A topic that keeps reappearing across several threads is issues about one of the most important arcs in the series to date, namely the Marineford war.
Having had such a monumental effect on the series as a whole, discussion over this arc is widespread and it can't really continue spreading across other threads, nor be contained by something like the general marines thread.
Everything concerning this arc, it's content, it's impact on the world etc. should be discussed in here.
In that, we are for once in perfect agreement.
Maybe now it will stop rearing it's ugly head. Or at least be contained in here.
I can't help but be amused by this. It's like trying to limit the damage a forest fire can do by at least containing it in a certain area.
Oh well, not that I object of course.
I liked Marineford. While there were definitely negative aspects about it, I felt a lot of the drama was appropriate due to the seriousness of the events going on. We had several, huge reveals. Luffy was referred to as a "greenhorn" and "rookie" the entire time, which was a bit of a slap to the face cause it was a solid reminder of just how much of a gap there was between Luffy and the big boys. It was easy to get a little big headed over Luffy's recent victories, and this put him back into place.
In that, we are for once in perfect agreement.
Maybe now it will stop rearing it's ugly head. Or at least be contained in here.
Indeed we are…it feels strange.
Like sticking my arm in a barrel I think is full of snakes and instead coming out with a candy apple.
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I can't help but be amused by this. It's like trying to limit the damage a forest fire can do by at least containing it in a certain area.
Oh well, not that I object of course.
I liked Marineford. While there were definitely negative aspects about it, I felt a lot of the drama was appropriate due to the seriousness of the events going on. We had several, huge reveals. Luffy was referred to as a "greenhorn" and "rookie" the entire time, which was a bit of a slap to the face cause it was a solid reminder of just how much of a gap there was between Luffy and the big boys. It was easy to get a little big headed over Luffy's recent victories, and this put him back into place.
Lol if there was one function that Marineford most certainly provided, it was displaying Luffy's strength in relative terms, very true.
My grandmother showed me. We buried an oil drum, and hinged the lid. Then we wired coconut to the lid as bait. The rats come for the coconut, and… They fall into the drum, and after a month, you've trapped all the rats. But what did you do then? Throw the drum into the ocean? Burn it? No. You just leave it. And they begin to get hungry, then one by one... They start eating each other, until there are only two left. The two survivors. And then what - do you kill them? No. You take them, and release them into the trees. Only now, they don't eat coconut anymore. Now they will only eat Darth.
My grandmother showed me. We buried an oil drum, and hinged the lid. Then we wired coconut to the lid as bait. The rats come for the coconut, and… They fall into the drum, and after a month, you've trapped all the rats. But what did you do then? Throw the drum into the ocean? Burn it? No. You just leave it. And they begin to get hungry, then one by one... They start eating each other, until there are only two left. The two survivors. And then what - do you kill them? No. You take them, and release them into the trees. Only now, they don't eat coconut anymore. Now they will only eat Darth.
…so we're going to stick Darth in a barrel?
I'l make sure to stamp the marines logo across it so he's comfortable, at least.
_"_Now! This is it! Now is the time to choose! Die and be free of pain or live and fight your sorrow! Now is the time to shape your stories! Your fate is in your hands!" - Auron
My grandmother showed me. We buried an oil drum, and hinged the lid. Then we wired coconut to the lid as bait. The rats come for the coconut, and… They fall into the drum, and after a month, you've trapped all the rats. But what did you do then? Throw the drum into the ocean? Burn it? No. You just leave it. And they begin to get hungry, then one by one... They start eating each other, until there are only two left. The two survivors. And then what - do you kill them? No. You take them, and release them into the trees. Only now, they don't eat coconut anymore. Now they will only eat Darth.
Rami I love you my friend.
10/10 Skyfall reference. And every word is 100% accurate, too.
It's also a great metaphor for this thread. This thread is the buried oil drum, and the bait is getting people to talk about Marineford. Although honestly I thought you were going to say Rob and Darth were the two rats 
…so we're going to stick Darth in a barrel?
I'l make sure to stamp the marines logo across it so he's comfortable, at least.
Well, that's a start.
You want to know the funny thing? I absolutly loved Marineford weekly.
I still do… but damn, that arc. It's literaly all about the story and impact, and every little thing is subservient to it.
…so we're going to stick Darth in a barrel?
I'l make sure to stamp the marines logo across it so he's comfortable, at least.
It's also a great metaphor for this thread. This thread is the buried oil drum, and the bait is getting people to talk about Marineford. Although honestly I thought you were going to say Rob and Darth were the two rats
Same story, different versions. And all are true.
I still do… but damn, that arc. It's literaly all about the story and impact, and every little thing is subservient to it.
That's what I love about it so much. It's such a great piece of storytelling, in terms of how it both evolves the story and at the same time changes everything we knew about it. Ace's parentage, One Piece being confirmed, Teach getting a jump start on making the new era his age, and all of the reveals plus finally seeing Akainu properly, and what he can do.
I've said this in another thread, but I absolutely love how, since Jaya, there's a sort of idea or theme about the Grand Age of Pirates coming to an end. There's a new age coming, and Marineford marks the end of the Old Age we had been accustomed to since the start of the story.
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Same story, different versions. And all are true.
1/10 Pirates of the Caribbean reference
:(
That's what I love about it so much. It's such a great piece of storytelling, in terms of how it both evolves the story and at the same time changes everything we knew about it. Ace's parentage, One Piece being confirmed, Teach getting a jump start on making the new era his age, and all of the reveals plus finally seeing Akainu properly, and what he can do.
Don't get me wrong, I love that stuff, but number of contrivences made to create it pisses me off.
I've said this in another thread, but I absolutely love how, since Jaya, there's a sort of idea or theme about the Grand Age of Pirates coming to an end. There's a new age coming, and Marineford marks the end of the Old Age we had been accustomed to since the start of the story.
Hmhph. I will believe it when I see it. It's been same old story thus far. Nothing new about this age.
I'm going to be honest, If we were both turned into rats and forced to fight in an oil drum…I'm pretty confident I could take Darth.
Probably.
_"_Now! This is it! Now is the time to choose! Die and be free of pain or live and fight your sorrow! Now is the time to shape your stories! Your fate is in your hands!" - Auron
1/10 Pirates of the Caribbean reference
:(
EEEEEEEH ?! I think it's a an amazing trilogy:ninja:
As for Marineford, I wouldn't have started random fights like Croc vs Mihawk, Smoker vs Boa and Mingo vs Croc. It's like they just stopped fighting at some point for no reason.
Having the new world captains and the fleet commanders fight instead (and lose) against the Schichibukais would have been more clever IMO.
Hmhph. I will believe it when I see it. It's been same old story thus far. Nothing new about this age.
!
It's definitely a new age. This was clearly established with Whitebeard's death, and Sengoku and Garp's retirement. They were all figureheads of the previous age, and even the Pirate King's bloodline has been extinguished. Whitebeard's declaration that OP exists ushered in a new era of Pirates, Sakazuki's heading up the Marines in what we're led to believe is a more aggressive direction. Basically as far as the world is concerned things have changed, pretty drastically I'd say.
For the characters, the old age has ended and a new one has begun. Whether or not we've seen anything new (yet!), there's clearly a new age in the story.
! http://v103.violet.fastwebserver.de/series/OnePiece/0581-003.png
It's definitely a new age. This was clearly established with Whitebeard's death, and Sengoku and Garp's retirement. They were all figureheads of the previous age, and even the Pirate King's bloodline has been extinguished. Whitebeard's declaration that OP exists ushered in a new era of Pirates, Sakazuki's heading up the Marines in what we're led to believe is a more aggressive direction. Basically as far as the world is concerned things have changed, pretty drastically I'd say.
For the characters, the old age has ended and a new one has begun. Whether or not we've seen anything new (yet!), there's clearly a new age in the story.
Yep, absolutely spot on there, fiber.
! http://v103.violet.fastwebserver.de/series/OnePiece/0581-003.png
It's definitely a new age. This was clearly established with Whitebeard's death, and Sengoku and Garp's retirement. They were all figureheads of the previous age, and even the Pirate King's bloodline has been extinguished. Whitebeard's declaration that OP exists ushered in a new era of Pirates, Sakazuki's heading up the Marines in what we're led to believe is a more aggressive direction. Basically as far as the world is concerned things have changed, pretty drastically I'd say.
For the characters, the old age has ended and a new one has begun. Whether or not we've seen anything new (yet!), there's clearly a new age in the story.
See, that's the mistake you are making.
It's the same era, but with new actors.
EEEEEEEH ?! I think it's a an amazing trilogy:ninja:
As for Marineford, I wouldn't have started random fights like Croc vs Mihawk, Smoker vs Boa and Mingo vs Croc. It's like they just stopped fighting at some point for no reason.
Having the new world captains and the fleet commanders fight instead (and lose) against the Schichibukais would have been more clever IMO.
The first Pirates movie is great, partly because Geoffrey Rush is a top tier actor and his role as Barbossa is so amazingly done (he's the only good part of the third, even if his motives are stupid). In the second movie, the only thing that's good is anything involving Davy Jones. Bill Nighy is an amazing actor, and he brings a lot of gravitas to that performance. Everything else though, especially everything involving Orlando Bloom and Kiera Knightley, is terrible. As far as I'm concerned, Kiera didn't even need to be in this movie. Still, it's a decent movie if just for the relationship between Johnny Depp, Davy Jones, and whoever it was that played Cutler Beckett. The third expands upon all the bad points of the second, without expanding on any of the good points. So yeah, not a big fan.
Back on point, I totally agree with you on Marineford. Some fights didn't have to be seen, and things were so chaotic and jumped around it was hard to get a bead on anyone.
See, that's the mistake you are making.
It's the same era, but with new actors.
I'm not sure I understand?
I'm not sure I understand?
He's basically saying that nothing has really changed apart from the personnel, and everything works exactly like it did before Marineford.
_"_Now! This is it! Now is the time to choose! Die and be free of pain or live and fight your sorrow! Now is the time to shape your stories! Your fate is in your hands!" - Auron
He's basically saying that nothing has really changed apart from the personnel, and everything works exactly like it did before Marineford.
Oh. Yeah, I don't think so.
The Great Age of Pirates? There's something that characterized it…it was pretty much balanced, like perfectly on a scale. It was like a chess game in a perfect stalemate. Nobody could really move against anybody. For the most part, the three main powers kept each other in check.
The capture and subsequent imprisonment of Ace was given a lot of focus by Oda. It was repeatedly referred to as an event–just the capture itself--that would change the very world itself. The capture of Ace broke that stalemate, it added another piece on the chessboard. Suddenly, with the events of Marineford, with multiple Shichibukai resigning their position or being kicked out, with one of the Yonko dead and Blackbeard taking his power (and later, territory), and finally the Supernovas, the Worst Generation, being let loose into the NW...
What I'm trying to say is, I don't agree with the idea that nothing has really changed apart from the personnel. Everything has changed. We will see it change even more when Luffy starts taking out some of the Shichibukai/Yonko, and also what roles the rest of the Supernovas will have in this regard (especially the Kid/Apoo/Hawkins Alliance, as well as Drake and Law)
Spot on, Rob. Thanks.
Lol no problem.
I speak fluent Darth by this point.
I do agree with you to a certain extent, up until this point we haven't seen things that are a whole lot different from before MF.
The major change is obviously the way things are working in The New World between 1) The Worst Generation and 2) Sakazuki's moving the marines into The New World.
While we haven't seen anything concrete, some rather different things have certainly been outlined for us.
It's a wait and see effort at this point.
See, that's the mistake you are making.
It's the same era, but with new actors.
No - Marineford signalled a huge shift in the One Piece world. Just because we haven't seen much about it yet, it's been strongly hinted at (eg, the Marines relocating their HQ to the New World) and will undoubtedly become more apparent as the series goes on.
Punk Hazard's landscape and an important part of Dressrosa's plot are consequences of Marineford.
Oh. Yeah, I don't think so.
The Great Age of Pirates? There's something that characterized it…it was pretty much balanced, like perfectly on a scale. It was like a chess game in a perfect stalemate. Nobody could really move against anybody. For the most part, the three main powers kept each other in check.
The capture and subsequent imprisonment of Ace was given a lot of focus by Oda. It was repeatedly referred to as an event–just the capture itself--that would change the very world itself. The capture of Ace broke that stalemate, it added another piece on the chessboard. Suddenly, with the events of Marineford, with multiple Shichibukai resigning their position or being kicked out, with one of the Yonko dead and Blackbeard taking his power (and later, territory), and finally the Supernovas, the Worst Generation, being let loose into the NW...
What I'm trying to say is, the idea that nothing has really changed apart from the personnel is fallacy. Everything has changed. We will see it change even more when Luffy starts taking out some of the Shichibukai/Yonko, and also what roles the rest of the Supernovas will have in this regard (especially the Kid/Apoo/Hawkins Alliance, as well as Drake and Law)
So the pieces will exchange themselfs further, staying within established borders.
Like Blackbeard taking down Whitebeard, Shichibukai being replaced, and Marine HQ re-established to the whole pre-timeskip strength.
You are telling me that the balance of the world has fallen apart, but that is not true. Supernovas are the only piece that can bring that change, but there has always been challengers to the strongest, Ace being the finest example.
Really. Nothing did change except of actors. All three super-powers remain in balance. Marines are ineffective as they has always been in New World, Yonkou are secure in their position, and Shichibukai's are doing whatever the fuck they want.
So the pieces will exchange themselfs further, staying within established borders.
Like Blackbeard taking down Whitebeard, Shichibukai being replaced, and Marine HQ re-established to the whole pre-timeskip strength.
You are telling me that the balance of the world has fallen apart, but that is not true. Supernovas are the only piece that can bring that change, but there has always been challengers to the strongest, Ace being the finest example.
Really. Nothing did change except of actors. All three super-powers remain in balance. Marines are ineffective as they has always been in New World, Yonkou are secure in their position, and Shichibukai's are doing whatever the fuck they want.
Ack, you're absolutely right about the balance of powers. I apologize, I was too hasty in my judgments. I wasn't seeing the situation with the three powers clearly, and was projecting things on the current situation based on conjecture and my own wishes.
Having said that, I still think the old era is over, and a new age has begun, and I think what I was trying to say is that the balance of the world will inevitably fall as time goes on because a new era has begun. The Yonko may be secure in their position, for now, but soon Luffy and the other Supernovas will go after them. Considering Kaido tried to expand his territory at the slightest chance he got, I can see Blackbeard wanting to get in on that action. I think most of us agree he'll probably be the one to kill Shanks.
So the pieces will exchange themselfs further, staying within established borders.
Like Blackbeard taking down Whitebeard, Shichibukai being replaced, and Marine HQ re-established to the whole pre-timeskip strength.
You are telling me that the balance of the world has fallen apart, but that is not true. Supernovas are the only piece that can bring that change, but there has always been challengers to the strongest, Ace being the finest example.
Really. Nothing did change except of actors. All three super-powers remain in balance. Marines are ineffective as they has always been in New World, Yonkou are secure in their position, and Shichibukai's are doing whatever the fuck they want.
Not really. Unlike Whitebeard, Blackbeard isn't going to be content at staying at the level of a Yonkou. He wants it all. That's a threat to the WG, the other Yonkous and pretty much the entire One Piece world and it's a massively destabilising ambition.
@Buggy's:
No - Marineford signalled a huge shift in the One Piece world. Just because we haven't seen much about it yet, it's been strongly hinted at (eg, the Marines relocating their HQ to the New World) and will undoubtedly become more apparent as the series goes on.
Have you seen anything suggesting that any side of the conflict is capable of creating any change?
Because little background noise "Marines are stronger! Blackbeard is a Yonkou!" means very little. It's just that: background, if you don't back it up with something.
I think the problem is that we've really only focused on the strawhats, and we have seen nothing from the rest of the world for the most part. I have a feeling once this arc is over, we will get a better idea of what's really changed. Also, I think it's a new age as the old pirates are basically irrelevant (Roger, Whitebeard, and Rayleigh) are moot, while others now have a chance to push through. I posted in the chapter section about how this current arc is going to be more about the chaos that is expected from the actions of the straw hats, and the worst generation overall, on the world. I'll have to come back later on the actual arc stuff. I don't think I'm prepared to debate the people on this thread.:ninja:
So the pieces will exchange themselfs further, staying within established borders.
Like Blackbeard taking down Whitebeard, Shichibukai being replaced, and Marine HQ re-established to the whole pre-timeskip strength.
You are telling me that the balance of the world has fallen apart, but that is not true. Supernovas are the only piece that can bring that change, but there has always been challengers to the strongest, Ace being the finest example.
Really. Nothing did change except of actors. All three super-powers remain in balance. Marines are ineffective as they has always been in New World, Yonkou are secure in their position, and Shichibukai's are doing whatever the fuck they want.
The Era changing doesn't necessitate as drastic a shift as you're outlining though.
Doflamingo is always talking about the New Age, and he's never said anything about such a drastic overhaul.
It's meant to be more about the focus of the players within the same system, seemingly.
The era of dreams is over, and now we have a bloodthirsty Yonko killing for DF powers, the problem children causing major incidents in The New World and The Marines now actively trying to take on The Yonko rather than just let me be.
It's definitely different.
@Buggy's:
Not really. Unlike Whitebeard, Blackbeard isn't going to be content at staying at the level of a Yonkou. He wants it all. That's a threat to the WG, the other Yonkous and pretty much the entire One Piece world and it's a massively destabilising ambition.
Blackbeards ambition… would be a little bit more threatning if we didn't see how easily it can be stopped, with Burgess.
Superpowers remaing in balance. There was nothing to suggest that Blackbeard can challenge either other Yonkou, or WG, and win. That all your wishful thinking.
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The Era changing doesn't necessitate as drastic a shift as you're outlining though.
Doflamingo is always talking about the New Age, and he's never said anything about such a drastic overhaul.
It's meant to be more about the focus of the players within the same system, seemingly.
The indeed, Oda and I have different ideas about what constitutes a change.
The era of dreams is over, and now we have a bloodthirsty Yonko killing for DF powers, the problem children causing major incidents in The New World and The Marines now actively trying to take on The Yonko rather than just let me be.
It's definitely different.
All informed exposition.
And Marines will not take down Yonkou, and you know it. There was only one incident worth mentioning involving Supernovas, and that was Kid sinking two ships of Big Mom.
And until I see Blackbeard Pirates doing something, I'm not buying the Devil Fruit hunt either. Them killing some no-name characters that we have never heard off is hardly impressive.
Blackbeards ambition… would be a little bit more threatning if we didn't see how easily it can be stopped, with Burgess.
Superpowers remaing in balance. There was nothing to suggest that Blackbeard can challenge either other Yonkou, or WG, and win. That all your wishful thinking.
Burgess wasn't defeated - he was outplayed in the game of the Colosseum. But that fact aside, Blackbeard has absolutely been set up as a character who can challenge the established order. The fact he has two (incredibly powerful) devil fruits is testament to his ability to pervert the 'natural order' of the world.
The tides have indeed not changed much besides characters in the world claiming it has, and Luffy and the supernova's steadily becoming a major influence on the balance as it is now. Marineford has not changed that much about it, besides Admiral and Yonko replacement. If Whitebeard or Kuzan and Sengoku weren't as easily replaced it would be a major change in balance.
@Buggy's:
Burgess wasn't defeated - he was outplayed in the game of the Colosseum. But that fact aside, Blackbeard has absolutely been set up as a character who can challenge the established order. The fact he has two (incredibly powerful) devil fruits is testament to his ability to pervert the 'natural order' of the world.
I never said he was defeated. Burgess was out-played, and Blackbeards ambition: Getting Mera-Mera no Mi, stopped. And it was easily done.
And double devil fruit means nothing if you have nothing to back it up with.
The indeed, Oda and I have different ideas about what constitutes a change.
Fair enough, but the changes we've heard of do fit with what we heard from Doffy about the new era.
And Marines will not take down Yonkou, and you know it. There was only one incident worth mentioning involving Supernovas, and that was Kid sinking two ships of Big Mom.
Whether the end game pans out or not, Sakazuki has still made some major changes from the sounds of it.
We heard at least about Law masterminding something called the "Rocky Port" incident, he also sent 100 hearts to the WG and became a Shichibukai, Drake actively attacked a Yonko commander, Bonney apparently escaped the World Government AGAIN, Hawkins mutilated Brownbeard who had just performed a coup after the death of WB, there are now at least 2 alliances put together to try and take down a Yonko, Kid has actively been sinking Big Mom's ships like you mentioned…yeah, there's been way more than one incident lol.
That's without us having heard anything from Bege or Urouge as well.
And until I see Blackbeard Pirates doing something, I'm not buying the Devil Fruit hunt either. Them killing some no-name characters that we have never heard off is hardly impressive.
..it's still unprecedented and new.
Once again, this isn't about the ultimate end of these changes.
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And double devil fruit means nothing if you have nothing to back it up with.
Oh this one I just have to hear.
_"_Now! This is it! Now is the time to choose! Die and be free of pain or live and fight your sorrow! Now is the time to shape your stories! Your fate is in your hands!" - Auron
Whether the end game pans out or not, Sakazuki has still made some major changes from the sounds of it.
It all depends on if does. Because if it doesn't, then how Sakazuki is different from Sengoku?
We heard at least about Law masterminding something called the "Rocky Port" incident, he also sent 100 hearts to the WG and became a Shichibukai, Drake actively attacked a Yonko commander, Bonney apparently escaped the World Government AGAIN, Hawkins mutilated Brownbeard who had just performed a coup after the death of WB, there are now at least 2 alliances put together to try and take down a Yonko, Kid has actively been sinking Big Mom's ships like you mentioned…yeah, there's been way more than one incident lol.
I do remember. You've said major incidents. I hardly consider most of those major in incidents, as far as New World is concerned.
And from what we saw thus far, it seems as if only force that will bring change are the Supernovas.
Goddamit, Marinefor is the greatest example of how to NOT capitalise on victory.
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Oh this one I just have to hear.
Hear what? The only reason Blackbeard Pirates are even alive right now is dumb luck. We haven't seen anything from them to show that they are competent in any way, since Blackbeard beaten Ace.
Dressrosa's Burgess performance is set on that precedence.
It all depends on if does. Because if it doesn't, then how Sakazuki is different from Sengoku?
…because he's doing things differently?
I do remember. You've said major incidents. I hardly consider most of those major in incidents, as far as New World is concerned.
And from what we saw thus far, it seems as if only force that will bring change are the Supernovas.
Goddamit, Marinefor is the greatest example of how to NOT capitalise on victory.
Ok, an incident does not need to be Marineford sized to be considered major, lol.
Hear what? The only reason Blackbeard Pirates are even alive right now is dumb luck. We haven't seen anything from them to show that they are competent in any way, since Blackbeard beaten Ace.
Dressrosa's Burgess performance is set on that precedence.
Woah woah woah, dumb luck?
That's fate, bro.
Seriously though, they were the catalyst for the war, defeated a Yonko Commander and eventually killed the Yonko himself, while also taking his world shattering power.
Burgess had a pretty good showing tbh. Oda made sure that he wasn't defeated outright to maintain his credibility.
_"_Now! This is it! Now is the time to choose! Die and be free of pain or live and fight your sorrow! Now is the time to shape your stories! Your fate is in your hands!" - Auron
…because he's doing things differently?
Okay.
How?
Woah woah woah, dumb luck?
That's fate, bro.
Seriously though, they were the catalyst for the war, defeated a Yonko Commander and eventually killed the Yonko himself, while also taking his world shattering power.
Burgess had a pretty good showing tbh. Oda made sure that he wasn't defeated outright to maintain his credibility.
They were catalyst for war, yes. And Blackbeard defeated Yonkou Commander while his men were completly incosequential to the whole thing, yes.
And killing half-dead Whitebeard, while almost losing your own captain to him is not really an achievement for me.
And it doesn't really matter if Burgess and Fujitora made a good showing. They represent two forces that we've been led to believe were the strongest new players in New World: Sakazuki's Marine HQ, and Yonkou Blackbeard. Not being beaten outright is not enough for threat that hyped.
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Ok, an incident does not need to be Marineford sized to be considered major, lol.
Yes, but at the same not every thing that supernovas do is to be considered major incident.
Hawkins defeating Brownbeard? Really?
Okay.
How?
Eh he moved Marine HQ into the New World to actively combat the Yonko.
Initiated a global conscription for recruit powerful new members like Fujitora, and made the Marines a much more powerful organisation as a result.
They were catalyst for war, yes. And Blackbeard defeated Yonkou Commander while his men were completly incosequential to the whole thing, yes.
And killing half-dead Whitebeard, while almost losing your own captain to him is not really an achievement for me.
And it doesn't really matter if Burgess and Fujitora made a good showing. They represent two forces that we've been led to believe were the strongest new players in New World: Sakazuki's Marine HQ, and Yonkou Blackbeard. Not being beaten outright is not enough for threat that hyped.
I'll give you it, we haven't seen nearly enough of the other BB pirates, but that'll come later, being the final villanous crew and all.
Teach was actually doing pretty well against WB until he started getting so goddamn cocky just because he'd absorbed a few quake punches.
Burgess and Fujitora are players that are going to have much more major roles towards the end of the series, at this point they don't need a major win, they just need to maintain credibility until later on while showing a little just now.
Fuji's shown that he's a powerhouse with his whole meteor shtick, an easy performance against Doffy and Law, as well as manhandling Zoro.
Burgess fought pretty equally with the second in command of the Revolutionary Army and was outsmarted rather than defeated.
Yes, but at the same not every thing that supernovas do is to be considered major incident.
Hawkins defeating Brownbeard? Really?
In terms of the power vacuum created after WB's death, yeah, that was a major incident.
_"_Now! This is it! Now is the time to choose! Die and be free of pain or live and fight your sorrow! Now is the time to shape your stories! Your fate is in your hands!" - Auron
Hear what? The only reason Blackbeard Pirates are even alive right now is dumb luck. We haven't seen anything from them to show that they are competent in any way, since Blackbeard beaten Ace.
Dressrosa's Burgess performance is set on that precedence.
So you like … believe the absolute worst about anything and anyone until shown otherwise? Sounds exhausting.
Blackbeard was powerful and had a powerful crew and thus managed to stay afloat in the new world. That's as much as can be said about that. We do not really know if anyone truly of worth tried to claim Whitebeard's territory, and if so, in what manner. Teach knew the territory well, and claimed it, through whatever means.
And now he's had two years to master his new devil fruit. And now he's a Yonkou. While not a certificate for strength, as in to say he's on par with the other three, it does show his stature.
The era's changed because the precious balance the Elder Stars are obsessed with is rotting away. The Marines are being proactive, the Warlords are going to be down two members again by the end of Dressrosa and who knows if they can fill the spots, and instead of two good Emperors and two evil Emperors, it's one good Emperor holding the tide against three monsters.
Eh he moved Marine HQ into the New World to actively combat the Yonko.
Initiated a global conscription for recruit powerful new members like Fujitora, and made the Marines a much more powerful organisation as a result.
Sure. And how does that effect the story, exactly? Marines are ineffective on the other side of Red Line, and they have new people being ineffective.
I'll give you it, we haven't seen nearly enough of the other BB pirates, but that'll come later, being the final villanous crew and all.
Teach was actually doing pretty well against WB until he started getting so goddamn cocky just because he'd absorbed a few quake punches.
Burgess and Fujitora are players that are going to have much more major roles towards the end of the series, at this point they don't need a major win, they just need to maintain credibility until later on while showing a little just now.
Fuji's shown that he's a powerhouse with his whole meteor shtick, an easy performance against Doffy and Law, as well as manhandling Zoro.
Burgess fought pretty equally with the second in command of the Revolutionary Army and was outsmarted rather than defeated.
A) You are bringing wishful thinking into this. Again.
B)
!
Absorbing one Quake and getting his ass handed to him. You are mistaking it for anime version.
C) Lack of ability to accomplish their goals is what kills their credibility as the threat, not lack of wins. It's not the same thing.
In terms of the power vacuum created after WB's death, yeah, that was a major incident.
If you say so. I'm not as convinced.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
So you like … believe the absolute worst about anything and anyone until shown otherwise? Sounds exhausting.
Blackbeard was powerful and had a powerful crew and thus managed to stay afloat in the new world. That's as much as can be said about that. We do not really know if anyone truly of worth tried to claim Whitebeard's territory, and if so, in what manner. Teach knew the territory well, and claimed it, through whatever means.
And now he's had two years to master his new devil fruit. And now he's a Yonkou. While not a certificate for strength, as in to say he's on par with the other three, it does show his stature.
So you like … automaticaly assume the most optimistic outcome is true?
Really now?
And besides, we don't if anyone even challenged him for this stuff. Who knows, maybe "fate" allowed it.
Fate, evidently, allows Blackbeard pirates to be incredibly effective as long as they are not seen.
There are a lot of things to see, and there is most likely an order to how things will be shown. Overall, we haven't seen much of a difference, but we will see it. I have a feeling that the similarities to Alabasta is what's really going to come to play here for the differences.
Alabasta was a big event at the time of the story, which shook some things up. Crocodile was a Shikibukai that was attempting to take over a kingdom, and obtain a weapon that could help him take down al his enemies. He ultimately failed, and the most we got was him losing his position and being put in Impel Down, with then seeing a meeting about replacing the lost member. That was while Sengoku was in charge.
This arc, Doflamingo has already taken over the kingdom, and has been in control for 10 years. He turned many big figures into toys, which everyone forgot about. He deals weapons to all these factions to keep wars from going on, has a scientist creating dangerous weapons to be sold to the highest bidder, and creates artificial zoans to supply to a Yonkou. He's basically everything Crocodile wanted. When Doflamingo falls, there are going to be greater consequences, and we will see more reactions from every where.
I think this will be where Darth should get some satisfaction, and we will see how Akainu differs so much. I actually wouldn't be surprised if Akainu just straight up executed Doflamingo. He will do that to create an example to the rest if they were backstab him. We would probably see the rest of them there because Akainu will require them to attend or else. We will see Buggy and the other new one. This would also probably start a shift in Fujitora's plan, as no new member would be made. We will probably meet the other Admiral, and have some more perspective on what they are up to.
Next, we would see the reactions of different Yonkou, which means more Shanks:wub: We will see reaction from Blackbeard and his response to what happened to Burgess, Big Mom will probably respond to both that and the attack by Sanji's group. Shanks will see that Luffy is making headway in the New World, and Kaido will be enraged. With this all four of them have their sights on Luffy. This will complete the transition from the WG being the looming enemy to the Yonkou being the major, looming enemies.
This is also where we will see what all the rest of the worse generation have been up to, seeing the other alliance making headway into their plans, and seeing what the others have been doing. We'll see X-drake with the Kaido part. We'll also get to see Laws crew and Sanji's group, seeing what they've been up to, which good chances are they will be returning to Dressrosa to pick up the crew.
Biggest thing is we will get more look at the revolutionaries. We will see how Dragon reacts to what Sabo did, as well as his son's big return. We'll probably learn about their future plans and goals, as well as meet some other important figures that could be important later on.
As far as showing Burgess, Sabo, and Fujitora off, they are here to show what is to come, and how they are connected. We see a little of what they can do, and what level they might be on. Sabo is capable of taking on Burgess and Fujitora. That means all three of them are around certain levels, and all three of them can take each other on to a degree. We most likely won't get much more beyond that.
The end of this arc will really start to show that it is a new era. The 2 years was a transition phase with some new figures coming into power, but now is where the worst generation starts the new era, which is throwing the world out of balance, so it can rebalance into something new.
Sure. And how does that effect the story, exactly? Marines are ineffective on the other side of Red Line, and they have new people being ineffective.
To be fair, we've seen pretty limited stuff from the Marines on this side of the line.
I'd say the Marines on Dressrosa have performed pretty well under unprecedented circumstances though.
A) You are bringing wishful thinking into this. Again.
B)
! http://img.batoto.net/comics/2014/06/17/o/read539f9ec82c56c/img000008.png
http://img.batoto.net/comics/2014/06/17/o/read539f9ec82c56c/img000009.pngAbsorbing one Quake and getting his ass handed to him. You are mistaking it for anime version.
Hahahah, yeah that's totally my bad, I WAS thinking of the extended anime version.
In terms of Teach we seem to get a lot more abstract accomplishments from him, rather than on panel up until this point.
ie Giving Shanks his scars, conquering WB's old territories and becoming a Yonko.
C) Lack of ability to accomplish their goals is what kills their credibility as the threat, not lack of wins. It's not the same thing.
Fuji seems to be accomplishing his goals just fine at this point.
Burgess got blind-sided by a really powerful and clever opponent, I wouldn't say that kills his credibility as a BB subordinate.
Had it happened to Blackbeard himself, then yeah, it might be an issue.
In general the BB's have accomplished their goals successfully on a regular basis.
If you say so. I'm not as convinced.
I suppose we'll just have to see this one differently.
_"_Now! This is it! Now is the time to choose! Die and be free of pain or live and fight your sorrow! Now is the time to shape your stories! Your fate is in your hands!" - Auron
To be fair, we've seen pretty limited stuff from the Marines on this side of the line.
I'd say the Marines on Dressrosa have performed pretty well under unprecedented circumstances though.
Yeah, but you consider everything except for outright overpowering and defeat as good perfomance.
Hahahah, yeah that's totally my bad, I WAS thinking of the extended anime version.
In terms of Teach we seem to get a lot more abstract accomplishments from him, rather than on panel up until this point.
ie Giving Shanks his scars, conquering WB's old territories and becoming a Yonko.
He loses in certain Sea King in that regard… :ninja:
More serious though, I'm less worried about Blackbeards because they will destroy Shanks and his crew. That's about as much given as possible.
I'm more worried for the marines.
Fuji seems to be accomplishing his goals just fine at this point.
Eh… what?
Yeah, but you consider everything except for outright overpowering and defeat as good perfomance.
He loses in certain Sea King in that regard… :ninja:
More serious though, I'm less worried about Blackbeards because they will destroy Shanks and his crew. That's about as much given as possible.
I'm more worried for the marines.
Eh… what?
You should be, cause once Luffy becomes Pirate King, they will be front, line, and center for them to get an ass kicking from a Pirate army.
