General 'Haki' Discussion

RamistaR

Arlong realised that Zoro was an exceptional person who might be a threat to him if allowed to live.
Tbh, I'd say Luffy and Sanji have both shown similar endurance and willingness to live/lack of fear of death just like Zoro in this example.

I personally don't think that whatever Asura was is necessarily indicative of Zoro later being able to develop the ability to freeze opponents with intimdation along the lines of CoC. That's just me though.

We still don't really know what the hell Asura actually was lol.

Yeah, Asura is the ability that I dislike the most in the entire serie. To the point that I don't even want to know how it works.
I think Sanji, Luffy and Zoro know how to enjoy a good fight, but not for the same reasons. Zoro is more bloodthirsty than the other two. And I think it has a spiritual impact on his enemies.

Redx

@RobZilla:

I doubt anyone else in the SH crew will have CoC and tbh I'd say that's absolutely the way to go.

It's meant to be this mythical ability that only 1 in a million people have, yet we're seeing quite a lot of second tier characters turning out to have the ability (Doffy, Chinjao, Ace). Added to the fact that we've yet to see anything of the crews of both Kaido and Big Mom (who will almost certainly possess CoC) I feel like the ability itself is being overused.

Also, Zoro and Sanji have already been assigned their Haki specialties (CoA and CoO respectively), tbh there isn't really any need for either of them to possess CoC in the first place.

Even in Roger's Crew Rayleigh had CoC Haki so having more than one Conqueror in the crew shouldn't be that big of a deal.

The ability is hardly "mythical" anymore seeing as how countless people in the New World have it. Similar to how Devil Fruits used to be somewhat "Mythical" in the Blue Seas but are totally common place on the Grandline.

Being assigned a "Haki specialty" doesn't meant that they lack the other types.

How could the ability be overused when we've barely seen much of what it can really do in the first place? I like the fact that the ability seems less special now. Being "special" and having character succeed because of it looks down on said character's hard work and makes light of human achievement.

Rivaille

@Redx:

Even in Roger's Crew Rayleigh had CoC Haki so having more than one Conqueror in the crew shouldn't be that big of a deal.

And Shanks too.
Same thing in WB crew, WB and Ace were CoC user.

Beowulf89

One out of a million sounds like a long shot, but we're dealing with the law of averages, here.

Alabasta has ten million people in it. That means ten million people were probably born with that power in the country. Will they ever awaken it? Probably not. But even if Alabasta is a large country for the Grandline, there are other, similarly large countries in the Grandline. Fishman Island had about 100,000 people in its GHETTO.

There's likely close to a billion people in the OP world. We've met less than a dozen CoC users.* It's just that the further into the Grandline you go, the higher the mark of "average" becomes.

*Luffy, Ace, Rayleigh, Hancock, Shanks, Chin Jao, Whitebeard and Doflamingo. Even if we assume Big Mom and Kaido, who we haven't seen use it, then we're still at an extreme minority of people born with the power.

RobZilla

@Redx:

Even in Roger's Crew Rayleigh had CoC Haki so having more than one Conqueror in the crew shouldn't be that big of a deal.

The ability is hardly "mythical" anymore seeing as how countless people in the New World have it. Similar to how Devil Fruits used to be somewhat "Mythical" in the Blue Seas but are totally common place on the Grandline.

Being assigned a "Haki specialty" doesn't meant that they lack the other types.

How could the ability be overused when we've barely seen much of what it can really do in the first place? I like the fact that the ability seems less special now. Being "special" and having character succeed because of it looks down on said character's hard work and makes light of human achievement.

Rayleigh and the Roger Pirates are somewhat of a special case I'd say. I wouldn't use that them as a measuring stick for acceptability, considering they were basically the strongest and most exceptional crew in history.

Exactly, the ability isn't mythical anymore, because it's been over distributed in my opinion. During the summit war, Luffy was marked as massive threat and shocked everyone, and a lot of that was simply to do with him displaying CoC. That's kind of lessened when so many other people display the ability.

I know that having a haki speciality doesn't omit from having the other types, but I'd prefer each member of the monster trio to move in that particular direction. there's just no need for Zoro or Sanji to have CoC in general.

We've seen what seems to be the main function of CoC quite a lot ie intimidation. I don't think it really needs many more applications than we've seen from it.

King Cannon

@Redx:

Even in Roger's Crew Rayleigh had CoC Haki so having more than one Conqueror in the crew shouldn't be that big of a deal.

The ability is hardly "mythical" anymore seeing as how countless people in the New World have it. Similar to how Devil Fruits used to be somewhat "Mythical" in the Blue Seas but are totally common place on the Grandline.

Being assigned a "Haki specialty" doesn't meant that they lack the other types.

How could the ability be overused when we've barely seen much of what it can really do in the first place? I like the fact that the ability seems less special now. Being "special" and having character succeed because of it looks down on said character's hard work and makes light of human achievement.

The thing about Rayleigh having CoC though is that he needed it for plot purposes, being Luffy's Haki teacher and all.

Rayleigh having it doesn't necessarily mean that Zoro will have it.

papeles

wow srly? 1 in a million people have CoC. How many million people a planet has? I don't get all the fuss around alot of people having CoC. Don't forget that 1/1 000 000 are born with it but not all "awaken" or have a spirit strong enough to use it properly. It wouldn't be surprising to see zoro and even sanji with it (my guess is that zoro alrdy has it and used it). Wouldnt be surprising also to see Garp with it, Dragon, BB, bigmom, kaidou, and few other.

RobZilla

@papeles:

wow srly? 1 in a million people have CoC. How many million people a planet has? I don't get all the fuss around alot of people having CoC. Don't forget that 1/1 000 000 are born with it but not all "awaken" or have a spirit strong enough to use it properly. It wouldn't be surprising to see zoro and even sanji with it (my guess is that zoro alrdy has it and used it). Wouldnt be surprising also to see Garp with it, Dragon, BB, bigmom, kaidou, and few other.

When would that have been?

desa

@RobZilla:

When would that have been?

He probably think that's what happened to Monet when she couldn't move.

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@RobZilla:

Exactly, the ability isn't mythical anymore, because it's been over distributed in my opinion. During the summit war, Luffy was marked as massive threat and shocked everyone, and a lot of that was simply to do with him displaying CoC. That's kind of lessened when so many other people display the ability.

I think the only time I was disapointed by someone having haki was Chinjao.

The thing with CoC is that it usually means a great future. And when the one who have it is someone who already done outrageous thing and is the pirate son of Dragon it is alarming. Pretty normal they wanted to kill that much for it.

papeles

@desa:

He probably think that's what happened to Monet when she couldn't move.

yea, kinda.

We don't know much about CoC. We just recently saw it "clashing" Don C vs Luffy. As armaments, it prolly has a few different uses (coA has hardening and so on). We simply can't be sitting here talking about something that wasn't explained fully but to me, CoC isn't that big of a deal. But you still need a strong spirit to use it properly andyou need training (as in, using it on specific targets and not everyone around).

All i can think of are all the main heads in the new world having it. You can't expect for it to have been popular in the blue seas or the first half of grand line. New world is where all the strong people go. From now on we should expect seeing alot of haki users and strong fruits running around.

1 in a million isn't that low also. We have around 7 Bil people today. Imagine that OP world has 1 billion only: thats 1000 CoC users. From those, imaginne u knowing only around 20 who can use it . I don't even think we gonna have 20 people having it on OP.
But i do immagine sanji, zoro, garp, dragon, BB, kaidou, BigMom and around 5 other chars having it till the series are over.

zxcv11791

@desa:

I think the only time I was disapointed by someone having haki was Chinjao.

The thing with CoC is that it usually means a great future. And when the one who have it is someone who already done outrageous thing and is the pirate son of Dragon it is alarming. Pretty normal they wanted to kill that much for it.

I think Coc just implies you have the potential to have a great future, rather than guaranteeing it. It leaves a bit of free will to choose your destiny. Chinjao was still the leader of Happo Nav and his bounty is still incredibly high. He does match the implication that CoC makes you a great leader and he was pretty strong as well. Also if Garp didn't knock the will out of him, Chinjao would of probably went on to become much more powerful/infamous.

desa

@zxcv11791:

I think Coc just implies you have the potential to have a great future, rather than guaranteeing it. It leaves a bit of free will to choose your destiny. Chinjao was still the leader of Happo Nav and his bounty is still incredibly high. He does match the implication that CoC makes you a great leader and he was pretty strong as well. Also if Garp didn't knock the will out of him, Chinjao would of probably went on to become much more powerful/infamous.

Chinjao just doesn't have the charisma or crazy confidence I expect from someone possessing it.

On the other hand I hope at least one of the emperor don't have it and that it will stay a symbolic thing rather than a superpower reserved to a few.

Md-Martin

I look at it this way. CoC is supposedly held by "one in a million". Most of the people we've seen with it have been in the New World. Out of the billions of people in the One Piece world only the strongest survive in the New World, or those who are hanging around the strongest. Makes sense why so many of these people would show up roughly around the same point in the story, because the main characters just reached a location seemingly only inhabited by those who either have great power, or those who work under those with great power.

desa

@zxcv11791:

I think Coc just implies you have the potential to have a great future, rather than guaranteeing it. It leaves a bit of free will to choose your destiny. Chinjao was still the leader of Happo Nav and his bounty is still incredibly high. He does match the implication that CoC makes you a great leader and he was pretty strong as well. Also if Garp didn't knock the will out of him, Chinjao would of probably went on to become much more powerful/infamous.

Chinjao just doesn't have the charisma or crazy confidence I expect from someone possessing it.

On the other hand I hope at least one of the emperor don't have it and that it will stay a symbolic thing rather than a superpower reserved to a few.

Md-Martin

This post is deleted!

gingerninja666

(shudders) I hate haki so much.

Since it pretty much means that I'll never have my dream of seeing another effective villain who isn't hyper skilled or tough. :( It's despair inducing for me.

King Cannon

@gingerninja666:

(shudders) I hate haki so much.

Since it pretty much means that I'll never have my dream of seeing another effective villain who isn't hyper skilled or tough. :( It's despair inducing for me.

I've personally had enough of overly cocky Logias.

gingerninja666

@King:

I've personally had enough of overly cocky Logias.

It was different than every villain needing to be legitly skilled and needing to train all the time. That was one of the things I liked about the series, dammit. Training wasn't the ONLY way to be legitimately dangerous. You could be clever. Or have a broken fruit. Or take advantage of the system and protect yourself with the strength of other people.

RobZilla

@gingerninja666:

It was different than every villain needing to be legitly skilled and needing to train all the time. That was one of the things I liked about the series, dammit. Training wasn't the ONLY way to be legitimately dangerous. You could be clever. Or have a broken fruit. Or take advantage of the system and protect yourself with the strength of other people.

Galdino, Perona and Buggy still fit those categories, Haki doesn't make a blind bit of difference.

papeles

@King:

I've personally had enough of overly cocky Logias.

Like Ace / enel were.
The problem is when you have skilled Logia users, like the admirals. They most surely used Observation to change their body in a way that they wouldnt get hit by haki users: Aokiji being hit by WB spear (he opened a hole around the spear) and Akainu when he got stuck by marco and vista after ace died, where he probably made 2 openings for both hits and complained about haki users wile not actually being hit.

LUFFYSMC GEAR 2ZND

@King:

I've personally had enough of overly cocky Logias.

Thank you, me too, since Smoker, (and his little speech), was introduced actually.

@zxcv11791:

I think Coc just implies you have the potential to have a great future, rather than guaranteeing it. It leaves a bit of free will to choose your destiny. Chinjao was still the leader of Happo Nav and his bounty is still incredibly high. He does match the implication that CoC makes you a great leader and he was pretty strong as well. Also if Garp didn't knock the will out of him, Chinjao would of probably went on to become much more powerful/infamous.

@desa:

Chinjao just doesn't have the charisma or crazy confidence I expect from someone possessing it.

On the other hand I hope at least one of the emperor don't have it and that it will stay a symbolic thing rather than a superpower reserved to a few.

I would think Zxcv11791's bolded comment explains "Chinjao's disappointing lacking", from your POV? That defeat by Garp changed everything, like drastically even taking part of Chinjao's will to live for something. Kinda like a much more direct of the impact Luffy's wins are supposed to have on his opponents.

Though I agree on the point with the Yonkou's. Ironically I think Kaidoh, and Big Mom are the most likely not to have it.

desa

@LUFFYSMC:

I would think Zxcv11791's bolded comment explains "Chinjao's disappointing lacking", from your POV? That defeat by Garp changed everything, like drastically even taking part of Chinjao's will to live for something. Kinda like a much more direct of the impact Luffy's wins are supposed to have on his opponents.

Well even in his flashback he leaves me with that feeling. Probably because of his obssession for his family treasure.
@LUFFYSMC:

Though I agree on the point with the Yonkou's. Ironically I think Kaidoh, and Big Mom are the most likely not to have it.

Why ironically? Shanks already have it and Blackbeard is the big bad.

Redx

@King:

The thing about Rayleigh having CoC though is that he needed it for plot purposes, being Luffy's Haki teacher and all.

Rayleigh having it doesn't necessarily mean that Zoro will have it.

Maybe but it appears Zoro is supposed to Mirror Rayleigh just as Luffy is supposed to mirror Roger. So I find it pretty likely that he'd have it.

vagabond87

I bought some volumes lately and I must say that CoA haki looks great on paper

It looks like when CoA hardened arm hits somebody, pieces of CoA armor are flying in the air.
I know that its most probably just an effect of clash but it looks very cool in fights- for example here

Also around Vergos fist when he uses CoA hardening it looks like some material gathers from air.

Cymelion

Yeah I think Zoro has been using CoC.

Mainly his moves that intimidate his opponents seem to follow the pattern of CoC but he seems to focus it into the opponent. Instead of Luffy who can AOE and ST with it.

My guess is someone is going to point it out eventually which will probably make the Sanji/Zoro fights/jealousy re-ignite.

papeles

@Cymelion:

Yeah I think Zoro has been using CoC.

Mainly his moves that intimidate his opponents seem to follow the pattern of CoC but he seems to focus it into the opponent. Instead of Luffy who can AOE and ST with it.

That's what i also think. He is the type of op char that never goes all out untill the very end, when he meets that one enemy that is hella strong. After the fight with cp9, he is always kinda intimidating his enemies in a solo way, unlike other CoC users who use the aoe burst. For what i've been watching, what he has been doing fits the CoC definition given by Ray.

Jabra

It wouldn't surprise me if Oda gives Zoro CoC, if only to push him further into the Rayleigh corner.

Ordinary

@vagabond87:

I bought some volumes lately and I must say that CoA haki looks great on paper

It looks like when CoA hardened arm hits somebody, pieces of CoA armor are flying in the air.
I know that its most probably just an effect of clash but it looks very cool in fights- for example here
https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/895x671q90/907/766732.jpg

Also around Vergos fist when he uses CoA hardening it looks like some material gathers from air.

But aren't those…...pieces of metal...?!:ninja:

Magi

Based off Rayleighs explanation Zoro should have it. It really wouldn't make sense if he didn't.

Redx

@gingerninja666:

It was different than every villain needing to be legitly skilled and needing to train all the time. That was one of the things I liked about the series, dammit. Training wasn't the ONLY way to be legitimately dangerous. You could be clever. Or have a broken fruit. Or take advantage of the system and protect yourself with the strength of other people.

Dude, this is a shounen battle manga. There are supposed to be crazy strong characters that the main character has to overcome.

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@RobZilla:

Rayleigh and the Roger Pirates are somewhat of a special case I'd say. I wouldn't use that them as a measuring stick for acceptability, considering they were basically the strongest and most exceptional crew in history.

Exactly, the ability isn't mythical anymore, because it's been over distributed in my opinion. During the summit war, Luffy was marked as massive threat and shocked everyone, and a lot of that was simply to do with him displaying CoC. That's kind of lessened when so many other people display the ability.

I know that having a haki speciality doesn't omit from having the other types, but I'd prefer each member of the monster trio to move in that particular direction. there's just no need for Zoro or Sanji to have CoC in general.

We've seen what seems to be the main function of CoC quite a lot ie intimidation. I don't think it really needs many more applications than we've seen from it.

The Roger pirates shouldn't be a special case in this regard. After all the Strawhat Pirates are going to become the next strongest pirate crew in history. Again, I see nothing wrong with having more than one CoC user on the Ship.

Whats it matter if it's not mythical? Seeing more people utilize the ability is actually interesting. I mean, could you imagine if Devil Fruits stayed "mythical" like they were in East Blue and we barely ever saw any Devil Fruit users? The series would be boring as fuck. Not to mention drastically less diverse.

Ok. But theres still a possibility that they'd gain/discover the ability.

The ability in itself is a massive threat though we're not even really sure why. Theres certainly no way this ability is feared because it can knock people out. Thats just stupid imo. It can obviously do far more than it's shown.

vagabond87

@Ordinary:

But aren't those…...pieces of metal...?!:ninja:

Lol

Though with sound effect and looks like CoA hardening gathers around arm from air- like with imbued CoA around arm - we have invisible armor but with concentrating all haki on surface of
skin or some weapon it gathers from around arms onto them in visible way.

The Franky Tank

@Redx:

Dude, this is a shounen battle manga. There are supposed to be crazy strong characters that the main character has to overcome.

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The Roger pirates shouldn't be a special case in this regard. After all the Strawhat Pirates are going to become the next strongest pirate crew in history. Again, I see nothing wrong with having more than one CoC user on the Ship.

Whats it matter if it's not mythical? Seeing more people utilize the ability is actually interesting. I mean, could you imagine if Devil Fruits stayed "mythical" like they were in East Blue and we barely ever saw any Devil Fruit users? The series would be boring as fuck. Not to mention drastically less diverse.

Ok. But theres still a possibility that they'd gain/discover the ability.

The ability in itself is a massive threat though we're not even really sure why. Theres certainly no way this ability is feared because it can knock people out. Thats just stupid imo. It can obviously do far more than it's shown.

I agree with what you said. If only Luffy's crew knew how to use it, then that would be one thing, but other people know how to use it. Luffy can now hit logia's no problem, but logia users will most likely be able to use haki to minimize damage. The powers people will have will also be trickier to counter, as we are seeing with Doflamingo. Overall, Haki is a power that is necessary to be one of the strongest, plus for the more straightforward fighter to have a chance against characters.

RamistaR

@vagabond87:

I bought some volumes lately and I must say that CoA haki looks great on paper

It looks like when CoA hardened arm hits somebody, pieces of CoA armor are flying in the air.
I know that its most probably just an effect of clash but it looks very cool in fights- for example here
https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/895x671q90/907/766732.jpg

Also around Vergos fist when he uses CoA hardening it looks like some material gathers from air.

You should buy more volumes, I'm pretty sure that Oda uses this effects for many things.

vagabond87

@RamistaR:

You should buy more volumes, I'm pretty sure that Oda uses this effects for many things.

You mean? Do you have perhaps some other volumes with that effect being present in different scenes without haki usage?

Updload some pics if you have those

RamistaR

@vagabond87:

You mean? Do you have perhaps some other volumes with that effect being present in different scenes without haki usage?

Updload some pics if you have those

No problem, but I will try to do that in an hour or so.

vagabond87

@RamistaR:

No problem, but I will try to do that in an hour or so.

16 characters of Awesome :happy:

RamistaR

@vagabond87:

16 characters of Awesome :happy:

I only checked Punk Hazard.
-Pieces of armor flying in the air.

!

!
Luffy's jet stamp

!

!
-As for the materials gathering from the air, I think it's only an effect you can see in many panel without background like the bottom panel with Mocha.

!

Magi

@RamistaR:

I only checked Punk Hazard.
-Pieces of armor flying in the air.

To be fair they were actually using CoA most of those pics

RamistaR

@Magi:

To be fair they were actually using CoA most of those pics

Yeah it might be related, my first intention was to find picture without Vergo.

Rivaille

Same effect without haki:

!

vagabond87

Mostly I mean this panel when Vergo uses CoA hardening and it looks like black meterial is forming from air with specific sound effect

and then when Vergo hits Law with that fist we see some more than usual pieces of something in the air. So it might be CoA haki punch graphical effect of sorts.

I am just pointing at what is visible on panels, thats all.

Tangaroa

A thought on Zoro and CoC
Zoro developed CoC on his own and while developing other forms may have come naturally while training under Mihawk.
But we know haki is awakened under situations of extreme stress and just before the timeskip what Kuma put him through can only be described as extreme.
Kuma seems to have done everything he could to prepare the Straw Hats for their time ahead and just maybe what he put Zoro through was meant to elevate any potential haki if it was possible, to give Luffy as strong a right hand man as possible.

RobZilla

@Redx:

The Roger pirates shouldn't be a special case in this regard. After all the Strawhat Pirates are going to become the next strongest pirate crew in history. Again, I see nothing wrong with having more than one CoC user on the Ship.

Whats it matter if it's not mythical? Seeing more people utilize the ability is actually interesting. I mean, could you imagine if Devil Fruits stayed "mythical" like they were in East Blue and we barely ever saw any Devil Fruit users? The series would be boring as fuck. Not to mention drastically less diverse.

Ok. But theres still a possibility that they'd gain/discover the ability.

The ability in itself is a massive threat though we're not even really sure why. Theres certainly no way this ability is feared because it can knock people out. Thats just stupid imo. It can obviously do far more than it's shown.

Hmm, I get what you're saying.

I'm just wary of over explanations of previously abstract concepts.

Basically, I don't want a midicholian force count thing lol

It'll be interesting to see if Scopper Gaban has CoC when he reappears.

desa

@Redx:

The ability in itself is a massive threat though we're not even really sure why. Theres certainly no way this ability is feared because it can knock people out. Thats just stupid imo. It can obviously do far more than it's shown.

Or since people who possess it usually becomes big shots among big shots, it is always a bad sign when your enemy possess no matter how weak he currently is.

Redx

@desa:

Or since people who possess it usually becomes big shots among big shots, it is always a bad sign when your enemy possess no matter how weak he currently is.

Well yeah I've considered that but I just can't help but feel that theres more to it than that.

Razh

There's probably more, seeing how Shanks was causing damage to Moby Dick with his Haki. Without even trying especially hard.

Beowulf89

@Redx:

Well yeah I've considered that but I just can't help but feel that theres more to it than that.

The fact that it puts a "you must be this tough to even consider fighting me" sticker on you doesn't do enough? That you'd need to have that level of guy concentrated into a single force to even be able to fight near the guy? One of the major strengths of the World Government is the sheer numbers that they can level against their enemies. When Luffy let out his Conquering at Marineford, dozens of Marine HQ's "elite" were knocked out. When he did it at Fishman Island he took out 50,000 people. Imagine doing that against a ship's crew. Naval combat would be trivialized and the enemy crew would be lucky if they were able to survive getting back to a safe harbor, let alone being able to fight back against a raid.

Color of Conqueror could enable you to force your way through a naval blockade or a Buster Call. It can let you perform a bloodless coup, go into Marijoise, free all the slaves and burn the city around the Celestial Dragons while they foam at the mouth. And unlike Devil Fruit powers, you can't slap a special stone around the person in order to cut off their Haki.

Redx

@Razh:

There's probably more, seeing how Shanks was causing damage to Moby Dick with his Haki. Without even trying especially hard.

That reminds me…..

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@Beowulf89:

The fact that it puts a "you must be this tough to even consider fighting me" sticker on you doesn't do enough? That you'd need to have that level of guy concentrated into a single force to even be able to fight near the guy? One of the major strengths of the World Government is the sheer numbers that they can level against their enemies. When Luffy let out his Conquering at Marineford, dozens of Marine HQ's "elite" were knocked out. When he did it at Fishman Island he took out 50,000 people. Imagine doing that against a ship's crew. Naval combat would be trivialized and the enemy crew would be lucky if they were able to survive getting back to a safe harbor, let alone being able to fight back against a raid.

Color of Conqueror could enable you to force your way through a naval blockade or a Buster Call. It can let you perform a bloodless coup, go into Marijoise, free all the slaves and burn the city around the Celestial Dragons while they foam at the mouth. And unlike Devil Fruit powers, you can't slap a special stone around the person in order to cut off their Haki.

That makes perfect sense. Maybe it's just my own wishful thinking but I'd still like to see more from this ability rather than simply knocking people out.

vagabond87

Also maybe it is how Doflamingo broke out of Aokijis haki - with CoC blast

If Shanks haki can damage Moby Dick then why Doflamingos cant break some icing on his body?

Razh

Yeah, it's possible. I remember discussing it with someone a while ago.