Fuck those shits
Thos bad guys killing people
Those shitty dogs
Fuck those shits
Thos bad guys killing people
Those shitty dogs
World War III to ceasefire for a month during World Cup 2018. Sepp Blatter happy and will call it a succesful championship.
I swear to God. If this does turn into WWIII, I wouldn't know what or whom to believe in this world anymore. It would only make me think that peace and common sense is irrelevant considering who is sitting in power.
Three ex-presidents of Ukraine urged to break the " Kharkiv agreements '
Three ex-presidents of Ukraine called the authorities to terminate the Kharkiv agreements on Black Sea Fleet in Crimea , signed by Dmitry Medvedev and Viktor Yanukovych in 2010.
This is stated in a joint statement by Ex-President Leonid Kravchuk, Leonid Kuchma and Viktor Yushchenko via " Ukrainian Truth " on Saturday evening.
They note that " for the first time in recent history Ukrainian people faced with a crisis that threatens the unity, sovereignty and independence of our country and that can turn into a national catastrophe that threatens to destruct Ukraine ."
The ex-President's believes that " people of Ukraine and Russia are being artificially encouraged to fratricidal war."
" The countdown is on an hour. Ukraine, which is, with a difficulty trying to overcome the political crisis, now on the brink of an escalation of the conflict, which has all the characteristics of military aggression ," - said in a statement.
Kuchma , Kravchuk and Yushchenko believes that Russia , " using internal political difficulties in Ukraine , decided to play the so-called Crimean card in their own interests , ignoring its commitments to Ukraine ."
"Crimea is a territory of Ukraine , it is an axiom for every Ukrainian citizen for any Ukrainian politician. Speculations on this subject, attacks on Ukrainian territory is unacceptable " - the president .
They appealed to the president of Russia to "without prejudice to estimate internal political events in Ukraine and actually recognize the right to self-determination , the inviolability of borders and respect the sovereignty of Ukraine ."
Ex-Presidents also appealed to the Federal Assembly of the Russian State Duma and " Take a step back , give up the decision on armed intervention, which may make Ukrainian and Russians an enemies ."
Kuchma, Kravchuk and President also appealed to the Ukrainian authorities to "while making any sort of decision , consider the historical features of the regions of Ukraine , listen carefully to both East and West, South and North. Haste not consider issues that may cause deterioration in the society" .
They also urged the Security Service and the GPU " instantly respond to any threats to split Ukraine, to exercise balance and endurance ." " Adequate response from Ukrainian law enforcement officials and top political leadership can still stop the appearance in Europe of "hot spots" - said in a statement.
ex-President's also asked to "stop dividing Ukrainians between ours guys and enemies, from totalitarian lustrations and substituting the law with political expediency ."
" We are all now aware that the way out of the crisis is possible only on the basis of agreed positions , understanding and mutual respect ," - said in a statement .
" We appeal to the Supreme Council of Ukraine to immediately hold a meeting . Declare mobilize and be ready to defend our land. Parliament should denounced the Kharkiv agreements . Ukrainian authorities should seek immediate decision on the signing of the Association Agreement with the European Union ", - the president .
They also call on Russia to hear "the will of the Ukrainian people , not just some part of it ," and "to let ourselves solve our problems." "Not to make attempts to help us with armed intervention ," - said in a statement.
" It is clear that Ukraine will protect its territorial integrity. And this - the conflict between fraternal nations that may become dramatic page in our history. Authors of this conflict will also be evaluated in an appropriate manner by Ukrainian and Russian people and the international community " - said the statement.
The ex-presidents also urged the EU "to most effectively position in Ukraine ." <–-- I got no idea how to word that...Eu should show it's stance(action) on the issue in Ukraine? ........er
"While diplomats can still speak louder than guns , the EU needs to urgently send in Ukraine continued mission that would consists of influential negotiators and observers to resolve the possible conflict in Ukraine ", - said Kravchuk, Kuchma and Yushchenko.
"We also appeal to the international community, the United States , the United Kingdom, the European Union , which once gave Ukraine security guarantees with requirement to keep your word. We now need your support , help, and active participation in a dialogue regarding the peaceful settlement of the situation around Ukraine , "- said in a statement.
@Kaba:
I swear to God. If this does turn into WWIII, I wouldn't know what or whom to believe in this world anymore. It would only make me think that peace and common sense is irrelevant considering who is sitting in power.
WWIII - Crazy to think we're on the verge of it.
Shame the trip to Mars is so far away - having humans living on Mars would be the only way to ensure humanity could continue if we blew ourselves up.
It's funny how common is the rethoric of "these people are being manipulated!" always gets thrown arround. Who, acording to them has true free will then?
A collection of twitter screenshots:
!
Nothing too major, expect for russian troops or prorussian activists trying to take over, but those news are too hectic to follow…
Lol, you see that tree with the white bench behind it in one of the pictures from St. Petersburg? I've climbed on it.
Anyway, it's really good to see people in Russia protest against this whole madness. Our foreign politics researchers have all been shaking their heads in disbelief, giving comments like "I've always thought of Russia as a rational country when its interests are in question, but this makes very little sense politically." I'm starting to think that this might very well become the start of Russian political instability with Putin losing a lot of the public backing he has.
Anyway, it's really good to see people in Russia protest against this whole madness. Our foreign politics researchers have all been shaking their heads in disbelief, giving comments like "I've always thought of Russia as a rational country when its interests are in question, but this makes very little sense politically." I'm starting to think that this might very well become the start of Russian political instability with Putin losing a lot of the public backing he has.
@New:
We didn't think Putin would do this. Why, exactly? This has often puzzled me about Western analysis of Russia. It is often predicated on wholly Western logic: surely, Russia won't invade [Georgia, Ukraine, whoever's next] because war is costly and the Russian economy isn't doing well and surely Putin doesn't want another hit to an already weak ruble; because Russia doesn't need to conquer Crimea if Crimea is going to secede on its own; Russia will not want to risk the geopolitical isolation, and "what's really in it for Russia?"—stop. Russia, or, more accurately, Putin, sees the world according to his own logic, and the logic goes like this: it is better to be feared than loved, it is better to be overly strong than to risk appearing weak, and Russia was, is, and will be an empire with an eternal appetite for expansion. And it will gather whatever spurious reasons it needs to insulate itself territorially from what it still perceives to be a large and growing NATO threat. Trying to harness Russia with our own logic just makes us miss Putin's next steps.
http://www.newrepublic.com/article/116810/putin-declares-war-ukraine-and-us-or-nato-wont-do-much
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@Print:
http://www.newrepublic.com/article/116810/putin-declares-war-ukraine-and-us-or-nato-wont-do-much
Something like that
@Print:
http://www.newrepublic.com/article/116810/putin-declares-war-ukraine-and-us-or-nato-wont-do-much
This is not what they meant, though, and personally I find it very hard to believe that Putin would have all of a sudden turned into a Hitler-esque aspiring conqueror. Russian logic is certainly a huge factor in all of this, as it definitely was back in Georgia, but the lack of rationality in this particular crisis isn't really subject to subjective interpretation and doesn't just stem from a disparity between Russian and European worldviews.
What our "experts" meant is that Putin, for the first time in ages, has shown the kind of unpredictability that greatly shakes the European view of Russia as a stubborn country that still has aspirations for being a superpower, at least in the regional sense of the word, but that doesn't want to upset the status quo and that is aware of its important ties with the rest of the world and Europe especially. By cornering itself with overly aggressive rhetoric, Russia has basically got itself in a spot where it has to do something or it loses face.
But they've only now begun to realize that by threatening Ukraine, a European country with which they've had relatively close and amicable (read as: oppressive but not hostile) relations, they've also turned the whole of the West decidedly against them and made themselves into a completely untrustworthy monster that can't be predicted and that can't be dealt with because there is no way to analyze what it's doing and why. They're pushing their neighbors into NATO, a union that is honestly meant to be against them no matter what anyone says, pissing off Germany, making the US very wary, and driving their distant Asian relatives in the smaller countries between them and China into China's safer embrace. And on top of it all, they're losing legitimacy in their own country as people are openly questioning the decision of going to war.
The whole thing, from Russia's point of view, is very, very rash and very self-destructive. And they've usually known not to act like that. It's pretty scary, honestly.
Lol, you see that tree with the white bench behind it in one of the pictures from St. Petersburg? I've climbed on it.
Anyway, it's really good to see people in Russia protest against this whole madness. Our foreign politics researchers have all been shaking their heads in disbelief, giving comments like "I've always thought of Russia as a rational country when its interests are in question, but this makes very little sense politically." I'm starting to think that this might very well become the start of Russian political instability with Putin losing a lot of the public backing he has.
Make no mistake there was also organized rally that was pro-intervention they tell 20,000 people participated, police didn't bother them
Well, of course, but that's just crazy extremist people. They exist everywhere.
It's extremely brave doing anti-war stuff in Russia given you have to know it won't have any effect and _you will probably be arrested_.
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The whole thing, from Russia's point of view, is very, very rash and very self-destructive. And they've usually known not to act like that. It's pretty scary, honestly.
Yeah, I wasn't fully sold on that article but I thought I'd share it anyway given what you said.
Maybe the situation in Syria changed things, at least for Putin?
@Print:
It's extremely brave doing anti-war stuff in Russia given you have to know it won't have any effect and _you will probably be arrested_.
While your point is very much taken, and obviously this is true to a far greater extreme in Russia than some other places, in a sense this is nothing more than the basic paradox at the heart of any sort of activism.
Nothing anybody does ever has any effect, and yet if nobody ever did anything for that reason, then nothing would ever change.
I expect Germany to pull out as well.
I'd be weirded out if they didn't, yeah.
I hope this little scene will mark the beginning of the end of our royal house:
With Russia's support of Syria and now this it almost sees like Russia is purposefully trying to push itself into a corner. A corner where the only action left to get out is with fangs bared and claws flying.
Protest in Turkey to support Crimea tatars
!
Also a post from someone living in Lugansk:
Friends! Everyone, who just like me, were shaken yesterday by the " Russian revolt " in Lugansk.
All those who, just like me, believed that we surrendered the city without a fight that Lugansk no longer belonged to us. All those who, just like me, yesterday started planning their future life in a more suitable place. Look at these photos. Here yesterday Russian 'warriors' right during a rally right behind the monument Shevchenko shared bag (!) And a package of money. Meanwhile, grannies continue to chip money on stage for the berkut, and packs of money were then thrown from the stage and carried to those "warriors'. Here it is - genuine Russian soul - Lugansk.
Friends Ukrainians , just look at these photos and remember that money tend to end quickly . Everything will be fine .
Comrades russians, go to fcking hell. Just go fck off. Better along with Russian passports. Here, we are in no need for biological debris .
Repost friends! The country should know their superheroes.
@Lef:
Protest in Turkey to support Crimea tatars
! [qimg]http://i.imgur.com/So2sLOn.jpg[/qimg]
[qimg]http://i.imgur.com/9geMce3.jpg[/qimg]
[qimg]http://i.imgur.com/xb0LsyT.jpg[/qimg]
[qimg]http://i.imgur.com/e4Bt9P0.jpg[/qimg]
[qimg]http://i.imgur.com/0PTG6wY.jpg[/qimg]
[qimg]http://i.imgur.com/PjFdvkt.jpg[/qimg]
[qimg]http://i.imgur.com/AlbRuq2.jpg[/qimg]
[qimg]http://i.imgur.com/i2u2EFa.jpg[/qimg]
[qimg]http://i.imgur.com/vr9LtDX.jpg[/qimg]
[qimg]http://i.imgur.com/WMtUUBn.jpg[/qimg]Also a post from someone living in Lugansk:
If you can, can you translate what some of those signs say?
If you can, can you translate what some of those signs say?
But it's turkish(?), I don't know this language, lol.
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huehuehue
BOO!
SHAME ON YOU GENERAL OF UKRAINIAN NAVY! YOU WERE APPOINTED JUST RECENTLY BY A NEW GOV.! AND YOU ALREADY SIDED WITH THE CRIMEA , PRORUSSIAN MOLE THAT BECAME A NEW HEAD OF CRIMEA PARLAMENT!
A GREAT PLAY! LOOK AT THAT ACTOR! HE IS NOW AN EX-GENERAL AND HOLDS NO POWER SINCE THIS MORNING!
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Lviv's mobilized
NOW THAT'S WHO I BE ROOTING FOR !
@Lef:
SHAME ON YOU GENERAL OF UKRAINIAN NAVY! YOU WERE APPOINTED JUST RECENTLY BY A NEW GOV.! AND YOU ALREADY SIDED WITH THE CRIMEA , PRORUSSIAN MOLE THAT BECAME A NEW HEAD OF CRIMEA PARLAMENT!
Did he have a gun to his head though?
Ok Russia, you're hurting my brain.
That General that made an oath, is actually an EXgeneral of navi, since this morning X'D
HE GOT NO POWER
EDIT: I FELT THE BURNT OF INFORMATION WAR TWICE NOW. IT GOT ME ME GOOD, BOTH TIMES. RUSSIA STOP LYING AND DECEIVING!
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@Print:
Did he have a gun to his head though?
He is just a …. I dunno an arse? A lying arse, and acting arse.
Give him an Oscar
Isn't this all about Crimea. Russian has a lot of military shit there. The Ukraine just forced in a new anti-russian gov't. Now they could do nothing which could mean that the Ukraine Gov't could try to take Crimea by force which isn't outlandish because they just overthrew the gov't by force. If that's the case then all that military shit is now Ukraines. They could wait it out and see if Crimea gets to secede but again, that plan still puts all that military shit at risk and if Ukraine pulls a Georgia then they have no choice but to fight anyways.
So the choices regarding Crimea for Russia are
1. Do nothing and wait for the Ukraine to settle it's own affairs. This puts their shit at risk though.
2. Take preemptive military action against the Ukraine which they haven't done yet and would be stupid as it would basically start a major war.
3. Move troops in like they can legally do and do nothing with them like they can also legally do in case things don't go in their favor at least Ukraine won't try to take Crimea by force cause it would already be at a major disadvantage.
If that's wrong correct me but while this seems like a lot of dick waving it also seems like rational dick waving. If the US had that much military hardware in an unstable country who's new gov't was anti-US they would probably do the exact same thing.
@Lef:
He is just a …. I dunno an arse? A lying arse, and acting arse.
Give him an Oscar
May as well, Russia won't be showing them anyway.
I'm excited for the paralympics next week.
@Lef:
But it's turkish(?), I don't know this language, lol.
Oh, lol, whoops sorry about that. "Protests in Turkey" should have given it away. I'm sure I can find some service on the internet to help me.
Isn't this all about Crimea. Russian has a lot of military shit there. The Ukraine just forced in a new anti-russian gov't. Now they could do nothing which could mean that the Ukraine Gov't could try to take Crimea by force which isn't outlandish because they just overthrew the gov't by force. If that's the case then all that military shit is now Ukraines. They could wait it out and see if Crimea gets to secede but again, that plan still puts all that military shit at risk and if Ukraine pulls a Georgia then they have no choice but to fight anyways.
So the choices regarding Crimea for Russia are
1. Do nothing and wait for the Ukraine to settle it's own affairs. This puts their shit at risk though.
2. Take preemptive military action against the Ukraine which they haven't done yet and would be stupid as it would basically start a major war.
3. Move troops in like they can legally do and do nothing with them like they can also legally do in case things don't go in their favor at least Ukraine won't try to take Crimea by force cause it would already be at a major disadvantage.If that's wrong correct me but while this seems like a lot of dick waving it also seems like rational dick waving. If the US had that much military hardware in an unstable country who's new gov't was anti-US they would probably do the exact same thing.
The Russians don't have a lot of "military shit" in Crimea. They have a naval base in Sevastopol. One that has a lot of firepower concentrated in a small patch of land, and is easily defended by the men at the base. Do you expect men with guns and military training to surrender to a rag-tag group of protestors?
This is just pure and naked aggression. And following the exact template of Russia's war with Georgia. Read up on that conflict and you'll see what's happening here, clear as day.
Isn't this all about Crimea. Russian has a lot of military shit there. The Ukraine just forced in a new anti-russian gov't. Now they could do nothing which could mean that the Ukraine Gov't could try to take Crimea by force which isn't outlandish because they just overthrew the gov't by force. If that's the case then all that military shit is now Ukraines. They could wait it out and see if Crimea gets to secede but again, that plan still puts all that military shit at risk and if Ukraine pulls a Georgia then they have no choice but to fight anyways.
So the choices regarding Crimea for Russia are
1. Do nothing and wait for the Ukraine to settle it's own affairs. This puts their shit at risk though.
2. Take preemptive military action against the Ukraine which they haven't done yet and would be stupid as it would basically start a major war.
3. Move troops in like they can legally do and do nothing with them like they can also legally do in case things don't go in their favor at least Ukraine won't try to take Crimea by force cause it would already be at a major disadvantage.If that's wrong correct me but while this seems like a lot of dick waving it also seems like rational dick waving. If the US had that much military hardware in an unstable country who's new gov't was anti-US they would probably do the exact same thing.
But would USA try to take that territory? Because that's totally what Russia going after, regardless if we do or don't answer their provocations, lol. They would just stage it out, if needed. Because they been doing that for a while now(Via the previous government, aka the one who been hiring titushkas).
Isn't this all about Crimea. Russian has a lot of military shit there. The Ukraine just forced in a new anti-russian gov't. Now they could do nothing which could mean that the Ukraine Gov't could try to take Crimea by force which isn't outlandish because they just overthrew the gov't by force. If that's the case then all that military shit is now Ukraines.
Uh no. It's not Russia's stuff lying around in Ukraine's house. It's literally Russian bases, IE, Russian territory in a sense.
South Korea underwent multiple regime changes, the American bases stayed.
Cuba underwent a literal Communist revolution, the American base stayed.
Cyprus was shattered in two amid an ethnic war with a Turkish invasion, the British bases stayed.
The only attack on Russia that the Ukraine could make, is a legal one to ask if they could leave, from their territory. I know, poor Russia.
They could wait it out and see if Crimea gets to secede but again, that plan still puts all that military shit at risk and if Ukraine pulls a Georgia then they have no choice but to fight anyways.
Yeah they would have a choice. See three examples above, especially Cyprus. Unless the Ukrainians were dumb enough to attack the Russian bases.
1. Do nothing and wait for the Ukraine to settle it's own affairs. This puts their shit at risk though.
2. Take preemptive military action against the Ukraine which they haven't done yet and would be stupid as it would basically start a major war.
Crimea is part of Ukraine.
3. Move troops in like they can legally do and
Russia can't legally do that. What on earth are you talking about.
How big do you think these bases are lol. Do you think the US can just march troops all around Cuba however they want and take over stuff because of Guantanamo?
Yeah I don't think so. Russia isn't building up troops in just their bases, they're literally taking over civil institutions and things like airports of the entire peninsula.
If the US had that much military hardware in an unstable country who's new gov't was anti-US they would probably do the exact same thing.
No.
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@Print:
It's extremely brave doing anti-war stuff in Russia given you have to know it won't have any effect and _you will probably be arrested_.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Yeah, I wasn't fully sold on that article but I thought I'd share it anyway given what you said.
Maybe the situation in Syria changed things, at least for Putin?
That article is very very wrong one major thing. Putin LOVES to be seen in good light by international audiences.
He wants to be seen as this cool muscle man chess master American/NATO resister.
He's blowing so much of that with this (or rather showing his true face to the idiots who watch Russia Today) that it's actually pretty strange.
I think what's going on is honest panic.
Also the whole NATO thing is NATO is never going to attack Russia without a reason. And that reason would be Russia attacking another country in NATO. Russia's anxiety toward it is in the end entirely predicated on "Hey! Now I can't attack people!". I don't believe for a second that the Russian government actually thinks the West is going to invade it, so the classic paranoia argument just doesn't hold anymore.
YES I would believe that Russian bumpkins are still paranoid, but the people who rule them? No way.
Wow a very well known journalist made a version of Hippocratic Oath for journalist, live. He is a host of our local popular political show(Previously he was believed to be presenting information in a way that painted previous government more or less favorably)
Even with shit hitting the fan, I can't help but feel happy that our society waking up (minus hardcore vatniks). Even oligarch are getting more humane! For the first time it's not the military commissariat looking for people to recruit, but people looking for military commissariat. Forming lines even!
Amazing! I'm proud of my country(minus vatniks)
Nothing to fan the nationalistic fervour like threat from a foreign power. :-)
I think Taggerung (and others) might have an idea of Crimea being like Gibraltar or something. No no no.
This would be like a foreign country taking over Florida or Michigan or something.
Here's the entire continent.
See Ukraine? Crimea is that entire doodad hanging down off it's bottom.
That's what Russia has essentially taken over.
@Monkey:
This would be like a foreign country taking over Florida or Michigan or something.
I'm afraid it isn't as simple as that.
Crimea was given to Ukraine by Khrushchev in 1954. It was a part of Russia before that. It has always* had an ethnic Russian majority. One which sought and got a large degree of autonomy from Ukraine after the Soviet Union broke up, only to have that autonomy practically quashed unilaterally by Ukraine.
I believe that if the Crimean Russians want autonomy within Ukraine, they should be given that. But this stupid aggression from Russia is just naked imperialism from a party which is foreign to this entire Crimea-Ukraine situation.
I'm afraid it isn't as simple as that.
I'm speaking physically. Trying to emphasize the size here. Since I got the feeling Taggerung thought this was a little peninsula or something.
I believe that if the Crimean Russians want autonomy within Ukraine, they should be given that. But this stupid aggression from Russia is just naked imperialism from a party which is foreign to this entire Crimea-Ukraine situation.
- since Russia took over the Crimean Khanate by force in the eighteenth(?) century
Which brings up the fact that if Russians in Crimea want their minority rights respected, then why should we ignore the Crimean Tatars and their desire to stay in the Ukraine.
!
Oh by the way, in spite of stereotypes probably widely held.
In terms of Human Development Index, Venezuela is actually higher than Ukraine.
Thailand ironically is a magnitude lower than both.
@Monkey:
Oh by the way, in spite of stereotypes probably widely held.
In terms of Human Development Index, Venezuela is actually higher than Ukraine.
Thailand ironically is a magnitude lower than both.
Fancy that. I would've imagined that the stereotype went the other way.
Atleast where i'm from Eastern Europe is stereotypically seen as a pretty poor and desolate place.
Where as Venezuela is that tropical oil nation with a communist slant.
Fancy that. I would've imagined that the stereotype went the other way.
Atleast where i'm from Eastern Europe is stereotypically seen as a pretty poor and desolate place.
Where as Venezuela is that tropical oil nation with a communist slant.
Latin America as a pretty poor and desolate place with palm trees and horns is the stereotype here.
As in more poor than Eastern Europe.
But come to think of it, desolation is Eastern Europe's biggest stereotype. No one, not even Somalia can beat Eastern Europe on desolation.
Thailand has its rich and modern areas, sure. But it's all mixed up spread out across the state. Even in the relatively-rich industrial Eastern seaboard where I was in 2012, there were huge Western-style malls and rickety wooden houses built around open drains. Away from the coast and Bangkok area, it gets much less developed, especially in the jungles to the north. Whereas I presume things are more evenly distributed in the Ukraine and Venezuela too.
@Monkey:
But come to think of it, desolation is Eastern Europe's biggest stereotype. No one, not even Somalia can beat Eastern Europe on desolation.
The crazy desolate and despair-inducing Google Streetview photos you dug up and posted that one time spring to mind.
@Monkey:
But come to think of it, desolation is Eastern Europe's biggest stereotype. No one, not even Somalia can beat Eastern Europe on desolation.
The East German town where my family lives is made up of factories that have closed since 1990 and are just decaying in weeds with nothing to replace them. It's a pretty depressing place. And that's still being part of Germany. I imagine things are even more grim further to the east.
Speaking of Michigan.
@Monkey:
Speaking of Michigan.
Let's play a game where we post pictures of the outskirts of Detroit and places in Eastern Europe and guess which one is which.
But hey now Western Europe, unless we're talking the Medd, ya'll used to be just as desolate and gray!
You've just dressed it up with money and pretty architecture that wasn't designed by KGB torturers!
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@Cyan:
Let's play a game where we post pictures of the outskirts of Detroit and places in Eastern Europe and guess which one is which.
Whether it was populated by black or white people would instantly give it away though.
@Monkey:
Latin America as a pretty poor and desolate place with palm trees and horns is the stereotype here.
As in more poor than Eastern Europe.
Yeah i mean ones don't really think of Latin America as this wholy developed, well to do, place either.
But i suppose it's easier to look past problems in places faraway, that you know very little of the realities of.
I mean Eastern Europe is a place where most of us Euro's have atleast passed by, that is similar to ours. Probably easier to tell.
But come to think of it, desolation is Eastern Europe's biggest stereotype. No one, not even Somalia can beat Eastern Europe on desolation.
That and mustasches and either terrifying or hilarious drunkenness make up the general negative stereotype of the East.
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@Monkey:
But hey now Western Europe, unless we're talking the Medd, ya'll used to be just as desolate and gray!
You've just dressed it up with money and pretty architecture that wasn't designed by KGB torturers!
When my grandparents were wee kids, i'm told, the local pass-time was getting drunk in barn dances, boning and getting into fights.
But now we're suddenly to posh and fancy to get drunk in a barn and roughhouse.
Mustaches are kinda back though. In that god awful ironic way where your senior accountant has the barber give him the Albanian goatherder look.