The Final Villain

[Clessenur]

@EvoWarrior5:

Fuck I kinda like this…

Your not the only one!

! Her groom is Duval.

@Thousand:

The problem with BB being the final villain is that One Piece isn't going to end with Luffy finding One Piece. It will just be the trigger of a global war against the World Government. However if that's the case, that would ultimately mean that BB failed in becoming Pirate King. They're supposed to be polar opposites on an equal footing but that would be undermined if Luffy accomplished his dream and beat BB to the punch. I can't see Luffy just getting to Raftel and getting One Piece with BB being in the way so Luffy has to beat him to get One Piece. However if Luffy beats him, it'll just undermine him as a villain both thematically and story-wise. You can't have a final boss villain be someone the hero has already beat once.

I think more likely, it's going to be a situation where the final two D's fight for the right of One Piece and everything it entails, the right to rule the era as it were. The age of dark ruthlessness of BB vs the age of adventure of Luffy. Luffy will win obviously and earn the right to rule the era. The final villain though has to be someone from the WG probably Akainu. Ultimately the ultimate villain to the age of romance and adventure and freedom is the WG. Blackbeard is an evil bastard but he's not against freedom or following your dreams, quite the opposite in fact. So he can't really encapsulate the ideals that are so against what Luffy stands for. The WG is a much better fit for that.

This is the main reason why I think WG is the last boss. BUT, what if Luffy & the crew actually loses on Raftel or before and Blackbeard finds the One Piece first and then draws the wrong conclusions from it because he doesn't have the whole picture/hearing. Instead of Luffy he would be the one to start The War. It would make somewhat sense right? It's not like BB would just settle on the title of the strongest with just Roger's left overs from his bar tabs.
And lots of pirates would no doubt follow him against WG now that he has the title of Pirate King.

[Shadowgreed]

This post is deleted!

[andre]

@Shadowgreed:

Want to read 713 spoiler?

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

I got tears coming out... I hope this one is a real one

I think you posted in the wrong thread.

And I also don't see Akainu as the final villain. He's too small of a player compared to Blackbeard and the Gorousei, and I really doubt he knows about the full history and has less investment in it staying a secret outside of Absolute Justice. The final battle should be against the World Government if that means Luffy is rewriting whatever was erased during the blank century, as their purpose is to govern the world, and keep it from knowing about the truth. I could see Blackbeard as the antagonist before, or after all of this for different reasons.

[Monkey King]

@Thousand:

The problem with BB being the final villain is that One Piece isn't going to end with Luffy finding One Piece. It will just be the trigger of a global war against the World Government. However if that's the case, that would ultimately mean that BB failed in becoming Pirate King.

Blackbeard is a D, and his actual motive we don't even know. What you're ignoring is that the trigger thing probably isn't war against the WG. But revelations that wake lots of sleeping things, good and bad, or potentially either. Thus the chaos Whitebeard mentioned.
I highly doubt Blackbeard has the identical goal of Luffy, to just complete the Grand Line journey. If Luffy beats him there, that doesn't mean that whatever Blackbeard wants from Raftel is out of his hands. Let's say the secrets to the weapons are revealed for instance. Blackbeard could use that info to get going being part of that chaos in a very bad way. Probably what he wanted after all.

They're supposed to be polar opposites on an equal footing but that would be undermined if Luffy accomplished his dream and beat BB to the punch.

Again, you're treating the goal and Pirate King title as a race to land on Raftel. Rather than what awaits on Raftel and what is done with it.

I can't see Luffy just getting to Raftel and getting One Piece with BB being in the way so Luffy has to beat him to get One Piece. However if Luffy beats him, it'll just undermine him as a villain both thematically and story-wise. You can't have a final boss villain be someone the hero has already beat once.

Who said Luffy has to beat him to get to Raftel?

I think more likely, it's going to be a situation where the final two D's fight for the right of One Piece and everything it entails, the right to rule the era as it were. The age of dark ruthlessness of BB vs the age of adventure of Luffy. Luffy will win obviously and earn the right to rule the era.

Wait so you think a fight of D's over something most likely involving their heritage in ancient powers and traditions is a less big deal than…

The final villain though has to be someone from the WG probably

A bunch of guys who have spent 800 years sitting in panic on top of that jar of ancient powers.

Akainu.

And the meat-head fascist who unquestionably does their bidding.

THAT sounds bigger to you than Blackbeard??

Ultimately the ultimate villain to the age of romance and adventure and freedom is the WG.

Yeah, it's been more than confirmed by now that everything about the ancient history is not just a bunch of puppies and rainbows.
Again, see Rayleigh's cryptic way of talking about.
The contents of the history are much more complex than that. Even just knowing about the weapons should tell us that. Or the reaction of the Gorusei to their conversation with Clover on the phone.

Blackbeard is an evil bastard but he's not against freedom or following your dreams, quite the opposite in fact. So he can't really encapsulate the ideals that are so against what Luffy stands for. The WG is a much better fit for that.

Blackbeard is worse, he's the Id of Luffy, he's a perversion of what Luffy supports. You're crazy if you don't think that's ten times the challenge and thematic wammo than the stodgy assholes trying to cork things up.

[Drake_Cloud]

@Monkey:

That's kind of what I'm thinking yeah. When you set up a character as basically "EVIL VERSION OF HERO" they're usually the biggest bad no?

Narratively it makes more sense to go Beat BB at/near Raftel and become Pirate King–>Start the great war against the WG than the other way around, even though Blackbeard is a more fitting final villain. Beating Blackbeard should pretty much make Luffy the strongest character in the world (as I'm assumign all the other Yonkou woudl have been dealt with by then), unless Kong has the Heart attack fruit or something like that. Before we learned Aokiji quit, I was actually betting on it being Luffy versus all 3 original admirals at once (With Zoro fighting Mihawk and Sanji fighting the replacement admiral), as it seemed like the only place to go from there.

Although, knowing Oda, he'll probably find a way to do both at the same time, or have Luffy fight Roger's ghost or something even more awesome.

[Johnny B. Decent]

@Monkey:

I honestly think the Gorusei are technically World Nobles (that don't partake in any of the elitist nonsense).
If it's true that they've been around since the Void Century that would explain how they control a lot of the power structures and balance demands of the Nobles with the Marines and other government offices.

Now, knowing how revered the Tenryubito are, and their past as Kings, if I had to guess, I think in the earlier years of the World Government, perhaps it was ruled by a council of sorts with the members being the heads of the elite houses, but seeing how indolent and hedonistic they have become, and judging from their builds, some having battle scars and wearing simple business suits, besides that one Gandhi-lookalike, I'm thinking the position of the Gorusei are more like Hand of the King-esque prime ministers who rule in the place of the Tenryubito nowadays and are made up of former marines (Vice-Admirals or full Admirals?) who had a ironclad loyalty to the concept of Absolute Justice and the WG as a whole.

But, that's just a guess, though.

[Fleet-Admiral Coby 0]

95% sure, it's Blackbeard. Luffy has grudge with Akainu, but he's goal is One Piece, just like Blackbeard's.
In the end, Pirates will fight for The Greatest treasure of world, while Revolutionary Army and WG will fight face to face for the World society.
Some Marines, like Coby could team up with Dragon, when they realise true face of WG and will create better Marine's after Akainu and WG is defeated. Dragon will lead new World Goverment, witch brings back old Kingdom.

[DARK_RITUAL]

@Fleet-Admiral:

95% sure, it's Blackbeard. Luffy has grudge with Akainu, but he's goal is One Piece, just like Blackbeard's.
In the end, Pirates will fight for The Greatest treasure of world, while Revolutionary Army and WG will fight face to face for the World society.
Some Marines, like Coby could team up with Dragon, when they realise true face of WG and will create better Marine's after Akainu and WG is defeated. Dragon will lead new World Goverment, witch brings back old Kingdom.

You seem to have forgotten what WB said "When one piece is found, war will engulf the world". Luffy will defeat BB n finds one piece, then after learning the truth he will challenge the WG.

[valiantt]

For folks suggesting Akainu as the final villain…don't forget that it was BB that put Ace in the situation in the first place. So yeah...more points for BB. Not to mention he is being set up as the most powerful character in the OP verse with 2 overpowered fruits in his possession and a crew that HAPPENS to match Luffy's (not to mention a possibility of finding more shrug). If he doesn't scream "FINAL VILLAIN" then I don't know who does (however that doesn't mean that the story won't end on an all out war either).

[The Laughing Man]

The Gorosei scream final villain, for the simple fact that One Piece is a shonen and old…people are usually always a main if not THE main antagonist(s) in shonen. They're also the rulers of the world, and the supposed "enemy faction" (enemy to the main protagonists).

[Monkey King]

@Drake_Cloud:

Narratively it makes more sense to go Beat BB at/near Raftel and become Pirate King–>Start the great war against the WG than the other way around, even though Blackbeard is a more fitting final villain.

Except as a D Blackbeard is clearly involved in the Ancient History narrative. I don't know why every post is convinced the war with the WG is paramount, if there is even to be such a thing.

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@S.C.:

Now, knowing how revered the Tenryubito are, and their past as Kings, if I had to guess, I think in the earlier years of the World Government, perhaps it was ruled by a council of sorts with the members being the heads of the elite houses, but seeing how indolent and hedonistic they have become, and judging from their builds, some having battle scars and wearing simple business suits, besides that one Gandhi-lookalike, I'm thinking the position of the Gorusei are more like Hand of the King-esque prime ministers who rule in the place of the Tenryubito nowadays and are made up of former marines (Vice-Admirals or full Admirals?) who had a ironclad loyalty to the concept of Absolute Justice and the WG as a whole.

But, that's just a guess, though.

I think the Gorusei have been around since 800 years ago is what I think lol. That same five Gorusei.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@The:

The Gorosei scream final villain, for the simple fact that One Piece is a shonen and old…people are usually always a main if not THE main antagonist(s) in shonen. They're also the rulers of the world, and the supposed "enemy faction" (enemy to the main protagonists).

What in the hell are you talking about lolll.

[The Laughing Man]

@Monkey:

I think the Gorusei have been around since 800 years ago is what I think lol. That same five Gorusei.

[Aaronrules380]

@The:

The Gorosei scream final villain, for the simple fact that One Piece is a shonen and old…people are usually always a main if not THE main antagonist(s) in shonen. They're also the rulers of the world, and the supposed "enemy faction" (enemy to the main protagonists).

Uh, what? So basically your logic is that One Piece has to go a certain way because that's the usual cliché? Has it occurred to you that One Piece doesn't always follow the usual shonen clichés? By your logic, Roger should have been Luffy's father rather than someone like Shanks. Nothing about the Gorosei screams final villain either. Not compared to the crazy monster who has two insanely powerful DFs, a feat which normally shouldn't be possible. Plus the number of Gorosei is too low compared to the SHs anyways and we've seen no indication that any single one of them is above the others

[The Laughing Man]

@Monkey:

What in the hell are you talking about lolll.

Man… Old/Immortal people are always main villains in shonen. It's almost like a staple of the genre. :ninja:

Similar to tournament arcs, timeskips, fanservice (well...to be fair, this is a manga/anime staple), 2 war arcs (min), and a dumb/loud/sometimes annoying main character.

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@Aaronrules380:

Uh, what? So basically your logic is that One Piece has to go a certain way because that's the usual cliché? Has it occurred to you that One Piece doesn't always follow the usual shonen clichés? By your logic, Roger should have been Luffy's father rather than someone like Shanks. Nothing about the Gorosei screams final villain either. Not compared to the crazy monster who has two insanely powerful DFs, a feat which normally shouldn't be possible. Plus the number of Gorosei is too low compared to the SHs anyways and we've seen no indication that any single one of them is above the others

It's followed a lot of shonen cliche up to this point. So…yeah. I do expect it will follow similar trends seen in almost all shonen.

I don't see why people (like you) think Oda is some god-like being who's work has no cliches and won't have any cliches, especially when it already has quite a few, all over the place.

[Monkey King]

@The:

http://ts2.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.5002108925119533&pid=15.1

http://eatmanga.com/Manga-Scan/One-Piece/One-Piece-595/page-8

[Aaronrules380]

@The:

Man… Old/Immortal people are always the main villains in shonen. It's almost like a staple of the genre.

Similar to tournament arcs, timeskips, fanservice, and a dumb/loud/sometimes annoying main character.

--- Update From New Post Merge ---

It's followed a lot of shonen cliche up to this point. So...yeah. I do expect it will follow similar trends seen in almost all shonen.

I don't see why people (like you) think Oda is some god-like being who's work has no cliches and won't have any cliches.

I never said Oda never uses CLiches. Just to suggest that he must ALWAYS follow the cliches (and follow them to the letter at that) is utterly ridiculous, as I already pointed out. And as has been pointed out, all the buildup suggests otherwise. Fanservice isn't really a cliché. Tournament arcs are kind of sort of cliches, but One Piece has already subverted the traditional Shonen tournament a bit by having only one main character enter (Not to mention that there's a decent chance the tournament won't run to completion anyways). Most of the cliches One Piece follows are due to Oda's inspiration from Dragonball, but Dragonball's final villain was Buu, who was technically ancient but didn't look like an old guy and fits more into the powerful god being villain type. Plus DB could have ended at several points, including against Cell who was super young

[Monkey King]

@The:

Man… Old/Immortal people are always main villains in shonen. It's almost like a staple of the genre. :ninja:

Similar to tournament arcs, timeskips, fanservice (well...to be fair, this is a manga/anime staple), 2 war arcs (min), and a dumb/loud/sometimes annoying main character.

--- Update From New Post Merge ---

It's followed a lot of shonen cliche up to this point. So...yeah. I do expect it will follow similar trends seen in almost all shonen.

I don't see why people (like you) think Oda is some god-like being who's work has no cliches and won't have any cliches, especially when it already has quite a few, all over the place.

Dragonball, YuYu Hakusho, Hunter X Hunter, Bleach, Naruto, ONE PIECE, Rurouni Kenshin, Shaman King….

Just a few uh, NOTABLE shonen over the years who do not have old men as main villains. Some not even for major arcs ever.

Again, what the fuck are you talking about?

[The Laughing Man]

@Monkey:

http://eatmanga.com/Manga-Scan/One-Piece/One-Piece-595/page-8

I do have to agree with you here. I find it much more plausible than the stupid "Akainu is her father" theory.

[Aaronrules380]

@Monkey:

Dragonball, YuYu Hakusho, Hunter X Hunter, Bleach, Naruto, ONE PIECE, Rurouni Kenshin, Shaman King….

Just a few uh, NOTABLE shonen over the years who do not have old men as main villains. Some not even for major arcs ever.

Again, what the fuck are you talking about?

I guess one could argue that Naruto's main villain Madara was really old before he died and became a zombie. Still doesn't LOOK like an old man right now though

[brennen.exe]

Keepin' 'em young.

[The Laughing Man]

@Monkey:

Dragonball, YuYu Hakusho, Hunter X Hunter, Bleach, Naruto, ONE PIECE, Rurouni Kenshin, Shaman King….

Just a few uh, NOTABLE shonen over the years who do not have old men as main villains. Some not even for major arcs ever.

Again, what the fuck are you talking about?

Hence the "Old/IMMORTAL" part. You have people in manga/anime, like the Demon King/Lord(?)–man...I need to go back to YuYu Hakusho again, forget a bit--and Buu from Dragonball who are like...3,000+ years old but who appear young due to "immortality magic".

Bleach has Juha Bach (who is old...and weird). Naruto has Madara (and whatever the heck he is), Boss Midora will probably be the main villain of Toriko and he's old too etc.

Also, like Bleach and Naruto (who have old/immortal important/main antagonists), One Piece and Hunter x Hunter aren't over yet. They are still on-going.

[joekido the Second]

And I was told how One Piece aviod most typical shonen cliches. How wrong I was

[The Laughing Man]

The only thing One Piece really avoids is the standard…manga/anime animation style. In fact, that's a reason some people are actually turned off by the series if you can believe that.

They think the animation is "ignorant" (whatever that means, since it doesn't make much sense).

[valiantt]

@joekido:

And I was told how One Piece aviod most typical shonen cliches. How wrong I was

Yes you were…yes you were. OP is certainly a shonen story with its fair share of cliches (Luffy is a fricken walking shonen cliche as well).

Seriously, who told you otherwise <_

[Drake_Cloud]

@Monkey:

Except as a D Blackbeard is clearly involved in the Ancient History narrative. I don't know why every post is convinced the war with the WG is paramount, if there is even to be such a thing.

Well, Whitebeard's death speech suggested there was going to be a major clash between someone and the world, which heavily implies that the WG will have a hand in the finale. I'm not sure about the precise translation/intention of that specific part though.

Maybe we'll see another unintentional teamup like how in Impel down BB and Luffy both inadvertently helped each other achieve their goals. If One Piece on Raftel is information or history that would lead them both there, Luffy vs BB in the charred remains of Marejois would make for a suitably epic finale.

[Monkey King]

@The:

Hence the "Old/IMMORTAL" part. You have people in manga/anime, like the Demon King/Lord(?)–man...

Piccolo was old and then he wasn't, and then he died, and the Piccolo we all know and love became the villain and he was like literally three years old technically.
Demon King Piccolo was like one villain too. Such wizened old crones as Commander Red, Vegeta, Freeza, Cell and Boo surely bolster your theory wait not they don't.

I need to go back to YuYu Hakusho again, forget a bit-

Sensui was the last big bad and he was like in his 20's.

-and Buu from Dragonball who are like…3,000+ years old but who appear young due to "immortality magic".

Boo is a magic monster. Like a cartoon Lovecraft creature. Why are you talking about it like it's an old man because of years lol.

Bleach has Juha Bach (who is old…and weird).

I stopped "reading" Bleach long before whoever this middle aged looking man is.
Mostly it was Aizen Aizen Aizen Aizen who was like 30 in human years. Or ghost years or whatever.

Naruto has Madara (and whatever the heck he is) etc.

Madara is literally a dead body.

Kenshin's two main antagonists were both the same age range as Kenshin (like 30). Enishi was even younger by a bunch actually.

Also, like Bleach and Naruto (who have old/immortal important/main antagonists), One Piece and Hunter x Hunter aren't over yet. They are still on-going.

You've completely failed at establishing a pattern btw. I mean mostly because like many people who don't really know what they're doing with storytelling, you're pointing out tropes without thinking about the fact that they generally show up for a reason and with rhyme lol.
Why the hell would Oda do this extremely shaky non-pattern you've pointed out.
What's not helping your case is that Blackbeard does seem really strange himself.

[Kazhar]

@joekido:

And I was told how One Piece aviod most typical shonen cliches. How wrong I was

One Piece actually plays most of the common shonen tropes straight. It's like a love letter to the shonen cliches in fact.

[Monkey King]

@The:

The only thing One Piece really avoids is the standard…manga/anime animation style. In fact, that's a reason some people are actually turned off by the series if you can believe that.

They think the animation is "ignorant" (whatever that means, since it doesn't make much sense).

The ONLY THING? lol

We aren't lead around by an everyman hero who sees as we do. Luffy is filled with secrets we're clueless about, and is actually a crazy mysterious lead character. Still is matter of fact.
In any cliche shonen his father would either be Roger or more likely Shanks. Instead it's a gruff weirdo revolutionary leader.

[valiantt]

@Kazhar:

One Piece actually plays most of the common shonen tropes straight. It's like a love letter to the shonen cliches in fact.

The thing is that it avoids using the really stupid cliches (see Fairy Tail as a reference) and utilizes certain ones appropriately without it being too obnoxious (or even in subtle ways at times). Though the one that will always get me is the whole "entitled inheritance" where the main character is related to some legendary figure (Luffy and Dragon as well as Ace and Rodger) which kinda is annoying, but oh well. I swear almost every shonen title utilizes this cliche…oh well.

[Kazhar]

@Monkey:

The ONLY THING? lol

We aren't lead around by an everyman hero who sees as we do. Luffy is filled with secrets we're clueless about, and is actually a crazy mysterious lead character. Still is matter of fact.
In any cliche shonen his father would either be Roger or more likely Shanks. Instead it's a gruff weirdo revolutionary leader.

I wouldn't call that avoiding the standard. Luffy at his core is still the typical shonen hero even if Oda added his own spin to make him unique and natural. It's the same thing for Dragon. His father is still a famous and talented character like most if not all of the shonen I've ever read, but he's neither the main character's role model nor a main villain.

[The Laughing Man]

@Monkey:

Piccolo was old and then he wasn't, and then he died, and the Piccolo we all know and love became the villain and he was like literally three years old technically.
Demon King Piccolo was like one villain too. Such wizened old crones as Commander Red, Vegeta, Freeza, Cell and Boo surely bolster your theory wait not they don't.

Sensui was the last big bad and he was like in his 20's.

Boo is a magic monster. Like a cartoon Lovecraft creature. Why are you talking about it like it's an old man because of years lol.

I stopped "reading" Bleach long before whoever this middle aged looking man is.
Mostly it was Aizen Aizen Aizen Aizen who was like 30 in human years. Or ghost years or whatever.

Madara is literally a dead body.

Kenshin's two main antagonists were both the same age range as Kenshin (like 30). Enishi was even younger by a bunch actually.

You've completely failed at establishing a pattern btw. I mean mostly because like many people who don't really know what they're doing with storytelling, you're pointing out tropes without thinking about the fact that they generally show up for a reason and with rhyme lol.
Why the hell would Oda do this extremely shaky non-pattern you've pointed out.
What's not helping your case is that Blackbeard does seem really strange himself.

When I say weird I really mean "an immortal being who has eternal good + badass looks somehow", i.e. Madara and Juha Bach.

And I pointed out A LOT of examples (but I can't comment on Shaman King or Kenshin, because I've never seen them).

–Boss Midora (Toriko)
--Buu (Dragonball)
--The Millennium Earl (D. Gray-man)
--Madara (Naruto)
--Juha Bach (Bleach)
--"Father" (Fullmetal Alchemist)
--Asura (Soul Eater)
--Hades (Saint Seiya) etc.

Like I said: Almost always, the main antagonists in mangas/animes in the shonen genre are old and/or immortal/weird beings. One Piece and Hunter x Hunter aren't close to finished yet, so we can't really make any assumptions I guess.

But, if they follow the pretty typical pattern of shonen battle mangas before them, it's not unlikely in the least for the main antagonists of these series to be old guys and/or immortal/weird people.

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@Monkey:

The ONLY THING? lol

We aren't lead around by an everyman hero who sees as we do. Luffy is filled with secrets we're clueless about, and is actually a crazy mysterious lead character. Still is matter of fact.
In any cliche shonen his father would either be Roger or more likely Shanks. Instead it's a gruff weirdo revolutionary leader.

What…?

Luffy is still dumb/loud/somewhat annoying dude like almost every other main character in shonen battle manga/anime seen in the last...like...15 to 20 years. The only thing he's missing is a corny catch phrase like "Believe it!" and "I'm fired up!"; wait...he kinda does have one: "I'm gonna be King of the Pirates!".

[joekido the Second]

Blech and Naruto are not close to finish ethier so we can't make any assumptions yet

[Slack]

First off, it really surprises me how many people think that Luffy is actually going to pay any attention to the history that may be found out in Raftel and then declare war on the WG. I won't deny, it seems almost certain that there will be some kind of war with the WG. However, Luffy is a selfish, impulsive character who fights people who do something he can see the direct effect of i.e. causing suffering to his friends/people he has taken a recent liking too. Or directly obstructing his freedom to get something he wants, a la weird new crewmate or copious amounts of meat.

As a character he shows little evidence of judgement for so called crimes that people may have done in the past and isn't the type of person who deliberately performs heroic deeds or really understands/cares about the workings of world politics. Seems much more likely to me that a conflict would be sparked by tensions between the revolutionaries and the WG and then Luffy will be pulled into it for some stupid reason that pisses him off. Also, as I still have a sneaky suspicion that Dragon could end up having views that Luffy doesn't like, it could be a 3 way battle between WG, pirates and revolutionaries.

Or maybe the WG will be stupid and directly confront a massive pirate alliance with some of the ancient weapons. After Luffy is declared PK… ( Seems a little too black and white for One Piece though)

Also of note to me, is the slight contradiction between the Gorosei and the Celestial Dragons.

The Gorosei remind me of Plato's Republic's ideal of philosopher kings; a group of wise leaders who would remain incorruptible and only serve the greater good. I share Monkey King's opinion that they are covering up something they see as terrible for the stability of the world, so they would feel that all of their actions are justified (typical politics of fear stuff). So I find it weird that they would keep around the celestial dragons who seem to just cause the WG a load of hassle. If the Gorosei truly hold the power what is stopping them from getting rid of the monarchy who must be seriously draining on public opinion and taxes. Just seems strange to me to have a republic serving a monarchy.

Does this suggest a more mysterious plot revolving around the bloodline of the original 20 kingdoms?
And if not...
What power do the Celestials have to command such loyalty from the Gorosei?
Could the Gorosei themselves actually be being lied too and could they end up as allies to the Strawhats cause for freedom?

[The Laughing Man]

@joekido:

Blech and Naruto are not close to finish ethier so we can't make any assumptions yet

What…?

Naruto is done after it's current arc, and it's pretty obvious that Madara would be the main antagonist of the series even before this arc.

As for Bleach... It's getting pretty close, and Juha is almost a shoe-in for main antagonist unless Kubo asspulls Aizen back into the mix somehow/someway (hopefully not).

[desa]

There's a simple reason I see Blackbeard going out before the WG. The WG stuff will must likely bring to a second big war. And there's noway I can see a confrontation between crew happens after a war between marines against Luffy and his allies. Plus I really believe that Blackbeard will confront Luffy for the title of pirate king while I see the second paramount arc as a last effort to shut the mouth of robin who will want to reveal the true to honor the scholars. Either Luffy or Robin will be an the execution stand.

[valiantt]

@Kazhar:

I wouldn't call that avoiding the standard. Luffy at his core is still the typical shonen hero even if Oda added his own spin to make him unique and natural. It's the same thing for Dragon. His father is still a famous and talented character like most if not all of the shonen I've ever read, but he's neither the main character's role model nor a main villain.

The thing that deviates from normal shounen cliche with the whole "entitled inheritance" for being someone popular's kid is that it doesn't really MOLD Luffy's behavior.

Most other shounen titles with this "entitled inheritance" lets their parents (or ancestors) mold their character and behavior (i.e. Look at Bleach for a primary terrible example). Appears to be something Luffy shrugs off (and I assume doesn't seem to mold his character much either). Being related to Dragon didn't give him any superpowers, social status, expectations from others (though that'll probably change soon), and so on. ON THE OTHER HAND, Ace is a total shounen cliche since being related to Rodger is what molded his character as well as folks treating him differently in result of it.

[GeeBi]

I agree that BB will be the last villain ,BB's level is clearly made to be beyond even yonkou,I guess
Well,BB can become yonkou only by using his yami-yami
And then he is pursuing strong DF (Which means he can become even greater)
Not to forget that he has gura-gura,the power that can best the admirals (I bet BB will get better control of it than 2 years ago)
So he's like the ultimate enemy that has all the powers ,and Luffy will somehow keep defeating him with just regular DF

But I disagree with BB and luffy hating each other
Hate,is like when Ace wants to kill BB
Luffy never hates BB (when ace dies,he didn't say : I will kill BB!) he's just angry with himself ,and I doon't see any signs he hates BB after timeskip (hell,he even ignores when jinbe talks about BB)
And BB never hates Luffy (Even I think BB likes luffy a little ,by seeing luffy who always believes in dreams) of course ,power is still his priority (the reason why he wants to capture luffy)

[TLC]

@Monkey:

Blackbeard is a D, and his actual motive we don't even know. What you're ignoring is that the trigger thing probably isn't war against the WG. But revelations that wake lots of sleeping things, good and bad, or potentially either. Thus the chaos Whitebeard mentioned.
I highly doubt Blackbeard has the identical goal of Luffy, to just complete the Grand Line journey. If Luffy beats him there, that doesn't mean that whatever Blackbeard wants from Raftel is out of his hands. Let's say the secrets to the weapons are revealed for instance. Blackbeard could use that info to get going being part of that chaos in a very bad way. Probably what he wanted after all.

Again, you're treating the goal and Pirate King title as a race to land on Raftel. Rather than what awaits on Raftel and what is done with it.

Who said Luffy has to beat him to get to Raftel?

Wait so you think a fight of D's over something most likely involving their heritage in ancient powers and traditions is a less big deal than…

A bunch of guys who have spent 800 years sitting in panic on top of that jar of ancient powers.

And the meat-head fascist who unquestionably does their bidding.

THAT sounds bigger to you than Blackbeard??

Yeah, it's been more than confirmed by now that everything about the ancient history is not just a bunch of puppies and rainbows.
Again, see Rayleigh's cryptic way of talking about.
The contents of the history are much more complex than that. Even just knowing about the weapons should tell us that. Or the reaction of the Gorusei to their conversation with Clover on the phone.

Blackbeard is worse, he's the Id of Luffy, he's a perversion of what Luffy supports. You're crazy if you don't think that's ten times the challenge and thematic wammo than the stodgy assholes trying to cork things up.

I think you're underestimating what One Piece and the WG represent. OP is supposed to be this huge priveleged title given only to the best of the best, to the D that has earned the right to rule this era. Once Luffy gets it, he'll be pretty much regarded as the strongest pirate that has ever lived. I just don't see him having that level of prestige and power with Blackbeard still roaming around. It would just undermine him as a villain if he whose desire is to rule the era doesn't have the title to go with it. Plus he flat out stated he wanted to be Pirate King so there's that.

And for good reason, he clearly sees One Piece as the same thing as Luffy does, the right to control the freedom of the seas but whereas Luffy just wants the title to be the freest in the sea and for others to be free, Blackbeard wants it to control the freedom of others. They're polar opposites in how they go about things but they have the same desires and ambitions, that's why I see Blackbeard as the perfect villain for the race for One Piece but not for the end of the series.

The series has always been about Marines vs Pirates from the get go, it has always been about following your dreams, about freedom, the WG is the perfect antagonist for that. I think Akainu, you know the guy who killed Luffy's brother (BB may have sent him to his death but Akainu was the one who actually delivered the final blow) would be a good final villain because his views of extreme justice go so against everything Luffy stands for but it could also be some super powerful higher up we've yet to see (but I doubt that seeing as it looks pretty clear that the Gorosei are the top of the top and they don't look like fighters).

[Monkey King]

@Thousand:

I think you're underestimating what One Piece and the WG represent. OP is supposed to be this huge priveleged title given only to the best of the best,

I don't think you know what the word "privilege" means. Or you really think this whole series is a game show or Highlander or something.
I don't think Luffy or Blackbeard give a damn about prestige.

to the D that has earned the right to rule this era.

If Luffy sets foot on Raftel first, finds the One Piece first, do you seriously think Blackbeard will give a damn about imagined "rights" that have never been mentioned before ever?

Once Luffy gets it, he'll be pretty much regarded as the strongest pirate that has ever lived.

Again, neither Luffy nor Blackbeard gives a damn about "regarded".

I just don't see him having that level of prestige and power with Blackbeard still roaming around. It would just undermine him as a villain if he whose desire is to rule the era doesn't have the title to go with it. Plus he flat out stated he wanted to be Pirate King so there's that.

Your entire argument is focusing on titles, and prestige, and basically almost like a paparazzi perspective on the end of the Grand Line lol.

And for good reason, he clearly sees One Piece as the same thing as Luffy does, the right to control the freedom of the seas

There's been zero mention of his motive beyond wanting to also be Pirate King.

but whereas Luffy just wants the title to be the freest in the sea and for others to be free, Blackbeard wants it to control the freedom of others.

Luffy's never mentioned the freedom of others, and Blackbeard's mentioned none of that whatsoever at all.

The series has always been about Marines vs Pirates from the get go,

lollllll what the fuck are you talking about.
The Marines weren't even hardly a serious threat until Smoker showed up. They were a bunch of incompetent jerks who were always flattened as soon as the fight started. Morgan…Fullbody...Nezumi...even that Purinpurin guy Arlong's dudes beat up.
And no the first villain was a friggin mountain bandit, followed by a pirate (Alvida). All the major threats of the introduction parts of the story, in East Blue, were other pirates. Buggy, Kuro, Krieg, Arlong.
Hell you want to talk about Marine depiction from the get go?
The Morgan story practically showed the Marines as great guys, except for some bad apples, in this case a crazy dude and his son. All the Marines in that unit were friendly good people who just wanted to get their job done for the village. Let Luffy go. And oh yeah, Coby, did you forget him? Yes truly, Coby, our literal first taste of Marines, truly depicts them as the ultimate adversary. Rather than a confused force divide from within about what it's really fighting for or who the real enemy is.

it has always been about following your dreams, about freedom, the WG is the perfect antagonist for that.

Or you know, the evil freedom character.

I think Akainu,

Everyone focusing on Akainu can't be thinking straight. The man is a jackbooted thug blown up in proportion. He's not goddamned complex enough to remotely be the final villain. The only reason people keep saying is this is because he killed Ace. Ace isn't the center of the series and never was, avenging Ace damn well isn't going to be the final conflict.
I mean shit, if you're harping on about the WG as final villain at least go with the Gorusei, and not their frothing attack dog.

[Cyan D. Funk]

The only reason Sakazuki could be considered "final villain" material is because Luffy has a personal vendetta against him

But let's not pretend that the evil Luffy who handed Ace to Sakazuki in the first place and more or less completely fucked the world up isn't going to be Luffy's final challenge

[Don Quichotte De Flamingo]

Sakazuki will be one major villain of the series, seeing that he stands or the absolute justice in person.
Add to that Aces death and his status as fleet admiral and you know that Luffy will have a confrontation with him. Non the less the fact remains that still above him the gorousei are the actual guys who pull the strings and knowing that the ancient kingdom vs WG conflict will be revealed by the end of the story, its fair to assume that not the leader of a force controlled by the WG(marine) will be the final villain.
Granted that also Lucci was Lufys opponent during Enies Lobby and actually Spandam was the "mastermind" in the shadows, but still Akainu follows his true belief what justice should look like, while Lucci just went with the flow so that he could murder without being harmed.
So Akainu doesn`t represent the whole ideology of the WG, or else he might be better material for a final villain.

[Mortein]

This post is deleted!

[Johnny B. Decent]

@Monkey:

There's been zero mention of his motive beyond wanting to also be Pirate King.

I was checking both the spoiler thread for Chapter 440 and from the chapter itself via here and in both places, he asks Ace to join him so they can "conquer the world" and he has a plan to do it. Plus, his big speech in Chapter 577 seems to be telling everyone this world belongs to him. Granted, he does talk pretty bombastically, but he might indeed want to usurp the WG and conquer the world. Wouldn't be entirely unlikely.

[valiantt]

Ugh, how can anyone be so blind to consider Sakazuki as "THE" Final villain? He makes sense thematically if you want to go with the whole freedom vs. despotic control thing, but BB makes for a better Final Villain in a narrative sense. The only things that Sakazuki has going for him as the final villain would be
1.Opponent against the notion of "freedom"
2.Killed Ace
3.Head honcho of the marines
4.Powerful character with an army behind him
(that's it)

This would be fine and dandy if this were a smaller serie where the lines were clearly divided between pirates vs marines (and each respective group were COMPLETELY on each other's sides rather than having factions like the various justice types or pirate crews). However, the narrative is not this simple. Obviously Sakazuki will be an end story character, but he certainly does NOT have the making of a GOOD final villain (he'd be a decent, functional final villain. But not a satisfying one after all this build up). BB has the makings of a more promising final villain.

1.Antithesis to the protagonist (physically with his crew as well as thematically)
2.Steadily built up since his introduction chapter (which happened to be in Jaya…a thematically SIGNIFICANT part of the story)
3.Has a well developed history (while Sakazuki has...Ohara and that's it).
4.Was indirectly responsible for killing Ace
5.Has a multilayered personality (rather than one note Sakazuki)
6.STILL has a sense of intrigue and mystery behind him (objective, powers, etc...)
7.Is somewhat sympathetic and likeable to an extent (while Sakazuki is basically a dick)
8. MAY be the most powerful entity in the OP verse that we know of (wielding darkness and earthquake powers at the same time? Yeeaaah he's powerful alright.)

Yeah, Sakazuki would be OKAY for a weaker story's final villain (i.e See Bleach). But after BB's buildup, I would be very disappointed if Oda was not planning to set him up as the final adversary before a big war or something.

[Nycprodigy]

I'm not so concerned with the Final Villain as much as I am with the Final Battle. I can imagine, the Revolutionaries are fighnting the WG, and some of the more prominent Marine forces are trying to apprehend the SH's while BB's crew nears One Piece and the Rio Poneglyph. If Shanks isn't dead by this point then he will somehow be involved and probably try to stop Black Beard and reserve the treasure for Luffy…which would then end in his death and give Luffy more drive to defeat BlackBeard.

Even better is that I'm positive that all of the allies that the SH's have made over their journey will have a hand in the battle or be supportive spectators of some sort. Luffy's struggle to reach One Piece would not only expose the WG, but show his tenacity, the strength of his crew, and eliminate a lot of prejudice towards pirates and the belief that they are all evil. Somewhere during this battle, Nami will find some giant Marine vault, filled with money and will find a way to have the whole thing carried away.

[Qaaz]

The poll is closed so i can't vote…

So final "Villain" (personal i think "final fight" suits better unless you really mean the "bad guy") will be Shanks after the battle Luffy will be willing to give back the hat but Shanks would say that he owned legally or something like that... after that time skip and Luffy will be give the hat to the next generation.......

--- Update From New Post Merge ---

More generally if indeed you mean "Villain" then I think it will be Blackbeard unless if Akainu considered "Villain"...

Anw the final 3 for me will be Blackbeard, Akainu, Shanks

(Not counting the Gorusei, Coby or Smoker)

[vanilliaspudinglover]

the villain obviously blackbeard… in the past 700 chapters he did the biggest things! let see: he was just an avarage man with massive spirit and huge phisical strength and now he has the two most powerfull devil fruit and he is a yonkou.

akainu is also a volunteer for the villain because he become fleet admiral and luffy hates him the most because of ace.

maybe these two.i don't know why but buggy the luckiest man in op so he is also a possibility but in the far future...

i think dragon and shanks won't be villain becouse they don't van to kill luffy... but who knows this is op everything can happen...

[RKTGX95]

@vanilliaspudinglover:

the villain obviously blackbeard… in the past 700 chapters he did the biggest things! let see: he was just an avarage man with massive spirit and huge phisical strength and now he has the two most powerfull devil fruit and he is a yonkou.

akainu is also a volunteer for the villain because he become fleet admiral and luffy hates him the most because of ace.

maybe these two.i don't know why but buggy the luckiest man in op so he is also a possibility but in the far future...

i think dragon and shanks won't be villain becouse they don't van to kill luffy... but who knows this is op everything can happen...

i don't know a reason for it, but i feel Buggy is possibly Ussop's future opponent for 70% certainty. it just feels as the matchup but who knows.
Also, maybe the last villain might be someone slightly unexpected that had a lot of buildup or will have. Don't have any basis for this claim but my Oda-sense is tingling in this one slightly more than the obvious BB claim. But it is obvious that BB is way more likely to be a final villain than sakazuki. BB is almost equal to luffy in ambitions and sometimes personality traits but he just goes in a different direction than luffy. (like a fork in the road that both roads lead to the same place) Plus the man can eat lots of pies, you can't beat that

[Monkey King]

@RKTGX95:

i don't know a reason for it, but i feel Buggy is possibly Ussop's future opponent for 70% certainty. it just feels as the matchup but who knows.
Also, maybe the last villain might be someone slightly unexpected that had a lot of buildup or will have. Don't have any basis for this claim but my Oda-sense is tingling in this one slightly more than the obvious BB claim. But it is obvious that BB is way more likely to be a final villain than sakazuki. BB is almost equal to luffy in ambitions and sometimes personality traits but he just goes in a different direction than luffy. (like a fork in the road that both roads lead to the same place) Plus the man can eat lots of pies, you can't beat that

Really? Buggy is Usopp's final foe?
If only Blackbeard, the likely final villain, had some sort of natural adversary for Usopp around…

[RKTGX95]

@Monkey:

Really? Buggy is Usopp's final foe?
If only Blackbeard, the likely final villain, had some sort of natural adversary for Usopp around…

Obviously Van Augur was the perfect final foe for Ussop since Jaya and still remains strong in that position now (and i love his design)

!

But maybe it's the similarity of Buggy to Ussop (i.e. Ussop to the ST is like Buggy to Roger's) that give me a slight feeling that maybe they might have a skirmish or something.