "realistically" in One Piece. Period. To even attempt to argue against that is completely ridiculous.

If you had any grievances against the Marineford Arc that you felt needed addressing, It would've been better to take them to the proper Marineford/War of the Best Discussion Thread, instead of creating a rather pointless thread.

Tyrano

There's a thread for this already and it's a tired old subject.

RamistaR

Yeah the thread is on the second page…

If it was realistic. I would say exactly the same result, but with a dead Crocodile.

Darth

@RamistaR:

Yeah the thread is on the second page…

If it was realistic. I would say exactly the same result, but with a dead Crocodile.

I hate the word… realistic.

If realistic physics would be implemented for Admirals, they would outright murder everyone.

Light Bro

@Darth:

I hate the word… realistic.

If realistic physics would be implemented for Admirals, they would outright murder everyone.

But this is fiction and it would be a boring solution.

Seriously tough if we want to talk about how One Piece would work realistically might as well make a general thread about it. (Unless we already tried and failed miserably…)

Darth

@Light:

But this is fiction and it would be a boring solution.

Exactly.

There are things I consider outright stupid in Marineford, but realistic Marineford would've ended a lot sooner, and would end up being a lot more boring.

Dark-Abel

The thing with Marineford is that a lot of powerfull characters like the Admirals and Whitebeard couldn't go all out because of the allies that surrounded them.
We saw what happend when it's a 1 vs 1 with Akainu vs Kuzan

FelRes

Whitebeard and Ace prolly wouldn't have been the only ones to die if it were realistic derp.

Medical Orbit

@FelRes:

Whitebeard and Ace prolly wouldn't have been the only ones to die if it were realistic derp.

They weren't. Akainu melted someone for running away and wanting to go to his family.

DynamiteShikoku

realistically, akainu can just meteor the shit out of everyone the moment their ship arrived.

pirates : we're here! get ready for battle!
akainu : meteor volcano!
pirates : shit..

if a marine can get the rewards for bounties, akainu will be super rich.

puffing.cinema

C'mon, guys! The OP misused the word "realistic", but my guess is that he would like to speculate what would happen if the characters didn't had plot armor.

JohnTnaig

@puffing.cinema:

C'mon, guys! The OP misused the word "realistic", but I guess that he would like to speculate what would happen if the characters didn't had plot armor.

This.

There is no need to get so worked up about it.

Shadowgreed

@LordEnel:

I just re read the marineford arc, and obviously as much as I love it, It was very much plot driven.

Let's go back to the beginning of Marineford, if it had played out realistically , what would have happened in your opinion?

Playing realistically Whitebeard would have sank Marine Ford while Marco retrieves Ace before he falls into the ocean and If he happen to fall Jimbi can pretty much outmatch everyone underwater

DynamiteShikoku

realistically, luffy wont be able to open ace's handcuff because mr 3 wont conveniently be there. he has no reason at all to be there. he was even shown to be going to execute ace if it werent for luffy's CoC which makes it more weird. so realistically, ace wont be freed and sengoku will KO'd luffy. i wonder what happen next if that's the case.

FelRes

@Medical:

They weren't. Akainu melted someone for running away and wanting to go to his family.

I was thinking that was anime only for some reason, but I'll just trust your word.

Okay, then 4+ people woulda died.

DollarScholar

Why didnt Mihawk get to do something cool in this arc? Correct me if im wrong but i believe he is the only Warlord who did not even cause a scratch of damage to anyone.

Shadowgreed

@DollarScholar:

Why didnt Mihawk get to do something cool in this arc? Correct me if im wrong but i believe he is the only Warlord who did not even cause a scratch of damage to anyone.

The dude wasn't even trying, he was the most involved in the fghts and he didn't get a scratch on him, so that says a lot.

DollarScholar

@Shadowgreed:

The dude wasn't even trying, he was the most involved in the fghts and he didn't get a scratch on him, so that says a lot.

Except for Luffy, whom he activley tried to kill (going as far as to apologize to shanks for himself and saying he wont hold back).

I mean the other warlords got to show off, why not make the worlds strongest swordsman look a bit more fearsome while at it? i never really bought into the "so badass he holds back and does nothing" shonen logic, i prefere to see action.

desa

@Shadowgreed:

The dude wasn't even trying, he was the most involved in the fghts and he didn't get a scratch on him, so that says a lot.

He was trying. He just happened to fail at killing Luffy and end up getting stalled by Vista.

Darth

@Shadowgreed:

Playing realistically Whitebeard would have sank Marine Ford while Marco retrieves Ace before he falls into the ocean and If he happen to fall Jimbi can pretty much outmatch everyone underwater

I disagree. Sengoku and Admirals are there. At the very least they can guarantee Ace dies with them.

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@Shadowgreed:

The dude wasn't even trying, he was the most involved in the fghts and he didn't get a scratch on him, so that says a lot.

He was hardly the most involved.

Luca

I think the marines were hugely held back, imo ace luffy whitebeard jimbei marco and jozu would have died.

If the start continued realistically with shanks and bb, bb would have died, akainu kizaru anfd aokiji would have died, bb would have died, shanks would have died, maybe garp/sengoku one of the two would have died.

DollarScholar

@LordEnel:

I think the marines were hugely held back, imo ace luffy whitebeard jimbei marco and jozu would have died.

If the start continued realistically with shanks and bb, bb would have died, akainu kizaru anfd aokiji would have died, bb would have died, shanks would have died, maybe garp/sengoku one of the two would have died.

In other words - Buggy would have emerged victorious?

baby-boo

@DollarScholar:

Why didnt Mihawk get to do something cool in this arc? Correct me if im wrong but i believe he is the only Warlord who did not even cause a scratch of damage to anyone.

Ideally you'd have Mihawk spam a bunch of slashes in every direction and slice everyone. Jozu can't be everywhere. But the Shichibukai's, unlike the Marines, had little incentive to give it their all. They were shown to either fight for the fun of it or because of circumstance. Moria fought for revenge and for Oarz. Doffy likes to have fun, is all. Boa guarded Luffy. Kuma did some, but he's a machine anyway.

Its quite clear with Mihawk that he just wants to chill. He's got a castle. He's got a title that protects him.

Shadowgreed

@Darth:

I disagree. Sengoku and Admirals are there. At the very least they can guarantee Ace dies with them.

fear enough, but that's guarantying that they will have enough time to do it before Marco shows up or Jimbi do some water shit and pulls Ace to dept of the sea

He was hardly the most involved.

hardly the most involved, the dude arrived and the first thing he did was attack Whitebeard then Luffy, Vista, Daz and Croco Boy, his was the second Shishi with most fights in there assuming Boa was fighting everybody marines and pirates alike

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@DollarScholar:

Except for Luffy, whom he activley tried to kill (going as far as to apologize to shanks for himself and saying he wont hold back).

I mean the other warlords got to show off, why not make the worlds strongest swordsman look a bit more fearsome while at it? i never really bought into the "so badass he holds back and does nothing" shonen logic, i prefere to see action.

@desa:

He was trying. He just happened to fail at killing Luffy and end up getting stalled by Vista.

Well yeah in Luffy he was trying or that's what Oda implied and @DollarScholar for the same reason the Admiral didn't or the Whitebeard Pirates didn't look that super, yes they did thear thing but it was mostly calculated, not too crazy but not too weak either for both parties. He still needs them so showing up their everything would have been a mistake.

desa

@Shadowgreed:

fear enough, but that's guarantying that they will have enough time to do it before Marco shows up or Jimbi do some water shit and pulls Ace to dept of the ocean.

What excatly stops Aokiji from freezing the water like in the manga? And Jimbei was in prison.

Shadowgreed

@desa:

What excatly stops Aokiji from freezing the water like in the manga? And Jimbei was in prison.

The same thing that is stopping Vista from slicing the ice or Whitebeard from shattering it. this is an infinte discussion that should have not been brought up to begin with.

Sereques

@LordEnel:

I just re read the marineford arc, and obviously as much as I love it, It was very much plot driven.

Let's go back to the beginning of Marineford, if it had played out realistically , what would have happened in your opinion?

Whitebeard pirates getting crushed.

asm00200

Whenever fans start discussing how certain scenarios shouldn't have happened or how things should've happened, I start appreciating the writer for not giving a fuck about what the fans want.

"Gee, why couldn't Whitebeard just sink the island and send his Fishman commander to grab Ace from under water!!1!!1!"

Darth

@asm00200:

Whenever fans start discussing how certain scenarios shouldn't have happened or how things should've happened, I start appreciating the writer for not giving a fuck about what the fans want.

"Gee, why couldn't Whitebeard just sink the island and send his Fishman commander to grab Ace from under water!!1!!1!"

The argument is, frankly, idiotic. It all stems from one misguided notion that somehow, Whitebeard can sink the island, but completly without collateral.

But on the other hand, you can only appreciate write not giving a fuck, as you say, until the work reaches certain low standarts.

And Marineford reaches those low standarts. It's bloody contrived.

asm00200

@Darth:

The argument is, frankly, idiotic. It all stems from one misguided notion that somehow, Whitebeard can sink the island, but completly without collateral.

But on the other hand, you can only appreciate write not giving a fuck, as you say, until the work reaches certain low standarts.

And Marineford reaches those low standarts. It's bloody contrived.

The funny thing is that that scenario is doable if things were arranged in a specific way which will allow Whitebeard to do all his attacks without being touched.

You obviously have a problem when it comes to how you're supposed to read manga in general.

Darth

@asm00200:

The funny thing is that that scenario is doable if things were arranged in a specific way which will allow Whitebeard to do all his attacks without being touched.

Translation: Contrived further.

@asm00200:

You obviously have a problem when it comes to how you're supposed to read manga in general.

Because art can only be interpreted in one way, and that's our way.

The "You just don't get it" line of defence, used to justify any crap in existence.

asm00200

@Darth:

Translation: Contrived further.

Everything is contrived in a fictional story. A situation that makes sense is contrived, a situation that doesn't make sense is contrived. And no, one is not always better than the other.

Because art can only be interpreted in one way, and that's our way.

The "You just don't get it" line of defence, used to justify any crap in existence.

I'm not talking about interpreting a story. I'm talking about how to take certain thing in/from different types of mediums or genres. It sounds like you're reading One Piece like you're reading a detective novel or some deep shit where everything needs to make sense and go in certain ways. Which obviously doesn't work here like it doesn't work in other types of stories whither in books or in movies… like, I'm not gonna wait for the Expendables to make sense anytime soon and I don't expect it to, because it doesn't claim to be and it's not supposed to be, either...

Gore

Michael bay wrote Marineford war.

Hes doing Dressrosa as well, look at all the explosions and craziness.

Whackadoodle

@RamistaR:

As for Marineford, I wouldn't have started random fights like Croc vs Mihawk, Smoker vs Boa and Mingo vs Croc. It's like they just stopped fighting at some point for no reason.
Having the new world captains and the fleet commanders fight instead (and lose) against the Schichibukais would have been more clever IMO.

I emphatically disagree on this; in fact, I think the fights at Marineford were handled correctly for the most part. It always bugs me when there's some mass battle going on in a story, and characters are pairing off to duel. Real battlefields are chaotic, and you generally can't afford to focus too much on a single enemy, since someone you're not paying attention to can easily kill you. It makes perfect sense for people to be involved in some skirmishes with no clear resolution to the fight, and, in addition, it's a useful storytelling device. It allows us to get a glimpse of these big players, and hype them up, without revealing their full capabilities yet or undermining their hype through a clean defeat, and allows us to be introduced to far more characters in a relatively short span of panels devoted to the fights.

King Cannon

Real fights during Marineford would be pointless and time-wasting.

No sense focusing on Croc vs. Doula when they have nothing to do with rescuing Ace. And Whitebeard had over 10 Commanders. You can't give a proper fight to each one, especially when most of them are so minor.

RamistaR

@Whackadoodle:

I emphatically disagree on this; in fact, I think the fights at Marineford were handled correctly for the most part. It always bugs me when there's some mass battle going on in a story, and characters are pairing off to duel. Real battlefields are chaotic, and you generally can't afford to focus too much on a single enemy, since someone you're not paying attention to can easily kill you. It makes perfect sense for people to be involved in some skirmishes with no clear resolution to the fight, and, in addition, it's a useful storytelling device. It allows us to get a glimpse of these big players, and hype them up, without revealing their full capabilities yet or undermining their hype through a clean defeat, and allows us to be introduced to far more characters in a relatively short span of panels devoted to the fights.

Yeah I see your point, but to be honest I was only bothered by the few "fights" I mentioned. I just think the chaotic aspect of the battlefield is better portrayed in the rest of the Arc.

Rolands

On the whole I thought the Marineford arc was handled quite well. There's just one part about the flow of things that doesn't seem right. The vast majority of the arc is spent with the top-players wearing kiddy gloves. They exchange a few of their best attacks at the start, then keep things relatively low-key for most of the duration. Seeing as the strongest people there are stronger than 99% of everyone else put together, wouldn't it make more sense for them to cut loose instead of spending most of the battle doing nothing? It's not even about conserving energy: Kizaru or Whitebeard for example can cause mass destruction with zero effort.

Razh

And kill their own men while doing so.

We saw what can happen when top fighters don't have to worry about hurting anyone else but their enemy. Just look at Punk Hazard.

Rolands

@Razh:

And kill their own men while doing so.

We saw what can happen when top fighters don't have to worry about hurting anyone else but their enemy. Just look at Punk Hazard.

Obviously they'd hold their men back. It's as I say; the weaker fighters got in the way of the stronger ones.

Darth

@Razh:

And kill their own men while doing so.

We saw what can happen when top fighters don't have to worry about hurting anyone else but their enemy. Just look at Punk Hazard.

Or you know… plot.

The entire thing is build in the exact way to allow for two things to occur: Sakazuki killing Ace, and Blackbeard killing Whitebeard. And because of that, certain key figures need to hold back, or act stupid and incompetent.

desa

@Darth:

Or you know… plot.

The entire thing is build in the exact way to allow for two things to occur: Sakazuki killing Ace, and Blackbeard killing Whitebeard. And because of that, certain key figures need to hold back, or act stupid and incompetent.

What's your favorite arc?

Darth

@desa:

What's your favorite arc?

16 characters of Anime or Manga?

desa

@Darth:

16 characters of Anime or Manga?

Anime and then manga.

Razh

@Darth:

Or you know… plot.

The entire thing is build in the exact way to allow for two things to occur: Sakazuki killing Ace, and Blackbeard killing Whitebeard. And because of that, certain key figures need to hold back, or act stupid and incompetent.

I think I made it clear plenty of times that I think Marineford battle was scripted in order for some key things to happen.

Just imagine Aokiji freezing the sea while Moby Dicks were about to emerge, or Kizaru using his kick laser, the one that was big enough to cut down mangrove, or Whitebeard just sinking everything but the part with execution stand on it.

Darth

@desa:

Anime and then manga.

Water 7/Enies Lobby, Saboady, Impel Down for anime.

Alabasta, Saboady, Skypiea for manga.

In that order. Altough it's a close call for most of the pre-timeskip arcs.

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@Razh:

I think I made it clear plenty of times that I think Marineford battle was scripted in order for some key things to happen.

Just imagine Aokiji freezing the sea while Moby Dicks were about to emerge, or Kizaru using his kick laser, the one that was big enough to cut down mangrove, or Whitebeard just sinking everything but the part with execution stand on it.

Yeah, that was obvious, and I think we can agree upon it.

At least Whitebeard was given a decent excuse of his powers having a massive collateral…