@Monkey:
Redeemed from what?
16 chars of being fat?
@Monkey:
Redeemed from what?
16 chars of being fat?
@Monkey:
Redeemed from what?
From being a whiney pussy. :p
Again he's a character that has already served his purpose, unlike Bellamy.
From being a whiney pussy. :p
Again he's a character that has already served his purpose, unlike Bellamy.
You're telling me that after Jaya you thought Bellamy would come back totally redeemed? Some thought he was dead and most thought if he made a reappearance it would be small and he'd still be an asshole. I doubt you knew Bellamy would serve a purpose beyond talking shit about dreams and getting 1HKO'd by Luffy.
Unlike Bellamy, who had pretty much no foreshadowing of his return, Moriah has mysteriously vanished in the middle of a fight and one of his right-hand men (who was last seen with Moriah!) is a big reporter sailing around the New World. Not to mention, Moriah's greatest enemy is making an appearance in the story very soon.
No, I didn't expect from Bellamy to return in such a way but it was clear he wasn't just fodder that would have been 1HKO'd.
He didn't had served a full purpose on the story yet.
I mean, he wasn't a strong pirate/enemy, so his role was really story driven and it made sense for the character to come back.
It's something that obviously you don't expect when you read the Jaya arc the first time, but it starts to be clear in Punk Hazard.
As you say Moria's return has been foreshadowed lately.
I don't say he won't be back, I just think he has nothing to "give" to Luffy anymore because so far he has proven to be a weak willed character.
Obviously Oda is a genius, but, unless he decide to reintroduce a reasonably change a more strong willed Moria, I can't figure out how his character could "work".
He's not Croc or Mihawk, if you know what I mean, also…he's possibly the strongest pirate that has not acknowledged Luffy's true strength.
Maybe he must return to acknowledge that strength...dunno, I don't like Moria, but I like Oda's storytelling, so I won't be storming the forums whining, crying and complaining if Moria gets back, just...I would rather have Gin back instead of Moria since I found him a more interesting character so far.
No, I didn't expect from Bellamy to return in such a way but it was clear he wasn't just fodder that would have been 1HKO'd.
He didn't had served a full purpose on the story yet.
I mean, he wasn't a strong pirate/enemy, so his role was really story driven and it made sense for the character to come back.
It's something that obviously you don't expect when you read the Jaya arc the first time, but it starts to be clear in Punk Hazard.As you say Moria's return has been foreshadowed lately.
I don't say he won't be back, I just think he has nothing to "give" to Luffy anymore because so far he has proven to be a weak willed character.
Obviously Oda is a genius, but, unless he decide to reintroduce a reasonably change a more strong willed Moria, I can't figure out how his character could "work".He's not Croc or Mihawk, if you know what I mean, also…he's possibly the strongest pirate that has not acknowledged Luffy's true strength.
Maybe he must return to acknowledge that strength...dunno, I don't like Moria, but I like Oda's storytelling, so I won't be storming the forums whining, crying and complaining if Moria gets back, just...I would rather have Gin back instead of Moria since I found him a more interesting character so far.
I don't see how you can think Bellamy's return made more sense than a possible return for Moriah.
I've loved Belllamy's return, and it's another great example of Oda's abilities that he brought back an asshole from a short arc who got one-shotted and managed to make him not only relevant to the story several hundred chapters later, but also progressed his character and made him likeable.
That being said, had Bellamy never appeared again in OP, I would not have considered the story incomplete by any means. If we've seen the last of Gecko Moriah then that would be a major opportunity wasted, and that is just not going to happen.
Moriah ties into so many threads of the story and will be absolutely pivotal when it comes to the backstory and character of Kaido when the alliance finally takes him on. I agree that if Moriah came back as the same kind of character he was, I'll be disappointed. But just look at Bellamy the Hyena and tell me, do you really think that's likely?
I genuinely couldn't disagree more about Gin Vs. Moria tbh. Gin was a pirate who turned out to be a good guy….Moriah is a former betrayed Shichibukai who was driven insane by the loss of his crew and the horrors of the New World, and is one of the few people we know who's duked it out with a yonkou on apparently even footing. No Contest.
I agree that if Moriah came back as the same kind of character he was, I'll be disappointed.
That's the point.
Bellamy took a severe beating and changed.
Moria was beaten by Kaido and cracked up.
Then he gathered a ridiculous crew and took a beating from Luffy.
In the meanwhile he was so stubborn and full of himself to refuse Kuma's help.
After being beaten 2 times he showed up at Marineford still full of himself, while he should have been "humbled" by Luffy.
The guy doesn't change, he's thick, stubborn and so full of himself, that's why he always loses.
Croc, another defeated Shichibukai, accepted his defeat and went to jail even if he could flee, he had proven to stand by his actions with pride and that's why the character works so well.
Moria had a chance to redeem himself at Marineford and totally missed it.
The later the redemption arrives, the more dramatic it must be, but Moria is too coward, relying on being protected by others instead of protecting others.
He will never be a likeable character, and not because he's evil, but because he's…lame.
Purposedly lame, mind you, I don't think Oda botched the character.
Many OP characters had honour, although a twisted honour...Moria so far hadn't and...I won't find it cool if one day he pulls some honour out of his ass.
Croc and Moriah are both examples of how the New World crushed them. Croc didn't go to Impel Down because of pride or anything like that, he went because he didn't have any dreams to live for. Moriah is just the same, having lost his crew. A majority of villains in OP are redemptive (even Bellamy who everyone loved to hate until Dressrosa.) Why is Moriah any different? Because you don't like him? From a narrative standpoint, Moriah is in a perfect position to come back and redeem himself. Losing to Kaido made him lazy and fat, getting up now for payback is the perfect way to fix his flaws.
Croc and Moriah are both examples of how the New World crushed them. Croc didn't go to Impel Down because of pride or anything like that, he went because he didn't have any dreams to live for. Moriah is just the same, having lost his crew. A majority of villains in OP are redemptive (even Bellamy who everyone loved to hate until Dressrosa.) Why is Moriah any different? Because you don't like him? From a narrative standpoint, Moriah is in a perfect position to come back and redeem himself. Losing to Kaido made him lazy and fat, getting up now for payback is the perfect way to fix his flaws.
That you pulled it out of your nowhere LOL, but it's fun LOL
I still hate Bellamy but think the character is solid.
Croc is solid.
Moria popping out now to redeem himself would be "too expected"
I think it's stupid to hate a fictional character, I rate them about how they fit in the story.
Moria is a character built to be sly, unlikable and that's good, he's perfect for the role, his redemption, if not perfectly executed, could just make him silly.
I would like to know what do you think he will do against Kaido. You too 'Zilla.
I would see an alliance with Luffy hard to make. IF it would ever happen it would be something SO much driven from Luffy's will that I would accept it as "passive" from Moria's side.
Again…Croc had the chance to be "casual" in Impel Down and say "free me and I'll help", being so cool to give the impression that he was the one helping Luffy and not the contrary, Moria has not a character that can allow this and be believable, just hypocrite.
I wouldn't see him doing something heroic against Kaido either without the risk of being totally silly.
I can't see many other ways of redemption, dunno if you both have some other ideas.
Though I trust Oda, but I feel he's going to walk on eggs to make Moria's redemption believable
Moriah was in shape back when he saw Roger's death. He was a powerful pirate in the New World until Kaido killed his crew where Moriah began having a "you do it" mindset. It's implied he stopped giving a shit about doing actual work and having an army of zombies. He had an actually strong crew before Kaido killed them.
Oda clearly has Dofla admit that he didn't kill Moriah. The one guy who could have made Moriah disappear is now in the New World. Oda himself is building up Moriah to come back into the story whether you can see it or not. It doesn't mean he'll side with Luffy. Kinda similar to how Wiper wanted to beat Enel but also fought Luffy. It's all up to Oda when it comes to that.
Wait wait wait dude.
I don't want anything, I'll enjoy the manga as it comes, because "In Oda I trust" :)
I hope you're right and I'm wrong :)
Moria is obviously going to return eventually… he has beef with Kaido, Doflamingo, and Luffy. Also, he "mysteriously vanished". This isn't Fairy Tail, Oda is definitely going to tie loose ends, one way or another.
I just noticed it but the design on Diamante's door looks like a bull's head, the one below Doflamingo's jolly roger.
So I'm calling it now, Diamante have a Zoan type model:BULL[hide][/hide]
I just noticed it but the design on Diamante's door looks like a bull's head, the one below Doflamingo's jolly roger.
So I'm calling it now, Diamante have a Zoan type model:BULL[hide]http://img.batoto.net/comics/2013/07/09/o/read51dc2ccaf3004/img000009.png[/hide]
If you look closer on his chair, his armrest has a lion. Obvi he has a lion zoan.
Short theory about the tournament which just popped up in my head: Before Luffy's next match in the tournament starts, we see how Bellamy supposedly tries to assassinate him.
Next thing we see about it, is Gatz and the audience waiting and waiting for Lucy to come to the ring. When Gatz already wants to announce his opponent as the automatic winner, Luffy will appear last minute - leaving us with an epic entrance like he had so many before. Following chapter we'll find out what really happened.
I just noticed it but the design on Diamante's door looks like a bull's head, the one below Doflamingo's jolly roger.
So I'm calling it now, Diamante have a Zoan type model:BULL[hide]http://img.batoto.net/comics/2013/07/09/o/read51dc2ccaf3004/img000009.png[/hide]
It's because of the Spanish theme.
That power is presumably taken by Minotaurus so isn't available . . .
It's because of the Spanish theme.
That power is presumably taken by Minotaurus so isn't available . . .
Minotaurus is from Greek mithology.More specific a monster lying in the labyrything in ancient Crete.
I could see the bull just being a … bull..
It's because of the Spanish theme.
That power is presumably taken by Minotaurus so isn't available . . .
Somebody answer it already and even If is an Spanish theme that symbol could have been use somewhere else and not below Doflamingo's Holly Roger, which in my book it will represent Diamante himself, it has one diamond in each side and Doflamingo's HR and his own bull sign in the middle.
So is not down yet
Minotaurus is from Greek mithology.More specific a monster lying in the labyrything in ancient Crete.
I could see the bull just being a … bull..
Yeah but the other Demon Guards didn't share names from mythology, they just followed the formula of Mino+animal. Crocodile referred to them as 'awakened Zoans', which implies they are Zoan fruit users of some sort. Which suggests that Minotaurus has consumed the cow-cow fruit.
Somebody answer it already and even If is an Spanish theme that symbol could have been use somewhere else and not below Doflamingo's Holly Roger, which in my book it will represent Diamante himself, it has one diamond in each side and Doflamingo's HR and his own bull sign in the middle.
So is not down yet
But
the fruit
has been
(almost certainly) eaten
by something that is still alive.
Yeah but the other Demon Guards didn't share names from mythology, they just followed the formula of Mino+animal. Crocodile referred to them as 'awakened Zoans', which implies they are Zoan fruit users of some sort. Which suggests that Minotaurus has consumed the cow-cow fruit.
But
the fruit
has been
(almost certainly) eaten
by something that is still alive.
YEAH almost, we still don't know much about them in the first place and you called it the Cow Cow fruit, so let me give you this LINK
I just noticed it but the design on Diamante's door looks like a bull's head, the one below Doflamingo's jolly roger.
So I'm calling it now, Diamante have a Zoan type model:BULL[hide]http://img.batoto.net/comics/2013/07/09/o/read51dc2ccaf3004/img000009.png[/hide]
we already had the cow/bull fruit
EDIT:beaten,i shoul have read the entire topic,sorry
Minotaurus is from Greek mithology.More specific a monster lying in the labyrything in ancient Crete.
I could see the bull just being a … bull..
He wasn't an actual minotaur. He was a cow fruit user.
My theory for dressrosa arc:
In the midst of all the chaos after the arena is revealed, the marines will take the mera mera no mi and fujitora will have it in his position. He's some how knows garp and will give him the fruit so coby can have it. It's fitting and I don't really see anyone else getting it.
@God:
My theory for dressrosa arc:
In the midst of all the chaos after the arena is revealed, the marines will take the mera mera no mi and fujitora will have it in his position. He's some how knows garp and will give him the fruit so coby can have it. It's fitting and I don't really see anyone else getting it.
While I don't see the Marines getting on the Colliseum grounds or any connection at all between Garp and Issho at all, the end restult could work out, but it would conflict with Luffy not wanting it to fall to somebody elese's hand.
@God:
He's some how knows garp and will give him the fruit so coby can have it. It's fitting and I don't really see anyone else getting it.
You do realize that Coby can become an Admiral without the need of Logia or any fruit for that matter right and Garp is in East Blue (retired) and we don't even know If he has stepped foot on Marines HD since the guy who killed his Grandchild and wanted to kill the other one took over
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A theory I posted on Reddit but I'm also posting here since there may be holes and I'd like them to be pointed out if so.
Okay, so a while back, when we first met Momonosuke, we learned that he ate Vegapunk's failed artificial devil fruit. We then saw that as he went hungry, he envisioned Doflamingo as he took off flying. Many people say that it's because Doflamingo can control the eaters of the artificial devil fruits, but the one Momonosuke ate wasn't created by Caesar, but rather Vegapunk, which doesn't make sense as to how Doflamingo would be able to control it. Furthermore, we also know that both Kinemon and Momonosuke ended up at Dressrosa before going to Punk Hazard. Perhaps the events that transpired before Momonosuke got onto the ship was that Doflamingo wiped his memory of something (thanks to the devil fruit user we now know can wipe memories). If that is the case, then it wouldn't be too surprising if Momonosuke visioned Doflamingo just for a second.
This theory may actually tie into another theory, in which Kanjuro, the samurai that Kinemon and Momonosuke want to rescue is actually a traitor, and with the memory wipe, it would explain why they don't remember. I personally believe that Kanjuro is/was going to work with Kaido/Doflamingo to infiltrate Wano Country and allow its control to be turned over to Kaido.
This is something I just thought of, so if there's any problems with it feel free to let me know.
Many people say that it's because Doflamingo can control the eaters of the artificial devil fruits
Whose been saying this? It doesn't make any sense.
@Monkey:
Whose been saying this? It doesn't make any sense.
It's been said a lot more on Reddit, but has been said here recently as an example. I also do agree with you that it doesn't make much sense.
It made more sense before we learned that Momo saw Dofla before coming to PH.
The moment you mentioned reddit you lost all credibility, friend.
The moment you mentioned reddit you lost all credibility, friend.
You're right! Clearly my theory would have had much more credibility had I posted it on this website rather than another!
Because most of the theories there are fucking stupid, this crap is on the goddamn front page http://dd.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/1lexiu/jewelry_bonney_theory/ and people actually think its a good theory …
Because most of the theories there are fucking stupid, this crap is on the goddamn front page http://dd.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/1lexiu/jewelry_bonney_theory/ and people actually think its a good theory …
There's seven people who think it's a good idea, and yes, I do agree with you that the theory is stupid. That doesn't change the fact that many theories that are posted there are also posted here so either there's an overlap in the userbase or the theories aren't as dumb as you say they are.
Or, and this is quite likely, the theories posted on reddit and APF both suck. But in this place we actually call out users on their shitty theories instead of encouraging them even more.
The well thought out theories that people have obviously put numerous hours into, with quotes, links, and detailed explanations, are what get their own thread and remain open for discussion. The ones on reddit are usually 2 paragraphs of bs that someone wrote down in the spur of a moment.
i'm not really adverse to that theory just because we really don't know anything about the SMILEs. That is, why we do know a few tidbits about its basic functions, we don't know enough about Doflamingo's incentive for starting this operation. Money? I don't see why he would need it that badly, especially if he is related to a Celestial Dragon or a Gorosei. To keep on good terms with Kaido? Sure, but why? He already has an island all to himself that seems fairly undisturbed. And it's not like the other Yonkou couldn't invade.
There's this really gray fuzzy area when it comes to Doflamingo's plot, which becomes even more obfuscated when you consider that the dude apparently wants to become Pirate King. Feeding fruits to a Yonkou seems entirely antithetical to such a dream. Now, if he were able to somehow control the horde of SMILE users and turn them back against Kaido, this would be an entirely different situation.
i'm not really adverse to that theory just because we really don't know anything about the SMILEs. That is, why we do know a few tidbits about its basic functions, we don't know enough about Doflamingo's incentive for starting this operation. Money? I don't see why he would need it that badly, especially if he is related to a Celestial Dragon or a Gorosei. To keep on good terms with Kaido? Sure, but why? He already has an island all to himself that seems fairly undisturbed. And it's not like the other Yonkou couldn't invade.
There's this really gray fuzzy area when it comes to Doflamingo's plot, which becomes even more obfuscated when you consider that the dude apparently wants to become Pirate King. Feeding fruits to a Yonkou seems entirely antithetical to such a dream. Now, if he were able to somehow control the horde of SMILE users and turn them back against Kaido, this would be an entirely different situation.
I still stand behind the idea that Smiles contain some sort of "flaw" that makes them less reliable than a real Devil fruit and Law wants to take advantage of that. Well we know for a fact there is something wrong with them. It would make sense that at some point Doflamingo would have done the same thing. What ever the case I have to imagine it's a very crippling flaw that set the whole plan into motion in the first place.
I still stand behind the idea that Smiles contain some sort of "flaw" that makes them less reliable than a real Devil fruit and Law wants to take advantage of that. Well we know for a fact there is something wrong with them. It would make sense that at some point Doflamingo would have done the same thing. What ever the case I have to imagine it's a very crippling flaw that set the whole plan into motion in the first place.
I certainly agree with you there, can't commit to the thought that an artificially created fruit will be the same as the "natural" (we don't even know if they are yet, do we?) fruits. However, maybe the limitation of only one existing at the same time is removed when created artificially? That'd make sense to me. Although I'm sure there are negative aspects about them.
I certainly agree with you there, can't commit to the thought that an artificially created fruit will be the same as the "natural" (we don't even know if they are yet, do we?) fruits. However, maybe the limitation of only one existing at the same time is removed when created artificially? That'd make sense to me. Although I'm sure there are negative aspects about them.
Hmmmm… If I was a writer and had to think of the positives and negatives of artificial devil fruits, they'd be:
Pros:
1. Can make multiples of same fruit.
2. User can possibly have 1 real and 1 artificial
3. More reliable and consistent than trying to find the right Zoan/Paramecia/Logia fruit out of the entire world and current users.
Cons:
1. Only Zoan types.
2. Probably less "stable" or "pure" than normal Devil Fruits
3. Control between forms is limited and difficult (i.e. a dial that's sticky- it's hard to change it either direction)
shrug That's just what I think, personally.
So we know that Bonny escaped the WG somehow but we still don't know how she escaped such an organization even though she is not strong enough to fight WG agents and I don't think she will be allow to use her Devil Fruit power while being captive, we also learned that she had a connection to either Whitebeard or Ace because we saw her crying after their dead, so my theory is that one of them help her escape the WG after conquering or attacking the island where she was held captive by them, this scenario is pretty similar to that one of Boa and Fisher Tiger
Doflamingo has been so far the "PURE" chaotic character in OnePiece.
Chaos could be accepted by the Gorousei because it stabilizes the New World, since Crews at war keep a certain kind of balance that WG/Marines can handle from a certain distance.
If you think about it, it's the same Yonkou that take cares of other pirates.
Whitebeard, and Shanks to an extent, have proven to be dangerous because they have charisma and can organize armies of pirates.
Gorousei/WG KNOW that the way to reach OnePiece is through history, searching in specific island, etc…, now, the more pirate crews fight each other, the more they're in dangerous situations, the less time they have to seek the OnePiece.
A man like Doflamingo, which has lots of resources and mantains alliances and privileges, can sneak through the chaotic "net" and decide whenever to make his move.
Law's plan was probably intended to take Dofla out of the privileged position he obtained.
One last thing, Dofla can control even normal people
Chapter 234 first page after the cover.
He controlled Vice Admiral Mozambia.
One last thing, Dofla can control even normal people
Chapter 234 first page after the cover.
He controlled Vice Admiral Mozambia.
Well, no shit. He was able to controll Jozu, why wouldn't he be able to controll some Mr. No One?
Well, no shit. He was able to controll Jozu, why wouldn't he be able to controll some Mr. No One?
You didn't read the whole thread right?
Please I encourage you to.
No, I did read it. I was just pointing out that those last lines are quite obvious.
People were stating that Dofla could control only DF users and I said no and gave an example.
Yes, obvious, but maybe not for who forgot :p
Oh, really? Didn't know there was such people, since the first time we saw Dofla's powers were used on non-DF users.
Oh, really? Didn't know there was such people, since the first time we saw Dofla's powers were used on non-DF users.
Yes there are…on reddit LOL
Well, no shit. He was able to controll Jozu, why wouldn't he be able to controll some Mr. No One?
Dofla never controlled Jozu, he only stopped Jozu from moving cuz that's all he could do.
As I ve just finished re-reading the sykpia arc: in chapter 303 luffy declared he would like to buy a statute with the stolen gold which was, surprisingly, also mentioned in the data book One Piece Yellow. Since in the current Dress Rosa arc two statues (of Noland and Kyros) have already appeard I guess Lucy/Luffy will finally get his own statue for liberating Dress Rosa/the coliseum. However Oda will play out this statue foreshadowing, in my guess, Dress Rosa would be a fitting location since it would link to a couple of things (bellamy's reappearence/golden bell, and of course to Noland)
It takes time to make a statue, so we won't probably see it now but maybe on a cover story, since as soon as the Mugiwaras have dealt with Dofla (1 day manga time) they must move to Zou and will have at least Kaido on their trail.