The only thing the Ope Ope no Mi can't remove…
...sexual torment.
This thread took a weird turn.. I feel bad for him.. with Vergo's "hardening".. it's safe to say he broke the Law in more ways than one..
One Piece Chapter 740 - Please!!!
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Ah, so you start talking with somebody totally unrelated with the situation at end about something totally unrelated, because you don't like him? That makes totally sense. NO! It doesn't.
How was Doula Mongo unrelated to the situation?
Law wasn't badmouthing Doula for no reason. That was the very opening for his speech about gears at the end of the chapter. He just defeated Vergo before continuing it.
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How was Doula Mongo unrelated to the situation?
Law wasn't badmouthing Doula for no reason. That was the very opening for his speech about gears at the end of the chapter. He just defeated Vergo before continuing it.
Are you saying that when you're fighting against an enemy, talking with other in the phone is totally related? And a victory speech about how the defeat of the guy in front of you is a certainty and how he was overconfident and that he will stop making his stupid laugh?
Now, you're gonna say that Dofla talking with Vergo in the Den Den Mushi, while fighting(dodging) Baby 5, was totally related because later he sent her to Punk Hazard.Of course Law badmouthing Doula had a reason, if it didn't than it wouldn't make any sense, and Vergo wouldn't get angry. The continuation of his speech just shows that Law had already planned from the beginning doing that.
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I think Vergo just kept pulling down his pants everytime he tried to talk to girls.
He's not cool, calm and collected at all. He's just shellshocked from teenage humiliation.
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@Panda:
Actually, it can. Think about it, was getting his heart back, by itself, really enough to explain him going from being completely destroyed by Vergo, to taking him out in a single blow? Of course not. Rather, while Smoker was fighting Vergo, Law realized that he could use his power to move that torment, which was creating such a heavy psychological block for him fighting Vergo; after, with that gone, and of course his heart back, he was able to easily demonstrate his true superiority.
Of course, Law's power can't really get rid of things, simply move them around, so that psychological torment from his abuse at Vergo's hands had to go somewhere. Where? Well, I believe if you think about recent events a little, it becomes quite clear. I'm talking, of course, about Usopp, whose cowardice has been horribly exacerbated by this sudden, repressed feeling of trauma he now feels, one he can't even pinpoint the cause of.
My God.
You're good, Panda.
Startlingly good.
Although now I'm just wondering if Kuma would be able to push out sexual torment like he did with Luffy's pain lol.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
This thread took a weird turn.. I feel bad for him.. with Vergo's "hardening".. it's safe to say he broke the Law in more ways than one..
Lol it may have taken a weird turn, but you're keeping up just fine.
Beautiful.
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Are you saying that when you're fighting against an enemy, talking with other in the phone is totally related? And a victory speech about how the defeat of the guy in front of you is a certainty and how he was overconfident and that he will stop making his stupid laugh?
Now, you're gonna say that Dofla talking with Vergo in the Den Den Mushi, while fighting(dodging) Baby 5, was totally related because later he sent her to Punk Hazard.Of course Law badmouthing Doula had a reason, if it didn't than it wouldn't make any sense, and Vergo wouldn't get angry. The continuation of his speech just shows that Law had already planned from the beginning doing that.
Are you saying that Law predicted exactly how Vergo would react? That he would become huge and attack him head on if he simply called Doula Mongo "overconfident"? And that he would fall victim to his attack because of that (even though he could have approached this in a different way like, how you pointed out, using Soru or some other shit)? There was no guarantee that any of those things would happen.
Law wanted to send a message to Doula. That wasn't a victory speech, but rather a warning.
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You're looking to things wrongly. The heart was an advantage for Vergo and a Disadvantage to Law, because of that Vergo used it, Law tried to get it back, and Vergo nullified that attempt(it wasn't like he was hurried! It was never showed anything like hurry in Vergo).
you are the one who said
If you had a way of total defeating your opponent without any effort, why wouldn't you use it?
then u say vergo could avoid law's sword and defeat him but he chose to act cocky and take risk of being cut cos he was confident of his haki!!
ur contradicting yourself here , if he really is cocky and confident he wouldn't even use this advantage and he would play fair from the beginning
but he didn't cos he's not that stupid , he knew that law would be a trouble if he got his heart that's why he was pissed off when it happened
it's that simpleall this was to just prove that vergo was acting cocky that's why he lost , it doesn't matter how he acted
u can chose to believe whatever u want about how he acted , it doesn't change the fact that it was a fair fight
and u can't guarantee he wouldn't act the same way every timeAh, so you start talking with somebody totally unrelated with the situation at end about something totally unrelated, because you don't like him? That makes totally sense. NO! It doesn't. Law was fighting against Vergo and had got his heart back,it only removed the disadvantage of Vergo hurting Law heart. Vergo after seeing that he didn't changed his attitude in the least. But Law instead of trying defeating Vergo, or talking with him, said "I know you're listening Doflamingo" and started badmouthing him(Doflamingo)! And ignoring Vergo. Is not hard to see that he was trying to do something. Even Doflamingo says "Aren't you pissing off Vergo, who's right in front of you!!?" :
if there was a reason after law's speech then it was that he knew that vergo is done "and that's exactly what law said"
he was the one acting overconfident here not vergo -
My God.
You're good, Panda.
Startlingly good.
What can I say, Oda's level 17 secrets have nothing on me.
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People should just stop using "overconfidence" as an excuse for a character's defeat. Mentality is an important factor in fights.
Also, they should stop with the "if there was a rematch, things would've been different". It's a pointless assumption.
It seemed pretty clear that Oda wanted us to believe that Law > Vergo, as that would symbolize how mistaken Doula and Vergo were about Law and that Law himself was able to surpass his own limitations towards Vergo, both physically and mentally.
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@Panda:
What can I say, Oda's level 17 secrets have nothing on me.
Oh my god, it started spreading.
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vergo underestimated law the whole time and law badmouthed him + dofla to make him mad and go berserk. these made vergo charged at law without even having a thought to defend/dodge law's attack. law's being smart.
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how long do you think the law flashback is going to be
i think it will start out with doflamingo's past with the celestial dragons and then segue into his expedition to West Blue and subsequent meeting of a young Law
i feel like there's so much possible material there; it could easily take like 10 or 15 chapters
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Are you saying that Law predicted exactly how Vergo would react? That he would become huge and attack him head on if he simply called Doula Mongo "overconfident"? And that he would fall victim to his attack because of that (even though he could have approached this in a different way like, how you pointed out, using Soru or some other shit)? There was no guarantee that any of those things would happen.
Law wanted to send a message to Doula. That wasn't a victory speech, but rather a warning.
Did you read the image that I put in my previous post? It seems you didn't! I put it again:
Did you noticed what Dofla said? "Aren't you pissing off Vergo, Who's Right in front of you!? Way Back Then …!! Don't you remember what happened then!? What happened when you enraged him!? Laughing Traumatic wasn't It!= So easily forgotten the True Terror of Vergo!! His Haki will completely Block even your Chopping ability!! You have no Hope of Matching Him in Power Either!!"
Now tell me how Law predicted what Vergo would do? It is said by Doflamingo! And isn't hard to think that if you talk shit to your opponent and he get angry he will not think very well and do smart attack, but will be more direct. That is a reason why you make your opponent angry! Added that Law already had experience with Vergo and that he knew that Vergo and Doflamingo were being Overconfident(this was explicitly told by him), is easy to see that he knew that when Vergo got in his ultimate form(Haki up) he would just attack directly without thinking in anything else(His Haki would block Law ability and he would win Law in Power).
Note, Law could possible win against Vergo even if he did something different, but in that case it wouldn't be as easy has it was, probably would be a even battle. Well, Law his known for not being very good physically, so probably there he would have a disadvantage. -
I never like how that fight turned out in the end. Vergo shouldn't have been that stupid. Maybe Law's flashback might justify that kind of behavior (if we see just what the hell happened) but until that, it's just plot induced stupidity.
It's something I would bitch about if I saw it in Bleach.
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vergo is a hot head and law knows that. that's why law provoked him and dofla to make vergo mad and charged at law without even thinking. law's smart.
king cannon said that mental is important in a fight, vergo lacks that because he keeps underestimating law and law take advantage of that (and the fact that vergo is a hot head).
law may not be stronger than vergo but he can take advatages of his enemies. remember what monet said. strenght isnt the only thing that matters in a fight. so it's possible that vergo > law in terms of strenght but law still wins.
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I wonder if, like tekkai a full-bodied CoA impedes one's movements. Highly doubt it though.
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you are the one who said
then u say vergo could avoid law's sword and defeat him but he chose to act cocky and take risk of being cut cos he was confident of his haki!!
ur contradicting yourself here , if he really is cocky and confident he wouldn't even use this advantage and he would play fair from the beginning
but he didn't cos he's not that stupid , he knew that law would be a trouble if he got his heart that's why he was pissed off when it happened
it's that simpleall this was to just prove that vergo was acting cocky that's why he lost , it doesn't matter how he acted
u can chose to believe whatever u want about how he acted , it doesn't change the fact that it was a fair fight
and u can't guarantee he wouldn't act the same way every timeif there was a reason after law's speech then it was that he knew that vergo is done "and that's exactly what law said"
he was the one acting overconfident here not vergoWhat as being overconfident has to do with giving more possibilities to your enemy? Nothing. Are you talking of all the other stories were the enemy has a super advantage, is overconfident and because of this he gives every opportunity to the good guy to win, almost begging for him to defeat him?
Play fair? What are you talking? Sport fair? Equality of situation between opponents? Just because you're cocky doesn't mean you don't defeat your enemy with the advantage you have against him. The opposite, you get even more confident!
You're saying that he should react in some way(fighting without handicaps between them) and saying that I'm contradicting myself, because of the way you say he should act. Is not a believe that Vergo was overconfident! He shows it over and over again, even Law says it! You're the one totally removing that possibility, because then you don't understand why Vergo lost so easily.
And no he wasn't pissed off when Law got his heart back, he was pissed because Smoker tricked him!!
You're even saying that Trafalgar Law is wrong, because he says that Doflamingo was overconfident, thinking that Vergo could handle both him and Luffy(and his crew).
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And your saying that Doflamingo his wrong too, because he said the reason why Vergo was angry. Unless you're saying that Doflamingo was totally off in his prediction and it was totally coincidence the fact that Vergo got angry when he told, and that Vergo made his ultimate form when he told it too.
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You're saying that Law and Doflamingo, both were totally wrong, but for some reason things worked how they said it?
Vergo all throughout the arc called Law brat and ordered manners, but he was so afraid of him, because you say it?! It was never showed a sign of concern of his part, but I'm the one making stupid justifications?
Here one of the times he calls Law brat and the first time he hears San from Law mouth
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Now, show me evidence that Vergo was afraid or hurried!
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Did you read the image that I put in my previous post? It seems you didn't! I put it again:
http://img.batoto.net/comics/2012/12/01/o/read50b9f7f76c4ca/img000015.png
Did you noticed what Dofla said? "Aren't you pissing off Vergo, Who's Right in front of you!? Way Back Then …!! Don't you remember what happened then!? What happened when you enraged him!? Laughing Traumatic wasn't It!= So easily forgotten the True Terror of Vergo!! His Haki will completely Block even your Chopping ability!! You have no Hope of Matching Him in Power Either!!"
Now tell me how Law predicted what Vergo would do? It is said by Doflamingo! And isn't hard to think that if you talk shit to your opponent and he get angry he will not think very well and do smart attack, but will be more direct. That is a reason why you make your opponent angry! Added that Law already had experience with Vergo and that he knew that Vergo and Doflamingo were being Overconfident(this was explicitly told by him), is easy to see that he knew that when Vergo got in his ultimate form(Haki up) he would just attack directly without thinking in anything else(His Haki would block Law ability and he would win Law in Power).
Note, Law could possible win against Vergo even if he did something different, but in that case it wouldn't be as easy has it was, probably would be a even battle. Well, Law his known for not being very good physically, so probably there he would have a disadvantage.vergo is a hot head and law knows that. that's why law provoked him and dofla to make vergo mad and charged at law without even thinking. law's smart.
king cannon said that mental is important in a fight, vergo lacks that because he keeps underestimating law and law take advantage of that (and the fact that vergo is a hot head).
law may not be stronger than vergo but he can take advatages of his enemies. remember what monet said. strenght isnt the only thing that matters in a fight. so it's possible that vergo > law in terms of strenght but law still wins.
You know, the simple fact that Law was able to bypass Vergo's CoA should be enough of a hint about who's stronger.
You can argue all you want about how Vergo could have dodged with Sorugeppotekkai, how Law's Countershark didn't work on him, how being a retard made Vergo an easy target. In the end, the message is that Law is at least as strong as Vergo.
Also, saying that Law isn't physically strong is an assumption.
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…you really have created quite the story from very, very little though lol.
I'd just be interested to hear how exactly you created this whole very specific scenario from essentially Doflamingo implying that Law used to be terrified of Vergo.
First thing is Laws reaction to when he first meet up Vergo on punk hazard, his utter shock and kind of fear. Second is fact that Vergo said something about Law not being capable of hiding anything from adults- those words made Law go "!!!!!" and veins in his eyes started to pop out lol so it must have been same words that he heard around time when he was traumatized in past by Vergo.
Oda cant show us Law being molested - also its not funny subject people, its shitty to joke about it if some of you are adults or already have families- so Law will probably be shown to get physically beaten by Vergo in past and maybe there will be somebody killed as part of Laws trauma. As Vergo was capable of giving slight crack to thinner bone of Sanjis leg he is proven monster in durability so him beating up kid ends up with broken body for Law(yes I know it was years ago but Vergo was plenty strong even back then as 3 Seats 10 years ago were enough to beat whole dressrosa army).Vergo also has "teacher" theme to him - his bamboo thing is resemling pointer of a teacher, he also demands respect as one- with his anger over lack of -san from Law. His line that I mentioned earlier about Law not being able to keep secrets what is he doing for adults eyes is also like words of a teacher. Kids in shitty situations in some places around world quite a time ago gotten hit with pointer to hands, arms. Being hit by Vergo in any form has to end badly for a kid.
Hiding secret from adults- those words point towards Law hiding some activity from Doflamingo and Vergo - in the past. What kid could have hidden ? Something connected to activity of big guys- some cargo, some animal, some person who knows. As for Law angering Vergo maybe it was not with "act" of hiding something but with what he was saying to Vergo at that time. Vergo seem to have very short temper when it comes to acting and at same time he seems to be very cold, heartless individual. Very brutal when it comes to fighting as he is CQC fighter and shown no remorse for order of Doffy to kill Law in way that will make him sorry he was ever born.
If something is uncovered then sorry, thats about whole explanation I will give. If you were really interested and didnt just thrown that line because because.
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I don't understand why Oda separated Usopp and Robin, weren't they together last chapter? Then why is Robin wondering where Usopp was? Shouldn't she have seen him darting away?
Last chapter while Usopp is talking to Leo we can clearly see that Robin is no longer with him. Robin goes off on her own at some point, presumably to go help the Tontatta that were still trying to attack Sugar; she arrives, tries to help, and is turned in to a toy.
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Also, saying that Law isn't physically strong is an assumption.
He's good at taking a punch atleast. But lifting houses and the like seems to be out of his skillset.
Oda cant show us Law being molested - also its not funny subject people, its shitty to joke about it if some of you are adults or already have families-
Producing joy and merriment out of something awful seems like it'd be a perfectly human reflex.
I know for a fact i'd go crazy if humor was only reserved for specific, acceptable, things.
But in case y'know someone from general is reading this. Honk honk
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how long do you think the law flashback is going to be
i think it will start out with doflamingo's past with the celestial dragons and then segue into his expedition to West Blue and subsequent meeting of a young Law
i feel like there's so much possible material there; it could easily take like 10 or 15 chapters
Considering the length of even the most relevant flashbacks up till now, and the fact that the REAL Dressrosa flashback still needs to take place (the one that finally puts Kyros into the picture and ties everything togheter nicely), I think the Law/Dofla/Cora-san flshback is going to take from 5 to 8 chapters, and highly doubting even going that far. 5-7 more likely.
Oda lately tends to completely cut all the in-betweens and "fillers", for better and for worse, so anything not totally relevant will be cut-off from that flashback, imho.
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First thing is Laws reaction to when he first meet up Vergo on punk hazard, his utter shock and kind of fear. Second is fact that Vergo said something about Law not being capable of hiding anything from adults- those words made Law go "!!!!!" and veins in his eyes started to pop out lol so it must have been same words that he heard around time when he was traumatized in past by Vergo.
Oda cant show us Law being molested - also its not funny subject people, its shitty to joke about it if some of you are adults or already have families- so Law will probably be shown to get physically beaten by Vergo in past and maybe there will be somebody killed as part of Laws trauma. As Vergo was capable of giving slight crack to thinner bone of Sanjis leg he is proven monster in durability so him beating up kid ends up with broken body for Law(yes I know it was years ago but Vergo was plenty strong even back then as 3 Seats 10 years ago were enough to beat whole dressrosa army).Vergo also has "teacher" theme to him - his bamboo thing is resemling pointer of a teacher, he also demands respect as one- with his anger over lack of -san from Law. His line that I mentioned earlier about Law not being able to keep secrets what is he doing for adults eyes is also like words of a teacher. Kids in shitty situations in some places around world quite a time ago gotten hit with pointer to hands, arms. Being hit by Vergo in any form has to end badly for a kid.
Hiding secret from adults- those words point towards Law hiding some activity from Doflamingo and Vergo - in the past. What kid could have hidden ? Something connected to activity of big guys- some cargo, some animal, some person who knows. As for Law angering Vergo maybe it was not with "act" of hiding something but with what he was saying to Vergo at that time. Vergo seem to have very short temper when it comes to acting and at same time he seems to be very cold, heartless individual. Very brutal when it comes to fighting as he is CQC fighter and shown no remorse for order of Doffy to kill Law in way that will make him sorry he was ever born.
If something is uncovered then sorry, thats about whole explanation I will give. If you were really interested and didnt just thrown that line because because.
Firstly, on the subject of making a joke about molesation, either everything is ok to joke about or nothing is ok to joke about in my opinion.
Secondly, I'm pretty sure that Vergo was referring to the fact that Law was sneaking around behind Doffy's back at that exact point on PH. He was basically saying we used to be your superiors, did you really think you could pull one over on us?
So yeah, I think you're running way, way past the point that Vergo was actually making with that comment ie a statement about what was happening at the present time, not some far flung deep meaning comment going back to Law's previous tenure under Doflamingo.
This is kind of backed up by the fact that until very recently, Doflamingo was still pretty shocked that Law betrayed him. If Law had a history of previous skulduggery, then there's no way we'd have seen that reaction out of him.
Also I'm not really seeing a teacher theme coming from vergo tbh, well, not from carrying some bamboo and wanting to be addressed properly by a former subordinate.
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You know, the simple fact that Law was able to bypass Vergo's CoA should be enough of a hint about who's stronger.
You can argue all you want about how Vergo could have dodged with Sorugeppotekkai, how Law's Countershark didn't work on him, how being a retard made Vergo an easy target. In the end, the message is that Law is at least as strong as Vergo.
Also, saying that Law isn't physically strong is an assumption.
The message was that strength wise(force) Vergo is stronger, but a fight is not only that(A fight is not only power levels), and in the end Law was "stronger" because of all of his skill set, having a slash that can even cut Vergo Haki and using it wisely.
Note, that Doflamingo against Law was similar, Law started loosing(Well it was against Fujitora as well, but we can call Fujitora the "Law heart" of Dressrossa), than he get up again and in the next battle he tries to cut Doflamingo head of, but unfortunately Doflamingo didn't underestimated him and his specialty is dodging and agility(has was shown time and times again: Against Oars Junior, Against Baby 5, Against Sanji), so he dodge it, after that was simply dodging and kicking Law ass.
who said that Law wasn't physically strong? He just isn't as strong has Vergo and Smoker, that was showed in both of the fights. In the fight against Smoker, Smoker had the total upper hand against Law, but Law used his smartness and his powers to win. Against Vergo was the same thing. He couldn't evade nor defend a Soru, he took the blow without any defense, and a kick sent him totally flying.
He can be strong, but he certainly isn't a physical fighter! -
The message was that strength wise(force) Vergo is stronger, but a fight is not only that(A fight is not only power levels), and in the end Law was "stronger" because of all of his skill set, having a slash that can even cut Vergo Haki and using it wisely.
Note, that Doflamingo against Law was similar, Law started loosing(Well it was against Fujitora as well, but we can call Fujitora the "Law heart" of Dressrossa), than he get up again and in the next battle he tries to cut Doflamingo head of, but unfortunately Doflamingo didn't underestimated him and his specialty is dodging and agility(has was shown time and times again: Against Oars Junior, Against Baby 5, Against Sanji), so he dodge it, after that was simply dodging and kicking Law ass.
who said that Law wasn't physically strong? He just isn't as strong has Vergo and Smoker, that was showed in both of the fights. In the fight against Smoker, Smoker had the total upper hand against Law, but Law used his smartness and his powers to win. Against Vergo was the same thing. He couldn't evade nor defend a Soru, he took the blow without any defense, and a kick sent him totally flying.
He can be strong, but he certainly isn't a physical fighter!I know right, I totally agree with your last statement, people say that the 3 executives are much stronger then vergo but I disagree so much, I think a fight between luffy and vergo ( I assume luffy is stronger then law) would drag out way more then law vs vergo.
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who said that Law wasn't physically strong? He just isn't as strong has Vergo and Smoker, that was showed in both of the fights. In the fight against Smoker, Smoker had the total upper hand against Law, but Law used his smartness and his powers to win. Against Vergo was the same thing. He couldn't evade nor defend a Soru, he took the blow without any defense, and a kick sent him totally flying.
He can be strong, but he certainly isn't a physical fighter!So being sent flying by a kick means a character isn't physically strong?
Characters are sent flying several times when hit hard enough. That's standard Shonen physics at work. Hell, Sanji sent Vergo flying with a kick too.
Also, saying that Law couldn't defend/evade a Soru is also wrong. Law wasn't trying to dodge attacks, he was trying to retrieve his heart and put it back in his chest.
I also don't see how Smoker had the upper hand against Law at all. Both could keep up with each other.
I will stop now because I'm not interested in continuing with power levels.
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So being sent flying by a kick means a character isn't physically strong?
Characters are sent flying several times when hit hard enough. That's standard Shonen physics at work. Hell, Sanji sent Vergo flying with a kick too.
Also, saying that Law couldn't defend/evade a Soru is also wrong. Law wasn't trying to dodge attacks, he was trying to retrieve his heart and put it back in his chest.
I also don't see how Smoker had the upper hand against Law at all. Both could keep up with each other.
I will stop now because I'm not interested in continuing with power levels.
You're totally manipulating what I said, without any logic. Did I said that Law wasn't physically strong because he was sent flying? NO, I even said that he was physically strong. So you're not reading my post right.
While characters are sent flying several times, being sent flying with an attack means a lot. Means the attack was strong enough to destroy all the opponent balance and elevating his entire body off the ground. Basically an attack where the other character suffers a Huge blow. Normally that happens when the other character is caught by surprise or when he can't endure the impact. In Law case wasn't a surprise attack, he was in battle mode focused on Vergo(or should. But look, if he was fighting Vergo and he was still surprised by his attack than that shows he isn't that proficient in close combat).Law wasn't trying to dodge attacks? Is objective was being pummeled without doing anything? Is like a person that trips and falls face in the ground, and later says to his friends that his objective wasn't protect from the fall, but doing other thing.
Unless he was a Masochist, is obviously that the person(and law) couldn't defend because it was to fast.Law was doing a preemptive battle, he was always reacting to what Smoker did, and defending, and in the last moment(has shown by his face and reactions to the attacks). He only took the initiative 4 times, and 3 of those weren't attacks, but "defensive" counters, that would give him time(throwing the boat, and two pillars of earth), the only real attack was the last one, the scapel. And don't forget that Smoker grabbed Law by his neck, put him down in the ground and almost "pierced" him with his Jitte. Law was only able to evade at the last second.
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Oda doesn't have to explan everything! Is not what is being discussed here. The thing is that Vergo was totally explained in Punk Hazard, it wasn't left any space for anything. Are you saying that Vergo is such an important character that Oda will retcon him, to give other explanation about something that already was explained(his body toughness).
The thing about Vergo is that Oda introduced him in that arc, showed him fighting multiply times in the arc, showed him being defeated in the arc and showed all his skills(rokushiki and Haki. And with that everything about his battles was explained, even Sanji comment about his body being like concrete), except, for what you believe, his devil fruit powers. Why would that be?
Note that you don't have any defense for your argument. If things worked that way, I could argue that Luffy from the beginning of the series had two devil fruit powers and you couldn't disagree, because his my opinion and because Oda don't need to explain everything!It's not apples and oranges and I'm actually surprised you went and adressed each of those examples as if it's that important.
You think Vergo was totally explained in PH? Cool. You think there isn't any space left to talk about Vergo or what he did in the past? Well, it's your right to think like that.
Am I saying Vergo is such an important character that Oda might reveal something yet unknown to us? In my experience there's hardly a character in OP which you can dismiss like that.And get over yourself a little. I'm not saying he does have a devil fruit, I'm saying it's possible. Oda might bring it in to explain how he survived or whatever. I could live with that.
It's funny that this discussion keeps repeating over the years. I felt the same when I was trying to explain Dofla was the head of slave trade on Shabondy (noooo, Dofla's Jolly Roger had two sets of teeth!) or that Sabo was alive to people who thought they had it all figured out.
Don't really care if Vergo has a devil fruit or not, but the "character is totally explained and has no more purposed" argument is pretty lazy one. You're going to have to do better to convince me Vergo can't serve any more purpose in the story.
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Forum user Bartholemew Bear passed away in a very moving and touching way. I, ARTEMlS, therefore carry on the Will of DArth for good unto its final fulfilment.
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Why are we having a discussion about how Law pissed off Vergo? Vergo seems like an incredibly stuck-up guy who get annoyed by everything anyway. Remember how he was annoyed simply because Law didn't call him Vergo-san? That might even be what happened 13 years ago to make Vergo beat him up.
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They must found a pièce of vergo attached to a burger
Just a stupid joke to have the chance to ask If it will have place a break this week, anybody knows?
I want to see the usopp ending so bad!Speaking of usopp, even If im several time late for the discussion, i believe him hearing all the voices of the underground harbour at the beginning of the sop operation ti sa hint of his next observation haki power up. Who cares? I don't Know but it seemed to me that it wansnt noticed by many and i want ed to share
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It's not apples and oranges and I'm actually surprised you went and adressed each of those examples as if it's that important.
You think Vergo was totally explained in PH? Cool. You think there isn't any space left to talk about Vergo or what he did in the past? Well, it's your right to think like that.
Am I saying Vergo is such an important character that Oda might reveal something yet unknown to us? In my experience there's hardly a character in OP which you can dismiss like that.And get over yourself a little. I'm not saying he does have a devil fruit, I'm saying it's possible. Oda might bring it in to explain how he survived or whatever. I could live with that.
It's funny that this discussion keeps repeating over the years. I felt the same when I was trying to explain Dofla was the head of slave trade on Shabondy (noooo, Dofla's Jolly Roger had two sets of teeth!) or that Sabo was alive to people who thought they had it all figured out.
Don't really care if Vergo has a devil fruit or not, but the "character is totally explained and has no more purposed" argument is pretty lazy one. You're going to have to do better to convince me Vergo can't serve any more purpose in the story.
As I said I could as well tell that Luffy had always two devil fruits. Basically what you're doing is a theory without any base. You can in no way defend it. If you go by, it could happen, defense than my counter argument is, everything could happen so why is what you're saying more reliable than what I'm saying?
Basically nothing remotely indicates about that, if in the end it happens, has nothing to do with your deduction skills, but luck!"If with your eyes closed you throw enough rocks to a dog in the distant, soon or later a rock will hit him(the dog), but that has nothing to do with your aim!"
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@Bartholemew:
I enjoyed it, too.
An extra cookie for adding (or better not adding) a certain someone.
Who?
! Yeah, decided to have a spin at that bad Robin joke. Too bad nobody asked "What about Robin?"
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
As I said I could as well tell that Luffy had always two devil fruits. Basically what you're doing is a theory without any base. You can in no way defend it. If you go by, it could happen, defense than my counter argument is, everything could happen so why is what you're saying more reliable than what I'm saying?
Basically nothing remotely indicates about that, if in the end it happens, has nothing to do with your deduction skills, but luck!"If with your eyes closed you throw enough rocks to a dog in the distant, soon or later a rock will hit him(the dog), but that has nothing to do with your aim!"
There are certain indications Vergo might have some kind of metal DF. Ask vagabond87, he's done his research. There's too much for me to bother writing here. Things sticking to his face, memory issues, shock resistance, hardness, fact that there doesn't seem to be a Doula crewmember without a DF (Vergo would be the only one so far)… Granted, most of those indications can be explained in a way that doesn't include metal df, but still, the option is hanging there. You can't say it's based on nothing.
vagabond sure will have a field day here if it turns out Vergo has a devil fruit. And it won't be pretty
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@Bartholemew:
I enjoyed it, too.
An extra cookie for adding (or better not adding) a certain someone.
No one is missing from that list as far as I can tell. :ninja:
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You're totally manipulating what I said, without any logic. Did I said that Law wasn't physically strong because he was sent flying? NO, I even said that he was physically strong. So you're not reading my post right.
While characters are sent flying several times, being sent flying with an attack means a lot. Means the attack was strong enough to destroy all the opponent balance and elevating his entire body off the ground. Basically an attack where the other character suffers a Huge blow. Normally that happens when the other character is caught by surprise or when he can't endure the impact. In Law case wasn't a surprise attack, he was in battle mode focused on Vergo(or should. But look, if he was fighting Vergo and he was still surprised by his attack than that shows he isn't that proficient in close combat).Law wasn't trying to dodge attacks? Is objective was being pummeled without doing anything? Is like a person that trips and falls face in the ground, and later says to his friends that his objective wasn't protect from the fall, but doing other thing.
Unless he was a Masochist, is obviously that the person(and law) couldn't defend because it was to fast.Law was doing a preemptive battle, he was always reacting to what Smoker did, and defending, and in the last moment(has shown by his face and reactions to the attacks). He only took the initiative 4 times, and 3 of those weren't attacks, but "defensive" counters, that would give him time(throwing the boat, and two pillars of earth), the only real attack was the last one, the scapel. And don't forget that Smoker grabbed Law by his neck, put him down in the ground and almost "pierced" him with his Jitte. Law was only able to evade at the last second.
Honestly, I forgot the original point of this discussion.
However, I think this is being too overanalyzed. I mean, what's the point of discussing whether Law could have dodged this or that when the plot required him to be unable to do anything until Smoker arrived? Oda's fights tend to be too plot-sensitive and picking apart every little detail is simply useless. There's also the whole rock-paper-scissors aspect that is found in fights involving DF users.
So yeah, in the end, it's just less complicated to assume that Law is simply more powerful than either Smoker (who was beaten fairly) or Vergo (symbolic of Law's growth), but only slightly.
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Law probably just tripped down a flight of stairs and told everybody that Vergo did it.
Giving Vergo a much needed badass boast, and made Law not come across as this clumsy closeau-esque moron.
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Stairs are the bane of the OP world.
Come on, Vegapunk. Elevators aren't that hard to come up with.
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Have you considered that Vegapunk himself might be a sentient set of stairs
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Law probably just tripped down a flight of stairs and told everybody that Vergo did it.
Giving Vergo a much needed badass boast, and made Law not come across as this clumsy closeau-esque moron.
:ninja:
!
Cue sexy saxophone music.
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You're saying that Law and Doflamingo, both were totally wrong, but for some reason things worked how they said it?
Vergo all throughout the arc called Law brat and ordered manners, but he was so afraid of him, because you say it?! It was never showed a sign of concern of his part, but I'm the one making stupid justifications?
Here one of the times he calls Law brat and the first time he hears San from Law mouth! http://img.batoto.net/comics/2012/12/01/o/read50b9f7f76c4ca/img000013.png
Now, show me evidence that Vergo was afraid or hurried!
"Vergo: You shitty brat…
Law: Please, go on thinking that."
Thank you for bringing this page! I think this part really shows how Law was, fro mthe very beginning, planning on enraging Vergo at the right moment. He definitely knew how the opponent would react, and he wanted this guy to think of him as "just a brat".
Why? Because if Vergo goes around using Soru and kicking, Law would be defeated. He wouldn't be able to keep the same pace, or, at the very least, would have much more difficulty. He trained his CoA a lot and was confident that he could slash Vergo in case of a direct, slower attack. Oda deals a lot with "armor-breaking" properties. There are many attacks that will either cause no harm or defeat the opponent OHKO.
Example? Zoro x Mr.1. Another? Luffy x Blueno.
Law is a guy who sticks to his plans. He's not a rusher like Luffy, he likes to take his time, move his pieces and always think ahead. That's maybe the one thing he learned from Doflamingo, who is also a planner. He was probably below Vergo in skill, stamina and other aspects, but knew his Haki dedication through the last years would be his trump card, because neither Vergo or Doffy knew of his growth. Dressrosa started with Doffy's chess table, he refered to enemies as "pieces" already. This is nothing but a chess match between the two. You can even draw more comparisons: one pawn (soldier-san) is getting to the other side to become a knight (Kyros), Doffy's queen being threatened (Sugar), even King Riku has been on check for a long time... I do believe this analogies are Oda's way of expressing these two characters nature of making plans and thinking steps ahead.
And so, I think you're right.
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Firstly, on the subject of making a joke about molesation, either everything is ok to joke about or nothing is ok to joke about in my opinion.
Secondly, I'm pretty sure that Vergo was referring to the fact that Law was sneaking around behind Doffy's back at that exact point on PH. He was basically saying we used to be your superiors, did you really think you could pull one over on us?
So yeah, I think you're running way, way past the point that Vergo was actually making with that comment ie a statement about what was happening at the present time, not some far flung deep meaning comment going back to Law's previous tenure under Doflamingo.
This is kind of backed up by the fact that until very recently, Doflamingo was still pretty shocked that Law betrayed him. If Law had a history of previous skulduggery, then there's no way we'd have seen that reaction out of him.
Also I'm not really seeing a teacher theme coming from vergo tbh, well, not from carrying some bamboo and wanting to be addressed properly by a former subordinate.
People seem to add deep meanings to literally everything that Oda does here. Don't get me wrong, his writing at times is very much in that vein, but I can't help imagine him laughing his ass off as he smokes reading so many subplots theories he never even thought of that people assume he wrote in regards to his story.
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I think I know why the revolutionaries are here. They are here to kidnap Sugar.
Dragon is going to turn the Elder Stars + all the CDs into toys at Marjeois
I mean can you imagine? All the CDs are gone from the world!
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Also, in Sugar's contracts, she says that "you'll obey the family members"...what if the toys will still listen to Violet(cuz shes technically still a DD family member, no? Just betrayed them couple of hours ago)...Violet is going to lead the army of toys with the Toy Soldier. ??
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@Buggy:
I think I know why the revolutionaries are here. They are here to kidnap Sugar.
Dragon is going to turn the Elder Stars + all the CDs into toys at Marjeois
I mean can you imagine? All the CDs are gone from the world!
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Also, in Sugar's contracts, she says that "you'll obey the family members"...what if the toys will still listen to Violet(cuz shes technically still a DD family member, no? Just betrayed them couple of hours ago)...Violet is going to lead the army of toys with the Toy Soldier. ??
What? No!
The revolutionaries are here to overthrow doflamingo, the strawhats just happened to be in the way.
Anyways I don't know if you noticed the dd family is too much for the strawhats to handle, the revolutionaries will join. In.
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Firstly, on the subject of making a joke about molesation, either everything is ok to joke about or nothing is ok to joke about in my opinion.
Secondly, I'm pretty sure that Vergo was referring to the fact that Law was sneaking around behind Doffy's back at that exact point on PH. He was basically saying we used to be your superiors, did you really think you could pull one over on us?
So yeah, I think you're running way, way past the point that Vergo was actually making with that comment ie a statement about what was happening at the present time, not some far flung deep meaning comment going back to Law's previous tenure under Doflamingo.
This is kind of backed up by the fact that until very recently, Doflamingo was still pretty shocked that Law betrayed him. If Law had a history of previous skulduggery, then there's no way we'd have seen that reaction out of him.
Also I'm not really seeing a teacher theme coming from vergo tbh, well, not from carrying some bamboo and wanting to be addressed properly by a former subordinate.
1. Ok, joke whatever you want people - its just me probably that found those jokes as not much fun.
2. Here look at Laws reaction to Vergos words!
+ Monets laugh panel as she was shown to be one of most cruel people in One Piece when it comes to letting some people suffer- kids being example(maybe flashback will also somehow show her to be as cold-her theme both in power and character - as on Punk Hazard.
To be it screams like making Law remember what happened back then, how he traumatized him- those words have to be related to flashback. Also Doflamingos words on Vergo terror point toward flashback role for Vergo, a big one that will change how we see his character during Punk Hazard and also we should get some idea on how hard it must have been for Law to face Vergo with traumatizing experience from past still being fresh to his memory as it seemed. Many things are unclear about him. When he was first seen with hamburger on his face everybody were like "Damn he has to have some DF" but later it was said he is crazy good in haki and he was shown to use shigun and geppou and most of people were like "food sticks to him just like that he is haki + tekkai". I expect more to be revealed in flashback.All of Doflamingo pirates are Devil Fruit users(I wrote about it months ago) as only Dellinger and Lao G are not yet confirmed in power and literally everybody else have some kind of power confirmed or hinted at- just to add some fuel for some people.
3. Manner of how Vergo acts is a bit like of an army teacher, he even stood over Law while latter was on the ground with hands behind his back- some very strict teachers walk like that- but its my impression based on movies that I seen etc. So its understandable if you didnt came across same conclusion as I did.
I didnt expected that some of my imaginative take will be explored and commented in such detail ;)
Next time if I will post something like that I will left no point without explanation at start. -
@LordEnel:
What? No!
The revolutionaries are here to overthrow doflamingo, the strawhats just happened to be in the way.
Anyways I don't know if you noticed the dd family is too much for the strawhats to handle, the revolutionaries will join. In.
Who says that ? Zoro can solo.
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Likewise Nami can solo, too. She will just appear and blow away Doffy with a Kamehameha. If that happens, I will ask no questions.
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